Masterclasses Weapon Selection

[Rayokarna]

Before you start flamming me for making rumors before any offical word about this subject, I have had no information about it. Im just using all of the facts of previous classes, playing styles, class description on the class and NPC behaviour to make an 'educated' guess on their weapon selection. (All 13*+ Weapons will be abrivated as S2)

FighMaster (FM) (Skills 50/Bullet 30/Support Tech 20/Offence Tech 30) Fortefighter/Wartecher/Fighgunner all at level 20.
Can use all basic traps with Burn, Posion and Damage G traps.

Notes: Exreamly High-Off the chart high ATP modfier. (Beasts get a Race Bonus)
Extreamly High DFP modifier
Low ATA modifier
Mid-High TP modifier.
Low EVP modifier. (Newmans & Humans get a high Race Bonus)

Spear: S2
Sword: S2
Single Saber: S2
Twin Saber: S2
Double Saber: S2
Knuckles: S2
Single Claw: S2
Twin Claw: S2
Axe: S2
Single Dagger: S2
Twin Daggers: S2
Slicers: S2
Rifle: N/A
Shotgun: A
Laser Cannon: N/A
Grenade Launcher: N/A
Mechgun: S
Handgun: S
Twin Handgun: S
Crossbow: S
Long Bow: N/A
Shadoogs: N/A
Madoogs: N/A
Whips: A
Staff: N/A
Wand: A
Card: N/A

GunMaster (GM) (Skills 40/Bullet 50/Support Tech 30/Offence Tech 20) Fortegunner/Guntecher/Fighgunner all at level 20.
Can use all traps except EX Traps
Notes: High ATP modifier
Low DFP Modifier (Cast & Beast get a Race bonus)
Extreamly High ATA modifier (Cast & Beast get a Race bonus)
Low-Mid TP Modifier
Mid EVP Modifier (Newmans get a Race Bonus)

Spear: S
Sword: N/A
Single Saber: S
Twin Saber: N/A
Double Saber: S
Knuckles: S
Single Claw: A
Twin Claw: A
Axe: N/A
Single Dagger: S
Twin Daggers: N/A
Slicers: A
Rifle: S2
Shotgun: S2
Laser Cannon: S2
Grenade Launcher: S2
Mechgun: S2
Handgun: S2
Twin Handgun: S2
Crossbow: S2
Long Bow: S
Shadoogs: S2
Madoogs: A
Whips: N/A
Staff: N/A
Wand: A
Card: S

MasterForce (MF) (Skills 20/Bullet 30/Support Tech 50/Offence Tech 50) Fortetecher/Wartecher/Guntecher all at level 20.
Notes: Low ATP modifier
Low DFP Modifier (Casts and Beasts get a Race Bonus)
Mid ATA modifier (Casts get a Race bonus)
Uber High-Off the chart high TP Modifier
High EVP Modifier (Casts & Beasts get a Race decrease)

Spear: S
Sword: N/A
Single Saber: S
Twin Saber: N/A
Double Saber: N/A
Knuckles: N/A
Single Claw: S
Twin Claw: S
Axe: N/A
Single Dagger: S2
Twin Daggers: S2
Slicers: A
Rifle: N/A
Shotgun: N/A
Laser Cannon: N/A
Grenade Launcher: N/A
Mechgun: A
Handgun: S
Twin Handgun: S
Crossbow: S
Long Bow: S2
Shadoogs: S
Madoogs: S2
Whips: S2
Staff: S2
Wand: S2
Card: S2

AcroMaster (AM) (Skills 40/Bullet 50/Support Tech 20/Offence Tech 20) Acrofighter/Acrotecher/Protranser level 20
All traps are available
Notes: Higher Trap Modifier (Allows extra damage per SE tick, Allows movement effect on some EX traps (knockback, launch and so on...)
High ATP Modifier
Mid DFP Modifier
High ATA Modifer
Mid TP Modifier
High EVP Modifier

Spear: S2
Sword: S
Single Saber: S2
Twin Saber: A
Double Saber: S
Knuckles: S
Single Claw: S
Twin Claw: N/A
Axe: S
Single Dagger: S
Twin Daggers: N/A
Slicers: S2
Rifle: N/A
Shotgun: S
Laser Cannon: S2
Grenade Launcher: S2
Mechgun: A
Handgun: S2
Twin Handgun: S
Crossbow: A
Long Bow: S2
Shadoogs: S2
Madoogs: S2
Whips: S2
Staff: N/A
Wand: S
Card: S

Just my 2 Mesta. Hope you enjoyed reading http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

EDIT: I forgot to put the level requirment.
2nd EDIT: All class notes and TP modifiers http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif
Final EDIT: Missed out spear...


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rayokarna on 2007-11-03 16:04 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rayokarna on 2007-11-03 16:36 ]</font>

[DanMalak]

I dont think every master class will get technics...

[HFlowen]

13* and up weapons are still classified as "S"

Otherwise.. interesting theory?

[-Tidus_415-]

I remember seeing a real FighMaster weapon selection picture when it was 1st discovered and it was funny...They didnt even get double sabers. Only Gunmasters. lol...

[Zael]

Oh god no. If they turn out anything near as ridiculous as that, PSU is going to suck.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zael on 2007-11-03 14:37 ]</font>

[Rayokarna]

On 2007-11-03 14:37, Zael wrote:
Oh god no. If they turn out anything near as ridiculous as that, PSU is going to suck.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zael on 2007-11-03 14:37 ]</font>


The reason I think they will come out like that, is because the fact that you have mastered multiple classes to reach the Masterclasses. They will give you alot of room to give to your own playing style. But on top of that, the stat modifers will be exreamly high in your strengths and just able to make the grade for the secondary weapons of the class.

[Remedy]

I swear to god

If that Masterforce entry is right, I will love you for all days.

That's like a small, glimmering light of hope for me, now. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Gryffin]

On 2007-11-03 14:41, Remedy wrote:
I swear to god

If that Masterforce entry is right, I will love you for all days.

That's like a small, glimmering light of hope for me, now. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



Yeah, I agreeeeeee.. S2 in Whips, Single Daggers, AND Double Daggers... onyl way it could get better is 30 in melee.. Oh yeah, spells are nice too. ><

[HFlowen]

On 2007-11-03 14:45, -Tidus_415- wrote:
I hope masterclasses have shitty stats but great weapon selection.

Protranser?

[-Tidus_415-]

I hope masterclasses have shitty stats but great weapon selection.

[Zael]

The reason I think they will come out like that, is because the fact that you have mastered multiple classes to reach the Masterclasses.
You're stating that as a fact before knowing how those said classes even work.

I'm quite serious. If master classes turn out to be how everyone's speculating them to be, PSU will turn out to be a massive disappointment.

[buzyb77]

On 2007-11-03 14:41, Remedy wrote:
I swear to god

If that Masterforce entry is right, I will love you for all days.

That's like a small, glimmering light of hope for me, now. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



if master Force Techs trun out that way....well FT/AT argurement will be a dead point...it wil be more like this

Hey noob whay are you still a AT/F/FT you need to hurry up and Be a MF young padwan...I mean Force...

[HFlowen]

Have the requirements for masterclasses even been discovered yet? I'll lol if they are just more classes and not based on maxing other advanced types.

[Zael]

I'd be glad if that's the case, and they're balanced with the 9 existing expert types. Replacing the endgame with a measly variety of four types (compared to nine) has got to be the fucking stupidest idea ever.

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-03 14:43, Gryffin wrote:
Yeah, I agreeeeeee.. S2 in Whips, Single Daggers, AND Double Daggers... onyl way it could get better is 30 in melee.. Oh yeah, spells are nice too. ><I couldn't care less about that (okay, I lied, I would LOVE to be able to do Yoyo Daggers on Remedy), all I saw was:

Masterforce
(Support 50/Attack 50)

and swooned on the spot.

[Rayokarna]

On 2007-11-03 14:46, Zael wrote:

The reason I think they will come out like that, is because the fact that you have mastered multiple classes to reach the Masterclasses.
You're stating that as a fact before knowing how those said classes even work.

I'm quite serious. If master classes turn out to be how everyone's speculating them to be, PSU will turn out to be a massive disappointment.



I start with 'I think' ok. *sigh*

It was just a theory, you don't have to take it seriously http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Zael]

You thought something based on something that you stated as a fact. You said that it's a fact that you have to master multiple classes to reach them.

Source?

[Rayokarna]

On 2007-11-03 14:51, Zael wrote:
You thought something based on something that you stated as a fact. You said that it's a fact that you have to master multiple classes to reach them.

Source?



I based my theory off, offline classes, current lasses, NPC behavour and weapon selection and class discrpition. I think it's a theory that they will need the maxed out classes of three advanced classes.

Maybe I just worded it wrong for you to read, but as I said before, it's an 'educated' guess >.>

[Tamashi]

I don't even think Protranser has 15 weapons, let alone 25+.

[ShadowDragon28]

FighMaster = HUmar/HUnewrl/HUnewm/RAcaseal
GunMaster = RAmar/RAmarl/RAcast
MasterForce= FOmar/FOnewerl/FOnewm

Hm..might be interesting and fun..*shrugs*

IMB4 "OMGZ! PSUIZBECOMINGPSO!!! GAWDAMITSH!T!" >_> LOL



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ShadowDragon28 on 2007-11-03 15:03 ]</font>

[-Tidus_415-]

On 2007-11-03 14:45, HFlowen wrote:

On 2007-11-03 14:45, -Tidus_415- wrote:
I hope masterclasses have shitty stats but great weapon selection.

Protranser?



Yeah like that but instead of a little mix from the basic classes they should just be a toned down Forte with more S-rank weapons.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Tidus_415- on 2007-11-03 15:09 ]</font>

[Rayokarna]

On 2007-11-03 15:02, ShadowDragon28 wrote:
IMB4 "OMGZ! PSUIZBECOMINGPSO!!! GAWDAMITSH!T!" >_> LOL



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ShadowDragon28 on 2007-11-03 15:03 ]</font>


There is a way to counter that. 'In theory', for example you can have a MasterForce (1), (2) and (3). And in itself, the different number can count as different classes, but the stat modifer is different for each number, but keeping the ability peramiters and weapon selection the same reguardless of what number is choosen...

[ShadowDragon28]

Um I was joking about ppl that over-react about things from PSO being put into PSU... lol

But I do think that the "Master" classes *could* wind up being be very similar to the classes in PSO....

[F-Gattaca]

What will be funny is if these master classes actually get implemented but they are not the "i win buttons" everyone is expecting (at least from reading the responses to this thread).

Actually, I feel sorry for SEGA either way, because now that people know these types exist, anything they do with them (or don't do with them) that isn't the equivalent of God Mode is going to piss off the players.

[AerisZeal]

On 2007-11-03 14:43, Gryffin wrote:
Yeah, I agreeeeeee.. S2 in Whips, Single Daggers, AND Double Daggers... onyl way it could get better is 30 in melee.. Oh yeah, spells are nice too. ><


That's great and all but I'll have to agree...


On 2007-11-03 14:36, HFlowen wrote:
13* and up weapons are still classified as "S"

Otherwise.. interesting theory?


Only I'll applaud you more for even making a theory, well done. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Zael]

On 2007-11-03 15:17, F-Gattaca wrote:
What will be funny is if these master classes actually get implemented but they are not the "i win buttons" everyone is expecting (at least from reading the responses to this thread).

Actually, I feel sorry for SEGA either way, because now that people know these types exist, anything they do with them (or don't do with them) that isn't the equivalent of God Mode is going to piss off the players.




Not me. That'll make me very happy infact.

[Remedy]

Again, this is the only part of this topic that I read or care about:


On 2007-11-03 14:31, Rayokarna wrote:
MasterForce (MF) (Support Tech 50/Offence Tech 50)
Staff: S2

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Edit: Forgot that I cared about S2 Rods, too http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Remedy on 2007-11-03 15:26 ]</font>

[Rayokarna]

Heh, If Sega EVER immmplimented the Masterclasses like this, people would go through hell and back to fully max the advance class requirments. Then they will get upset when their stats fall like a rock off a cliff. I guess it would take a hell alot of work. Heh, Race/M.Class/M.Class number combo will work, and will more suited to how YOU play while using more of YOUR favourite weapons.

But then again, you see someone spamming Tornado Dance and you dont know what class to complain about on first sight. XD.

And yes I think it's getting closer to PSO, but as long a PT can use Axes, GL and L. Cannons and bring AOI to the EU, I dont really care what Sega to be honest...

[-Ryuki-]

I'm actually one of the several who are anti-Master classes. I don't approve of them, and I'm not sure I'll be happy if they DO/WILL exist.

[omegapirate2k]

I'm still waiting for an official word before I make any judgment on them.

[Shou]

Is it confirmed that they will be classes above the advanced classes we have now or could there be a chance that they are not?

example: acrogunner.

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-03 16:43, RyukiZero wrote:
I'm actually one of the several who are anti-Master classes. I don't approve of them, and I'm not sure I'll be happy if they DO/WILL exist.Right, because techers should get shafted into one of two roles, I suppose? :eyeroll:

[Mystil]

On 2007-11-03 16:43, RyukiZero wrote:
I'm actually one of the several who are anti-Master classes. I don't approve of them, and I'm not sure I'll be happy if they DO/WILL exist.


Masterclasses seem redundant to me.

I wont care either way because I'll be a FF til the game dies(or I quit for good).

[F-Gattaca]

On 2007-11-03 17:20, Remedy wrote:

On 2007-11-03 16:43, RyukiZero wrote:
I'm actually one of the several who are anti-Master classes. I don't approve of them, and I'm not sure I'll be happy if they DO/WILL exist.Right, because techers should get shafted into one of two roles, I suppose? :eyeroll:



No, because everyone's expecting them to be the be-all end-all of a given combat division.

I'm a gunner who's maxed FI, FG, and GT just so I can take advantage of specific perks and abilities in each type, and even I don't want to see some ubergunner class that makes all three obsolete.

So if these master classes actually do get implemented I hope it's in such a way that only adds diversity and gives more options to players, not take them away.

[Remedy]

How are they redundant? It's the HU, FO, and RA of old, with AM added in as a wildcard for trapping.

[F-Gattaca]

Not exactly. The race/gender/type combinations of PSO created, in effect, more than just three classes since each had their own limitations and strengths, both in usable weapons and abilities.

PSU's Expert types were the closest thing that came to that system--if they're supplanted by superman types, you lose that diversity.

[Remedy]

The only differences in usable weapons that the races had was FOnewearls not being able to use the Excalibur because our max ATP was lolstupid - and Dual Birds, if you want to talk of JP PSO:BB, only HUcaseals could use that, since only they had enough ATA for it among Hunter. Only other thing I can think of is Holy Ray, but that's a nonissue in PSU since everyone has TP.

I don't see it to be that different from PSO's classes at all.

Edit: PSO:BB, not PSU.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Remedy on 2007-11-03 17:48 ]</font>

[Mystil]

That's sorta answered in F-Gattaca's post.

But thats is how I see it for now. This could all changed when official info comes up.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mystil on 2007-11-03 17:49 ]</font>

[Hokokaru]

Ohhhh man its gonna suck if there is Master classes XD I can just see all the people getting booted for not being a 1337 class.....

[Rashiid]

'Lv 250 LFP MASTER CLASSED ONLY!' 'FORTE= BOOT!'

[mizukage]

There might be a small possibility that the online master classes would be similar to the classical classes in the offline. Generally, the fighmaster will get every single S-rank melee weapons, gunmaster will get every single S-rank projectile weapon with the exception of the slicer which is actually a ranged melee weapon. Masterforce will get S-rank staffs, rods, madoogs, and possibly shadoogs as well. This is just a guess.

[Rizen]

Like Ryuki, I'm not 100% sure Im for Master classes. Something tells me when/if they are implemented, theres going to be alot less diversity among classes in the population. But heh, its already like that in a way. And Im pretty sure there are plenty of people who want something like this to have everything they want in one class. =/

[Hokokaru]

On 2007-11-03 19:12, Rashiid wrote:
'Lv 250 LFP MASTER CLASSED ONLY!' 'FORTE= BOOT!'


lol exacly what i had in mind XD

[Dein]

January - March of 2008

* One new chapter of Episode 3 will be released each month.
* New party missions will be added.
* Three new battle types will be added. (The site doesn't say which ones, but I'm willing to bet it will be Fighmaster, Gunmaster and Masterforce. )
* Level cap wil be increased to 140.
* New fields, free missions and drops will be added.
* New clothes, parts and Casino Volyale items will be added.
* The New Year, snow, Valentine and White Day lobbies will be seen across these months.
* Even more new partner machines will be added.
* Other move tickets to allow you to move your room to one of the planets will be added.
* The Dengeki Cup (name not final) will begin. Remember that post I made a while back where the staff of Dengeki PlayStation were taking ideas for a big event? Well, this will be just that. So far, no other details have been revealed.
Taken from a thread posted by Espio when he translated a projected update schedule that ST put out for the JP ver of PSU. Put two things together, the fact that master classes do exist (in an incomplete form) in the offline data for AotI and the fact that ST said themselves they'll be releasing 3 new types, and that should be your answer to whether or not the master classes do exist.

As for the OP's theory, I'd say you're mostly correct about their weapon selection. I honestly think ST will make the master types require 2 classes each: Fighmaster= Fortefighter and Fighgunner, Gunmaster= Guntecher and Fortegunner, and Forcemaster= Fortetecher and Wartecher, and that the weapon selection for the master types will come out to be the combined selection of their required types.

[Remedy]

Honestly, I see Masterforce being FT and AT (or FT/AT/GT) more than anything.

[ALC]

So if these master types are implemented as higher levels over the advanced types, I don't really see what the problem is.

The current types really don't have much diversity, anyway. Yeah, some different stats and different weapon specialties... but that's it. It's not like each type really has any unique ability.

Here's an example of what I mean: Say that beasts and casts no longer had their respective nanoblasts or SUVs. Instead, these abilities would be determined by type. So a fortefighter, no matter what the race, could use a nanoblast; a fortegunner could use SUVs; and perhaps fortetechers would have some sort of super nuke spell. I can't really come up with any creative ideas for the other types, but you get what I mean.

Look at other online games, like WoW. There are currently 9 classes, and each one is very distinct. They each have their own abilities/spells/attacks/roles/whatever. Even their own equipment that can only be used by that class (at least in the end game), which allows you to look at a character and you can immediately tell what class they are.

In this game, that's not so. My main is a fighgunner. I rarely use my double saber. I was on like my 10th or so run with whom is currently my best PSU friend, and I whipped out my double saber for something. He said, "Whoa," and I asked him what happened. He says, "You're a fighgunner!? I thought you were a fortefighter."

The types are so similar in this game, many times you can't tell right away what type a person is.

As has been stated several times, the only info we have on these new types is their names. We don't know anything about what the requirements to reach them are, what their stats will be like, what weapons they'll be able to use (and to what extent), or if they'll have any special abilities. So at this point in time, I can't really say how I feel about them, but I won't be upset if it makes the advanced classes obsolete. I have 4 characters. I've already decided what type each one will be if/when these get implemented and if they're what I'm expecting them to be like.

[Chuck_Norris]

You're stupid. These are the weapons master classes get. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f369/Akukame/Masters02.jpg

[DanMalak]

On 2007-11-03 21:01, chuck_norris wrote:
You're stupid. These are the weapons master classes get. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f369/Akukame/Masters02.jpg



That's not even funny >.>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I'm with Zael and Ryuki here, I'm not a big fan of these Master classes unless they're on the same tier of the 9 existing classes.

[Rizen]

On 2007-11-03 21:04, DanMalak wrote:
That's not even funny >.>

Thats data that Itsuki pulled from the client. Of course, you can see it needs some balancing and more than likely not complete.

Also, to add to my comment earlier, these master classes seem like its verging into PSO type characters again from the sounds of it.

[Syl]

Hm, maybe if they restricted the use of masterclasses to certain missions or mission types? Otherwise it would be totally broken and pointless to even have other classes, even if their stats sucked. And the justification of having to cap jobs isn't really anything. MP is pretty easy to come by =/

But yeah, not enough info to be able to make any judgements or even predictions.

[Rayokarna]

Looking at that chart, Acromaster owns everything XD.

On a serious note, I think 3/5 of the community will complain 3 to 5 months until they notice they can use there second favourite weapon which is exactly tied to there Masterclass fighting style. What also effected my 'theory' is the use of specific classes in different areas. For example, a Fortefighter in GoF, not a very fun time hes gonna have. But if you gave him tech to an extent (Like WT), he'll be able to solo as less of a problem. I just think that its a bit unfair to be that some classes can't solo some missions because the enemy is tech resistant or bullet resistant or melee resistant. In a way, it gives each master class it own way of dealing with a situation while handing them the tools to do so.

Im sure they wont come out like that anyway so there is nothing to worry about really...

[Schubalts]

That chart is funny because MasterForce gets zero rods and bows http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[zandra117]

lol I cant wait to see the first gunmaster in the lobby and yell "OMG its a GM!!1!1"

[mvffin]

lol, from the chart it says acro master can use axes, rods, and rifles. but master force can't use rods.

IMO, the master classes should be more focused on their specialty, and have a decent option for resistant enemies, but still be somewhat balanced compared to the current classes.

example:

Fighmaster
S: Axes, Sword, Spear, Double Saber, Knuckle
A: Saber, Dagger, Claw, Madoog, Shadoog, Handgun, Whip
50 melee, 20 Bullet, 20 Support, 20 Atk Tech

Gunmaster
S: Rifle, Laser, Grenade, Shotgun
A: Xbow, Mechgun, Handgun, Wand, Saber, Dagger, Card
20 melee, 50 Bullet, 20 Support, 20 Atk Tech

Masterforce
S: Wand, Rod, Madoog
A: Bow, Card, Whip, Saber, Dagger, Handgun
20 Melee, 20 Bullet, 50 Support, 50 Atk Tech

Acromaster
S: Saber, Dagger, Madoog, Shadoog
A: Claw, Card, Whip, Handgun, Mechgun, Wand
30 Melee, 30 Bullet, 30 Support, 30 Atk Tech

[Krisan]

On 2007-11-03 23:59, Schubalts wrote:
That chart is funny because MasterForce gets zero rods and bows http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


Honestly, most well equipped forces I have met do a lot more DPS using wands than rods anyway.. And the loss of the bow isn't even an issue when they get freaking rifles, slicers, and whips in its place.. I mean, sheesh, it seems like a damned good trade off to me.

That said though.. Fighmaster strikes me the strangest in that list.. They have access to practically nothing compared to the other three master classes there, seems to me like they ended up trading off weapon rights in return for the use of technics.. (which I suppose, is fair in a sense, but being a "master of fighting" I kind of can't help but find it a tad odd too.)

And Acromaster.. yea, that's just nuts. They have access to everything but five weapons, three of which are one-handers.. And to be honest, who would give a hoot about losing a measly saber or the like anyway? Only two weapons they don't get that might have suited them is the single dagger and maybe the whip.. Their C in shotguns is laughable though, don't see why they'd even bother there..

And yes, yes.. I know this is all subject to "change" later on, but let's all not kid ourselves too much.. Sega isn't exactly known for its brilliant track record or anything.. Chances are what we see there is more or less what they'll be when they hit online mode. (Sega pretty much built PSU not with the idea of expansion and improvement but with the concept of unlocking content they built in advance.. this probably won't get revised too much, if at all.)

[Gryffin]

On 2007-11-04 01:28, mvffin wrote:
lol, from the chart it says acro master can use axes, rods, and rifles. but master force can't use rods.

IMO, the master classes should be more focused on their specialty, and have a decent option for resistant enemies, but still be somewhat balanced compared to the current classes.

example:

Fighmaster
S: Axes, Sword, Spear, Double Saber, Knuckle
A: Saber, Dagger, Claw, Madoog, Shadoog, Handgun, Whip
50 melee, 20 Bullet, 20 Support, 20 Atk Tech

Gunmaster
S: Rifle, Laser, Grenade, Shotgun
A: Xbow, Mechgun, Handgun, Wand, Saber, Dagger, Card
20 melee, 50 Bullet, 20 Support, 20 Atk Tech

Masterforce
S: Wand, Rod, Madoog
A: Bow, Card, Whip, Saber, Dagger, Handgun
20 Melee, 20 Bullet, 50 Support, 50 Atk Tech

Acromaster
S: Saber, Dagger, Madoog, Shadoog
A: Claw, Card, Whip, Handgun, Mechgun, Wand
30 Melee, 30 Bullet, 30 Support, 30 Atk Tech



ONly problem with this is that every weapons isn't represented in S form for a master class...

[Shishi-O]

the idea of the guardians mastering their abilities in each major job class is a godsend. Having to switch to a slightly different job to use differing s-ranked weps is a major pain in the ass.

Eg hyper viper and gur bazga

[Remedy]

Techers having to switch to a different job just to do the two elements of being a good Force that should ideally go hand in hand is also a major pain in the ass.

Masterforce cannot come soon enough.

[BigBadWolf]

You guys are just taking this WAY too seriously.

Creating two new classes in AoI and then creating another set of classes to make them obsolete is just bad programming.

[Dragwind]

That's just too rigged. What would be the point of the rest of the classes? -at original post.

[Remedy]

Requirements for the Master classes. It seems like a normal progression to me, honestly. *shrug*

[Golto]

I'll say this again expert types made the basic types pointless. So why shouldn't master types make expert types pointless? There isn't as much diversity of types on NA/EU pc/ps2 anyways. So instead of 4 expert types being over 80% of the population we'll have 4 master types being 80%.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Golto on 2007-11-04 06:16 ]</font>

[Schubalts]

Because going from 3 to 9 to 4 types makes no sense, seeing as the expert types are meant to make sure that everyone isn't playing the same type?

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I'm in full agreement of Schubalts, 9 classes to 4 is really lame.

[CelestialBlade]

Saying "well there isn't much diversity anyway hurr" isn't justification, if anything that should mean Sega should take another look at the HYBRID classes, not the Forte ones. People play Hybrid classes, that's enough of a reason not to outright phase them out. I know of NO other MMO that actually reduces the amount of choices you get as you ascend, that's just dumb.

I really hope Fighmaster doesn't get a single Ranged weapon, Gunmaster can't melee or cast technics worth shit and Masterforce caps at 500 HP. That's about the only way this won't be broken all to hell. And don't get me started on Acromaster.

[-Tidus_415-]

I just switched from Fighgunner to Wartecher for a reason. Fuck masterclasses.

[New_One]

Will there even be an Acromaster class?

[physic]

maybe theres more hidden class data, or they can add it online easily, but its still a problem if they release it seperately cause then you ll just have everyone abandon a class later.

another possibility is, the master classes are a modifier, ie fighmaster wartecher. etc

well i guess we ll soon see what they really had planned.

[MaximusLight]

A lot of people have been talking about what these will be lately. And I just wanted you to know that here's an offfical pick of a class that's above the experts (some of you might remember me saying this before well HA! maybe someone will listen now :'()

http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/6460/3964/1600/959654/A4.jpg

[DUN]

Wait that might be acrofighter its a higher class in aoi.

[MaximusLight]

On 2007-11-04 09:52, DUN wrote:
Wait that might be acrofighter its a higher class in aoi.



Take another look, ALL malee weapons are at S rank

[HFlowen]

Why aren't Whips/slicers/madoogs/shadoogs listed on the weapons list?

That looks like a basic PSU picture.

[MaximusLight]

On 2007-11-04 09:53, HFlowen wrote:
Why aren't Whips/slicers/madoogs/shadoogs listed on the weapons list?

That looks like a basic PSU picture.



This picture was release before the expansion was known, so they aren't inclued.

[MaximusLight]

To clarify, this is the picture that the offical PSU blog released in Dec. 5,06 to demonstrate the progression of types.

Here's the link:
http://www.psusega.blogspot.com/

[ALC]

Saying "hurr" really makes someone sound intelligent. Really.

Simplifying the number of types can bring some balance to the game.

[physic]

that makes it look like ff part 2. which is a small difference weapon selection wise. also looks like it has lower dfp, maybe its a pure attacker class. sacrifice defense and evasion for more weapon classes. that is a sort of balancing i suppose. Still i doubt you ll see many fortefighters after that class is out. if in fact it stays or is that way.

Also it would suggest possibly something similar for masterforceand gunmaster. of course masterforce could take a drop in tp for the weapons who can say.

[Shiryuu]

Hmm... who ever said master classes will be coming out? It could be just the pso classes to match the outfits/hairstyles available. :/

[Dragwind]

Figures people would be getting all emo and touchy about these classes.

[Mystil]

You can't blame said 'emo' people for being attached to a class they've been with since it was introduced either.

[physic]

st said they will bringing these out in jp aoi in thier future info releases, to be exact, they said they would be bringing out 3 new classes, they didnt say which

[Zorak000]

I like the Idea of master classes. why?
axe + double saber = WIN
Desta + hyper viper = WIN
50 attack TECH + 50 support tech = WIN
crazy acroness = WIN

it gives players the freedom to use whatever weapons they want (within the guidelines of melee, range, and TECH, of course) without feeling limited to only certain wepons or fell shafted that your ATP stinks 'cause you wanted to use a Cubo Musrana.

[majan]

this could surely be the silliest thread I have ever seen.this went from one persons idea to the fabrication of 500 million ideas,which is coolwith me cus I know to be patient and wait on the information to be leaked out from the real psu sources but new players and people who dont know better are going to go around and spread massive amounts of rumors,and its going to be rather annoying.it will be like when before AoI info was as concrete as it was now.everybody thought transers would get wands......they arent.

this master class idea has been blown entirely too out of proportion and probably isnt going to be anything like what were talking about here.

edit:god I hate to be a killjoy but I think were getting a little out of hand with the amount of info we actually DONT have.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: majan on 2007-11-04 13:10 ]</font>

[Sylpheed]

As long as theres eventually a class that can use S rank shotty and S rank twin handguns in one class then ill be happy as for everything else i couldnt give a shit.

[Reipard]

Hmm... who ever said master classes will be coming out? It could be just the pso classes to match the outfits/hairstyles available. :/

Expert types were found in the offline data before release similarly. THere is a 99.9% chance that these new types Sega announced for release are indeed, the Master types.

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-11-04 13:08, majan wrote:
this master class idea has been blown entirely too out of proportion and probably isnt going to be anything like what were talking about here.

I really, really hope you're right.

[F-Gattaca]

On 2007-11-04 13:39, Typheros wrote:

On 2007-11-04 13:08, majan wrote:
this master class idea has been blown entirely too out of proportion and probably isnt going to be anything like what were talking about here.

I really, really hope you're right.


Seconded.

I don't like the idea of master types with 50s in all PA levels and S-ranks in everything.


On 2007-11-03 20:52, ALC wrote:
The current types really don't have much diversity, anyway. Yeah, some different stats and different weapon specialties... but that's it. It's not like each type really has any unique ability.


A CHALLENGER APPROACHES!


Look at other online games, like WoW. There are currently 9 classes, and each one is very distinct. They each have their own abilities/spells/attacks/roles/whatever. Even their own equipment that can only be used by that class (at least in the end game), which allows you to look at a character and you can immediately tell what class they are.

The types are so similar in this game, many times you can't tell right away what type a person is.

Even though PSU and WoW are both MMORPGs, they take entirely different approaches to the genre. Attempting to use WoW and other MMOs like it to judge whether PSU's type system is a legitimate class system that won't be missed if master types are added is more than a bit problematic.

The nature of PSU requires more active participation in combat by the player than WoW. WoW is more point-and-click, PSU is more like an action-adventure RPG (kinda like ... dare I say it ... Zelda?). By that nature, it's easier for games like WoW to have specific classes with a palette of skills and spells that largely replace what PSU players have to do "by hand."

Removing the skills layer, we're left with usable equipment and stats. I suspect part of your assumption that PSU's types are hardly as diverse as WoW's classes stems from the fact that the appearance of Guardians in PSU isn't dictated by their armor. Type-specific equipment does exist in PSU, but much of it is restricted by basic type divison rather than expert/hybrid/experimental types, though I can count three line shields exclusive to those. AotI may bring even more into the mix.


In this game, that's not so. My main is a fighgunner. I rarely use my double saber. I was on like my 10th or so run with whom is currently my best PSU friend, and I whipped out my double saber for something. He said, "Whoa," and I asked him what happened. He says, "You're a fighgunner!? I thought you were a fortefighter."

So basically, you're concluding that all the current types hold no value and PSU won't lose any diversity if Master types supplant them, because people can choose to use equipment that are not unique to their type.

Were it so easy.

Overlap can happen in WoW too. As far as I understand from speaking with WoW players (and my own free trial experience), there is much overlap between equipment there, probably as much over there as here in PSU. I've also been told that WoW players don't necessarily wear their class-specific end-game tiered armor; they wear mixtures of armor to do whatever job is at hand, and I would assume that general or multiclass equipment is part of that.

Were it not for the nature of WoW and the whole skill issue, I'd bet it would be entirely possible to fool players into thinking someone is not the class they really are.

Hell, come to think of it, me and my buddy Tristan could have pulled it off with my Warrior and his Paladin, so long as we avoided skill use apart from what is common. We could've made it hard to discern which was which for a while, I'm sure.

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-11-04 14:24, F-Gattaca wrote:
Overlap can happen in WoW too. As far as I understand from speaking with WoW players (and my own free trial experience), there is much overlap between equipment there, probably as much over there as here in PSU. I've also been told that WoW players don't necessarily wear their class-specific end-game tiered armor; they wear mixtures of armor to do whatever job is at hand, and I would assume that general or multiclass equipment is part of that.

Were it not for the nature of WoW and the whole skill issue, I'd bet it would be entirely possible to fool players into thinking someone is not the class they really are.

Hell, come to think of it, me and my buddy Tristan could have pulled it off with my Warrior and his Paladin, so long as we avoided skill use apart from what is common. We could've made it hard to discern which was which for a while, I'm sure.

This is equally true in Everquest II and other online games. What continually gets me is all these "flaws" being pointed out in PSU that exist in any other game, yet they're much better somehow.

But I will admit, whether these new classes announced by Sega are broken or not, all we can do is wait and see. I just really hope my current predictions are all wrong.

[majan]

On 2007-11-04 13:39, Typheros wrote:

On 2007-11-04 13:08, majan wrote:
this master class idea has been blown entirely too out of proportion and probably isnt going to be anything like what were talking about here.

I really, really hope you're right.



I'll personaly be pretty surprsied if its anything like what's been suggested in this thread.ESPECIALLY consdierign that acromasters get S rods instead of masterforces.

its hardly plausible that a "fighmaster" can use all of those things that dont even remotely involve melee,which is what a fortefighter excels at best.it wouldnt make any sense if the upgrade of a fortefighter wasnt a vertical one(better stats and seleciton geared towards melee combat) but a horizontal one(wider seleciton,making them less of a fighter.)

my guess is that all it will be is better stats,and level 50 PA caps and not a whole lot else,at least nothing as gameplay-changing as what's been brought into this thread.a fortefighter upgrading to fighmaster woudlnt be very exciting now would it-a fortefighter is a fortefighter for a reason,becasue he doesnt want to be bothered using technics and bullets.so,if you choose fighmaster,you get it all anyway.now a fighmaster would benefit from massive amounts more hp,more atp,and better ATA to connect with the last shot of anga redda(now for 4500 damage,not 1700).maybe a littel exaggeration there but that may be the kind of thing we can think about expecting.

as with fighmaster,masterFORCE and masterGUNNER sounds more like 2 classes that will respectively be expected to use technics and bullets better than everybody else,not becoming able to use other stuff instead.it's hardly plausible,but sonic team is capable of anything.

fighmaster=the new and improved fortefighter that will be THE elite in melee damage.period.
mastergunner=the new improved fortegunner that will be THE elite in using GUNS.period.
masterforce=the new and improved fortetecher that will be THE elite in using TECHNICS.period.
acromaster,if it exists=the combination of the current hybrids,guntecher,fighgunner,and wartecher,perhaps pretty good melee damage complemented by decent ATA to use a small seleciton of guns,along with the ability to use low-level technics.

based purely on logic,thats wat I came up with.we'll have to wait and see whose right and wrong but I do not see the expansion of master classes going in the direction of versatility.rather,as the title of these classes would suggest,theyll be masters of one thing only,without a hell of a lot more versatility on top of what weve seen already in the game.

[Golto]

I doubt Fighmaster will really have that good of a selection of ranged weapons. They just took the Figh to be short for Fighter.

PS its GunMaster not MsterGunner http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Zael]

On 2007-11-04 13:39, Typheros wrote:

On 2007-11-04 13:08, majan wrote:
this master class idea has been blown entirely too out of proportion and probably isnt going to be anything like what were talking about here.

I really, really hope you're right.


Same.

[ThEoRy]

AcroMaster hmmm, they would be the "masters" of one handed weapons no? Then why the hell would they be able to use rods? This is all bs and speculation about something that is way too far off to be considered solid. Remember how AcroTechers had lvl 50 support and twin daggers? Yeah..... about that.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ThEoRy on 2007-11-04 16:01 ]</font>

[Rayokarna]

I know this is adding some fuel to the fire but I thought it was an interesting point...

I suppose that most will complain about the classes and their 'broken-ness' until they find something they love about the class(Using my theory). For example, Fighmaster being able to use Double Sabers, Twin Handgun, Crossbow, Axe and a Wand. Maybe you think it's broken at first but somewhere down the line your gonna use them. Then you will get so used to it, that it will become normal for you to use. Now Fighmaster class might get the nerfing bat and you will lose the Wand and the Twin Handgun. Then the complain and ranting will return.

Well maybe Im wrong, but the simple point im trying to get across is; if you don't like it, don't use it. If it's to broken to handle, go back to your signature Advance class because in the end, it's all about how YOU play. It's not like anybody else pays for your account.

[ALC]

F-Gattaca, the only way you could've hidden your classes from other people is if you used *no* skills. Basically, if you just right-clicked the enemy and auto-attacked... but that's ridiculous. I played WoW for a long time (much too long). There were no two same skills on separate classes.

As for the equipment, yes, technically everyone could wear cloth armor whereas priests, warlocks, and mages were limited to it. Rogues and druids could wear up to leather armor; hunters and shaman could wear mail; and warriors and paladins could use up to plate, the heaviest of armor. But because of the nature of most classes usually not having more than 2 or 3 possible roles, you usually saw classes in certain equipment. For example, even though druids *could* wear leather armor that made them adept in melee, typically in end game, that type of armor would be saved for rogues. Druids could do decent melee damage, but rogues had far more potential in that department, so it was pretty much a waste to give something like that to a druid instead of a rogue.

Anyway...

What they could do to make the types more diverse in PSU is to make certain skills/bullets/techs type-specific. That would make things very interesting. It would also allow the developers to really bring out a type's role in a party. The only problem is we'd be facing even bigger balance issues.

Heh, I'm not sure if I should even say this, but what the hell? They could even limit the types to certain races. I know some people love their fortefighter newman and stuff, but that is just another possible way to make the types unique. I'm not saying I want it to be that way, either. It's just something that could have been.

As others have stated, we probably don't have anything to worry about. These new types could be completely different from what we're all predicting. I think (hope) we can trust ST. If you look at how the expansion is, you can tell they've really been listening to the players. Perhaps if they did do something most players didn't like, they could simply change it in a later patch.

[Sazan]

On 2007-11-04 09:49, MaximusLight wrote:
A lot of people have been talking about what these will be lately. And I just wanted you to know that here's an offfical pick of a class that's above the experts (some of you might remember me saying this before well HA! maybe someone will listen now :'()

http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/6460/3964/1600/959654/A4.jpg



You can read/guess the name of the class. This was the first version of Fortefighter.

I think master classes should have a limited but distinctive weapon selection, like Lou: Double Saber, Rifle, Rod...


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sazan on 2007-11-04 16:39 ]</font>

[majan]

On 2007-11-04 16:03, Rayokarna wrote:
I know this is adding some fuel to the fire but I thought it was an interesting point...

I suppose that most will complain about the classes and their 'broken-ness' until they find something they love about the class(Using my theory). For example, Fighmaster being able to use Double Sabers, Twin Handgun, Crossbow, Axe and a Wand. Maybe you think it's broken at first but somewhere down the line your gonna use them. Then you will get so used to it, that it will become normal for you to use. Now Fighmaster class might get the nerfing bat and you will lose the Wand and the Twin Handgun. Then the complain and ranting will return.

Well maybe Im wrong, but the simple point im trying to get across is; if you don't like it, don't use it. If it's to broken to handle, go back to your signature Advance class because in the end, it's all about how YOU play. It's not like anybody else pays for your account.



what you are proposing is a crossover class that excels with and has an answer for EVERYTHING in PSU.there are different classes because people either want to play a hybrid class that has more versatility than higher stats and specifications in certain areas of combat,and you pick a pure class to have only specific strengths in one area.FIGHmaster will logically be not as versatile as youre illustrating it to be.FIGH=fighter=melee.a melee "master" class will have kick ass stats that are geared towards melee damage,and kick ass MELEE weapon selection,with the same gun selection a fortefighter probably has now with little to no exaggeration besides maybe a hike of the PA levels.I do not forsee fortefighters as fighmasters having the ability to buff themselves.a beast fighmaster with megid and shifta will be able to solo the ENTIRE game.megid for the machines,and shifta'd melee for the rest,even if its level 10-20 techs or buffs or watever.not even touching on the fact that they can heal themselves,granted for very little,but still.

the master classes you are making will be entirely too self sustaining and IMBA in my opinion.team play will be obsolete unless for 2 reasons,because everyone will be powerful enough to handle themselves(why play in a party when you can solo and get the rares all to yourself?) and there will be no diversity among the classes whatsoever.

in-party scenario:
heck,the beast fighmaster just casted buffs on himself,and consequently every body else.do i as a masterforce want to stop using my level 50 diga that's doing 5400 damage to buff everybody again?...nah.oh shit!that gunmaster just took out a whole line of machines with level 20 megid!couple of less things I have to take out,I guess.woah,Im a fortetecher but I do a lot of damage with these awesome s-rank twin daggers!let me level these up instead of my technics for a while since the party can afford me slacking off a bit.

the only other solution is to have master classes that are actually masters of what the title suggests,and only masters of that.fighmasters doing awesome in melee,gunmasters doing awesome at guns,and techers throwing big balls of fire and rocks at enemies.they wouldnt be masters at it if everybody else had the same abilities,just a lot weaker.and if the other master classes had such weak ablities,why have such shitty alternate options if theyre so weak?

its a novel concept and it would rock in theory but it would piss all over the game and its balance and the fun we have playing it.

piss.all over it.

[Shishi-O]

ft and fg already are soloing, beasts knowing full well the techer won't heal them are relying on trimates anyway.

These are the solo classes. Ya don't like it but ... K check it out, sega tried to fprce teamwork on a bunch of selfish self centered americans, yelling and screaming, they decided they would solo anyway. Bitching about having to rely on others still, sega responded by going full circle, enter le pso solo class, and timed attacks to further solo ability.

Will they b happy?

These classes will be the uber pwnage classes, until lvl200 and the omega classes are released and mags are made available.

[Nyreal]

Solo classes. Ah, they remind me of the cold winter nights I spent curled up next to my computer monitor, with a Gamecube controller in my hand.

To be honest, just give me a world to explore. I'll take my time and view it all alone, if only for the beauty.

[Zorafim]

I just want a class proficient in striking weapons that can use every type of lance and dagger in the game, with a little bit of magic on the side. If I get that, I'll be happy.

custom classes? please?

[mizukage]

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f369/Akukame/Masters02.jpg

My favorites would be Fighmaster and Acromaster. What the....Masterforce can't wield rods???

[Zorafim]

S rank Spear, twin dagger, saber, madoog...
I'll take it!


Lucky that isn't the official list, but I would love those four weapons on the same class.

[Remedy]

Sounds like Fighmaster, actually, Zorafim.

S2-rank Spears, S2-rank Daggers/Twin Daggers, and 20 Offensive/30 Support techs.

[Remedy]

Just ignore that picture - as people have said, that is the garbage data pulled out of the offline information by Itsuki, which is (obviously) wrong. Masterforce + no Rods = lolwut

I'm much more inclined to believe what's in the first post, but as I said - as long as Masterforces get S (or S2) Rods and max support AND offensive techs, I couldn't care less if we didn't get a single other weapon type and 0 bullets/skills.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Its just as silly that Fighmaster, the master fighter is the one class that can't use S rank big swords and twin claws, and that Acromaster can use almost everything BUT single-handed blades. >.>

[amtalx]

Conclusion?

We have to wait becuase none of the existing data makes any sense.

[F-Gattaca]

F-Gattaca, the only way you could've hidden your classes from other people is if you used *no* skills. Basically, if you just right-clicked the enemy and auto-attacked... but that's ridiculous. I played WoW for a long time (much too long). There were no two same skills on separate classes.

My name's F Gattaca; it's only dashed in my username because PSOW doesn't allow for spaces and I hate underscores.

And when I said "skills apart from what is common" I was thinking of, say, fishing in contested or Horde-controlled areas ...

I mean, fishing ain't a Hunter skill.

If me and Tristan had decently leveled characters bred for PVP at the time, the both of us (and anyone else we knew) could've played some mindgames that way, by having multiple classes in a group all wearing the exact same getup, revealing our true natures only when contested.

But, enh, probably already been done.


As others have stated, we probably don't have anything to worry about. These new types could be completely different from what we're all predicting.

That's what I'm hoping for. Though, I have to wonder--people've been saying the data on "master" classes is trash data. What if the names are also trash data and Sega is capable of renaming them for online mode? I don't know if they can do that with how PSU is set up, but it's an interesting thought ...

[Reipard]

The names are just meaningless labels in the database. I doubt they're actually used as anything other than an arbitrary visual identifier. I'm sure if Sega wanted they could rename every single type to Fortefighter for 10 minutes and then back.

[Zorafim]

On 2007-11-05 06:58, Reipard wrote:
I'm sure if Sega wanted they could rename every single type to Fortefighter for 2 weeks and then back.



They wouldn't compromise their precious update schedule for something as minor as a wrong class name. Or, you know, a hack which destroys characters, anything like that.

[LTrav2k]

On 2007-11-04 17:20, majan wrote:
the master classes you are making will be entirely too self sustaining and IMBA in my opinion.team play will be obsolete unless for 2 reasons,because everyone will be powerful enough to handle themselves(why play in a party when you can solo and get the rares all to yourself?) and there will be no diversity among the classes whatsoever.

in-party scenario:
heck,the beast fighmaster just casted buffs on himself,and consequently every body else.do i as a masterforce want to stop using my level 50 diga that's doing 5400 damage to buff everybody again?...nah.oh shit!that gunmaster just took out a whole line of machines with level 20 megid!couple of less things I have to take out,I guess.woah,Im a fortetecher but I do a lot of damage with these awesome s-rank twin daggers!let me level these up instead of my technics for a while since the party can afford me slacking off a bit.



I agree that in the theory posted, the classes are too self sustaining on paper alone. The game itself doesn't lend towards enough specific encounters to warrant a necessity for group play as it is.

I personally would like to see the master classes be a progression of the current nine classes, but have extra things which would make the player actively choose from an ability/equipment which will make them different.

Masterfighter
- improved melee PP consumption when using PA skills (30% reduction instead of 20%)
- the ability to use two handed weapons which can "house" an additional PA skill (you would tap the button which would normally switch to your pistol or other offhand weapon to utilize this funtion)
- PA skills performed as a just attack become uninterruptable (the master fighter still takes damage/SE/dies normally... loses all evasion during the JA PA skill)

I would keep the weapon selection the same and of course improve the stat percentages through the progression of the levels.

Masterfightgunner
- improved melee PP consumtion when using PA skills and bullets (10% reduction for each)
- increased attack speed when utilizing PA skills (20% increase in the attack speed... on my computer there is a significant difference between how fast a PA skill animation cycles through based on whether it hits something and needs to calculate damage. I'd like masterfightgunners to be able to spam PA skills faster than anyone else for their melee prowess)
- longer just counter reaction window

Masterwartecher
- improved melee consumption when using PA skills and offensive techs only (10% reduction for each)
- Just counter technic attacks WILL critical
- speed effect of Me/Quick when using attack techs, speed hinderance of Me/Concentrate when using support techs (these can still be supplemented with slot items, as the class trait is calculated after the speed of the slot item is applied)
- Spellblades... these special sabers are masterwartecher only, and they allow the MWT to attack with a technic more effectively while in close combat. The spell attached to the spellblade activates as the MWT normally swings (PA skills will not activate the attack tech). There is not a delay for casting time. The TP calculation for the attack tech is equal to 50% of the spellblade's ATP + character TP (the idea is for wands to still be a more powerful source of damage per cast. Single attack/ra technics/gi technics can all be housed within the spellblade (only one technic can be housed at a time). Just attacks and any combat based improvement damage will not apply to the attack technic, it will deal damage and critical based on separate calculations. Spells where damage cycles are renewed will not renew with additional swings, they will only apply one burst). The PP from the spell is an added consumption for the spellblade (although partly compensated from the PP return melee weapons are allowed with their normal swings). All SEs which would be applied from the resulting spell are limited to SE 2 or below.

Masterprotranser
- the critical multiplier for just attacks can combine with the type's improved charisma to have a "double crit" effect
- can equip any trap as your offhand weapon when using a one handed weapon
- able to activate two different EX traps at once (i.e. Stun and Fire, Shock and Virus, etc.)
- the effect of a triggered EX trap is not removed when a masterprotranser changes to a different weapon

Mastergunner
- improved PP consumption when using PA bullets (30% reduction versus fortegunner's 20%)
- Mastergunner are able to "just attack" with ranged weapons to increase damage by using a slower attack rhythm
- Mastergunner weapons are also able to combine the effect of two bullets, albeit also combining the cost of both bullets per shot
- just counter bullet shots will always critical

Masterguntecher
- improved PP consumption when using PA bullets and support techs (10% to each respectively)
- able to apply debuffs or attack technics as a "secondary" bullet to a guntecher's weaponry (the low attack tech levels automactically keeps this in line_ the weapon's TP improvement for the technic portion is equal to half the weapon's actual ATP). Of course, normal costs for the technic would apply. Silence and shock both negate this ability because it does require you to fire the bullet. Technics such as megiverse would only work for one cycle of the spell (hence like a normal AoE burst technic from the bullet's point of impact. This would allow a guntecher to strike objects with the bullet and have the object be the center of the field/debuff/attack tech). Opposing elements would of course weaken the effectiveness of the bullet and the technic (fire bullet + gibarta would reduce the damage of both by 30%), complimentary elements would strength both the bullet and the technic (earth bullet and gidiga would improve the damage of both by 15%... even technics which do not deal damage like debuffs would improve the damage of the bullet by 15% if they are of the same element). Non conflicting elements would not see a benefit outside of both dealing damage simultaneously.

Mastertecher
- improved PP consumption when using TECHNICs (30% reduction versus a fortetecher's 20%)
- all attack technics have the ability to crit when they are used for a just counter
- Mastertechers can opt to simultaneously use a gi-tech and a regular single target technic (aka like Kajibari or however you spell it). This combination can only be achieved by using a wand, and Megiverse does count as the "gi" portion of the spell when used with Megid.
- can equip an attack technic to be reactionary when a mastertecher is struck in combat. Even though the technic would take up the extra slot on armor, it will drain PP from whichever weapon is currently equipped.


Masteracrofighter
- when a PA skill is used as a just counter, it becomes uninterruptable by most normal means (unlike master fighters, masteraf evasion always applies so a "block" can stop a PA skill just counter because it gives the opportunity for another just counter)
- regardless of whether the masteracrofighter meets the damage threshold, a just counter PA skill will always apply the intended stagger/launch/wipeout/blow away etc.
- increased attack speed when using the normal attacks of any two handed weapon they can select (same boost that twin daggers are currently getting, which I believe is 20%)
- increased proc percentage from the Shadoog bullets (10% more likely to cause the intended status effect than any other type)

Masteracrotecher
- when a support spell is used as a just counter, its effects are improved (10% extra stat improvement for buffs, 20% increased healing for resta, +10% regen added to giresta's current regen amount)
- can set madoogs to "auto fire"... every 8 ticks the madoog would cast the technic tied to it on the closest feasible target. The masteracrotecher cannot adjust choose the madoog's target. Autofire madoogs can only house one TECHNIC because the second slot has the autofire activation in it. Resta and reverser can be set to autofire (which would open up avenues of allowing enemies to constantly renew negative status effects upon the party)
- Masteracrotechers only use half a technic's normal amount of PP if it is utilized as a just counter.


I feel these still leave the types as they were intended, but do add additional flare so more creative options are available to each player. Some of the more abstract concepts like the spellblade still shouldn't override the damage goodness of level 30+ dus majarra.

A berserk grenade with the opposite element should deal obscene damage, but the double bullet cost along with health is more than likely going to compensate (if not outright kill the mastergunner)

A fortetecher casting gibarta reactionary on hit may help to give a bit of breathing room should they get surrounded, but the PP drain and proc percentage isn't going to fully compensate for a fighter class flinging the monsters away from the techer to begin with.

A masterprotranser's ability to "double crit" isn't going to put them anywhere near a masterfighter's dps output.

I don't want the classes to collapse back in on themselves when we master the advanced classes, and there should be lots of room to play with what the next range of classes can do without stepping on each others' toes.

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-05 09:04, LTrav2k wrote:
Mastertecher
- improved PP consumption when using TECHNICs (30% reduction versus a fortetecher's 20%)
- all attack technics have the ability to crit when they are used for a just counter
- Mastertechers can opt to simultaneously use a gi-tech and a regular single target technic (aka like Kajibari or however you spell it). This combination can only be achieved by using a wand, and Megiverse does count as the "gi" portion of the spell when used with Megid.
- can equip an attack technic to be reactionary when a mastertecher is struck in combat. Even though the technic would take up the extra slot on armor, it will drain PP from whichever weapon is currently equipped.

Less PP consumption? Yeah, I like.

JCed techs crit? Sign me up, we MIGHT start competing with Fighters for DPS. (lol, not)

Kagajibari-style Gi + Simple spell attacks? Sign me the HELL... wands? fuck you.

Reactionary Gizonde? :hellyeah:

Wand/Madoog combos already have enough bullshit advantages over rods. The double-cast bonus should be on Rods only. I still don't like your belief that techers should be shoehorned into "nuking retard" and "group-supporting friend", either.

6.5/10

[Rayokarna]

On 2007-11-05 09:04, LTrav2k wrote:

On 2007-11-04 17:20, majan wrote:
the master classes you are making will be entirely too self sustaining and IMBA in my opinion.team play will be obsolete unless for 2 reasons,because everyone will be powerful enough to handle themselves(why play in a party when you can solo and get the rares all to yourself?) and there will be no diversity among the classes whatsoever.

in-party scenario:
heck,the beast fighmaster just casted buffs on himself,and consequently every body else.do i as a masterforce want to stop using my level 50 diga that's doing 5400 damage to buff everybody again?...nah.oh shit!that gunmaster just took out a whole line of machines with level 20 megid!couple of less things I have to take out,I guess.woah,Im a fortetecher but I do a lot of damage with these awesome s-rank twin daggers!let me level these up instead of my technics for a while since the party can afford me slacking off a bit.



I agree that in the theory posted, the classes are too self sustaining on paper alone. The game itself doesn't lend towards enough specific encounters to warrant a necessity for group play as it is.

I personally would like to see the master classes be a progression of the current nine classes, but have extra things which would make the player actively choose from an ability/equipment which will make them different.

Masterfighter
- improved melee PP consumption when using PA skills (30% reduction instead of 20%)
- the ability to use two handed weapons which can "house" an additional PA skill (you would tap the button which would normally switch to your pistol or other offhand weapon to utilize this funtion)
- PA skills performed as a just attack become uninterruptable (the master fighter still takes damage/SE/dies normally... loses all evasion during the JA PA skill)

I would keep the weapon selection the same and of course improve the stat percentages through the progression of the levels.

Masterfightgunner
- improved melee PP consumtion when using PA skills and bullets (10% reduction for each)
- increased attack speed when utilizing PA skills (20% increase in the attack speed... on my computer there is a significant difference between how fast a PA skill animation cycles through based on whether it hits something and needs to calculate damage. I'd like masterfightgunners to be able to spam PA skills faster than anyone else for their melee prowess)
- longer just counter reaction window

Masterwartecher
- improved melee consumption when using PA skills and offensive techs only (10% reduction for each)
- Just counter technic attacks WILL critical
- speed effect of Me/Quick when using attack techs, speed hinderance of Me/Concentrate when using support techs (these can still be supplemented with slot items, as the class trait is calculated after the speed of the slot item is applied)
- Spellblades... these special sabers are masterwartecher only, and they allow the MWT to attack with a technic more effectively while in close combat. The spell attached to the spellblade activates as the MWT normally swings (PA skills will not activate the attack tech). There is not a delay for casting time. The TP calculation for the attack tech is equal to 50% of the spellblade's ATP + character TP (the idea is for wands to still be a more powerful source of damage per cast. Single attack/ra technics/gi technics can all be housed within the spellblade (only one technic can be housed at a time). Just attacks and any combat based improvement damage will not apply to the attack technic, it will deal damage and critical based on separate calculations. Spells where damage cycles are renewed will not renew with additional swings, they will only apply one burst). The PP from the spell is an added consumption for the spellblade (although partly compensated from the PP return melee weapons are allowed with their normal swings). All SEs which would be applied from the resulting spell are limited to SE 2 or below.

Masterprotranser
- the critical multiplier for just attacks can combine with the type's improved charisma to have a "double crit" effect
- can equip any trap as your offhand weapon when using a one handed weapon
- able to activate two different EX traps at once (i.e. Stun and Fire, Shock and Virus, etc.)
- the effect of a triggered EX trap is not removed when a masterprotranser changes to a different weapon

Mastergunner
- improved PP consumption when using PA bullets (30% reduction versus fortegunner's 20%)
- Mastergunner are able to "just attack" with ranged weapons to increase damage by using a slower attack rhythm
- Mastergunner weapons are also able to combine the effect of two bullets, albeit also combining the cost of both bullets per shot
- just counter bullet shots will always critical

Masterguntecher
- improved PP consumption when using PA bullets and support techs (10% to each respectively)
- able to apply debuffs or attack technics as a "secondary" bullet to a guntecher's weaponry (the low attack tech levels automactically keeps this in line_ the weapon's TP improvement for the technic portion is equal to half the weapon's actual ATP). Of course, normal costs for the technic would apply. Silence and shock both negate this ability because it does require you to fire the bullet. Technics such as megiverse would only work for one cycle of the spell (hence like a normal AoE burst technic from the bullet's point of impact. This would allow a guntecher to strike objects with the bullet and have the object be the center of the field/debuff/attack tech). Opposing elements would of course weaken the effectiveness of the bullet and the technic (fire bullet + gibarta would reduce the damage of both by 30%), complimentary elements would strength both the bullet and the technic (earth bullet and gidiga would improve the damage of both by 15%... even technics which do not deal damage like debuffs would improve the damage of the bullet by 15% if they are of the same element). Non conflicting elements would not see a benefit outside of both dealing damage simultaneously.

Mastertecher
- improved PP consumption when using TECHNICs (30% reduction versus a fortetecher's 20%)
- all attack technics have the ability to crit when they are used for a just counter
- Mastertechers can opt to simultaneously use a gi-tech and a regular single target technic (aka like Kajibari or however you spell it). This combination can only be achieved by using a wand, and Megiverse does count as the "gi" portion of the spell when used with Megid.
- can equip an attack technic to be reactionary when a mastertecher is struck in combat. Even though the technic would take up the extra slot on armor, it will drain PP from whichever weapon is currently equipped.


Masteracrofighter
- when a PA skill is used as a just counter, it becomes uninterruptable by most normal means (unlike master fighters, masteraf evasion always applies so a "block" can stop a PA skill just counter because it gives the opportunity for another just counter)
- regardless of whether the masteracrofighter meets the damage threshold, a just counter PA skill will always apply the intended stagger/launch/wipeout/blow away etc.
- increased attack speed when using the normal attacks of any two handed weapon they can select (same boost that twin daggers are currently getting, which I believe is 20%)
- increased proc percentage from the Shadoog bullets (10% more likely to cause the intended status effect than any other type)

Masteracrotecher
- when a support spell is used as a just counter, its effects are improved (10% extra stat improvement for buffs, 20% increased healing for resta, +10% regen added to giresta's current regen amount)
- can set madoogs to "auto fire"... every 8 ticks the madoog would cast the technic tied to it on the closest feasible target. The masteracrotecher cannot adjust choose the madoog's target. Autofire madoogs can only house one TECHNIC because the second slot has the autofire activation in it. Resta and reverser can be set to autofire (which would open up avenues of allowing enemies to constantly renew negative status effects upon the party)
- Masteracrotechers only use half a technic's normal amount of PP if it is utilized as a just counter.


I feel these still leave the types as they were intended, but do add additional flare so more creative options are available to each player. Some of the more abstract concepts like the spellblade still shouldn't override the damage goodness of level 30+ dus majarra.

A berserk grenade with the opposite element should deal obscene damage, but the double bullet cost along with health is more than likely going to compensate (if not outright kill the mastergunner)

A fortetecher casting gibarta reactionary on hit may help to give a bit of breathing room should they get surrounded, but the PP drain and proc percentage isn't going to fully compensate for a fighter class flinging the monsters away from the techer to begin with.

A masterprotranser's ability to "double crit" isn't going to put them anywhere near a masterfighter's dps output.

I don't want the classes to collapse back in on themselves when we master the advanced classes, and there should be lots of room to play with what the next range of classes can do without stepping on each others' toes.



That is extreamly cool http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[LTrav2k]

On 2007-11-05 09:13, Remedy wrote:

Wand/Madoog combos already have enough bullshit advantages over rods. The double-cast bonus should be on Rods only. I still don't like your belief that techers should be shoehorned into "nuking retard" and "group-supporting friend", either.

6.5/10



The reason I thought to leave it as wands only is because when you start having the reactionary techs being casted at the power of the wand/rod equipped... the volume alone is going to make up for the amount of TP. Plus I don't see SEGA singly coding the manuever if a rod is present with two other technics to review. With the way they usually work on things, if you put 3 different gi spells on the rod to go with the single attack tech... it could end up in a resulting quad cast versus double. Screaming would ensue.

Since mastertechers under this guise would be able to nuke more effectively and still be supporting friend if they wanted to be, what else would you be asking for? More proficiency in melee?

[Remedy]

No, they couldn't, considering MATs under your system would likely still have a higher support cap than MTs would, in addition to still having support superiourity through Just Countered support techs and half-price support techs (when Just Countered).

Unfortunately, ST (and most of the community that didn't play PSO) seems to believe Forces should be supporters OR nukers, not both like they have been for the last seven years. I've made my decision as to the side I'll take, but the whole idea is still exceedingly stupid.

[Rayokarna]

Remedy, I can't fully understand the taking sides on roles on a FT(For the sole reason Im only FT lvl 2 ><). But I know how upseting it is to lose lvl 40 support, (Still slightly grumpy on losing out on lvl 40 skills). For now, all you can do is sit back and watch things unfold. Nobody should tell you how you play, just do what it feels right(Just don't flame people ><). Plus with an attitude like urs I would love to party with you in the near future (Preferibly before AOI).

Just keep you head up, good things come to those that wait http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[LTrav2k]

Honestly, I see fortetechers as both supports and nukers. I could care less that they aren't the BEST in support, since they're still extremely effective as support. If I've buffed everyone and while I switch over to heal someone, a mob hits me and I reactionary megiverse the entire group to get my own health back (while still casting resta, reverser, or my own megiverse)... that's real enough for me.

The support technics are still available, so a fortetecher COULD always use them. I'm a wartecher and can still use mine if there isn't another option (otherwise I'll use 'rides and be on my way). The fact that some WON'T because they aren't the best at it is a different story though, and there's not much I can do about that difference of playstyle. To make MT have an ability which puts their buffs on part with regular AT isn't what they're looking for unfortunately.

I know that forces were both in PSO, but I also know that I'd be thankful for a level 30 buff just as well because right now until the monsters become so destructive that the extra stats are necessary... the point becomes more moot.

I personally thought a mob hitting you and being shocked by a level 31 Gizonde for their troubles would be full of enough win, ah well.

[Remedy]

I would elaborate further, but my views are usually called "whining" by most of the community, so I'll just bow elegantly out of this topic now.

[LTrav2k]

On 2007-11-05 10:18, Remedy wrote:
I would elaborate further, but my views are usually called "whining" by most of the community, so I'll just bow elegantly out of this topic now.



Elaborate to me further in PM if you'd like then, since I'm interested in the discussion.

Rayokarna, I'm very happy that you like my ideas also http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LTrav2k on 2007-11-05 10:21 ]</font>

[mizukage]

On 2007-11-05 06:14, Shiroryuu wrote:
Its just as silly that Fighmaster, the master fighter is the one class that can't use S rank big swords and twin claws, and that Acromaster can use almost everything BUT single-handed blades. >.>



Totally agreed. Jeez... Fighmaster can't wield swords, Masterforces can't wield rods, the garbage data is probably wrong.

[Rayokarna]

On 2007-11-05 10:20, LTrav2k wrote:

On 2007-11-05 10:18, Remedy wrote:
I would elaborate further, but my views are usually called "whining" by most of the community, so I'll just bow elegantly out of this topic now.



Elaborate to me further in PM if you'd like then, since I'm interested in the discussion.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LTrav2k on 2007-11-05 10:21 ]</font>


Seconded http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-11-05 09:04, LTrav2k wrote:

On 2007-11-04 17:20, majan wrote:
the master classes you are making will be entirely too self sustaining and IMBA in my opinion.team play will be obsolete unless for 2 reasons,because everyone will be powerful enough to handle themselves(why play in a party when you can solo and get the rares all to yourself?) and there will be no diversity among the classes whatsoever.

in-party scenario:
heck,the beast fighmaster just casted buffs on himself,and consequently every body else.do i as a masterforce want to stop using my level 50 diga that's doing 5400 damage to buff everybody again?...nah.oh shit!that gunmaster just took out a whole line of machines with level 20 megid!couple of less things I have to take out,I guess.woah,Im a fortetecher but I do a lot of damage with these awesome s-rank twin daggers!let me level these up instead of my technics for a while since the party can afford me slacking off a bit.



I agree that in the theory posted, the classes are too self sustaining on paper alone. The game itself doesn't lend towards enough specific encounters to warrant a necessity for group play as it is.

I personally would like to see the master classes be a progression of the current nine classes, but have extra things which would make the player actively choose from an ability/equipment which will make them different.

Masterfighter
- improved melee PP consumption when using PA skills (30% reduction instead of 20%)
- the ability to use two handed weapons which can "house" an additional PA skill (you would tap the button which would normally switch to your pistol or other offhand weapon to utilize this funtion)
- PA skills performed as a just attack become uninterruptable (the master fighter still takes damage/SE/dies normally... loses all evasion during the JA PA skill)

I would keep the weapon selection the same and of course improve the stat percentages through the progression of the levels.

Masterfightgunner
- improved melee PP consumtion when using PA skills and bullets (10% reduction for each)
- increased attack speed when utilizing PA skills (20% increase in the attack speed... on my computer there is a significant difference between how fast a PA skill animation cycles through based on whether it hits something and needs to calculate damage. I'd like masterfightgunners to be able to spam PA skills faster than anyone else for their melee prowess)
- longer just counter reaction window

Masterwartecher
- improved melee consumption when using PA skills and offensive techs only (10% reduction for each)
- Just counter technic attacks WILL critical
- speed effect of Me/Quick when using attack techs, speed hinderance of Me/Concentrate when using support techs (these can still be supplemented with slot items, as the class trait is calculated after the speed of the slot item is applied)
- Spellblades... these special sabers are masterwartecher only, and they allow the MWT to attack with a technic more effectively while in close combat. The spell attached to the spellblade activates as the MWT normally swings (PA skills will not activate the attack tech). There is not a delay for casting time. The TP calculation for the attack tech is equal to 50% of the spellblade's ATP + character TP (the idea is for wands to still be a more powerful source of damage per cast. Single attack/ra technics/gi technics can all be housed within the spellblade (only one technic can be housed at a time). Just attacks and any combat based improvement damage will not apply to the attack technic, it will deal damage and critical based on separate calculations. Spells where damage cycles are renewed will not renew with additional swings, they will only apply one burst). The PP from the spell is an added consumption for the spellblade (although partly compensated from the PP return melee weapons are allowed with their normal swings). All SEs which would be applied from the resulting spell are limited to SE 2 or below.

Masterprotranser
- the critical multiplier for just attacks can combine with the type's improved charisma to have a "double crit" effect
- can equip any trap as your offhand weapon when using a one handed weapon
- able to activate two different EX traps at once (i.e. Stun and Fire, Shock and Virus, etc.)
- the effect of a triggered EX trap is not removed when a masterprotranser changes to a different weapon

Mastergunner
- improved PP consumption when using PA bullets (30% reduction versus fortegunner's 20%)
- Mastergunner are able to "just attack" with ranged weapons to increase damage by using a slower attack rhythm
- Mastergunner weapons are also able to combine the effect of two bullets, albeit also combining the cost of both bullets per shot
- just counter bullet shots will always critical

Masterguntecher
- improved PP consumption when using PA bullets and support techs (10% to each respectively)
- able to apply debuffs or attack technics as a "secondary" bullet to a guntecher's weaponry (the low attack tech levels automactically keeps this in line_ the weapon's TP improvement for the technic portion is equal to half the weapon's actual ATP). Of course, normal costs for the technic would apply. Silence and shock both negate this ability because it does require you to fire the bullet. Technics such as megiverse would only work for one cycle of the spell (hence like a normal AoE burst technic from the bullet's point of impact. This would allow a guntecher to strike objects with the bullet and have the object be the center of the field/debuff/attack tech). Opposing elements would of course weaken the effectiveness of the bullet and the technic (fire bullet + gibarta would reduce the damage of both by 30%), complimentary elements would strength both the bullet and the technic (earth bullet and gidiga would improve the damage of both by 15%... even technics which do not deal damage like debuffs would improve the damage of the bullet by 15% if they are of the same element). Non conflicting elements would not see a benefit outside of both dealing damage simultaneously.

Mastertecher
- improved PP consumption when using TECHNICs (30% reduction versus a fortetecher's 20%)
- all attack technics have the ability to crit when they are used for a just counter
- Mastertechers can opt to simultaneously use a gi-tech and a regular single target technic (aka like Kajibari or however you spell it). This combination can only be achieved by using a wand, and Megiverse does count as the "gi" portion of the spell when used with Megid.
- can equip an attack technic to be reactionary when a mastertecher is struck in combat. Even though the technic would take up the extra slot on armor, it will drain PP from whichever weapon is currently equipped.


Masteracrofighter
- when a PA skill is used as a just counter, it becomes uninterruptable by most normal means (unlike master fighters, masteraf evasion always applies so a "block" can stop a PA skill just counter because it gives the opportunity for another just counter)
- regardless of whether the masteracrofighter meets the damage threshold, a just counter PA skill will always apply the intended stagger/launch/wipeout/blow away etc.
- increased attack speed when using the normal attacks of any two handed weapon they can select (same boost that twin daggers are currently getting, which I believe is 20%)
- increased proc percentage from the Shadoog bullets (10% more likely to cause the intended status effect than any other type)

Masteracrotecher
- when a support spell is used as a just counter, its effects are improved (10% extra stat improvement for buffs, 20% increased healing for resta, +10% regen added to giresta's current regen amount)
- can set madoogs to "auto fire"... every 8 ticks the madoog would cast the technic tied to it on the closest feasible target. The masteracrotecher cannot adjust choose the madoog's target. Autofire madoogs can only house one TECHNIC because the second slot has the autofire activation in it. Resta and reverser can be set to autofire (which would open up avenues of allowing enemies to constantly renew negative status effects upon the party)
- Masteracrotechers only use half a technic's normal amount of PP if it is utilized as a just counter.


I feel these still leave the types as they were intended, but do add additional flare so more creative options are available to each player. Some of the more abstract concepts like the spellblade still shouldn't override the damage goodness of level 30+ dus majarra.

A berserk grenade with the opposite element should deal obscene damage, but the double bullet cost along with health is more than likely going to compensate (if not outright kill the mastergunner)

A fortetecher casting gibarta reactionary on hit may help to give a bit of breathing room should they get surrounded, but the PP drain and proc percentage isn't going to fully compensate for a fighter class flinging the monsters away from the techer to begin with.

A masterprotranser's ability to "double crit" isn't going to put them anywhere near a masterfighter's dps output.

I don't want the classes to collapse back in on themselves when we master the advanced classes, and there should be lots of room to play with what the next range of classes can do without stepping on each others' toes.

I like your ideas and wish to subscribe to your magazine.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-11-04 23:56, Zorafim wrote:
custom classes? please?


I think that's basically what the Master types are going to be. For the people freaking about uniqueness, it's like having 4 sets of lego instead of 9 action figures. Fewer toys, but so much more to play with. The 36 PA limit means you can't possibly use EVERYTHING or at least use everything well, so someone else's take on Gunmaster is going to be totally different than mine.

For stats, I'm guessing they'll be strong-second-best (hybrid-class range) so Forte's still have a degree of superiority. Technically that's 7 classes you'd have a good reason to play.

My guess:
ThFighmaster -
40/40/40/40 skill cap
skill PP cost reduction (20%)
all melee weapons
most ranged weapons (no laser, grenade)
most tech weapons (no rods, bows)

Gunmaster -
40/40/40/40 skill cap
bullet PP cost reduction (20%)
most melee weapons (no axe, no doubles?)
all ranged weapons
most tech weapons (no wands, whips)

Mastershakeforce -
30/30/40/40 skill cap
tech PP cost reduction (20%)
most melee weapons (no axe, no doubles)
most ranged weapons (no laser, grenade)
all tech weapons

Acromaster -
40/40/40/40 skill cap
speed bonus (10%)
most melee weapons (no axe, sword, spear, doubles)
most ranged weapons (no laser, grenade, rifle)
most tech weapons (no rod, bow)

... IMO there needs to be a Trancemaster too, if Master types are going to completely replace Expert.
40/40/40/40 skill cap
trap vision/bonuses/EX
heavy melee weapons (no twin-anything, slicers)
heavy ranged weapons (no shadoog, twin handgun)
heavy tech weapons (no madoog, card, wand, whip)

... what if Master types were totally awesome but had a 0% skill XP modifier, like you have to change jobs if you want to level your skills at all?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-11-05 12:18 ]</font>

[LTrav2k]

On 2007-11-05 11:06, Typheros wrote:

I like your ideas and wish to subscribe to your magazine.



This needs to be in my sig's life. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Shishi-O]

On 2007-11-04 06:21, Schubalts wrote:
Because going from 3 to 9 to 4 types makes no sense, seeing as the expert types are meant to make sure that everyone isn't playing the same type?

why on earth would you wanna make sure people aren't doing exactly what they wanna do?


my wish for fighmaster

skill-50

bullets-30

tech-20

sorta a cross between figh gunner and war techer...aoi, well too week to be a master class, hmmn

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shishi-O on 2007-11-06 02:05 ]</font>

[Krisan]

On 2007-11-05 00:15, Remedy wrote:
Just ignore that picture - as people have said, that is the garbage data pulled out of the offline information by Itsuki, which is (obviously) wrong.
Why dismiss offline data as garbage so easily? (Especially when the original Expert classes were first found in offline data, and those didn't change too dramatically when they showed up online..) These are quite obviously Templates that Sega made when coming up with the classes themselves.. And I honestly don't think they're going to change that much when they hit online mode. (Not because I like what I see, I have next to no opinion on it, which might be a good reason for people to listen to me.. I'm not biased on the subject.)

Sega likes making a finished game but locking 70% of the content and releasing everything they made in segments online as time passes.. assuming they implemented these classes later in development, chances are they're not going to be much different when they hit online mode.. Now, if they implemented them early in development, then yea, this template might be very outdated from what the finalized versions online will be.. but even then, I wouldn't count on it being too very different.. (Different sure, but not completely redone.)

People seem to be arguing at each other left and right, clawing and scratching for this or that reason.. but honestly, no matter what you would prefer, no matter what you think makes more sense, or what you think of "balance" in this game.. Sega has their own vision, and they'll do whatever the hell they want. Even if you find it the most ridiculous thing ever, they'll do it if they want to do it. (They don't have the greatest track record anyway, they're famous more for their failure than their success in recent history..)

So in short, we don't really know for sure what to expect, but what we -do- know from the offline data recovered - while not entirely reliable - is probably painting a good image of what we can expect to see.. and no amount of whining or yelling or debating or daydreaming is going to change that..



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Krisan on 2007-11-06 03:05 ]</font>

[Reipard]

Why dismiss offline data as garbage so easily?

Because the offline and online databases are two completely different things. At the very least, you can expect Masterforce to actually be able to use Rods.

[amtalx]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when they discovered the advanced classes on the original PSU disc wasn't there only data on a few of the classes? We didn't find out that there were actually 7 until ST released information about the actual update. Wouldn't it be reasonable to think that there are maybe more than 4 master classes?

[Shiro_Ryuu]

That's a good point. Would be nice if there were more than 4 classes if it was going to be a new tier of classes. Maybe they just might be stronger versions of what we have now (eg, Master versions of FF, FG, FT, FI, GT, WT, PT, AF, and AT) but like, all useable S ranks of what they can use + lv 50 PAs? That might be pretty neat. Or maybe we reach a Master version of our class when we reach a certain level of our expert type? Just coming up with stuff I pulled from my ass.

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-11-06 05:01, amtalx wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when they discovered the advanced classes on the original PSU disc wasn't there only data on a few of the classes? We didn't find out that there were actually 7 until ST released information about the actual update. Wouldn't it be reasonable to think that there are maybe more than 4 master classes?

This is very feasable, and would make a lot more sense gameplay and balance-wise if this were true.

[Reipard]

If there were Master- for every type that actually adds unique traits to each one that would be a wondrous thing indeed.

Of course, this speculation is just as empty as the bad speculation. But you won't see anyone complaining about people getting worked up over this speculation because it's happy and positive!

Double! Standard!

[panzer_unit]

If I can use most or all of my Protranser weapons, plus some other cool stuff, with better stats and skills... sign me up for whatever the hell they call that. I don't want to be stuck with PT remaining unique for gear and abilities, while being entirely outclassed for effectiveness by a new tier of jobs.

[Fresh]

where did all that info come from because that sounds like bs not everyone is going to be able to use tech's

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-06 06:52, Reipard wrote:
But you won't see anyone complaining about people getting worked up over this speculation because it's happy and positive!I would, because it continues to enforce the bullshit "nuker or supporter" standard for Forces.

[Kylie]

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif I'm hoping they don't make the other classes obsolete as this guess suggests.

[Golto]

On 2007-11-06 07:56, Fresh wrote:
where did all that info come from because that sounds like bs not everyone is going to be able to use tech's



I have to agree with this guy. It doesn't make sense for a master melee or gun type to have tech weapons. Even if some of their prerequisite types have tech weapons in them doesn't mean those will carry over to the melee or gun master types. Their focus could be in a singular weapon type, even more so than the current Forte types.

[Reipard]

The topic creator made it incredibly clear that s/he was speculating.

[Reipard]

I would, because it continues to enforce the bullshit "nuker or supporter" standard for Forces.

Forces can be nukers or supporters or both, if they wish. I do not see where you come from. But either way, what you refer to is not what I spoke of in my post?

[Remedy]

Master-FT = heavy nukes and Master-AT = heavy support, correct?

If so, then you're continuing to enforce the standard that's being implemented in AotI with FTs and ATs. The listed Masterforce would solve that issue and get us back to the good old days of PSU where Forces WERE support.

[Reipard]

I was just jabbing at the 'complain about complaining' mentality some people have approached this speculation with. I wasn't really making any sort of statement about the actual info.

But I do think a 'nuking' force and a 'healing' force would allow people more freedom to choose their style of play. I know that sounds strange, but if they were combined into one unit, just as it is now and as it began with, forces will have negative social pressure to play a support mage nomatter how they actually want to play. And I don't think that is particularly fair.

[Remedy]

And it's equally unfair for a mage who enjoys doing both to have to choose between being a good friend, or continuing a legacy that she's led for almost seven years. Your point?

[Fresh]

This is info straight from the japanese site about the future updates no where in this does it have any of the bs the person who created this topic wrote it has general info nothing else....... if you look in january it says for the update there will be 3 new battle types added it doesn't say what types it will be. The topic creater says hopefully this won't start rumors well what the hell do you think is going to happen creating a topic and post like that. So hopefully my info and link will stop a little of the rumor this started.

Here is the link if you think im lying

http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fphantasystaruniverse.jp%2 Fnews%2Fwis%2F%3Fmode%3Dview%26id%3D506&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8

November

- World 1 and World 2 will finally be merged.
- A new system called Guardians Boost Road will be implemented. Basically, certain missions are selected by SonicTeam to receive various bonuses upon completion. It's mentioned that November will start things off by increasing the drop rates of items on all Parum missions. Other planned GBR bonuses to be implemented at a later time include boosted EXP and MP values for select missions.
- Chapter 2 of Episode 3 will be released.
- The level cap will be raised to 120.
- New clothes and parts will be released.
- New Casino Volyale trade items will be added.
- New fields and free missions will be added, and as per usual, more new drops.
- The autumn and ancestral festival lobbies will be added.
- There had been mention a while back about Sonic Team starting a tracking website that will show players what missions are currently popular. That site is planned to open during the month of November.
- New partner machines will be added.
- Part of the room move passes will be introduced, which will allow you to move your room to one of the planets.

December

- Chapter 3 of Episode 3 will be released.
- The level cap will be increased to 130.
- A special event, Maximum Attack G, will begin in celebration of the 20th anniversary of the Phantasy Star series.
* This event will introduce the Ragol-themed fields.
* With the new fields will come new drops.
- During the month of December, the PSO-themed clothes and parts will be released.
- The Christmas lobby will be introduced.

January - March of 2008

- One new chapter of Episode 3 will be released each month.
- New party missions will be added.
- Three new battle types will be added.
- Level cap will be increased to 140.
- New fields, free missions and drops will be added.
- New clothes, parts and Casino Volyale items will be added.
- The New Year, snow, Valentine and White Day lobbies will be seen across these months.
- Even more new partner machines will be added.
- Other move tickets to allow you to move your room to one of the planets will be added.
- The Dengeki Cup (name not final) will begin.



Edit: Had to fix a few things in my rant at the top http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Fresh on 2007-11-06 10:26 ]</font>

[Remedy]

I swear, if we don't get PSO clothes ASAP...

[panzer_unit]

If there was only one top-tier class with full skill caps, S-ranks in every type of weapon, good stats across the board... how would you set up? I bet everyone would do it differently.

[Fresh]

On 2007-11-06 10:43, Remedy wrote:
I swear, if we don't get PSO clothes ASAP...



I posted right above where you said this... um in december the pso clothes will be out in jp so we will be probably getting them a little later unless were lucky also my post ends what the creater started by having all the info there is about future updates well at least so far what they said and all my info is right on the jp site

[EspioKaos]

On 2007-11-06 10:54, Fresh wrote:
...and all my info is right on the jp site

You're welcome for translating it for you! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Fresh]

On 2007-11-06 10:57, EspioKaos wrote:

On 2007-11-06 10:54, Fresh wrote:
...and all my info is right on the jp site

You're welcome for translating it for you! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



thanks for being a smart ass i was just trying to answer someones question and get people that read the first and last post to look at what i said so that the rumors this topic starts won't start....

[EspioKaos]

On 2007-11-06 11:02, Fresh wrote:
thanks for being a smart ass

Oh, no problem! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Kidding aside, it's worth it to try to put a stop to the rumors, but there's no stopping them all. I've tried to extinguish a few that I see people start in-game and on the forums, but it rarely seems to work. People will believe what they want to believe, and sometimes there's just no stopping them. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif (Black nanoblast with dual axes, for example?)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: EspioKaos on 2007-11-06 11:13 ]</font>

[Fresh]

yea i know what you mean but this is really a bad rumor i mean every class uses like every type of weapon and can use bullets skills and tech's i mean come on that has to be stopped people will quit the game seeing crap like that thats y i want every one to see the jp site with the truth

let me plug it again LOL

http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fphantasystaruniverse.jp%2 Fnews%2Fwis%2F%3Fmode%3Dview%26id%3D506&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8

[Rayokarna]

On 2007-11-06 10:47, panzer_unit wrote:
If there was only one top-tier class with full skill caps, S-ranks in every type of weapon, good stats across the board... how would you set up? I bet everyone would do it differently.



One of my main points exactly...

[amtalx]

wutevar, im getting muh techs and gunz and meelee weaps for w00t criticals in one clas

[Reipard]

This is info straight from the japanese site about the future updates no where in this does it have any of the bs the person who created this topic wrote it has general info nothing else....... if you look in january it says for the update there will be 3 new battle types added it doesn't say what types it will be. The topic creater says hopefully this won't start rumors well what the hell do you think is going to happen creating a topic and post like that. So hopefully my info and link will stop a little of the rumor this started.

Fresh, you claim to have read this topic, but I don't think you understand it. I shall make it clearer for you.

This is speculation. Speculation is the discussion of possibilities of things we don't know much about, whether positive or negative. The topic creator made it 100% clear that his theory was a theory and NOT confirmed actual information. Every single post in this topic that understood what he was trying to do was also speculating.

Speculation is harmless. It is a discussion of what could be. It is ultimately meaningless. But such discussion can be quite interesting. Not one person in this thread claimed their speculation to be fact and not one person in this thread went 'OMG THAT IS WHAT IT IS GOING TO BE?!'

In other words, nobody is starting freaking rumors. To propogate rumor would require people to pass all of this off as fact, which nobody is doing.

The facts in this topic:
-Three new types were announced.
-Three types were found in the offline data, dummied out and incomplete. It is likely that these may or may not be the types in question.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


And it's equally unfair for a mage who enjoys doing both to have to choose between being a good friend, or continuing a legacy that she's led for almost seven years. Your point?

That's kind of like me saying 'I like potatoes' and then the person I'm talking to responding with 'Yeah, potatoes. I hate potatoes because they KILLED MY CAT!' and then walking away.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Reipard on 2007-11-06 14:39 ]</font>

[GeekRuler]

I like this thread its made of foolish failure!
Good Luck trying to prove the existance of S2 weps lol
Wahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha

Didn't even bother reading the rest after I saw S2 http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Edit: btw Fresh is on an epic killing spree of forums lately... :/



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: GeekRuler on 2007-11-06 16:07 ]</font>

[Rayokarna]

On 2007-11-06 16:04, GeekRuler wrote:
I like this thread its made of foolish failure!
Good Luck trying to prove the existance of S2 weps lol
Wahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha

Didn't even bother reading the rest after I saw S2 http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Edit: btw Fresh is on an epic killing spree of forums lately... :/



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: GeekRuler on 2007-11-06 16:07 ]</font>


You seem not to understand that that I use the term 'S2' for weapons that were 13* and over for the fact that the class wont be able to use it unless it's class rarity exclusive. Just like Double Sabers in PSO could only be used by Hunters after the got to a certin rarity(excluds S-Rank Doubles from Challange mode...)

Perhaps I should make that clear next time...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rayokarna on 2007-11-07 10:07 ]</font>

[Golto]

I was once a supporter of s2 rank for equipment but this has already be proven wrong. 13* dagger board drops in JPN AOI is srank.

[Rayokarna]

On 2007-11-07 10:18, Golto wrote:
I was once a supporter of s2 rank for equipment but this has already be proven wrong. 13* dagger board drops in JPN AOI is srank.



XD, I know, there still S Ranks, but maybe the Masterclasses have a restriction on what type of S Ranks you can equip via the stars while still keeping it as S Ranks. Hopefully that clears up my point, thanks for pointing it out tho http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

The only reason I use S2 cause Im too lazy to write the stars.

[oooWaveooo]

as a newman techer i don;'t wanna have to level up gun and wartecher

[Luffia]

On 2007-11-12 12:02, oooWaveooo wrote:
as a newman techer i don;'t wanna have to level up gun and wartecher



lol dude it takes like 3 hrs tops, esp. with these new 1up missions... Moatoob gives like what? 400 MP for S rank on A?? and even after event, when the 16th comes and ppl have a few days before expansion, you know damn well everyones gonna run back to seabed, which only takes like 7 min per run and gives like near 200 MP (Don't remember exactally)

[Shiro_Ryuu]

lol Seabed, HSM killed that mission a long time ago.

[Rayokarna]

I think True Darkness is in order

[painXxX]

i know this dosent go with this subject but anyone have the new weapon chart? I need to see it plus can fighmasters really use double sabers?

[Umberger]

On 2007-11-28 19:54, painXxX wrote:
i know this dosent go with this subject but anyone have the new weapon chart? I need to see it plus can fighmasters really use double sabers?



...this is all speculation. Anything you hear about the master classes other than their names/descriptions is speculation. The end.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

This topic needed to stay dead. :<

[DEM_CIG]

If thats true better get upn Fortgunner.... ugh

[Kimil]

Master Classes would break the game. It would take away specialization... More specialties, the better IMO... so I thought PSU need more classes, time to make up some Classes Branches =)

Sega said they'd add 3 new classes, so my odd interputation of this is that each current Expert Class will be able to branch in 3 Master Classes



Fortefighter Master Classes

Fortewarrior
-Requirements: FF lvl 20, PT lvl 15, AF lvl 10
-Notes: Increased ATP from FF, speed boost with Swords and Axes.
-Weaponry gains: Swords S2, Axes S2, Spears S2
-Weaponry losses: All A rank Weaponry other than Handgun

Forteknight
-Requirements: FF lvl 20, WT lvl 15, FI lvl 10
-Notes: Increased HP and Def from FF, Blocking will not cause an animation just zero damage (ie: no PA stop!)
-Weaponry gains: Swords S2, Spears S2, Saber S2, Handgun S
-Weaponry losses: All remaining A ranks

Fortebrawler
-Requirements: FF lvl 20, AF lvl 15, FI lvl 10
-Notes: Increased ACC and EVA from FF, Speed boost with Twin Claws and Knuckles
-Weaponry gains: Knuckles S2, Twin Claws S2, Claws S2, Handgun S
-Weaponry losses: Losses all A ranks


Wartecher Master Classes

Ninjatecher
-Requirements: WT lvl 20, AF lvl 15, FI lvl 10
-Notes: Gains Speed Boost on Daggers, Twin Daggers and Twin Claws. Gains ACC increase
-Weaponry gains: Twin Dagger S2, Dagger S2, Twin Claw S2
-Weaponry losses: All A rank Weaponry other than Bow, Madoog, whips and Cards

Warshaman
-Requirements: WT lvl 20, AT lvl 15, FT lvl 10
-Notes: Lvl 30 Support Techs, increased TP and MST
-Weaponry gains: Wands S2, Twin Daggers S2, Knuckles S2, Madoogs S
-Weaponry losses: All A rank Weaponry other than Bow, whips and Cards

Warriortecher
-Requirements: WT lvl 20, FF lvl 15, FT lvl 10
-Notes: Increased TP, ATP. Attack techs lvl 40, Melee lvl 40. Losses Support and Ranged all together.
-Weaponry gains: Daggers S2, Twin Daggers S2, Wands S2
-Weaponry losses: Losses all A ranks

There's soe examples, make some more http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
Hoework time for me -.-
Blah Homework



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kimil on 2007-11-28 20:48 ]</font>

[DEM_CIG]

umm nice i guess ? nice thinking out side the box...

[StkDrowsy]

by your theory, there would be 9 new classes..and that would just kill any idea of the ones we have now.
i think its gona be more along the lines of a

master-force class
master- range class
master - hunter class

lol but good ideas

[Remedy]

Masterforce
-Requirements: FT level 20, AT level 20
-Notes: Increased casting speed like Acrotecher, PP usage on Rods (only) down 15%
-Weaponry gains: Rods S2
-Weaponry losses: Everything else
-Photon Art caps: Skills 0, Bullets 0, Support Technics 50, Offensive Technics 50

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

1. lol at
On 2007-11-28 20:38, Kimil wrote:
interputation

2. Ungh, can we please stop speculating about Master Types until we have real data? Please?
3. If those classes were to exist, they'd be found in offline data with the others. It'll just be the four that we have seen in name.
4. There are no "S2 weapons." 13-15* is still plain old S. We know this due to some screens of Amure Tip, a 13* Kubara single dagger. It's still plain old S.
5. I ran out of things to say.

[YUKI_N]

I'd hate this, half the game is about finding rares, i want more classes that can use S rank in everything they can equip, not classes that are forced into using 2 or 3 weapons types only which would be boring as hell

I predict in the end we'll only have 5 classes, fightmaster, gunmaster, masterforce, acromaster, and protranser. Its just another move to make the game more like PSO

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-28 20:45, YUKI_N wrote:
I predict in the end we'll only have 5 classes, fightmaster, gunmaster, masterforce, acromaster, and protranser. Its just another move to make the game more like PSO

A: Acromaster incorporates Protranser. Watch.
B: The game is already like PSO in the fact that ranged weapons and techs are useless and meleers are the only worthwhile classes. Durr.

[Umberger]

On 2007-11-28 20:44, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:

2. Ungh, can we please stop speculating about Master Types until we have real data? Please?



Second.

[Kimil]

On 2007-11-28 20:45, YUKI_N wrote:
I'd hate this, half the game is about finding rares, i want more classes that can use S rank in everything they can equip, not classes that are forced into using 2 or 3 weapons types only which would be boring as hell

I predict in the end we'll only have 5 classes, fightmaster, gunmaster, masterforce, acromaster, and protranser. Its just another move to make the game more like PSO



I said only loss of A ranks, didn't touch the Sranks they're still there.

[Kimil]

On 2007-11-28 19:58, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
This topic needed to stay dead. :<



[spoiler-box]bump =>[/spoiler-box]

[DEM_CIG]

On 2007-11-28 20:51, Umberger wrote:

On 2007-11-28 20:44, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:

2. Ungh, can we please stop speculating about Master Types until we have real data? Please?



Second.


lmao... third

[Carlo210]

Is Acromaster gets level 50 skills, I'm good.

[waluigi1]

Warriortecher
-Requirements: WT lvl 20, FF lvl 15, FT lvl 10
-Notes: Increased TP, ATP. Attack techs lvl 40, Melee lvl 40. Losses Support and Ranged all together.
-Weaponry gains: Daggers S2, Twin Daggers S2, Wands S2
-Weaponry losses: Losses all A ranks

Um...doesn't Wartecher stand for Warrior Techer anyway...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: waluigi1 on 2007-11-28 21:07 ]</font>

[waluigi1]

*thought bubble* I think it would be cool if the Acromaster was like the hybrid master... *thought bubble*

[Kimil]

On 2007-11-28 21:06, waluigi1 wrote:

Warriortecher
-Requirements: WT lvl 20, FF lvl 15, FT lvl 10
-Notes: Increased TP, ATP. Attack techs lvl 40, Melee lvl 40. Losses Support and Ranged all together.
-Weaponry gains: Daggers S2, Twin Daggers S2, Wands S2
-Weaponry losses: Losses all A ranks

Um...doesn't Wartecher stand for Warrior Techer anyway...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: waluigi1 on 2007-11-28 21:07 ]</font>


No just 'War' - 'Techer'



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kimil on 2007-11-28 23:34 ]</font>

[Carlo210]

Probably will be.

[Rainu]

Masterforce had better get S-rank Wands and Madoogs, like you're predicting.

Or there will be carnage.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rainu on 2007-11-28 23:33 ]</font>

[Aviendha]

Seriously, why does everyone seem to think Master Classes will be like offline mode classes and equip way too much stuff? Just wait and see.


On 2007-11-28 20:48, Remedy wrote:

On 2007-11-28 20:45, YUKI_N wrote:
I predict in the end we'll only have 5 classes, fightmaster, gunmaster, masterforce, acromaster, and protranser. Its just another move to make the game more like PSO

A: Acromaster incorporates Protranser. Watch.
B: The game is already like PSO in the fact that ranged weapons and techs are useless and meleers are the only worthwhile classes. Durr.


A: That wouldn't make sense as both Acros use all 1-hand weapons and have good stats while PT uses all 2-hand (exception for saber/Pistol because every class gets em) and has...mediocre stats.

B: Not useless, just less useful. A great FT is not as helpful as a great FF/AF/FI/WT/GT/AT/FG, but no class is useless. Being the least useful class in an easy game is like being the worst player on a winning team. Your team will still win and as long as you have fun, who cares? Play with some friends who aren't elitist pricks (I'd play with you if you were on 360^^) you'll be fine.

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-29 00:23, Aviendha wrote:
but no class is useless.FT is outsupported by AT and equally supported by GT, and is outdamaged by basically any class with level 20+ melee.

FT is useless. I play it because it's the only class in this game that holds my interest for longer than one run, but it's useless.

[Zael]

On 2007-11-28 19:58, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
This topic needed to stay dead. :<


Yes. This thread makes me sick.

[Zael]

Ugh no. I really do wish ST would not release new classes. The specialization is good enough as it is, as well as the variety of expert types. All they need to do is to make adjustments to the existing expert types, then increase the job cap to make all the existing expert classes stronger, rather than releasing new classes.

Example of what I'd find to be ideal changes to improve/balance the current types.

Acrotecher: Gains level 50 Support techs.
Fortetecher: Gains level 50 Attack techs and level 40 Support techs.
Wartecher: Gains level 30 Support techs, and S-rank TECH-mags.
Fortefighter: Loses slicer, gains level 50 Skills
Fortegunner: Gains level 50 bullets
Guntecher: Gains S-rank cards.

[Rayokarna]

On 2007-11-29 01:41, Zael wrote:
Ugh no. I really do wish ST would not release new classes. The specialization is good enough as it is, as well as the variety of expert types. All they need to do is to make adjustments to the existing expert types, then increase the job cap to make all the existing expert classes stronger, rather than releasing new classes.

Example of what I'd find to be ideal changes to improve/balance the current types.

Acrotecher: Gains level 50 Support techs.
Fortetecher: Gains level 50 Attack techs and level 40 Support techs.
Wartecher: Gains level 30 Support techs, and S-rank TECH-mags.
Fortefighter: Keeps slicer, gains level 50 Skills and lowers ATA
Fortegunner: Gains level 50 bullets
Guntecher: Gains S-rank cards.



Fixed XD

[Zabrio]

On 2007-11-28 20:58, DEM_CIG wrote:

On 2007-11-28 20:51, Umberger wrote:

On 2007-11-28 20:44, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:

2. Ungh, can we please stop speculating about Master Types until we have real data? Please?



Second.


lmao... third


fourth

[Kimil]

On 2007-11-29 02:38, Rayokarna wrote:

On 2007-11-29 01:41, Zael wrote:
Ugh no. I really do wish ST would not release new classes. The specialization is good enough as it is, as well as the variety of expert types. All they need to do is to make adjustments to the existing expert types, then increase the job cap to make all the existing expert classes stronger, rather than releasing new classes.

Example of what I'd find to be ideal changes to improve/balance the current types.

Acrotecher: Gains level 50 Support techs.
Fortetecher: Gains level 50 Attack techs and level 40 Support techs.
Wartecher: Gains level 30 Support techs, 40 Melee and Attack Tech and S-rank TECH-mags.
Fortefighter: Keeps slicer, gains level 50 Skills and lowers ATA
Fortegunner: Gains level 50 bullets
Guntecher: Gains S-rank cards.



Fixed XD


Fixed, if everyone was gonna get lvl 50 PA s ( which isn't gonna happen anyways) WT would not be staying at lvl 30 >_>

[Dragwind]

inb4crazydebates

[PhdChristmas]

Theres no way theyre giving us level 50 PA's. If we do recieve level 50 PA's its not going to be restricted to just the Master classes.


On 2007-11-03 14:31, Rayokarna wrote:
Before you start flamming me for making rumors before any offical word about this subject...

Don't start rumors. This is as bad as the rumor that "Acrotecher would require Fortetecher rank 10 to access," rumor where many Beasts and Cast led a painful strife to raising fortetecher to 10, where i lol'ed everytime i saw one.

If you are reading this thread, throw all the Class Rank requirments suggested, out the window.


On 2007-11-03 14:31, Rayokarna wrote:
...Extreamly High ATA modifier (Cast & Beast get a Race bonus)...

Humans and Newmans are more likely to see a ATA bonus for a gunner class. 'I suppose Casts should recieve a Race bonus for Master Techer.'


On 2007-11-03 14:31, Rayokarna wrote:
'educated' guess

Nice call on Beasts getting Race bonus for a gunner class.

The sad part of this thread is that someone that read this is going to off themselves irl when Master classes are revealed.

[toxic_rf]

Personally, I'd see these "Master Classes" as having access to a very wide variety of weapons at various levels, but with lower overall stats than the Forte classes.

But hey, we don't know anything 'til they're announced, but speculation is fun.

[Rayokarna]

On 2007-11-29 03:42, PhdChristmas wrote:
Theres no way theyre giving us level 50 PA's. If we do recieve level 50 PA's its not going to be restricted to just the Master classes.


On 2007-11-03 14:31, Rayokarna wrote:
Before you start flamming me for making rumors before any offical word about this subject...

Don't start rumors. This is as bad as the rumor that "Acrotecher would require Fortetecher rank 10 to access," rumor where many Beasts and Cast led a painful strife to raising fortetecher to 10, where i lol'ed everytime i saw one.

If you are reading this thread, throw all the Class Rank requirments suggested, out the window.


On 2007-11-03 14:31, Rayokarna wrote:
...Extreamly High ATA modifier (Cast & Beast get a Race bonus)...

Humans and Newmans are more likely to see a ATA bonus for a gunner class. 'I suppose Casts should recieve a Race bonus for Master Techer.'


On 2007-11-03 14:31, Rayokarna wrote:
'educated' guess

Nice call on Beasts getting Race bonus for a gunner class.

The sad part of this thread is that someone that read this is going to off themselves irl when Master classes are revealed.



You making the same mistake as Fresh did at this point cause as I said this before, 'This is speculation, a theory' and almost everyone in this topic know that. I really don't care if you like my theory or not, but I really can't stand it if people try and take me for a fool. As for the race bonuses, I think allows more diversity among race/class combos.

Anyway this thread died along time ago...

[RemiusTA]

Obviously ST has NOT hardprogrammed the Master class stats/weapon selection into the disc, so they can later choose what to give them based on current balancing.

This topic is useless.

And im going to fucking kill the next person who claims FT is useless. Not once have i played with a "USELESS" Fortecher. Their damage is damn decent, their Special effects and stuns are useful without blowing everything across the room, and on top of that, they look cool.

I believe the only reason they dont do the retarded damage they should is becuase ST is afraid of breaking the game with them.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RemiusTA on 2007-11-29 05:39 ]</font>

[Reipard]

This topic is useless.

Somebody doesn't know what speculation is.

[RemiusTA]

On 2007-11-29 05:39, Reipard wrote:


Somebody doesn't know what speculation is.



Yes, i do. Its useless.

[AerisZeal]

On 2007-11-28 19:54, painXxX wrote:
i know this dosent go with this subject but anyone have the new weapon chart? I need to see it plus can fighmasters really use double sabers?

There is a chart of the current weapon selection and PA caps in my sig. (Current, as in the National Servers, not the Japanese ones.)


On 2007-11-28 19:58, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
This topic needed to stay dead. :<

Seconded. But my urge to help made me bump it... ;-;



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AerisZeal on 2007-11-29 05:48 ]</font>

[Fresh]

LMAO this dumb ass thread is still going... HERE IS THE TRUTH AGAIN PEOPLE

http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fphantasystaruniverse.jp%2 Fnews%2Fwis%2F%3Fmode%3Dview%26id%3D506&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8

[PhdChristmas]

On 2007-11-29 05:47, AerisZeal wrote:
Seconded. But my urge to help made me bump it... ;-;


My urge to help make the internetz reputable source of intelligence. The way this topic uses 'speculation' is more on the grounds of a indirectly proposed rumor.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b51/Phdchristmas/gobacktoschool1.jpg

[physic]

Fortefighter: Keeps slicer, gains level 50 Skills and lowers ATA

why would you reduce FF ata? you just want to ruin a class for kicks?

honestly FF misses too much and have the worst fighting ata outside of WT (who has acess to spells that require no ata at all) Get over yourselves, FF is supposed to be the best melee dmg class, every other class that melees has a host of other skills to make up for lack of melee power. You guys need to stop comparing peoples stats versus mobs 5 levels lower than themselves. go try to use gravity break in true darkness s2, or any number of low ata skills WITH ACC UP SKILL, and they are only level 115, imagine 120-140 mobs. pssshh

Remedy, your feelings of uselessness have nothing to do with the game. FT is the best tech dmg in the game, level 40 techs and a generous amount of pp. firstly techs dont miss. even rangers miss, but not techs. they do status effects they do dmg. FT can heal buff debuff dmg and apply SE they can do a fair amount of dmg. who exactly is outdmging you? a beast FF with level 21 buffs? well honestly i think that makes perfect sense. seeing as how that requires 2 people to actually happen. Feel like other jobs coudl replace you? welp guess what, thats true of every class, take a FF out and throw in a similar leveled fig or acrofighter or even WT with similar eq and yup you ll prolly kill stuff as fast maybe 1 min slower whohoo!

[Reipard]

Yes, i do. Its useless.

Yes it is. Pointing that out is absolutely useless and redundant. I'm more bothered by that you think this actually has enough basis in what Sega is planning/has planned for master classes that you bothered to post 'lol no it's not like that'.



LMAO this dumb ass thread is still going... HERE IS THE TRUTH AGAIN PEOPLE

http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fphantasystaruniverse.jp%2 Fnews%2Fwis%2F%3Fmode%3Dview%26id%3D506&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8

Much like this person, who continues to type with his eyes closed. I don't even think he's read the thread to begin with.

[painXxX]

lol i give up then im happy with my FF/FI but anyone know were i can find the picture for the new weapon class chart? i have one but its wrong sadly =[

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-29 01:41, Zael wrote:
Acrotecher: Gains level 50 Support techs.
Fortetecher: Gains level 50 Attack techs and level 40 Support techs.I like you and everything, but go die.

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-29 06:26, physic wrote:
Remedy, your feelings of uselessness have nothing to do with the game. FT is the best tech dmg in the game, level 40 techs and a generous amount of pp. firstly techs dont miss. even rangers miss, but not techs. they do status effects they do dmg. FT can heal buff debuff dmg and apply SE they can do a fair amount of dmg. who exactly is outdmging you? a beast FF with level 21 buffs? well honestly i think that makes perfect sense. seeing as how that requires 2 people to actually happen. Feel like other jobs coudl replace you? welp guess what, thats true of every class, take a FF out and throw in a similar leveled fig or acrofighter or even WT with similar eq and yup you ll prolly kill stuff as fast maybe 1 min slower whohoo!Tech damage is the worst source of damage in the game. A well-played gunner, and ANY meleer will outdamage us, even if I'm buffed with Retier and they're not buffed with Shifta/Zodial.

ANYONE with 20+ melee can outdamage me. I guarantee that. And no, it doesn't make "perfect sense", especially with the way I play - I'm constantly on the front lines with my Gi- techs, right next to my fighters who are doing three to four times the damage I do.

Status effects? Gunners are vastly more reliable than I am for that, and they have traps when it comes down to brass tacks (AND GUESS WHAT: SO DO ACROTECHERS!), we don't. It takes forever to land Burn 4 via Foie on a larger enemy, when a Fortegunner or Guntecher could do it in way less time with a bow or rifle. (Yes, we have bows, but our ATA is pathetic, and it's quicker for us to burn via Foie than it is to burn via Bow.)

The class is pointless. The only reason people bring FTs along is that they're friends of them, or they can't get any other class to fill that gap. Maybe if we got some of the bonuses that melee classes got (Just Attack, on-Just-Counter criticals, multi-target technics hitting a single, multi-point enemy several times), we might begin to get closer to the damage output a meleer can do, but at this point and time, it's not even close.

[desturel]

On 2007-11-29 08:11, Remedy wrote:
It takes forever to land Burn 4 via Foie on a larger enemy, when a Fortegunner or Guntecher could do it in way less time with a bow or rifle. (Yes, we have bows, but our ATA is pathetic, and it's quicker for us to burn via Foie than it is to burn via Bow.)


I have no problem landing burn with the bow. Even with the low ATA of the class, the bows have a high ATA to make up for it. I typically spead burn with bows, cards (lvl 2 burn for cards now burns large enemies), and my handgun bullet (finally got my burning hit to level 30.)

If you are really desperate, you can also land burn with the whip. Although a fortetecher with a whip is asking for trouble, it is an option. The stun whip is much more useful in most situations.

If I'm throwing foie, it's for damage and if it happens to burn, then great. Otherwise I have other weapons to apply burn with.

[Remedy]

The problem with that, Desturel, is that we cannot use Vish Adac (the Stun whip).

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-11-29 08:11, Remedy wrote:
Tech damage is the worst source of damage in the game. A well-played gunner, and ANY meleer will outdamage us, even if I'm buffed with Retier and they're not buffed with Shifta/Zodial.


That's BS for the gunner comparison. The one techer I usually hang out with does very competitive damage compared to my guns... the only unusual thing she does compared to most techers is using the best technique for the enemy formation (ra, dam, linear, gi) and a correct element, rather than shooting one random tech nonstop to try and get the level up. It makes a big difference.

[physic]

FF does dmg but needs ata, techers never miss, the lower dmg is a balance for that. And its not the fact that there is better DD status effect people or buffers that gives you purpose, its the fact you can do all 3 of these things. sure i can get a guntekker, but lets be honest you have same level buffs, and way higher dmg and diversity of attack, i can get 5%more buffness with an AT but FT will outdmg an AT with level 40 techs, and higher TP mod.

FF has 168% vs 134% atp than the next closest class, trust me when i say theres a pretty big dmg difference between the max numbers a ff does and a figh wartekker or acrotecher. REALLY TAKE a look at your dps, the stutter on your attacks, the ability to hit from long mid or short range almost instantly, ability to hit 6 mobs for 1k+ in 1 second with no charge up, no weak attack first, and no chance of a miss on any of the targets. If you think FT is useless its a personal style choice about how you want to play. Even with all that atp and just attacks, im still barely or no faster than a similarly leveled Forte solo.

I think it sucks not to have JAs for entertainment purposes on other classes, but balance wise you really dont need more dmg.

[Remedy]

Uh, no, GTs have a far better diversity of attack than we do. We have techs.

And no, an AT is going to outdamage us by virtue of their melee.

[ApolloAltair]

we can all agree that PSU, more than ever, is becoming PS0. With that in mind, What if max level ends up being lv 200... or higher. The games missions would get much higher than S2. What if we end up with S7 Missions for Lvl 200 Characters. Then the "overpowered" MasterClasses would Balance out with the "overpowered" Monsters...
Sega has gotten pretty good at balancing this game... no they are not perfect, but Im sure If we could get that powerfull... we would need it.

~Till all Are one~

[physic]

AT melee is level 20, and their base atp is like 110% the weapons they have access to wont beat a FT using strong spells. GT has a 108% modifier on atp, and uses usually weapons with pretty low atp barring bow, which is single target and not very fast, FT will easily outdmg a GT, only thing GT got on FT is an ability to apply SEs faster. also has level 10 melee. and only level 20 attack spells so they aint doing much dmg in either of those categories. Techs attack in all variety of situations close range mid range or long/mid range they can stutter, knockdown, or pierce with various possible SEs this is what i mean by diversity of attack.

you really fear a ATs 808 atp vs your 2055 tp? come come now

edit: apparently its only 106%, fear that melee powa! not

AT has like 4 melee weapons,
twin daggers (require decent base atp to do any dmg)
daggers decent but really highest mod is 220% which with an ats atp isnt going to do much dmg
whip: weak dmg on many mobs, best part is the status
1hand sword: pretty good dmg, but still not hax with low atp

seeing as how i do 2k with gravity breaks first hit at level 105 15FF and 30 with the skill with 168% base atp i dont think a AT with 110% atp and a 290% mod with spinning on one target is really gonna outdmg a FT with 154% base tp and a 290% mod



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: physic on 2007-11-29 09:50 ]</font>

[__Beeb__]

AcroMaster makes no sense. AcroFighter and AcroTecher are two totally different classes, never mind Protranser.

[panzer_unit]

Acrotranser now plz.

[Sexy_Raine]

Fortetecher is bottom tier in this game. There is nothing that makes it worthwhile over Acrotecher. I've been a FT for 1800hrs, and it is worthless now under this unbalanced system. Lv30 support is not good enough for a class with weak defensive stats and pure offense techs. And AT techs aren't much weaker than FT ones, and they even get a speed boost.

Also, Sega really needs to get rid of that shitty, slower teching everytime a tech reaches the next tier( I.e lv11+, lv21+, lv31+). Only a 10% damage increase is garbage for having a slower teching animation at 31+

Now Rangers don't get slower shooting bullets at lv31+ do they? So why do techers have it?

Plz kill this topic. It's only gonna get worse.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2007-11-29 11:20 ]</font>

[AlphaDragoon]

NOTE: Not everyone is like this, but this is for those who I have heard whining like the world's gonna end.

Most people I hear complaining about how techers are "useless" are the ones who are mad that we melee guys FINALLY get some love from Sega that's been long overdue since well, PSO v2. Until then techers pretty much dominated everything with the exception of the broke as a joke melee FOmar in BB (who kinda counts because he was cheap due to...surprise, buffs) and could solo pretty much everywhere, while melee types were heavily disadvantaged unless they had gunners or techers with them.

Now melee types can finally solo things and put out the heavy hits (which IMO they should be able to do as they have the highest amount of risk involved in doing so), and techers whine. If you really wanna know who got screwed, look at the poor gunners. Techers still do ridiculously high damage even if it isn't Haxarra/Cheapy Kyoren-jin and have buffs, whereas the gunners can't do JA, can't restore PP (by nature of their weapons) and lost the Laser Cannon glitch which gave them a major damage boost. On top of it, most of the gunner types weapons are two-handed, so they can't use most of the new cool weapons such as R-Mags.

If you folks don't wanna use techers anymore then okay, I guess. I will continue to keep my Fortetecher and play happily with her, and enjoy that my Acrofighter can actually function well on his own.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AlphaDragoon on 2007-11-29 11:20 ]</font>

[Kamiense]

You know, the whole "OMG FTS ARE USELESS!!!11ONEONEONE" is beating a dead horse. Who cares? Stop bitching and play the game.

I'll keep my RODS and BOWS thank you very much. Guntechers aren't any good either since they only have 21+ buffs and lower attack. Oh noes.

Oh, and get rid of Wartecher. They suck too. Their support damage and regular damage is weak against FF. Guess we should get rid of them.

Oh no, Figunners suck too. Acrofighters beat them in slicer damage. Oh no. Delete them too.

Uh oh, Fortefighters suck too because Acrofighters are faster than them and axes are slow. Take them out of the game too.

Better take out Fortegunners as well. Their damage sucks and Acrotechers have whips to do status effects. Delete that pathetic class.

Protransers... Don't make me laugh.

There. Now we have only Acrotechers and Acrofighters left. The superior classes, that can do everything.

Seriously SHUT UP!

You can say that for any class. Stop beating the dead horse, or stop playing this game. We don't need anymore negativity on these boards.

Sheesh

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-29 11:19, AlphaDragoon wrote:
Most people I hear complaining about how techers are "useless" are the ones who are mad that we melee guys FINALLY get some love from Sega that's been long overdue since well, PSO v2.
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA

Did you like... EVER play Ultimate mode? Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, had 80+ resistances to EVERY ELEMENT OF TECHS. PERIOD. Meanwhile, HUcasts with 50 hit Charge Vulcans (easily piped and bought from the NPC shop) are able to shoot out combos of H/S/S that do something to the tune of 15,000 damage across the whole combo (1000x3, 2000x6) in the time it took any FO to cast maybe a couple of Rafoies or what have you for the godly sum of 1200 damage.

PSU is PSO Episode 5. FOnewearls (FTs) are getting the shaft that we've been getting since DC v2. There is something vastly wrong when the class with the lowest ATP and highest MST (or in this case, TP) can do more damage meleeing than they can with techs. That's how it was in PSO v2/GC/XBox/Blue Burst, and I bet that's how it would be if anyone wanted to bother making a melee Fortecher.


On 2007-11-29 11:19, AlphaDragoon wrote:
(which IMO they should be able to do as they have the highest amount of risk involved in doing so)

Excuse me. You see the little Newman next to you using Gi- technics? That's a Fortecher. She's on the front lines just as much as the meleers, taking FAR more risk than the meleers due to her abysmal HP and DFP, and is putting out maybe a quarter of the damage that meleers BEHIND HER can do with bullshit like Axes (Jabroga), Spears (Majarra), and Slicers (whatever the fuck that PA is called). There is no balance anymore. The game used to be balanced pre-Majarra/Jabroga/Slicers, but it's not anymore. It's PSO Ep5, and HUcasts (Beast FFs, in this case) reign supreme.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Remedy on 2007-11-29 11:28 ]</font>

[Sexy_Raine]

Fortegunner is far from useless. A shotgun of the correct opposite element to an enemy does an easy +2500 damage. Laser Cannons are pretty good in soloing if you know how to set it up. Boma Duranga is sick damage, and boma megiga is great at causing infection now. Rifles give you a free SE for staying far away. Oh, and they get traps too.

Gunners are far from underpowered, I'll get my Nova to prove this wrong.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2007-11-29 11:37 ]</font>

[desturel]

On 2007-11-29 08:54, Remedy wrote:
The problem with that, Desturel, is that we cannot use Vish Adac (the Stun whip).


Yes, but the point was you have access to the burn whip and freeze whip for spreading SE if you are really in a crunch. I mentioned the stun whip as the preferred weapon just as an example. Not as a "you can use this" weapon.

I also have a problem with the way you assume every class is stronger than fortetecher. The only way I can do a fair comparison is to use every class on one character. Since I've only maxed out fortetecher and guntecher to 15 on my neuman, those are the only two I can compare without any bias at the moment. (My beast is a fortegunner and fortefighter. My Human has no forte class leveled so again, no way to make a comparison). It also helps that neuman get a bonus on guntecher and fortetecher. It wouldn't be fair to compare a cast fortetecher to a cast fortegunner due to race bonuses.

Overall I'd say that both of them are equally powerful in different ways. Sure guntecher is easier to play, but ease of use does not always equal more powerful.

As a fortetecher, I kill packs of enemies quicker. When killing solo enemies, guntecher is faster. When soloing most of the new missions, I could complete the missions faster as a fortetecher.

For example, the AMF mission base. Alternating between megid, diga, gidiga, gifoie and gizonde (for shocking groups), I'm able to clear the mission in about 75 min. solo as a fortetecher.

With my guntecher I mainly stick to killer shot, megid, Yak Megiga, Insei-sou and diga. It takes a bit more than 100 minutes to solo (both runing S).

Now, that 100 minutes was much easier as a guntecher. For one I had more HP so during the fifth block when I'm surrounded by casts with sword and rifles, I could take more damage before healing. But I had to kill things mostly one at a time while my techer could spam gifoie to set multiple enemies on fire. Megid is also more effective at level 21 than at level 20. You don't really notice the difference until you use it past 21. I tried using Barada Banga, but it was a bit too stationary for the good of my health. gifoie pushed the enemies behind me as well as infront of me to preform a safety ring of sorts (until getting shot by the rifles). The shotgun only hit the enemies in front of me leaving my back unprotected. Xbow and cards were the best way to spread mobile damage.

Sakura Blast was a bit closer because I could use burn traps (very few things on AMF burn, so it's a waste of traps to use them.). Also I didn't have to worry about being swarmed (lol Booma) from behind, so I could use any of the techs/bullets I had leveled. In the end, the difference in damage gi and rafoie made up for use of traps on selected enemies. It took 30 minutes as a fT and 40 minutes as a guntecher.

Now I'm sure I can do 30 minutes as a guntecher. Yak Banga, Ensei-sou and Ensei-shiki would be great, however my Yak Banga, and Ensei-shiki are both rather low level (11 for banga 16 for shiki) due to not having the PA space for them prior to the AotI update, so I was stuck with just Ensei-sou for much of the run. Once I get my bullets leveled up properly, I'm sure it will pull me to par with my fortetecher in terms of time spent. The big difference appears to be that foie kills Ubakrada quite efficiently.

Lightning beast isn't even comparable. Diga, Damdiga, Gidiga, nosdiga with a bit of Ensei-sou for the laughably easy lightning Jarba, you can solo this mission as a fortetecher in about 18 minutes. The only trouble comes at the end with the tech resistant shields, but even then ensei-sou goes right through that nonsense. Guntecher is also easy, however I don't have barada diga leveled (level 8 currently) so I run into the problem of having to pick things off one at a time. Maybe I should try the machinegun.

I haven't run the new moatoob missions solo yet so I can't make a comparison for those (someone is always over there when I go). I can guess that fortetecher would be better for the ice mission (ice bil + foie + ice armor and freeze resist = lol dead bil). But guntecher would be easier for the earth mission (zonde != diga. Plus lots of silence. Lightning whip doesn't not make up for getting hit in the head with mass tons of diga)

Anyway, to get back to the point. Fortetecher isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Sure it would be better if weren't gimped with one hit kill level HP, ra spells that take up half a room, but only hit three creatures, line techs that only hit one target, and garbage atp and ata, but if you wanted to live the easy life, you wouldn't have chosen to play a foretecher in the first place. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif