FT Support Q

[Seifer-HUcast]

I played PSO DC and GC alot as a FOmarl, always as support (this is a really old user name). Recently started on PSU, im now a lvl 54 FT.

Anyway I got there by nuking through HSM to 40, then supporting through TD to 50, when 1up started.

Basically i dont know if just spamming zalure+jellen, resta and my cards is pulling my weight in a 4man group (or any group), even though no ones complained and i find it more fun.

Ive never been in a closed group and never really seen any other FT's since i started playing so had no one to ask.

Should i forget supporting and just nuke?

[Remedy]

You will inevitably be told yes. I tell you to go with what you enjoy. If supporting makes you happy, then do it.

[Randomness]

Support will always find a welcome, but once you've buffed and debuffed, theres nothing left but to nuke =D. And small stuff, like badira, might be faster nuking.

Of course, the only support I do is the healing kind, so...


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Randomness on 2007-10-23 17:35 ]</font>

[PALRAPPYS]

Supporter? On PSOW? This is new...

I thought Ryno and I were the only ones, lol. O_o

Well, I say support first, nuke next. That way your support will be valued, then you can attack and do damage. And always, in my opinion, make sure your team is buffed and healed.

[Remedy]

On 2007-10-23 17:43, PALRAPPYS wrote:
I thought Ryno and I were the only ones, lol. O_oWhat, do I just not exist or something? Jesus christ, "Support First, Nuke Later" has been my damn mantra since DC V1. =o.O=;

[PALRAPPYS]

On 2007-10-23 17:54, Remedy wrote:

On 2007-10-23 17:43, PALRAPPYS wrote:
I thought Ryno and I were the only ones, lol. O_oWhat, do I just not exist or something? Jesus christ, "Support First, Nuke Later" has been my damn mantra since DC V1. =o.O=;



Er, well I play on 360 and not PC or PS2. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif Heh...

[Shou]

you are looking at the best supporter in the game right in this very thread! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif ME!!! (come AotI at least....)

But uh... even you heal all the time, buff all the time, and debuff all the time, you still have pleanty of time to fit in nukes.

Burning Rangers ARE Support. I cant wait to change from fT to Acrotecher and have been planning this even before the Firebreak event.

[Sgt_Shligger]

I do support on my GT, and a Resta/Reverser guy/gal is always welcome in a party, whether the heal be big or small you'll always usually be appreciated (especially among friends.) Buffs are not essential but if it's a proclivity to your nature as a Fortetecher then by all means burn your gratuitous stores of PP as much as you see fit.

[Sychosis]

On 2007-10-23 17:43, PALRAPPYS wrote:
Supporter? On PSOW? This is new...

I thought Ryno and I were the only ones, lol. O_o



I should slap you, boy.

[Seifer-HUcast]

Thanks alot for your posts, i'll try switching to Wartecher for a while since most of my techs are under level 20 already. Arcotecher sounds like the perfect place for me eventually.

Cheers =)

[JinxoOrougeOo]

i definatly appriciate a tech as long as theyre alert enough to heal good but i have noticed that techs are a hinderance in the 1up missions no offense they just are to slow

[PALRAPPYS]

On 2007-10-23 18:20, Sychosis wrote:

On 2007-10-23 17:43, PALRAPPYS wrote:
Supporter? On PSOW? This is new...

I thought Ryno and I were the only ones, lol. O_o



I should slap you, boy.



You could...

But of the times I've seen you play... I've always thought I supported more...

I could run now, but I have no idea what you will respond with.

Edit: I guess it could also be I don't pay much attention either, though.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PALRAPPYS on 2007-10-23 19:21 ]</font>

[Keiko_Seisha]

I like to support a lot too (though I don't do it much now since I don't like playing fT), but it's the main reason why I decided to go AT in AoI. So, there's nothing wrong with it.

[Raine_Loire]

Oh man, I thought this thread was to support FTs... Yaaawn...

Actually I've always classified techers in 2 ways, black mages and white mages. Personally, I walk the middle, but I lean white. Still, if you support 100% you won't level, right?

I had a guy complain he didn't want buffs though. He said he hated them... AFTER I buffed him. I felt bad but I also think he was weird.

[Remedy]

On 2007-10-23 20:48, Raine_Loire wrote:
Still, if you support 100% you won't level, right?Last I checked, debuffs tag, too. Only worry there is bosses. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Sychosis]

On 2007-10-23 19:18, PALRAPPYS wrote:

On 2007-10-23 18:20, Sychosis wrote:

On 2007-10-23 17:43, PALRAPPYS wrote:
Supporter? On PSOW? This is new...

I thought Ryno and I were the only ones, lol. O_o



I should slap you, boy.



You could...

But of the times I've seen you play... I've always thought I supported more...

I could run now, but I have no idea what you will respond with.

Edit: I guess it could also be I don't pay much attention either, though.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PALRAPPYS on 2007-10-23 19:21 ]</font>


Yes, you don't pay attention my boy. Just ask omega. I throw a hissy fit when not allowed to support the team properly XD

[omegapirate2k]

On 2007-10-23 21:13, Sychosis wrote:
Yes, you don't pay attention my boy. Just ask omega. I throw a hissy fit when not allowed to support the team properly XD


He really does.

[February]

i prefer to play support too actually

[EphekZ]

Support is more of a "challenge" than actually going and attacking the enemy. It keeps you more into the game.

[drizzle]

Support is expected from techers, and it's a good idea anyway. At the very least shifta, resta and reverser. Debuffs are pointless most of the time; but jellen and zoldeel are handy in a few areas. Zalure sucks.

Hunters and rangers are the main damage dealers in most areas, if you keep them going you'll all be better off. Support first, then damage (don't do only support either http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif).

[Raine_Loire]

On 2007-10-23 20:54, Remedy wrote:

On 2007-10-23 20:48, Raine_Loire wrote:
Still, if you support 100% you won't level, right?Last I checked, debuffs tag, too. Only worry there is bosses. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif


Debuffs tag? Wow, I didn't know that! That's pretty cool- I always worry if I'm in a fast party that I won't get my hits in if I'm running in debuffing.


On 2007-10-24 00:08, drizzle wrote:
Support is expected from techers, and it's a good idea anyway.



I know that this is the common opinion, and techers that don't support get a really bad name, but this bugs me... I mean if there is a techer who never bought any support techs at all, that's just the way they play... Unless they start yelling at the FF to spam star atomizers... But I'm the kind of person who goes out of my way not to do something when someone tells me it's "expected."

Actually, the reason I am a techer is I can't just sit there and watch people's hp go to red. But I'll buff and debuff to help out.

Seriously, most annoying party- 3 techer classes together. EVERYONE wants to be the one to buff, it's a lot of wasted pp.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Raine_Loire on 2007-10-24 05:29 ]</font>

[drizzle]

On 2007-10-24 05:23, Raine_Loire wrote:
I know that this is the common opinion, and techers that don't support get a really bad name, but this bugs me... I mean if there is a techer who never bought any support techs at all, that's just the way they play... Unless they start yelling at the FF to spam star atomizers... But I'm the kind of person who goes out of my way not to do something when someone tells me it's "expected."


Kind of like a fortefighter bringing a palette full of pistols and nothing else http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
Now I'm not one to boot people for sucking or different playstyles as long as they're nice people but if you're not going to play like you are in a team, please don't join a team, thanks http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Reipard]

I prefer support as well. I was going for my old FOmarl when I made my Guntecher, but ended up loving Guntecher anyway.

Supporting is win.

[JAFO22000]

Support is for suckas! I'm not running around the whole map healing everybody....I'd rather stand back and shoot Diga over and over and over again. THAT is what makes you a valued member of a team. I buff when I need it. I heal when I need it. If you want support, call the IT department....

[mvffin]

i've had 4 or 5 people lvl 70+ tell me that i'm one of the best techers they've played with, I keep everyone shifta/zodial'd (especially right after blast/suv), I zalure nearly everything I see, I heal when people are at less than 70% or so hp, and I still have time to whip out the daggers and shred some dudes up. But support always comes first.

A suprising number of people think i'm a good replacement for an FT, even with only 2nd tier buffs.

[SolomonGrundy]

chiming in for Sy here. I had to TRY to eat a dimate under his watch. At the time I believe we were doing Eastern Perils S runs and he level cap was either 60 or 70.

Pink Mag is also an amazing supporter.

Octagon is a good supporter. I say good because he's often pretty tired when he plays, and plays and sometimes has to be reminded to use techs - even for his OWN benefit (*coff* gifoie *coff*). fun guy to play with though.

Auralianis (spelling?): top notch supporter.

I think I played with a wartecher who was shockinly good at support. This as back when deva zashi was just released, and she has one. She kept going QUACK QUACK as a chat, and I didn't get it. lol. but damn, she was so on the ball when it came to reverser/resta.

[Reipard]

Support is for suckas! I'm not running around the whole map healing everybody....I'd rather stand back and shoot Diga over and over and over again. THAT is what makes you a valued member of a team. I buff when I need it. I heal when I need it. If you want support, call the IT department....

This kind of crap is why we needed the tech types to be split in the first place.

"Did you want to nuke? Too bad, we're shoehorning you into support whether you like it or not! And not using your support makes you look like crap!"

[drizzle]

*pushes the ON button on the sarcasm detector*

[Rizen]

*puts in 2 cents*

I will put it like this, a person who only plays one aspect of their class is only holding their party back.

A Fortetecher who only buff and heals only makes their parties members work harder under time constrains.
A Fortetecher who only uses offensive spells are doomed to let other people suffer greatly.
A Fortetecher who uses both support and offensive spells will allow their party to move along smoothly.

I also would like to point out that support just doesn't mean "I throw you heals and buffs!", its more "I will back you up with my all my spells!"

So I wouldn't say "Support First, Nuke Later," I would say "Support When Necessary, With What's Necessary."

*2 cents get rejected* Damn...http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Guildenstern]

I also would like to point out that support just doesn't mean "I throw you heals and buffs!", its more "I will back you up with my all my spells!"

So I wouldn't say "Support First, Nuke Later," I would say "Support When Necessary, With What's Necessary."

The thread has been won. o_ob Thanks for saying that, you're much more eloquent than I would have been trying to express the same thing. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[Sychosis]

On 2007-10-24 13:00, Rizen wrote:
*puts in 2 cents*

I will put it like this, a person who only plays one aspect of their class is only holding their party back.

A Fortetecher who only buff and heals only makes their parties members work harder under time constrains.
A Fortetecher who only uses offensive spells are doomed to let other people suffer greatly.
A Fortetecher who uses both support and offensive spells will allow their party to move along smoothly.

I also would like to point out that support just doesn't mean "I throw you heals and buffs!", its more "I will back you up with my all my spells!"

So I wouldn't say "Support First, Nuke Later," I would say "Support When Necessary, With What's Necessary."

*2 cents get rejected* Damn...http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif



http://boards2.sega.com/psu_board/viewtopic.php?p=501218&highlight=#501218

High five!

[omegapirate2k]

I also prefer shades of gray in my fortetechers.

[Reipard]

*puts in 2 cents*

I will put it like this, a person who only plays one aspect of their class is only holding their party back.

A Fortetecher who only buff and heals only makes their parties members work harder under time constrains.
A Fortetecher who only uses offensive spells are doomed to let other people suffer greatly.
A Fortetecher who uses both support and offensive spells will allow their party to move along smoothly.

I also would like to point out that support just doesn't mean "I throw you heals and buffs!", its more "I will back you up with my all my spells!"

So I wouldn't say "Support First, Nuke Later," I would say "Support When Necessary, With What's Necessary."

Of course, you're absolutely right. But with the way PSU is structured, people who want to nuke are unfairly shoehorned into support mages whether they like it or not. I think that problem is that, while techs were recently split, Sega is taking a 'no nerf route' and balancing around existing standards. Which really sucks, because it means everyone gets 30 support and 10 levels of Tech is the only difference between the nuker mage and the healer mage. The problem still lives on.

[MSAksion]

I say if the enemies are tough its worth at least a ZALURE. Defense down means every single bullet and every sword swing - normal and Photon Art attack - will do extra damage to every enemy you successfully encircled.

In a team situation - combine debuffed enemies, buffed teammates, and Damage over time attacks like BURN and virus and enemies will drop like flies. At lvl 54~ it may not seem like much but wait till S and S2 missions. Every ounce of Pain you can help others deliver will be supremely appreciated.

Even little guys on S and S2 take time - they run around and like to dodge attacks. Debuff them as they run away so the team ranger can do extra while trying to Sniper Freeze it while you unload a quick Diga thenhave a hunter finish it off and you're all saving Time. In 1up even a few seconds saved can mean S and A rank.

[Kinako78]

On 2007-10-23 17:55, Shou wrote:
you are looking at the best supporter in the game right in this very thread! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif ME!!! (come AotI at least....)

But uh... even you heal all the time, buff all the time, and debuff all the time, you still have pleanty of time to fit in nukes.

Burning Rangers ARE Support. I cant wait to change from fT to Acrotecher and have been planning this even before the Firebreak event.



Yeah, there's gonna be tons of better supporters then me, come AoI. The thing is I always knew my place on the support scale. If there's no one with better buffs then me, then I'll support. But, since I plan to stay a WT, at least for the time being, I may just about be seeing the last of my buffing days. XD

[ThEoRy]

On 2007-10-24 09:27, SolomonGrundy wrote:
chiming in for Sy here. I had to TRY to eat a dimate under his watch. At the time I believe we were doing Eastern Perils S runs and he level cap was either 60 or 70.

Pink Mag is also an amazing supporter.

Octagon is a good supporter. I say good because he's often pretty tired when he plays, and plays and sometimes has to be reminded to use techs - even for his OWN benefit (*coff* gifoie *coff*). fun guy to play with though.

Auralianis (spelling?): top notch supporter.

I think I played with a wartecher who was shockinly good at support. This as back when deva zashi was just released, and she has one. She kept going QUACK QUACK as a chat, and I didn't get it. lol. but damn, she was so on the ball when it came to reverser/resta.


Hah! You West Coast Bastards! LOL So I passed out on ya once or twice at a boss or two. Big whoop wanna fight about it?

That whole gifoi thing though.. I'll admit that you did help me out by reminding me to level it kinda often. But that's because I was always preoccupied with properly supporting you!

Seriously though, I have to throw the proper tech for each situation. Support with Buffs and Debuffs first of course, then Ra techs when in proper range. Gi or Dam techs when surrounded with mobs. Ultimate PA's when usefull. Resta Reverser GiResta when needed. And my specialty of course, Battle Buffs.

I take a lot of pride in being a TECHER and I truly play it from the heart. I've been doing this a long time now and I've never grown tired of supporting the team.

For 20 years now Phantasy Star has been a part of my life and has meant a lot to me. It was there for me as a child to help me to escape the horrors of my reality. And again as an adult PSO helped me through some pretty rough depression. And just as It had become a part of me when I was young. I have now become a part of IT. I will continue to forge my way into the depths of this Universe with the support skills I have acquired. There is no need to thank me for Healing or Buffing as that would be like me thanking you for shooting or swinging a sword. Or as you may have heard me say in response with Cut in Chat, "That's my job it's what I do. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif "

ThEoRy/OcTagoN

[drizzle]

On 2007-10-24 14:34, MSAksion wrote:
I say if the enemies are tough its worth at least a ZALURE. Defense down means every single bullet and every sword swing - normal and Photon Art attack - will do extra damage to every enemy you successfully encircled.

Yeah, roughly 10-20 more per hit. No, just cast that Ra-tech instead, you kill faster that way.

[mvffin]

10-20 per hit adds up quickly with a crossbow or mechgun. jellen is the one thats completely useless. OMF THEY HAVE LOWER ATTACK! they should be dead before they hit you twice anyways.

[ThEoRy]

I cast Zalure just for you guys, jellen is for me http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Zalure really is worthless. It'll add, at best all of 12 extra damage per hit.

WOW, 12.

Jellen is also kind of unnecessary in most situations, since things die so quickly. Zoldeel, however, is a godsend for Mizura and anything else with ridiculous EVP.

[JAFO22000]

What kind of Zalure are you using? Mine is MUCH more useful than 12 extra HP's per hit...that is, IF I were to use it, because I don't.

[Mystil]

Zalure has already been anally pointed out by somebody to add a whole "17 extra points of damage".

[beatrixkiddo]

That was me!

And yeah, Zalure adds about 20 pts of damage for a normal, grunt-type lv100 enemy.

[Seifer-HUcast]

Well as i said i prefered to support (wanting to relive my FOmarl days), i found nuking too slow and felt like i was just slowing the group down (low techs or wrong techs, probably both).

Ive tried Wartecher, lvl 5 now and after seeing Zalure only increases damage by very little ive stopped using it unless theres a large group or a tough mob.

Im still supporting and finding it as easy as before, but if a FT joins i'll let them take over. Finding WT alot more fun and love being able to solo mobs without dying in 2hits http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[imfanboy]

Zalure does depend on the enemy - on big guys like Gol Dova and Carriguine, it adds 40-80 a hit, which considering how long you can spend beating on them... well, that's important. plus, if a Carri buffs itself, it practically quarters your melee damage.

On Koltova, it's about 30-40 a hit, which is significant when using bullets.

But yeah, most of the time it's bloody useless.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: imfanboy on 2007-10-25 08:48 ]</font>

[SolomonGrundy]

I think the hardest part about FO-ing is that the role can change significantly depending on the party.

1 force + 3 burly fortefighters? They don't need zalure or jellen (maybe zodeel if you are running with beasts).

1 force + 3 guntechers and a Wartecher? Guess we won't need to worry about resta too much, but you become the heavy for single target damage with diga and foie.

how about the all FO party?

other jobs tend to be more straightforward. Even for gunners playing with SEs. Most of the time my toughtest decision as a fortegunner si whether to bother with a virus, confuse, or freeze trap.

[Mystil]

On 2007-10-24 16:45, beatrixkiddo wrote:
That was me!

And yeah, Zalure adds about 20 pts of damage for a normal, grunt-type lv100 enemy.


yea 80dmg is better than 100dmg folks.