PSU is now?

[Pentence]

Well most of us have had enough of an oppritunity to play AoI.I think we all have a fair idea of how it is compared to PSU vanilla/ver 1 http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.So the question at hand is simple and thus...

Has PSU:AoI brought the game closer to PSOs former glory days?

[Wallin]

...remind me again why PSU was ever behind PSO to begin with...? Were the races not enough, the gender option not enough, the new clothes, the new classes, the new worlds...? Was it really so great to be in the same city going to the same 4 areas over and over again (like anyone went anywhere besides Ruins once they could anyway, and then Seabed)?

[Getintothegame]

I'm going to say it's getting close. I think the thing I miss most about PSO is how easy it was to make a team and get going - no matter what level. It's become a little harder now, for me anyway, being a lower level.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

This topic fails. From the very start, PSU has blown PSO away.

[Wallin]

On 2007-11-27 21:23, Getintothegame wrote:
I'm going to say it's getting close. I think the thing I miss most about PSO is how easy it was to make a team and get going - no matter what level. It's become a little harder now, for me anyway, being a lower level.



Well I agree with you there, although I'm surprised to see that from a 360 player... I assumed with the bigger population you wouldn't have any problem with that.

[Sychosis]

Where is my "PSO has always sucked compared to PSU." option?

[Pentence]

On 2007-11-27 21:27, Sychosis wrote:
Where is my "PSO has always sucked compared to PSU." option?


that would be the 100 years too late one mate http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif i figured it was more profound

[Sychosis]

On 2007-11-27 21:29, Pentence wrote:

On 2007-11-27 21:27, Sychosis wrote:
Where is my "PSO has always sucked compared to PSU." option?


that would be the 100 years too late one mate http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif i figured it was more profound



I figured that was the "zOMG PSO iz t3h ubar ::dry humps PSO disc::" option :/

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-11-27 21:30, Sychosis wrote:
I figured that was the "zOMG PSO iz t3h ubar ::dry humps PSO disc::" option :/

Yeah, same.

Needs either clearer options, or funnier joke options. This is a joke topic, right?

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-27 21:23, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
This topic fails. From the very start, PSU has blown PSO away.Mechanically? Yes. Community-wise? Hell no.

[Pentence]

On 2007-11-27 21:30, Sychosis wrote:

On 2007-11-27 21:29, Pentence wrote:

On 2007-11-27 21:27, Sychosis wrote:
Where is my "PSO has always sucked compared to PSU." option?


that would be the 100 years too late one mate http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif i figured it was more profound



I figured that was the "zOMG PSO iz t3h ubar ::dry humps PSO disc::" option


APRIL FOOLS..*whipsers* oh...oh its not...oh darn o well.........

Notice that 100 years too late IS NOT up there http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif i love word play but yeah i just created a fair spectrum as best i could.

[Krisan]

I think AoI hit the nail very close.. but perhaps not quite there. Rozenom City reminds me a LOT of PSO.. from the music, atmosphere, enemy layouts.. it is just damn near perfect. But uh, things like the AMF HQ, Sakura Blast, and Ice Caves all being reskins of previous missions with new enemies.. bleh.. I dunno, Rozenom really impressed me, as did a few other things, like the beach area, the casino, and the De Rol Le fight.. but most all the other new areas (while very fun and all) seemed to lack any sort of special atmosphere by comparison.

So.. still a few steps to go, I think. Albeit we're still pretty early into AoI, and there's no telling how many new missions, bosses, or other things we'll be getting over the next year or so..

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-11-27 21:33, Remedy wrote:
Mechanically? Yes. Community-wise? Hell no.

Oh hey, I agree 100%, but that is by no means an issue with the game, just the idiots playing it.

If only we could transplant the golden-age PSOBB community into PSU, a fun time would be had by all.

[Sychosis]

On 2007-11-27 21:35, Pentence wrote:
APRIL FOOLS..*whipsers* oh...oh its not...oh darn o well.........

Notice that 100 years too late IS NOT up there http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif i love word play but yeah i just created a fair spectrum as best i could.



Good thing I didn't choose it then.

[Pentence]

Yeah im sorry to all if its confuseing .It is simply a yes or no range highest yes at top lowest no at bottom.I thought that was easy enough to understand.

[darkante]

Much as i like the expansion which have brought alot of things.
I think they could have added a little more variation to the enemies instead of just color face over. >.<
That would make it alot better.

Say for example like the badiras look alike enemies on Scarred Planet (or whatever name)..
what if they could run/walk on the wall and jump off from them with their little feets, hahaha.
That would be annoying and awesome at the same time.
Or they just make a monkey enemy and it would make more sense lol.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkante on 2007-11-27 21:53 ]</font>

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-27 21:38, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
but that is by no means an issue with the game, just the idiots playing it.Sadly, however, with games like PSO and PSU, the community makes or breaks the game.

[AlphaMinotaux]

PSO came out years ago and was the first of its kind before anything of the sort of World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy 11 were introduced. So there is nothing to compare it too. Also the fact that Online gaming was still in its early development and to have this online game on a console was amazing.

I first played PSO when i was in 8th which made so many things better than they actually were. Things are always nicer when you are younger, simpler times.

If I ran into PSO for the first time ever tommorow I would say it was a shitty game with horribly repetative gameplay.

[Zorafim]

When I was playing the new AoI missions, no matter the difficulty, I couldn't help but think to myself "Holy **** it's PSO!" PSU was quite drab and terribly boring for quite some time, and I kept playing simply because I held on to the idea that something better was going to come along to fix the game. And, this was it.

Madoogs finally make a great melee/mage hybrid option, finally making support as easy as PSO had it. The missions can be soloed with some difficulty, or you can get into a group and go through it for a medium difficulty. The new missions have a great atmosphere, and the story is finally getting into the end of days that is so common to Phantasy Star. The game is much easier to get in to, much easy to stay in, and even easier to quit now.

There's simply no comparison left between PSU and AoI now. If I was forced to go back to pre-expansion, I'd probably just get my PSO disk and start playing that again.

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-27 22:16, Zorafim wrote:
Madoogs finally make a great melee/mage hybrid option, finally making support as easy as PSO had it.Not to mention making FOnewearls as obsolete in PSU as they were in PSO!

Also, support won't be as easy as it was in PSO (BB, at least) until we get a replacement for Glide Divine.

Edit: And a replacement for Striker of Chao.

And Resta Merge (or Marina's Bag).

And racial boosts to the range of support spells. =>.>=;

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Remedy on 2007-11-27 22:42 ]</font>

[Zael]

On 2007-11-27 21:38, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:

On 2007-11-27 21:33, Remedy wrote:
Mechanically? Yes. Community-wise? Hell no.

Oh hey, I agree 100%, but that is by no means an issue with the game, just the idiots playing it.

If only we could transplant the golden-age PSOBB community into PSU, a fun time would be had by all.


Agree 100%

PSU is a much better game, but PSO:BB had the best community in any online game I know of.

[D1ABOLIK]

On 2007-11-27 21:27, Sychosis wrote:
Where is my "PSO has always sucked compared to PSU." option?

Where is my "PSU can never compare to PSO no matter what sega does and will always be lesser of a game" option?

[Zorafim]

I think it's been established that this forum believes that PSU is a godsend, while all other forums believe that PSU isn't worth the breath used to say its name.

[Chuck_Norris]

On 2007-11-27 21:27, Sychosis wrote:
Where is my "PSO has always sucked compared to PSU." option?

[Dynheart]

Not quite there yet imo. The longevity of the game still suffers compared to PSO, but that's just minor. I tink PSO v1 still had more variety of weapons and armor, not to mention rares that PSU has now. All in all, the expansion brought it a few steps closer.

[AnamanaAU]

It's got some pro's and con's in the being on Par with PSO department.

Pros:
-More free mission variety, less boredom due to lack of exploration.
-Better customisation.

Cons:
-Lack of actual missions.
-Too many universes make the place a ghost town.
-Lack of guild system, they just added in the end of PSO, why skip it at the start of PSU?
-Generic weapons are more powerful than most unique ones, I get sick of seeing the same modeled equipment.

[Noblewine]

It does better with the recent updates however there are a couple of glitches and such. The Gache gache machine by far is the newest addition that has ripped people off so far because of a text bug. XD

[Angelo]

Where is the 'blatantly better than PSO' option?

[RemiusTA]

On 2007-11-27 21:21, Wallin wrote:
...remind me again why PSU was ever behind PSO to begin with...?


Thank you

[Pietepiet]

Technically, PSU has always been a much better game.
However, PSO was a more impressive game for its time. The first ever console ORPG, in a time where pretty much everyone was still on dial-up yet still kept playing? That's pretty impressive. Edge had a nice article on that last year. Still have the issue, so if anyone is interested I'm more than willing to scan it.
Besides that, I've heard the community was much better than what we have now in PSU? I wouldn't know, as I've never really played PSO online back in the day.

Basically, it all comes down to nostalgia. It's the same reason people still claim The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time to be the best game ever, while there are a lot of games out that that are much better from a technical point of view.

[Hyda]

On 2007-11-28 04:48, Pietepiet wrote:
Besides that, I've heard the community was much better than what we have now in PSU?Erm, considering a vast amount of people on there had hacked weps, I would have to disagree.

[amtalx]

PSU would be amazing if it weren't so easy.

[Pengfishh]

Far beyond PSO. I've tried playing PSO again since playing PSU (my ten year old brother was interested), and boy, it's awful. Just awful.

[Zorafim]

Funny. A few months ago, I booted up PSO and I thought, "Why am I playing PSU?"
Of course, the answer was that there wasn't anything I could do in PSO, while I was still developing in PSU, but that's besides the point.

[Kinako78]

On 2007-11-28 04:51, Hyda wrote:

On 2007-11-28 04:48, Pietepiet wrote:
Besides that, I've heard the community was much better than what we have now in PSU?Erm, considering a vast amount of people on there had hacked weps, I would have to disagree.



Indeed.

That said, I always felt PSU was better then PSO. It's game mechanics just adds a lot more variety to the gameplay.

[CelestialBlade]

PSO came first and exposed us all to the unique battle system and everyone was like WOW COOL BEST GAME EVER.

PSU comes along, improves on the battle system, and everyone's all LOL BEEN THERE DONE THAT THIS IS LAME. You know, despite the fact you get to do more than four missions and parties are much easier to form.

Given that PSO was the original, purists are always going to see it as the better game. That and people are notoriously opposed to change, good or bad. No different than those old men who always go "well back in my day...."

[Jaspaller]

On 2007-11-28 04:48, Pietepiet wrote:
Basically, it all comes down to nostalgia. It's the same reason people still claim The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time to be the best game ever, while there are a lot of games out that that are much better from a technical point of view.


lolololol, I expected this to come up sooner or later.

Where is the PSO>PSU option? PSU:AoI has definitely improved but the game is still missing something...

[Kinako78]

I believe that would be "no". Or maybe "few steps still" based on your comment.

[MrPOW]

On 2007-11-28 08:12, Pengfishh wrote:
Far beyond PSO. I've tried playing PSO again since playing PSU (my ten year old brother was interested), and boy, it's awful. Just awful.

I've been trying to play PSOBB again when my wife has control over the TV. It's still kinda fun, and there is a lot of nostalgia there...but the second she is finished my ass is off of the PC and on the 360 playing PSU.


On 2007-11-28 08:12, Pengfishh wrote:
lolololol, I expected this to come up sooner or later.

Where is the PSO>PSU option? PSU:AoI has definitely improved but the game is still missing something...

Yeah. Nostalgia.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MrPOW on 2007-11-28 09:21 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MrPOW on 2007-11-28 09:22 ]</font>

[Neith]

I'm with the 'give me PSOBB (or PSOGC for the most part)'s community in PSU' crowd. PSU is a great game (well, it wasn't, but it is now with AoI, aside from the bugs that need ironing out), but it lacks the community PSO had. Aside from the whining about DDwBP, rarz, and h4x Excals, PSO had a really solid, dependable community, which I find PSU sometimes lacks in.

Edit: PSU isn't any easier than PSO for partying either. How can it be easier than walking to a counter, and pressing 'Join'? PSU pretty much uses the same method, just with Mission Counters at lobbies rather than a central 'hub'.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: UrikoBB3 on 2007-11-28 09:24 ]</font>

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-11-28 09:21, UrikoBB3 wrote:
I'm with the 'give me PSOBB (or PSOGC for the most part)'s community in PSU' crowd. PSU is a great game (well, it wasn't, but it is now with AoI, aside from the bugs that need ironing out), but it lacks the community PSO had. Aside from the whining about DDwBP, rarz, and h4x Excals, PSO had a really solid, dependable community, which I find PSU sometimes lacks in.


To be honest, I haven't been impressed with *any* modern gaming community. Before and during my time in PSO, I also played Ragnarok Online. Whether on the official servers (back when it was free, sorry but I'm not paying for a beta game) or private servers, I never failed to find a really cool community. Nobody really gave a crap about you having one strict elite build for your class, or what equipment you had, it was more like "hey how about we do some suicide runs in Glast Heim, see how long we hold out XD" and honestly, those were a *blast*.

But now I talk to my friends that still play RO and I hear about the communities nowadays....now nobody wants to just go out and try anything fun anymore, everyone has the exact same stat and skill builds and screams and yells at anyone who doesn't fit the same mold. If you can't kill Bosses effortlessly then nobody wanted to even be your friend. I look at World of Warcraft and Everquest II communities nowadays, and honestly it isn't much different.

Times have changed and so have the gamers. Look back 10 years ago and all the kids were having fun going to eachother's houses for some Mario Kart 64 fun, or having a blast in Goldeneye, not taking anything real seriously. Conflicts broke out, sure, but everyone had their own style and competition was really fun. Fast forward back to now and now we have all these little 13-year-old pricks screaming at eachother over Halo 3, modern-day MMOs where nobody will party with you if you aren't using a cookie-cutter elitist build, and nobody goes over to other people's houses to multiplay anymore, online gaming has almost taken the social aspect out of the experience, ironically enough.

In short, I believe the entire nature of gaming has changed over the years and that the differences in community between PSO and PSU cannot possibly be blamed on only the games themselves. There is a large time gap between PSO and now, and so much about the gaming community as a whole has changed since. I believe it runs much deeper than just two games.

This is not to say that the PSU community sucks. You have your pricks, sure, but I've got so many friends now both from PSOW and from random parties that I'm almost never without a partner. All of you that I've met have been incredibly awesome, and I truly enjoy the social aspect of the game as a result. Our community may not be of PSO calibur, but it's hardly terrible.

Didn't mean that to turn into a philosophical rant XD But it needed to be said.

[Mysterious-G]

Meh, the rare item variety was far better in PSO. If there is a new rare realeased here, most people got it after some days of hunting. But in PSO... Good old times.
Learning all PSU drops by heart is easy ass hell, compared to doing that with the PSO ones. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

And the diffictult, of course. The thing I don't like about AoI really is, how damn easy it made PSU.
There's absolutely no challenge.

I also liked the % system way more in PSO...

And it's also terrible how you have to play your characters in PSU. Of course a Newman can be a FF, but it's a way too big difference. There wasn't that thing in PSO. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Oh well, if both games were still alive commensurate, I would propably choose PSO.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mysterious-G on 2007-11-28 09:34 ]</font>

[Kylie]

I wouldn't know because I didn't play PSO. *collective gasp* I don't really care either because I see PSU as it's own game, and I like it for what it is. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_confused.gif

[Jaspaller]

On 2007-11-28 09:19, MrPOW wrote:
Yeah. Nostalgia.


Yes, because whenever a PSO/PSU thread comes up the obvious answer must ALWAYS be nostalgia right? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif I'm not seeing that fun factor that I once saw in PSO as well as OTHER online games that had me addicted.

You can go ahead and give me the "go play pso you whiner" response, but the fact is that I do play PSO still. The lack of a community is what stops me from trying to play it alot, and I'm not so interested in moving to a server where half the shit doesn't even work properly.

[AnnabellaRenee87]

I miss the 2 toned music of PSO (slow and calm/fast and angry). That to me is the one thing I missed most being an audio phile. That and I loved Gal De Val Island. (think thats right)

Something that irritates me is there is no detail to the levels in PSU, same dark hall ways every where I go, but the Expansions AoI's levels are more detailed and look like real places, verses a randomly generated pattern of blocks...

Also aren't Video Games, The graphics suppose to gu up? Who here thought that the graphics in PSO where better? To me things in PSO just looked better than they do on PSU

The Expansion fixed almost all my complaints with the game, It no longer takes me a week to level up now, I can finally solo easily and level up in one sitting.

I have had the game sense launch laster year and my max character is only level 52, before the expansion i was 46, in less than one week i have played more PSU than I have in almost 2 months... 8 levels in 7-8 days...

People on my list are like, Wow long time no see.

And my Pen Pal in Hawaii is happy that I actually log on during my free time now...

The Expansion has actually got me playing again.....

[Krisan]

I don't buy into Nostalgia much personally.. I can say this because, while it might drastically affect some people, I seem to be immune to it.. How do I know? FFVII was the first FF I played, I do not think it is the best by any stretch.. OoT was one of the earlier Zelda's I played, and nope.. I do not think it is the best.. And likewise here, I played PSO from v1 to BB and I do not see it as having been better than PSU.. (Albeit, I think PSU lacks some of the atmosphere and charm PSO I had, I still firmly believe PSU is mechanically superior.. and that AoI is helping revive the atmosphere slowly..)

Maybe I'm just a rare breed though.. I have a hard time being biased toward anything.. I look at things very critically and tell it like it is, or at least tell it the way I perceive it to be.. (As in, give my best judgement on it.) I actually have a hard time understanding how people allow things like nostalgia blind them from from the reality of matters..

[Saphion]

Lo and behold, another PSO vs. PSU thread.

[Mwabwetumba]

The one point where nostalgia truly grabs me is with the classical DOOM series. Best shooters ever, in my opinion. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

Anyway, I think PSU has exceeded PSO for me now. I try to play PSO every once in a while again, but it tires me. Not the same with EP3 though, that's a unique game. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Turambar]

On 2007-11-28 09:32, Typheros wrote:
A lot of text. Cut out to save room



The reason for that is because indeed, the games themselves have changed. The games in the early days of networked gaming and MMOs are days where there still wasn't much in the way of immergence. These weren't games that appealed and attracted players in the same way that they do today. Previously, it was still a place for fun, and little more than that.

Move the clock forward half a decade, and you see a growth in gaming communities, to an extent that mirrors community in real life. Players have far more invested into their games, into their characters. All of this, for better or worse, brings out stronger emotions, stronger ideals, stronger immaturities, etc.

It would be wrong to say the social aspect of games have been taken out. Instead, social aspect of gaming has been transplanted into the game itself, with some spillover into technologies that have evolved to support this change (Voice chat, etc). People don't go over to their friend's house because they don't need to. Interaction on the same level can be gained even if you never leave your computer screen for some.

Once again, this is a for better or worse kind of thing. One can't really say whether this is good or not because I doubt we have seen the end of the evolution. The way I see it, the in game community is changing from one where the players know it as fantasy, to one where some will see it almost on par with their real life "reality". With this, positive and negative aspects of REAL LIFE interactions are seen ever more clearly in the online realm.

...It amazes me how much I can type when I'm distracting myself from my IPE lectures....I think I just missed half the history of the G7 group.....

[Fox_Makenshi]

From a technical standpoint, yes, PSU is better than PSO in every way. Though as a ranger I get bored since we don't have light/hard/special attacks anymore, it's just...attack. Sure we can change elements at any time but we just press one button over and over. It gets a little boring IMO.

Love,
Fox Makenshi

[Maxson]

Yeah, my Fortegunner doesn't get as much playtime these days because the one attack gets kinda boring... switching weapons helps, but I'd like to see some variation.

[Pengfishh]

On 2007-11-28 11:33, Fox_Makenshi wrote:
From a technical standpoint, yes, PSU is better than PSO in every way. Though as a ranger I get bored since we don't have light/hard/special attacks anymore, it's just...attack. Sure we can change elements at any time but we just press one button over and over. It gets a little boring IMO.

Love,
Fox Makenshi



At least you can mash the button. That always kept me awake. PSO's timed attacks were a lullaby.

[DoubleJG]

"Yes few steps still."

Only because I LOVE AOI, but it's only been two days since I've been online for it. Soooo, I may just be experience that new game excitement.

[Jife_Jifremok]

POS..didn't even like it back on the Dreamcast. The combat was boring and the customization felt incredibly lacking. I honestly prefer the older Phantasy Stars, and that is despite preferring realtime combat over turn-based.

And back in the Dreamcast days, there was an added shock factor of "Ohmigod Phantasy Star IV was so awesome but now there's realtime combat this is gonna be incredible!"...only to disappoint severely. You know, back in my day you didn't have to do fifty or a hundred Ladea Tower runs just to get the PsychoWand; only one run was needed. Back in my day (well, back in PSIV), healing techniques/spells and monomates didn't work on robots; they needed their own self-use Recover skill or Repair-Kit items. I saw no sign of old classic weapons like the Burst Rockets or Positron Bolt (PSU has some close elements though). Gone were the combo skills, gone were Skills altogether! No Crosscut, no Airslash, no Rayblade, no replacements either! All that is replaced by Attack and two other attacks that are slower but have the same animation. And what happened to MEGID?!

So uhhh yeah...PSO failed to meet my expectations back then, and while I may have had them set too high thanks to the sheer coolness of Phantasy Star (which remains the ONLY turn-based RPG series that I can still play, and only partially due to nostalgia), it's not like the gameplay itself managed to stand on its own for me. It was kinda fun while it lasted, and there were a few cool things, but...meh.

And then I had to go play PSO on the Gamecube about two years ago. Let's just say it hadn't aged well even when PSU was still not playable.

So..uhh...what's this about PSU? Oh yeah, much better than PSO even in its really crappy early stages.

[AlexCraig]

On 2007-11-28 10:13, Saphion wrote:
Lo and behold, another PSO vs. PSU thread.


I know, right? Why don't people stop comparing the games and just stick to what they like?
I mean, who gives who likes what game?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AlexCraig on 2007-11-28 14:07 ]</font>

[Zorafim]

On 2007-11-28 13:59, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
POS..didn't even like it back on the Dreamcast. The combat was boring and the customization felt incredibly lacking. I honestly prefer the older Phantasy Stars, and that is despite preferring realtime combat over turn-based.

And back in the Dreamcast days, there was an added shock factor of "Ohmigod Phantasy Star IV was so awesome but now there's realtime combat this is gonna be incredible!"...only to disappoint severely. You know, back in my day you didn't have to do fifty or a hundred Ladea Tower runs just to get the PsychoWand; only one run was needed. Back in my day (well, back in PSIV), healing techniques/spells and monomates didn't work on robots; they needed their own self-use Recover skill or Repair-Kit items. I saw no sign of old classic weapons like the Burst Rockets or Positron Bolt (PSU has some close elements though). Gone were the combo skills, gone were Skills altogether! No Crosscut, no Airslash, no Rayblade, no replacements either! All that is replaced by Attack and two other attacks that are slower but have the same animation. And what happened to MEGID?!

So uhhh yeah...PSO failed to meet my expectations back then, and while I may have had them set too high thanks to the sheer coolness of Phantasy Star (which remains the ONLY turn-based RPG series that I can still play, and only partially due to nostalgia), it's not like the gameplay itself managed to stand on its own for me. It was kinda fun while it lasted, and there were a few cool things, but...meh.

And then I had to go play PSO on the Gamecube about two years ago. Let's just say it hadn't aged well even when PSU was still not playable.

So..uhh...what's this about PSU? Oh yeah, much better than PSO even in its really crappy early stages.



Keep in mind, your primary argument is "PSU is better than PSO because PSO wasn't as good as PSIV." This prevents you from using nostalgia as an argument against PSO.

[Carlo210]

He didn't mention nostalgia, he mentioned game elements.

[Jife_Jifremok]

On 2007-11-28 14:11, Zorafim wrote:
Keep in mind, your primary argument is "PSU is better than PSO because PSO wasn't as good as PSIV." This prevents you from using nostalgia as an argument against PSO.


Let me expand a bit on this then...I mean, aside from having stated that the gameplay just didn't stand on its own back then and that it hadn't aged well. That was trapped within that wall of text somewhere.

Some two years ago I played PSO on the Gamecube. I had gotten over the disappointment of not being able to see PSIV's awesome elements in realtime combat, and was ready to see PSO for what it really was. I mean, after the little bits of nostalgia that I felt for some of PSO's cooler elements like the atmosphere (except for the so-called Forest...I hate indoor areas that pretend to be outdoor. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif), them sound effects, the AWESOME loading screens and sheer addiction-factor which usually doesn't last very long for me.

Well, I saw PSO for what it really was, all right. I tell you, there's nothing like struggling with the automatically-moving camera so often when I'm just trying to...well, move around while fighting things! There's nothing like having the same three-hit combo to use throughout the whole game, and techniques being largely pointless. Melee combat was bland, and the walk-before-you-run BS certainly did not help matters. I liked being able to switch from a gun to melee and back to gun though, that was cool. But the gunplay was more difficult than it should have been solely due to the auto-targeting! I cannot tell you how many times I've gotten hit by Chaos Sorcerors simply because auto-targeting had me shooting the wrong Bee. And why the hell are techs like Rafoi and Grantz there? When they're cast, the ONLY way to avoid them is to leave the room! I thought this was realtime combat, so why the hell am I getting hit with no chance to dodge like it was a turn-based game? And the Photon Blasts...UGH. FINAL FANTASY SUMMONS DO NOT BELONG IN REAL TIME COMBAT!! The PB animations weren't even that impressive to begin with---I wasn't even impressed by them in the Dreamcast days, let alone the Gamecube days! Oh yeah, and the bosses seemed to follow the same axact patterns every time so it got boring FAST.

In short, PSO felt like half-assed realtime combat.

PSU...well, PSU also felt pretty half-assed but it had things like manual camera movement, first-person aiming, the auto-targeting bullshit being almost completely gone (but remnants thereof still appearing sometimes like in Firebreak when you're going for a seed-zome but purifying one that's nearby instead, or the grende launcher damaging targets when you'd rather be damaging *other* targets within the explosion), bosses actually being somewhat unpredictable, MORE THAN JUST ONE ANIMATION FOR EACH MELEE WEAPON!!, being able to mix gunplay and swordplay without even switching weapons, not being limited to wearing a clown suit just because you wanna be a male newman techer (in other words, better customization)...did I cover everything? Oh yeah, and no more run-before-you-walk which was just plain pointless to begin with. Of course, it still has some of the problems that PSO had, like having to be LUCKY to get a cool item as opposed to simply earning it. And stupid shit like the Fakis meteor. But really, PSU just plays better. And with AoI's improvements is plays better than it had before...I mean, minus the balancing issues.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jife_Jifremok on 2007-11-28 14:43 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jife_Jifremok on 2007-11-28 14:45 ]</font>

[Jaspaller]

On 2007-11-28 14:06, AlexCraig wrote:

On 2007-11-28 10:13, Saphion wrote:
Lo and behold, another PSO vs. PSU thread.


I know, right? Why don't people stop comparing the games and just stick to what they like?
I mean, who gives who likes what game?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AlexCraig on 2007-11-28 14:07 ]</font>


I agree. These topics are pointless except for those people that increase the size of their E-peen by saying PSO or PSU sucks for whatever reason. Mods should just lock these topics instead. They always end up going down the same path

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-11-27 23:04, D1ABOLIK wrote:
Where is my "PSU can never compare to PSO no matter what sega does and will always be lesser of a game" option?

Right next to the "Hey guys, it's still 2000, right?" option.

[Mikura]

I agree the petty bickering over PSU and PSO needs to end. The game's may share the same lineage but that's where the similarities end. Both games are different and good in their own ways as I see it.

Having said that, I'll vote for "few steps still." Rozenom City really impressed me and it felt a lot like PSO with the level design and music. The rest feel like the typical mission re-skins that PSU had. If PSU ever had more diverse missions like Rozenom City, I think it'd come much closer to the feel and atmosphere PSO had.

Overall, it's gotten much better and the atmosphere and mechanics are feeling more like PSO but it still needs a little more work and refinement. But that will come in time as more content is released for AoI. I think it's far too early to be asking this question now to be honest.

[Sharkyland]

Things I mostly miss:

- weapons
(pso) i swing my sword, hits EVERYTHING in it's range
(psu) i swing my sword, hits ONLY 3 enemies

- techniques (see above)

- the 2nd attack
(pso) normal, hard, special (special had to do with the weapon equipped)
(psu) normal (does a combo), special (does a combo), weapon probably has some status inflicting not close to pso

- race specials
(pso) casts hp recovery, newmans tp recovery
(psu) cast suv, beast nanoblast

- pp
(pso) as long as you don't run out of tp or hp you're good, unlimited ammo here, no more tp attack with your wpn XD
(psu) everything's tied to pp

- loading screen
(pso) warp gate go slow up/down/left/right
(psu) now loading...

- psobb
(pso) that quicksand battle was a b----
(psu) still need to see something good that is involves the environment (tornado, whatever that last boss in psobb was fun)

- rares
(pso) specific enemy, specific difficulty
(psu) that rare... it drops from what enemy, what level range, what difficulty

---

Sure I can b---- what I miss from the last game. It's very difficult to compare imo. The only thing I really don't understand about AoI is the new sounds (they sound terrible to me probably because I'm still on monraul). It's nice to see some old stuff, but there are some things that be better than others and some that can't. It's like apples and oranges.

[Remedy]

Uh... Swords (and Partisans) only hit a maximum of five targets.

[ALC]

On 2007-11-27 22:38, Zael wrote:

On 2007-11-27 21:38, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:

On 2007-11-27 21:33, Remedy wrote:
Mechanically? Yes. Community-wise? Hell no.

Oh hey, I agree 100%, but that is by no means an issue with the game, just the idiots playing it.

If only we could transplant the golden-age PSOBB community into PSU, a fun time would be had by all.


Agree 100%

PSU is a much better game, but PSO:BB had the best community in any online game I know of.


I agree, except for PSO:BB having *the* best community in any online game. I would say it was second to PlanetSide. This is sort of off-topic, but what was great about PlanetSide was how the community got so involved in things. Like, there were people that actually designed and worked hard on things that the devs took serious looks at to implement, etc...

But anyway, I remember people would help each other hunt for things without even asking for help. Personally, I jumped into games that stated the person was hunting for something just to help him or her (I most remember helping Zael hunt vivienne, "VII" hunt guren, and Sumiko (Carl) hunt for milla). For the most part, you could trust other people in your party.

I wouldn't really say PSU's community is all that bad. I don't know how much different the 360 servers are, but on PC/PS2, you can jump into pretty much any random game (well, if it's open), and the people are usually pretty cool.

[Remedy]

What, may I ask, do you claim is better about PSO than PSU?

[D1ABOLIK]

On 2007-11-28 15:04, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:

On 2007-11-27 23:04, D1ABOLIK wrote:
Where is my "PSU can never compare to PSO no matter what sega does and will always be lesser of a game" option?

Right next to the "Hey guys, it's still 2000, right?" option.

Proud of it.Games were better back then.Ocarina of Time,Majoras Mask,PSO 1&2,Goldeneye,Perfect Dark,Super Mario 64,etc,etc.Nothing compares these days.Most people only care about features and graphics.Even if the gamepley and replay value are crap.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-11-28 17:05, D1ABOLIK wrote:
Proud of it.Games were better back then.

Again, this is just nostalgia. The past always seems better than the present.

[D1ABOLIK]

Its not just nostalgia.The gameplay was solid.The games broke barriers and pushed their genres.Its pointless though.People think PSU is better,and people think PSO is better.There is no right or wrong.IMO PSU doesnt come close to PSO in any way.Im sure people think the opposite.Im not gonna waste my life arguing over it.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

This is just stupid.

PSO seemed better, because it was innovative for its time.
PSU is by no means innovative, but it is an improvement over PSO in every way possible.


You people are incorrigible.

They try to make it like PSO? WAAAAAAAH, DOESN'T HAVE THAT "WOW, THIS IS NEW!" FACTOR LIKE PSO DID WAAAAAAAH.
They try to make it different? WAAAAAAH, THIS IS NOTHING LIKE PSO WAS WAAAAAAH.

[Carlo210]

On 2007-11-28 17:08, D1ABOLIK wrote:

On 2007-11-28 15:04, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:

On 2007-11-27 23:04, D1ABOLIK wrote:
Where is my "PSU can never compare to PSO no matter what sega does and will always be lesser of a game" option?

Right next to the "Hey guys, it's still 2000, right?" option.

Proud of it.Games were better back then.Ocarina of Time,Majoras Mask,PSO 1&2,Goldeneye,Perfect Dark,Super Mario 64,etc,etc.Nothing compares these days.Most people only care about features and graphics.Even if the gamepley and replay value are crap.


That's nostaliga. Goldeneye has horrible controls (and PErfect Dark), Super Mario had horrible controls as well.
Just because they were the first console games of their kind doesn't make them better than games today. I didn't like Mario 64 either, same with goldeneye and PD64. They hold a special place with me and my childhood, but they aren't very good games.

What if someone came up to you and said Pac-Man and Galaga were better than Mario 64 and Goldeneye? They're clearly basing their opinion on nostalgia, which is fine - those old atari and arcade games are good in 'their own way'. They aren't, however, better simply because of something so fallible as 'they're about gameplay'.
Also, last I remember, Goldeneye was praised due to it's graphics and features. Whoever thinks the controls in that game are better than current FPS controls is smoking something. lol
To assume every n64 and ps1 game was a perfect score is simply silly. How is Mario Tennis on the gamecube worse than Mario Tennis on the n64? It has special attacks? I'm pretty sure that's gameplay-related. It has solid gameplay, too.
Some games CAN be better than new games or compete with them (Super mario bros. 3 has a huge amount of variety and gameplay varying levels, for example), but this doesn't render that generation of gaming superior to everything else.

How is Bioshock inferior to Ocarina of Time? Ocarina of time is a spectacular game, but how is it infinitely better? Just because it came from a console that you grew up with as a kid, when you enjoyed games more than you do now? That's not a good argument. Bioshock tells a story the way no other game has before. There are no cutscenes and the entire story is told as you find posters, look at what's in someone's bedroom, and so forth. I never really doubted Atlas' identity until I saw a "Who is Atlas" poster charred over a bonfire.

You can enjoy Ocarina of time more than another game, but to say new games are crap because you enjoyed old games when you were a child is silly. N64 and PS1 games had better graphics and more features than their predecessors, so that makes that generation of games worse too, right? I assume you don't remember visiting gamespot and ign when the n64 and ps2 were out because everything was EXACTLY THE SAME as things are now and they STILL rate based on graphics, sound, story, lasting value, etc.
Many people hated that generation of games because they thought slide-scrolling was much better than slow and camera-control-problem-riddened 3d games.

Not to mention, gaming overall hasn't changed too much after the ps2 and n64 days, aside from online, so to say the gameplay of games 2 generations ago is infinitely better than today's games is just wrong. Gameplay has barely even changed. Go play Unreal tournament 1 and play Unreal tournament 2004 (or Unreal tournament 3, even) - it's the same basic thing. They may have made changes or tweaks that you dislike, but, overall, games, if anything, are on the same level of gameplay that they used to be.

I personally think Morrowind is better than Oblivion, but I will admit Oblivion has better gameplay while Morrowind only exceeds in story, depth, and atmosphere and fails at everything else.
Not only that, but you're arguing that PSU is too 'new' and sucks because it's 'too new'. Are you serious? PSU is one of the most conservative games of the new generation for god's sake.

By the way, use spaces after periods and commas. It's grade 1 english.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Carlo210 on 2007-11-28 17:33 ]</font>

[Remedy]

Well, they're already trying as hard as they can to make it like PSO in that FOnewearls are useless (lowest ATP class in the game does more damage meleeing than they do teching with the highest MST in the game, go figure) and HUcasts (FF Beasts in PSU) are the sole dominant players for damage.

[ALC]

On 2007-11-28 17:07, Remedy wrote:
What, may I ask, do you claim is better about PSO than PSU?


If you were talking to me, you misunderstood my post. I agreed with PSU being better than PSO. I was just saying that PSO's community wasn't the best I'd ever seen.

[Hyper_Rappy]

PSO was the glory days? 0_o

[YUKI_N]

On 2007-11-28 17:23, Remedy wrote:
Well, they're already trying as hard as they can to make it like PSO in that FOnewearls are useless


How long are you going to keep crying about this?

[Xaeris]

If we could somehow get a population on par with the JP servers, then I feel that PSU would be indisputably the greater game. As it is now though, I remember having the most fun with GC PSO. Sure, the US population wasn't considerably greater than PSU, but since it wasn't nearly as dispersed over such a large area, it was much easier to find a new person to play with everday, each day of that one great summer I binged on it.

Plus, it helps that the GC version was effing coded to run properly (eh, outside Seabed anyway), which is a damn sight more than I can say for the PS2 PSU.

[hypersaxon]

I thought PSU had a bunch of problems that made the game unenjoyable when it first came out, which is one of the reasons why I left before.

Now that the expansion is out, I'm really enjoying the game. A lot of the negative things about PSU have been improved for the better, and I love how I've been able to make tons of meseta just by running a couple missions (that Note Seed sells for a bunch http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif). The grinding system is a lot more reasonable than before, and being able to put techs back into a disc is great for those wanting to experiment with multiple classes.

So I have to disagree with people thinking PSU was great as it was, it needed some serious changes and now that those changes are implemented, it makes the game so much better. I remember falling half asleep playing PSU running missions for weeks just to get money for a frickin' A Rank, now I'm practically buying and equipping new A Ranks every couple of hours! So yeah, I'm definitely digging PSU a LOT more now that AOTI is out.

[Fredrick]

On 2007-11-27 21:21, Wallin wrote:
...remind me again why PSU was ever behind PSO to begin with...? Were the races not enough, the gender option not enough, the new clothes, the new classes, the new worlds...? Was it really so great to be in the same city going to the same 4 areas over and over again (like anyone went anywhere besides Ruins once they could anyway, and then Seabed)?


All you are doing is listing off exactly what's wrong with PSU. It's very big, it has a lot of weapon types, and a lot of classes, but no part of it stands out as being good.

Yes PSU may have a million different areas, but none of them match the art direction and detail the areas in PSO had. And its the same with the classes. No matter what class you pick in PSU it never feels like enough. PSO has a much more rewarding feel to it. It's overall concept, balance, and execution is much better than that of PSU.

If you asked people who have played a lot both PSO and PSU which is better, a lot of them might say PSU. But ask them which one they had the most fun with and have the best memories of, I would imagine almost all of them would say PSO. PSO has something about it that makes people fall in love with the game. It's not any one thing you can put your finger on. PSU has no love. It's just unrewarding adiction.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-11-28 18:50, Fredrick wrote:
All you are doing is listing off exactly what's wrong with PSU. It's very big, it has a lot of weapon types, and a lot of classes, but no part of it stands out as being good.Yeah, because having more features is totally a bad thing.


Yes PSU may have a million different areas, but none of them match the art direction and detail the areas in PSO had. And its the same with the classes. No matter what class you pick in PSU it never feels like enough. PSO has a much more rewarding feel to it. It's overall concept, balance, and execution is much better than that of PSU. PSO was more balanced? Rofl, sure.


If you asked people who have played a lot both PSO and PSU which is better, a lot of them might say PSU. But ask them which one they had the most fun with and have the best memories of, I would imagine almost all of them would say PSO. PSO has something about it that makes people fall in love with the game. It's not any one thing you can put your finger on. PSU has no love. It's just unrewarding adiction.

And then ask people the same question in ten years, comparing PSU to whatever online PS game is out then, and, unsurprisingly, the majority will say PSU for the same "mysterious" reasons (i.e. nostalgia, really, it's that simple) they now think thet shitfest of PSO was worthwhile.

[D1ABOLIK]

On 2007-11-28 17:23, Carlo210 wrote:

On 2007-11-28 17:08, D1ABOLIK wrote:

On 2007-11-28 15:04, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:

On 2007-11-27 23:04, D1ABOLIK wrote:
Where is my "PSU can never compare to PSO no matter what sega does and will always be lesser of a game" option?

Right next to the "Hey guys, it's still 2000, right?" option.

Proud of it.Games were better back then.Ocarina of Time,Majoras Mask,PSO 1&2,Goldeneye,Perfect Dark,Super Mario 64,etc,etc.Nothing compares these days.Most people only care about features and graphics.Even if the gamepley and replay value are crap.


That's nostaliga. Goldeneye has horrible controls (and PErfect Dark), Super Mario had horrible controls as well.
Just because they were the first console games of their kind doesn't make them better than games today. I didn't like Mario 64 either, same with goldeneye and PD64. They hold a special place with me and my childhood, but they aren't very good games.

What if someone came up to you and said Pac-Man and Galaga were better than Mario 64 and Goldeneye? They're clearly basing their opinion on nostalgia, which is fine - those old atari and arcade games are good in 'their own way'. They aren't, however, better simply because of something so fallible as 'they're about gameplay'.
Also, last I remember, Goldeneye was praised due to it's graphics and features. Whoever thinks the controls in that game are better than current FPS controls is smoking something. lol
To assume every n64 and ps1 game was a perfect score is simply silly. How is Mario Tennis on the gamecube worse than Mario Tennis on the n64? It has special attacks? I'm pretty sure that's gameplay-related. It has solid gameplay, too.
Some games CAN be better than new games or compete with them (Super mario bros. 3 has a huge amount of variety and gameplay varying levels, for example), but this doesn't render that generation of gaming superior to everything else.

How is Bioshock inferior to Ocarina of Time? Ocarina of time is a spectacular game, but how is it infinitely better? Just because it came from a console that you grew up with as a kid, when you enjoyed games more than you do now? That's not a good argument. Bioshock tells a story the way no other game has before. There are no cutscenes and the entire story is told as you find posters, look at what's in someone's bedroom, and so forth. I never really doubted Atlas' identity until I saw a "Who is Atlas" poster charred over a bonfire.

You can enjoy Ocarina of time more than another game, but to say new games are crap because you enjoyed old games when you were a child is silly. N64 and PS1 games had better graphics and more features than their predecessors, so that makes that generation of games worse too, right? I assume you don't remember visiting gamespot and ign when the n64 and ps2 were out because everything was EXACTLY THE SAME as things are now and they STILL rate based on graphics, sound, story, lasting value, etc.
Many people hated that generation of games because they thought slide-scrolling was much better than slow and camera-control-problem-riddened 3d games.

Not to mention, gaming overall hasn't changed too much after the ps2 and n64 days, aside from online, so to say the gameplay of games 2 generations ago is infinitely better than today's games is just wrong. Gameplay has barely even changed. Go play Unreal tournament 1 and play Unreal tournament 2004 (or Unreal tournament 3, even) - it's the same basic thing. They may have made changes or tweaks that you dislike, but, overall, games, if anything, are on the same level of gameplay that they used to be.

I personally think Morrowind is better than Oblivion, but I will admit Oblivion has better gameplay while Morrowind only exceeds in story, depth, and atmosphere and fails at everything else.
Not only that, but you're arguing that PSU is too 'new' and sucks because it's 'too new'. Are you serious? PSU is one of the most conservative games of the new generation for god's sake.

By the way, use spaces after periods and commas. It's grade 1 english.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Carlo210 on 2007-11-28 17:33 ]</font>
I said it was just my opinion and im sure other people disagree.Also never attacked your opinions.Also never said a game being from my childhood made it better.Plenty of those games sucked.Im not gonna sit here and debate it with you.Especially if your just gonna be an A hole anyways.

[Jife_Jifremok]

Gotta love it when someone gets pwned and they only defend themselves by saying that it's their opinion.

[D1ABOLIK]

It is.I disagree with him and he disagrees with me.I love the control on all of those games and he doesnt.I never attacked him and fail to see how i got pwned when everything he stated was just his opinion.Everything i stated was mine.Thats what this thread is about is people stating there opinons right?

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-11-28 19:46, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
Gotta love it when someone gets pwned and they only defend themselves by saying that it's their opinion.

I more so love the fact that he cannot find the space bar sporadically.You know,like this.It's really quite annoying,no?

[Jife_Jifremok]

On 2007-11-28 19:49, D1ABOLIK wrote:
It is.I disagree with him and he disagrees with me.I love the control on all of those games and he doesnt.I never attacked him and fail to see how i got pwned when everything he stated was just his opinion.Everything i stated was mine.Thats what this thread is about is people stating there opinons right?



First of all, calling someone an Ahole does sound like an attack. Second, he was not harshly attacking your opinions. After you said that new games do not compare to the likes of Ocarina of Time, etc, and that people these days only care about graphics and features even if gameplay is crap, he pointed out that features are a part of gameplay. And said that it's silly to say old games are better simply because of the nostalgia. He made numerous examples and had a logical conclusion.

You, on the other hand, only said that it's your opinion. While everyone is entitled to their own opnion, there is such a thing as a valid opinion...and if you cannot defend your statements with reason, then your opinion may be viewed as invalid. I thought the point of being on a forum was to be heard. What was so much better about Ocarina of Time or Goldeneye than similar games of today? Think about these, and form logical conclusions.

[D1ABOLIK]

I called him that after he attacked me.Never did i state these games were better because they were older.All game franchises change over time.Some for the better,and some for the worse.But it is in the eye of each individual playing the games whether the changes were for better or worse.Thats where the opinions come in.As i stated earlier,to me the Phantasy Star series has changed for the worse.As i also stated earlier that was just MY opinion.He disagreed with my opinion as im sure alot of people do.Thats fine.I dont need him to agree with me.But he shouldnt attack my beliefs because they are not the same as his,which he did.And he shouldnt tell me the only possible reason i could like these games better is nostalgia when there are multiple reasons why a person can prefer one game over another.I never said i liked them better cause they were from my childhood.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

You're missing the point.

If you cannot provide a logical grounds for your opinion, it isn't valid.

[Dhylec]

OK, guys, looks like this is another failed PSU vs PSO topic. Let's stop it here before it gets worse.