AotI: Which should I keep? 50% Ice Nightwalker or 44% Ice Sw

[Agnostic187]

No use for both of them, opinions?

[Remedy]

I'd keep the Sweet Death, as it'll be more powerful after the elemental change. Trade that Nightwalker in for a mid-range Sweet Death of a more "useful" element, IMO.

[6string4play]

Anya here... sell them and sell them fast.

[oooWaveooo]

coincidentally i may be interested in a nightwalker of that caliber

[darkante]

No contest here..keep that Sweet Death. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[6string4play]

Nah man, out with the old, in with the new. By time AOI is released, SweetDeath will be old hat and you'd probably only get half of what someone would pay now. Not to mention that synth successes will get an increase meaning more high% Sweetdeaths on the market.

[Remedy]

44 and 50% weapons are still "rare" in the expansion as well. It's just more of a bell curve for elements, not a declining slope. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[pokefiend]

On 2007-11-11 05:02, Remedy wrote:
I'd keep the Sweet Death, as it'll be more powerful after the elemental change.

*cough*Walkerline*cough*cough*

[crocky612]

Keep the sweet death because after grinds it will be way stronger in AOI

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-11 06:04, pokefiend wrote:
*cough*Walkerline*cough*cough*
Touche, that had slipped my mind. Is its set with the Nightwalker confirmed?

[ljkkjlcm9]

sweetdeath also has a sleep SE, though you rarely see it, it is there and may help you decide. Honestly? I'd keep both for now. A 44/50% weapon is good anytime, especially of that high rank.

THE JACKEL

[Broodstar1337]

On 2007-11-11 06:04, pokefiend wrote:

On 2007-11-11 05:02, Remedy wrote:
I'd keep the Sweet Death, as it'll be more powerful after the elemental change.

*cough*Walkerline*cough*cough*



Yeah? How much is the boost? Enough to pick Nightwalker over Sweet Death? When was the last time you saw someone use a Gigush to compliment the Gigush Line?

[Remedy]

25% of the weapons ATP and ATA (and 25% of the armor's DFP).

Does that boost make it better? You do the math. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Edit: Bah, I'll just do it for you.

Sweet Death: 136 ATA, 363 ATP
Nightwalker with Walkerline: 142.5 ATA, 418.75 ATP

Yeah, I'd say that's better. You can also make up the PP difference with just 3 grinds. (2 grinds puts it at 2 PP below Sweet Death)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Remedy on 2007-11-11 08:31 ]</font>

[Gen2000]

On 2007-11-11 07:15, Broodstar1337 wrote:
[quote]

Yeah? How much is the boost? Enough to pick Nightwalker over Sweet Death? When was the last time you saw someone use a Gigush to compliment the Gigush Line?



Gigush set isn't exactly fair to compare. Low star melee sets like that needs to be +10 to even be comparable to a Jogiri +0. Ignoring the fact that Caliburn+0 beats it cleanly, with the safer grinding system in AoI that set isn't really worth it anymore.

Sets like Rabol Gant and Walkerline use weapons that are only one star off from their 10* Srank counterparts so it's easy for them to be better even not grinded when adding in the bonus from the set. (i.e. Gudda Gant +0 has 499 ATP when using the set vs. Gudda Skela +0's 410).

How easy it is to get the armor also matters when concerning the value of a set. Before the event Rabol Gants wasn't that common now they drop like candy during Moatoob B EX missions, easily enough to mass produce synth em and get a rainbow set of high %s with instead having like only 1 or 2 armors with 10-14% element at best. How easy it is to get the Walkerline in AoI will matter a lot in how worthy the set is. From the jibbish I could make out on jp psu wiki it seems to be a boss box only drop...hope the drop rates is better in AoI than v.1 when concering boss boxes.

I would rather use the Walkerline set than Sweet Death because Sweet Death looks dumb IMO, Nightwalker isn't exactly grand either but at least it doesn't leave a trail of hearts...


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gen2000 on 2007-11-11 08:48 ]</font>

[McLaughlin]

On 2007-11-11 07:15, Broodstar1337 wrote:

On 2007-11-11 06:04, pokefiend wrote:

On 2007-11-11 05:02, Remedy wrote:
I'd keep the Sweet Death, as it'll be more powerful after the elemental change.

*cough*Walkerline*cough*cough*



Yeah? How much is the boost? Enough to pick Nightwalker over Sweet Death? When was the last time you saw someone use a Gigush to compliment the Gigush Line?



I do...

That's a damn good combo.

[Agnostic187]

Well right now I'm ok in Nightwalkers I guess.

50% Fire, Ice(Sweet Death 44% probably), Ground and I hope I can buy the 50% dark off my friend, which leaves me with Lightning, which is the only reason I wanted to trade Sweet Death for another ele of the same %, due to the expansion missions not being very friendly to Ice weapons.

However, it's not as big of a deal or rush seeing as that I have to make Madoogs/Slicers with some good elements anyway, It shall work out eventually.

I have decided to sell my Nightwalker and keep the SD for the time being.

Won't turn this into a trading post so I'm not selling it here.

Thanks for the input, I want to get the Walkerline before I worry about it.

[Pillan]

Remeber that the percent nerf just lowered the deviation between 44% and 50%. On a weapon with as low ATP as a double saber, a 50% 9 star is still going to be stronger than a 44% 10 star and it will become more and more obvious as you continue to level up.

That being said, I'd just keep both. I mean, you usually drain the PP out of more than 1 ice weapon per run anyway.

[Agnostic187]

I read earlier that that'll make it do more damage. But whatever way, I'll be grinding it anyway, and it'll do more Critical 's at least.

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-11 09:51, Pillan wrote:
On a weapon with as low ATP as a double saber, a 50% 9 star is still going to be stronger than a 44% 10 star and it will become more and more obvious as you continue to level up.
Unfortunately, no.

Nightwalker 50%'s ATP versus enemies of its opposing element: 502.5

Sweet Death 44%'s ATP versus enemies of its opposing element: 522.72

Unless paired with Walkerline, a 44% Ice Sweet Death will outpace a 50% Ice Nightwalker against fire enemies.

[Pillan]

Okay, so I guess I was off about that at the moment, but in the long run the higher percent will always be more damage just because of the higher multiplier.

I mean, just do the math:

[% difference] = ([percent value 1]*([weapon ATP 1]+) - [percent value 2]*([weapon ATP 2]+[base ATP]))/ ([percent value 1]*([weapon ATP 1]+[base ATP])

Then take the limit that base ATP >> weapon ATP 2 and you’ll get that

[% difference] = ([percent value 1] – [percent value 2])/[percent 1]

So in the long run the higher percent [b]always does more damage, regardless of how much or little higher percents are nerfed. I'm willing to bet that the Nightwalker will do more damage on day 1 of the AoI update, actually.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-11-11 15:36 ]</font>

[Remedy]

No, it won't, because base ATP is not modified by the elemental percent. That's why the fucking change was implemented.

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-11 15:39, Remedy wrote:
No, it won't, because base ATP is not modified by the elemental percent. That's why the fucking change was implemented.


Actually it isn't. You can look in this thread (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=157837&forum=22&56) and do some calculations with the given data to prove to yourself that it still modifies base ATP in some way and is not just applied to weapon. How exactly the overall effect was implemented is still debatable, but I say it’s a straight nerf to the value of the effect where 10% = 10% and 50% = 38%.

[Remedy]

*shrug* Whatever. This is why I don't play a melee class, because the whole elemental percent thing is stupid, and an A-rank weapon should not outdamage an S-rank weapon for any virtue aside from grinds.

I'm going to bed. I have work in 6 hours.

[Esufer]

On 2007-11-11 04:56, Agnostic187 wrote:
No use for both of them, opinions?



That depends, do you want to look like a pansy, or a kayak owner?

That is, if you ever choose to use it.

[Lyrise]

If you have no use for both of them, you may as well sell both of them. Tons of sweetdeathic boards will drop in expansion, while inferior to sweet death itself, it might just have an effect. Plus, take advantage of the market while the ability to get a high ratio is low. Cause in Expansion, its a bit easier to get high ratios (not quite 50%, but you can get a few 38-42%s effortlessly for less than what you could sell those 2 weapons at.

If you gotta keep one though, keep the nightwalker. You'll be able to grind that pretty easily; S ranks are REALLY annoying to grind, and just getting to 5 is hell. (You WILL burn up S+9s to get this far)

[Agnostic187]

Well Im keeping the Sweet Death until I can upgrade. I'm not exactly pressed for cash, but I need one Ice double saber at least.