1Up Cup - No one wants FT for runs in Neudaiz

[milka]

I guess this is payback for GTs in Moatoob - Parum hehe...

Anyways.. Seems FT are no help on Neudaiz.. the enemies have high Mind, making the techs useless..

And the party can go along pretty well with Trimates and Buff Itens...

Thanks God I have an alt char FF lv99.. n_n;;

[Rashiid]

basically.

we had 2 fighers, me as gunner, and a FT. went pretty smooth.

then a figther had to go, and we got another tekker.

.....missions went from 22min to 29min.
was pretty funny to me http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[StkDrowsy]

Ehh i beg to differ, i am a lvl 61 Ft, and 3 level 100's asked me to buff, heal, and nuke for them in an A Run. But still most parties are made up of FG or FF.

[milka]

22-29min?!?!?!?

that's too much!!!

I usually do 15-18min... 3 FF and 1 gunner

[milka]

Maybe FT will be helpfull at Colony.. I dont know... ReGrants blasting enemies away probably will be not so good in the EX missions

[Rashiid]

all classes have their missions http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Gen2000]

People still want fTs if they want to save money (I'm a cheap bastard) and/or want to do EX1 (if there are no Cast/Beast in party to SUV/Nanoblast the last spawn of robots for completion). The mission can be done in 20min with 2/3 people anyways so the fT is there mainly for a healpool and better buffs for that portion of the mission.

[CelestialBlade]

Techs useless? Last I checked they still did damage.

Fortefighters don't just become useless against melee-resistant enemies. You still do damage, just not maximum potential....but more Fortetechers are strong enough to where they don't have to worry about it much.

And what party doesn't want heals/buffs?

[milka]

On 2007-10-31 06:05, Typheros wrote:
Techs useless? Last I checked they still did damage.

Fortefighters don't just become useless against melee-resistant enemies. You still do damage, just not maximum potential....but more Fortetechers are strong enough to where they don't have to worry about it much.

And what party doesn't want heals/buffs?



Since the mission just allows you to have 4 ppl in a party...

Adding a FT just for buff and heals.. I think is pfft...

Party with 1 FT - runs 4min +
Party with 2 FT - runs 9min +
Party with 3 FT - LOL
Party with 4 FT - ROFL

[Remedy]

Yeah, Milka's pretty much dead on.

[milka]

On 2007-10-31 06:15, Remedy wrote:
Yeah, Milka's pretty much dead on.



Yeap... Milka is taking a rest =D

Romeu is on now ^.-

[amtalx]

Funny how I decided to lvl my techer on the worst week possible. I play primarily support though, so most players don't say anything. Besides, everyone likes Reverser (wtf ST, I still call it Anti) when they are frozen and 2309483 Bartas are coming at them. Odd that no one bitches when I save their ass. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[zandra117]

I dont know what your talking about. ForteTechers useless because Techs don't work? Obviously they are using the wrong techs and dont know about elemental resistance. I am easily clearing A rank missions with my LvL 67 Newman FT.

[Remedy]

Clearing? Sure.

Getting an S-rank, and completing EX? Not a prayer.

[zandra117]

I got 10 points so yeah I got an S rank. and we've cleared EX, fortetechers are good at breaking all the boxes at once to get the monsters to continue spawning quickly. Use fire and dark element, It owns on neudaiz. I use Damfoie, Gifoie, and Megiverse for the neudaiz mobs. Also element stack your rods if you want the elements to really work well.

[Zael]

Yeah :/

I switched my newman to FF and equipped her with 44% Spears. She's so much more useful in Neudaiz now.

[Kamiense]

I've actually found it easier to find a party as an fT, even a party of level 100s will take a level 75 fortetecher, it's just a matter of luck.

[Zael]

Luck doesn't make things easy.

[Remedy]

LUCK DOES NOTHING BUT INCREASE DROP-ANYTHING RATE AND GRIND RATES

Oh... we're not talking about in-game luck?

Carry on then =>.>=;

[zandra117]

At least on 360 just idle silently in the lobby, you will get invited to someones party in less than 30 seconds guaranteed. Nearly everyone is doing A runs so you dont really have to worry about getting caught in a low rank party. A good party set up to look for if your a FT is a party that has 3 FFs and a FT with the FFs slightly higher level than the FT.

[Sekani]

Any fortetecher who thinks they're useless in either the Neudaiz run or the EX mission afterwards needs to reroll, because they're doing their class a great disservice.


Mod edit: flames removed



[ This Message was edited by: Ryna on 3007-10-31 09:99 ]

[JAFO22000]

On 2007-10-31 07:53, Sekani wrote:
Any fortetecher who thinks they're useless in either the Neudaiz run or the EX mission afterwards needs to reroll, because they're doing their class a great disservice.


Mod edit: flames removed



[ This Message was edited by: Ryna on 3007-10-31 09:99 ]



FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS! FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS!!!!

lol

[Remedy]

The ONLY reason that we have any use at all is our buffs and debuffs (for those that use them). If we did not have those, ANY class could do better than use in Neudaiz.

[Mystil]

Any non-techers here sick and tired of seeing FTs saying they suck and/or no one wants them in thier party WHICH IS NOT FREAKING TRUE?





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mystil on 2007-10-31 09:09 ]</font>

[ZodiacNKnight]

On 2007-10-31 08:00, JAFO22000 wrote:

On 2007-10-31 07:53, Sekani wrote:
Any fortetecher who thinks they're useless in either the Neudaiz run or the EX mission afterwards needs to reroll, because they're doing their class a great disservice.


Mod edit: flames removed



[ This Message was edited by: Ryna on 3007-10-31 09:99 ]



FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS! FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS!!!!

lol



First Amendment doesn't apply to privately owned forums.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ZodiacNKnight on 2007-10-31 09:11 ]</font>

[Remedy]

Any techers here sick and tired of seeing non-techers miss the point ENTIRELY?

[BlackHat]

On 2007-10-31 05:41, StkDrowsy wrote:
Ehh i beg to differ, i am a lvl 61 Ft, and 3 level 100's asked me to buff, heal, and nuke for them in an A Run. But still most parties are made up of FG or FF.



No offense but you might have been chosen because no one else was looking for an "A" rank >.>

I had to invite a lvl 57 to an all 100 party and they yelled at me ._.

[amtalx]

Techers are far from useless. It's just that other classes are better on Neudaiz. I'm primarily a fG, and I didn't really mind when fighers went all "out ma way biatch" when there were Kog Nadds in the Moatoob mission. Just focus on what you can do well and you'll be fine.

[Rizen]

Okay Remedy, what is the point exactly since we don't have a clue? I really would like to know since I'm clearly missing it.

Just to put some silence to FTs complaining, yesterday I did an A run with 2 FT and 2 GT (me being one of them). We completely the mission in about 22 mins and we cleared both EX missions as well. And no, it wasnt the GTs doing all the work.

Pretty much, the FTs uses their Damu- and Gi- spells accordingly while I used my guns to draw enemies in closer into range. The other GT used his crossbow to pick off any enemies that were too far away to be hit by spells.

When it comes down to it, its teamwork that makes these missions work, not the class.

[Tellemyall]

BOOM! that techer you invited so you could save a couple thousand of meseta from buffs and mates just took that [b]uransara that you could've sold for 20mil

you lost.

[Kylie]

What? Neudaiz is hard? @_@

I can see where there might be a problem if the entire party consists of all techers, but having one or two isn't going to kill the party. Hell, you'll still probably get a ten.

[milka]

I still think you guys dont work or do anything else in life..

Cuz I cant spend 22-26min in one run in neudaiz since the drops usually suxs... Just because of buff and debuff....

14-17min runs.. with NO techers!! It's the better way for me that just can play 4 hrs during the week...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: milka on 2007-10-31 09:29 ]</font>

[Yusaku_Kudou]

I don't think I could level up another character lol. I just switch between Fortefighter and Fortegunner when I feel like it on my newman.

[Rizen]

Whats 4 more mins if you actually enjoy it?

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-10-31 09:11, Remedy wrote:
Any techers here sick and tired of seeing non-techers miss the point ENTIRELY?

Watewut?

Hey, can't be best at every mission. This is really the first mission I've heard of where fT isn't among the best choices, so I don't see why fTs are throwing such a fit about it. Us fighters and gunners are more than used to not being the best all the time.

If your point is "WELL WHY ISN'T FT THE BEST AT EVERY MISSION SEGA?!" then all I can do is facepalm. Not being the top class for a mission DOES NOT mean you suck at it. You can use that "well they can bring Trimates" for EVERY mission and you'd completely obsolete your class, so, I really am not seeing what there is to complain about.

I run this mission with my good fT friend Kietrinia a lot and she has no trouble at all with the mission.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Typheros on 2007-10-31 09:31 ]</font>

[Lyric]

We usually try to get a FT with us actually. I'm a GT and I usually run with two FF's, so it's nice to be able to get healed frequently when you're getting barta/foie raped. Not to mention we've never got below an 8 like this, and have gotten 10's quite frequently. I don't see the problem with taking a fT at all.

[Kylie]

On 2007-10-31 09:29, Rizen wrote:
Whats 4 more mins if you actually enjoy it?


I agree. If I repeatedly did speed runs of the same damn mission on PSU, I'd quit within days. Seriously. I believe in taking the leisurely route and letting everyone be what they're happiest being. I'd rather take a few extra minutes and get the most enjoyment out of playing rather than being efficient with my rare hunting.

[BlackHat]

On 2007-10-31 09:27, milka wrote:
I still think you guys dont work or do anything else in life..


I do, but today is my day off http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Remedy]

On 2007-10-31 09:30, Typheros wrote:
Hey, can't be best at every mission.Really? Then why do Fortefighters get to?

[beatrixkiddo]

Fortefighters tbh have been pretty useless with Gunners and Techers around, until this latest batch of PAs. Let go of your Fortetecher pride and just enjoy the game.

[Rizen]

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif Remedy, I think you should reroll a Fortefighter since you idolize them so much.

[Aethereal]

I've done significantly faster (8+ minutes) runs of Neudaiz A with a party of two GTs (level 68 and 90), a FiG (level 60), and a FT (level 92) than I have with a party consisting of mostly level 80+ FFs or FiGs. Granted, a lot of that has to do with the actual people you're playing with.

FTs may not be the best type for this mission, but I've seen FTs that don't struggle at all with it. A smart FT can be very helpful in the mission.

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-10-31 09:51, Remedy wrote:

On 2007-10-31 09:30, Typheros wrote:
Hey, can't be best at every mission.Really? Then why do Fortefighters get to?

Wasn't aware they did. I'd much rather have a Fortegunner or a Fortetecher against a Tengohg, or a pack of robots, and certainly against anything that flies.

They may always have the best DPS, but that comes at the cost of pathetic ranged capability and dealing with plenty of melee-resistant enemies. Just like Fortetechers, they just have to reply on their raw damage potential to get past resistant enemies.

[beatrixkiddo]

Except FTs get bows for Tech-resistant things, with lv30 bullets. Fortefighter gets... lv10 handguns?

Remedy just needs to quit crying. It doesn't impress anyone.

[Lyric]

Every class has had down times in some way or another. Just live with it. It's a game for God's sake.

[Fresh]

I'm a level 100 techer and in the group I always party with I do way more damage and am way faster than fighters and gunners... No they aren't noobs most of their PA's are at 30 and most of their bullets are at 30. but i still am way stronger so this whole techer's slow the party I don't think so at least not this techer. Also If you want to say the bullets and stuff are faster and stronger my bow has 21+ of every element and i do around 500 to 600 damage with that and its just as fast as a rifle.

[SolomonGrundy]

high level fT gifoie is still high enough to 1 shot or 2 shot aggeta on B. use with a urasana or a well ground majimra with your me quick.

[Zorak000]

for the most part - I just buff, debuff, resta, then foie/dambarta/ice card when I'm done. use bow on omni. so what if im "holding the party back" at least I know that my party is saving money on trimates and my 21+ zalure combined with foie can seriously halp on EX missions. foie takes ageta HP down to around 400, and zalure makes everyone do just that extra bit of damage. and every bit helps. so what if another gunner/fighter can help in damage better than me. but the point is that I'M NOT A GUNNER/FIGHTER so I HAVE TO DO WHAT I CAN TO HELP THE PARTY.

[Lyric]

You guys are absolutely right http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I don't know what the other fT's are doing that make them feel helpless, but the ones I've run with do exactly what you three have stated, so there have been no problems whatsoever.

[imfanboy]

You know, it's funny - one party I was with, the FT was bitching about how little damage he was doing, we were taking WAY too long to finish the mission, etcetera...

So I told him to switch to Wartecher.

He said, "Eww, WT? All I have are some saber skills I was leveling up for Acrotecher."

Anyway, long story short, he switched to Wartecher, and it speeded up our runs by a minute and a half, even though he was a gimped low-level WT!

I'd rather have a WT than a FT on the Neudaiz run. Seriously.

It's about damn TIME WT got some love.

[beatrixkiddo]

If you're gonna have him go WT, why not just have him go Fortefighter and everyone uses mates and rides?

[Anduril]

The fact that I hit for so little due to TECH resistance is the reason I don't usually play in A parties. I just prefer to do B, since I'm at least some help there, and don't need to be revived when I burn through 5 scapes in 10 seconds becuase of those Foie Balls of Techer Death.

[bloodflowers]

Too many techers forget they can use bows and cards. Both work exceptionally well on Neudaiz.

[ThEoRy]

In good parties I don't seem to have any problem's reaching the final boxes on A. Sure I'm not as gross as I was last week back on Moatoob but whatever. My foi rips single targets at a distance with some heavy-er-ish damage, and my gifoi smacks the mobs of ageetas into oblivion. I think it's more because the enemies aren't packed in as tightly as they were before.
Plus that tech resistance is quite the nuisance isn't it?
But whatever, I still get the job done.

[Finae]

Lol Milka, you nublet ;P.

Useless here, yes. And they will be at colony somewhat...oh wait, I get to have eye damage again because FTs will be using regrant.

Lol, I have yet to see a FT out dps me on these runs. I've done runs with my FT and runs with my FF and my FF just eats all the mobs alive along with red nano. If a FT or techer party can finish the mission in 15 min, then show me how to play FT on this mission because my damage just blows lol. Hell, I can duo it with almost any other class and finish before 20 min. No way my FT can solo or duo it fast lol. Neudaiz is just gunner and fighter heavy and I'm too lazy to bring up numbers b/c I know I can deal over 8-10K+ dmg rather fast.

That doesn't mean I don't want atleast 1 FT in the party. If I'm tired of being the main damage dealer, I'll play on my FT or I'll switch my newman from FT to FF if we lack damage. Yes yes, its very sad when my newman can outdamage a beast http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.

[MSAksion]

Against my better judgement - and considering i'm an FT - i must agree - TECHERS on neudaiz are gimped due to those damn olgohmons and Ageeta with high Magical defense.

My usual 800-1000 damage is dropped to about 450-500. Horrendous drop in DPS for me even with damu- Foie/Barta

BARTA is my worst nightmare - as i try to heal here comes a few WAVES of ICE to stop me. Thus myself and my friend dies and forced to scape. Not even having high MST on a newgirl FT can help if you're frozen with a gang of olgohmon around.

I'd rather take my lvl 78 Figunner/guntecher along. Silence bullets =Q......... and i also bring two awesome Rangers and an FF with me now.

[Wallin]

I switched to Fortegunner after the first day of Neudaiz. It was kind of a drag, even using cards and bows it's just crippling. At least this way I got to level another class, so now I'll be all ready if I want to try being an Acrotecher. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Zael]

On 2007-10-31 15:30, bloodflowers wrote:
Too many techers forget they can use bows and cards. Both work exceptionally well on Neudaiz.


Why not just go guntecher then? >_>

[Schubalts]

Because Guntecher can't use rods or level 30 TECHNICS, perhaps?

[Zael]

But the point was that techs aren't useful in Neudaiz because everything's tech-resist. Someone suggested using Bows and Cards for techers, but why not just use it as Guntecher instead if you wanna focus on ranged damage with those weapons?

[Guildenstern]

S ranked both the mission and the EX mission with a Fortegunner, a Wartecher (lolBeast), a Fighgunner and me, a Fortetecher. Not a single one of us was over level 90.

Hell, we S ranked the EX mission even when the Fighgunner DC'd during Onmagoug.

...It's just a matter of skill and co-operation. Mostly co-operation. Just concentrate on working together and you'll be fine. I do not understand why everyone gets so wrought up over the setup when even lolhybrid jobs and the oh-so-maligned Fortetecher get the job done just as well.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Guildenstern on 2007-10-31 16:42 ]</font>

[Zael]

lolBeast?

Beasts are arguably the best race for Wartechers.

[Guildenstern]

On 2007-10-31 16:40, Zael wrote:
lolBeast?

Beasts are arguably the best race for Wartechers.



Haha, I wasn't serious. XD That's just what we call my Beast friend and I know she'll be reading this. I'd hate to let her down. :3

[The2dCour]

I do not understand why everyone gets so wrought up over the setup when even lolhybrid jobs and the oh-so-maligned Fortetecher get the job done just as well.
I do. It is because, like everything else on the internet... http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/business.jpg
But honestly, with good teamwork... a team of well trained crabs could S rank this mishonz, without waffles.

edit: you forgot to mention, I think we got a 10 that run?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The2dCour on 2007-10-31 18:35 ]</font>

[nooblet]

i always find the mission to be easier and smoother when Im playing as a fortetecher than a fortefighter. I dunno maybe its the ease of mind knowing that the melees get to let loose without fear of death.

I can see why people dont want techers, cause from experiences, most of the FOs just plain suck.

[milka]

On 2007-10-31 15:51, Finae wrote:
Lol Milka, you nublet ;P.

Useless here, yes. And they will be at colony somewhat...oh wait, I get to have eye damage again because FTs will be using regrant.

Lol, I have yet to see a FT out dps me on these runs. I've done runs with my FT and runs with my FF and my FF just eats all the mobs alive along with red nano. If a FT or techer party can finish the mission in 15 min, then show me how to play FT on this mission because my damage just blows lol. Hell, I can duo it with almost any other class and finish before 20 min. No way my FT can solo or duo it fast lol. Neudaiz is just gunner and fighter heavy and I'm too lazy to bring up numbers b/c I know I can deal over 8-10K+ dmg rather fast.

That doesn't mean I don't want atleast 1 FT in the party. If I'm tired of being the main damage dealer, I'll play on my FT or I'll switch my newman from FT to FF if we lack damage. Yes yes, its very sad when my newman can outdamage a beast http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.



>.>

[Gen2000]

Any combo can Srank the misssion, the mission isn't hard to Srank it. That's not even something to bring up. 4 Cast fTs could get Srank on this if need be. It's a matter of 15min vs. 26min+.


I'm a level 100 techer and in the group I always party with I do way more damage and am way faster than fighters and gunners... No they aren't noobs most of their PA's are at 30 and most of their bullets are at 30. but i still am way stronger so this whole techer's slow the party I don't think so at least not this techer. Also If you want to say the bullets and stuff are faster and stronger my bow has 21+ of every element and i do around 500 to 600 damage with that and its just as fast as a rifle.

If the fT is outdamaging the Gunners and Melees during this mission then something is wrong.


Too many techers forget they can use bows and cards. Both work exceptionally well on Neudaiz.

This is true but some rather not just play some gimped damage Guntecher and just rather speed up the mission by switching to the fF+Majarra combo or an actual Gunner I guess. It's a case of ass damage + reliable heals/buffs or reliable damage + ass heals/buffs. Heh.

[jayster]

Every speed run I'v ran, 16-19mins, we haven't had a techer, the party leader always refuses to pick up techers. It just seems that fighters and gunners do better on this level... And now that fighters have their new spear pa, they're actually very good and useful.

[milka]

On 2007-11-01 03:19, jayster wrote:
Every speed run I'v ran, 16-19mins, we haven't had a techer, the party leader always refuses to pick up techers. It just seems that fighters and gunners do better on this level... And now that fighters have their new spear pa, they're actually very good and useful.



Yes!! That's the point!! ^.-

[Dragwind]

An effect of area balance ;o

[bloodflowers]

On 2007-10-31 16:14, Zael wrote:

On 2007-10-31 15:30, bloodflowers wrote:
Too many techers forget they can use bows and cards. Both work exceptionally well on Neudaiz.


Why not just go guntecher then? >_>



Because my bow and cards are S rank, and as a Guntecher I can't support the party except for weak buffs and a monomate wand (with little more than melee range heals).



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bloodflowers on 2007-11-01 08:13 ]</font>

[kissablepimp]

A tech help a lot in a neudaiz misson because they could heal and buff up the party without whole party wasting all their healing and buffing items I like having at least one techer in my party in any mission.

[darkante]

I have never heard a person complaining about a Fortetecher before.
All the ones i have played with really appriciate all the free healing and strenght boost i give to the members.
And they don´t complain either when i use wrong elements, reason for that is that i wanna level them not resorting to use maxed techniques just because it´s more effektive.
Off course, if it´s timed based mission like this on A version then it´s a different matter but i just want an excuse to level them and i got it during C/B runs cause they are not that dependant on me to finish it on time. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Tigerram]

I'm a FT myself, and I must say when I finally bought a Me/Quick, it made all the difference in the world when it came to saving time in Neudaiz since I'm a constant Rod user. Without this little unit, I would have given up on this job a long time ago.

Anyhow, I think the part where it gets time un-savvy so to speak is in the second block of the Temple where I have to muscle through Tech-resistant Ageeta. That becomes an extreme pain, and I look forward to a team mate coming through and helping me knock them out so we can muscle on through. But some parties we have gotten through in 17-19 mins, some 20-23, just depends on how strong my team is. But I always get my hits in, keep buffs going, throw out Resta like mad, and take out the enemies left.

Thing is, I look at it this way...we won't see this mission again at least for another 2 weeks...for the people wanting to go back through Neudaiz that would skip a FT for another job when others are looking to do other missions in 2 weeks, as well as an economy that isn't really large anyway, and you could just get your team mates and go through the mission anyway you can, but choose to be ignorant, that's too bad. I personally would want a buffer and healer if I were a gunner or fighter.

Remedy, you and I were were FT's in 1 party. We actually got a perfect 10, and we got through all the bonus boxes. Btw, Remedy is kick azz^^.

FT's are slow in Neudaiz, yes. Worthless? Well it's like this...have fun buying your extra scapes and mates, while other parties are doing just fine with FT's helping them out. That is of course, if you have a FT that isn't very great http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[-Xios-]

... FT is only good for the mission, blows for Ex-Mission1, Ex-Mission2 good for dmg on robots, fG > FF, I can't stand useing majarra at Ex-Mission, all about the Twin Handguns. and Fortegunners are best all around for this mission / Ex-Mission.

[Konstanse_Xx]

I'm a Newman Wartecher, and you're looking at a class who isn't like best at any mission, do you see us WT's complaining?

Hell, I got booted because they got an fT and an fF and were like "sry we dnt ned u".

But I adapt, that's what you do. I LOVE Fortetechers in my party because it is helpful to have buffs, tech damage(yeah, techs do hurt, not as much though, pooo. Do you see Fortefighters complaining about not being efficient in Grove of Fanatics? Because that mission is SOOO FORTEFIGHTER), hell I am the only techer in my group a lot of the time, and I remember getting a 10 partying with a XXXXtecher only party on A Rank(1 WT 1 GT 2 fT's).

This is like one of the only missions fT's can't be great in...