"Support" teching?

[Sgt_Shligger]

I got into a small argument at the definition of "support teching." Am I supporting as a GT if I don't buff or debuff? Is Resta and Reverser alone enough for me to be "support teching?"

[Pengfishh]

You're doing a service to your fellow Guardians by using Resta and Reverser. And if you do it often, you're a saint in my eyes.

[Xen1]

yea its support teching.

[Shadow_Wing]

You are supporting, but not to ur fullest supporting potential.

[Zorafim]

If you're using resta, you're healing. If you're using buffs, you're supporting. If you're using reverser, you'd a better supporter than I am.
Use debuffs only if you want to go the whole nine yards.

[Wallin]

On 2007-12-05 20:21, Shadow_Wing wrote:
You are supporting, but not to ur fullest supporting potential.



I think this statement said it pretty well, at least in my opinion.

[jayster]

atleast you're not an Acrotecher who goes AT for whips. I swear that 97% of Acrotechers don't have / use buffs at all and heal only when they're almost dead.

[Jife_Jifremok]

I think you are supporting, even if it's only one support thing you're doing. Then again, this is coming from someone who calls Boma Maga and Mayalee Fury/Prism support. (I just think keeping an enemy on chains is a more creative form of support than a single button and nigh-instant "lol ur stats r down", "lol ur stats buff" and "i heal u thank me dammit", but I digress.)

[beatrixkiddo]

AT is only for the whips, duh.

[Broodstar1337]

On 2007-12-05 20:26, Zorafim wrote:
If you're using resta, you're healing. If you're using buffs, you're supporting. If you're using reverser, you'd a better supporter than I am.
Use debuffs only if you want to go the whole nine yards.



To hell with the whole nine yards. I want my cut of the exp before slicer n00bs gobble everyone up.

[MrNomad]

To me, support isn't just Restas and buffs, it's also using techs like razonde or rabarta to flinch mobs, to freeze them, to add total dmg up etc. Hunters move in and tank the mobs, techers and rangers go around flinching and causing SE to keep them pinned down http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Wallin]

On 2007-12-05 20:54, MrNomad wrote:
...it's also using techs like razonde or rabarta to flinch mobs, to freeze them, to add total dmg up etc. Hunters move in and tank the mobs, techers and rangers go around flinching and causing SE to keep them pinned down http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



While I don't necessarily disagree with this, isn't that what the 'Gun' portion of the Guntecher is for (in retrospect this might seem like a smartass comment, but as an inexperienced GT, are offensive techs really necessary when you have bullet SEs)? Personally I'm not so sure I would bother with offensive techs since your palette is limited as it is.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Wallin on 2007-12-05 20:58 ]</font>

[Krisan]

I don't think anyone should ever be obligated to use debuffs as part of normal support.. (Debuffs are useful and everything, but combat moves a tad too quickly in this game.. can't be expected to debuff every pack of mobs or the like, and otherwise it can be difficult to say what pack of mobs supposedly need debuffed and what ones don't.) While they might be necessary a few times, they shouldn't be a requirement of the support role.

I do think you should be buffing your party though, assuming someone else doesn't already have it covered. Are you support though if all you do is Resta and Reverser? I suppose in the literal sense, yes. But I'd still give some thought to throwing those buffs around all the same..

[Criss]

By definition, to support someone is to provide help in some way. So technically, anything from flinching a monster before it throws a barta at you to healing or buffing is support. There's a ton of ways to support your team, and using resta or reverser certainly counts as one. Buffs are another.

As for GTs, there's much more support to give than just techs. You can spray mguns on a pack of sageeta to prevent them from firing bartas, you can inflict SEs, launch with Mayalee Fury, etc. And then you can help kill faster too.

[DarthRuin]

not this shit again

[Hokokaru]

lol I was one of the people that went AT for whips, but i also bought a bunch of MAGs and spells to cast resta and reverser nonstop so it looked as if no one was getting hurt.... and i had a wand/MAG combo with my buffs and whatever lol and all my spells were lv10 ish but i was still healing 2K+

[Pentence]

On 2007-12-05 20:54, MrNomad wrote:
To me, support isn't just Restas and buffs, it's also using techs like razonde or rabarta to flinch mobs, to freeze them, to add total dmg up etc. Hunters move in and tank the mobs, techers and rangers go around flinching and causing SE to keep them pinned down http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


Bingo

[Sasamichan]

You're a bad support techer if you don't use buffs. You are a gimp, as a GT, if you dont have 21+ buffs. Debuffs and Resta/Reverser are a bonus.

[Sinue_v2]

Resta/Reverser are enough for me to consider support. Though for me, it depends on the character I'm playing.

Neika (WT): Resta/Reverser, Shifta/Deband. Jellen/Zelure on occasion.

NM-3084 (WT): Resta/Reverser. That's it. And you're lucky to get that. She will happily buff herself, and only herself, using Megistar though.

Arisa (GT): Resta/Reverser, Shifta/Deband/Reiter/Zodial, Jellen/Zelure, Traps/Status Effects, etc.

[drizzle]

(Gi)Resta + Reverser + Buffs = Support.

Debuffs slow you down so no, that's not support.

[Carlo210]

EDIT: Inappropriate language removed

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ryna on 2007-12-06 05:01 ]</font>

[Kion]

Is support even needed anymore. I use zalure just to tag enemies as i can barely even finish casting it before the FF's and AF's have finished nuking the room with majarra and slicers.

[RACast_Raiden]

My way of "supporting" is:
Buffs
Resta and reverser
and debuffs

[darkante]

Buffs, Resta/Giresta are a big help so i call them support.

Debuffs is pretty uneccasary in this game. (Although they rocked in PSO, there they were a big help)
The mobs dies pretty fast as it is.
Better nuking after buffing. =)

[danny_o]

For Guntecher , pick up a few Dam- line spells. Damfoie and Damdiga deal their Burn lvl 3 and Poison lvl 3, and they flinch monsters. Cast it on a wand and put a shadoog in your left hand you can put up quite a front of damage. Anything knocked back by the blast will get tagged by the shadoog, and your Burn/Poison will linger if you need to turn and run in order to reposition yourself.

I thought it was funny how GT's get Shadoogs, because they take up the slot of AWESOME-NESS that is the left hand (X-Bows, Handgun, Card, Mechgun) but the Shadoog/Wand(with Dam- TECH) works quite well. ***BUT*** that is mostly in smaller groups; a large group isn't gonna wait around while you cause the monsters to flinch.

It's kind of what MrNomad said, keep the attention on you!

[Sekani]

As a hunter, the only support tech I really care about is Reverser; I can't unfreeze or unsleep myself. Everything else is just a nice bonus.

As a techer, I'm primarily using Resta/Reverser, then buffs and debuffs as needed. Contrary to popular belief, not having those four colored arrows next to your name isn't the end of the world.

As far as definitions go, use the game's definition: support techs are heals, buffs, and debuffs. That's all most players will care about anyway.

[amtalx]

You are supporting, even if you aren't using all of the support spells. I think a more complete support package does include buffs/debuffs though.

[Zarode]

Eh, I just make sure (because my new main character is my Acrotecher anyways http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif) people are fully buffed, because I know what each buff does (and the recent missions make good us of most of them, sort of), and make sure to heal and reverser when needed.

Actually, I'm a healing-whore. I spam resta and reverser maybe too often. Good on Reverser, bad on Resta.

LEMME HEAL YOUR ONE HP WORTH OF DAMAGE, HEALBAG http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[edit]

And, I don't really like to use debuffs. I'm sure they are good for tagging, but that's all I could really think of them as. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif Enemies die too fast to make it matter much.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zarode on 2007-12-06 06:41 ]</font>

[Soulless]

I guess you are supporting if your frequently using resta, i.e. mainly use 1handed guns. However I dont see any reason not to level up buffs. It only takes 1 slot of your palette if you use madoog+wand after all. I personally think your not playing the class with its full "potential" if you dont do any buffs at all, not that Id blame others coz of that, its just how I see it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
Debuffs are only an extra since they arent that efficient (sadly)

[panzer_unit]

Resta, Reverser, I really like the ATA/EVP buffs and debuffs... no help needed for ATP really, lol.

Knocking enemy ATP down might be a big help now too, with DFP being pretty ineffective.

[jayster]

I dont really expect much from guntechers and wartechers :-/

[LTrav2k]

I think support teching also involves debuffs and other spells which may not necessarily cause the most damage, but may assist in a quite status effect/knockdown/etc.

If you're using a high level nosuzonde/megid to keep something locked down while hunter classes can beat on it, that's support teching which is even sometimes more helpful than debuffs. Mobs in higher rank S2s actually last long enough where debuffs matter, so I make sure if I haven't done anything... I apply Zalure and Zoldieel. Both actually help my damage swing as a wartecher so it makes more sense than just running in to PA spam all the time.

Now, I for one don't buff anymore as a WT (unless a group asks me to). I'd rather just use megistar and keep it moving. The debuffs still help everyone and most of the time in close combat I'm looking to JC launch mobs with Shunbu, so everyone else has an easier time hitting them. If most everything's shocked/silenced (whips have made this so much easier!) and not in need of immediate crowd control, then I may switch to a combo PA like the twin claws... but my main goal is, to make sure the people who are better at producing damage aren't worrying so mucy about accuracy (or worse, dying).

Since your buffs/debuffs as a GT are the second best around, I'd use them if I were a GT... the range is great and you guys got a diesel improvement on resta. Reverser's something I've grown to keep on my palette now that we have more space. You've got your guns to apply SEs easily, and even if it isn't producing the most damage we all know earth bullets > casters and lightning bullets > melee. If a GT was keeping a steady rotation of debuffs and SEs, I'll even become healbot and just melee for crowd control. How much support you want to give is dependant on the player, and how much you're willing to invest in the techs.

[Ssslither]

Sgt - Being a GT '15' myself, as well as AT '11' and FT '15'; resta & reverser is supportive. A small argument you say? lol Maybe it's time you play with people worth partying with who don't argue about such things...

[Dragwind]

I like to go all the way and buff, resta, and reverser. However I usually only debuff if there are medium or large sized enemies.

[Kylie]

Sure, it's better than nothing at all.

[panzer_unit]

BTW I agree that the best support is stagger, SE, knockdown, etc effects from ranged attacks. They make life easier for everyone on the team. If you get that going well enough, it's less healing and status reversal you need to do later.

[Shadow_Wing]

On 2007-12-06 15:56, panzer_unit wrote:
BTW I agree that the best support is stagger, SE, knockdown, etc effects from ranged attacks. They make life easier for everyone on the team. If you get that going well enough, it's less healing and status reversal you need to do later.



Melee have similar PAs in comparison, nowhere near the effectiveness of lets say a rifle but they have their own set of KB, flinching ect moves since AoI came out.

Why I love AT XD

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-12-06 16:01, Shadow_Wing wrote:

On 2007-12-06 15:56, panzer_unit wrote:
BTW I agree that the best support is stagger, SE, knockdown, etc effects from ranged attacks. They make life easier for everyone on the team. If you get that going well enough, it's less healing and status reversal you need to do later.



Melee have similar PAs in comparison, nowhere near the effectiveness of lets say a rifle but they have their own set of KB, flinching ect moves since AoI came out.

Why I love AT XD



It's true, but a melee can't affect anything besides the monsters immediately arou-YES I AM IGNORING SLICERS FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT-nd them.

Their output also comes in bursts due to using regular attacks, pauses for JA timing, interruptions from monster hits, etc, as opposed to guns which fire from safety (ideally) and about as fast as most targets can shake off the previous hit.

[Darkly]

buffs are useful but really fighters are broken anyway. If you keep your party alive and able to fight, that's excellent support in my eyes, but mr nomad is right too, controlling enemies is also supporting.

[Shadow_Wing]

It's true, but the limited amount of mobs that are needed to be should be controlled, bigger mobs come to mind, is something an AT can effect indefinitely. Of course this ignores the fact that other fighter classes have access to these said skills, but I believe the speed is what makes it that much easier to keep certain mobs down (I still wish I was a fG for grinnas, Savaltus, and a lot of other really annoying mobs lol)

which really comes to the face of seeing ATs lack of use of sabers and daggers, imo Whips is probably one of the weakest weapons in the AT arsenal outside of stunning using an Adac, in terms of mob control.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shadow_Wing on 2007-12-06 16:19 ]</font>

[Alisha]

On 2007-12-05 21:39, Pentence wrote:

On 2007-12-05 20:54, MrNomad wrote:
To me, support isn't just Restas and buffs, it's also using techs like razonde or rabarta to flinch mobs, to freeze them, to add total dmg up etc. Hunters move in and tank the mobs, techers and rangers go around flinching and causing SE to keep them pinned down http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


Bingo



my feeling is that if hunters need that flinching they need to learn to play better. also when i use my ice and zodeel bullets on shotgun im not doing it to help others im doing it to help myself it justhappens to also help others. but i also carry my own buff items so meh.

[Pengfishh]

Learn to play better? Why?!

[KayaHime]

I think that using Resta and Reverser is support teching, but not "all-out". I do all out support, by constantly casting Jellen/Zalure/Zoldeel (I've noticed I'm one of the few people who does this), and by making sure that my team always has Shifta/Deband/Zoldial/Retier at all times. I cast Resta and Reverser so much that they're almost 10 levels above my other TECHNICs. I'm kind of an elitist that way, I guess, because I think that anyone who calls themself a "support techer" and doesn't do their best to use ALL the support TECHNICs at their disposal (or at the very least, using healing TECHNICs and buffs) isn't doing their job and shouldn't be calling themself that.

If you're a Guntecher who uses Resta and Reverser, good for you, but that's what you are: A Guntecher who heals. Not a true supporter.

[gryphonvii]

I find myself using debuffs only when I'm in a party of slicers and I want some exp.

[ThEoRy]

All great GunTechers back the fTs up in a fight. Keep reverser on me and heals for all and yes you are looking out for the team's best interest. If that's not called supporting then I don't know what to call it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ThEoRy on 2007-12-06 21:41 ]</font>

[sirrokr]

For my WT, I only use Shifta and Resta as support, though I do play a more front-lines WT style. I suppose I could spend the time to learn other buffs, but I get annoyed when people expect me to change weapons in the middle of a combo. Generally if I'm not using my whip/madoog, i'm either shocked so I have to use my wand, or I'm in the middle of the action with my dual daggers.