1Up Cup - The worst Job Type to do fast runs

[milka]

Topic n_n;

[CelestialBlade]

Oh this is gonna turn into a Type flame war real quick.

I know GT is gonna receive a ton of hate like it always does, but I will say that I can solo Parum pretty easily as a GT and it isn't slow, either. Crossbows and Cards are a good combination, for the regular mission and the boss.

[milka]

Well I know some GT that have excellent bullets on xbows.. really helps alot in all missions...

I usually get mad with stupid ppl.. like:

Yesterday I partied with a female FT newman using light spear in a Kog lv100...

[Raine_Loire]

Hmm, I was soloing C runs as a fortetecher... It was not coming along as fast as I wanted, so I switched to hunter, and wartecher, neither of which went any faster. Laguna was a fortefighter and managed soloing runs pretty quickly, but I guess what level you are in the class matters more than what the class is, at least if you are properly equipped.

[PJ]

Are we going to assume this only pertains to soloing?

Cause if it's teams, not to be elitist (cause as soon as I say it, I become one), the hybrid classes will not do it faster.

Soloing, Wartecher and Guntecher have a chance.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Why isn't Wartecher included in the poll? Not to bash Wartechers or anything, but its just the one class that's not in the list. Granted, when Neudaiz comes, and Shiro would most likely be lv 100 by then, I'm probably gonna hunt using Therion, and I'll make her a Wartecher since Neudaiz is extremely anti-Fortetecher except for robots, fatties, and Kamatozes, I can just melee the Olgomons and the Ageetas.

[milka]

I forgot the Wartechers U_U;;;;;;;;;;;;

[CelestialBlade]

Wartechers can solo so well I don't see why anyone would cast a vote for them anyway. Any class that can do damage and support themselves kindof has a built-in advantage. PJ said this in a way above.

In a party I think the Fortefighters, Fighgunners, and maybe Fortetechers win. But soloing, I say you can do no wrong with hybrid classes.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I know, it has nothing to do with them sucking, just more to do with them being excluded. ):

[-Ryuki-]

I don't think any classes suck at all. I happen to know GT's who are capable of near-S-ranking the bonus missions. PT's do well, too.

[amtalx]

If we are talking about soloing, fG. You don't need techs if you have items. Particularly if the items are better than the spells...

EOF

[Powder Keg]

If you had to say Solo.....Fortegunner would probably get the job done slowest, and FT because of suvival problems http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif In a team though, everyone has a use so it's really hard to vote.

[amtalx]

Slow, LOL! Speed runs are pretty much best done with fGs solo...

[CelestialBlade]

I wouldn't call a Fortegunner faster than a Fortefighter but they are good for soloing these missions. The only thing that remotely slows any Ranger-types down in Parum is Svaltus, but all you need there is anything that can proc Virus. Crossbows and Shotguns are also excellent for EX missions. I still think Fortefighter wins in terms of DPS though.

I put in my vote for Fortetechers being the worst, in terms of soloing. In my experience anyway, soloing using nothing but Technics is not fun at all, Dambarta or not. It at least isn't as easy as guns or melee weapons. Not to mention really low HP and DFP is not what you want when you're trying to Gidiga a bunch of Go Vahra.

[Rashiid]

melee (fortefight mainly) is probably the most useful types right now - all enemies that take awhile to kill have multiple spots - Majarra anyone? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[PJ]

On 2007-10-24 06:28, Typheros wrote:
I put in my vote for Fortetechers being the worst, in terms of soloing. In my experience anyway, soloing using nothing but Technics is not fun at all, Dambarta or not. It at least isn't as easy as guns or melee weapons. Not to mention really low HP and DFP is not what you want when you're trying to Gidiga a bunch of Go Vahra.



See, this is where my bit saying GT/WT are probably good for soloes (Although not much experience WT wise, just the principal of the class)

When I got my main character to 60, I wanted to do A Rank Story missions for frags. First did 10-1 (Wow, Ethan TORE APART CURTZ, it wasn't even funny), then I went to 1-1. And I finished it as Fortetecher, with a C RANK. I was like, "Wait, what? How the fuck can I do that better?"

Then I remembered that Gohmon were tech resistant. And then learned that Ageeta were tech resistant.

So went through as Guntecher and was able to do it. Although I need more bullets levelled, I had to rely almost exclusively on my crossbow >_>

[amtalx]

fG vs fF DPS usually depends on the mob. Given the spawns in the Parum mission, its about split I'd say. Svaltus puts fGs at a bit of a disadvantage though. But Virus + Multi-hitting (if you are lucky you can score 3) takes them out pretty fast. The problem is the Svaltus spin move will eat HP pretty quickly. Moatoob is also kinda split. fFs suck with the handful of flyers, and aren't quite as efficient with Vandas, but bullets do nothing to Kog Nadds and Bil de Vears...

[panzer_unit]

Worst? My guess would be WarTecher. They're lacking in raw power, and the versatility on the class is primarily support techs instead of SE.

You can't _own_ the Moatoob mission without a gunner, it's as simple as that. On the other hand if there's anything you can't have enough of in any situation, it's probably fighters. They're pretty good against almost everything and especially the huge number of cannon-fodder enemies you have to fight.

[Chaobo99]

Gi-spells and xbows FTW!!

[mvffin]

honestly, i think it would be GT. the xbow/mechgun does more damage with an FG, and the buffs are pointless because of agtarides and zodiarides. bows on the boss is the only real advantage here.

PT does pretty well, I use Dus Majarra on most enemies, I have shotgun for melee resistant ones, and bow for the dragon when he flies.

FT lacks in casting speed but can make up for it in big numbers, especially dambarta-ing groups of enemies. svaltus is really the only slow part, since you can't virus or multi-hit him.

FI shouldn't be too bad, i dont have one myself so i can't say for sure. Melee/mechguns should be all you need. twinnies for flyers.

As for WT, the melee doesn't stand up to FF, but overall its still better than GT and maybe even PT. majarra, hishou, card and bow. even dambarta if you like.

[Tomeeboy]

Added Wartecher to the poll options http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[milka]

On 2007-10-24 08:10, Tomeeboy wrote:
Added Wartecher to the poll options http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif



Thx <3 <3 <3

[SolomonGrundy]

I'd have to say for speed: WT while they are hardy, they lack some raw offfensive capability. Then again my WT is a newman, and so her ATP is...lowish.

for survie-ability? Probably guntecher. Lower HP, low level buffs (unless you ue rides), and they don't hit back as hard.

thi pretty much applies only to parum as you cannot solo moatoob.

[CelestialBlade]

Guntechers have Resta in addition to mates if they really need them, Reverser, and nothing one-hits them on any of the 1up missions. Surviveability is not a problem at all.

[Golto]

Its a toss up between GT and WT they just don't have the power of the other types. GT and Wt techs are almost worthless. Use items. GT bullet damage is a lot lower than FtG. WT melee damage is lower than FT/FiG. In 1up ex missions is all about damage and speed neither of these can out damage equivalent lvled characters of the other types in pertnent attack types.

[-Xios-]

I believe Fighgunner would probaly be best, If you end up with just 1 or 2 monster you can just shoot them down quickly but if you end up with a bunch you can just walk right through them with some type of spinning skill.

Fortefighter would probaly be pretty slow unless there using a quick weapon(spears or daggers).

Fortegunner would seem pretty fast just spam shooting everywhere.

Fortetech would be pretty slow, I have played a force from 1-62 and I HATE soloing, expecially with all thoughs mobs that jump around and you can barely hit them half the time.

Wartecher+Guntecher, both would be good... not the best to solo C, but like if you were planning on solo B or A they have a higher survival chance.

Protranser wouldn't be great right now, maybe in AotI they would do better for soloing.

Everything I have said would be based on a C run nothing higher.

[Hath_Wrobo]

Male Cast Guntecher here. I am able to solo Invisible Road C in less than 7 minutes. I can also complete the EX Jarba mission. Money-wise, I find this a lot better than doing A rank runs, as I get 15k for the S rank, and almost every jarba in the ex mission drops a parzanata, which sells to the NPC for 1290 each. Since I usually get about 14 of these, getting about 35k in 10 minutes is pretty awesome for the amount of work done.

[beatrixkiddo]

On 2007-10-24 06:58, panzer_unit wrote:
Worst? My guess would be WarTecher. They're lacking in raw power, and the versatility on the class is primarily support techs instead of SE.

You can't _own_ the Moatoob mission without a gunner, it's as simple as that. On the other hand if there's anything you can't have enough of in any situation, it's probably fighters. They're pretty good against almost everything and especially the huge number of cannon-fodder enemies you have to fight.



Actually, Moatoob mission is pretty much the only mission so far that you can do without ANY gunners, unless you mean for 10/10 Clear.

[Sasamichan]

On 2007-10-24 08:00, mvffin wrote:

FT lacks in casting speed but can make up for it in big numbers, especially dambarta-ing groups of enemies. svaltus is really the only slow part, since you can't virus or multi-hit him.


fT can stick virus on Svaltus with a lv21 dark bow.

[chibiLegolas]

I vote GT to be the slowest in general, if you take a class at their max levels.

As of now, their resta/buffs/debuffs aren't gonna help speed up missions, in parties or not.
Using several castings of weak resta slows down the game, where you could just use a good mate. Get beatten down a lot to even warrent constant resta? Then you're not being the quickest class out of that list.

So if you're gonna take away a GT's wand, there's not much benefit from them compared to FoG, no?

Bows are slower than rifles, and both are mainly used for SE4 application anyways, no? And raw bullet damage? I'm sure there's better guns to use than a bow, even with armor penetration, right?

Cards are good damage overall. But they're STILL slow weapons, unless you have trouble point blanking things with your xbows/shotguns.

GT who rely heavily on SE for damage output will learn that SE application really is random at times. So if you're gonna go that route, you might as well go FoG who will have more raw bullet damage in case your SE doesn't stick.

And as for trap use, PT and FoG will both deal more damage with them, and have access to shock and virus, both what GT don't get.
Sometimes, I get fed up with my SE3 crossbows not sticking, so I'd sometimes lay down a trap instead.
Though Burn G are still good overall for speed, still PT and FoG deal slightly more damage with them (a minor pro?).

I'm not saying GT's are useless. GT's my primary class afterall. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif
Given enough levels, they can be quite usefull. But this poll is about the SLOWEST out of the list. Not who can survive the best in parties or solo.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chibiLegolas on 2007-10-24 12:02 ]</font>

[CyarVictor]

My friend and i have been partying with a guntecher. Actually i am a guntecher right now and we've been blasting through Parum. Even when I was a fF, we had the GT with us and we can three man moatoob and get to the 2nd set of boxes in the ex mission. We already got the 10pts on both planets with her. Guntechers are just like a fortegunner with a little less atk. Other than that, there's really no difference.

[Jaspaller]

I'm split between Wartecher and Guntecher... Guntecher gets my vote though with its measly monomate resta. Also Fighgunner getting 3 votes? Sheesh, Fighgunner's tear it up nicely with a elemental doublesaber and some PA's.

[Yusaku_Kudou]

Obvious nobody's voting fortegunner, as it's easily the best class to do these runs as quickly as possible. Even on my newman at lv89, fortegunner is so much faster than anything else it's crazy. Got me an HPC in my armor and using the berserk grenade launcher PA on De Ragnus. Goes down way faster than anything else doing like 550-600 per target point every grenade shell. I could solo it faster than some parties take him down without a fortegunner. Just gotta watch my wittle-bitty newman HPs.

[beatrixkiddo]

If only FG was as useful in the EX though ;(

[desturel]

On 2007-10-24 12:16, Yusaku_Kudou wrote:
Got me an HPC in my armor and using the berserk grenade launcher PA on De Ragnus. Goes down way faster than anything else doing like 550-600 per target point every grenade shell. I could solo it faster than some parties take him down without a fortegunner.


De Ragnus + Anga Jabroga >20 + 4fF = Dead De Ragnus

Ragnus is a joke as long as you don't freeze out, he barely adds to your time. It's gotten to the point where a person I run with who almost always freezes on Ragnus just sits outside the teleport until we kill him. We'd rather have him with us during the Bonus part of the mission.

[Zael]

Protranser lol

[pokefiend]

FT, no competition. It's an abesolute fact, the less amount of ppl in a party the worse FT does. There's only 4 ppl in a 1up party. Half of the time, the party is split up into two groups of two, making FT an ineffective damage dealer.

I still have difficulties grasping onto why in the world do most parties I meet prefer an FT over a Wt. My Abby is a lvl 96 Female newman Wt/Gt/FT. She has decent FT equipment and very much adequate tech PAs, however as a FT, Abby's no where near of great a damage dealer as when she's a Wartecher. (Although, part of the reason is b/c, my meelee weaponry completely outclasses my tech weaponry)

As for a FT's superior support? My Abby as a WT in prime form, heals for around 2000 HP, I believe that's adequate enough.

[CyarVictor]

FT is an ineffective dmg dealer? I can say the same about a newman WT. A race not designed for melee in a class that needs an overhaul. I've been in a party with a FT for the most part. he buffs, but he doesn't heal. We don't want him to heal us. All the gunners and fortefighters pop trimates cause it's quicker. When we split up, he does fine. Ft's have great dmg output. Remember not all FT's diga spam. He uses a mix of ra/gi/dam spells depending on the size of the mob. We can do Moatoob A in 14 mins with him. Doesn't seem like a class that would lack. I have yet to party with a protranser, so I'm curious in how they do in these runs. By the way, I do party with a beast WT and she does fine. I really have no problems with class or race, I have problems with the person at the controller when they do stupid moves like die without scapes in the three teleporters after everyone went throguh the right one and he decided to run into another one.

[Guildenstern]

This topic fails. (.___.);; These missions aren't particularly hard, just about any combo of jobs can S rank them as long as you're of a sufficient level.

Perhaps should rename topic to "1Up Cup: Help me make fun of jobs that aren't Forte LOLZ"?

[SolomonGrundy]

if you had very high% 9* spears and sabers, maybe a WT might be decent, but most don't.

I tried using the 8* 34% dark twin claw on svaltus with a level 7 newman. Did less tha 200 per hit location (150ish). And that is WITH shifta (but not zalure.

FT hit very hard. With the right armor FTs are fast. the most time they spend casting, the better they are, which is why they do SO well in parties

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-10-24 13:11, Guildenstern wrote:
This topic fails. (.___.);; These missions aren't particularly hard, just about any combo of jobs can S rank them as long as you're of a sufficient level.

Perhaps should rename topic to "1Up Cup: Help me make fun of jobs that aren't Forte LOLZ"?



Welcome to PSOW.

[Golto]

On 2007-10-24 12:16, Yusaku_Kudou wrote:
Obvious nobody's voting fortegunner, as it's easily the best class to do these runs as quickly as possible. Even on my newman at lv89, fortegunner is so much faster than anything else it's crazy. Got me an HPC in my armor and using the berserk grenade launcher PA on De Ragnus. Goes down way faster than anything else doing like 550-600 per target point every grenade shell. I could solo it faster than some parties take him down without a fortegunner. Just gotta watch my wittle-bitty newman HPs.



My lvl 100 female cast FtG does 900-1100 each hit to de ragnus w/ buff and lvl 28 berserk grenade. It can go down very fast but so can I in 3-4 good shots.

[Remedy]

Fortechers are the weak link in 1UP, IMO.

[beatrixkiddo]

It's Fortechter.

[Rashiid]

4 fortefighers all spamming Majarra....5min runs? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Kion]

lol, yeah GT is the worst. Because it's not like FG's use twin handguns and mechguns the entire mission anyways. And they have zomg, a whole 40 ATP more than us which can't be over come with buffs. Not to mention that resta, mobile weapons and safe spots make trimates obsolete. Plus, traps and DoT's don't help at all anyways. It's not like freezing or burning an enemy could ever come in handy. So yeah, GT is the worst class. They suck and they'll slow down your party. I suggest you blacklist any GT you come across.

Courtesy Edit: This post is meant to be sarcastic for those of you who couldn't pick up on that up.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kion on 2007-10-24 15:54 ]</font>

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-10-24 15:40, Kion wrote:
lol, yeah GT is the worst. Because it's not liek FG's use twin handguns and mechguns the entire mission anyways. And they have zomg, a whole 40 ATP more than us which can't be over come with buffs. Not to mention that resta, mobile weapons and safe spots make trimates obsolete. Plus, traps and DoT's don't help at all anyways. It's not liek freezing or burning an enemy could ever come in handy. So yeah, GT is the worst class for soloing. They suck and they'll slow down your party. I suggest you blacklist any GT you come across.



omg offended D:

[PJ]

Hey, obviously-GT-favouring person, ever consider this isn't just about solo?

Now excuse me while I go set virus trap Gs.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PJ on 2007-10-24 15:48 ]</font>

[Rashiid]

yah i dont see anywhere in the topic title/post about solo'ing.....

[Kion]

Gah! I threw that in there by accident. Sentene makes sense with out it (more or less), so please disregaurd. GT does get alittle over shadowed by FT in terms of support and in SE with FG's. Virus traps are definately hit faster than yousei-sou, and level 10 buffs don't count for much. I've temporarily switched to FG for those two reasons.

But in terms of GT play style as mobile gunner; mechgun are amazing in EX missions and xbow status effects to help the rest of the party go along way. My sarcastic and unthought-threw post was a response to seeing my class being looked down on (yet again). But in this case i guess it's okay http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Mystil]

No class is bad.

<65 and more than 2 players <65 and the run isn't going to be all that fast.

For A runs.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mystil on 2007-10-24 16:44 ]</font>

[Fleur-de-Lis]

With the amount of times players have complained about me using GT, I can only imagine how many times I have been passed over in the lobby as a result of this prejudice. Tables turn quickly once we're in the mission, however...

[gryphonvii]

I think fighgunner can do things fastest, not only can you melee decently, but with machine guns and twin pistols, you can take down enemies weak to bullets, like jarbas.

[Bman40]

what is so bad about guntechers?

[Mystil]

GTs are seen as "wannabe fortegunners" with lower ATP/ATA and a "wannabe force(not FT) with high HP higher DFP but lower TP. Anything a GT can do on the gunner side a FG can do better. Or so it goes.

[Gen2000]

Guntechers aren't that bad, at least Beast Guntecher, last I check (but during the older caps) Male Beast Guntecher had like 30-60 something points lower ATP than a female Cast Fortegunner and no one would call Caseal fGs weak. The main thing that kept Guntechers from being awesome in terms of speedrunning is two things I saw my from experience of playing my Male Beast GT vs. my Caseal fG; Virus Traps and Grenade Launcher (even moreso with Duranga).

Burn G is awesome and all but worthless when you scroll up against against a Relics robot mob, they can't really do nothing but peck at em with Virus Rifle/Bow and hope to effect em or melee them with high % Dark dagger backed by Buten/Hikai (good luck not eating Svatlus Tornado Break in the face 45583 times).

IMO, any class that can use Majarra shouldn't be counted anywhere close to worse. Even with PT's gimped ATP Majarra will still kill mobs faster than a attack tech in 90% of the situations these missions provide us with so far. A lot of people voting PT are probably the ones who either tried to play PT like some gimped Fortegunner (using mostly bows, shotguns and laser cannons) or seen too many others doing the same.

[SolomonGrundy]

look, there are 9 jobs, and 1 is the slowest. Why get uncomfortable if GT is the job? just because it is not FAST, does not mean it is not GOOD.

[Remedy]

I don't get why everyone keeps saying "buffs are useless since there are buff items".

Buff items are level 1 buffs. Guntecher buffs are level 2 buffs (assuming they're 11+). That's another 5% ATP/ATA/DFP/EVP/MST/TP that you get by bringing that Guntecher in place of a Fortegunner. Does that Fortegunner have 5% more ATP than the Guntecher? No? Then the Guntecher is doing more than the Fortegunner.

gg http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

(The proper answer is still Fortecher)

Edit: Oopsie. I was laboring under the delusion that you Guntechers had level 20 techs, eheh. =>.>=;;

(The proper answer really is still Fortecher, though.)


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Remedy on 2007-10-25 23:35 ]</font>

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-10-25 23:14, Remedy wrote:
I don't get why everyone keeps saying "buffs are useless since there are buff items".

Buff items are level 1 buffs. Guntecher buffs are level 2 buffs (assuming they're 11+). That's another 5% ATP/ATA/DFP/EVP/MST/TP that you get by bringing that Guntecher in place of a Fortegunner. Does that Fortegunner have 5% more ATP than the Guntecher? No? Then the Guntecher is doing more than the Fortegunner.

gg http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

(The proper answer is still Fortecher)



except you have it backwards Remedy.

[Remedy]

On 2007-10-25 23:18, SolomonGrundy wrote:
except you have it backwards Remedy.Ah, touche, Guntechers only have level 10 technics now. For some insane reason, I could've sworn they had level 20. Go figure. *shrug*

Buff items are still level 1, though.

[Gen2000]

On 2007-10-25 23:09, SolomonGrundy wrote:
look, there are 9 jobs, and 1 is the slowest. Why get uncomfortable if GT is the job? just because it is not FAST, does not mean it is not GOOD.




But it's not the slowest though.