Wartechers and Fighgunners

[Morganna]

Is there still a use for them in the expansion?

[pikachief]

Wartechers are even better in the expansion!

The get whips and slicers and madoogs! They aslo get S rank wands!

attack techs to 30 along withstriking PAs to 30!

Its the ultimate fighter for both magic and attack!

also with some lvl 20 support on the side... cuz u know u gotta have it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

it is the only class in the game that can get whips to 30 http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Acrofighter are faster and stronger than fighgunners but the smaller weapon selection makes me wanna go back to fihggunner sometimes http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: pikachief on 2007-11-07 22:13 ]</font>

[Zorafim]

Wartechers are less gimped, and fighgunners are of similar use as they are now. So, I suppose the answer is "yes".

I still think they're terribly unattractive jobs, though.

[Nai_Calus]

AF is not stronger than FI. There are some levels where AF briefly has a higher ATP mod, but by class level 15 FI once again overtakes AF.

AF, despite being a RA hybrid, also has a pretty miserable selection of ranged weapons IMO, in addition to a pretty miserable selection of melee weapons.

There's still plenty of use for FI.

WT also actually works as a class now and outside of a lack of S-ranks, I have no complaints.

[pikachief]

On 2007-11-07 22:17, Ian-KunX wrote:
AF is not stronger than FI. There are some levels where AF briefly has a higher ATP mod, but by class level 15 FI once again overtakes AF.

AF, despite being a RA hybrid, also has a pretty miserable selection of ranged weapons IMO, in addition to a pretty miserable selection of melee weapons.

There's still plenty of use for FI.

WT also actually works as a class now and outside of a lack of S-ranks, I have no complaints.



oh i jsut saw a few levels where AF was stronger than FIG so i asumed. thanks for clearing that up.

Ok tehy are stronger with a higher selection of weapons as well! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Morganna]

I just looked at psupedia and it doesn't list wartechers as being able to use slicers. Is there any place I can find updated class information?

But...slicers + whips = 0.0 HELL YEAH

[razkal]

yeah slicers + whips would make me sway that way.

[Xencia]

WTs can't use Slicers,only ForteFighter,FighGunner,and AcroFighter can. So it's more of a focused hunter weapon,while the whip is the new techer weapon.

[SolomonGrundy]

WTs: great for Solo, somewhat ho-hum on a team (but tough little nuts to crack)

FiG: possibly best job post expansion (level 30 Xbows, ftw)

[pikachief]

On 2007-11-08 04:50, Morganna wrote:
I just looked at psupedia and it doesn't list wartechers as being able to use slicers. Is there any place I can find updated class information?

But...slicers + whips = 0.0 HELL YEAH



oh im sorry XD

Shadoogs.... i knew it was one of those...

its shadoogs right?


On 2007-11-08 07:59, SolomonGrundy wrote:
WTs: great for Solo, somewhat ho-hum on a team (but tough little nuts to crack)

FiG: possibly best job post expansion (level 30 Xbows, ftw)



Yea im gonna pin down an enemy with an ice Xbow then absoulute dance them to death.

That PA is awesome...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: pikachief on 2007-11-08 08:04 ]</font>

[Kismet]

On 2007-11-08 07:59, SolomonGrundy wrote:
WTs: great for Solo, somewhat ho-hum on a team (but tough little nuts to crack)


"Ho-hum on a team"? Dude, wtf are you talking about? We can either help kick ass, or help to keep the party alive and working at maximum efficiency (for the WTs who invest in buffs). We are not "ho-hum" anywhere. But we ARE the ultimate soloers.


On 2007-11-07 22:16, Zorafim wrote:
Wartechers are less gimped, and fighgunners are of similar use as they are now. So, I suppose the answer is "yes".

I still think they're terribly unattractive jobs, though.


WT is probably unattractive to most, but um... Fighgunner is the most likely the most popular class on PSU. So how is it unattractive?

[Remedy]

The only real group that needs to worry about their usefulness is Fortecher.

*leaves topic now before it becomes a war*

[Kismet]

On 2007-11-08 08:22, Remedy wrote:
The only real group that needs to worry about their usefulness is Fortecher.

*leaves topic now before it becomes a war*



No, come back! You're 100% right. XD

[Koji1m1]

hmmm yeah i got a feeling that thiers gonna be alot more wartechers or there gonna be freaking eveywhere when aoi comes out (which is 2 weeks here in the US) but i think ill stick to fighgunner or switch to fortefighter because i hear they can use a few new S-ranks.

[Kismet]

On 2007-11-08 08:25, Koji1m1 wrote:
hmmm yeah i got a feeling that thiers gonna be alot more wartechers or there gonna be freaking eveywhere when aoi comes out (which is 2 weeks here in the US) but i think ill stick to fighgunner or switch to fortefighter because i hear they can use a few new S-ranks.



OMG, don't say that. I like being one the few WTs. Makes me feels sepcial/unique. XD (Also, we're like the oddballs of parties, which is fun.) If WT's popularity became the equivalent of FI's... I'd be flawed. XD

(I also am a FI, but WT is my specialty. I only became FI for the ATP, double sabers, twin handguns, and to level up my PAs early. Unlike most people who just become them to fit in with the crowd. <_<)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kismet on 2007-11-08 08:31 ]</font>

[Omega_Weltall]

On 2007-11-08 08:22, Remedy wrote:
The only real group that needs to worry about their usefulness is Fortecher.

*leaves topic now before it becomes a war*



must...resist...urge....resist... must resist...errrrrrrFTnotjustahealbot! (why is nukeing so frowned upon in this game) anyway I was debateing weather or not to make my alt WT, she's already FI. I may go AT for whips, but I hear they arent that great. i donno...

[SolomonGrundy]

"Ho-hum on a team"? Dude, wtf are you talking about? We can either help kick ass, or help to keep the party alive and working at maximum efficiency (for the WTs who invest in buffs). We are not "ho-hum" anywhere. But we ARE the ultimate soloers.

With the lowest buffs, no one will want a WT to buff them. Supporting is fine, but I have to be honest, in a 6 person group things die too fast, and in a 4 person group, it's often easier to gulp a trimate then hope the part time supporter will drop a resta. Helping kick as is possible, when I say ho-hum, I just mean lower melee damage, lower tech damage, and lower ranged damage.

That being said I have a WT, and enjoy the toughness of the class.

[Kinako78]

Yes, if a superior buffer is in the party, they wouldn't want the WT to, but if WT's the only buffer in the party, beggers can't be choosers, now can they?

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-08 08:38, Omega_Weltall wrote:
must...resist...urge....resist... must resist...errrrrrrFTnotjustahealbot! (why is nukeing so frowned upon in this game)What can a player provide to a party in the scope of game mechanics? Damage, and support. Fortechers are already slipping in the former to all manner of melee classes, and now we're going to be losing our grip on support superiourity - an Acrotecher can outsupport (and probably outdamage) us, and a Guntecher can provide the same support as us with even more damage and versatility (traps, etc).

It's not even a matter of "hurr i dun wanna nuke i just wanna support". It's a matter of the class having any redeeming factors at all.

(I love nuking, by the way. Ask anyone that knew me in PSO:BB. I fought the inevitable of becoming a melee Force for AGES. I love my nukes, but I love even more my contribution to a party as a supporter. That is fading very fast in PSU, and a vast deal of that has to do with the community.)

[Kylie]

AF and AT are less useful to a beast than FI or WT, yet they're obviously of more use to other races. From what I've seen from the classes on the expansion, they've made an effort to make things more balanced.

[Omega_Weltall]

eh ok, I can see that. Tried nukeing as WT once, it sucked, better off being a 2nd healer http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif. i just hope the lv 40 attack techs are much better than they seem( i doubt it)
.
I just dont wanna hear the;

Them: Stop nukeing and heal!
Me: BITCH YOU'ER AT FULL HEALTH AND YOU RAN FROM MY BUFFS!

[creativehope]

So basically what we are saying is that fortetechers will be useless when the expansion comes around because we can no longer be the best in support nor can we do the most damage. Well this will be like the first time I started the game. BACK TO SOLOING FOR ME http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Mystil]

On 2007-11-08 08:25, Koji1m1 wrote:
hmmm yeah i got a feeling that thiers gonna be alot more wartechers or there gonna be freaking eveywhere when aoi comes out (which is 2 weeks here in the US) but i think ill stick to fighgunner or switch to fortefighter because i hear they can use a few new S-ranks.


We will be able to use Srank twin sabers and sabers.

Big deal if you ask me.

[Kylie]

On 2007-11-08 08:56, creativehope wrote:
So basically what we are saying is that fortetechers will be useless when the expansion comes around because we can no longer be the best in support nor can we do the most damage. Well this will be like the first time I started the game. BACK TO SOLOING FOR ME http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif



Well, they have more TP, and they are the only class that has LV40 attack spells, right? As for healing... they'll be better than WT because they have more TP, but I guess AT will take the crown for healing. But it's not like more healing power makes much of a difference; as long as they heal 1,000+ HP per resta, I think they'll be fine.



Them: Stop nukeing and heal!
Me: BITCH YOU'ER AT FULL HEALTH AND YOU RAN FROM MY BUFFS!
I'll avoid that by:
1) Not buying buffs.
2) Either telling the person that says that off, or making an effort never to play a mission with them again after they say that.

I respect people's play styles, and I expect the same decency. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Remedy]

The issue of our damage potential has always existed. Our claim to fame has always been our support. Now that the support superiourity is being taken from us, our "usefulness" is based on our damage output, all things being equal.

I dunno. It's really not worth arguing about it, really. I wish people would just quit giving me shit when I state my beliefs about it. I'm a whole lot more "we're gonna suck, but we always have" about it now, and I'll just be a Fortecher, and if I get booted for it, c'est la vie.

(That, and because I've been instructed to hold my tongue or face forum suspension.)

[SolomonGrundy]

The issue of our damage potential has always existed. Our claim to fame has always been our front line support. Now that the support superiourity is being taken from us, our "usefulness" is based on our damage output, all things being equal.

you are talking about WTs here, right? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Remedy]

No, a WT's claim to fame is being the one that is still there and still kicking after the fragile FT at his/her side gets killed due to their fragility, and can get the FT (or AT now, I guess) back on their feet so the FT can resume their job of support.

FTs and WTs do very well to work in tandem with each other, one supporting the other so the other can support everyone. It's very nice when I can find a good WT who keeps a special eye on me so I can keep my broader eyes on the whole party.

[Kylie]

So a wartecher is a forte techer's forte techer? o_O

[Gen2000]

Whips seems it will either make or break Wartechers (I hear it supposedly it makes them godly only below the the Slicer able melee classes but I need to hear from more than one source about that). They won't really have anything else outstanding going for them compared to other classes. People can carry 20 Buff Items n an upcoming update, that is more than enough to not worry if the WT will give you some of their last resort buffs.

Fighgunners, even though the power gap between them and Fortefighters at 110/15 is actually worth noting now compared to PSUv1's FiG vs. fF at 100/10, they still seem to be fine. The STA nerf kinda makes the whole Xbow SE3 hype not worth getting excited over anymore though I guess it's nice to have "free" Virus Gs in the form of Dark Xbow which spreads SE much faster than Twin Handgun/Card spam when doing robot filled missions. They still have good ATP and lv.40 melee cap power to put behind spears or other good boss killing weapons for when Slicers isn't the best option of damage dealing. From a solo point of view, FiGs seem pretty damn awesome in AoI, maybe as good as Fortegunners or better(?!) in that area.

Wartechers isn't anywhere close to ultimate soloers btw.

[Remedy]

I wouldn't say that's their only duty (just like an FT's support isn't her only duty at this time), but I'd say it's the one they shine most at. They can do respectable damage in both melee and techs (something that we can't say), but they can survive things that the Fortecher beside them cannot, and so they're able to get that Fortecher back on their feet so the Fortecher can resume her support.

It's a very nice relationship between the classes, IMO.

[Sekani]

On 2007-11-08 09:09, Remedy wrote:
I dunno. It's really not worth arguing about it, really. I wish people would just quit giving me shit when I state my beliefs about it. I'm a whole lot more "we're gonna suck, but we always have" about it now, and I'll just be a Fortecher, and if I get booted for it, c'est la vie.

There's nothing wrong with stating your beliefs. What you have done over the past month is not so much stating but whining, bitching, moaning, complaining, crying, bawling, pouting, and throwing a hissy fit all because someone gets higher support techs than fortetechers (spell it right). I swear sometimes I just want to hack the internet for the sole purpose of punching you in the mouth so you'll shut up.

Random groups won't give a shit what level the buffs/resta are as long as they get them. Parties love full-time nurses, and I get the feeling that fortetechers are still gonna be the prime candidates for that job for various reasons.

Back to the original topic, my two characters are both a wartecher and a fighgunner and I have little to no interest in either of the acro classes. The PA limits and weapon selection don't appeal to me. I'm thinking of trying guntecher though, they'll be awesome now that they don't have dimate resta.

[Kylie]

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Yeah, I suppose. I've still yet to get into my WT mode again (most of which I blame on the 1UP event because no one I play with wants to play anymore), so I'm a total dits about healing people. I hope to get better at it by the time the expansion is out, but we'll see. I'm most excited about the LV30 skills because I felt like that was the most crippling part of being a beast wartecher on PSU: Vanilla. I don't plan on getting too involved in my TECHs besides healing ones, foie, dambarta, and maybe a couple of Gi / Nos attacks; and I refuse, REFUSE to ever get buffs because I just... I guess I'm just lazy. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Remedy]

So because I'm passionate in what I believe in, it's "whining" or whatever derogatory word you want to call it? Please. You're predisposed against me (but then again, most of this community is because of the actions of one very giant bitch who, thankfully, is banned here).

I'm leaving this topic before I end up going across the line I've been asked to obey.

[Reipard]

I think Wartechers and FIghGunners will be great in AOI. Due to the inclusion of Just Attack/Just Counter their melee will be better than ever and Fighs will have more reason to use their Double Sabers. Wartechers will have SE4 techs to fight melee resistant enemies with too. Sure, they won't inflict status as fast as even a FighGunner would but it'd be much better than having no SE4 at all.

[-Tidus_415-]

FF > WT = AF > FI

[Reipard]

FF > WT = AF > FI

Fortefighters are fighter specialists. So it stands to reason their melee is better.
Acrofighters though, have weapon selection that frankly sucks. FGs have that way over Acrofighter.

[Kylie]

On 2007-11-08 09:42, Reipard wrote:

FF > WT = AF > FI

Fortefighters are fighter specialists. So it stands to reason their melee is better.
Acrofighters though, have weapon selection that frankly sucks. FGs have that way over Acrofighter.


I agree. >_< Besides, you have to look at it as a racial thing too and what's better suited for whatever. Such as WT is going to be the best choice for a beast that wants to dab their feet in some TECH stuff (me). Figh is also going to be a better choice for a beast than AF; for a CAST though, AF would be better suited. But that's based on stats alone. I don't mind if a friend wants to be a CAST FI or whatever. In fact, none of my characters now play stereotypical roles. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[LTrav2k]

On 2007-11-08 09:24, Remedy wrote:
No, a WT's claim to fame is being the one that is still there and still kicking after the fragile FT at his/her side gets killed due to their fragility, and can get the FT (or AT now, I guess) back on their feet so the FT can resume their job of support.

FTs and WTs do very well to work in tandem with each other, one supporting the other so the other can support everyone. It's very nice when I can find a good WT who keeps a special eye on me so I can keep my broader eyes on the whole party.



I agree with this 100% actually, as WT do a good job of softening things up so that the FT can fulfill their role of support without such a risk of death.

There's a big difference for a FT trying to debuff a level 100 King Vahra which hasn't been touched, versus one that's been already hit with level 2 debuffs.

If a guy who's almost dead can catch a heal on the front lines which gives them time to ether pop a 'mate, or run to the FT so the full heal can happen out of harm's way... that teamwork makes people smile.

I'm excited for WT because we'll be able to slap around SEs a bit more effectively (level 30+ attack techs, level 20 bullets for bow/cards, whips)... and the ATP/ATA boost from level 21+ PA skills is definitely going to help us out in the melee department.

(Also, since normal attacks are going to regen some PP... the expansion takes care of my worry in regards to Technic cancelling being expensive. Yay!)

[-Tidus_415-]

On 2007-11-08 10:04, Kylie wrote:
Such as WT is going to be the best choice for a beast that wants to dab their feet in some TECH stuff (me).

How is a beast best for WT? 80% ATA mod + Beast = Loads of 0's

[Kylie]

On 2007-11-08 10:14, -Tidus_415- wrote:

On 2007-11-08 10:04, Kylie wrote:
Such as WT is going to be the best choice for a beast that wants to dab their feet in some TECH stuff (me).

How is a beast best for WT? 80% ATA mod + Beast = Loads of 0's


Best for a beast that wants a little TECH with their skills. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif So compared to AT and FT, WT is definitely going to be the best option. Not saying beasts are better at WT than they are FF or even FI or AF, but in that regard, I say, "I don't care." http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[-Tidus_415-]

On 2007-11-08 10:26, Kylie wrote:

On 2007-11-08 10:14, -Tidus_415- wrote:

On 2007-11-08 10:04, Kylie wrote:
Such as WT is going to be the best choice for a beast that wants to dab their feet in some TECH stuff (me).

How is a beast best for WT? 80% ATA mod + Beast = Loads of 0's


Best for a beast that wants a little TECH with their skills. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif So compared to AT and FT, WT is definitely going to be the best option. Not saying beasts are better at WT than they are FF or even FI or AF, but in that regard, I say, "I don't care." http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



Oh I misunderstood then. I thought you ment that beast was the best race for a WT.

[Kylie]

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif No! I would think a human would do best at it; of course, they don't have great ATA either. Erm... and my friend has a newman WT and says that the lack of ATP is so crippling and frustrating that it overshadows the extra TP for TECHs. *shrugs* To be honest, I've become less sure of being a beast WT with this topic, other topics, talk on the game. But I guess I won't really know how much power I'm sacrificing until I try it out in two weeks.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kylie on 2007-11-08 10:41 ]</font>

[Seira7]

On 2007-11-08 09:37, Remedy wrote:
So because I'm passionate in what I believe in, it's "whining" or whatever derogatory word you want to call it? Please. You're predisposed against me (but then again, most of this community is because of the actions of one very giant bitch who, thankfully, is banned here).

I'm leaving this topic before I end up going across the line I've been asked to obey.



Honestly, as someone who visits this site infrequently and just for info... I hate to get into the drama, but from an outsiders point of view you fill up a lot of posts with tons of useless, depressing spam.

Anyhoo, I will probably go back to playing cast WT when AOI hits, mainly for the whips and madoogs (both look sexy on a cast I think) ... I used to use her for soloing and she'll just be better at it now. I'd rather play GT in a group but its nice to have options. Im curious about the STA changes in AOI though - should I stop leveling my xbows and stick with rifles. bows and traps if it will be harder to stick status effects with my GT I wonder~
if xbows arent as useful too (and shadoogs are more effective) I may end up going AF with my human instead of FiG.

[majan]

I made my cast a fortegunner until the expansion hits for one reason only:
level 30 bullets for fighgunners.

its the only class where you can whip out gravity break,do ~1800 damage per shot,then put it away and take out a crossbow with yak zagenga and do 1200-1300 per shot on a single target.terms of DPS and balanced versatility,fighgunners are going to shit all over many of the other classes.say what you want about the acro classes having better stats and whatnot but a fighgunner with a hard power charge is a formidable force when he has an answer for pretty much everything the game can throw at him.

wartechers get level 30 megid which is the equivalent of killer shot,making them extremely versatile too.theyre the only class that will be killing things effectively that other melee users cannot(i.e machines) and status effecting with bows,and doing decent melee damage too.

if ST wanted to phase classes out of the game,they would have taken them out.each job still has its use,its a matter of versatility and style of play,which is for us to choose.they wouldnt have set up the game such that one class has an overwhelming advantage over another.every class is rigged up stupidly on some level,these 2 classes for the reasons I just said.acro classes are rigged with high stats and faster attack(and tech) speed.fortefighters are rigged because their ATP multiplier is wtf.fortegunners are already immensely powerful.fortetechers will get level 40 spells which will probably demolish generally everything.guntechers are the solo experts being able to buff and heal themselves and DPS quite heavily too with crossbows and machineguns.

every class has its use and it probably will never change.

[Mystil]

On 2007-11-08 10:14, -Tidus_415- wrote:

On 2007-11-08 10:04, Kylie wrote:
Such as WT is going to be the best choice for a beast that wants to dab their feet in some TECH stuff (me).

How is a beast best for WT? 80% ATA mod + Beast = Loads of 0's



Actually its the low TP that is a lot more noticable.


Sekani wrote:

Random groups won't give a shit what level the buffs/resta are as long as they get them. Parties love full-time nurses, and I get the feeling that fortetechers are still gonna be the prime candidates for that job for various reasons.
This is also what I believe. ATs having 40 support doesn't mean they'll be willing to use them.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mystil on 2007-11-08 11:11 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mystil on 2007-11-08 11:12 ]</font>

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-08 11:08, Mystil wrote:
This is also what I believe. ATs having 40 support doesn't mean they'll be willing to use them.
Any ATs who don't have level 31+ buffs/Giresta/Reverser are about as useless and lame as FTs who don't have 21+ buffs/Giresta/Reverser right now. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[DraginHikari]

I'm pretty much sticking with Figunner even with the other classes around, so far the class has worked pretty well for me since I could care less of 'teh numberz' mentality. Really if you like some particular setup then all around use it to your hearts content. And honsety I never picked Figunner because it's popular that's just silly to even think about.

[Kylie]

On 2007-11-08 11:08, Mystil wrote:
Actually its the low TP that is a lot more noticable.

I'll admit that that's true, which is why I won't be using many TECH attacks when or if I'm WT. I'll be using skills and resta, most of the time.

[Mystil]

On 2007-11-08 11:19, Remedy wrote:

On 2007-11-08 11:08, Mystil wrote:
This is also what I believe. ATs having 40 support doesn't mean they'll be willing to use them.
Any ATs who don't have level 31+ buffs/Giresta/Reverser are about as useless and lame as FTs who don't have 21+ buffs/Giresta/Reverser right now. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


They might have them, but only leveled for thier own use(solo work). There is already plenty "selfish" FTs that do this, those will most likely be the main AT flockers.

[Dragwind]

They're both great classes imo, but I also find nothing wrong with any class so meh. Boils down on how you like to play. It's more of a playstyle/battle situation thing.

With the boosted stats, I don't see why anyone would use "damage input" as a complaint for either class sucking. Do you really need to go forte to clear a mission 3 minutes faster? lol

[Phetty]

Why does everyone say AF has a poor weapon selection? I think it fits them fine. Seeing as Single-handed weapons seem to be their main focus. Not only that but they're the only hunter type that can heal themselves without using techs or mates.

[Randomness]

Wartechers will never be dethroned as the ultimate mix of all areas!

But I will have to try acrotecher to see how it compares to FT and WT... The idea of lightning fast casting with Madoogs and a Har/Quick is appealing.

[Reipard]

Not only that but they're the only hunter type that can heal themselves without using techs or mates.

This is the first I've heard of that. Would you mind clarifying?

[GeekRuler]

Protransers all the way.
To make this post relevant to this thread, Guntechers will be totally awesome in AoI weapon selection *swoon* and lvl 30 Support *double swoon*

Now back to my first statement... is there any place that lists the stat changes for the classes (mainly Protranser please and thank you :3)

[Ryoki]

On 2007-11-07 22:10, Morganna wrote:
Is there still a use for them in the expansion?


Nope. Might as well kill me, and anyone else who plays WT or FI, since you won't be needing them.

[Katryn]

I think that every class in the game has gotten something awesome, and there is no class that "should not exist". What there is, my friends, is many of us who forget that what matters more then any stats or race / class comparison is who is behind the controls.

For example: I am a beast. I have been playing the game since the very beginning and Katryn was my first (and is still my only arguable main) character. I chose to make her a beast because they look cool and the part about nanoblasting sounded fun to me. I also liked the idea of having good hp since my eyes and hands are not the fastest. (I Have partial paralysis in my right hand).

In a "perfect world", according to many elists / extremists that I have encountered in this game, all beasts would be fortefighters, all casts would be fortegunners and all newmans would be fortetecher (or perhaps arcotecher? We'll get to that.) Humans, in many of these people's views, should not exist because they do not specifically excel at anything.

But this theory, to me, fails miseribly for two reasons:

(1) It is insanely boring

(2) It does not take into account the human aspect of how the game is played.

I am a beast wartecher. I have been ever since the advanced classes came out. I am rather slow at popping a trimate (because of the hand issue) but I can save me and anyone in range with my wand. I do not die. Ever. Unless its magid (and that applies to anyone, lmao) I recently tried being a fortefighter to try and understand the "true purpose" (rotflmao) of my race, and it bored me to tears and I totally sucked at it (which to these elitists would case them to question my "right" to exist in the game, I suppose...)

My point is this: people need to care as much about enjoying what they play as having the best stats for there race. All the stats and armor in the world cannot change if you love or hate something. And don't tell me I should "start over". It took me a year to reach lvl 93 and if you think I am Ever doing that again, you are sorely mistaken, lol.

At any rate, that is my 2 cents.

[Jennara]

On 2007-11-08 13:45, Dragwind wrote:
They're both great classes imo, but I also find nothing wrong with any class so meh. Boils down on how you like to play. It's more of a playstyle/battle situation thing.

With the boosted stats, I don't see why anyone would use "damage input" as a complaint for either class sucking. Do you really need to go forte to clear a mission 3 minutes faster? lol

You win the whole thread. Actually...

On 2007-11-08 14:47, Katryn wrote:
I think that every class in the game has gotten something awesome, and there is no class that "should not exist". What there is, my friends, is many of us who forget that what matters more then any stats or race / class comparison is who is behind the controls.

So do you. I guess you guys will just half to share the trophy. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif
Seriously though...there is no "best class." Or "best race". And even race/class combinations, IMO, are not that big a deal. This isn't WOW or FF11 where that extra bit of DPS cause you picked Race A for this class instead of Race B could mean the difference between survival and death. Play what you like, play what's fun, and (in order to avoid all the elitists who believe otherwise) play with FRIENDS. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif
I will say that the original version of the classes could have been balanced a bit better; WT included. But in AoI, those problems are being fixed. And for my part, I'm ecstatic that the addition of Madoogs and the ability to cast and melee from one Palette slot will allow my Newman WT to be what she was SUPPOSED to be in the first place: a HUnewearl!! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Ken_Silver]

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On 2007-11-08 13:45, Dragwind wrote:
They're both great classes imo, but I also find nothing wrong with any class so meh. Boils down on how you like to play. It's more of a playstyle/battle situation thing.

With the boosted stats, I don't see why anyone would use "damage input" as a complaint for either class sucking. Do you really need to go forte to clear a mission 3 minutes faster? lol


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You win the whole thread. Actually...
Quote:
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On 2007-11-08 14:47, Katryn wrote:
I think that every class in the game has gotten something awesome, and there is no class that "should not exist". What there is, my friends, is many of us who forget that what matters more then any stats or race / class comparison is who is behind the controls.


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So do you. I guess you guys will just half to share the trophy.
Seriously though...there is no "best class." Or "best race". And even race/class combinations, IMO, are not that big a deal. This isn't WOW or FF11 where that extra bit of DPS cause you picked Race A for this class instead of Race B could mean the difference between survival and death. Play what you like, play what's fun, and (in order to avoid all the elitists who believe otherwise) play with FRIENDS.
I will say that the original version of the classes could have been balanced a bit better; WT included. But in AoI, those problems are being fixed. And for my part, I'm ecstatic that the addition of Madoogs and the ability to cast and melee from one Palette slot will allow my Newman WT to be what she was SUPPOSED to be in the first place: a HUnewearl!!



You guys win the thread. I hope that no one is shallow enough to truly judge someone based on their class and race. Debating the idea is fine with me until the cows come home, but once you forget that the actions are dependent on the person's skills is when you need to back up a little and remember "It's not about whether you win or loose, but how you play the game."

Honestly, I chose to be a WT only because you can fight with Knuckles, Bows and heal at the same time. LOL.

[Morganna]

On 2007-11-08 14:33, Ryoki wrote:

On 2007-11-07 22:10, Morganna wrote:
Is there still a use for them in the expansion?


Nope. Might as well kill me, and anyone else who plays WT or FI, since you won't be needing them.



Was that sarcasm? I couldn't tell...

[Mystil]

The problem here is a lot of WT/FIs/FTs are reading too deeply into what other classes can do beside thier own.


You wanna do FF damage, but you don't wont to be subject to anti-melee resistance and all the evading.

You wanna be the best supporter but you're not satisfied with being the top tech damage dealer.

You wanna be versatile, you're already versatile, but you wanna do fortegunner and fortefighter damage.

In a room with jarbas you have a setup of: 2 FFs, 1 FI 1WT. Guess which two are not SOL?


Every class has a use, and every class has advantages and disadvantages.

Class hating/being picky is only for the "elite". So..you will NOT be booted for being either of said classes.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mystil on 2007-11-08 21:03 ]</font>

[Kismet]

On 2007-11-08 08:40, SolomonGrundy wrote:

"Ho-hum on a team"? Dude, wtf are you talking about? We can either help kick ass, or help to keep the party alive and working at maximum efficiency (for the WTs who invest in buffs). We are not "ho-hum" anywhere. But we ARE the ultimate soloers.

With the lowest buffs, no one will want a WT to buff them. Supporting is fine, but I have to be honest, in a 6 person group things die too fast, and in a 4 person group, it's often easier to gulp a trimate then hope the part time supporter will drop a resta. Helping kick as is possible, when I say ho-hum, I just mean lower melee damage, lower tech damage, and lower ranged damage.

That being said I have a WT, and enjoy the toughness of the class.



I didn't mean that a WT would serve as the main buffer if a better one was there. A WT 'COULD' buff if they were the ONLY buffer there. They can also heal if there is no other/better healer there. (And WTs don't even HAVE any ranged damage. XD)

Dragwind does a very good job of giving the support most people don't expect WTs to be capable of, though...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kismet on 2007-11-08 21:31 ]</font>

[Gen2000]

Heh, people always pulling the "everythings balance, everything's great, everything's sunshine and flowers" card but things like this 1up event kinda showed true colors of what players really think of the classes. I don't care what anyone plays I just found that interesting though.

[Schubalts]

On 2007-11-08 14:19, Reipard wrote:

Not only that but they're the only hunter type that can heal themselves without using techs or mates.

This is the first I've heard of that. Would you mind clarifying?



The HP draining Bullet for Cards.

[Xencia]

There is also a hp draining bullet for handguns,that any class can get.

[Reipard]

And Guntecher and Fortetecher can get that card bullet too http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.

[Nai_Calus]

Sonichi, the Shadoog everybody got at the start of JP AoI in their common box, also steals HP. (Along with causing really fucking annoying knockback like the second hit of Rising Strike.)

...Of course, Shadoogs are pretty much useless, but hey.

[ljkkjlcm9]

On 2007-11-09 05:39, Reipard wrote:
And Guntecher and Fortetecher can get that card bullet too http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.


and acrofighter come expansion, another melee class

THE JACKEL

[Pengfishh]

A class that can heal themselves with Card bullets while lacking the use of wands. I'm excited, anyway.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-11-08 23:24, Gen2000 wrote:
Heh, people always pulling the "everythings balance, everything's great, everything's sunshine and flowers" card but things like this 1up event kinda showed true colors of what players really think of the classes. I don't care what anyone plays I just found that interesting though.


Classes are balanced by being better or worse at specific tasks. Sure IN GENERAL there are good reasons to roll with anything, once there's a specific task to do it should be pretty clear what job(s) you should switch to in order to do it right.

[Sekani]

On 2007-11-09 08:06, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-11-08 23:24, Gen2000 wrote:
Heh, people always pulling the "everythings balance, everything's great, everything's sunshine and flowers" card but things like this 1up event kinda showed true colors of what players really think of the classes. I don't care what anyone plays I just found that interesting though.


Classes are balanced by being better or worse at specific tasks. Sure IN GENERAL there are good reasons to roll with anything, once there's a specific task to do it should be pretty clear what job(s) you should switch to in order to do it right.


And when that time comes, seems that only jobs with "forte" in them count for anything as far as the playerbase in general is concerned.

[SolomonGrundy]

Worse than that. Neudiaz and Colony EX missions were dominated by CAST rangers. Universe 1 was a cesspool of people posting "85+ CAST only, need 1 for A"

(either using killer shot to take out the robots, multible SUVs to take out the Goazorans at the end).

I daresay that this will also be the case for Parum for the Jarba EX mission, for people wanting to get stuff form the EX boxes.

However, I'm ok with that as this is not 'normal' play...And I have cast ranger.

[panzer_unit]

Fortes are easier jobs to manage. You fight. You fight. You shoot. You heal/buff/nuke.

Want props for hybrid classes?
Start a random team. Having one or two hybrid types means that just about any other combination of jobs will work ok. Not optimally, like you want in 1Up, but pretty good. For most S2 missions, I'll set my cast up as a PT and all I need is one other pair of feet before I figure I'm good to go.
Look for missions where one character type is at a real disadvantage... Fighters in Grove, techers in Rainbow Beast, gunners in Valley of Carnage. You'll always benefit from having every type covered to some degree, but there are times where you'll get a LOT more value out of someone who just does it part-time and has other skills that will help more with the rest of the mission.

Protranser's my favorite job in the game by far, but I spend less than half my time on it. Why? Most missions aren't demanding enough to make the additional effort and raw output tradeoffs of PT worthwhile.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-11-09 09:18 ]</font>

[Reipard]

and acrofighter come expansion, another melee class

And Wartecher, yet another melee class.

[Jennara]

On 2007-11-08 17:14, Ken_Silver wrote:
You guys win the thread. I hope that no one is shallow enough to truly judge someone based on their class and race. Debating the idea is fine with me until the cows come home, but once you forget that the actions are dependent on the person's skills is when you need to back up a little and remember "It's not about whether you win or loose, but how you play the game."

Honestly, I chose to be a WT only because you can fight with Knuckles, Bows and heal at the same time. LOL.


Whee, I win too! Now we have to split the trophy THREE ways though. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif hehe
But ya...I think (as others have said) there are obviously certain situations where one class or another will excel/have a harder time. Up against an enemy that is, for any reason, best dealt with at long range or with Bullets, a GT or FG will outshine a FF.
Having said that... unless you are playing against enemies who out-level you by enough of a margin to be a pretty big threat, it's still not going to make THAT much difference, especially in a good size party (and assuming the players in the group aren't idiots... if not, that changes everything).
Basically, kicking someone out of a party cause you don't like their class is just rude, period.
All us "thread winners" should play together sometime. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Altho sadly, it looks like Katryn is on 360 (I'm on PS2). Dragwind/Ken Silver? Which servers are you guys on?

[Sekani]

On 2007-11-09 09:13, panzer_unit wrote:
Fortes are easier jobs to manage. You fight. You fight. You shoot. You heal/buff/nuke.

Want props for hybrid classes?
Start a random team. Having one or two hybrid types means that just about any other combination of jobs will work ok. Not optimally, like you want in 1Up, but pretty good. For most S2 missions, I'll set my cast up as a PT and all I need is one other pair of feet before I figure I'm good to go.
Look for missions where one character type is at a real disadvantage... Fighters in Grove, techers in Rainbow Beast, gunners in Valley of Carnage. You'll always benefit from having every type covered to some degree, but there are times where you'll get a LOT more value out of someone who just does it part-time and has other skills that will help more with the rest of the mission.

Protranser's my favorite job in the game by far, but I spend less than half my time on it. Why? Most missions aren't demanding enough to make the additional effort and raw output tradeoffs of PT worthwhile.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-11-09 09:18 ]</font>

Just saying that it would be nice to see an EX/Bruce/etc.-style mission where hybrids would be in demand. I don't really have any idea what kind of mission that would be at the moment, but a guy can dream.

Also as a CAST fighgunner I can hold my own just fine in EX missions.

[Kismet]

Cast fighgunners are uber sexy. I have one too.

[Zael]

IMO Fortefighter, Acrofighter, and Fighgunner are just as good as each other.

[Jennara]

On 2007-11-09 20:54, Kismet wrote:
Cast fighgunners are uber sexy. I have one too.


*looks in your sig* Hey! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
Hot Female Cast Fighgunners FTW!! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Pengfishh]

Cast Fighgunners ARE pretty cool.

[beatrixkiddo]

On 2007-11-09 06:46, Ian-KunX wrote:
Sonichi, the Shadoog everybody got at the start of JP AoI in their common box, also steals HP. (Along with causing really fucking annoying knockback like the second hit of Rising Strike.)

...Of course, Shadoogs are pretty much useless, but hey.



Actually, it causes Launch, not knockback. ;D

Didn't know about the HP Drain though, as I ditched that thing the second I synthed one with Burn on it.

[Nai_Calus]

*shrug* I've heard it called no less than three different things. I have yet to see an official source on the matter, so I just picked one and noted what part of what PA it had the same effect as for clarity. XP It's still goddamn annoying, just like people who spam Rising Strike.

Yeah. It has HP drain. It's not very useful. Then again, Shadoogs IMO are worthless unless you've got one with stun, and even then I'd rather have a freaking handgun. I ditched that Sonichi the instant I could afford a third crossbow and only used it as long as I did as a 'well, I suppose it's better than nothing' option, with my least-used single-hand weapon. XP I find a few quick shots of my L30 Yak Megiga much more useful by far than any crappy Shadoog. Including the 10* one.

Generally, I only see them on AFs, and even then I see more cards than Shadoogs.

Seriously, though. I cannot comprehend any reason other than 'Well, this'll do until I can afford something useful' on a new character with no hand-me-downs from established characters to ever use one on a Fighgunner. Or for that matter a Wartecher. Want burn? Foie series, slap it on a madoog with some emergency Resta or whatever, you control it. FI want burn? Burn G, Yak whateveritis for fire Xbow bullet, I prefer virus and FIs don't get Virus G so I use Megiga. *shrug*

[Gen2000]

On 2007-11-09 08:06, panzer_unit wrote:

Classes are balanced by being better or worse at specific tasks. Sure IN GENERAL there are good reasons to roll with anything, once there's a specific task to do it should be pretty clear what job(s) you should switch to in order to do it right.


Just seems to prove to me that things aren't all peachy keen on the balance scale, heh, but I'll leave that alone since it's a pretty sensitive subject for some people.



On 2007-11-09 19:45, Sekani wrote:
Just saying that it would be nice to see an EX/Bruce/etc.-style mission where hybrids would be in demand.


I agree. Especially for the Humans and Newmans Hybrids.