AotI: Acrofighter: what is the best race based on stats alon

[AlphaMinotaux]

Been trying to gather info before the game actually came out but my inability to read japanese keeps me from looking at the jp wiki.

Can anyone list the male stats for max lvl acrofighters based on race.

Currently I have a cast which I plan to make an acrofighter but I keep reading casts aren't such great acrofighters. Am i just being misinformed or is this true? Would making a new human character be in my best interest since the 1up cup is still up and running.

Thanks for any replies.

[pikachief]

i believe humans get a bonus on them, and humans are also second bests for spells and aren't too bad with guns and sabers! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Starrz]

Beast

[Pillan]

Human gets a huge bonus, but Casts still have more ATP and ATA, so it’s still more damage/time. And, with a Shadoog, I’ve estimated a Cast will have exactly the same output as a human of the same gender. The only real drawback is that the human bonus makes their stats high enough that Casts will die one hit faster than humans.

So it’s a little extra damage for 1 hit faster death. Don’t worry too much about Casts being a bad choice.

[-Tidus_415-]

Got this from the JP PSU Wiki

Races at Lv110 with Acrofighter LV15

http://i18.tinypic.com/6sjupsi.jpg

Top row is
Human | Newman | Cast | Beast
Then its Male | Female below it

Left row is (from top to bottom)
HP - ATP - ATA - TP - DFP - EVP - MST - STA

[pikachief]

On 2007-11-13 21:35, Pillan wrote:
Human gets a huge bonus, but Casts still have more ATP and ATA, so it’s still more damage/time. And, with a Shadoog, I’ve estimated a Cast will have exactly the same output as a human of the same gender. The only real drawback is that the human bonus makes their stats high enough that Casts will die one hit faster than humans.

So it’s a little extra damage for 1 hit faster death. Don’t worry too much about Casts being a bad choice.



oh FIGHTER? i thought u all said TECHER XD

also shadoogs run on TP, its the worst out of all the acrofighter weapons for a cast to use http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Shou]

Females have more Stamina? lol

Thanks, the stats are amazing! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-13 21:46, pikachief wrote:
also shadoogs run on TP, its the worst out of all the acrofighter weapons for a cast to use http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


It is, but it's also free damage used to complement melee damage. My point in the earlier statement is the damage they lose from lower TP on the Shadoog they gain from higher ATP on whatever melee weapon their holding since a Shadoog is so slow compared to a skill.

[pikachief]

On 2007-11-13 21:49, Pillan wrote:

On 2007-11-13 21:46, pikachief wrote:
also shadoogs run on TP, its the worst out of all the acrofighter weapons for a cast to use http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


It is, but it's also free damage used to complement melee damage. My point in the earlier statement is the damage they lose from lower TP on the Shadoog they gain from higher ATP on whatever melee weapon their holding since a Shadoog is so slow compared to a skill.



ahhh yes thatn is true...

I personally dont like it cuz i like to go AFK in low level rooms and let my shadoog kill everything! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[physic]

human male has more atp than cast female, its not a certain thing that cast is best.

[xJermariox]

Looking at the charts.. A cast doesnt have that much ATP compared to a human.. Your Cast probably will be doing maybe 20ish more damage compared to a human and a human has like what 600 more TP? The only advantage i see in being a Cast-Acrofighter is the SUV.. thats the only thing they really havent against humans.

And ATA is a joke in this game..

Correct me if im wrong, but with the 5% boost humans are getting which each level gained wont they slowly catch up to a CAST in all stats?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: xJermariox on 2007-11-13 21:57 ]</font>

[AlphaMinotaux]

can the +42atp +53ata (cast) = +657tp (human) That number just seems so huge XD



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AlphaMinotaux on 2007-11-13 21:55 ]</font>

[Carlo210]

And CASTs are the rulers of the Universe.

[Pillan]

Remember Shadoogs only fire 3 shots once every 3 seconds and they have no PAs, while skills attack 2 targets twice per second at the slowest and are further multiplied by Just Attack. Between all that, the ATP difference becomes equal to the TP difference.

That and the TP difference is meaningless if you're not equipping a Shadoog.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-11-13 22:04 ]</font>

[pikachief]

On 2007-11-13 22:01, Pillan wrote:
Remember Shadoogs only fire 3 shots once every 3 seconds and they have no PAs, while skills attack 2 targets twice per second and are further multiplied by Just Attack. Between all that, the ATP difference becomes equal to the TP difference.



no some only shoot 1 and some only shoot 2.

the one that shoots 3 is a special kubara one.

[Pillan]

According to the JP wiki, all A ranks shoot 3. Anyway, if they shoot less than that, Casts have a damage advantage by the time your skills get to the 30-40 range.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-11-13 21:34, Starrz wrote:
Beast

Yep.

The posted stats should make this painfully clear.

[Carlo210]

That 50 atp difference becomes 180 when using the slicer PA.
Even so, it's not a big deal. I'm not gonna reroll a human, even if they had better atp than a cast acrofighter. Plus, barely anyone is gonna see the damage a shadoog is doing anyways.

[xJermariox]

^ I will when im soloing http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[AlphaMinotaux]

doesn't evasion play a much larger role now since parries = counters?

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-11-13 22:23, AlphaMinotaux wrote:
doesn't evasion play a much larger role now since parries = counters?

Not really, since JA does the same thing.

[xJermariox]

Cant JA if you are on the ground though >_>.. And i always forget about the counter thing. So yeah more EVP = more counters and less time flinching, falling and w/e when you get hit.

Woot 100 posts and ive been here over four years @_@

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: xJermariox on 2007-11-13 22:32 ]</font>

[Pillan]

If you get hit enough to make a human or Newman outdamage you, you suck as a hunter. Period.

[mizukage]

Based on stats alone, I'd say either a Human, a CAST, or a Beast. CASTs get SUVs, while Beasts get Nanoblasts. Unless Human will end up getting Photon Blasts, it isn't the best race made for the license, Acrofighter.

[Clover]

On 2007-11-13 22:09, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:

On 2007-11-13 21:34, Starrz wrote:
Beast

Yep.

The posted stats should make this painfully clear.

Going to have to agree.

[Soukosa]

Stat wise, human is the best. It has the most well rounded amounts in the stats that matter the most (including EVP which the job was intended to work with). Alot of you also seem to be forgetting that the elemental system changes were put in to put more emphasis on the weapon instead of the elemental mod and base stats.

In the end though, it comes down to what you're playing style is. Even then, the difference in stats between the races will likely end up not meaning much in the long run. In alot of cases, race is more of just how you want your character to look.



On 2007-11-13 22:01, Pillan wrote:
Remember Shadoogs only fire 3 shots once every 3 seconds

Never seen an S grade one have you? Penetrating beam like a laser cannon and they fire rather frequently. You know when someone has one equipped in a party because there's almost constant beams firing every where.



That and the TP difference is meaningless if you're not equipping a Shadoog.

And if you're not using a shadoog why are you playing an AF to begin with? I think it was established long ago by those that played AF that shadoogs are extermely helpful to the job type and very under rated. Maybe if you ever get off of your "zomg! cast r teh best!!" mindset you can actually see what a job type like this is capable off -_-;

[Hank]

I would think that everyone will use a slicer to begin with. And since Slicers are 1h weapons, everyone's gonna be using a shadoog to boot. I guess we'll just have to see exactly how effective these shadoogs are going to be. Other than that, humans are definately looking better as Acrofighters, which personally is a relief to me. FINALLY something humans are good at.

[drizzle]

Only a little lower ATP and a hueg TP difference when looking at human vs beast, if shadoogs are only half decent then human looks like the clear winner here.

Human Supremacy, and all that http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-14 00:48, Soukosa wrote:
Alot of you also seem to be forgetting that the elemental system changes were put in to put more emphasis on the weapon instead of the elemental mod and base stats.


I could have sworn ST said they were changing the system to emphasize base stats rather than weapon and element stats. And that becomes a lot more apparent with the ATP stat on every hunter class rivaling that of an axe. But, still, that deviation is multiplied by the PA mod and something between 1.1 and 1.38 for the element mod and then another 1.5 for the Just Attack mod, so arguing that any race can do anything to make up for their lack of ATP on a hunter class is kind of futile. Especially not one with an overkill ATA mod like AF.


On 2007-11-14 00:48, Soukosa wrote:
Never seen an S grade one have you? Penetrating beam like a laser cannon and they fire rather frequently. You know when someone has one equipped in a party because there's almost constant beams firing every where.


Unfortunately, I trust the JP Wiki slightly more than that statement. Also I’m still a bit concerned about how efficient an automated laser cannon would be. I mean, the main reason lasers don’t suck is because we can aim them and insure that the bullet hits more than 3 mobs.


On 2007-11-14 00:48, Soukosa wrote:
And if you're not using a shadoog why are you playing an AF to begin with? I think it was established long ago by those that played AF that shadoogs are extermely helpful to the job type and very under rated. Maybe if you ever get off of your "zomg! cast r teh best!!" mindset you can actually see what a job type like this is capable off -_-;


You’d be using a 2 hand PA with a ridiculous mod, like Ick Hick, or using a card to take care of a flying mob. You know, the same reasons anyone has for doing anything outside of the norm on PSU.

[Starrz]

Yeah because between 1600 TP and 1150 TP, it's going to make your shadoogs be a powerhouse, as that's what they're known for. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

Beasts have over 200 more HP and over 100 more ATP. Then they have nanoblasts which shit all over the TP from humans.

Maybe if the shadoogs do like 300 more damage between human -> beast, i'll say they might be a shot at being best. Until then, Beast > *

[drizzle]

I did add the condition that shadoogs have to be half decent http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
+1 STA bonus for human female is pretty hot too.

We'll see for ourselves next week!


By the way, the differences between male and female are starting to get a lot more significant too http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[SolomonGrundy]

If you get hit enough to make a human or Newman outdamage you, you suck as a hunter. Period.

are we comparing AF to AT with this statement? If that's the case then I beg to differ. The humans and newmans will block more. Depending on what hits you (say, a distova, with a charge), then that one hit - the one that got EVP blocked by the human/newman AF leaves the Cast in the dust.

MANY MANY MANY enemies have these types of blow away hits. Not to mention other enemies with stun or otherwise disable your attacks. Over the course of a run this makes big impact.

+250 EVP is nothing to scoff at.

Giga Skill save is a must for this class though. Cards have tons of PP, as do twin handguns.

[Ceresa]

#s

Human F AF 110/15
Base TP 1659
290TP from S-rank shadoog
38% light
Megistalide
Dmg=565-575
(with 280 more from sori techcharge its 648-679)

Cast M AF 97/5
779/879*TP (base is 779TP, a 110/15 would be 946TP so I used a tei/forceS for 100 more TP here to get it slightly closer, though it's still off somewhat obviously...)
290TP from S-rank shadoog
38% light
Megistalide
Dmg=333-345

Well 200 more damage per shot, per enemy with the Laser piercing shadoog. Of course while other people might try to blow smoke up your ass about "playing effectively" and "n00b" and all that bullshit, the truth is the aiming AI is a fucking retard, and unless you're using De Ragan safespots, you're only going to hit 2 at best in most cases, mostly one or none. The beam is narrow, it frequently aims diagonally downwards to where the enemy was standing making for one hell of a sucky penetration, better hope something else runs in front i guess. The more effort you put into aiming it to make it useful, the more your slicer damage falls. Not sure I want to trade 3000 for 500...

So what's that mean for AF? Well when you roll into a room and stuff spawns across the way and you butcher them all for 3k x 3 with your slicer combo, the one that the shadoog AI aims at is gonna die first. Assuming you need a 4th hit, and on 110 monsters you sometimes do, they will all die on the next slicer hit, together, making that shadoog killing one early...redundant.

So S Laser Shadoogs suck...that leaves A rank shadoogs. These are better, since I previously stated lasers mostly only hit one target, you might as well hit that target 3x. I don't have exact comparison #s, but I do around 550x 3 on 105olgohmons with a 38% fire on my Human. Again though, if you're massacreing with slicers...they tend to be unnecessary. I find their best use is paired with a saber and rising/spinning Strike against big things so I can set them on fire while doing melee damage.

Well since the best use of Shadoogs is burn lvl 3, and TP doesn't help that...the best choice is...well...it's not that simple...

The bullet points for each race
Human: Female only, 15sta, with a Hard stamina I am immune to deljaban megid, and seemingly jusnagen, 6 lvls(104-110) of hive and it's yet to kill me, not like I'm trying to dodge either...also very competitive ATP to cast

Cast: SUV gauge charge is unbelievably fast.

Beast: Nanoblast...but! You can't heal during nano and I find it inferior and a hassle compared to slicer damage anyways lol, at least SUV frontloads its power and then you're back to slicer.

Newman: None, go lvl your buffs.

So there you have it, Human Female or Cast or beast if you have one leveled. Newman is the only one that's really bad at it...

[Shiro_Ryuu]

IMO CASTs seem to be gimped Beasts, Beasts beat CAST in all of the important stats for Acrofighter. As for the nanoblast, well, its not like anyone's forcing you to do it. I'd figure Newmans would be number 2 since they make the most of the evasion and the shadoog use, and at the same time, they're better able to keep up with a Beast's ATP than a CAST is of keeping up with a Newman's TP. I figured that if Humans were the best due to them having the best balance of ATP, TP, and EVP, then Newmans would be #2 since they have the 2nd best balance of the stats, but then again, the SUVs and Nanoblasts kind of ruin things.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2007-11-14 05:32 ]</font>

[Neith]

On 2007-11-14 02:36, Ceresa wrote:
Newman: None, go lvl your buffs.


Oh please. High EVP, combined wth Tenora armour, with Just Counter should make Newman a viable choice. Yes, every race will outdamage a Newman aF, but the ATP is still high. Looking at the stats, they definately don't suck. I'll get back to you when I go Newman Female aF, but I can't see a problem whatsoever. Just because a Newman will have lower ATP/HP than other races doesn't automatically make them suck.

Also, the stat boosts to characters and the addition of Just Attack will provide assistance to the ATP 'problem' anyway.

You seem to base 99% of that post on spamming the Slicer PA anyway, which gets nerfed a bit in a future update. When did aF's weapon selection change to 'S-Rank Slicer, and nothing else?'

Having said that, most people say Newman can't be a Fighgunner or Fortefighter either, and they're wrong as well. If you have any amount of skill, you can play any class well. The only time a 'gimped' race/class combo will be a let-down is in timed missions, such as 1up Cup's EX missions. Otherwise, you're still adding significant damage. If Kamica's Newman aT can hit four-figure damage easily, a Newman aF is going to hit hard too.

I know you play JP AoI, so you no doubt have experience with the class, but I hate it when people start getting obsessed with stats, and class any combination that isn't optimal as useless.

Perhaps all the Chikki Kyoren-jin spammers will ease off and realise aF has other weapons once the nerf kicks in.

[Starrz]

Uriko, you're mistaking "Worst at the class" with "Sucks at it."

[Neith]

On 2007-11-14 07:38, Starrz wrote:
Uriko, you're mistaking "Worst at the class" with "Sucks at it."



Ceresa actually said 'Newman is the only one that's really bad at it'. If someone could point out why Newman is really bad at aF, please tell me. If it's for the same reason they 'suck' as Fortefighters, then it's minor.

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-14 01:33, SolomonGrundy wrote:

If you get hit enough to make a human or Newman outdamage you, you suck as a hunter. Period.

are we comparing AF to AT with this statement? If that's the case then I beg to differ. The humans and newmans will block more. Depending on what hits you (say, a distova, with a charge), then that one hit - the one that got EVP blocked by the human/newman AF leaves the Cast in the dust.


Blocking less is one thing. Getting hit so much that the fact that you block less lowers your damage/time below that of another race is a totally different one.

Not to mention that most attacks that can toss you around have lower ATA (only example I can think of a high accuracy blow away is the Deljaban slam), so the EVP advantage decreases when you really need it.

Also don't forget how EVP works compared to ATA. Remember than 1 ATA averages out to about 5 EVP if you want to make a linear comparison. ATA is worth more when it's less than .2x EVP and less when it's above and EVP is worth more when it's less than 5x ATA and less when it's above.



On 2007-11-14 07:45, UrikoBB3 wrote:
Ceresa actually said 'Newman is the only one that's really bad at it'. If someone could point out why Newman is really bad at aF, please tell me. If it's for the same reason they 'suck' as Fortefighters, then it's minor.


Less ATP than anyone else, their higher EVP doesn't make up for any of the other races DFP+HP since the class itself is high in all 3, their TP doesn't help because Shadoogs don't have PAs nor a fast firing rate. All that makes it pretty easy to argue they're the worst off. I wouldn't say suck and I doubt Ceresa meant anything other than that it was easy to argue they are worse off than everyone else.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-11-14 08:04 ]</font>

[Finae]

Uriko, you will probably outdamage most of the nublets on the server who will be AF anyways so what does it matter what one person says or infact anyone? Its pretty sad when my newman FF is actually the main damage dealer in 1 up missions and somehow we complete even the ex also lolol. I'm going to see the same thing in AoI when I lvl these classes for fun on my newman. I say about 5% in game will actually give a damn about if you're a newman AF and start comparing stats like people are doing here lol.

But here is the thing, you get someone who is just as geared up (l33t) + lvled up + same class + etc as you and they'll prolly make you cry. I know I make Humans/Newman FFs cry when I'm on my beast FF buhahaha.

Beast supremacy! Nuff said.

[Ceresa]

I really don't care if people play newman AF, I don't care if you can make it work. The topic was about which race is the best for AF, newman isn't, that's all. The buff thing was not an invitation for a newman pride rally, it was a joke. Laugh once in a while. Or don't and die at 30 from stress.

And there really is no reason to not spam slicer as an AF, they don't have Majarra or Jabroga or Absolute Dance, 99% of the time is a bit much, but against small to medium sized mobs, it's the best choice by a mile, before and after nerf. Except for like Olgohmon and Gaozoran(unless you abuse terrain, slicer goes through walls and ground). Against large melee resistant stuff like Jarba it's not so hot, although if there's 2+ of them it's a fair choice after burn trapG, otherwise saber. Cross Hurricane or whatever on the bosses. So it's more like 97% of the time you see.

You don't have to spam slicer but I'm not particularly thrilled about AF weapon selection for an alternative to spam, if you just want to use slicers sparingly then you're better off to just stay as FF or PhiG, because frankly, the only thing AF has going for it is S shadoogs (lol) + S slicers and ata. The others have the same weapon access + spear/sword/axeordbl + better atp and the other perks.

[Neith]

On 2007-11-14 10:28, Ceresa wrote:
I really don't care if people play newman AF, I don't care if you can make it work. The topic was about which race is the best for AF, newman isn't, that's all. The buff thing was not an invitation for a newman pride rally, it was a joke. Laugh once in a while. Or don't and die at 30 from stress.

Eh, I guess I'm just so sick of the topics saying Newman can't do anything but Fortetecher. Nothing to do with Newman pride, it just seems like every time the words 'melee' and 'Newman' are used in the same thread, people start slating them. The fact is, most of them haven't even tried it out.


And there really is no reason to not spam slicer as an AF, they don't have Majarra or Jabroga or Absolute Dance, 99% of the time is a bit much, but against small to medium sized mobs, it's the best choice by a mile, before and after nerf.

aF does have access to a lot of good all-round PA's though, even with a limited weapon selection. Buku Saien-zan, Spinning Strike, Rising Crush, Renkai Buyou-zan (as much as I hate it), coupled with support PA's like Twin Mayalee, Rising Strike etc.

I think there's more than enough potential there, without having to resort to a slicer most of the time. Admittedly, it is one of aF's main weapons, being a new one, and the only class to get S-Rank in it, and with Chiki being as broken as it sounds, I have no doubt you could get away with spamming it almost exclusively. I just prefer to vary my options, and not rely on 1 weapon unless there's a need to (see 1Up Cup EX missions and Dus Majarra).

Edit: Finae, I have a Lv100 Beast fF. The damage output is nice, but the ATA can hurt sometimes (Colony EX showed me this, I saw a lot of 0's popping up against Deljabans). It doesn't look as if aF will have the same problem, seeing as its effectively part Gunner.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: UrikoBB3 on 2007-11-14 10:58 ]</font>

[Jaspaller]

That beast ATA is absolutely HORRID. Good luck hitting anything with that. I'd rather be hitting something than nothing.

[MUDGRIP]

excuse me?

[Jaspaller]

On 2007-11-14 11:13, MUDGRIP wrote:
excuse me?




1337 H4X0R wrote
That beast ATA is absolutely HORRID. Good luck hitting anything with that. I'd rather be hitting something than nothing.

[Sasamichan]

Is there a reason why AF has a high TP mod?

[Anduril]

On 2007-11-14 11:20, Sasamichan wrote:
Is there a reason why AF has a high TP mod?

Shadoog proficiency? Since they can them as S rank.

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-14 11:03, Jaspaller wrote:
That beast ATA is absolutely HORRID. Good luck hitting anything with that. I'd rather be hitting something than nothing.


You do realize that's around 40% more ATA than Beast fF's have right now, and when do you hear them complaining about low ATA?

The secret is most melee weapons double Beast ATA and then they average at an 85% skill accuracy mod. On top of that AF has 30% more base accuracy than fF and skills gain another 10% accuracy from 31-40. So it really makes Cast accuracy look like overkill on any hunter class until you fight an Svaltus.

Of course weapons like double sabers, axes, swords, and possibly slicers after the ATA nerf stress the importance of extra accuracy, but that still leaves Beasts with the other 8.

[Jaspaller]

They've still got some terrible accuracy. -100 when compared to Humans, and -150 when compared to casts. On top of that there's also those situations where you run into monsters with high evp up the ass.

I'll hold further judgement for when I actually play the class/race combo but still... that ATA is absolutely terrible when compared to other characters.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jaspaller on 2007-11-14 12:12 ]</font>

[AlphaMinotaux]

KEEP ON TOPIC WITHOUT FLAMING PLEASE.

http://img39.picoodle.com/img/img39/5/11/14/f_perfectmatcm_c652bd8.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/5/11/14/f_perfectmatcm_c652bd8.jpg&srv=img39)

[Kimil]

Let's see....

For pure DPS, Beast will always win at a class that doesn't use attack techs for it means of attack.

Therefore, DPS -> Beast

Humans though have very good stats in this class. Since this class actually uses every stat for something ( ie: TP for Shadoogs ), Humans work very good with this class, though their DPS will always fall behind Beast.

Newmans can excel with just counter because of their high EVA (and AF's stat boost makes this ridiculously high ). And of course Newmans are best suited for the Shadoogs, problem is this weapon cannot be leaned on as the main course of damage. Newmans will always fall short in melee because of their low DEF, HP and ATP.

Casts... for once I think this is a melee class that Humans are better suited for. Casts fail to utilize the Shadoogs, and AF's high Evade and good MST. while their Def is high, the human class boost brings them REALLY close to Cast DEF.

In summery

DPS:
Beast
Cast

Utilizing defencive stats:
Human

Utilizing Shadoogs:
Newmans
Humans

Best over all:
Humans

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-14 12:02, Jaspaller wrote:
They've still got some terrible accuracy. -100 when compared to Humans, and -150 when compared to casts. On top of that there's also those situations where you run into monsters with high evp up the ass.


The -150 accuracy from Beast to Cast usually ends up being a -1-3% hit rate because of the way the accuracy equations work once you add in the weapon and PA mods right now (aside from with weapons I named before or with an ATA mod less than 80%). The problem is that the accuracy and evasion equations are nonlinear and your accuracy is so high already that you're hitting enemies 80-85% of the time, so all you can really do is add an extra 15% with infinite ATA. So it takes like 100 ATA for you to see a difference in general and, even then, you have to count for like a run.

Of course you're right about the high EVP thing. If you're fighting Mizuri, Svaltus, Deljaban, BUGs or anything else with high EVP I can't think of, the deviation increases and you see other cases of Cast ATA > Beast ATP.

But feel free to test it for yourself if you don't believe me.

[Carlo210]

So could someone explain this slicer nerf? Does it decrease the ATP or ATA and by how much (and is it for PAs only? or the actual weapon?)
Much appreciated.

[MUDGRIP]

id rather hit something for crazy damage...and get an occasional miss because ata in this game is broke no matter what character you are...oh btw jaspaller good luck in PvP...nice skull btw as well.

[Jaspaller]

Fire up your xbox, we'll clash skulls head to head in halo 2 MLG lockout bitch!

[Starrz]

I don't know why it's so surprising for people to accept the fact that ATA is really useless. It's not like we haven't heard of other stats that are useless even though huge gaps between classes (DFP and MST, for instance)

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-14 13:23, Carlo210 wrote:
So could someone explain this slicer nerf? Does it decrease the ATP or ATA and by how much (and is it for PAs only? or the actual weapon?)
Much appreciated.


According to link posted in the Christmas update thread, the ATP of the first slicer art is being decreased by 20% (so from 360% to around 290% at level 40) and the base ATA and PP recovery are being decreased on slicers themselves. No details were given on the PP efficiency and ATA changes and I believe it says the PP change only effects A rank slicers.


As far as useless stats, I’d argue we only have overrated and underrated stats. I mean, ATA does a lot but the change in the number of zeroes is so small that most people won’t notice it, yet the change in damage/time can push a lower damage value race or class (i.e., Casts) above a higher damage value one (i.e., Beasts). A 5% hit rate increase guarantees that a Cast will out damage a Beast and you can get it with most guns and a few melee weapons. On the other hand, a Beast will out damage a Cast on the exact opposite end with a few guns and most melee weapons.

I mean, it’s simple balancing. How could Beasts be the best hunters if accuracy had a huge effect when that is exactly what they were designed to be? And how could Casts be the best rangers if accuracy had no effect at all? All you have to do is make rangers accuracy dependent by giving them a ridiculous base ATA mod and then have the weapons add nearly nothing and the PA decrease it harshly while giving the hunters half the base dependence and let the weapons double that coupled with a high modifier. The overall effect results in a Cast having about the same ATA as a hunter or ranger while the Beast has significantly less as a ranger.

I’d argue they did a pretty good job with that balance.

[MUDGRIP]

On 2007-11-14 15:00, Jaspaller wrote:
Fire up your xbox, we'll clash skulls head to head in halo 2 MLG lockout bitch!


excuse me sir but lets stay on topic here...we need to focus our thoughts on "ata" and not halo2 emelgee prostix4life and unSteAdy bR's oN mIdShiP.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Lol @ ATA being important for Acro classes. They use mostly high ATA weapons, so I really don't see why Beasts would fail due to their ATA, and more of the reason why I see CASTs as gimped Beasts in this class. And yeah, I agree with Uriko, my main is a Human, but still, its a little annoying when people bash on Newman Hunters, yet try to support Beast and CAST Forces, especially when the TP of the latter is far worse than the ATP of Newmans.

[Pillan]

Depends on how much they nerf slicer ATA really. If it's just sword/whip range, it's not a big deal, but if it's axe/double saber range...

[Pengfishh]

Who of you is starting a brand new baby character just to turn into an Acrofighter, though? Use whatcha got. I've got a Cast, you've got a Beast. Simpleasat.

[Jao]

can any one post a link to that site so i can check all stats?

[Carlo210]

I'm using my cast anyways. Already levelled up.

[Aviendha]

On 2007-11-14 19:39, Jao wrote:
can any one post a link to that site so i can check all stats?


http://tinyurl.com/yuuvbz
You're going to want to scroll down and click on "Lv110 time status" so you cause that link is the incomplete lv 120 data. Well, the 110 data isn't complete for every class/race/gender combo, but its much closer.

[Alisha]

i think the term best is in the eyes of the beholder. when i say best i'm looking at the overall package not just the ability to do damage so i think human is the best.

[ljkkjlcm9]

my acrofighter will be a male human, and that's all there is to it.

I want TP good enough to utilize the shadoog with a saber, while still being good in other stats. Beasts and Casts TP are too low for me, and I won't play a newman unless I'm going force... though I'm considering a newman Acrotecher.

THE JACKEL