To underpowered classes : A tip

[Addark]

I just spent the last thirty minutes browsing various guides and other topics, looking for a little advice on a variety of things, and very few things were answered for me.
I did, however, notice a gigantic trend - half of the threads, no matter what they were about, ended up in some bitchfest about how "Sega hates techers," "xx type is sooo underpowered," "xx type is WAY TOO STRONG," "Fighgunners are stupid."

My advice to you :
If your class is "underpowered," why haven't you switched? If I wasn't having fun I'd stop what I was doing and change my type, or if I had to, my character. I recently restarted my Fortetecher as a Guntecher simply because FT was not fun. Why is it a problem for anybody else who complains about their "shit class?"

For the "xx is way too strong," have you actually played that type? Some people just know how to use it correctly, which isn't a crime at all. It's often just research and knowing how to utilize attacks and weapons. Yeah, Fortefighters do thousands of damage to ONE enemy, while Fortetechers can do thousands to an entire group. Gidiga?

I know there's no sense in arguing the "Sega hates techers" thing, but do you really think whining about it on a fan site forum is going to change anything? All it's doing is annoying everybody else. D:

I really wonder where the Fighgunner stereotype came from, too. o_O My closest friend in-game is a Fighgunner.. and.. he's not anything like what everybody claims fiGs are.

Whatever happened to being pleasant? D:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Addark on 2007-12-05 08:32 ]</font>

[Broodstar1337]

On 2007-12-05 08:26, Addark wrote:
If your class is "underpowered," why haven't you switched? If I wasn't having fun I'd stop what I was doing and change my type, or if I had to, my character. I recently restarted my Fortetecher as a Guntecher simply because FT was not fun. Why is it a problem for anybody else who complains about their "shit class?"

I played the most underpowered class in the game, Fortetecher, for the longest time until AOI came out when I switched to AT. You know, that class that singlehandedly put FT on life support because AT is at least half-decent at dealing damage and out-supports FTs, leaving FTs with no strengths over anybody else. So we switched our classes. Doesn't mean the class that we just ditched doesn't suck ass anymore. Besides, if everyone just "switched their class" to keep from bitching about everyone else's class, you'd see a whole lot of people playing the same classes, which is pretty much what we got going on right now.


For the "xx is way too strong," have you actually played that type? Some people just know how to use it correctly, which isn't a crime at all. It's often just research and knowing how to utilize attacks and weapons. Yeah, Fortefighters do thousands of damage to ONE enemy, while Fortetechers can do thousands to an entire group. Gidiga?

You don't have to play that type. All you gotta do is watch a guy with a slicer rip through an entire fucking mob with ONE FUCKING PA COMBO. I can't even believe we're arguing this; do you pay attention to what goes on around you in the game? Hunter classes are overpowered. Enemies are retardedly underpowered. Your FT argument doesn't hold a candle because it takes a force spell after spell to match the kind of damage a FF can dish out with one attack.


I know there's no sense in arguing the "Sega hates techers" thing, but do you really think whining about it on a fan site forum is going to change anything? All it's doing is annoying everybody else. D:

Hard to believe Sonic Team wouldn't accept feedback from some of it's largest fan communities. It's the reason why we even got all these changes to begin with. Yes, places like this helped make AOI what it is now.


I really wonder where the Fighgunner stereotype came from, too. o_O My closest friend in-game is a Fighgunner.. and.. he's not anything like what everybody claims fiGs are.

One against many.

[Lamak]

Fortefighter, Acrotecher, Fortegunner. That is all the game needs. Everything else, is optional.

[amtalx]

Your optimistic attitude is refreshing...and sure to be dashed against the jagged coast of reality if you continue to frequent this forum. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

It's not the responsibility of players to switch class/race because ST doesn't see fit to balance the gameplay. My main is a ranger because I don't like the "durrr" gameplay of being a fighter. If ST chose to hate on my class (which they haven't ,thankfully), "switch to fighter" as a solution is ridiculous. That's not a far cry from having one class that is superior to the rest and just saying "well all the other classes suck, lets all change to [insert best class]".

As for "[insert best class] is too strong", some claims are ridiculous and others are pretty valid. It's one thing to use a class the way it was intended. It's another when using that class as intended eclipses everything about all the other classes. Honestly though, the classes are pretty well balanced. It's just that some of the weaponry needs adjustment. Oh, and Fortefighters can to thousands of damage to UNLIMITED targets now. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Addark]

I've never seen a single "stupid" Fighgunner. The biggest n00bs I've seen have been either Fortefighters and in one instance, a Wartecher.

Anybody that spams a Slicer combo isn't playing the class, they're spamming the move, and why would that be any more acceptable?

I played the most underpowered class in the game, Fortetecher, for the longest time until AOI came out when I switched to AT. You know, that class that singlehandedly put FT on life support because AT is at least half-decent at dealing damage and out-supports FTs, leaving FTs with no strengths over anybody else. So we switched our classes. Doesn't mean the class that we just ditched doesn't suck ass anymore. Besides, if everyone just "switched their class" to keep from bitching about everyone else's class, you'd see a whole lot of people playing the same classes, which is pretty much what we got going on right now.

Who is "we?" All the people I saw whining about how ATs are better than FTs were still FTs, according to their signature stats.
If we really do have so many people playing the same few classes like you said, why is this so widespread, then?

#2 Posted: 2007-12-05 08:41

Quote:
On 2007-12-05 08:26, Addark wrote:
If your class is "underpowered," why haven't you switched? If I wasn't having fun I'd stop what I was doing and change my type, or if I had to, my character. I recently restarted my Fortetecher as a Guntecher simply because FT was not fun. Why is it a problem for anybody else who complains about their "shit class?"



I played the most underpowered class in the game, Fortetecher, for the longest time until AOI came out when I switched to AT. You know, that class that singlehandedly put FT on life support because AT is at least half-decent at dealing damage and out-supports FTs, leaving FTs with no strengths over anybody else. So we switched our classes. Doesn't mean the class that we just ditched doesn't suck ass anymore. Besides, if everyone just "switched their class" to keep from bitching about everyone else's class, you'd see a whole lot of people playing the same classes, which is pretty much what we got going on right now.

Quote:
For the "xx is way too strong," have you actually played that type? Some people just know how to use it correctly, which isn't a crime at all. It's often just research and knowing how to utilize attacks and weapons. Yeah, Fortefighters do thousands of damage to ONE enemy, while Fortetechers can do thousands to an entire group. Gidiga?



You don't have to play that type. All you gotta do is watch a guy with a slicer rip through an entire fucking mob with ONE FUCKING PA COMBO. I can't even believe we're arguing this; do you pay attention to what goes on around you in the game? Hunter classes are overpowered. Enemies are retardedly underpowered. Your FT argument doesn't hold a candle because it takes a force spell after spell to match the kind of damage a FF can dish out with one attack.


[i]Hard to believe Sonic Team wouldn't accept feedback from some of it's largest fan communities. It's the reason why we even got all these changes to begin with. Yes, places like this helped make AOI what it is now.

"Fortetechers should have an edge in MST over Acrotechers" seems to be feedback, not "SEGA HATES TECHERS!" which is what I'm talking about. Just people whining, and not giving any feedback.



...
Wtf, my copypasta totally broke this somehow. o__o And I gotta go to class.

By the way, I'm not trying to start some bitchfest here, either. D: I'm honestly curious as to how people think bitching in other threads will actually help things.

[Zorafim]

Some people prefer the style of a class to another. I know I wouldn't stand to switch out of my fF to play as a class I didn't like (Even as fortegunners got overpowered, I wouldn't touch it). It might not be fair that one class is more useful than another, but that doesn't stop the less useful class from being more fun.

By the way, why do we need fortegunners?

[RadiantLegend]

Because we get srank rifles

I know "Killer Elite" is a fG's dream.

[Laranas]

I just wish people stopped going "..." or "why?" when I say I'm going Wartecher.

[Fornever]

The only thing they need to do is make the slicer PA a little weaker which they're doing, and making it hit like 3 targets as it did in PSO (which is reasonable, slicers are amazing right now). They should prolly also nurf majarra a bit, so not only can other classes be a choice, but FF can use other weapons more often.

I agree that FT is weak and should be stronger, but I think making techs being able to hit a large enemy multiple times is kinda cheap, so I say multy hitting techs should be able to hit as many targets as they do now with the concept of being able to hit a large enemy more then once, but multy hitting techs should be somewhat nurfed.

Range weapons I've never used too much but I saw someone doing about 700 per shottie bullet with my lvl 31+ buffs. Thats like 3.5k damage right there. As far as Im concerned I think range classes are doing ok with their high SEs and ability to not get surrounded by enemys. I guess handguns should be stronger? (Edit) I forgot about lasers, those should be faster and stronger lol

There you go, balanced enough for some pvp



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Fornever on 2007-12-05 09:09 ]</font>

[RadiantLegend]

<_< gravity break even without JA will OHK in a pvp.

[Kinako78]

On 2007-12-05 08:41, Broodstar1337 wrote:

I really wonder where the Fighgunner stereotype came from, too. o_O My closest friend in-game is a Fighgunner.. and.. he's not anything like what everybody claims fiGs are.

One against many.


Two against many. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Lamak]

Fortegunner is argueably the best class in the game. High level gun bullets to hit air enemies and a little bit of melee for big enemies. Also they can SE stuffs. ;//

[amtalx]

On 2007-12-05 08:50, Zorafim wrote:

By the way, why do we need fortegunners?



For now? We don't. A group of fighters with an Acrotecher to buff and heal is where it's at.

EOF

[Rashiid]

On 2007-12-05 08:59, Laranas wrote:
I just wish people stopped going "..." or "why?" when I say I'm going Wartecher.



But why would y-

Ohwait.....

I'd rather have a WT in the party then a PT. Go Wartechs!!

[Kinako78]

On 2007-12-05 09:15, Rashiid wrote:

On 2007-12-05 08:59, Laranas wrote:
I just wish people stopped going "..." or "why?" when I say I'm going Wartecher.



But why would y-

Ohwait.....

I'd rather have a WT in the party then a PT. Go Wartechs!!



Which brings up a question. Why do people like Protransers? I'm not hating on them. I just wanna know.

[amtalx]

On 2007-12-05 09:21, Kinako78 wrote:

Which brings up a question. Why do people like Protransers? I'm not hating on them. I just wanna know.



Weapon variety, and EX traps are smexy.

[Soulless]

May I ask what the FiGu stereotyp is? After getting several other classes to 15 I plan to get back to figu, am I a bad person then? Oo

[Kinako78]

On 2007-12-05 09:22, amtalx wrote:

On 2007-12-05 09:21, Kinako78 wrote:

Which brings up a question. Why do people like Protransers? I'm not hating on them. I just wanna know.



Weapon variety, and EX traps are smexy.



Yes, they are. (for feeding to my Ranged PM http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif)

[Rashiid]

On 2007-12-05 09:25, Soulless wrote:
May I ask what the FiGu stereotyp is? After getting several other classes to 15 I plan to get back to figu, am I a bad person then? Oo




N00bsabers,
Usually have low % weaps,
Use pistols on normal creatures, then n00bsabers on Jarba, yada yada....

[Kinako78]

I use ice weapons on Jarba. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif If it happens to be a doublesaber (which mine isn't: I have one dark and one light), then so be it.

[Kelvie]

On 2007-12-05 09:10, Lamak wrote:
Fortegunner is argueably the best class in the game. High level gun bullets to hit air enemies and a little bit of melee for big enemies. Also they can SE stuffs. ;//



Thanks to the new bullet cap for them, fighgunners merge melee and bullet a lot better than fortegunners.
Oh, and Protansers do that even better.

[JAFO22000]

Why'd they even come out with other classes? They should've just kept Hunter, Ranger and Force.

Hunters=Highest ATP/DEF, S-rank all melee weapons, A-rank quick range weapons and A-rank Wands and Madoogs

Rangers=Highest ATA/EVP, S-rank all ranged weapons, A-rank single handed melee and A-rank Wands and Madoogs

Forces=Highest TP/MST, S-rank all tech weapons, A-rank bow, cards, whips, daggers, twin daggers sabers.

I mean, if everyone is only going to play the three "best" classes in the game, why even make other classes?

BTW, as most people can't read sarcasm, this post is totally facetious.

[Kinako78]

Which would be why I picked Fighgunner for Siara in the first place way back before AoI even came out. I like some variety in my fighting style.

[Pillan]

On 2007-12-05 09:32, JAFO22000 wrote:
Why'd they even come out with other classes? They should've just kept Hunter, Ranger and Force.

Hunters=Highest ATP/DEF, S-rank all melee weapons, A-rank quick range weapons and A-rank Wands and Madoogs

Rangers=Highest ATA/EVP, S-rank all ranged weapons, A-rank single handed melee and A-rank Wands and Madoogs

Forces=Highest TP/MST, S-rank all tech weapons, A-rank bow, cards, whips, daggers, twin daggers sabers.

I mean, if everyone is only going to play the three "best" classes in the game, why even make other classes?

BTW, as most people can't read sarcasm, this post is totally facetious.


Because then people would still complain about HU being overpowered and FO being underpowered. Instead of going that route, make one class called Guardian that can use everything to S rank and has all PA caps at 50. I mean, no one can complain if everyone can do everything equally well.

It's not like the class-wars would reduce to a race war or anything silly like that... Oh wait...

[amtalx]

On 2007-12-05 09:41, Pillan wrote:

On 2007-12-05 09:32, JAFO22000 wrote:
Why'd they even come out with other classes? They should've just kept Hunter, Ranger and Force.

Hunters=Highest ATP/DEF, S-rank all melee weapons, A-rank quick range weapons and A-rank Wands and Madoogs

Rangers=Highest ATA/EVP, S-rank all ranged weapons, A-rank single handed melee and A-rank Wands and Madoogs

Forces=Highest TP/MST, S-rank all tech weapons, A-rank bow, cards, whips, daggers, twin daggers sabers.

I mean, if everyone is only going to play the three "best" classes in the game, why even make other classes?

BTW, as most people can't read sarcasm, this post is totally facetious.


Because then people would still complain about HU being overpowered and FO being underpowered. Instead of going that route, make one class called Guardian that can use everything to S rank and has all PA caps at 50. I mean, no one can complain if everyone can do everything equally well.

It's not like the class-wars would reduce to a race war or anything silly like that... Oh wait...




BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LOGIC!! That makes too much sense. Get out.

[Addark]

On 2007-12-05 09:10, Kinako78 wrote:

On 2007-12-05 08:41, Broodstar1337 wrote:

I really wonder where the Fighgunner stereotype came from, too. o_O My closest friend in-game is a Fighgunner.. and.. he's not anything like what everybody claims fiGs are.

One against many.


Two against many. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I switch between FiGu and AF but I figured with the content of my thread I'd be lumped into the "retard FiGu" thing myself.

The point I'm trying to make is that the class is as good as you make it. If your Fortetecher sucks then you're not doing something right. I know a lot of FTs that can solo missions that most others I know have to party.

I dunno. >.> Kinda regretting making this post.

[Pentence]

On 2007-12-05 09:22, amtalx wrote:

On 2007-12-05 09:21, Kinako78 wrote:

Which brings up a question. Why do people like Protransers? I'm not hating on them. I just wanna know.



Weapon variety, and EX traps are smexy.



Simple mate...

EX traps + SUV + S rank sword/nade(depending on monster)=white numbers flying like a mad man

Also i love just makeing enemys fight each other for no reason.Sit back and let them destroay each otehr or EX freeze and tear em up with a sword.Lastly going from bow to shoty for status efect to a sword for area damage makes for quite the combo.

[Zato-2TWO]

Ah I was wondering when Protranser-underestimating would come back. I think we're quite dandy the way things are now, but I'dve never imagined people underestimating us again after we became *so* much more useful than before, what with the huge ATP boost and S-rank weapon upgrade.

Me? I'm all for the weapon selection. Gives me everything I need for optimal house-cleaning as well as single-target damage priority. And a SUV weapon on top of all of that for boss-killing? Sold!

For me though, it's also about playstyle. Sure, you'll get the party of people who are OBVIOUSLY all about numbers-numbers-numbers (*coughcough* full party of Male Beast FFs all wearing starting clothes spamming slicers and Majarra all day *coughcough*), but I have more fun blasting away with PTs wide variety of heavy weapons.

Also, EX traps really are smexy. =D



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zato-2TWO on 2007-12-05 10:15 ]</font>

[Kinako78]

On 2007-12-05 10:05, Pentence wrote:
Also i love just makeing enemys fight each other for no reason.


Oh, yes. I enjoyed doing that with my light bow. *considers buying confuse traps for Siara or Zakuro*

[Pentence]

On 2007-12-05 10:15, Zato-2TWO wrote:
Ah I was wondering when Protranser-underestimating would come back. I think we're quite dandy the way things are now, but I'dve never imagined people underestimating us again after we became *so* much more useful than before, what with the huge ATP boost and S-rank weapon upgrade.

Me? I'm all for the weapon selection. Gives me everything I need for optimal house-cleaning as well as single-target damage priority. And a SUV weapon on top of all of that for boss-killing? Sold!

For me though, it's also about playstyle. Sure, you'll get the party of people who are OBVIOUSLY all about numbers-numbers-numbers (*coughcough* full party of Male Beast FFs all wearing starting clothes spamming slicers and Majarra all day *coughcough*), but I have more fun blasting away with PTs wide variety of heavy weapons.

Also, EX traps really are smexy. =D



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zato-2TWO on 2007-12-05 10:15 ]</font>

*high fives Zato-2TWO*

[JAFO22000]

On 2007-12-05 09:41, Pillan wrote:

Because then people would still complain about HU being overpowered and FO being underpowered. Instead of going that route, make one class called Guardian that can use everything to S rank and has all PA caps at 50. I mean, no one can complain if everyone can do everything equally well.

It's not like the class-wars would reduce to a race war or anything silly like that... Oh wait...



Good point. Then they could take away the race and sex bonuses and we'd get complaints that there is no individuality!!

[MSAksion]

AN AT should NOT be able to outdamage an FT but they do. With a quick unit and AT madoog speed they are more powerful than the "TECH MASTER" the FT.

I went from FT to AT let me share;

1) HP over 1800+ - thats fighter strength.
2) DEF enough to wear 9* tenora - i can't as FT
3) ATP enough to do Whip PA 350-400 per hit in 21hit PA
4) Melee speed up with good ATP to boot for whip saber and knives for close range BUT i thought this was FORCE RANGER?
5) Dual pistols - take that Fortegunners and Guntechers >_>
6) Dual Casting - Wand + Madoog = 2 spells while FT with Staff rod still trying to swing again.
7) insane PP - More PP than a FT with madoog 1000+ and wand 1000+ No rod is that much PP.
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_cool.gif THE BIGGEST OFFENSE my TP only went down about 300 pts. Thats not bad considering that the quick units or just AT speed alone can double an AT Offence plus add range and melee to the mix for the best all round can help in any situation.

So bottom line i went back to FT after getting AT to 11 - i'll be back but BOY they gotta nerf AT or Upgrade FT. I just want my lvl 30 TECHS to be shiny lvl 31+ Spells then i'll go back and AT level my 21+ up to 30.

At least Acrofighters - the only thing wrong with them is the slicer which can be nerfed without destroying the AF class. Using single handed stuff doesn't make them as super powered as say a WT with Claws or an FF with a Broadsword. Acrotechers have command of all 36 TECHs, plus dualies, plus melee, and good melee for small and medium most monsters.

[Turambar]

On 2007-12-05 08:44, Lamak wrote:
Fortefighter, Acrotecher, Fortegunner. That is all the game needs. Everything else, is optional.



Replace FG with GT. Who wants Rifles when all other bullets staggers too?

[amtalx]

On 2007-12-05 10:29, Turambar wrote:

On 2007-12-05 08:44, Lamak wrote:
Fortefighter, Acrotecher, Fortegunner. That is all the game needs. Everything else, is optional.



Replace FG with GT. Who wants Rifles when all other bullets staggers too?



Pass. GT damage is laughable compared to fG.

[Laranas]

On 2007-12-05 10:29, Turambar wrote:

On 2007-12-05 08:44, Lamak wrote:
Fortefighter, Acrotecher, Fortegunner. That is all the game needs. Everything else, is optional.



Replace FG with GT. Who wants Rifles when all other bullets staggers too?

I don't think I've grouped with one GT since I started again.

[Darkly]

I don't see this ending well.

[Finae]

I fail at FF because I spam that slicer pa from time to time. I fail so bad that the group finishes that white beat mission in 10 min and they are happy about that. Hell, I don't even use the slicer on everything. Boy, I sure do suck a ton, I should be using spinning break or something. No wait, I should just be using normal attacks onry.

On a serious note, OP, 6.3k+ x2 jabroga's as Beast M 110/15 FF with 31 buffs on a area of mobs just as other players enter the room, I like to see a Ft do that in a short amount of time. What? You say jabroga takes forever to use? Oh wow, should see me use it then. What about 3k x2 Jabroga on the dragon? Mmm, it take Ft a decade to do all that since hmm.....30,000 dmg per jabroga lol? Now you see why people are whining.

AT vs FT? You really need top of the line FT gear (i.e psycho wand grinded +5 or higher), be a newman F, 40 techs, and have 31+ buffs on ya to outshine a AT imo. Even with 21+ buffs, its just too close for me to tell now that I am pimped out in AT gear. Add in on the fact that you can melee and its pretty good damage if you have a brain and know what PA to use on the mob along with traps and AT is much more versitile, less fragile, and does more overall dps. But, I'd say about 85% of actual AT on the server aren't any good so it doesn't matter lol. I see FT still outdamage At in party just b/c AT suck or vice versa. Just wait until that rod rebalance or w/e these nublets are talkin bout these days http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.

But I don't judge anyone, play the class you like playin. It just seems to me these days atleast on PS2/PC that all people want is to finish the mission fast and care about damage greatly. So if slicer pa kills fast, well I may as well use that since it needs to be lvl 40 anyway http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.

[Turambar]

On 2007-12-05 10:40, amtalx wrote:

On 2007-12-05 10:29, Turambar wrote:

On 2007-12-05 08:44, Lamak wrote:
Fortefighter, Acrotecher, Fortegunner. That is all the game needs. Everything else, is optional.



Replace FG with GT. Who wants Rifles when all other bullets staggers too?



Pass. GT damage is laughable compared to fG.


Cough, x-bows, cough.

[Reginaldo]

Please don't unleash logic onto these forums Addark. The people here are allergic.

[SolRiver]

On 2007-12-05 10:43, Laranas wrote:

On 2007-12-05 10:29, Turambar wrote:

On 2007-12-05 08:44, Lamak wrote:
Fortefighter, Acrotecher, Fortegunner. That is all the game needs. Everything else, is optional.



Replace FG with GT. Who wants Rifles when all other bullets staggers too?

I don't think I've grouped with one GT since I started again.


Omg, now that you mentioned it, I didn't neither.

Where did all the guntecher go? Aside Lumia Waber...

[Aviendha]

AF doesn't do enough damage and will never gain any ground on FI and FF in DPS, so we're the most underpowered melee class right now. Even WT is better because they get spears and whips and S-rank Twin claw. And buffs/healz. AF either needs a huge ATP boost or more S-ranks and lvl 40 Bullets.

[amtalx]

On 2007-12-05 11:02, Turambar wrote:

On 2007-12-05 10:40, amtalx wrote:

On 2007-12-05 10:29, Turambar wrote:

On 2007-12-05 08:44, Lamak wrote:
Fortefighter, Acrotecher, Fortegunner. That is all the game needs. Everything else, is optional.



Replace FG with GT. Who wants Rifles when all other bullets staggers too?



Pass. GT damage is laughable compared to fG.


Cough, x-bows, cough.



Cough, fG have access to them too, and with a higher class ATP/ATA mod. Cough, Shotguns and Laser Cannons both outdamage Xbows. Cough, Laser Cannons have SE3 too. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif If you already have an AT in your party there is really no reason to have a GT.

[Sexy_Raine]

On 2007-12-05 11:33, amtalx wrote:

On 2007-12-05 11:02, Turambar wrote:

On 2007-12-05 10:40, amtalx wrote:

On 2007-12-05 10:29, Turambar wrote:

On 2007-12-05 08:44, Lamak wrote:
Fortefighter, Acrotecher, Fortegunner. That is all the game needs. Everything else, is optional.



Replace FG with GT. Who wants Rifles when all other bullets staggers too?



Pass. GT damage is laughable compared to fG.


Cough, x-bows, cough.



Cough, fG have access to them too, and with a higher class ATP/ATA mod. Cough, Shotguns and Laser Cannons both outdamage Xbows. Cough, Laser Cannons have SE3 too. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif If you already have an AT in your party there is really no reason to have a GT.



Lets not forgot Boma duranga kills any damage a GT could ever dish out.

[CelestialBlade]

Oh, again with this "GT sucks solely because of damage" crap.

Lawl.

[Rayokarna]

On 2007-12-05 11:37, Sexy_Raine wrote:

On 2007-12-05 11:33, amtalx wrote:

On 2007-12-05 11:02, Turambar wrote:

On 2007-12-05 10:40, amtalx wrote:

On 2007-12-05 10:29, Turambar wrote:

On 2007-12-05 08:44, Lamak wrote:
Fortefighter, Acrotecher, Fortegunner. That is all the game needs. Everything else, is optional.



Replace FG with GT. Who wants Rifles when all other bullets staggers too?



Pass. GT damage is laughable compared to fG.


Cough, x-bows, cough.



Cough, fG have access to them too, and with a higher class ATP/ATA mod. Cough, Shotguns and Laser Cannons both outdamage Xbows. Cough, Laser Cannons have SE3 too. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif If you already have an AT in your party there is really no reason to have a GT.



Lets not forgot Boma duranga kills any damage a GT could ever dish out.



last nail in the coffin right there.

[Aviendha]

On 2007-12-05 11:37, Sexy_Raine wrote:
Lets not forgot Boma duranga kills any damage a GT could ever dish out.


Lets not forget that Boma Duranga knocks everything everywhere and is obnoxious to use on most mobs. On bosses, yes fG is better damage (but not as good as Jabroni) but GT can keep everyone healthy during the boss fight.

[amtalx]

On 2007-12-05 11:40, Typheros wrote:
Oh, again with this "GT sucks solely because of damage" crap.

Lawl.



Nah, I like GT. Thinking of switching myself. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif But my point was that if there is an AT in the party, the GT is pretty much stuck playing 29837498th fiddle to the ATs buffs/heals so they would be better off with the extra attack power of a fG.

[JAFO22000]

On 2007-12-05 11:27, Reginaldo wrote:
Please don't unleash logic onto these forums Addark. The people here are allergic.



If you believe that the OP's first post was at all logical, you are an idiot.

His line of thinking is "Why question anything? Just do what everybody else is doing and you'll be happy!" Anyone care for a lobotomy?

Just because some disagree with the handling of the Acrotecher job class doesn't mean we're "whining" about it. It just stinks that it made another class obsolete. It is also why this is considered a "noob" class, much like slicer spam is a "noob" weapon.

Yea! Some guy in a post above says that with slicer spam, they can clear WB S in 10 minutes. Anyone can switch to Acrofighter and learn the slicer PA, level it and do the same. Why don't we all do this? Because some of us like to have a bit of a challenge. Challenge is fun. Challenge is why we play games like this. I'm sure most would get pretty bored pretty easily if all the missions played like C runs and you could easily run through them paying only the slightest of attention to the game.

[CelestialBlade]

That AT can't be everywhere at one time. I party almost exclusively with an AT now and I still bring quite a bit of worth to the party. Who's gonna do the healing when the AT's frozen and nobody else is around to heal?

I still don't see that huge of a gap in damage, anyway. We can easily hold our own.

And on the Durenga note, it's not all that great for regular enemies. GT can't keep up with it on bosses, but Cards/Twin Handguns do more than enough damage. I have no trouble soloing bosses.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Typheros on 2007-12-05 11:53 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

Talking about who does more damage is pretty pointless...
* If you're a fighter at all, you do enough that it should be your main job in a team.
* If you're not a fighter, you will do more damage by using offensive skills to prevent your team's fighters from missing or getting interrupted than you will by attacking for maximum damage.

In a smaller team, like three people, it starts to matter what class you really are instead of which side of the "fighter" line you landed on.

[physic]

I notice in games there becomes trends of logic that become the new way of thinking, even if the idea itself is pretty foolish and inaccurate.
And old one is doublesabers suck, and equal noobness: totally illogical they are a weapon that has specific uses, yes even tornado dance is usefull, and how can a weapon make someone a noob, whether you use doublesabers or spears i dont see how noobness actually comes into play

Current one: OMG SLICERS ARE THE ULTIMATE POWER OF MAN NEEDS 2ND NERF NOW = really pretty people who want to comment should play as a class that uses it, just watching people doesnt give you the whole story. Slicer isnt the 2nd coming, it puts out pretty numbers and its flashy, thats about it. Unless you line up the mobs for the FF it isnt gonna be that hax. the dmg of 1.5k then 2.4 then 2.4 has to be achieved like this reg attack just attack just attack wait for second hit. you cant move much during this time at all, if you block or get knocked down you never see the big numbers. fact is in a party even with slicer, stuff is dead before i can tag it it, from Fortegunners and fortetechers and fg and blah blah

Heres a hint for "underpowered" classes, stop hating on other jobs, play your chr because you enjoy that chr, I been a FF as long as its been out, and yeah we were one of the weaker classes unless we bought all 50% gears, i still prefered playstyle of FF over anything else so i kept playing.
If you are a fortecher and you want to have best support in the game, melee and have high speed, then uhhh your problem isnt that fortecher sucks, your problem is you always wanted to be an acrotecher, go be that. People i know who stayed FT prefer the bigger dmg numbers and teh flashy powers and knowing they do the best tech dmg in the game, they dont want to use a whip or twin handguns, they want to to do magic and do dmg.

I dont know why you want FT who has resta debuffs buffs revive abilities and dmg techs to be the best at everything but i hope that doesnt happen
I dont know why you want to make the slicer into a useless crap weapon no one uses, other than so you can feel stronger by comparison, but hey dont eff up my game cause your a punk

[Pengfishh]

No nails. Guntecher is a hybrid class, therefore is more useful than a damage monster. The only Guntecher I know is walking Dimate+, capable of buffing, debuffing, and throwing SEs all over the place.

Guntecher is best played as a support class. Otherwise, why not just go to Fortegunner? Although, I'm none too happy about Acrotecher getting exclusive level 40 support. They seem the last class that ought to be supporting, considering their propensity for dishing out pain. But whatever.

Whatever, okay?!

[Addark]

On 2007-12-05 11:51, JAFO22000 wrote:

On 2007-12-05 11:27, Reginaldo wrote:
Please don't unleash logic onto these forums Addark. The people here are allergic.

If you believe that the OP's first post was at all logical, you are an idiot.

His line of thinking is "Why question anything? Just do what everybody else is doing and you'll be happy!" Anyone care for a lobotomy?

Just because some disagree with the handling of the Acrotecher job class doesn't mean we're "whining" about it. It just stinks that it made another class obsolete. It is also why this is considered a "noob" class, much like slicer spam is a "noob" weapon.

Yea! Some guy in a post above says that with slicer spam, they can clear WB S in 10 minutes. Anyone can switch to Acrofighter and learn the slicer PA, level it and do the same. Why don't we all do this? Because some of us like to have a bit of a challenge. Challenge is fun. Challenge is why we play games like this. I'm sure most would get pretty bored pretty easily if all the missions played like C runs and you could easily run through them paying only the slightest of attention to the game.I'm a girl.

I said nothing that Acros were n00bs in the least so I don't know where that's coming from. o_O


I'm questioning things, So why would you say I'm asking why questioning? What I'm complaining about is the straight-up WHINING I saw all over the place this morning. Namely the "SEGA HATES TECHERS!!!1" crap I saw everywhere. Even in a thread that had nothing at all to do with classes... it was about drop rates.

Also, that was somewhat ironic. Basically, if you're going to whine about how every other class is better than yours, I was sort of asking, what's the point? You do nothing but complain about your own class but do nothing about it, except.. complain.
The game's meant to be fun and those people obviously aren't if they can't even enjoy their class without being full of spite.

Jesus. I wasn't honestly advocating switching classes. ;[

[Addark]

On 2007-12-05 11:59, Pengfishh wrote:
No nails. Guntecher is a hybrid class, therefore is more useful than a damage monster. The only Guntecher I know is walking Dimate+, capable of buffing, debuffing, and throwing SEs all over the place.

Guntecher is best played as a support class. Otherwise, why not just go to Fortegunner? Although, I'm none too happy about Acrotecher getting exclusive level 40 support. They seem the last class that ought to be supporting, considering their propensity for dishing out pain. But whatever.

Whatever, okay?!

The only guy I know that can solo missions - and quickly, sometimes faster than myself in a small group - is a Guntecher. It's a FABULOUS class as long as you know how to use it, and most people don't, which is why everybody believes they suck.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Acrotecher's pretty good at supporting because of its tech casting speed boost, so they can resta during emergencies and such. Wartecher's more of the job that isn't suited to support because of its ability to dish out pain IMO, it has better melee and its nukes aren't that much weaker, although they miss out on the speed boost and somewhat less TP.

[MrNomad]

On 2007-12-05 11:57, physic wrote:
I notice in games there becomes trends of logic that become the new way of thinking, even if the idea itself is pretty foolish and inaccurate.
And old one is doublesabers suck, and equal noobness: totally illogical they are a weapon that has specific uses, yes even tornado dance is usefull, and how can a weapon make someone a noob, whether you use doublesabers or spears i dont see how noobness actually comes into play

Current one: OMG SLICERS ARE THE ULTIMATE POWER OF MAN NEEDS 2ND NERF NOW = really pretty people who want to comment should play as a class that uses it, just watching people doesnt give you the whole story. Slicer isnt the 2nd coming, it puts out pretty numbers and its flashy, thats about it. Unless you line up the mobs for the FF it isnt gonna be that hax. the dmg of 1.5k then 2.4 then 2.4 has to be achieved like this reg attack just attack just attack wait for second hit. you cant move much during this time at all, if you block or get knocked down you never see the big numbers. fact is in a party even with slicer, stuff is dead before i can tag it it, from Fortegunners and fortetechers and fg and blah blah

Heres a hint for "underpowered" classes, stop hating on other jobs, play your chr because you enjoy that chr, I been a FF as long as its been out, and yeah we were one of the weaker classes unless we bought all 50% gears, i still prefered playstyle of FF over anything else so i kept playing.
If you are a fortecher and you want to have best support in the game, melee and have high speed, then uhhh your problem isnt that fortecher sucks, your problem is you always wanted to be an acrotecher, go be that. People i know who stayed FT prefer the bigger dmg numbers and teh flashy powers and knowing they do the best tech dmg in the game, they dont want to use a whip or twin handguns, they want to to do magic and do dmg.

I dont know why you want FT who has resta debuffs buffs revive abilities and dmg techs to be the best at everything but i hope that doesnt happen
I dont know why you want to make the slicer into a useless crap weapon no one uses, other than so you can feel stronger by comparison, but hey dont eff up my game cause your a punk

When did people start hating on doublesabers? Yeah, my fav weapon on my main is a 30% Ice Crea Doubles 4/6. Does it make you bitches look bad when I can run in and kill 2 S2 monsters in less than 5 seconds using my Spiral Dance, meanwhile you're just spreading 450 dmg around with your guns and spells? No offense, but my dmg rocks, and I'm gonna rock on you morons! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[JAFO22000]

On 2007-12-05 12:17, MrNomad wrote:
When did people start hating on doublesabers? Yeah, my fav weapon on my main is a 30% Ice Crea Doubles 4/6. Does it make you bitches look bad when I can run in and kill 2 S2 monsters in less than 5 seconds using my Spiral Dance, meanwhile you're just spreading 450 dmg around with your guns and spells? No offense, but my dmg rocks, and I'm gonna rock on you morons! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



I can kill "2 S2 monsters" in less than 5 seconds too! Those Ageetas on Mizuraki Defense sure are easy!

[Addark]

People have hated on double sabers since I started playing back in July. o.o

[amtalx]

People hate Doube Sabers because of most noobs choosing FG and then spamming them because they "look sweet!" Then Tornado Dance came along and killed 1000 kittens.

[Turambar]

Double saber hate started because of tornado dance spammage. Even if thats not as true now, the hate continues.

[erickarim]

ima AoE-FT

thing is: the way the game is played, theres not really a good use for me. since everything drops soo fast. it doesn't really matter if my dsp is the highest. damage output is very high compared to monster hp.

most FT load a quick unit ( usualy me ) a mixed rod and cast. witch is weak. but if they are having fun. let them be.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-12-05 12:06, Shiroryuu wrote:
Acrotecher's pretty good at supporting because of its tech casting speed boost, so they can resta during emergencies and such. Wartecher's more of the job that isn't suited to support because of its ability to dish out pain IMO, it has better melee and its nukes aren't that much weaker, although they miss out on the speed boost and somewhat less TP.


OMG WARTECHER OUTNUKES FORTETECHER TOO?!?! THE APOCALYPSE!!!

Yeah, the fortetecher whining on this board is deafening. Every thread will eventually be hijacked by BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Honestly, I felt bad for the FT's complaining until realizing that they're doing damage about on par with my Protranser's melee with close-combat techs and beating his guns with ranged techs. That's solidly middle-tier, and characters who can support and deal ranged AOE damage / SE don't deserve to go past that. You don't get versatility AND the win button.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-12-05 12:57 ]</font>

[Aviendha]

On 2007-12-05 12:28, Turambar wrote:
Double saber hate started because of tornado dance spammage. Even if thats not as true now, the hate continues.


Noobgunners existed and were irritating before Tornado Dance, it was just the final nail in the coffin of FI ever not being viewed as a noob class. Half the reason I quit FI was being associated with easily the largest group of idiots in PSU (not that there aren't tons of people playing every class badly, just WAY more FIs). I just booted a FI yesterday because he wouldn't stop spamming Tornado on everything. On another note, FFs with Jabroni are almost as bad these days...

[MrNomad]

On 2007-12-05 12:21, JAFO22000 wrote:

On 2007-12-05 12:17, MrNomad wrote:
When did people start hating on doublesabers? Yeah, my fav weapon on my main is a 30% Ice Crea Doubles 4/6. Does it make you bitches look bad when I can run in and kill 2 S2 monsters in less than 5 seconds using my Spiral Dance, meanwhile you're just spreading 450 dmg around with your guns and spells? No offense, but my dmg rocks, and I'm gonna rock on you morons! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



I can kill "2 S2 monsters" in less than 5 seconds too! Those Ageetas on Mizuraki Defense sure are easy!

Lol, of course Jafo comes along and takes something out of context. When I say monsters I say varhas, vandas and space cows. As for the rat species, its more like less than 2 secs http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Sexy_Raine]

On 2007-12-05 12:32, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-12-05 12:06, Shiroryuu wrote:
Acrotecher's pretty good at supporting because of its tech casting speed boost, so they can resta during emergencies and such. Wartecher's more of the job that isn't suited to support because of its ability to dish out pain IMO, it has better melee and its nukes aren't that much weaker, although they miss out on the speed boost and somewhat less TP.


OMG WARTECHER OUTNUKES FORTETECHER TOO?!?! THE APOCALYPSE!!!

Yeah, the fortetecher whining on this board is deafening. Every thread will eventually be hijacked by BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Honestly, I felt bad for the FT's complaining until realizing that they're doing damage about on par with my Protranser's melee with close-combat techs and beating his guns with ranged techs.

That's solidly middle-tier, and characters who can support and deal ranged AOE damage / SE don't deserve to go past that.



LOL, tech damage is useless. FT is useless. People should quit fucking defending it. 99% of you hunters never put yourselves in our shoes. The system is broke, don't argue with it.

[MrNomad]

On 2007-12-05 12:52, Sexy_Raine wrote:

On 2007-12-05 12:32, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-12-05 12:06, Shiroryuu wrote:
Acrotecher's pretty good at supporting because of its tech casting speed boost, so they can resta during emergencies and such. Wartecher's more of the job that isn't suited to support because of its ability to dish out pain IMO, it has better melee and its nukes aren't that much weaker, although they miss out on the speed boost and somewhat less TP.


OMG WARTECHER OUTNUKES FORTETECHER TOO?!?! THE APOCALYPSE!!!

Yeah, the fortetecher whining on this board is deafening. Every thread will eventually be hijacked by BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Honestly, I felt bad for the FT's complaining until realizing that they're doing damage about on par with my Protranser's melee with close-combat techs and beating his guns with ranged techs.

That's solidly middle-tier, and characters who can support and deal ranged AOE damage / SE don't deserve to go past that.



LOL, tech damage is useless. FT is useless. People should quit fucking defending it. 99% of you hunters never put yourselves in our shoes. The system is broke, don't argue with it.

So hurtful and yet so ture sometimes > > Wait till S2 and S3 AoI missions, then we'll see if fT becomse more useful :3



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MrNomad on 2007-12-05 12:55 ]</font>

[SolomonGrundy]

Honestly, I felt bad for the FT's complaining until realizing that they're doing damage about on par with my Protranser's melee with close-combat techs and beating his guns with ranged techs.

That's solidly middle-tier, and characters who can support and deal ranged AOE damage / SE don't deserve to go past that.

except PTs have better HP, and DFP than FTs, giving them better survive-ability.

The AoI update fixed some stuff, it also broke some other stuff.

Melee is overpowered now, and pp regen is insane. I went from using 2-4 photon charges on a weapon for an S2 mission to using nono.

Armor no longer functions

some basic tenets are broken (DoTs no longer really a factor, for instance).

[SolRiver]

On 2007-12-05 12:54, MrNomad wrote:

On 2007-12-05 12:52, Sexy_Raine wrote:

On 2007-12-05 12:32, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-12-05 12:06, Shiroryuu wrote:
Acrotecher's pretty good at supporting because of its tech casting speed boost, so they can resta during emergencies and such. Wartecher's more of the job that isn't suited to support because of its ability to dish out pain IMO, it has better melee and its nukes aren't that much weaker, although they miss out on the speed boost and somewhat less TP.


OMG WARTECHER OUTNUKES FORTETECHER TOO?!?! THE APOCALYPSE!!!

Yeah, the fortetecher whining on this board is deafening. Every thread will eventually be hijacked by BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Honestly, I felt bad for the FT's complaining until realizing that they're doing damage about on par with my Protranser's melee with close-combat techs and beating his guns with ranged techs.

That's solidly middle-tier, and characters who can support and deal ranged AOE damage / SE don't deserve to go past that.



LOL, tech damage is useless. FT is useless. People should quit fucking defending it. 99% of you hunters never put yourselves in our shoes. The system is broke, don't argue with it.

So hurtful and yet so ture sometimes > > Wait till S2 and S3 AoI missions, then we'll see if fT becomse more useful :3



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MrNomad on 2007-12-05 12:55 ]</font>


If PSU follow the same course without change then added with S2 S3 missions, we will see a PSO remake.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-12-05 12:55, SolomonGrundy wrote:
PTs have better HP, and DFP than FTs, giving them better survive-ability.

The AoI update fixed some stuff, it also broke some other stuff.

Melee is overpowered now, and pp regen is insane. I went from using 2-4 photon charges on a weapon for an S2 mission to using nono.

Armor no longer functions

some basic tenets are broken (DoTs no longer really a factor, for instance).


... and FT can heal and buff and debuff and their primary damage (techs vs guns) is better. That's called "class balance". I have some things they don't, they have some things I don't.

If you're doing enough normal attacks that you don't need charges, have you ever thought that maybe you're putting some brakes on your "overpowered" melee DPS? I've gone from spamming PA almost exclusively to using as many normal combo hits as I can get away with between PA's... and roughing up the last target left in any fight just with normal attacks for photon refill. That's some low-ass damage output, but I'm like the only person in the world okay with taking it slow to save on consumables. If I wanted to spam PA's for maximum DPS I'd blow through like 10 charges a block.

DOTs were major damage and everyone bitched about how a gunner with a 1* rifle could go and deal competitive damage, and how fire bullets could outdamage everything else even on wrong element. Now DOTs are more like a minor damage add, and someone's complaining that they're unimportant. WTF? Pick a side and stay there.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-12-05 13:31 ]</font>

[Addark]

On 2007-12-05 13:05, SolRiver wrote:

On 2007-12-05 12:54, MrNomad wrote:

On 2007-12-05 12:52, Sexy_Raine wrote:

On 2007-12-05 12:32, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-12-05 12:06, Shiroryuu wrote:
Acrotecher's pretty good at supporting because of its tech casting speed boost, so they can resta during emergencies and such. Wartecher's more of the job that isn't suited to support because of its ability to dish out pain IMO, it has better melee and its nukes aren't that much weaker, although they miss out on the speed boost and somewhat less TP.


OMG WARTECHER OUTNUKES FORTETECHER TOO?!?! THE APOCALYPSE!!!

Yeah, the fortetecher whining on this board is deafening. Every thread will eventually be hijacked by BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Honestly, I felt bad for the FT's complaining until realizing that they're doing damage about on par with my Protranser's melee with close-combat techs and beating his guns with ranged techs.

That's solidly middle-tier, and characters who can support and deal ranged AOE damage / SE don't deserve to go past that.



LOL, tech damage is useless. FT is useless. People should quit fucking defending it. 99% of you hunters never put yourselves in our shoes. The system is broke, don't argue with it.

So hurtful and yet so ture sometimes > > Wait till S2 and S3 AoI missions, then we'll see if fT becomse more useful :3



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MrNomad on 2007-12-05 12:55 ]</font>


If PSU follow the same course without change then added with S2 S3 missions, we will see a PSO remake.

Except this game is updated and changed.

[Sebrof56]

Oh my god stop trying to start a flame war! We all like a class by opinion. Yes, its ok to express your opinion about a class but dont go off with "every fighgunner sucks" or "fortetechers should go acro" I mean what the hell?

[xennec]

On 2007-12-05 17:03, Sebrof56 wrote:
Oh my god stop trying to start a flame war! We all like a class by opinion. Yes, its ok to express your opinion about a class but dont go off with "every fighgunner sucks" or "fortetechers should go acro" I mean what the hell?

[Dhylec]

The end.