Fortefighter or Fighgunner?

[killers7even]

Yo guys I'm new here. Sorry if there's a ton of these topics out there already, if someone can redirect me to a topic like this then that would be appreciated. What I would like to know is what class in your opinion is better, fortefighter or fighgunner? In my opinion it comes down to this, fortefighter gets axes and fighgunners get doublesabers, but I've never played axes before, so I can't really make a choice.

Also, which race is preferred for each of these two classes?

Thanks guys I appreciate it.

[pionear]

Both are cool, but with FighG, you get a better and more diverse selection of weapons.

[BlacKSye]

Human Fighgunner, Beast ForteFighter

[Hyper_Rappy]

I honestly dont like axes due to there slow attack speed. then again i dont play duble sabers eather (though i do have one).

[jayster]

Lmao, you have negative 1 posts.

But I think Beast is best for both those races. Personally I'd make a Beast / Cast fortegunner.



But on topic.

Fighgunner Pro's:
-VERSILLE!
-level 30 bullets
-crossbows
-twin handguns
-Machine guns
-Spears (ult pa is very strong)
-Double sabers
- ATP is close to fortefighter

Pretty much, fighgunners are quick but powerful strikers. Fortefighters are slow and very power. fighgunners get level 30 bullets though which I think make them better.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jayster on 2007-11-27 19:44 ]</font>

[killers7even]

Hmm I was thinking about being a fortegunner for awhile, but it always came on my mind how fast you must run out of ammo, since my ammo ran out fast on story mode. Does ammo run out fast online?

[Kimil]

Beast is best for both classes
If you end up picking Figunner and play it like a Fortefighter, you'll suck.
What I mean is the classes aren't the same, try them both out and don't simply chose one because of weapon Selection.

Fortefighter: Best Melee Class, period
Figunner: Worst defencive stats out of all the melee classes. They are great with guns Duallies, Crossbow) and have access to traps. If you chose Figunner, use EVERYTHING they have, not just doublesabers

[beatrixkiddo]

No, the best Fighgunner palette is 6 Crea Doubles, you don't know how to play the class Kimil wtf

[Nukei]

Recently Updated:
Depends on the situation.

As a fighgunner
---------
If you are fighting flying monsters, then you'd be able to use twin handguns to kill them.
Personally, I don't think double sabers are all that great. Their PAs lvl quickly and all but the damage is small compared to the damage caused by a saber + spinning strike (Comparing Crimson and Crea Doubles)
However, double sabers hit multiple targets.

As a fortefighter - Preferred race = Beast
-----------
Playing as a fortefighter as a beast gives a small bonus to your character.
-----------
If you're a group of ground monsters, or you are fighting a monster with multiple targets, you could use Jabroga or Dus Majarra in order to defeat the monsters quickly.
Axes are slow, however their full normal combo without JA would restore around 35~50 PP. Axes are powerful when combined with PAs such as Anga Redda. Drugedga seems to be more for knockback until it received a boost in power. Jabroga isn't very useful in the beginning - I thought it wasn't worth the 99 PA frags I spent on it until I leveled it (5% Atk Boost per lvl).
I assume that the Fortefighter class has the highest HP modifier in the game. This allows you to charge head on towards targets such as Komazli- as long as you have a freeze / resist in stock (Shouldn't be too hard to get... Just do Awoken Serpent C over and over again).
I also assume that the Fortefighter class has the highest attack modifier in the game. Even small handguns that only have 257 atk can hit around 450 at lvl 70 (This includes elemental bonus).
The Fortefighter class has the highest defense modifier in the game.
You also get a bonus PP Reduction when using skills.
If you love seeing lots of high numbers, I recommend Fortefighter.

Both Classes
------
...can use spears and the same PAs (replying to jayster's post)
...can use at least one ranged weapon
...have the same speed when using the same type of weapon



Note: I've played both classes and I will restart FI after I finish fF (1 Job lvl to go).

Important
-----
After the recent release of AoI, the Fortefighter's ATP Modifier and HP Modifier have gone up. Other stats may have been boosted as well.
Fighgunner Modifier

-------At Lvl 10 (From PSU Wiki)
HP 116%
ATP 116%
ATA 120%
TP 35%
DFP 120%
EVP 90%
MST 50%
STA 120%
CHR 100%

Fortefighter Modifier
-------At Lvl 10 (From PSU Wiki)
HP 130%
ATP 128%
ATA 100%
TP 25%
DFP 150%
EVP 50%
MST 50%
STA 100%
CHR 100%

Modifier Superiorities
----------
HP (FF Wins)
ATP (FF Wins)
ATA (FG Wins)
TP (FG Wins)
DFP (FF Wins)
EVP (FG Wins)
MST (Tie)
STA (FG Wins)
CHR (Tie)
[From Amesani]
Stats of a Lvl 100 Beast Fortefighter
HP ATP ATA TP DFP EVP MST STA
3327 1614 309 234 294 147 118 10

Stats of a Lvl 100 Beast Fighgunner
HP ATP ATA TP DFP EVP MST STA
2731 1287 371 569 232 314 120 12

Warning Biased Comments Based on Experience
--------------
I don't care about STA, EVP, nor TP. TP is unneeded for Fortefighters as they cannot use anything that relates to TP (Weapon-Wise).
The more evp means the more you may get interrupted when you use a PA.
As for STA, as long as you have a resist unit, you most likely do not need this stat unless the enemies can inflict multiple statuses on you. If you do not have a resist unit... Dodge, dodge, dodge!
(PSO Experience)
If you've played PSO as a high lvl in a low lvl area, since your evp would be so high, monsters would crowd around you and continuously hit you forever. You would be unable to move, etc. (This has happened to me once.)
I do not care about twin handguns since I've been playing with a little handgun since PSO with a hunter. I have no problem taking out flying enemies with a small handgun in PSU.

Message to the author
--------
If this poll is to let you decide which class to play, play the class that you see fit. I mean, play both classes. Play the one you like based on your experience. I started as a Fighgunner and I absolutely hated it. Twin handguns weren't that great, and if you are good at dodging while using a handgun, then you should not have any problem with a Fortefighter. Or, if you like both classes, start with one, max its job lvl, then switch to the other.

Note: Many people love the FI class, I'd assume around 20% of the community is at least FI.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nukei on 2007-11-28 15:07 ]</font>

[Carlo210]

Jay... Versille?

[Zael]

Actually, Human WT has a higher HP mod than FF lol

[Nukei]

But Beast gains 4% increase when being fortefighter while Human/Newman wartechers only gain 3.8%

In the PSU Wiki, If I remember correctly, I also read that a lvl 80 Male Beast has a 100% HP Modifier, while the lvl 80 Male Human of the same class and job level only has an 84% HP Modifier.

By the way... Why do people like double sabers so much?
If it is for looks... To me, most double sabers look like paddle sticks and the crea doubles look as thin as a tooth pick.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nukei on 2007-11-27 20:51 ]</font>

[Jao]

Crea doubles are classic

[Pillan]

As far as class, Fortefighter can receive and dish out more damage than Fighgunner, but Fighgunner can use double sabers and has superior ranged weapon options, trap access, slightly higher EVP, and extra STA. Of course Fighgunner can gain some ground against Fortefighter by using weapons that add less than 300 ATA and/or skills with less than an 85% mod.

Similarly, the race choice is primarily based on which weapons you intend to use. With slicers, double sabers, axes, swords, whips, and low accuracy skills, Casts deal around the same damage as Beasts from the accuracy difference, if not more. Casts are also clearly superior with all the guns Fighgunner can use except Shadoogs, which can take advantage of the slightly higher TP of Beasts and the lack of PAs kills the accuracy difference. So if you want high ranged and melee damage, Cast is the better choice. Otherwise, as people said before, Beast is the better option.

Also, though human gets a bonus as Fighgunner, it is difficult to argue that it’s the better race choice when Casts have more HP, ATP, ATA, and DFP and Beasts have even more HP and ATP along with slightly less DFP than Casts. The MST difference between human and Beast/Cast only offsets the HP difference if the magic damage is very low (and at that point you probably don’t care), and the EVP difference is nothing because Fighgunner’s mod is only 90% or 110%, which are both too low to see a difference between Cast and Newman if you’re wearing even GRM armor. So, given all that, it’s pretty hard to argue that human is a good choice. Newman also gets a bonus as Fighgunner, but no one will even try to argue that they’re best.

[Wallin]

Okay, only one person has mentioned them so far - traps. Are the Fighgunner ones no good?

[Pengfishh]

Fighgunner traps are fine. Casts are supreme.

[jcm5]

why does everyone call fortefighters slow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! more than half of them dont even use axes or big swords were usually rockin everthing else like spears, which arent slow and twin swords and daggers because we have such a high atp theyre really good. so stop calling fighters slow!!!!!!!!!!11

[ljkkjlcm9]

I love my doublesabers against groups of small/medium enemies, and against large enemies with multi hit. For 1 on 1, I now use shadoog/saber. Dualies are the best for taking out fliers, and for spreading SE, I use a Xbow with a dagger.... dagger to knock down a few/around, and Xbow to apply the SE

my common palette now will always have
Double Saber
Shadoog/Saber
Xbow/Dagger
Twin Handgun

the last two spots can be multiple things, or alternate elements of weapons I already have. Probably have a slicer on there too.

THE JACKEL

[Zorafim]

Fortefighters get a great selection of weapons, and have a PP reduction to them as well. They're the only class with S rank access to two handed weapons, while still having twin and single weapons at their disposal.

Fighgunner has a decent selection of melee weapons, and can use guns well enough to get good status effects out of them. Notable is their use of traps, but I don't think status is as good as it used to be. Also, due to gun's lower damage output compared to blades, you may not be using them that much.

I'd say, choose the one with the weapons you like. I don't think the stats will make enough of a difference to warrant the loss of a weapon you love. Also, keep in mind that you can easily switch classes now, and not have to worry about PA space. Assuming you have the money, you could level them both as you please.


What I'd like to know is, why didn't you consider Acrofighter and Wartecher? They're also melee classes, and they look like fine classes from what I've seen. Acrofighter takes away weapon choices for added speed (Which is very noticable, by the way), and Wartecher takes away some melee ability for tech options (and it's really nice to have resta and buffs on hand). Keep these classes in mind as well.

For races, if you really don't care about looks, go ahead and do beast. The best stat currently in the game is ATP, which beast is best at. However, don't think that you need to be a beast. You could get a similar output with a newman, I'm sure.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zorafim on 2007-11-27 22:31 ]</font>

[ljkkjlcm9]

simple reason not to look at acrofighter or wartecher

wartecher has techs, maybe he just doesn't want techs, that's how I am
and acrofighter, oh acrofighter.... it has become the spam slicer class

acrofighter and the slicer is far worse than the doublesaber and fighgunner ever was. The difference? even the noobs can use the slicer well, while it takes some intelligence to use a doublesaber effectively.

THE JACKEL

[Zorafim]

Neither of those are worth the loss of considering the class. Even if you don't like the concept of teching, you should give it a try to see if you like it or not. If you don't want to fall victim to the new fad, well, it'll change soon. Beyond that, there are other weapons you can use.

[Kimil]

I've actually found myself using my Techs now =/
Who knew, WT isn't too bad anymore lol

[Noblewine]

Either is alright though if your into attacking from a remote spot Fortegunner is good. If your into combo'ing and close range then you'll prefer Fortefighter.

[R2D6battlebot]

Fighgunner, level 30 bullets and the use of a few of the traps make them the 2nd most versatile class in the game (next to protranser of course). Fortefighters only real advantage other than stats would be the PP reduction, but thats easily undone by the melee attacking restoring PP anyway. Crossbows and Twin Handguns can completely shut down entire rooms that Fortefighters get to shoot a pistol at the whole day. Fighgunner for the win.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

What? Acrofighter not worth looking at? I swear, I love Slicers, but its not the only thing I use. I use single daggers and single sabers as well, and claws when that new PA comes along. It just makes me sad when people see a class and not use everything else it can use.

[DraginHikari]

I tired both Fortefighter and Fighgunner with my main but evenutally stuck with Figunner. It's mostly a thing of preferance. I really don't see a class in PSU that you could call completely 'worthless'

[KRKcl17]

On 2007-11-27 21:03, jcm5 wrote:
why does everyone call fortefighters slow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! more than half of them dont even use axes or big swords were usually rockin everthing else like spears, which arent slow and twin swords and daggers because we have such a high atp theyre really good. so stop calling fighters slow!!!!!!!!!!11



iLol.

[kazuma56]

I Prefer fighgunner because it's the closest thing to a PSO RAmar in terms of weapon selection and versatility (imo).

The only thing I DON'T use for fighs are traps, i'm very proficient in doing "just attacks" with almost every PA now so the damage output from attacks and PAs makes meleeing that much more useful as a figh and makes tornado dance that much more lethal on big mobs.

The problem I had/have with FF's is the limited gun capability of the class.... handguns just don't cut it when you get in a situation where "annoying" enemies are around and locking them down with an xbow/twin handgun makes it that much more safe and useful.

[panzer_unit]

The posted stats for Fighgunner and Fortefighter are out of date. There's a much bigger difference in ATP now. Fortefighters have slicers and level 20 handgun skills (with SE2 and the SE rate boost) ... which is way the hell better than they had it for ranged combat before AOI.

Axes are a really good weapon class now by the way. They've got ridiculously strong PA's compared to everything else I'm using as a Protranser, and recharge incredible amounts of PP per hit.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-11-28 08:15 ]</font>

[RadiantLegend]

On 2007-11-28 03:40, R2D6battlebot wrote:
Fighgunner, level 30 bullets and the use of a few of the traps make them the 2nd most versatile class in the game (next to protranser of course). Fortefighters only real advantage other than stats would be the PP reduction, but thats easily undone by the melee attacking restoring PP anyway. Crossbows and Twin Handguns can completely shut down entire rooms that Fortefighters get to shoot a pistol at the whole day. Fighgunner for the win.



I'd like to know the fF you have been playing with.

My JA rips everything to shreads. fF FTW!!!

[Zorafim]

Yes, axes are amazing now. Jabroga can do tens of thousands of points of damage, while Dugrega can knock things around for nearly a total of over nine thousand damage.
Swords are useless, though.

[Darkly]

melee is really broken right now, just choose what you would like to have shiny s-ranks in and go with that.

FF - has a nice spread of melee, incredible damage output, their only weakness being against melee resistant monsters, and flying enemies, or overly agressive enemies in general.

FiG - a very good output, a good spread of melee s ranks, no s rank guns however - they make up their stats loss on melee by being able to use guns when melee isn't the best form of attack.

[panzer_unit]

People seem to forget that doing regular melee attacks for PP is an even bigger bite out of the damage they're dealing than before, with PA modifiers being so high... so don't write off Fortefighter's built-in skill save. It still rocks.

BTW Zora's underestimating Axe damage. We've got to find some awesome internet joke featuring a higher number these days...
PT w/ lv30 Dugrega does 2x2000 + 2x2500 + 4x3000 = 21000
PT w/ lv30 Redda does 4x1500 + 4x1500 + 2x4500 = 20500

I don't know what's up with swords. Their PA stats are okay, but they don't get the same awesome combo move damage upgrades as other weapon classes.

[Kinako78]

I prefer Fighgunner because of it's versatility. But Fortefighter's far from being a bad class to use.

[Kylie]

For which race? That makes a huge difference, ya know. >>;

But I like both of them. If I had to choose a class to stick with for the remainder of my character's existence out of those two, I'd pick fighgunner simply for the versatility. Versatility is more important to me than power.

[ShynLocke]

Fortefighters are pretty ok...but Fighgunner is more of my my playstyle...THey're strong at melee and pretty much make fortegunners useless at the same time because they can status affect everything with our guns now and if my memory serves me correct our stats are better(tell me if im wrong). I personally dont use traps because crossbows own, but most dont like them because they lvl up so slow from 1-11(Lvling them does take time). They have no S rank guns but they dont need "flashy" to get the job done.
I forgot to add that i am a Male Beast


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ShynLocke on 2007-11-28 10:10 ]</font>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I have to agree that Jabroga is a totally awesome PA. On a lv 60-something Beast FF with Jabroga at only lv 16 or so, I do like 2k damage on a neutral monster each hit, mutiplied by 5 for the targets and 2 for the amount of hits and its insane. It just flat out destroys Drua Gohras and Grinna Betes if you're able to get a good Jabroga in. I also still love swords, I'm finally getting the hang of JA'ing with them, so Gravity Break is a monster on single target monsters.

[DEM_CIG]

if u want to be a tank be a FF, if u want a more of a diverse attack from mid range and or short range go fg... personally i like fg better....

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-11-28 10:06, ShynLocke wrote:
Fighgunner is more of my my playstyle...THey're strong at melee and pretty much make fortegunners useless at the same time because they can status affect everything with our guns now and if my memory serves me correct our stats are better

Put Fortegunner out of commission? No. Fortegunners are better with the same guns thanks to skill cap boosts, and IMO those are pretty much the weakest of the guns they get. Yes even crossbows.

[ShynLocke]

LOL @ that but i cant knock it since that's your opinion. All i gotta say is...i havent seen a Fortegunner around since the expansion...heck you're the first i've seen, and to say crossbows are weak is crazy. Have you tried them before? And i'll agree that you might(and i stress might) be stronger with guns with the skill cap and all...but melee wise?
See thats where the versatility kicks in. I remember a while back fortegunners were the ultimate solo class...but Fighgunners do it way better now thanks to those good ol lvl 40 PAs and lvl 30 bullets. Good Day http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Nai_Calus]

On 2007-11-27 20:54, Pillan wrote:
Newman also gets a bonus as Fighgunner, but no one will even try to argue that they’re best.



Oh yeeeaaaah? Newman Fighgunners are the best! No other race/class combo is so exquisitely pointless, or has so little stat matching. You want gimp, you got it, now suck it up and fight like a man.

...Not that I've ever seen another male newman Fighgunner. Ever. So, uh, fight like a woman I guess since every other newman FI I've seen was female.

Actually, it works pretty well as long as Big Numbarz aren't what you're after. I <3 Fighgunner.

Anyway, blahblahblah FF blah blah big numbarz smashy smashy. I don't play one and don't like playing as one so I got nothin' of value to say on that subject.

Now. Fighgunner. Glorious FI, the only class in the game except for those weird lolita space elves that cast Resta on you.

Do Double Sabers turn you on? Does the thought of Crossbows make your heart race? Twin Handguns make you all warm and fuzzy inside? Actually like Mechguns, you freak of nature you? Then Fighgunner is the class for you.

Fighgunner is a hybrid class. This might sound like a 'no fucking shit I knew that, asshole' thing, but considering some of the FIs I've played with it probably needs to be repeated again. XP FI has a pretty awesome selection of guns and it pains me that more people don't use them. Crossbows are awesome, both for spreading SEs and for quick damage. Twin Handguns beat the crap out of single handguns for shooting down flying shit. With L30 bullets now the 'gunner' part of Fighgunner has only gotten better.

Traps are quite nice as well, though I find myself using mine less than I used to now that FI has SE3 on its guns - Why drop a Burn G when I can just virus it with a crossbow, for example, but sometimes you don't want to wait for the SE from a gun to stick. XP

These days I mostly use saber/dagger paired with crossbows for the majority of things, with a spear with Dus Majarra and a Double Saber with Tornado Dance for big ugly shit I need dead quickly, and twin handguns for flying crap. FI really does best, I feel, when you make use of all of its abilities rather than trying to play it as a cut-rate FF. This does mean many boring hours of bullet levelling for your crossbows. XP

If you're just there for the double sabers you'll probably end up sucking and getting bored; use it all and you'll get more out of it. It's a nice versatile class and one I highly recommend, but then, I'm a bit biased. XP

So yeah. Go Fighgunner. Or else.

[Anduril]

I was a Male Newman Fighgunner for a while (On the 360), but then I caved in and went with AcroFighter instead...
Having played all the classes, I would have to say that between Fortefighter and Fighgunner, Fighgunner is better if you take the time to actually use it to its potential. If you are all melee, just go with Fortefighter. Double Sabers are nice, but picking a class soley to use them isn't a good idea.

[panzer_unit]

I assumed you meant useless for gunning, since you were talking about guns and comparing with fortegunners and everything. The stronger your PA's (except fortefighter... maybe...) the better you can solo stuff. That's totally true.

Crossbows are nice but gameplay and stat modifiers have changed... shotguns, lasers, and grenades are pretty much where it's at for actually shooting things.

EDIT: races - I'd go with Cast or Beast for Fortefighter (no use for TP) and any race for Fighgunner.
Just use what works best with your racial stats... beasts should look for high ATA weapons, newmans should look at Shadoogs to make use of high TP and weapon models with higher ATP.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-11-28 12:02 ]</font>

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-28 11:42, Ian-KunX wrote:
Oh yeeeaaaah? Newman Fighgunners are the best! No other race/class combo is so exquisitely pointless, or has so little stat matching. You want gimp, you got it, now suck it up and fight like a man.

...

Actually, it works pretty well as long as Big Numbarz aren't what you're after. I <3 Fighgunner.


Okay, so ammend my previous statement to say one person will argue Newmans make the best Fighgunners.


Anyway, I wouldn't be too concerned about versatility when using Fighgunner. Yeah, it's great and all, but you can keep up with your crossbow damage spamming Spinning Strike to a melee resistant enemy, and Fortefighter can do even more than that, so that alone says it's not worth that much.

Not that big on status effects either. They're great solo, but the only bullet "SE" you might need in a party is flinch, which works fine on opposite element, and, even then, you don't need it often and can probably pull it off just as easily with melee.

Plus, you know, the Double Saber itself was designed to be an overpowered weapon, which is the main reason it was tacked on to such a weak class. The new Spiral Dance has a 300+% ATP mod on the last move (6 hits as opposed to Majarra's 3 with the same mod) and the new Gravity Dance puts Renkai to shame.

So I'll argue that playing Fighgunner like a slightly lower ATP Fortefighter with Double Sabers is not in any form or fashion using the class below its potential if you know how to do it. Fighgunner's only real advantages are twin handguns to bosses (since you can't shoot them down with 1 handgun bullet), higher STA, and the double saber.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-11-28 13:04 ]</font>

[CyarVictor]

Fortefighters are still versatile. We may not get twin handguns, but with our atk power and a 20 bullets, we can dish out enough damage to take out fliers. Fortefighters do have a huge selection of weapons now, including S-rank twin/single sabers and A-rank slicers. Sega's mistake was giving fFs slicers, mobs(even fliers) are decimated in seconds. I'm sorry to say, but fortefighters are not a slow attacking class. Even with Anga Redda, the axe attacks with amazing speed and even more amazing damage.

Both fortefighter and figunner are good classes. Just depends on what you want to play. Beast and casts are both good selections for both. Even with the stat re balancing, a cast will deal 100-200 less than a beast naturally, but is better to use high attack powered weapons with low accuracy such as axes and 2h swords.

Just play with what you want. If you don't like fortefighter, then just switch over to figunner or vice versa. You don't even have to relevel a new character for that unless you're not happy with your race. Even then, you can just transfer PA's over to the common box. Experiment and find what suites you.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: CyarVictor on 2007-11-28 13:19 ]</font>

[ShynLocke]

Actually i was talking about the status effect in my first post, I could have been more clear in my first post but w/e. Maybe you can show me some fortegunner magic...because i havent seen anything from them at all since the expansion as i said before.

Well...back to my bullet lvling http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Darkly]

What i like about Fortefighter is you have to experiment with all your pa's to combat our lack of ranged.

For example i use assault crush on birds, i'm using the yohmei a ranks which are really long so that might contribute, anyway the first two hits of that pa tend to actually hit birds and knock them to the ground so i can pummel them with my final attack.