AotI-PC/PS2: Honestly, is visiting a player shop that offens

[Kietrinia]

I don't know if anyone else has had this happen, but it seems a bit rude to me..

I go into a person's store, going to buy some S grinders, but then I forget what level the weapon I wanna grind on is.

I run back to my room, check on it, and then go back to my terminal to look up something else before going back to his room.

While doing that, the owner of that room comes into my room, walks up to me, and leaves suddenly...

...then I find I can't go to his room anymore.

He BL'ed me for visiting his shop!

I'm sorry to go off on a rant, but this seems horribly confusing to me. Anyone else have this happen to them before? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kietrinia on 2007-11-30 21:11 ]</font>

[Gigorman]

I believe the word you want is "bizarre".

[Blue-Hawk]

Note to self- never visit player shops or open one. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Da_trader]

On 2007-11-30 21:14, Blue-Hawk wrote:
Note to self- never visit player shops or open one. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



umm u will have to open one unless u goin to rely on the kindness of strangers to give u meseta which i doubt or hunt all the meseta u need on ur on or hunt every item u want on ur own which i highly doubt so u will need that shop anyways there aint that many room hackers around i think

[Gunslinger-08]

On 2007-11-30 21:15, Da_trader wrote:
umm u will have to open one unless u goin to rely on the kindness of strangers to give u meseta which i doubt or hunt all the meseta u need on ur on or hunt every item u want on ur own which i highly doubt so u will need that shop anyways there aint that many room hackers around i think


You know, it never hurts to use punctuation

on topic: sounds like a paranoid guy to me. I wouldnt sweat it. he won't be getting your money. plain and simple.

[Shadow_Wing]

Yea I'd call it bizarre lol



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shadow_Wing on 2007-11-30 21:24 ]</font>

[beatrixkiddo]

On 2007-11-30 21:09, Kietrinia wrote:
I don't know if anyone else has had this happen, but it seems a bit rude to me..

I go into a person's store, going to buy some S grinders, but then I forget what level the weapon I wanna grind on is.

I run back to my room, check on it, and then go back to my terminal to look up something else before going back to his room.

While doing that, the owner of that room comes into my room, walks up to me, and leaves suddenly...

...then I find I can't go to his room anymore.

He BL'ed me for visiting his shop!

I'm sorry to go off on a rant, but this seems horribly confusing to me. Anyone else have this happen to them before? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kietrinia on 2007-11-30 21:11 ]</font>


Maybe he thought you were reselling some of his goods?

[Sychosis]

On 2007-11-30 21:26, beatrixkiddo wrote:

On 2007-11-30 21:09, Kietrinia wrote:
I don't know if anyone else has had this happen, but it seems a bit rude to me..

I go into a person's store, going to buy some S grinders, but then I forget what level the weapon I wanna grind on is.

I run back to my room, check on it, and then go back to my terminal to look up something else before going back to his room.

While doing that, the owner of that room comes into my room, walks up to me, and leaves suddenly...

...then I find I can't go to his room anymore.

He BL'ed me for visiting his shop!

I'm sorry to go off on a rant, but this seems horribly confusing to me. Anyone else have this happen to them before? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kietrinia on 2007-11-30 21:11 ]</font>


Maybe he thought you were reselling some of his goods?



That's likely the reason. I blacklist obvious resellers. You know, the ones who come into your room and ask to buy all of your ________ and when you search for ________ their own shop comes up :/

[Jainsea]

wow, thats lame beyond words = well F them, they just lost your customer bussiness, guess they dont like meseta http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif ( lolz)

[Kietrinia]

Hrm, I guess he did think I was a reseller..

I ran out of S grinders a long time ago, and I actually needed some for me this time. Not some for profit. :

Seems pointless though. Reselling or not, he would've been paid the money he wanted. Why would he care what happenned afterwards? That's how I look at it at least..

[Remedy]

Because some people enjoy putting things up for what they should be valued at, and want those to be used, not resold by some selfish prick just trying to make an easy buck.

Not saying that's what you were doing - you said that you weren't - but I can completely see where the guy was coming from.

[Kietrinia]

Well, no meseta for him. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Reipard]

Because some people enjoy putting things up for what they should be valued at, and want those to be used, not resold by some selfish prick just trying to make an easy buck.

What the hell does it matter? As long as they get the price they asked for it, what happens afterward is absolutely none of their business.

[Kietrinia]

On 2007-11-30 21:50, Kietrinia wrote:
Seems pointless though. Reselling or not, he would've been paid the money he wanted. Why would he care what happenned afterwards? That's how I look at it at least..

Let me apologize for saying this. I was tired, feeling a little upset, and I've my finance/accounting courses fresh in my head...

Reselling is a rather mean thing to do to the customer. However, the main reason that I don't have a problem with people who do it is because some of my best customers have actually been resellers.

If I sold a bunch of grinders at 20k, and a reseller came in and bought them and then resold them at 30k is just shooting themselves in the foot. I just made 20k, and they're making a max of 10k in profit each.

I think that I, the "victim" of this, am walking away from this better off than the reseller is. They've taken the pressure of moving inventory away from me and taken it upon themselves to try and sell their stuff. Meanwhile, I'm reinvesting my money into making more stuff and there's a good chance I'll keep selling at whatever price I was selling at (because it was obviously low enough to move inventory).

Sorry if I came off the wrong way there. Like I said, I was a lil cranky and I'd forgotten about the people in the business world for a moment. You can blame all the business courses I'm taking. They tend to depersonalize alot of people involved in the business world, and that's not right. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Raine_Loire]

On 2007-12-01 06:53, Kietrinia wrote:


I think that I, the "victim" of this, am walking away from this better off than the reseller is. They've taken the pressure of moving inventory away from me and taken it upon themselves to try and sell their stuff. Meanwhile, I'm reinvesting my money into making more stuff and there's a good chance I'll keep selling at whatever price I was selling at (because it was obviously low enough to move inventory).



Who said the shop owner is the "victim" anyway? The victims are people who need the materials that they could have gotten from you for the price you were selling them at, but instead have to pay a mark up from someone who designated themselves a middle man.

If you have to look at it from a way that shows why it would disadvantage you, look at it this way... you sell materials for a certain price, someone comes along, buys them at your price and turns around and doubles it. Other people selling the items think "Oh, hey they're selling for this much? Cool?" and they all raise their prices. People who need that material are forced to pay these inflated prices, then have to turn around and price the weapons and armor they make with that material for double the price just to break even. Then you are out shopping for a new weapon or armor, and BOOM hit with huge prices, all because YOU didn't care if a reseller bought your items. Oh, and since you continue to sell your items at YOUR price (since it moves inventory and all) you can't AFFORD these weapons and armor you were shopping for anyway. Hit twice.

Maybe that's a little oversimplified but you get the point. So yes, resellers are INDEED bad for the economy, not just shooting themselves in the foot.

[Reipard]

It does not work that way, especially now that buyers can find the immediate lowest price of anything. If anything, that middle-man will have more people undercutting them than anything else.

[Raine_Loire]

If that was true you would be able to find an ebon for under store price. The truth is when people undercut, it's often the "middleman" who buys from them.

[Mystil]

Resellers are the main reason I don't put up a lot of "wanted hot" items in my shop.

[Reipard]

If that was true you would be able to find an ebon for under store price. The truth is when people undercut, it's often the "middleman" who buys from them.

You need a lot of money to begin with and it's not a strategy that works. For a reseller to work these days it has to be an item that A: moves quickly and B: is relatively cheap. In order to ensure their 'lowest' price is the one people flock to, they would have to buy out everyone up to that price first. And if they're NOT broke, they have to hope it moves before more people post their hot items up for less than theirs.

WIth Conditional Search it simply doesn't work. It was much easier to pull off when there was a level of price ignorance that people had due to the lack of information from the shop search.

[Raine_Loire]

I just disagree with you- honest people will use the conditional search function as you say, however there are a lot of kids in the game who want to get meseta. And eventually (fairly quickly) the lowest priced items sell out and you're left with higher priced items.

For instance, I have been selling A+10 grinders for 20k in my shop. For 2 days the next lowest price was 50k. Within 3 minutes of me putting mine up they were gone and all that were left were the 50k ones. If the people who bought mine were reselling them for 50k, they had the corner on the market. Your theory would only work if there were great quantities of items up for sale (like someone selling 50 psycho wands for 100k). In that case it would be beyond most people to buy them ALL out and resell. But when you're talking about people who make 1 mil or more off an item, it is pretty easy for them to buy out the 1 or 2 that come along every few days for less than what they sell for. I'm not online in the game right now so I can't cite specific examples, but in the last week I've looked for some NORMALLY cheap items and found the prices EXCESSIVE... ex: koltova gras, inverter circuit, ebon. I can't think of any more at the moment- but I lean towards catilium as well, I don't know if it was cheaper pre expansion, but I know it is ridiculous to price something someone needs nearly 10 of for ONE weapon higher than a million.

We aren't dealing with wall street traders, or even wal mart pricers. we're talking about mostly teenagers- sheep mentality.

[Remedy]

Errr, you only need two Catilium for a weapon. Five, if you're making a 11*.

If we want to talk about materials that are overpriced to bullshit levels, let's talk about Diads and fucking THIRTY PER FUCKING SYNTH.

[Noblewine]

On 2007-11-30 21:09, Kietrinia wrote:
I don't know if anyone else has had this happen, but it seems a bit rude to me..

I go into a person's store, going to buy some S grinders, but then I forget what level the weapon I wanna grind on is.

I run back to my room, check on it, and then go back to my terminal to look up something else before going back to his room.

While doing that, the owner of that room comes into my room, walks up to me, and leaves suddenly...

...then I find I can't go to his room anymore.

He BL'ed me for visiting his shop!

I'm sorry to go off on a rant, but this seems horribly confusing to me. Anyone else have this happen to them before? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kietrinia on 2007-11-30 21:11 ]</font>


The person was probably just paranoid. I've come across shops that have passwords to keep certain people out. One person I traded rappy feathers for during 1up shop was locked. XD

[YUKI_N]

On 2007-12-02 19:42, Remedy wrote:
If we want to talk about materials that are overpriced to bullshit levels, let's talk about Diads and fucking THIRTY PER FUCKING SYNTH.
Crea Doubles = 15 Goldania

Bil de Axe = 15 Morbinia, an item that has been at critically high prices since firebreak because Twin Bearclaw also used 15 per synth, boards for both being FAR more common than psycho wand

You would have a point if Ydral was even 1/4th as rare as Catilium. Don't compare a super rare 12* item to common 10*s that have ingredients that are far rarer than the actual boards at this point. And STOP turning ever single topic you post into BAWWWWWWW FORTETECHER. If you hate the job that fucking much, quit it already

[Sekani]

On 2007-12-02 19:42, Remedy wrote:
Errr, you only need two Catilium for a weapon. Five, if you're making a 11*.

If we want to talk about materials that are overpriced to bullshit levels, let's talk about Diads and fucking THIRTY PER FUCKING SYNTH.


No, let's not. Stop derailing every thread you see with your "WAAAAAAAAAAH Sonic Team hates fortetechers" bullshit.

Besides, more people need catilium than you need diads. Deal with it.

[CelestialBlade]

Hey, if people don't want to play the marketting game, they should get the hell out of the Player Shop business. Welcome to capitalism. Everyone's out to make a profit, using whatever they legally can to do so. This involves buying out and selling higher, it's a simple concept that's been the American way of life for a very long time.

If they want to blacklist to protect themselves against buying out, that's their choice and that's fine, but if they're literally getting offended by it then maybe they need to take a marketting class.

[F-Gattaca]

I personally didn't have a problem with resellers swooping in on my shop. In fact, I expected it, since I always try to sell items at 50% their retail value when applicable.

Sure, it'd be great to know that your items are getting used--as PM food or for synthing or for whatever--but honestly, who the hell can tell for sure the intentions someone has? The only real method would be to check on the shop listing to see wh has recently bought from you and if they're reselling the item ...

I personally just want business, however.


On 2007-12-03 13:44, Remedy wrote:
God forbid people think that capitalism is one of the biggest flaws in human society (which it is).



It's a damned sight better than communism/socialism, for several good reasons.

On the other hand, you can't really judge capitalism or any other economics system based on the economics of an MMORPG!

Sure, it might be able to emulate it in some respects, but the reasons why capitalism worked economically and communism/socialism didn't go beyond the scope of what MMORPGs can truly emulate.

For one: Innovation and technological progress. In a centrally planned economy like the Soviet Union's, this was headed up by bureaucrats with no risk to themselves; no one has incentive to do their best or make sure the job is done right. In a capitalist economy like the U.S., innovation and technological advancement are important to economic success--and as an entrepreneur, your money and your butt is on the line. You have every reason to make sure you succeed. Thus, capitalism is very good at promoting both.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: F-Gattaca on 2007-12-03 14:18 ]</font>

[Raine_Loire]

I disagree... Although communism is a flawed system, it is human nature that makes it flawed. The theory behind it is sound, and it could theoretically be a much better system than capitalism if you took out human nature.

[Chaosgyro]

So says everyone when communism comes up...and everyone is wrong.

At the most basic level, communism is attempting to create some sort of superconductor out of its society. By that I mean that it expects everything to be put into the system, and everything to come back out. Set up between a few dozen individuals on an isolated farm, this might work. Not so for a country.

The entirety of the population puts the entirety of their wealth into the hands of the government to distribute back evenly. Now, let the government take some of that wealth to keep itself running. Take some more to provide for the common defense and social services like police and water. Take even more to devote to research and development. Take just a bit more to provide for education. Now dole it back out....UH OH! All of those areas of society that don't actively create wealth just took some pie, and a percentage of your population now has to go without. On the next run through your society has produced proportionately less wealth, and therefore a greater percentage goes without. Et cetera.

The Soviet Union didn't screw up communism, they just let greed and other factors hasten the end result of it far quicker. (it could be said the only reason it lasted as long as it did was because of the vast natural resource potential of the Russian subcontinent)

[Raine_Loire]

Left communism isn't about the people giving their wealth to the government and having it given back to them- it's about no one having wealth. No one having ANYTHING, really. No one owns anything, no one inherits anything. The government regulates everything, transportation, health care, schools, housing, etc, and it is all given to the people.

Your saying that a percentage of the people go without is a direct contradiction to communism, seeing how they wanted to disable the class system, and everyone would be equal. So if there are people getting all they need, and others not getting anything, then the system is not working, and as I said it all goes back to human error and greed. I view it like math- it's all averages. That is why it cannot work. I can't see communism ever succeeding with the way human nature is. There will always be the unemployed that want to live off the state. There will always be those who want their compensation to directly reflect what they perceive as their own value. Even the countries that are left as communist states have integrated some capitalist values to survive.

To bring this on topic... ehhh, I can't do it. People went off on a tangent when they ASSUMED that the OP was blacklisted because the store owner thought they were a reseller. Who knows why the OP was really B-listed, maybe the store owner just didn't want anyone in their shop, maybe they weren't b-listed it may have just been a game glitch, and maybe the OP purposely misrepresented themselves in the post, and they really ARE a reseller. How that all led to a discussion on communism... that's the real mystery.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Raine_Loire on 2007-12-07 01:44 ]</font>

[Chaosgyro]

The original topic has already been hashed out. The current one is much more interesting.

What I'm saying is that in a communist society no one owns anything certainly, but there must somewhere be a body or group of bodies whose sole purpose is to make sure that everyone gets what they need. In a specialized society where not everyone actively produces "wealth" the drain of providing for civilization will either cause the available pool of wealth to be spread too thinly to meet every member's needs, or the majority will have enough while the unfortunate will go with nothing.

This is why we see communist principles working in small, agrarian "hippie" communites or in hunter-gatherer villages and tribes. The governmental overhead is either negligible or nonexistant, and every member of society is engaged in a activity that actively produces needed goods.

In a modern, civilized society this isn't the case. A scientist who spends 10 years coming up with a medicine to cure a deadly disease undoubtedly provides a valuable service to society, but he eats food, uses energy, and relies on the various services of his government and fellow man without producing anything tangible to provide in return. Now multiply that idea by all the researchers, civil servants, military personnel, businessmen, etc.

Sure, if everyone could be trusted to play nicely with each other's 'wealth', AND we were all forced to become farmers and factory workers (the "proletariat" that radical socialism/communism was aimed at in the first place) then maybe such an ill-conceived system could work.

[F-Gattaca]

Just to send the topic flow back up a river a mile or two ...

Am I missing something about Touros?

In my quest to gather up Tears of Light for my striking PM, I've been picking up a lot of them. Rather than selling them to a shopkeeper, I've had my PM take care of it; the sellback value is 175 meseta, but my PM hocks them for 300.

They sell like hotcakes.

I'm somewhat unnerved.

After I sold roughly 6 or so in one go, I checked to see if the Touros are sold elsewhere on the market ...

It turns out the person who bought all six is the only other seller, and in fact is resellling them for 35000 meseta apiece.

Gawha?

[Mystil]

Touro.. Is that the big red japanese street light type thing? I got one in my room and had it for several months now lol.

[Shadow_Wing]

No it's a pot.

[Jakosifer]

I thought Tsubo was the pot? >_>

[Mystil]

Oh that thing. I got two of those in my room, by the window.

[Raine_Loire]

Yeah touros is the big red lamp with the scrolly letters around the light. I doubt they are going to get 35 k for those... O.o