Melee Acrotecher Video!

[Kamica]

This is a video showcasing melee acrotecher damage. Hope you enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3PvDbJ1q-8

Bonus points if you can guess the maximum damage I did with saber and whip.

[Sychosis]

So why is it that everyone thinks melee acrotechers fail so hard again?

[Hokokaru]

becaus e it has TECHER in it....

[Zorafim]

Aparantly, fortefighters will just be that much stronger.

Acrotecher looks much more appealing now. I was under the impression that their melee was useless, but I suppose melee is so overpowered now that it doesn't really matter. Definitely going to consider playing this with my alt.

[Pillan]

I told you so doesn't quite cut it at this point...

[Hokokaru]

WHOA!!! I just watched that video and whatnot, and Hitting 2500 with the last part of Spinning strike(am i right?)!! thats insane!! I was thinking about 500 damages not over 2000 for Acrotechers!!

[-Ryuki-]

Well, considering Spinning Strike's modifiers are high, it's kind of a given. But, after seeing this, I'm glad my AT won't be reduced to just teching.

[pikachief]

i was one who have always thought their atp would be good.

which is y i maade a female human for my acrotecher!

Cards and twin hadngus+ lvl30diga a lvl 40 support + whips= pure awesomeness!

[Hokokaru]

Well, considering Spinning Strike's modifiers are high, it's kind of a given. But, after seeing this, I'm glad my AT won't be reduced to just teching.
----
really? Im still trying to get it lol Ive been 4 frags away for 4 days lol and I spent all my money on my crimson just to use it XD Hopefully ill get it today if i can connect =/

[gryphonvii]

same here, female human all the way!. My newman friend is gonna be happy though when he sees this.

[Rizen]

On 2007-11-10 13:34, Hokokaru wrote:
Well, considering Spinning Strike's modifiers are high, it's kind of a given. But, after seeing this, I'm glad my AT won't be reduced to just teching.
----
really? Im still trying to get it lol Ive been 4 frags away for 4 days lol and I spent all my money on my crimson just to use it XD Hopefully ill get it today if i can connect =/


You can pull off that damage currently with Spinning Strike right now. I have seen 3k hits unbuffed from some people.

Its worth it if you don't mind losing some mobility.

[Hokokaru]

Deal, Im still getting it, I havent seen anyone use it nonetheless hitting that much with it so i guess ill be the first one for me to see it first hand http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Syl]

Don't forget, that's crit. damage you're seeing, you have to JA to get those lovely numbers

[pokefiend]

I'm gonna be honest with you, by looking at how much damage spinning strike dealt, you've only convinced me that [your character's race] Acrotechers will have an equal single saber meelee potential in Aoti as a newman Wartecher in regular PSU. There was generally nothing surprising in the damage you dealt w/ spinning strike. My Abby as a lvl 99 Wt deals the exact same amounts--both critical hits and non-critical hits--w/ a 50% fire bucc and a lvl 13 spinning a strike.

However I will add, that damage you were doin w/ the whip was quite impressive.

[Hokokaru]

Don't forget, that's crit. damage you're seeing, you have to JA to get those lovely numbers
----
JA? Jackass? someone help?

[Deissa]

On 2007-11-10 13:46, Hokokaru wrote:
Don't forget, that's crit. damage you're seeing, you have to JA to get those lovely numbers
----
JA? Jackass? someone help?


Just Attack. If you press the attack button right at the end of the last combo, you'll do a guaranteed critical hit, assuming the enemy doesn't evade.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cadamar on 2007-11-10 13:49 ]</font>

[Broodstar1337]

On 2007-11-10 13:29, Hokokaru wrote:
WHOA!!! I just watched that video and whatnot, and Hitting 2500 with the last part of Spinning strike(am i right?)!! thats insane!! I was thinking about 500 damages not over 2000 for Acrotechers!!



Let's not forget there was a whole hell of a lot of Just Attack used in that video. Not to mention we have no clue what saber Kam was using. Regardless, big numbarz.

Gotta hand it to Sonic Team. They sure know how to make their games broken a thousand times over.

[Hokokaru]

Oh cool never new that, I'd say i learned a lot today http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Deissa]

It's not in effect on the US servers yet as I recall, but I hear it's coming very soon, anyway.

[Hokokaru]

well at least i can practice when i get spinning strike so i can be ready XD

[Hokokaru]

Not to mention we have no clue what saber Kam was using
----
It looked like an A rank GRM saber

[Deissa]

I think it was a 46% Rapier, or something

[F-Gattaca]

Hello, Simon Belmont!

[Starrz]

Haha, newmans are going to lose AT too.

Beasts will be the best race for it, hands down. Melee is just so much better than tech damage.

[Randomness]

On 2007-11-10 14:46, Starrz wrote:
Haha, newmans are going to lose AT too.

Beasts will be the best race for it, hands down. Melee is just so much better than tech damage.



Depends on how fast the techs fire off.

Apparently, madoogs with a Har/Quick can fire off Gi-techs faster than the tech can cast, so they overlap. Meaning you will actually be making lots of hits really fast with AT.

[Jao]

Whip=Rape

[Mystil]

All I have to say is, holy crap.

[BigBadWolf]

as a Newman FT my Foie critics for 2600+ dmg,
Give Forces Just Attack too!
(or at least Just Counter)

[Jao]

JA for forces would be nice

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-11-10 15:37, BigBadWolf wrote:
as a Newman FT my Foie critics for 2600+ dmg,
Good for you.

As a Beast AT, my Spinning Strike will critical (i.e. almost every hit, kthx JA) for (probably) 3300+.

[Sychosis]

Forces do get Just Attack. Pair it up with your laughable ATP, laughable skill cap, laughable melee weapon selection, laughable ATA, and have yourself a night full of lulz and fail http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[pokefiend]

On 2007-11-10 15:37, BigBadWolf wrote:
(or at least Just Counter)

Every class has Just Counter.


On 2007-11-10 15:05, Randomness wrote:
Depends on how fast the techs fire off.

Apparently, madoogs with a Har/Quick can fire off Gi-techs faster than the tech can cast, so they overlap. Meaning you will actually be making lots of hits really fast with AT.



That already sounds faster than the whip PA animation.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: pokefiend on 2007-11-10 15:50 ]</font>

[Tellemyall]

lol pso-w noobs are so easy to convince

[pikachief]

convince about wat? i play the JP AOI and i can tell u there is nothing wrong with this topic, none of this is lies nor fake. >.>

[F-Gattaca]

On 2007-11-10 15:51, Tellemyall wrote:
lol pso-w noobs are so easy to convince



http://www.adultimum.net/studio/images/pannonidklol.jpg

[Lamak]

On 2007-11-10 15:51, Tellemyall wrote:
lol pso-w noobs are so easy to convince

Honestly, I was thinking the same thing. Just because AT can pull "big numbers" with a High ATP Mod PA doesn't mean it can melee well. >_>

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-11-10 16:47, Lamak wrote:
Just because AT can pull "big numbers" with a High ATP Mod PA doesn't mean it can melee well. >_>

What else does "melee well" mean then?

[Lamak]

When you can use a "normal" mob hitting PA and show me nice numbers, then maybe I'll agree with the AT melee theory. But right now, I'm not really buying it. All I can really say is, "Hey AT maybe can melee, but wait for S2 missions"

[Jao]

So how will i start a JA?
becasue that whip rapes=o

[Sychosis]

On 2007-11-10 17:01, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:

On 2007-11-10 16:47, Lamak wrote:
Just because AT can pull "big numbers" with a High ATP Mod PA doesn't mean it can melee well. >_>

What else does "melee well" mean then?



Throwing shit around to make you look badass. Clearly.

[HFlowen]

Meh, forget it. I'm staying out of this one.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HFlowen on 2007-11-10 17:11 ]</font>

[Jao]

ok i just noticed watching the video again and i know it says acrotecher melee dmg but was the video onlin or offline play?

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-10 17:01, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
What else does "melee well" mean then?


I believe this goes back to the original logic behind ATs assumed weakness at melee. Because it has more TP than ATP, because it has a higher tech cap than skill cap, and because every class outside of GT and fT can do more melee damage, AT has to use techs to survive. Either that or it's a plea saying that because it has 9% less HP (-200) and 19% less DFP (8-12 more damage per hit) less than FG, it can't survive in close combat conditions (there's no need to take the EVP advantage into account).

You know, you have to have the best stats to melee to actually melee well. That's why no one plays FG, WT, or PT anymore. If you're not an fF, you should be using a different type of damage, regardless of how much bigger the numbers are for melee.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-11-10 17:12 ]</font>

[Telina]

JA meaning Just Attack i believe

[Telina]

whoops lol, wan't paying attention, thought that last question was on the last page

[Ryo_Hayasa]

On 2007-11-10 17:10, Jao wrote:
ok i just noticed watching the video again and i know it says acrotecher melee dmg but was the video onlin or offline play?



It has to be online play as Lumia is not available as a partner character offline.

[Jao]

More partner cards!!!!!=p

[Kamica]

Keep in mind that this is the ultimate whip PA that is used in the video. The whip PA available at the start is very weak.

[Zorafim]

These are done with 40+% weapons? In that case, it's not impressive at all. Those weapons can do amazing things, their holders don't really matter. If you can still kill lv100+ monsters with neutral weapons, though, that'd be worthwhile.

[Kamica]

On 2007-11-10 19:07, Zorafim wrote:
These are done with 40+% weapons? In that case, it's not impressive at all. Those weapons can do amazing things, their holders don't really matter. If you can still kill lv100+ monsters with neutral weapons, though, that'd be worthwhile.



Don't forget that the game received a elemental nerf. While it is a fact these are 40%+ element weapons, the simple fact that I am a female newman newman should make it impressive enough.

Besides, it is not so hard to get a 40%+ rapier and vishi adan yourself. These are both insanely common items that will only take a couple of runs to find a board for.

Need proof? This is a shop search by decreasing elemental percent (as you go down the list, the percents get smaller) that cost 2 million or less. I am highlighting a 2 million 46% elemental Vishi Adan that is FOURTH down on the list. Anyone should be able to afford this...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/RyuuHasha/PSO/PSU831.jpg


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kamica on 2007-11-10 19:50 ]</font>

[AxelgearVII]

What would the OP know about acrotecher melee? He can't even get his clothes to match.

[Remedy]

Well, thank you for nailing the final lid in my Acrotecher amibition's coffin.

Too much melee for my enjoyment. WAY too much.

[Hokokaru]

Well back to page 1, I finally got my Spinning strike lol and I hit about 700s on the fire monsters with a 20% Crimson (Hopefully gonna get a crimson line) and that modifier is insane!! lv1 has 252% so my normal striking atp was 1344 and my PA 1 was 3346 http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif pretty cool though only I have it at lv6 and then my connection died

Okay the AT Saber DMG is closed now

[kingwok]

wait...she was a newman??

[Lamak]

God, you people act like something amazing happened. The modifier is high, it's saber, hell a high percent one, and Just Attack. Get with the program.

[Remedy]

It's a female Newman. We're not really known for explosive melee damage, Lamak.

[Lamak]

I'm pretty sure that's an S rank mission. everyone is stronger in AoI, and the other points I made above. I'm not really surprised. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Hokokaru]

God, you people act like something amazing happened. The modifier is high, it's saber, hell a high percent one, and Just Attack. Get with the program.
----
Yeah, we know, we discussed it on page 1 and whatnot

also I think its S or higher cuz it was a lvl 110 AT newman i think so....

[LTrav2k]

Spinning Strike has around like 290% ATP at level 20. I'd be more upset if the numbers sucked for any class that could use the second part. With the evasion that ATs sport, unless the mob's knocked down... it's a PA skill which begs to be interrupted by blocking another attack. The whip potential looks nice http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

I see what kind of numbers I should expect from every other fighter class now.

[Hokokaru]

Yeah my spinnings at 260% right now but its a work in progress http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Gen2000]

That's pretty crazy damage considering that's a female newman of a non-fF/figh/AF class. What level were those enemies? Hard to make out for youtube blurryness, look like 110? If so even more impressed.

All those Beast/Cast AT techer haters from long ago I wonder what they would think lol. Good melee damage, best support and SUV/Nanoblast hm seems they will be quite alright but now I'm interested in seeing Wartecher Whip PA damage (starting to see why WTs are getting more love now over there).

[Shiro_Ryuu]

That's the only thing I'm upset about is that it gives hope to Beasts and CASTS, I would have liked them to suck at it, but oh well.

[Pillan]

Like I said, it's hard for any race to suck at a class meant for humans to specialize in. How do you fail at neutrality?


Actually, scratch that. It's hard to fail at PSU.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-11-10 22:22 ]</font>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Yeah, that's true I guess. But still, its pretty annoying when you see people going all "Newmans are worthless, they suck, they're only good at a class that sux."

But yeah, I am very glad that the JA makes Hunters more powerful, along with the Newman thing, another thing that's been bothering me alot is the whole "Hunters suck because Rangers can solo Dulk Fakis S2 in 2 seconds" crew who will finally shut up in AoI, so yeah, that's awesome, and a Newman doing those numbarz too. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2007-11-10 22:29 ]</font>

[Zorafim]

On 2007-11-10 22:21, Pillan wrote:
Actually, scratch that. It's hard to fail at PSU.



Cast fortetecher, only uses nukes, no support or ranged attacks.

[Pillan]

I'd argue it's pretty hard to find someone that dumb.

[Rizen]

On 2007-11-10 22:25, Zorafim wrote:

On 2007-11-10 22:21, Pillan wrote:
Actually, scratch that. It's hard to fail at PSU.



Cast fortetecher, only uses nukes, no support or ranged attacks.


And the funny thing about that is...they don't actually suck at it as much as people think. >.>

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-10 22:28, Rizen wrote:
And the funny thing about that is...they don't actually suck at it as much as people think. >.>


I think it's the "that doesn't use support" part that really kills them there. An fT who doesn't support and just nukes fails at PSU regardless of race.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Yeah, that's the thing about FT, they don't have the best damage around, but they can still do some damage with those techs, AND they can support, not much, but something. So, they have not the best damage, not the best support, but somewhere inbetween. Yeah, not very Forte-ish, but yeah.

Back to topic - If an Acrotecher can do that much, I'm just stoked about what my Human Acrofighter is gonna do, or my Beast Fortefighter.

[ShinMaruku]

Now I am intrigued on AT.

[Soukosa]

AT: Hey look at my 1337 damage with this whip! *does 1.5k damage per hit*
FF: Hey look at my 1337 damage with this axe! *does over 4k damage per hit*

AT has the lowest attack for any meleeing job. Only GT and FT have worse attack. Buffs aren't gonna help you either since unless you live your life soloing all the time, those buffs are gonna affect everyone else and they'll easily out class you.

I don't know why people seem to think AT will be a truely awesome meleeing job and that whips are incredibly powerful. Do you realize that the ult whip PA has a scant 150% mod at lv 20? Plus look how freaking slow the animation is. There's so many other melee weapons with PAs with much better mods and faster animations that can hit multiple targets.

And techs... nuke techs are quite underrated. An FT with a Har/Quick could easily out do that displayed damage by spamming them. Don't need to crit to easily hit 1k+ damage and that's not even with lv 21+ techs >.>

[Dragwind]

Lol at just attack and stat boosts. That kind of damage will be really normal in AoI. Imagine fighters with slicers now, or WT using whips. Yeah, lol'd.

[Remedy]

With Ra- techs, maybe, and those don't have the 360 degree coverage that the whips have.

Now Gi- techs, on the other hand, do... but they only hit in the low 900 range if they're 30 and are on opposing elements (I suppose it could creep into the 1k range with a 12% element rod, but I don't use those because I'd rather be able to land Resta when I need to instead of "oh shit person needs heal fumble for my heal wand oshit they're dead ohnoes http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif"). *shrug*

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-11-10 23:01, Soukosa wrote:
AT: Hey look at my 1337 damage with this whip! *does 1.5k damage per hit*
FF: Hey look at my 1337 damage with this axe! *does over 4k damage per hit*

Enemy: Hey look at my measly 10k HP! *dies quickly to even the weakest melee user*

[ljkkjlcm9]

if that's AT damage with melee, I'd really like to see a class like, FF, Fi, or AF do some damage

THE JACKEL

[Mystil]

On 2007-11-10 22:19, Shiroryuu wrote:
That's the only thing I'm upset about is that it gives hope to Beasts and CASTS, I would have liked them to suck at it, but oh well.


All good man lol, we beasts power only shines in FF. Going AT will just bottle neck us, even with the slicer PA http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif. AT is for humans and newmans to shine.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

1. AT doesn't get slicer, durrrrrr.
2. fF doesn't get support techs.

[Kamica]

AT has the lowest attack for any meleeing job. Only GT and FT have worse attack. Buffs aren't gonna help you either since unless you live your life soloing all the time, those buffs are gonna affect everyone else and they'll easily out class you.

You don't get it do you? Acrotecher is for people who enjoy supporting. It is not right to compare Acrotecher to other melee classes. Acrotecher is a SUPPORT class with GOOD melee damage. The only class that you can rightfully compare damage to is fortetecher or even wartecher.


I don't know why people seem to think AT will be a truely awesome meleeing job and that whips are incredibly powerful. Do you realize that the ult whip PA has a scant 150% mod at lv 20? Plus look how freaking slow the animation is. There's so many other melee weapons with PAs with much better mods and faster animations that can hit multiple targets.

People think that AT is a good at melee because it is . The video should have made that clear. As for the speed of the animation? It has decent speed. Here is an example of a video without lag:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apkVa4uXY18

And again, stop comparing Acrotecher to other melee classes. It is a given that Acrotecher doesn't win. I was never trying to prove that.


And techs... nuke techs are quite underrated. An FT with a Har/Quick could easily out do that displayed damage by spamming them. Don't need to crit to easily hit 1k+ damage and that's not even with lv 21+ techs >.>

You are all talk. Why not make a video showcasing how good tech damage can perform? Because the only advantage that I can see in techs is that you can't be interrupted as easily. Yes, if you were to likely get interrupted a lot from a mob, then techs would be better. But if you play smart, melee will win in most cases.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kamica on 2007-11-10 23:46 ]</font>

[Soukosa]

On 2007-11-10 23:44, Kamica wrote:
You don't get it do you? Acrotecher is for people who enjoy supporting. It is not right to compare Acrotecher to other melee classes. Acrotecher is a SUPPORT class with GOOD melee damage. The only class that you can rightfully compare damage to is fortetecher or even wartecher.

People think that AT is a good at melee because it is . The video should have made that clear. As for the speed of the animation? It has decent speed. Here is an example of a video without lag:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apkVa4uXY18

And again, stop comparing Acrotecher to other melee classes. It is a given that Acrotecher doesn't win. I was never trying to prove that.

I stated all of that more for those that are hell bent on thinking that AT is a super strong melee job because of the higher buffs and the over-ratedness of whips. Usually unless made out otherwise, if I post in a topic its aimed at everyone that has posted before it.



You are all talk. Why not make a video showcasing how good tech damage can perform?

Again this wasn't targeted towards you but more for those that think that techs are utterly worthless. I can't exactly make a video of it since it wasn't my character nor do I really know how to take videos. But FT is a fairly common job (despite what the naysayers say) so it'd be fairly easy to see what sort of damage techs can do.



Because the only advantage that I can see in techs is that you can't be interrupted as easily. Yes, if you were to likely get interrupted a lot from a mob, then techs would be better. But if you play smart, melee will win in most cases.

Techs are fast and can't be easily interrupted, especially on an AT with a har/quick. That gives them an advantage over melee and skills even if they don't always do the most damage. A good AT will use both, yes. Something I figured out way back on the beta and tried to explain it to other people but they only cared about either melee or techs and not both together. Maybe instead of posting videos that only feed people's wrong feelings about the job, you should show what they can do if they use them both wisely http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif That said, AT is similar to PT in that it requires a good amount of skill and knowing what you have available to you to do well.

[BigBadWolf]

Look I'm not even gonna sweat it, just give FTs SE 4 in all +31 (+41?) techs,
toss in a Lv. 4 Incapacitate Megid, and we'll be alright.

I'll just play FT like a fake Guntecher in AoI only with flashier attacks.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BigBadWolf on 2007-11-11 05:33 ]</font>

[RemiusTA]

Who cares if Technics have slightly lower DoT than melee fighters.

Their fun to use, they look cooler than your melee attacks, and hell, why confront when you can nuke? Be american for christs sake. XD



(Yes, that was a joke.)

[6string4play]

On 2007-11-10 23:01, Soukosa wrote:
AT: Hey look at my 1337 damage with this whip! *does 1.5k damage per hit*
FF: Hey look at my 1337 damage with this axe! *does over 4k damage per hit*

AT has the lowest attack for any meleeing job. Only GT and FT have worse attack. Buffs aren't gonna help you either since unless you live your life soloing all the time, those buffs are gonna affect everyone else and they'll easily out class you.

I don't know why people seem to think AT will be a truely awesome meleeing job and that whips are incredibly powerful. Do you realize that the ult whip PA has a scant 150% mod at lv 20? Plus look how freaking slow the animation is. There's so many other melee weapons with PAs with much better mods and faster animations that can hit multiple targets.

And techs... nuke techs are quite underrated. An FT with a Har/Quick could easily out do that displayed damage by spamming them. Don't need to crit to easily hit 1k+ damage and that's not even with lv 21+ techs >.>


Acrotechers get MaDoogs, Shadoogs, along with the whips. They'll be flinging status effects all over the place.
The speed in the op's video and the one you've quoted are swimming in sorry framerate. Have a second opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osVuyrncTAo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lyVdMmeC4A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6a0FXsEIz0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL5zZna9_SQ&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Okbo0x0lViY

[BigBadWolf]

Man this is really pissing me off because hybrid support classes outperforming Forte support is part of the reason why I left FFXI in the first place.

It's good to know that FTs get to use Whips as well at least, what's the SE per level on those things?

Edit: Yes I know FTs only have a Lv. 10 melee cap.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BigBadWolf on 2007-11-11 06:13 ]</font>

[Rizen]

The funny thing is, Fortetechers can pull 1k~1.5k damage melee with the right gear.

Also, I still say Fortetecher is still neck and neck with Acrotecher in the support category. Just view Fortetecher as offensive support and Acrotecher in defensive support.

[PALRAPPYS]

I'm still wondering what a Beast fF lv120/15 could do with a JA Ank Jabroga.

Makes me wonder.

But this AT damage is pretty impressive, I have to say. AT will be a good class for me.

[Kinako78]

Well, I'm sold. I was considering making my newman an AT and this clinches the deal.

And what Kamica said. For a class that's not meant to be a melee-oriented, it does the job very well.

Also, to the person who compared the FF's axe damage to the AT's whip damage: not everybody likes to take the path of brute strength. Myself included. In fact, the Acro classes are a dream come true for me, as I've always preferred to take the path of agility. Thus why I herd towards daggers and the like. I'm also fond of multi-hit weapons, so the whip suits me in that sense.

[Schubalts]

A hybrid will never have stronger single hits in (melee/tech/guns) than a forte in (melee/tech/guns). Saying a hybrid type sucks at something just because a forte type can hit harder is just stupid.


Anyway, now we need a video of an Acrofighter tearing things up to help me decide on it. <hint hint nudge nudge>

[Kinako78]

Yeah, I'd like one, too, cause I'm considering making my main an Acrofighter.

[6string4play]

Sounds like HUnewearls are making an appearance in AOI for you, huh Kinako?

[Remedy]

That ain't no HUnewearl that I know, because when I played PSO, the FOnewearls outsupported the HUnewearls.

[Kinako78]

Well, I was talking about the Acro classes in general, Remedy. Yes, the AT's good for support, but both are good for agile fighting, so yeah, technically, what 6string said.

[Remedy]

I suppose. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif I'm just glad you've found the class you actually want. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Kinako78]

Well, I've never been much for Forte classes (only exception being that my CAST will be a Fortegunner) and preferred the mix that being a WT/FiG/etc. offers me. My main is a WT currently, which is why I'm still thinking if I want her to be an AF or not.

And thanks. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Sekani]

If a tech-heavy class like acrotecher is doing more DPS with melee than with techs, I do believe there is a problem.

Are the modifiers so off now that we'll even have melee-centric fortegunners?

[Kinako78]

I would say most likely not. Fortegunners have a weak selection of melee weapons.

[Sekani]

On 2007-11-11 08:06, Kinako78 wrote:
I would say most likely not. Fortegunners have a weak selection of melee weapons.


They can still put out numbers higher that what was seen in the video. I have no idea how ranged damage compares now; no one's really bothered to take notes.

Regardless, the tech modifiers need to be changed so that they're at least on par with melee and not getting blown out.

(PS: Shrink that sig. It's against the rules, and I'm tired of all that scrolling.)

[pokefiend]

On 2007-11-11 08:06, Kinako78 wrote:
I would say most likely not. Fortegunners have a weak selection of melee weapons.



Like Spear, single Daggers, and single Sabers? In my opinion that's just as unimpressive as an Acrotecher's meelee weapon selection.

Also I think everyone is forgetting that every bullet and tech will soon have flinch implemented. Which makes gunner and techer classes more effective, possibly so much so that it may even compensate for fighter classes Just Attack ability.

[Kinako78]

Well, I suppose, but I figure a more serious melee player would want more selection.

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-11 08:13, Sekani wrote:
Regardless, the tech modifiers need to be changed so that they're at least on par with melee and not getting blown out.
Are... are you actually agreeing with what I've been saying for the last month or so? =o.O=;

[Pillan]

I can look at the numbers now and tell you fG’s ranged damage won’t be any higher in comparison to melee than fT’s tech damage. Sure they can do more ranged damage than a melee class, but even before the AoI update their melee damage is on par with WT’s even with the level 10 skill cap.

The goal is to make the game more like PSO, so I wouldn’t expect an update making fG’s guns stronger than its melee nor AT’s techs stronger than its melee. There might be something lowering the gap later on, but nothing equalizing it. ST has always been in favor of melee having ridiculously high output in exchange for getting the s*** beat out of you for running up to the enemies (and PSU adds the factor of tossing enemies around to further lower the real damage/time).

Anyway, that’s my expected outcome.

[Mystil]

On 2007-11-11 08:05, Sekani wrote:
If a tech-heavy class like acrotecher is doing more DPS with melee than with techs, I do believe there is a problem.

Are the modifiers so off now that we'll even have melee-centric fortegunners?


Seems that way. Take all those damage numbers and multiply them by 3. Thats how strong fortefighters will be with JA.

The monsters dont appear to have a lot of HP either. So yea pretty much every class that can use JA will be broken =P.

[Gen2000]

On 2007-11-11 08:06, Kinako78 wrote:
I would say most likely not. Fortegunners have a weak selection of melee weapons.



While the selection is "weak" they still have two of the weapons that matters more than any others concerning melee anyways (ignoring Slicers): Saber and Spear.

Saber = Spinning Strike, aka mini Gravity Break, on single targets bullet resistance enemies. (You can already do 1k-ish damage a hit with an average saber right now)
Spear = Majarra on multiple target bullet resistance enemies or a group of em. Combo 2 is the main highlight of the PA, fGs get access to that in AoI. Good game.

They have the ATP to make good use of em. For a class with such range damage power as them (again ignoring Slicers) that's more than enough.

[Kinako78]

Ok, fair enough.

[pokefiend]

On 2007-11-11 08:31, Pillan wrote:
Sure they can do more ranged damage than a melee class, but even before the AoI update their melee damage is on par with WT’s even with the level 10 skill cap.

...
...
...
... ... I'm not even gonna bother my time telling you how much of a lie that really is.

[Kinako78]

Wait...what? Did Pillan just say that FTs were better at melee then WTs?

[pokefiend]

No that would be even more ridiculous. I'm outraged by how Pillan claimed that ForteGunners can deal equal meelee damage as WTs can.

[Remedy]

Let's see.

Spears? Check.
Higher ATP mod than WTs? Check.

I don't see any reason why it would be that hard to believe. Sure, they don't get the second step of Majarra, but the higher ATP mod mitigates that somewhat.

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-11 11:23, Kinako78 wrote:
Wait...what? Did Pillan just say that FTs were better at melee then WTs?


No, I said fG’s melee damage will rival WT’s and fG’s melee damage will surpass its ranged damage and fT’s melee damage will rival its tech damage. I would not say something as obviously incorrect as that.


On 2007-11-11 11:19, pokefiend wrote:
... ... I'm not even gonna bother my time telling you how much of a lie that really is.


Test it yourself. I have WT and fG 10 on my main and I was dealing around 50 damage more with the first move of Gravity Strike than WT did with the second move (that difference is a bit higher than it should be because of the Cast bonus and because the sabers were 50%). Given that the second move has a lot more hits, WT still wins, but fG can use the full thing in AoI. Plus, looking at some of the new skill mods, I'd say a WT has much better damage options than Majarra in AoI. Surprisingly, Moubu seems to be one of them...

You have to remember that the difference between level 20 and level 30 skills is pretty much nothing if there isn’t another part added on. fG has 8% more ATP than WT and the extra levels add about 3-7% more damage, varying with the skill.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-11-11 11:58 ]</font>

[Kinako78]

My apologies.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I kinda feel that FGs should just keep their skills to 10 after hearing this.

[pokefiend]

On 2007-11-11 11:46, Pillan wrote:

On 2007-11-11 11:19, pokefiend wrote:
... ... I'm not even gonna bother my time telling you how much of a lie that really is.


Test it yourself. I have WT and fG 10 on my main and I was dealing around 50 damage more with the first move of Gravity Strike than WT did with the second move (that difference is a bit higher than it should be because of the Cast bonus). Given that the second move has a lot more hits, WT still wins, but fG can use the full thing in AoI.

You have to remember that the difference between level 20 and level 30 skills is pretty much nothing if there isn’t another part added on. fG has 8% more ATP than WT and the extra levels add about 3-7% more damage, varying with the skill.


Since I have not played Aoti yet I'm not going to make any premature statements about Aoti FGs meelee vs WTs meelee. However back to this PSU, I fail to understand how Fortegunners can compete against Wartechers in meelee at all.

Lets use the most popular single saber PA, Spinning strike, as an example. Now you say a FG has 8% more ATP than a WT? Well I know for a solid fact, every PA level gained excluding the milestone ones (10-11, 20-21) the ATP mod goes up by 2%. I'm not confidently certain of the ATP mod increase between 10 and 11 are but by just adding up the other 9 levels I can tell you a WT would already be doing 10% more damage w/ a lvl 20 Spinning strike than a Fortegunner w/ a lvl 10 Spinning strike. And of course, there's the two more powerful added hits WTs get after lvl 11.

Now I'll try to scientifically assess how the two compare:

(The following classes are being assessed with female newman stats + a 50% bucc, since my WT character is a female newman and I'm familiar with her standards. Your Fortegunner or Wartecher may hit for higher damage amounts.)

FG: 1200, 1200 ~PA animation pause~ 1200, 1200

WT: 1250, 1250, 1800, 1800 ~PA animation pause~ 1250, 1250, 1800, 1800.

PS: I think we can all agree that WTs are and will both in the expansion and now, be superior Dus Majarra welders.

[Sekani]

On 2007-11-11 11:30, pokefiend wrote:
No that would be even more ridiculous. I'm outraged by how Pillan claimed that ForteGunners can deal equal meelee damage as WTs can.


Did someone hit a nerve? LOL

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

As stupid as it sounds, yes, fG can do damage that is close to that of WT.

Now, that isn't because fG is good, it's because WT sucks.

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-11 12:23, pokefiend wrote:
Lets use the most popular single saber PA, Spinning strike, as an example. Now you say a FG has 8% more ATP than a WT? Well I know for a solid fact, every PA level gained excluding the milestone ones (10-11, 20-21) the ATP mod goes up by 2%. I'm not confidently certain of the ATP mod increase between 10 and 11 are but by just adding up the other 9 levels I can tell you a WT would already be doing 10% more damage w/ a lvl 20 Spinning strike than a Fortegunner w/ a lvl 10 Spinning strike. And of course, there's the two more powerful added hits WTs get after lvl 11.


Yes, Spinning Strike gains 2% more ATP per level, but it also has a 270% ATP mod at level 10. Because of that 20%/270% = 7.4%, which gives fG more damage because of the 8% higher base ATP mod in the long run. Depending on how low your ATP is compared to saber ATP, the fG could be behind (i.e., when the saber ATP is more significant).

Plus it’s only 1% more ATP per level from 21-30, but I’d assume the second part has much higher growth to balance it. Anyway, my main point is that there’s not much difference in their overall power. It’s this very same fact that gives AT its seemingly impressive power. The only difference is this time there’s more base ATP with a lower skill cap vs. less base ATP with a higher skill cap.


On 2007-11-11 12:23, pokefiend wrote:
Now I'll try to scientifically assess how the two compare:

(The following classes are being assessed with female newman stats + a 50% bucc, since my WT character is a female newman and I'm familiar with her standards. Your Fortegunner or Wartecher may hit for higher damage amounts.)

FG: 1200, 1200 ~PA animation pause~ 1200, 1200

WT: 1250, 1250, 1800, 1800 ~PA animation pause~ 1250, 1250, 1800, 1800.


I explain that with a 3% Newman bonus as WT and no bonus as fG. Therefore the ATP difference is less than the PA level difference, so Newman and human WTs will actually deal slightly more melee damage than their fG equivalents. And, like I said, I was talking specifically about the numbers when there weren’t any other moves taken into account. As stated earlier, once you add in additional parts, WT wins unless the next part sucks.


On 2007-11-11 12:23, pokefiend wrote:
PS: I think we can all agree that WTs are and will both in the expansion and now, be superior Dus Majarra welders.


I’d actually argue against it because the last move of Majarra actually isn’t any more powerful than the second part. It just blows enemies away with bigger numbers. Given that fG’s ATP with PA is about the same as WT’s ATP with PA, I'd say it's still pretty even because the fG can better deal with the low accuracy mod on that skill and the 3rd part isn’t gamebreakingly powerful like the last part of Renkai or Daggas.

[Kinako78]

WT does NOT suck! My main is a WT and she works just fine for me! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-11-11 12:47, Kinako78 wrote:
WT does NOT suck! My main is a WT and she works just fine for me! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

And my main has been WT since expert types became available.

WT sucks.

[Kinako78]

Fine, it sucks to you. We'll leave it at that.

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-11 12:44, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
As stupid as it sounds, yes, fG can do damage that is close to that of WT.

Now, that isn't because fG is good, it's because WT sucks.


I’d argue it’s balancing. WT has a larger variety of melee weapons and all-around higher defensive stats than fG, so slightly higher damage on the weapons fG can use aren’t much better. Additionally, fG gets ranged weapons while WT gets, you know, the ability to heal itself and cast damage techs.

You know, the same thing came up when you compared a HUnewearl to a RAcaseal on ver2. RAcaseal had slightly more melee damage and a lot more accuracy, but couldn’t use techs. (The ATA difference was decreased and HUnewearl was given more ATP in GC.)

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

I'd call it more of a HUcaseal/RAcist conflict, where the latter has higher ATP and ATA, and gets all the broken ranged weapons.

But yeah, comparing this to anything PSO-wise is stupid.

[Dragwind]

Wow, people really freakin out over here at miniscule amounts of damage differences.

[-Ryuki-]

People freak out about anything class-related.
Or rares-related.

[Dragwind]

Yeah, It's pretty much fact that everyone wants to be right in these issues. The smallest trifle flares into a heated debate that mimicks a play-doh fight.

[Sexy_Raine]

Sadly, this game is going in the same direction as PSO making Melee outclass the other two fighting types, and has killed my hype for this. You fail Sega, this makes me want this game less.

[Remedy]

People do not like to be considered useless, that's the real issue.

That said, I've just stopped worrying about it. I'll do what makes me happy, and to hell with what anyone thinks about it. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Edit, to reply to below post: I cannot agree enough, Raine. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif I put up with it for years on PSO as a Foney. I was HOPING it would be different on PSU.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Remedy on 2007-11-11 13:28 ]</font>

[-Ryuki-]

I like play-dough.

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-11 13:24, Remedy wrote:
That said, I've just stopped worrying about it. I'll do what makes me happy, and to hell with what anyone thinks about it. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


That's my philosophy as well. Actually, WT is probably the first class I'll get to 15 with AoI's release. I don't mind doing less damage when I'm having fun.

[pokefiend]

Now that I look back at your first post, I realized you were talking about damage, not performance.


On 2007-11-11 12:37, Sekani wrote:

On 2007-11-11 11:30, pokefiend wrote:
No that would be even more ridiculous. I'm outraged by how Pillan claimed that ForteGunners can deal equal meelee damage as WTs can.


Did someone hit a nerve? LOL



Oh my! I used the word "outraged"! >_>



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: pokefiend on 2007-11-11 13:37 ]</font>

[Kinako78]

On 2007-11-11 13:33, Pillan wrote:

On 2007-11-11 13:24, Remedy wrote:
That said, I've just stopped worrying about it. I'll do what makes me happy, and to hell with what anyone thinks about it. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


That's my philosophy as well. Actually, WT is probably the first class I'll get to 15 with AoI's release. I don't mind doing less damage when I'm having fun.



I know I should and I usually don't worry about it, but...I dunno. It just gets to me after seeing it said so many times.

[Konstanse_Xx]

On 2007-11-11 13:33, Pillan wrote:

On 2007-11-11 13:24, Remedy wrote:
That said, I've just stopped worrying about it. I'll do what makes me happy, and to hell with what anyone thinks about it. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


That's my philosophy as well. Actually, WT is probably the first class I'll get to 15 with AoI's release. I don't mind doing less damage when I'm having fun.


Same, the only gripe I've had is lacking the third in PA's. I have the range I like and the tech power I like, soon I'll have the ample melee too. WT is just fun for me @_o(and I've been complemented for my support in teams, even though I hate doing it XD)

[PALRAPPYS]

I say we forget about BIG NUMBARZ LULZ and have fun playing the class we do.

All classes are useful in a party, people. Sheesh. All of you only care about finishing a 10-minute mission in 5 minutes.

[BigBadWolf]

No.
Being gimped for life is not fun, especially if you invested a lot of time and energy in your class.
Sega needs to rebalance these jobs.
Period.

[pikachief]

so what? is it my fault that my favorite classes and favorite weapons jut so happen to be classified as "overpowered?" http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif i would use them if they did only 1 damage a hit http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

i hate it when i use something really strong and people think i jsut use it cuz of big numbers http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif if i wanted that i'd use axes but i dont cuz i dont like them.

[Sexy_Raine]

On 2007-11-11 16:10, BigBadWolf wrote:
No.
Being gimped for life is not fun, especially if you invested a lot of time and energy in your class.
Sega needs to rebalance these jobs.
Period.



Tell me about it, PSO all over again where 90% of the people are fuckin' melee. If Sega coninues this bullshit, then I will quit FT.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Ok, you know what? This thread is starting to become fail.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-11-11 17:38, Sexy_Raine wrote:


Tell me about it, PSO all over again where 90% of the people are fuckin' melee. If Sega coninues this bullshit, then I will quit FT.

Huh.

Rangers will still have their uses (flying bosses), and techers theirs (support). And isn't that really how it should be?

Melee: Do stupidly high damage.
Range: Shoot things that are hard for the melee users to reach.
Techs: Support, and the occasional firework show.

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-11 17:38, Sexy_Raine wrote:
Tell me about it, PSO all over again where 90% of the people are fuckin' melee. If Sega coninues this bullshit, then I will quit FT.
Hell, like a friend of mine on AIM who plays JP PSU said:

"Hell, if FTs got 20 skills, they'd probably do more in melee than they do with techs"

Which is pretty much just like PSO. I did more damage meleeing (50% Hit Charge Vulcans/Berserk Vulcans, Vivienne, Bringer's Rifle) than I ever did with nukes in Ultimate. It's fucking sad.

[pikachief]

On 2007-11-11 17:38, Sexy_Raine wrote:

On 2007-11-11 16:10, BigBadWolf wrote:
No.
Being gimped for life is not fun, especially if you invested a lot of time and energy in your class.
Sega needs to rebalance these jobs.
Period.



Tell me about it, PSO all over again where 90% of the people are fuckin' melee. If Sega coninues this bullshit, then I will quit FT.



wat u mean? theres still a a lot who love guns! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Krisan]

Why do people bitch so much about classes? People don't even know what the hell class you are half the time in this game, unless you tell them.. And I've never had anyone complain about my class ingame, or say they wish they had so-and-so class with them.. (Except maybe force, but that's for the obvious healingsupport reasons.)

This game is just designed in such a way that you cannot go wrong.. you can't be useless without being clinically braindead, regardless of your class or race. So why everyone insists on going on and on about stats and crap, when the difference hardly matters ingame.. I don't know.. I mean yes, some race-class combos are better than others, some classes hit harder than others or whatever.. but this game is easy as all hell, there is no challenge in this game that requires you be the best, or anywhere near that.. You're suppose to be having fun people, but apparently too many of you forget that. (The OP was just trying to reinforce this point, that AT is fine and people should stop shaking in their boots over its damage.. even if it isn't amazing, it works.)

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Well, I have to say that I agree with Pikachief in one thing, I love my swords, and that's the one reason why I have all four of my characters as Fighters, not because of lol big numbarz, because my main is a Human, and two of my alts are Newmans (yeah, they're fighters too), well, I also have a Beast, but yeah.

[Sekani]

On 2007-11-11 17:54, Krisan wrote:
Why do people bitch so much about classes? People don't even know what the hell class you are half the time in this game, unless you tell them.. And I've never had anyone complain about my class ingame, or say they wish they had so-and-so class with them.. (Except maybe force, but that's for the obvious healingsupport reasons.)

This game is just designed in such a way that you cannot go wrong.. you can't be useless without being clinically braindead, regardless of your class or race. So why everyone insists on going on and on about stats and crap, when the difference hardly matters ingame.. I don't know.. I mean yes, some race-class combos are better than others, some classes hit harder than others or whatever.. but this game is easy as all hell, there is no challenge in this game that requires you be the best, or anywhere near that.. You're suppose to be having fun people, but apparently too many of you forget that. (The OP was just trying to reinforce this point, that AT is fine and people should stop shaking in their boots over its damage.. even if it isn't amazing, it works.)


If this thread is devolving into another class war where everyone is going to start posting cliché replies like this, then it's already failed and time for me to move on....

My only observation was that if a class that theoretically is supposed to be primarily a tech user is doing more damage/time with melee than with techs, that's just beyond broken.

[pikachief]

i request a lock from teh mods. this is just dum now http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

someone shows something interesting and of course theres always some people who are unhappy with it.

[Jife_Jifremok]

On 2007-11-11 17:44, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:

On 2007-11-11 17:38, Sexy_Raine wrote:


Tell me about it, PSO all over again where 90% of the people are fuckin' melee. If Sega coninues this bullshit, then I will quit FT.

Huh.

Rangers will still have their uses (flying bosses), and techers theirs (support). And isn't that really how it should be?

Melee: Do stupidly high damage.
Range: Shoot things that are hard for the melee users to reach.
Techs: Support, and the occasional firework show.



Every class needs more than one role, or at least more than one way to fulfill that role. Being relegated to a single role hinders diversity, needlessly restricts playstyles and overall makes the game a lot less fun.

As PSU is right now, playing support can mean being a force and buffing/debuffing, OR being a ranger to debuff and keep shit on stun/lockdown. Or perhaps even being a hunter to take hits and knock things around.
(But I really don't know much about hunter playing support so I won't say much here.) Just remember that "support" should be more than just "i hit dis button now ur stats go up n theres go down".

Doing damage? Hunters finally get the high damage numbers they deserve for having the balls to take up monsters up close, rangers can use DoT from a rifle like cowards OR use high-damage weapons like shotguns and grenades, forces get some nice damage too of course from their Diga spam, dambarta or proper element use. (Hopefully their damage will still be good enough.)

Lemme rephrase a bit. If you're a hunter, you can beat the shit outta things. If you're a ranger, you can kill things or play support (or do BOTH GASP!). As a force, you can kill things or play support (or both!). Why should any class be relegated to just ONE of these roles?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jife_Jifremok on 2007-11-11 18:36 ]</font>

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-11 18:06, Sekani wrote:
My only observation was that if a class that theoretically is supposed to be primarily a tech user is doing more damage/time with melee than with techs, that's just beyond broken.
It's not beyond broken, it's PSO. People begged and pleaded for PSO to come back, and it is.

In PSO, as a FOnewearl, with the highest TP in the game and the lowest ATP in the game, I did more damage meleeing with Vulcans and a Bringer's and a Vivienne than I could ever do with proper, intelligent use of techs (Merge switching, Psycho or respective element wand usage, etc). It took so much effort to get techs to the point where they actually started looking decent (carrying at least 4 merges, 4 weapons, etc.), and that could all be outdone by a easily-obtained (FROM THE NPC SHOP) pair of 50/0/0/50/50 Charge Vulcans. Bringer's Rifle and Vivienne were just icing on the cake, and my S-rank Berserk Mechguns were absolutely stupid, especially since I could just Resta myself instead of relying on another FO.

PSU is becoming PSO in more ways than one, and I HATE this way. *shrug* We need more Meris to spit on the HUmars (or HUbeasts) if this is gonna keep up.

[UltimateCarl]

And what's wrong with wanting to play a good class and see big numbers? Why does everyone say that some people play for "LOL BIG NUMBARZ" and then you play for fun? Why do the two have to be mutually exclusive? By logic, people wouldn't care about the big numbers, stats, or such if they didn't think it was fun to have them. I just "play for fun", myself. I'm finally going Wartecher once I renew my GUARDIAN's License, and I don't care if they don't get the most damage, but I can see why someone can.

Being useful and helpful to your team, and putting yourself in the shoes of an incredibly powerful, fearsome fighter are fun! Playing the way you want is also fun, but again, do these really have to be separate? I understand the game doesn't require you to be UBAR STRONG, and even if you play a "weak" class, if you have a reasonable amount of skill you can dominate the monsters as well. I don't see why it is considered "whining" to want SEGA to do their job: make a well-crafted game.

In response to the original post: Very cool! Whips look awesome, and I'm glad that you can do some decent melee damage in addition to techin' it up! Variety is always a plus.

[gryphonvii]

don't really like sabers anyways so at isn't to appealing for me as melee class anyways, no problems here. I'll choose whatever class I want to be, I'll probbly stick to fighgunner though, everyone will choose the cdlass that fits them best so no point in complaining, you want to melee as an at go ahead, if you want powerful spells go FT. In my experience people do what they wnat and no amount of complaining is going to change that.

[Sexy_Raine]

On 2007-11-11 18:32, Jife_Jifremok wrote:

On 2007-11-11 17:44, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:

On 2007-11-11 17:38, Sexy_Raine wrote:


Tell me about it, PSO all over again where 90% of the people are fuckin' melee. If Sega coninues this bullshit, then I will quit FT.

Huh.

Rangers will still have their uses (flying bosses), and techers theirs (support). And isn't that really how it should be?

Melee: Do stupidly high damage.
Range: Shoot things that are hard for the melee users to reach.
Techs: Support, and the occasional firework show.



Every class needs more than one role, or at least more than one way to fulfill that role. Being relegated to a single role hinders diversity, needlessly restricts playstyles and overall makes the game a lot less fun.

As PSU is right now, playing support can mean being a force and buffing/debuffing, OR being a ranger to debuff and keep shit on stun/lockdown. Or perhaps even being a hunter to take hits and knock things around.
(But I really don't know much about hunter playing support so I won't say much here.) Just remember that "support" should be more than just "i hit dis button now ur stats go up n theres go down".

Doing damage? Hunters finally get the high damage numbers they deserve for having the balls to take up monsters up close, rangers can use DoT from a rifle like cowards OR use high-damage weapons like shotguns and grenades, forces get some nice damage too of course from their Diga spam, dambarta or proper element use. (Hopefully their damage will still be good enough.)

Lemme rephrase a bit. If you're a hunter, you can beat the shit outta things. If you're a ranger, you can kill things or play support (or do BOTH GASP!). As a force, you can kill things or play support (or both!). Why should any class be relegated to just ONE of these roles?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jife_Jifremok on 2007-11-11 18:36 ]</font>


Because playing variety for fun fails in PSU. I would only go bother with some other class if they are unique rewarding stuff to get from it, and dominate to an equivalent of the main class.
I do take pleasure in what I dedicated 1500hrs, and enjoy it. To ditch that for something else, which is mostly likely gonna happen thanks to pointless FT, really hurts me. FT is fun, but not when it's greatly outdone by something else, cause there is no fun in being something weaker.

[Zael]

I agree about how it's bullshit how tech damage is insignificant, and how melee needs to get nerfed. Trying to make PSU like PSO is the stupidest, most ridiculous idea ever.

[Starrz]

On 2007-11-11 17:54, Krisan wrote[/b]:
Why do people bitch so much about classes? People don't even know what the hell class you are half the time in this game, unless you tell them.. And I've never had anyone complain about my class ingame, or say they wish they had so-and-so class with them.. (Except maybe force, but that's for the obvious healingsupport reasons.)

This game is just designed in such a way that you cannot go wrong.. you can't be useless without being clinically braindead, regardless of your class or race. So why everyone insists on going on and on about stats and crap, when the difference hardly matters ingame.. I don't know.. I mean yes, some race-class combos are better than others, some classes hit harder than others or whatever.. but this game is easy as all hell, there is no challenge in this game that requires you be the best, or anywhere near that.. You're suppose to be having fun people, but apparently too many of you forget that. (The OP was just trying to reinforce this point, that AT is fine and people should stop shaking in their boots over its damage.. even if it isn't amazing, it works.)

Honestly, did you even play an EX Mission? There were plenty of people complaining on not being able to finish them (Bar neudaiz).

[Zael]

Yup. Your typical weak race/class combos either won't be wanted for 1up missions, or won't be able to clear the EX missions. But at least you're having fun! owait...

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-11-11 19:30, Zael wrote:
I agree about how it's bullshit how tech damage is insignificant, and how melee needs to get nerfed. Trying to make PSU like PSO is the stupidest, most ridiculous idea ever.

Nah, it is what it is. No one ever denied that RAmarl was broken, but no one complained about it either. Sure, HUmer was as useless as WT, but everyone just acknowledged the fact and got on with it, none of this BAAAAAAAAW ST PRZ REBALANCE 4 ME.


Besides, it would surprise me if melee doesn't get some sort of nerf in PSU. They seem to like to shift the brokenness from one class to another. First it was teching, which was really strong compared to everything else, and then rangers and their crazy solo ability took on the broken status, and now it is melee's turn.

[Shou]

I agree that the damage that AT was dealing was too much. I don't doubt that there will be rebalancing though. I want to be an AT for support not for damage http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Zael]

On 2007-11-11 20:07, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:

On 2007-11-11 19:30, Zael wrote:
I agree about how it's bullshit how tech damage is insignificant, and how melee needs to get nerfed. Trying to make PSU like PSO is the stupidest, most ridiculous idea ever.

Nah, it is what it is. No one ever denied that RAmarl was broken, but no one complained about it either. Sure, HUmer was as useless as WT, but everyone just acknowledged the fact and got on with it, none of this BAAAAAAAAW ST PRZ REBALANCE 4 ME.


Besides, it would surprise me if melee doesn't get some sort of nerf in PSU. They seem to like to shift the brokenness from one class to another. First it was teching, which was really strong compared to everything else, and then rangers and their crazy solo ability took on the broken status, and now it is melee's turn.


Teching wasn't strong compared to everything else :/

Look how techers are doing on 1up missions, lol.

I can agree with Rangers being broken with their easy solo ability, though.

I really do hope they balance things better in the future. Seeing Fortetechers and Newmans becoming obsolete is pretty annoying.

[Jife_Jifremok]

On 2007-11-11 19:23, Sexy_Raine wrote:

On 2007-11-11 18:32, Jife_Jifremok wrote:

On 2007-11-11 17:44, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:

On 2007-11-11 17:38, Sexy_Raine wrote:


Tell me about it, PSO all over again where 90% of the people are fuckin' melee. If Sega coninues this bullshit, then I will quit FT.

Huh.

Rangers will still have their uses (flying bosses), and techers theirs (support). And isn't that really how it should be?

Melee: Do stupidly high damage.
Range: Shoot things that are hard for the melee users to reach.
Techs: Support, and the occasional firework show.



Every class needs more than one role, or at least more than one way to fulfill that role. Being relegated to a single role hinders diversity, needlessly restricts playstyles and overall makes the game a lot less fun.

As PSU is right now, playing support can mean being a force and buffing/debuffing, OR being a ranger to debuff and keep shit on stun/lockdown. Or perhaps even being a hunter to take hits and knock things around.
(But I really don't know much about hunter playing support so I won't say much here.) Just remember that "support" should be more than just "i hit dis button now ur stats go up n theres go down".

Doing damage? Hunters finally get the high damage numbers they deserve for having the balls to take up monsters up close, rangers can use DoT from a rifle like cowards OR use high-damage weapons like shotguns and grenades, forces get some nice damage too of course from their Diga spam, dambarta or proper element use. (Hopefully their damage will still be good enough.)

Lemme rephrase a bit. If you're a hunter, you can beat the shit outta things. If you're a ranger, you can kill things or play support (or do BOTH GASP!). As a force, you can kill things or play support (or both!). Why should any class be relegated to just ONE of these roles?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jife_Jifremok on 2007-11-11 18:36 ]</font>


Because playing variety for fun fails in PSU. I would only go bother with some other class if they are unique rewarding stuff to get from it, and dominate to an equivalent of the main class.
I do take pleasure in what I dedicated 1500hrs, and enjoy it. To ditch that for something else, which is mostly likely gonna happen thanks to pointless FT, really hurts me. FT is fun, but not when it's greatly outdone by something else, cause there is no fun in being something weaker.



This isn't about one person playing a variety of things, it's about diversity in playstyles for people to choose. (Playing for variety and sheer hardcore specialization are just two of many different ways to play.) If everyone played the same way, it'd be a rather dull gaming world. Using myself as an example, I'd be dull as shit if I simply accepted the rifle's usefulness and used it a lot, but instead I find ways to match or surpass it and sometimes have some good fun just hating on the effortless pew-pews.

If one class, or worse, one playstyle, dominated everything else such that nearly everyone has to flock to it or else stick with being weak, then for most people there'd only be one fun style. To me, that just makes for a really dull game.

[Rizen]

On 2007-11-11 20:07, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:

Besides, it would surprise me if melee doesn't get some sort of nerf in PSU. They seem to like to shift the brokenness from one class to another. First it was teching, which was really strong compared to everything else, and then rangers and their crazy solo ability took on the broken status, and now it is melee's turn.

He does have a point here...It has shifted alot.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-11-11 20:28, Zael wrote:

Teching wasn't strong compared to everything else :/

Look how techers are doing on 1up missions, lol.

I mean like at the very beginning of PSU, when it was a chore to get money to buy B-rank non-elemental weapons. Meanwhile, the force was flinging Diga and Foie that did BIG NUMBARZ, which actually meant something, because enemies had tiny HP.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I agree with you Jife. Yeah, I do like being a Hunter, but I don't want to be like that because of big numbarz, and I don't want people to think that I'm being a Hunter because I want to be a noob, I'm just being a Fighter because I like my swords. Everything being dominated by just one playstyle would srsly make the game suck.

[Carlo210]

On 2007-11-11 20:28, Zael wrote:

On 2007-11-11 20:07, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:

On 2007-11-11 19:30, Zael wrote:
I agree about how it's bullshit how tech damage is insignificant, and how melee needs to get nerfed. Trying to make PSU like PSO is the stupidest, most ridiculous idea ever.

Nah, it is what it is. No one ever denied that RAmarl was broken, but no one complained about it either. Sure, HUmer was as useless as WT, but everyone just acknowledged the fact and got on with it, none of this BAAAAAAAAW ST PRZ REBALANCE 4 ME.


Besides, it would surprise me if melee doesn't get some sort of nerf in PSU. They seem to like to shift the brokenness from one class to another. First it was teching, which was really strong compared to everything else, and then rangers and their crazy solo ability took on the broken status, and now it is melee's turn.


Teching wasn't strong compared to everything else :/

Look how techers are doing on 1up missions, lol.

I can agree with Rangers being broken with their easy solo ability, though.

I really do hope they balance things better in the future. Seeing Fortetechers and Newmans becoming obsolete is pretty annoying.


No, but when PSU was released - in the beginning - Techers were doing the most damage. Do you remember the days of Diga spam?
This si what the person you quoted was talking about. He's referring to a timeline. Please try to understand the post before quoting it.


Now, Acrotechers may do decent melee damage, but I don't think that's a big deal. Yes, the strengths in this game have shifted, just like in every other online rpg.
My current craving from PSU is to have 'big numbars'. Do I go protranser? Nope, they only have a 120% atp modifier at level 15. I'm not saying Protransers suck - they have cool Ex Traps (their huge redeeming factor for me) - but htey don't tickle my fancy.
Acrofighters have the slicer, which is cool. However, the Pa seems stale, even though it does massive damage, and it seems like it'll be getting nerfed. However, that's actually a good thing for me. I wanted to use slicers ever if they were 'meh' as damage dealing weapons. However, Acrofighter's concentration is more on speed and successive hits (meaning lots of 300 damage hits, for example).
This is where Fortefighter comes in. Not only do they get the cool weapons that Protranser gets (minus the guns, but guns don't get JA http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif ), but they get the 165+% atp modifier at level 15, reduced pp consumption and increased pp regen (something that PT is lacking).
Of course, I'm going to miss my guns, but, despite the general consensus on Fortefighter being 'boring', you get tonnes of weapons with numerous PA choices.
Not to mention they get twin sabers which gives them a boost in their combat agility (compared to swords, axes, etc).

So, if you're worried about the numbers you see on an acrotecher, check out the numbers on a fortefighter who has a 60% higher ATP bonus (106% for AT compared to around 167% for FF).
The bottom line is melee fighting is strong in AoI. We know that much. We also knowt hat this isn't a blasphemous move by ST. It happens. It shakes things up. Techers used to be the best damage dealers when PSU came out, then rangers took the cake as enemy HP rose and DoTs got uber effective. Now melee is more attractive and effective with attack timing (which is rewarded with crits) and higher ATP.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Carlo210 on 2007-11-11 21:21 ]</font>

[Remedy]

The Diga spam was still only really good for per-hit damage, and only against electric enemies. It still wasn't that great for DPS - Ra- techs served far better for that.

[Ryno]

On 2007-11-10 13:02, Kamica wrote:
This is a video showcasing melee acrotecher damage. Hope you enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3PvDbJ1q-8

Bonus points if you can guess the maximum damage I did with saber and whip.



I see an Okarod!

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-11-11 21:15, Ryno wrote:

I see an Okarod!

Yeah, Lumia has one. Still unreleased otherwise.

[Sychosis]

On 2007-11-11 19:09, UltimateCarl wrote:
And what's wrong with wanting to play a good class and see big numbers? Why does everyone say that some people play for "LOL BIG NUMBARZ" and then you play for fun? Why do the two have to be mutually exclusive? By logic, people wouldn't care about the big numbers, stats, or such if they didn't think it was fun to have them. I just "play for fun", myself. I'm finally going Wartecher once I renew my GUARDIAN's License, and I don't care if they don't get the most damage, but I can see why someone can.

Being useful and helpful to your team, and putting yourself in the shoes of an incredibly powerful, fearsome fighter are fun! Playing the way you want is also fun, but again, do these really have to be separate? I understand the game doesn't require you to be UBAR STRONG, and even if you play a "weak" class, if you have a reasonable amount of skill you can dominate the monsters as well. I don't see why it is considered "whining" to want SEGA to do their job: make a well-crafted game.

In response to the original post: Very cool! Whips look awesome, and I'm glad that you can do some decent melee damage in addition to techin' it up! Variety is always a plus.



Finally someone understands!

There's nothing wrong with wanting a little balance. I personally find FT to be a blast to play. Always loved being a magic user. But I personally hate feeling like dead weight. I know my friends don't really mind the extra weight, but I do. I really do.

I enjoy making the most out of my characters. And having people telling me that doing so can't possibly be fun, pisses me off.

[Remedy]

Weren't you insulting me a while back, Sychosis, for saying almost the exact same thing about FTs? Or am I confusing you with someone else? (Don't see how, your signature is pretty one-of-a-kind, lawl)

[Carlo210]

This discussion will return in the form of "ST is catering to techers! Look at how awesome these 41+ techs look! Where's my extra effects for my bullets/skills???"

Nobody (minus the elitists) will be talking about damage in the future. We'll all have tonnes of fancy shmancy S-ranks that remind us that this is what this game is truly about - having cool stuffs and being able to whoop ass in order to get OTHER cool stuffs. Fortetechers, you aren't in danger of being able to do this, so enjoy the nuking and awesome spell effects and attack variety.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Carlo210 on 2007-11-11 21:32 ]</font>

[Sychosis]

On 2007-11-11 21:28, Remedy wrote:
Weren't you insulting me a while back, Sychosis, for saying almost the exact same thing about FTs? Or am I confusing you with someone else? (Don't see how, your signature is pretty one-of-a-kind, lawl)



Certainly wasn't me. You and I see pretty much eye to eye on the topic of FTs.

I just prefer to be a bit less vocal about it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Syl]

Somehow I have a good feeling everyone and their mom is going to go AT one day 1 of AoI

For anyone who has YET to grasp those numbers... trust me, you will all think they're nothing when you go give a beat down as a fortefighter and get even higher numbers than that... a lot higher. They're crits, and you'll all get over it once you play in AoI.

[Sychosis]

On 2007-11-11 21:46, SylviaEspada wrote:
Somehow I have a good feeling everyone and their mom is going to go AT one day 1 of AoI

For anyone who has YET to grasp those numbers... trust me, you will all think they're nothing when you go give a beat down as a fortefighter and get even higher numbers than that... a lot higher. They're crits, and you'll all get over it once you play in AoI.



I can't speak for everyone here, but I'm not "Oooh"ing and "Ahhh"ing over BIG NUMBARZ, but more for the fact that a TECHNIC centric class is getting melee damage that rivals its TECHNIC damage.

[Carlo210]

On 2007-11-11 21:53, Sychosis wrote:

On 2007-11-11 21:46, SylviaEspada wrote:
Somehow I have a good feeling everyone and their mom is going to go AT one day 1 of AoI

For anyone who has YET to grasp those numbers... trust me, you will all think they're nothing when you go give a beat down as a fortefighter and get even higher numbers than that... a lot higher. They're crits, and you'll all get over it once you play in AoI.



I can't speak for everyone here, but I'm not "Oooh"ing and "Ahhh"ing over BIG NUMBARZ, but more for the fact that a TECHNIC centric class is getting melee damage that rivals its TECHNIC damage.


No, a technic class with some melee capability is doing decent damage with melee crits.

Acrotecher is a hybrid. Melee is stronger in AoI, so the melee part of Acrotecher is pretty effective. Similar to how meleeing as a fortegunner will be very effective. That's all there is to it.

[unicorn]

CAST and Beast Acrotecher ftw.

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-11 22:19, Carlo210 wrote:
No, a technic class with some melee capability is doing decent damage with melee crits.
Total levels of Technic power: 70
Total levels of Melee power: 20
Total levels of Hunter: 0

And WHY is this class doing such respectable melee damage again?


On 2007-11-11 21:39, Sychosis wrote:
Certainly wasn't me. You and I see pretty much eye to eye on the topic of FTs.

I just prefer to be a bit less vocal about it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
Oh well. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif As long as I have a few allies on this lone, barren road that we FTs tread together. <3

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Remedy on 2007-11-11 22:51 ]</font>

[Xencia]

You really can't put level requirements into it. Protranser takes 5 levels of Force,and gets 0 Techic levels.

[Remedy]

And gets Force-esque ranged weapons like Cards and Longbows.

[Sychosis]

On 2007-11-11 22:19, Carlo210 wrote:
No, a technic class with some melee capability is doing decent damage with melee crits.

Acrotecher is a hybrid. Melee is stronger in AoI, so the melee part of Acrotecher is pretty effective. Similar to how meleeing as a fortegunner will be very effective. That's all there is to it.



Right. TECHNIC centric, just like I said. Even Fortetecher has some melee capability. Every class is a hybrid to some extent. Point is, it has a higher attack tech cap than skill cap, it has a higher TP mod than ATP mod. It was designed to be TECHNIC based with melee and ranged options but melee's overpoweredness causes even a TECHNIC focused class like Acrotecher to deal equal if not more damage with melee than TECHNICs.

[Remedy]

Y'know, really and truly, there's a few things that, if they did to Technics, would serve to vastly balance out the issues we have.

1) Let Ra-, Gi-, Nosu-, and Damu- technics hit multiple sections of multi-part enemies, just like melee PAs do.

2) Decrease the TP to damage factor from 5:1 to 4:1.


Those two changes would solve all our problems in a snap, honestly. Hell, with the first one, I don't think we'd even need the second one.

[Xencia]

Protranser only gets Bow,no cards anywhere near em. Why Bow? No idea,guess they wanted ForteGunners to be the only S rank riflers. If you play a Protranser,it's more of a 50/50(maybe 40/60) Melee/Ranger hybrid,nothing Force-like in it at all.

Now,AcroFighter is getting A rank cards,yet it has no force level requirements at all. The Requirements are just what they had left to make the classes not overlap,not an indication of the class itself.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Xencia on 2007-11-11 23:05 ]</font>

[Remedy]

Ah, derp, thought they had cards. My mistake. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Meh, I'm too lazy to argue it, but you've still got to agree that level 20 skills doing more damage over time than level 30 techs is pretty whack, especially with a higher TP mod AND on a race built for TP.

[Umberger]

On 2007-11-11 21:16, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:

On 2007-11-11 21:15, Ryno wrote:

I see an Okarod!

Yeah, Lumia has one. Still unreleased otherwise.



No she doesn't...but what she does have is an Okarodoc. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Remedy]

PWand > any other rod

This is not available for debate. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Xencia]

It's really no different then the Skill/Bullet thing. Level 30 Skills on Protranser is still far more likely to do their damage then level 40 Bullets. Melee is suppose to have the higher damage payoff for putting yourself at risk.

FighGunners also,aren't even close to as much a ranger as they are a hunter. They're more like the 'other' ForteFighter. Sure AcroFighter will likely be joining them,only good range weapon they have is cards,and while cards are good,wont compare to their melee. There all basically hunters,with high damage with item dependent recovery.

Protranser is like a ranger,that can pretend to be a hunter really well. And with ForteGunners getting level 20 Skills,the only good thing PT has over them is a better weapon selection,and the fact that no one would go ForteGunner and use melee.

While the Just system may be making melee bit too damaging,less button mashing will mean a lot more fun. I like the way AcroTecher is looking,but I'm a hybrid fan.

Maybe they could add a concentrated cast option or something for techers,let you link a tech more then once on Wand/Rod/Madoog,and for each time it gets 25~50% stronger. Rod Foie X4 would be like twice as strong as a normal one,or more.

[Umberger]

On 2007-11-12 00:05, Xencia wrote:Rod Foie X4 would be like twice as strong as a normal one,or more.



560% modifier Foie (40) you say? Dambarta (40) with a 280% modifier? I would be more than glad to carry around a few extra weapons to do that. XD

[Remedy]

...380% Nosuzonde (40)?
...320% Damumegid (40)?

...can I sign up for that here?

[Morganna]

I'm not too worried about acrotecher vs. other classes.

My concern is human acrotecher vs. other acrotechers.

Statswise, the bonus might not amount to much at first, but after a few hundred levels, it might make more of a difference won't it?

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-12 02:07, Morganna wrote:
Statswise, the bonus might not amount to much at first, but after a few hundred levels, it might make more of a difference won't it?


The bonus is already a lot. Humans have more DFP than Beasts. Human males have more ATP than Caseals and more ATA than female Newmans. Human females have more EVP than male Newmans.

But I wouldn’t worry about the bonus getting any higher than that. I mean, so far the growth rates have been set so that the deviations don’t change much, besides the ones that ST felt were unbalanced previously (read as Cast and Beast TP jumping from 30-40% Newman to 60-65%). So human stats will always look like that, but Casts will still have slightly higher ATP and higher HP, ATA, and DFP, Beasts will still have higher HP and ATP, and Newmans will still have slightly higher ATA and EVP and higher TP and MST.

So add a few hundred levels and the deviations will most likely increase in favor of the non-humans, but the percent deviation will still be small enough to argue “I’d rather just play human.”


As for the whole techer complaint, well, people realize that Acrotecher ends in the root word techer, but they don’t realize it begins in the root work acro. At this point you have to decide for yourself what does “acro” mean. Well, I’d argue it means access to 1 handed and twin weapons (which still fits the 1 weapon in each hand theme), designed for effective use of both in addition to a well-rounded stat distribution and a speed bonus. That would mean it was designed for effective use of all its stats. Not to mention that the word techer has nothing to do with tech damage, just the ability to use techniques. Look at Guntecher and Wartecher. No one even bothers debating whether or not they should use tech damage and WT has the same TP mod as ATP and the same damage tech cap as skills.

So, no, the techers didn’t lose a class. I mean, clue one that it could do melee damage should have been that it was a class designed for humans, who could only specialize in a class that could use all 3 attack and all 5 defense stats.

Anyway, the moral of this story is not to just say “TP high/tech cap high = more tech damage” and look at what the numbers actually mean. If you did, you would have known it would turn out this way back in May, if not as soon as they announced the Just Attack system.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-11-12 06:42 ]</font>

[RedCoKid]

On 2007-11-12 06:41, Pillan wrote:
At this point you have to decide for yourself what does “acro” mean.
acro = top
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/acro

forte = strong
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/forte

If you wanna be the "top" techer class, you'll have no other choice... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Pillan]

All I can say to that is nice... lol

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Wow, they gave Beasts and CASTs a bigger TP increase and yet, didn't give Newmans just as big of an ATP increase? That, sux.... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-12 07:24, Shiroryuu wrote:
Wow, they gave Beasts and CASTs a bigger TP increase and yet, didn't give Newmans just as big of an ATP increase? That, sux.... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif


They gave Beasts and Casts a huge TP increase after the level 50 cap (i.e., month 2 of PSU). Casts just hit around 60% Newman at the level 100 cap. That's not new to AoI.

Same thing happened with DFP and ATA as well, actually.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-11-12 07:40 ]</font>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Oh, I had no idea. My bad then. ._.

[realP]

The video is great in all, but everyone will have increased melee damage. I had no doubts about the Acrotecher's melee ability, so I do not know what the big surprise is here. They are still second form the bottom in terms of ATP, as this means any other class, except Fortetecher, would be dealing more melee damage. I am still jealous about their S-rank whips though.

[BigBadWolf]

Look, I know the majority of players could give a damn about Newmans in general, let alone Newman FTs.

But that ones that do care about the class, I'm sure you'll agree with me that Newman FTs had to put up with a lot of garbage.

We've always had to put up with garbage HP, DFP, and ATP stats, always.
We've had to put up with no racial ability, even though it's not a big deal.
Even though our MND was the highest, it was also garbage because it was useless 90% of the time.
We've had to put up with the fact that even with Massive TP and capped skills, melee almost always outdamaged us.
We've had to put up with being good at only one job, even though it was a pretty fun job.
We had to put up with the fact that our job didn't even function properly without a /Quick Unit, which until 3 weeks ago costed about 50mill.
We had to put up with knowing that every hybrid techer job, save WT was going to outsupport us in AoI.


And now you're telling us that our ATP stat which was 1/3rd of our TP stat, was going render our TP damage worthless, and We Should Have Seen This Coming?!?

It's amazing the things Newmans had to put up with.
Now I'm just waiting for someone to pop into this thread and tell us reroll as Cast or Beast and level all the way back to Lv. 100 (110?).

[Kinako78]

They can tell us to do it, but we're not gonna if we don't want to.

[Flwl3ssCowboy]

Reroll a cast or beast.

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-12 09:05, Flwl3ssCowboy wrote:
Reroll a cast or beast.

Okay, Starrz.

I'm not in the mood to waste a thousand hours of my playtime and delete a character who has been a virtual friend of mine for over seven years because ST screws over my chosen race/gender/class combination. I'll stick it out, I'll be vocal about it, but I'm not going to give up. FOnewearl forever.

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-12 00:05, Xencia wrote:
Melee is suppose to have the higher damage payoff for putting yourself at risk.Well fuck, then my Gi- technics should have like a 250+% TP modifier, since I'm putting myself at risk just as much as a meleer when I use them - and I'm a hell of a lot more fragile than they are!

[Kylie]

Whoa. If that's the damage an AT can do, I can't wait to see what a beast FF can do. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[BigBadWolf]

On 2007-11-12 09:45, Remedy wrote:

On 2007-11-12 00:05, Xencia wrote:
Melee is suppose to have the higher damage payoff for putting yourself at risk.Well fuck, then my Gi- technics should have like a 250+% TP modifier, since I'm putting myself at risk just as much as a meleer when I use them - and I'm a hell of a lot more fragile than they are!



Pwned

[Kinako78]

On 2007-11-12 09:05, Flwl3ssCowboy wrote:
Reroll a cast or beast.



Um...NO!



Okay, Starrz.

I'm not in the mood to waste a thousand hours of my playtime and delete a character who has been a virtual friend of mine for over seven years because ST screws over my chosen race/gender/class combination. I'll stick it out, I'll be vocal about it, but I'm not going to give up. FOnewearl forever.

That's exactly my point. I know from experience that someone's not going to give up on a character they've worked so hard on and gotten so attached to.

[Neith]

On 2007-11-12 09:43, Remedy wrote:
I'm not in the mood to waste a thousand hours of my playtime and delete a character who has been a virtual friend of mine for over seven years because ST screws over my chosen race/gender/class combination. I'll stick it out, I'll be vocal about it, but I'm not going to give up. FOHUnewearl forever.


Fixed http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif I'm still at a loss as to why everyone seems to think that because Newmans have the least HP/ATP etc that they are therefore not fit for anything other than Fortetecher. It's wrong, while a Newman obviously will never be outdamaging another race, they can still perform to a reasonable degree in other jobs. I've played a Newman Fortegunner briefly, and I now play a Newman Fortefighter/Fighgunner, who will be Acrofighter come AoI. I can still take whatever PSU throws at me, just the numbers aren't as big as say, a Beast.

Hell, I have more fun playing a Newman fighter than any other race/class combination so far, including my Lv100 Beast fF http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[physic]

actually from what i ve seen, gi spels with a me quick dont put you at much risk, due to the flincheffect, also teh fact you dont have to use it make a big difference. honestly melee was way underpowered before aoi, without a force your useless, and try to beat a ra with leveled bullets without a 50% a rank and good luck. people talking about what hunters could do with 50% weaps, realize that is an aberration due to haxeta. with level 10-20 percent weapons gunner and even force will smash you while taking much less damage.

Also thing to consider with a force is, 5% of everyone elses dmg and 5% of their defense belong to the force and there isnt much way to calculate how much the acc /evade helps. and in aoi 10% will belong to the acrotecher. this is in addition to making running out of meds a non issue. as well as dealing pretty good damage.

at level 80 cap i remember seeing a force doing 1k gidiga on vhara hitting like 5 at once, i couldnt compete with that, no weapon in psu allows 5 until at best the third hit of a combo. now add 10 levels of a skill, 20 levels of tp and 5 job levels, im sure that techers dont suck.

[Remedy]

We don't "suck", but we are outpaced for damage by meleers even with mid-elemental weapons due to ridiculously high ATP-mod PAs like Spinning Strike, Gravity Break, and Majarra, not to mention the absolutely bat-shit stupid Ick Hick and Absolute Dance.

[Dragwind]

Why the hell are people getting the idea now that forces suck just because of hunter boosts? Open your eyes people, don't believe what random people claim.

[Rashiid]

AT <3

Something tells me I'm never leaving this class....
Gather `round for resta!

[Remedy]

Again:

We are outdone in damage by: GT, WT, AF, (possibly) AT, FF, FG, FiG
We are outdone in support by: AT

Hrm. That leaves... what, exactly? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif

[BigBadWolf]

On 2007-11-12 10:53, Remedy wrote:
Again:

We are outdone in damage by: GT, WT, AF, (possibly) AT, FF, FG, FiG
We are outdone in support by: AT

Hrm. That leaves... what, exactly? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif



FFXI expansion, or Tabula Rasa if you're on PC.

Edit: No I'm kidding. FFXI sucks.

I really pray though that Guntechers can't outdamage a level 40 tech FT.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BigBadWolf on 2007-11-12 11:07 ]</font>

[Shou]

Forces? maybe...

[Chaobo99]

someone should also made a "technic/support AT video" http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[RadiantLegend]

Let us melee fighters enjoy our reign for now.

The days of the ill gill will return ..... and we shall get pwnt again.

[EphekZ]

Y'know, Fortegunners have level 20 PAs. with Majarra and Gravity strike, it could become like BB where Hunters became obsolete since Rangers could melee and use guns http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Lamak]

Fortegunners are going to be pretty powerful, becasue of Dus Majarra and Spinning Strike Access, but they don't have access to Slicers.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-11-11 23:16, Umberger wrote:
No she doesn't...but what she does have is an Okarodoc. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Yeah, my bad.

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-12 10:59, BigBadWolf wrote:
I really pray though that Guntechers can't outdamage a level 40 tech FT.Level 40 Bullets, S-rank Crossbows and Dualies and Longbows. Plus, better ATP than us, and their TP isn't terrible, either.

[Carlo210]

baaww

[-Tidus_415-]

On 2007-11-12 11:11, EphekZ wrote:
Y'know, Fortegunners have level 20 PAs. with Majarra and Gravity strike, it could become like BB where Hunters became obsolete since Rangers could melee and use guns http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



It's better not to be a useless Fortegunner and just be a Fighgunner with LV40 Skills and Lv30 Bullets since xbows + twin handguns > everything.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Tidus_415- on 2007-11-12 12:10 ]</font>

[Xencia]

As for the Gi-Techs,I have a WarTecher,right now,I have nothing that can equal the damage she can put out spamming the opposite elemental Gi in a crowd. 500X6 every 1.5-2 seconds beats my best Gravity Break hands down.