ARE FORCES DEAD TO PSU?

[RappyRobot]

As I read more and more about Aoi I just wonder is my force really worth it sometimes or should I focus my energy elsewhere.
Like others have said it just seems like forces are getting swept under the rug and the new acrotecher vs foretecher arguments aren't helping. wtf is sega doing.
they are destroying the force class yet again in favor of melee and gunners.
there is no more new techs in the aoi data (unless they patch new spells in) and fortetechers are getting the shaft and not getting lvl 40 buffs.
should i just make a wartecher and call it a day?
sad part is I luv my fo http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif but if nobody wants u in the party unless your a resta/buff/reverser machine then y bother. Not too mention people dont realize the pressure a fo has in game. healing/buffs/reverser/giresta/trying to damage/lvling those darn spells/trying not to die because I have no hp/trying to get stuff when the melee leader sets everything to give finder.....its a lot of work (sometimes I get frustrated and switch off to my melee or gunner just to get a break lol) and I usually feel very underappreciated.
Is there hope? or should I just go wartecher ?

[pikachief]

i think acrotecher is the greatest class ever.

i put the thing about forces dying cuz i thought u meant FT XD

acrotechers are still really good i love them, i may have to switch main characters in the expansion! (im not a force type of person either http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif )

[Turambar]

Well, someone has to cast the resta /jking

But seriously, players give the jobs they play its definitive role. FOs will have a point as long as it has players.

[PALRAPPYS]

I'll be playing both fT and AT in the expansion.

fT gets rods, so great TP. Plus Psycho wands. Plus lv40 techs.

What's not to love? Everybody assumes they're crap all of a sudden. :/

[RappyRobot]

On 2007-11-12 17:40, pikachief wrote:
i think acrotecher is the greatest class ever.

i put the thing about forces dying cuz i thought u meant FT XD

acrotechers are still really good i love them, i may have to switch main characters in the expansion! (im not a force type of person either http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif )

plz tell me what makes them great. they have lvl 40 buffs but tp is lowered and their attack techs dont got to 40. thier melee goes to 20 but newmans have no atp?

its seems like your getting (insert bad word here) at every turn no matter what? tell me the good stuff lol?

[RappyRobot]

On 2007-11-12 17:43, PALRAPPYS wrote:
I'll be playing both fT and AT in the expansion.

fT gets rods, so great TP. Plus Psycho wands. Plus lv40 techs.

What's not to love? Everybody assumes they're crap all of a sudden. :/



I agree and dont agree. can forces keep up damage wise. honestly?

[Anduril]

I just don't understand why people assume that fTs are supposed to be a support class that will be outshined by AT because of support TECHS. Woop-dee-Freakin'-Doo. I myself am more of an attack Techer. I think having ATs will ease the annoyance of having that one fighter who refuses to wait for everyone yelling for Resta when he's half way across the map. I think that fTs will start playing more as long/mid ranged attack support along with gunners, instead of having to run into the mobs to get close enough to the fighters. Just my two cents.

[PALRAPPYS]

On 2007-11-12 17:43, RappyRobot wrote:

On 2007-11-12 17:40, pikachief wrote:
i think acrotecher is the greatest class ever.

i put the thing about forces dying cuz i thought u meant FT XD

acrotechers are still really good i love them, i may have to switch main characters in the expansion! (im not a force type of person either http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif )

plz tell me what makes them great. they have lvl 40 buffs but tp is lowered and their attack techs dont got to 40. thier melee goes to 20 but newmans have no atp?

its seems like your getting (insert bad word here) at every turn no matter what? tell me the good stuff lol?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3PvDbJ1q-8

Impressive, no?

[RappyRobot]

On 2007-11-12 17:48, Anduril wrote:
I think having ATs will ease the annoyance of having that one fighter who refuses to wait for everyone yelling for Resta when he's half way across the map.


story of my life lol http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[SStrikerR]

On 2007-11-12 17:48, Anduril wrote:
I just don't understand why people assume that fTs are supposed to be a support class that will be outshined by AT because of support TECHS. Woop-dee-Freakin'-Doo. I myself am more of an attack Techer. I think having ATs will ease the annoyance of having that one fighter who refuses to wait for everyone yelling for Resta when he's half way across the map. I think that fTs will start playing more as long/mid ranged attack support along with gunners, instead of having to run into the mobs to get close enough to the fighters. Just my two cents.

make it 4 cents now.

[pikachief]

On 2007-11-12 17:45, RappyRobot wrote:

On 2007-11-12 17:43, PALRAPPYS wrote:
I'll be playing both fT and AT in the expansion.

fT gets rods, so great TP. Plus Psycho wands. Plus lv40 techs.

What's not to love? Everybody assumes they're crap all of a sudden. :/



I agree and dont agree. can forces keep up damage wise. honestly?



acrotechers with har quicks can cast gispells faster than teh spell can come out, so that they start to overlap. I think if u use it right yes they can keep up wihtdamagae especially with the TP boost techers get in the expansion and the ATP boost that will help with their striking weapons. the damage is very high for a techer class.

[OldCoot]

Time will tell I guess. I know that you can't strike something and cast Diga at the same time. You choose how to do the damage. I think AT will be a great soloing class. I might switch my Fortetecher Newman over for a while, maybe to level support up? Just a week or so away.

[MaximusLight]

HAve you hugged your FO?

[RappyRobot]

On 2007-11-12 18:27, MaximusLight wrote:
HAve you hugged your FO?




<.< no no i havent

but I hugged my rappy does that count http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[BanF]

Forces are still viable. The word from Japan is that the only real class casualty is Wartecher.

[RappyRobot]

On 2007-11-12 18:37, BanF wrote:
Forces are still viable. The word from Japan is that the only real class casualty is Wartecher.



really how come http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[pikachief]

On 2007-11-12 18:38, RappyRobot wrote:

On 2007-11-12 18:37, BanF wrote:
Forces are still viable. The word from Japan is that the only real class casualty is Wartecher.



really how come http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



idk i like wartechers in the expansion.

I've also seen a lot of acrotechers in the JP side..... its a really good class. you'll all see soon ^.^

[Broodstar1337]

Forces are a dying breed. They don't hurt as well and their support can be duplicated through the use of mates, atomizers, and buff items.

Acrotecher; I think of this class as a means to give forces a little bit of life blood by giving it respectable ATP and decent melee weapons. Other than that... well let's just say there are reasons why I switched my main on XBL to a Cast Fortegunner.

[Soukosa]

On 2007-11-12 17:48, Anduril wrote:
I just don't understand why people assume that fTs are supposed to be a support class that will be outshined by AT because of support TECHS. Woop-dee-Freakin'-Doo. I myself am more of an attack Techer. I think having ATs will ease the annoyance of having that one fighter who refuses to wait for everyone yelling for Resta when he's half way across the map. I think that fTs will start playing more as long/mid ranged attack support along with gunners, instead of having to run into the mobs to get close enough to the fighters. Just my two cents.

Probably because they fail at the FT job and don't know how to effectively play it so they feel they need to be there to do support and die all over the place because they're so physically weak to feel useful to the party.

If you ask me, its easier to do support on a GT than it is on an FT due to attacks not needing to take time to cast.



On 2007-11-12 17:50, PALRAPPYS wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3PvDbJ1q-8

Impressive, no?

Considering how a good FT can do the same damage, if not more, from a safe distance... no, not at all.

Now, this (http://www.mithra.to/~psu/uploader/src/psu9290.jpg) this[/url] is impressive. Leave the 1337 damage to the jobs that are optimized for it. FT is one of them and now they don't have to worry about doing support unless they're the only techer in the party.

[mvffin]

On 2007-11-12 18:38, RappyRobot wrote:

On 2007-11-12 18:37, BanF wrote:
Forces are still viable. The word from Japan is that the only real class casualty is Wartecher.



really how come http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


they're purely hybrid, they excel at nothing but versatility, and its probably hard to have a good palette for every situation, their job changes depending on the jobs around them, and my guess is people would rather focus on their own strengths than covering other people's weaknesses. I've had a WT for about 80 Levels and i'm fine with her, though I don't see many other WT out there. I'm going to stay WT for at least a little while in AOI, if its really that disappointing, i'll switch to FI.

FT will always be around, its job has just shifted a little. FT/AT in a party will be like having two FT's now, they both dont need to buff and heal all the time, so one will be straight tech damage. If there are enemies in the expansion that are melee/bullet resistant, FT will be that much more useful.

[BanF]

On 2007-11-12 18:38, RappyRobot wrote:

On 2007-11-12 18:37, BanF wrote:
Forces are still viable. The word from Japan is that the only real class casualty is Wartecher.



really how come http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


Well, FTs can still do good with S wands and rods, but the AT trumps the WT in melee and support techs, while neither can be called good on attack techs. AT seems to be WT Advanced.

[Kamica]

On 2007-11-12 18:57, Soukosa wrote:




On 2007-11-12 17:50, PALRAPPYS wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3PvDbJ1q-8

Impressive, no?

Considering how a good FT can do the same damage, if not more, from a safe distance... no, not at all.


What proof do you have? None. We have already discussed this. Casting is only more effective if you were to be interuppted by an enemy. Otherwise melee ALWAYS wins.

[Chuck_Norris]

Forces were dead once FT came out >.>

Anyway. If you meant FT's, i say FT wins out. Even though AT gets 40 support spells. FT has S bows and level 30 bullets. That gives them SE 4, which in my opinion, is much better than 40 resta.

[ThEoRy]

On 2007-11-12 18:46, Broodstar1337 wrote:
Forces are a dying breed. They don't hurt as well and their support can be duplicated through the use of mates, atomizers, and buff items.

Acrotecher; I think of this class as a means to give forces a little bit of life blood by giving it respectable ATP and decent melee weapons. Other than that... well let's just say there are reasons why I switched my main on XBL to a Cast Fortegunner.


fT will never die. Ask me again in 4 years when I'm a lvl 200 fT lvl 20 doing bigger numbers than your worst nightmares couldn't even comprehend.

[Dragwind]

On 2007-11-12 18:59, BanF wrote:

On 2007-11-12 18:38, RappyRobot wrote:

On 2007-11-12 18:37, BanF wrote:
Forces are still viable. The word from Japan is that the only real class casualty is Wartecher.



really how come http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


Well, FTs can still do good with S wands and rods, but the AT trumps the WT in melee and support techs, while neither can be called good on attack techs. AT seems to be WT Advanced.



Lol, he said AT trumps WT in melee

[PALRAPPYS]

I didn't mean to start an argument with the AT melee video...

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_confused.gif

Both classes must be still useful in the expansion... if you have a Psycho Wand that's lot of TP... plus grinding makes it really powerful... and 40 techs... so I'm sure there's some things behind this.

[Lyrise]

On 2007-11-12 19:05, Kamica wrote:

On 2007-11-12 18:57, Soukosa wrote:




On 2007-11-12 17:50, PALRAPPYS wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3PvDbJ1q-8

Impressive, no?

Considering how a good FT can do the same damage, if not more, from a safe distance... no, not at all.


What proof do you have? None. We have already discussed this. Casting is only more effective if you were to be interuppted by an enemy. Otherwise melee ALWAYS wins.



Go ahead, I dare you to melee those Jarbas in S2 lakeside, endrum and denes even. Both AT and FT have their strong points to work with, but everyone seems to be blind to those points.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lyrise on 2007-11-12 19:24 ]</font>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Umm, techs will fail against Jarbas too. I'd prefer to spam Ice cards on them, or earth for those Lightning aka gimp Jarbas in AoI.

[mizukage]

I find the forces' attacks to be most effective against monsters, such as the high leveled ones. Although I prefer melee style, but considering that my sword attacks are doing like 100-200 damage to the Dulk Falkis, whereas Foie can yield as much as 750-1600 damage. It does change a S-rank mission into an A-rank... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[Dj_SkyEpic]

On 2007-11-12 19:46, Shiroryuu wrote:
Umm, techs will fail against Jarbas too. I'd prefer to spam Ice cards on them, or earth for those Lightning aka gimp Jarbas in AoI.

Cards, bows, or even rifles mainly.


Towards the OP:
Forces are never dead. The one in me will always be a full fT!
[spoiler-box]Level 50 Technics, f**k yea.[/spoiler-box]

[Zael]

Forces aren't the ones screwed. Newmans are :/

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-12 19:07, ThEoRy wrote:
fT will never die. Ask me again in 4 years when I'm a lvl 200 fT lvl 20 doing bigger numbers than your worst nightmares couldn't even comprehend.Yeah, while the FF next to you is doing numbers that are about 80% as big, but he's doing 4 of them in the time it takes us to do one. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Zael]

On 2007-11-12 19:07, ThEoRy wrote:
fT will never die. Ask me again in 4 years when I'm a lvl 200 fT lvl 20 doing bigger numbers than your worst nightmares couldn't even comprehend.


I'd probably be more busy laughing at how you're bragging about your damage 4 years later, and not realizing that not even level 50 Diga will hit for more than a JA'd Gravity Break with a 50% sword.

[Remedy]

Or JA'd Ick Hick with 50% fists.

Or JA'd Absolute Dance with 50% DSabers.

Or JA'd Spinning Strike with 50% Sabers.

Or JA'd Dus Majarra with 50% Spears.

*shuts up now*

[Schubalts]

Yes...50%...

[Remedy]

I already get out-DPSed by people spamming Majarra with midrange (like 20%) weapons. Stuff like Ick Hick is going to be even worse.

[landman]

As a fighter I'm constantly using Trimates as necessary but I appreciate when a force boosts me every 4 minutes since I am a Beast Fortefighter with no accuracy at all -.- I can use -rides also but it's better a lvl 21 buff http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Umberger]

On 2007-11-12 22:19, Remedy wrote:
I already get out-DPSed by people spamming Majarra with midrange (like 20%) weapons. Stuff like Ick Hick is going to be even worse.



Ick Hick (and Absolute Dance for that matter) has a pretty annoying startup time, and if that combo gets interrupted...you just wasted a lot of time and PP.

[Remedy]

*shrug* We'll see. Like I said, I'm playing FT because I enjoy the class and because I love the Psycho Wand, not because it's going to be good for anything.

[Mystil]

Fortetecher has poor modifiers. Force is almost better than it...

[Remedy]

Among other problems, yeah.

Like I said, if they let Gi/Ra/Damu/Nosu techs hit multiple segments of multi-segment enemies, that would solve a LOT of our issues.

[ThEoRy]

Show me where in my post I said I'd be doing the hugest numbers in the game...... Oh wait I didn't say that at all. What I was saying however is that I will be doing huge numbers, period. You guys are acting like I'll be even weaker than I am now when in fact I'll be much stronger. plus how do u know sega wont push the nerf button on some of your fav. melee pa's? They've done it b4.. Truth is we don't know everything that's going to happen. I can guarantee u this though. I will be doing huge numbers as we ALL will. We're all only getting stronger from this point on. So I wish everyone would just stfu around here about how fT isn't the uber bestest lolmygodbignumberzz. We might be masterclasses by then anyway and who knows what damage we'll do. So just chill the fuck out and let the chips fall where they may.

[RappyRobot]

didnt mean to start a brawl lol http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Mwabwetumba]

Uh oh, and I'm going to start a caseal fortetecher once AoI gets here.. looks like I'm in for quite a harsh ride.

[Ogni-XR21]

I don't see where the problem is for you guys.

FT gets to nuke, AT gets to support. Finally a defined role for each tech-job.

[Remedy]

No, it's AT gets to be useful and FT gets to be dead weight.

We only really shine because of our support prowess as it is right now. Take that away from us and what's left?

Like I said, I'm not concerned with being useful anymore, though. This community isn't worth giving up my happiness for theirs. If it was the PSO:BB community, maybe, but not PSU's.

[Guildenstern]

...Just play whatever class you like and don't worry about it. PSU is not such a complicated or hard game that you need worry overmuch about what class you play, the monsters are going to die in 5 seconds flat anyway and it's not like this is a 'hard' MMORPG like FFXI where you have to worry about endgame or alliance fights against super difficult and huge monsters. If you like offensive TECH play Fortetecher.

Such people who have issues with an FT because they're 'omg not teh best buffar lolz dps wwwwwwwww' in PSU aren't worth worrying about anyway. Just pick the class you like and have a good time with it, OK? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[TetsuyaHikari]

Shouldn't this be...

"Fighgunners dead to PSU?"

instead?

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_confused.gif

[Remedy]

Nah. They still can do very respectable damage, are a versatile class when played by an intelligent player, and are still the only people with Double Sabers. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Garanz-Baranz]

Although I just started a Force character for Fortetecher, I say, it's insanely fun!, Just plasting things with Vanda rocks, Zoona spit, and other such things just ROCKS, and it's good damage too, and she's only level 5! XD

But seriously, most Fortetechers in the parties I've been with in recent are pretty good, and not just for their Buff's Resta's and Giresta's, but for how they use BOTH Buffs and Attack techs for their job.

Buffing in the start of a mission, then attacking such and such, with Foie, Dambarta, Regrants, the works, just is effective.

Now, you can specialize in Support with Buffs, Debuffs, and so on, to be a great support, or on the flip side, you can use massive damage Techs on pesterful High HP enemies to kill them.

Theres only one Tech that I find MUST be in EVERY Fortetechers pallet, Resta, that's the only Tech that I wish for from every Fortetecher atleast sometimes in a run, One Fortetecher Resta is like 1500+ HP, perfect for us FF's with over 2000 HP.

AT might be better support Buffwise, but I'll trust a nice ol' Fortetecher better. =3

[TetsuyaHikari]

On 2007-11-13 05:15, Remedy wrote:
Nah. They still can do very respectable damage, are a versatile class when played by an intelligent player, and are still the only people with Double Sabers. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



Yeah, this is when you actually see someone who IS a Fighgunner >.>

I've seen less Fighgunners recently compared to Force of Fortetecher. Seems pretty dead to me o.o

[zandra117]

Arguments like these is why the master classes were made. MasterForce will be like all the techers combined but will require you to master all the techer classes before you can change to it.

[Remedy]

I guarantee you that probably 80%, at least, of Fortechers will end up AT the second they get on AotI.

[TetsuyaHikari]

Yep. I've heard a LOT of people want to switch from FT to AT. I personally don't understand it, since I'm not familiar with either type, but..still seems kind of silly to me *shrugs*

[Schubalts]

Because they think they are useless if they aren't healbots. I don't know why. It only seems to be Fortetechers that think Fortetechers are useless, though.

[Remedy]

Again, if we are outdamaged by virtually every class in the game, and we are outsupported by Acrotechers, what purpose do we serve, outside of an easy source of epileptic seizures?

[Kamiense]

It doesn't matter to me whether or not we're "useless" as people claim. I love to make things explode. I don't want to be a buff, heal bot (Better known as an aT) and make flashy spells explode on screen, having fun with my over $150 investment.

I don't care what people say about my class. I'm appalled that so many people think that aT will make their lives SO much better as a techer.

Guess what.

5% buffs don't even matter. Wow, going from let's say 500 damage to 525. It won't kill monsters faster, and you do mediocre melee damage, even with JA.

To all fTs that are wimping out and going aT because they support better, I say good ridance. Keep the class that I love to people who can fucking play it. We aren't useless, and we can do everything those aTs can do and more.

Stop bitching about whether or not fTs are useless (You know who you are), and enjoy the game. If you like being a squishy heal bot, go ahead. If you like making things explode and pushing your graphics card to the edge with mind blowing graphics, that's fine too, but NEVER TELL SOMEONE HOW TO PLAY THE GAME!

Sheesh.

[Krisan]

On 2007-11-13 06:22, Remedy wrote:
Again, if we are outdamaged by virtually every class in the game, and we are outsupported by Acrotechers, what purpose do we serve, outside of an easy source of epileptic seizures?


Simply put, it doesn't really matter. No matter how useless someone might see a class to be, this game isn't difficult enough for it to matter.. any type of group can work just fine together regardless of classes, assuming the players aren't idiots.

So long as you're having fun, it shouldn't matter to you either.. And to some people, flashy spells are fun. To be honest, I don't understand what the obsession is with classes.. especially lately. No class is truly "useless" at anything, since every class (even the weakest of the links) is viable in a party. The only reason this should bother anyone is if they're obsessed with being the best.. and frankly, that just gives me a headache.. The game is about fun, not being the best. (Especially in this game, where the "best" isn't really going to accomplish much over any other class..)

I doubt in most parties anyone would even notice what the hell class you were anyway (I rarely see people who notice this, aside from close friends.. who don't care what class I am anyway), so why people worry so much is beyond me.

[Ken_Silver]

almost every class is dead to everyone else. People rag an forces because melee fighters can do more damage. Wartechers get the bad rap because they are too versatile to others and that the new classes will make them obsolete. Fightgunners are loosing there edge also due to AF and AT's too. Guntechers have always gotten the dirty end of the stick and Protransers were everyone's kicking boy until they got a very much needed upgrade in AOI. And almost every current class will be rookie status, if you read and want to believe in the all powerful Master Classes that will show up in AOI spring (estimated guess). So the lesson of today is: every class that "sucks" is a good class, for everyone will have an opinion on something. Let's just hope that these opinions don't turn into discrimination when it comes to forming parties.

[Remedy]

For me, it is less a desire to be "the best" as it is a desire to be "useful". A Fortecher's usefulness fades when she's paired with another FT (as there's support redundancy) or, in AotI, an Acrotecher (as now her support is useless). Our damage is already falling behind melee classes, and it's only going to get worse with the base ATP increases and higher overall average of elemental weapons.

But whatever. Like I said, the community isn't worth sacrificing my happiness for theirs. I would've in PSO:BB (and did - I became a Melee Foney so I could do appreciable damage and use a Bringer's Rifle well in PW4), but not in PSU.

[Ken_Silver]

On 2007-11-13 07:15, Remedy wrote:
For me, it is less a desire to be "the best" as it is a desire to be "useful". A Fortecher's usefulness fades when she's paired with another FT (as there's support redundancy) or, in AotI, an Acrotecher (as now her support is useless). Our damage is already falling behind melee classes, and it's only going to get worse with the base ATP increases and higher overall average of elemental weapons.

But whatever. Like I said, the community isn't worth sacrificing my happiness for theirs. I would've in PSO:BB (and did - I became a Melee Foney so I could do appreciable damage and use a Bringer's Rifle well in PW4), but not in PSU.



I agree completley. In the end, when someone desperatley needs someone to join in a run, they will take whoever. Class becomes irrelevant. Just have fun http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Kinako78]

On 2007-11-12 23:57, Umberger wrote:

On 2007-11-12 22:19, Remedy wrote:
I already get out-DPSed by people spamming Majarra with midrange (like 20%) weapons. Stuff like Ick Hick is going to be even worse.



Ick Hick (and Absolute Dance for that matter) has a pretty annoying startup time, and if that combo gets interrupted...you just wasted a lot of time and PP.



Based on a video I saw, it seems like Ick Hick can't be interrupted. Yes, the user can take damage while it's being used, but it doesn't seem to cancel it.

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-13 08:11, Kinako78 wrote:
Based on a video I saw, it seems like Ick Hick can't be interrupted. Yes, the user can take damage while it's being used, but it doesn't seem to cancel it.Wish Megiverse functioned like that. It would make the spell actually worth something. Flinching due to like... 25 damage and canceling the spell = lame as hell

[Mystil]

On 2007-11-13 04:09, Ogni-XR21 wrote:
I don't see where the problem is for you guys.

FT gets to nuke, AT gets to support. Finally a defined role for each tech-job.


IWANNA DOOZ HUUGE NUMBEHZZZ

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-13 08:29, Mystil wrote:
IWANNA DOOZ HUUGE NUMBEHZZZIWANNA BE ON PAR WITH MELEERS WHO ARE MUCH MORE DURABLE THAN I AM AND STILL BE VIABLE TO MY PARTY'S SUCCESS VIA SUPPORTTTTTTTT

[Zael]

On 2007-11-13 00:43, Mystil wrote:
Fortetecher has poor modifiers. Force is almost better than it...


But Force only has access to B rank weapons, and level 20 techs. Force isn't even close.

[Bloodhinge1]

acrotecher lvl 40 bufss are nice but ide much rather have someone in a party that is able to do mass damage along side me while providing resta and buffs occasionally. So no fortetechers live on.

[Zael]

On 2007-11-13 08:35, Bloodhinge1 wrote:
acrotecher lvl 40 bufss are nice but ide much rather have someone in a party that is able to do mass damage along side me while providing resta and buffs occasionally. So no fortetechers live on.


lol, AT melee does more damage than FT teching.

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-13 08:35, Bloodhinge1 wrote:
acrotecher lvl 40 bufss are nice but ide much rather have someone in a party that is able to do mass damage along side me while providing resta and buffs occasionally.Then... bring an Acrotecher? Their TP mod is very, very close to ours, and their melee outdamages our techs any day of the week, if they're geared well. Plus, they get access to S-rank whips, of which the Kubara 10* has on-hit Paralysis level 2, which is ridiculous.

Fortechers live on only by the mercy of their friends or the grudging acceptance of random groups who can't find anything better.

Edit: Sarnath'd. DAMNIT ZAEL http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_argh.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Remedy on 2007-11-13 08:40 ]</font>

[Pillan]

You do realize that AT’s TP mod is only close to fT’s when using Resta, right? Unless they changed spell growth, the extra 10 levels adds 10% element (totaling at 50% by 40) in addition to whatever growth you see. Then add in the ability to use rods, and you have an overall 18% damage advantage before considering the higher base TP and higher tech multipliers.

[CelestialBlade]

Nobody's going compare to melee DPS.

I thought we all accepted that a long time ago.

[Remedy]

I'm talking about their TP stat in general. Yes, they're going to do less damage (and less than the TP mod would bely) than we are, but it's not earth-shatteringly less... and they have way more melee potential for tech-resistant enemies than we do.

also, *sigh* at everyone beating off to elemental rods.

[Pillan]

I'm just saying if you really want to rival AT's melee with techs as an fT, I'd argue it's entirely possible if you get to your max tech potential as the AT in the video did with his melee potential.

[majan]

I'm positive that fortetechers will still be doing the best damage.why?it wouldnt make any sense for sega to have a class that totally outshines another in every single way shape and form.even though acrotecher is quite well endowed,I seriously doubt that they will outperform(technic-wise) a fortetecher.if I remember right,the stats between male newman acrotechers is about 200 or 220 TP...that is enough to make a small dent.also,factoring in lower level attack techs,taht also is a minus of roughly 20% of a technic multiplier,which with a lower base to work with,also will have quite an effect on the damage.I see acrotechers phasing out wartechers before they phase out the fortetechers.

why keep your wartecher when you can probably have a much funner time with your play style as an acrotecher?fortetechers on the other hand I see always having the elite hand in technic damage.but acrotecher and wartecher seem to have extremely similar play styles.

[Remedy]

...I am not trying to argue that they will out-damage us in Technics. I'm not that stupid nor that convinced of the horridness of Fortechers.

My argument is that Acrotechers will put out more damage in the same amount of time we will, all things being equal (level of equipment, level of PAs, buffs, etc). Every class will. And if we are poor for damage, and we are poor for support, then we are poor as a party member, because those are the only two things anyone can bring to a table.

I mean come on. Acrotecher even gets fucking traps. I want traps. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_cry.gif

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-13 08:50, majan wrote:
why keep your wartecher when you can probably have a much funner time with your play style as an acrotecher?


Wartecher gets much bigger numbers than Acrotecher, in addition to a wider variety of weapons that includes all of Acrotecher's weapons except machineguns and twin handguns. I have to agree with Soukosa when she said that AT is only good for support and the damage it did only seems like a lot now because we don't have the AoI updates. It's arguably the absolute lowest damage class in a party, only becoming worthwile due to it's dominance over 40 support.

So, yeah, my bet is that we'll see a lot of people switch from AT to another class once the hype of new classes is over because 90% of PSU players hate to sit back and support and would much rather get higher output.

[Remedy]

Edit: Crap, didn't think this one would go through. Server lag http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_argh.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Remedy on 2007-11-13 09:00 ]</font>

[ThEoRy]

Then go switch classes already and shut the fuck up. All you do is rag on fT. If you don't like it leave. Simple really.

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-13 08:56, Pillan wrote:
It's arguably the absolute lowest damage class in a party, only becoming worthwile due to it's dominance over 40 support.Irony alert: If you change the 40 to 30, you describe Fortechers today.

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-13 08:59, ThEoRy wrote:
Then go switch classes already and shut the fuck up. All you do is rag on fT. If you don't like it leave. Simple really.I've been a FOnewearl since Dreamcast V1. I've had to put up with FOmarls supporting better than us (sup 2x S/D range), EVERY FO class (and every HU and RA class) out-damaging us regardless of what we do in Ultimate since the resistances were SO FUCKING HIGH, our ridiculous frailty (sup Epsilons still being able to one-shot me with Rafoie at 150+, unless I totally geared for EFR), our inability to use Excalibur in PSO:BB (ONLY. FUCKING. CLASS. THAT. COULDN'T.), and now all the hell we're getting in PSU.

I've endured years of ST's bullshit against Forces and FOnewearls in particular. I'm not quitting any time soon. I'm not going to quit complaining, however, until things are fair, either.

[Finae]

Dun care, still gonna be a FT on my newman no matter what nubs say on boards and in game. Get bored of being FT, go back to being dd FF, get bored of that go to boring FG, get bored of that and can play Acropanzy (both Tech and fighter) on my beast. I've seen classes/races get the shaft in other games so this is no surprise to me. Oh and maybe I don't care because well, I have 4 characters deticated to the class they are specialized at.

Besides, those lvl 31 & 41+ techs look hawt, I must have them. And omg I am just not a fan of the weapon selection from the arcopanzy types http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif. Before any nub goes off on me about that (I won't name names), its a matter of personal preference. Give me some hard hitting facts on how a Arcopanzy can outdamage a FF with its weapon selection with some evidence and I will retire FF http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif. So I rather be on my FF as a beast with a slicer doing tons of damage than being Arcopanzy with cruddy weapon types http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif. That doesn't mean I won't try out the class though, but I will criticize the class like I do with every class in this game.

So don't care, atleast I don't have to worry about buffin nubs anymore. Resta/reverser maybe, but buffing now belongs to someone else. Every class has its advantages and disadvantages and its not like FT has 0 advantages and 3048034830 disadvantages. If that was the case, FT will be non-existant in AoI like the whole human race should of been at start of the game (since well, they suck, but oh wait I'm a human racist http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif). Once FT gets something special later on, everyone will be ranting and raving about how FT can do this and how all other classes suck, then Sega does the same thing for another class then the same thing happens again, and so on. It never ends haha and I get a kick out of it..

But once again, bicker and argue over w/e, you know nothing will get resolved haha. Just join the Arco revolution like 30483084304830840384038403 other people and shaddup http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.

[ThEoRy]

On 2007-11-13 08:53, Remedy wrote:
...I am not trying to argue that they will out-damage us in Technics. I'm not that stupid nor that convinced of the horridness of Fortechers.

My argument is that Acrotechers will put out more damage in the same amount of time we will,

WRONG they won't

all things being equal (level of equipment, level of PAs, buffs, etc). Every class will.

WRONG again

And if we are poor for damage, and we are poor for support, then we are poor as a party member, because those are the only two things anyone can bring to a table.

WRONG again this is your own shitty opinion of your self.


I mean come on. Acrotecher even gets fucking traps. I want traps. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_cry.gif

Then go switch classes already and stop raggin on fT.

[Broodstar1337]

I've got my base levels situated...

I'm ready to jump ship to AT.

[stukasa]

I just wanna play for fun, I don't really care who out-DPSes who. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_confused.gif

I may try out AT for fun at some point but I have no intention of staying one permanently. I can certainly sympathize with Remedy's desire to be useful, but I think there are plenty of ways for a fT to be useful, with or without an AT in the party. And to be honest, when I'm playing my non-FO alts, I could care less whether that Resta came from the AT with level 40 techs or the fT with level 30.

[ThEoRy]

On 2007-11-13 09:03, Remedy wrote:

On 2007-11-13 08:59, ThEoRy wrote:
Then go switch classes already and shut the fuck up. All you do is rag on fT. If you don't like it leave. Simple really.I've been a FOnewearl since Dreamcast V1. I've had to put up with FOmarls supporting better than us (sup 2x S/D range), EVERY FO class (and every HU and RA class) out-damaging us regardless of what we do in Ultimate since the resistances were SO FUCKING HIGH, our ridiculous frailty (sup Epsilons still being able to one-shot me with Rafoie at 150+, unless I totally geared for EFR), our inability to use Excalibur in PSO:BB (ONLY. FUCKING. CLASS. THAT. COULDN'T.), and now all the hell we're getting in PSU.

I've endured years of ST's bullshit against Forces and FOnewearls in particular. I'm not quitting any time soon. I'm not going to quit complaining, however, until things are fair, either.



Yeah and I've been a FOnewm since DCv1. But unlike you Remedy I've ENJOYED my class! A wise man once told me that if you don't like your job at least 85% of the time then it's time to move on.

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-13 09:05, ThEoRy wrote:
WRONG they won't

You did see the video that was posted of the AT melee damage, right? That video was slower than realtime due to FRAPS lag. They WILL out-DPS us, guarantee it.


On 2007-11-13 09:05, ThEoRy wrote:
WRONG again

With the prevalence of 30% and higher weapons come AotI, yes, they will. 40-ish percent Buccaneers only sell for like... 2 million on JP PSU? (although they won't be that low on US PSU, our economy sucks balls)


On 2007-11-13 09:05, ThEoRy wrote:
WRONG again this is your own shitty opinion of your self.

No, it's factual analysis, given what I know about the mechanics of the game, the way that ATP/TP relates to damage, the way elemental percents work, and *gasp* real experience from people who play PSU JP (which is, other than the shitty community and fucked-up economy, the same game).


On 2007-11-13 09:05, ThEoRy wrote:
Then go switch classes already and stop raggin on fT.I've been playing a Force probably as long, if not longer, than you have. I have no intention of leaving the Fortecher class. I will, however, proudly lament its woes, regardless of what trolling I have to put up with for it.

Edit/Quote:
On 2007-11-13 09:08, ThEoRy wrote:
Yeah and I've been a FOnewm since DCv1. But unlike you Remedy I've ENJOYED my class! A wise man once told me that if you don't like your job at least 85% of the time then it's time to move on.I have enjoyed my career as a FOnewearl very much. That doesn't mean that I get bitter when ST is blatantly biased against us, and does everything they can to make us one of the weakest classes in the game. I enjoy being a Fortecher. I love the sound of a crackling Gizonde raining down over my head. I love the silent appreciation that I get from my fellow teammates when I heal them, Reverser them, and the like. I love the electric jolt I get every time I fall into a chain of blocks, firing off techs in rapid-speed due to the way we work. I love the class dearly - THAT is the source of my fury and my bravado. If I didn't love the class as much as I did, I wouldn't complain anywhere near as loudly - I'd, as you requested, shut up and move on.

We're on the same page. I'm just willing to fight for us to get more. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Remedy on 2007-11-13 09:17 ]</font>

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-13 09:00, Remedy wrote:
Irony alert: If you change the 40 to 30, you describe Fortechers today.


The main difference is that fT can shift from lowest damage to highest damage just by being placed in ideal situations (i.e., no hunters tossing enemies around).


But, yeah, I'd agree that they should have a huge buff to all short range techs and bullets, to make them on-par with the melee advantage, along with a 15-20% buff to all bullets and techs and a nerf to slicers so they never have an ATP mod higher than Barta's and/or max at 70% accuracy. That way the difference between hunters and everything else wouldn't be so vast, nor so blatently overpowered.

Melee deserves an advantage, but not a 2x damage advantage.

[ThEoRy]

Hey Remedy read my signature. I highly doubt you have been playing longer or have more EXP than me. And I do understand the source of your frustration, but you have to realize that your constant grieving is the source of my frustration. lol We're supposed to be on the same team here. And all I'm sayin is let's just stick this out and see how it goes. Do you not think a lvl200 fT20 will be doing huge numbers? I'm pretty sure we will. fT will not be a bottom tier class I can guarantee you that. So let's all just sit back and watch our powers GROW which I assure you they will.

[Remedy]

Your sig would infer that you hit 200 in PSO not once, and not three times like I did, but 17 times. I mean, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

That aside, I don't see why I cause frustration for you. How many downtrodden groups actually get mad at their boisterous, outspoken figurehead? I'd make an analogy, but it would probably get me modded due to the fact that it could be construed wrong... but you get my point. I'm never content to sit back and watch. If I see something that I think is wrong, I step up and say "Hey, this is fucked, how are you going to fix it?"

That's how I roll. *shrug*

[Guildenstern]

On 2007-11-13 09:03, Remedy wrote:
I've been a FOnewearl since Dreamcast V1. I've had to put up with FOmarls supporting better than us (sup 2x S/D range), EVERY FO class (and every HU and RA class) out-damaging us regardless of what we do in Ultimate since the resistances were SO FUCKING HIGH, our ridiculous frailty (sup Epsilons still being able to one-shot me with Rafoie at 150+, unless I totally geared for EFR), our inability to use Excalibur in PSO:BB (ONLY. FUCKING. CLASS. THAT. COULDN'T.), and now all the hell we're getting in PSU.

I've endured years of ST's bullshit against Forces and FOnewearls in particular. I'm not quitting any time soon. I'm not going to quit complaining, however, until things are fair, either.

...Wow. Now I see why people warned me about reading your posts.

I'm afraid nobody really cares about your PSO issues, as we don't play PSO and I'm sure a good portion of us newbies could really give a damn about PSO either in general or in specific.

While certainly I'm sure you feel you have a good and noble cause at heart in your unceasing complaining and whinging I feel quite certain that a good majority of this thread would prefer it if you'd direct it towards the guilty party in question-- I.E. Sega's email address-- while the thread constructively discusses the state of class flux and FT in the present and in future in AOI in PSU, not PSO.

The internets does not have such poor memory that it requires constant unrelenting repetition of your grievances in every thread where it might possibly be relevant to insert them, and about 40% of threads where it's not relevant.

Thank you for your kind attention to this matter.

...Sometimes I honestly think new people will learn to play and enjoy PSU better if they never read these forums at all. Christ.

[ThEoRy]

Well Rem, can I call ya that? Rem? I like the sound of that. Well Rem, let's see... I've been playing Phantasy star for the better part of twenty years now. Twenty. Having played through PS's 1 through 4 several times a piece before even getting to PSO DC, where I then Maxed out 4 classes before my DC blew up. Then because of the whole serial # lock out nonsense I had to buy a new DC and start all over and max out 4 again. Then came PSO Xbox, where I then maxed out 3 classes. And now here we are on PSU where I'm focused entirely on 1 class, my true love in my heart of hearts, forteTecher.

It's not just a game you see, fT has been a part of me for 2/3 of my life now. It truly is a part of me which makes me who I am. So when I hear you constantly bashing the class, in actuality it's as if you're bashing me and my way of life. Which you are. So how can one not be offended when someone else trash talks their race/career/abilities?

A true leader is an optimist, not a pessimist. Did Optimus Prime say, "Aw man this sux, Autobots aren't as strong as Decepticons, we'll never defeat Megatron." ?
Did Martin Luther King say, "Aw man this sux, we're not as strong as white people we'll never get anywhere in this world" ?
If you wanna be a true leader stop raggin your own people and start defending them. I'm a fT at heart till the day I die. No amount of grieving complaining or insulting is gonna change what's about to happen. In order to survive you have to adapt to your new surroundings. It's survival of the fitest. Either adjust and adapt, or go the way of the dinosaur..

[amtalx]

On 2007-11-13 10:34, ThEoRy wrote:
I've been playing Phantasy star for the better part of twenty years now. Twenty. Having played through PS's 1 through 4 several times a piece before even getting to PSO DC, where I then Maxed out 4 classes before my DC blew up. Then because of the whole serial # lock out nonsense I had to buy a new DC and start all over and max out 4 again. Then came PSO Xbox, where I then maxed out 3 classes. And now here we are on PSU where I'm focused entirely on 1 class, my true love in my heart of hearts, forteTecher.


*claps*

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-13 10:34, ThEoRy wrote:
A true leader is an optimist, not a pessimist. Did Optimus Prime say, "Aw man this sux, Autobots aren't as strong as Decepticons, we'll never defeat Megatron." ?


Optimus Prime is a pretty bad example of a leader. His idiocy and hopeless humanitarianism lead to confusion among the ranks, the death of countless soldiers, and his own demise at the hands of his nemesis. He also continued to lead the Autobots down the path of destruction by passing leadership to a coward named Ultra Magnus and a incompetent kid named Hot Rod.

If you want to see a great example of a leader with great organization who managed to pull his team together, despite all odds, you really have to look at the badguys. Megatron and Cobra Commander are great examples of this.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-11-13 10:53 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-11-13 10:25, Guildenstern wrote:
...Sometimes I honestly think new people will learn to play and enjoy PSU better if they never read these forums at all. Christ.


I always think this.

[imfanboy]

On 2007-11-13 10:47, Pillan wrote:
If you want to see a great example of a leader with great organization who managed to pull his team together, despite all odds, you really have to look at the badguys. Megatron and Cobra Commander are great examples of this.


I smiled. And I'm going to steal this quote, Pillan, to use elsewhere. For sure.

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-13 10:34, ThEoRy wrote:
Well Rem, can I call ya that? Rem?Sure. Most of my friends already do, hah.

As towards the rest of your post, I never played anything but FOnewearl, so I guess my total XP measure can't compare to yours, but then, there was so much XP that probably went wasted. Oh well. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

As for optimism... My optimism towards ST actually giving us a fair shake died in PSO:BB when Episode 4 was more of the same (other than lizards. I love megid bowling with lizards) as PSO Ep 1/2 was. I guess I just get bitter too easily. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif I will adapt to what FT is becoming, and I'll keep playing it because, god damnit, just like you, it's what I've been doing for ages. (Not nearly as long as you - only PS game I ever played on its "original" console was PS4)

[ThEoRy]

On 2007-11-13 10:47, Pillan wrote:

On 2007-11-13 10:34, ThEoRy wrote:
A true leader is an optimist, not a pessimist. Did Optimus Prime say, "Aw man this sux, Autobots aren't as strong as Decepticons, we'll never defeat Megatron." ?


Optimus Prime is a pretty bad example of a leader. His idiocy and hopeless humanitarianism lead to confusion among the ranks, the death of countless soldiers, and his own demise at the hands of his nemesis. He also continued to lead the Autobots down the path of destruction by passing leadership to a coward named Ultra Magnus and a incompetent kid named Hot Rod.

If you want to see a great example of a leader with great organization who managed to pull his team together, despite all odds, you really have to look at the badguys. Megatron and Cobra Commander are great examples of this.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-11-13 10:53 ]</font>

That's funny because I don't remember Megatron or Cobra Commander succeeding in even one of their schemes.....Also Megatron died in the Battle with Prime as well AND was thrown of the ship on the way to Cybertron by his own troops! Only later to be born again as Galvitron by Unicron. Now I'm not saying Megatron was a bad leader. In fact he worked his way up the ranks from a lowly soldier to the most powerful Decepticon of all. I even named my first FOnewm NovaMegatron! So insert his name where I used Prime's earlier if you wish, my point remains the same.

[-Ryuki-]

Bumblebee, beeyotch.

[Kylie]

I really am having a hard time seeing forces as dead on PSU. I think all that they have done will help the other classes being on par with each other, not to mention a lot of you are passing judgment without even playing the expansion. So I'll wait to say for sure whether or not I think it's "fair," but I've not seen much to fuss about from what I've seen so far.

[Ryna]

This topic has reached the end of its useful life.

[Ryoki]

I just think AT gets too many S ranks.

I really would like an S rank crossbow or handgun as a Fighgunner, but AT gets an S rank in so many things...

Maybe they should just tone down slicers, etc...

Or get rid of AT's crazy palette choices.

Other than that, I couldn't care less.

[Ryna]

This topic has reached the end of its useful life.