Gunners

[Carlo210]

I was just wondering how gunners, specifically those using shotguns and crossbows, are faring in AotI. I haven't seen too many around (or noticed them) and I haven't played my fortegunner or guntecher class yet. Are they doing alright?
One of my main worries is the expensive bullet arts - pp wise. I mean, Guntecher dried out crossbows and dual handguns really quickly with level 30 bullet pp costs. It would seem that level 31+ bullets would dry out the guns even faster due to their increased PP cost. This was a big hanker on my GT experience. Fortegunner was always alright with PP, though, due to decreased costs.

So how're they doing? By the way, what's up with S-rank guns being godly expensive, especially guntecher guns? Jebesus Christ, Sega, make them drop in the new missions. It's always melee this, madoog that.

[Gunslinger-08]

I'm no expert, but as for gunning, namely, shot-gunning, I'm faring pretty well. In terms of PP usage, yes the higher level shots are relatively expensive, but I find that my Giga/Bullet helps to offset the costs effectively.
I think the reason you're not seeing/noticing the gunners out there is that you've probably noticed moreso the whip-noobs running around refusing to do anything but play with their new toys.

[Bliven]

I can't help you, as my highest shotgun shot is 24 and my highest crossbow is 26. but yea, gunners pretty much suck now. fighters are just plain better in pretty much every way.

[Carlo210]

Well there's nothing noobish about that, so no need to be offensive. I also find Bullet/Save to be counter effective with shotties and crossbows due to how ATP has such a big impact on your total damage (since it's effectively bieng multiplied 5 times on a shotgun).
And you use a PP/Save along with being a fortegunner? Is pp usage that bad?

[Bliven]

Well, bullet saves don't lower ATP, but I'm assuming you are talking about not being able to put an ATP unit in the slot. I love my bullet save on fortegunner and guntecher. crossbow is pretty bad with a bullet save, and I haven't tried it without. It seems with 31+ shots bullet/saves are basically a requirement.

[Pillan]

Gunners deal more damage in general thanks to the ATP buff and element nerf. Also they land more effects with the SE buff and large mob STA nerf. So, yeah, lots of improvements for gunners in general, but no one really notices because of all the buffs to fighters.

Rangers still have the easiest time soloing. If the damage difference bothers you so much in a party, you can always use sabers, daggers, and spears as Fortegunner or just switch to a hunter class.

[Gunslinger-08]

On 2007-12-06 20:55, Carlo210 wrote:
Well there's nothing noobish about that, so no need to be offensive. I also find Bullet/Save to be counter effective with shotties and crossbows due to how ATP has such a big impact on your total damage (since it's effectively bieng multiplied 5 times on a shotgun).
And you use a PP/Save along with being a fortegunner? Is pp usage that bad?


I didn't mean to offend, it's just that there are some acrotechers out there who I've had the displeasure of working with on occasion whose style of gameplay screams the word 'noob'. I'm sorry, I shouldn't generalize.
And as to the point concerning using PP/Save while being a fortegunner, unless I'm soloing, damage is not my focus so much as causing flinching and lighting stuff on fire is. Oh, and I like Tenora guns... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Edgecrusher]

Since the expansion came out i've been using shotgun and crossbow almost exclusively. Most of my bullets are 30+ and I can tell you that the pp consumption isn't as bad as you imagine. Photon charges are cheap and a giga bullet pp save isn't really necessary. It is pretty cool landing status effects on a large mob with the shotgun so that is one improvement.

[Gunslinger-08]

I should clarify. I use the bullet save for convenience. yeah, you can switch it out for an ATP booster, but if you're that concerned with your ATP, why are you being a gunner?

[The2dCour]

Shigga Desta+4 with 35 dark bullet on new all light creature mishon is fun =3 ~700/per bullet with over 1k crits. the lesser enemies can be taken out in 2-3 shots if you land all 5 bullets. imho gunners get shafted on de rol le mishon due to bullet resistence and all the magic using mobs, S is totally BS to try and solo (especially since silence is ground like all the mobs).
umm... to answer your question, gunner is still fun and useful. i've pretty much stopped usign anything but shotguns till the boss though. duranga can compete with a lot of melee types on bosses.

[Carlo210]

On 2007-12-06 21:00, Pillan wrote:
Rangers still have the easiest time soloing. If the damage difference bothers you so much in a party, you can always use sabers, daggers, and spears as Fortegunner or just switch to a hunter class.


I am a hunter class (acrofighter). http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
I can also tell you that mowing down a mob of small monsters (Lightning Beasts S) in 2-ish combos is definately giving me an easy time soloing. I'm not too sure if gunners can do that (I remember soloing as a gunner as "pew pew pew... I'm dry"), I just miss the shotgunning I did.
And, of course, my ever continuing gunner dilemma = I like fortegunner's stats and S rank shotgun, but I like guntecher's S rank crossbow and twin pistols.
Then again, the Tenora twin pistols are definately cool enough to settle with.
I, however, hate rifles, launchers, and laser cannons. lol
Basically, I like guntecher's weapons, but fortegunner's stats, pp save, and shotty. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Acrofighter is definately treating me well (claws and slicers are cool), and, being my first time doing a melee class, I'm having fun, but it is definately true that melee is in no way 'less' stale than gunning unless you carry every PA for your weapon and use them all in conjunction with one another (equalling the ameplay variety that hunter classes claim they have).



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Carlo210 on 2007-12-06 21:22 ]</font>

[Shadow_Wing]

I use a Hard / Power Charge <<

Shotguns are extremely PP/Damage friendly, where I can't really comment on xbows (not a big fan of em when I got shotguns). Rangers got an overall positive buff, a big one I might add which doesn't really make them weak in any way, however with the fighter's upgrade, yea they still lag behind them.

[caseylott]

Gunners are always gunna be the best. You don't see very many of them cause (like mine) it is very easy to solo just about anything. Also any noobs that are able to level so fast now, level up faster than there bullets can. So you see alot of high levels that don't do alot of damage.

[Broodstar1337]

On 2007-12-06 21:38, caseylott wrote:
Gunners are always gunna be the best. You don't see very many of them cause (like mine) it is very easy to solo just about anything. Also any noobs that are able to level so fast now, level up faster than there bullets can. So you see alot of high levels that don't do alot of damage.



The slicer disagrees with the whole Gunners being the best thing...

[Carlo210]

What's with everyone calling everyone noobs? Let go of your ego and enjoy they game. Is some really a noob because they levelled faster than their bullets? What the heck man, ease up.

[darkante]

On 2007-12-06 20:58, Bliven wrote:
Well, bullet saves don't lower ATP, but I'm assuming you are talking about not being able to put an ATP unit in the slot. I love my bullet save on fortegunner and guntecher. crossbow is pretty bad with a bullet save, and I haven't tried it without. It seems with 31+ shots bullet/saves are basically a requirement.


Crossbow isnt bad even if you got a Giga/Bullet PP Save on.

Although it´s better to just use a unit which ups atp on it instead seeing as the pp still drains fast either way.
And money drops like nothing now (well at least to support you to carry all kinds of buffs) so Photon charges you can afford now.

*Hugs my Solid / Knight unit* http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Elley]

I love my fortegunner. Much more entertaining than my beast fortefighter. Level 52 and climbing....

Sure, I don't do the damage that melee does, but I am an asset to the group. I provide stat effects with my bullets, knock things over with my grenade launchers, and I'm pretty good at destroying bosses (also with grenade launcher). A gunner is a great thing to have in a party, and I'm glad there aren't as many of us running around as there used to be. Let people play around with their whips and slicers...

[Indica]

My gunner is taking a break. With the exception of Sakura, most of these new maps are Force/Fighter friendly.

[Tetsaru]

Fortegunner for life here. I'm not really too concerned with damage unless I'm using my shotguns or Boma Duranga. Being able to hit a faraway enemy with a lv4 SE and start flinch-locking with my rifle while all the melee people are still running to get to it... that's pretty priceless imo.

[Shiryuu]

On 2007-12-06 21:18, The2dCour wrote:
(especially since silence is ground like all the mobs).

There's always light/confuse.

[Miyoko]

Speaking for high level gunners... It's... Eh... :/ Shotgun is pretty much the only worthwhile gun. Grenades and lasers here and there, assuming you have a high enough level on them, but 90% of the time, shotguns are the only thing worth using. Best damage gunners really have to offer (outside of the xbow UPA, maybe), and the only thing that can -come close- to comparing to hunter damage.

SE's are a complete waste of time once you get to high levels. Things die too fast for them to make any difference at all (unless you're soloing), or shotguns keep everything stunlocked, and thus, not in need of being SE'd.

Gunners need some love, badly. I'm still having fun with it, but it's pretty disheartening at the same time to see what the class ended up as. I use rifles maybe on 5 mobs per mission, and I flat out don't ever use dualies, mechs, or crossbows anymore. :/

Edit: Forgot to mention, on the topic of PP -- With shotties, you won't notice much of a difference with PP. With xbows... You might notice a bit. I notice I run out a bit faster. Rifles are just painful to use now, though. Sigh, lolbalance. If you're going to use a rifle, then, by god, I hope you have a bullet save and a pp regen unit. Otherwise, chuck an ATP unit on for your shotguns and you're good to go.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Miyoko on 2007-12-07 00:01 ]</font>

[Winter_of_uno]

They made PSU that easy now so that any newbies (I doubt that more than 10 ppl bought AOI w/o having regular PSU) can level fast, find S stuff easy and don't get pissed off by damage-dealing mobs.

Yes, melee is the shyd now, cause you don't need any DOT SEs like Virus or Burn anymore, you just beat the shyd outta evrythin'. More than 2 ppl in a party is pure overkill. Problem is that character cap is now higher than Monster cap. We used to have lv90 mobs with lv60.

Just wait til lv150 Tengohs make melees burn all there PP with their fancy melee toys.

On topic: Never really had problems with gun PP as an fG. Most GT i know get along fine too, even w/o a bullet/save. In fact, as an fG you'll be fine with an hpc, might have to reload a shotgun once in a longer mission. Sure, stuff like zagenga, or other ult bullets are not that cool with hpc.

[Gunslinger-08]

On 2007-12-06 23:29, Tetsaru wrote:
Fortegunner for life here. I'm not really too concerned with damage unless I'm using my shotguns or Boma Duranga. Being able to hit a faraway enemy with a lv4 SE and start flinch-locking with my rifle while all the melee people are still running to get to it... that's pretty priceless imo.



amen

[DesertGunner]

I'm using my Meteor Cannon a lot more often thanks to the damage upgrade. I can't wait to get that 10* Neudaiz cannon. That's thing's got 1300 fucking ATT!!!

I'm doing [B] Psycho Wand runs right now in hopes that when I find one and sell it, I'll have enough for a Rattlesnake. I already have 51 mil.

[Da_trader]

On 2007-12-07 03:32, DesertGunner wrote:
I'm using my Meteor Cannon a lot more often thanks to the damage upgrade. I can't wait to get that 10* Neudaiz cannon. That's thing's got 1300 fucking ATT!!!

I'm doing [B] Psycho Wand runs right now in hopes that when I find one and sell it, I'll have enough for a Rattlesnake. I already have 51 mil.



lol thats what im doing also hunting pwand so i can trade for rattlesnake or baret lol plus the gunner class is interesting if anyone gets laser pa's lvled to 40 they would kno those are the fastest way to input an SE the fastest http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[DesertGunner]

There's a Rattlesnake 3/3 that keeps getting pulled on and off for some reason. The guy wants like 70 mil for it and it's weaker than my Blackbull 7/7.

[amtalx]

The Good:
-Shotguns are amazing. Before ATP and element boost. Shotgun damage was close enough to Xbow damage that the constant fire advantage of Xbows made them about even. Post-AoI, my Shotgun greatly out-damages my Xbow. With nice buffs, I can crack 3350 per shot (~670/bullet). Now that Shotguns have flinch, you can stand behind a target for guaranteed hits and no fear of reprisal.
-We have a fantastic melee option now. With level 20 Skills, we get the meaty parts of the combos. Also, since the market is flooded with S ranks, you can pick up a set of 50% A-ranks relatively cheaply. Now I can FINALLY show Kog Nadds the business. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
-Laser Cannons are ridiculously powerful. If you are hitting at least 3 creatures with a level 40 bullet, it's one of the most destructive tools you have. Thats not to hard considering enemies in the new missions are piratically taped together immediately after spawn. Add flinch to the equation and you have stun-locked cannon fodder at decent range with SE3.

The Bad:
-SE is pointless most of the time. This game is like shooting fish in a barrel now, so if you are in a group of more than 3 people, forget about any DoTs. Creatures die so fast that you will only get a tick or two. Even large mob creatures go down within seconds. Unfortunately, until we get harder missions, one of the largest parts of being a ranger is a futile effort. Thanks ST.
-Some of our weapons got hammered for PP cost. Killer Shot in particular increases at 31+, but gains nothing but ATP afterwards. Basically we are paying for nothing. There is no increase in Incapacitate potential. They could have at least improved to the ATA mod, which would have indirectly affected Incapacitate... Even with a Bullet Save the PP cost is crippling.

Overall, I think rangers came out for the better. However, a lot of the good things are either pointless because enemies die so fast, or eclipsed by the hand job fighters got. Well have to wait for some more challenging missions to see how our power really plays out.

[Darkly]

I don't understand why people only refer to burn and virus as useful SE's, enemies are more agressive with spells, they SE your party pretty fast, using silence, paralayze and confused helps out the fighters deal out the hurt.

I think gunners fit better into their support role now, they can control mobs from a far, stunning them and SE'ing them, and as a guntecher you can look after your party too.

All i wish for though is for large enemies to have massive amounts of hp again so burn etc. is useful and gunners are more required for smooth running of a party

[CelestialBlade]

Guntecher for life, here. I'm having way too much fun with my vastly-improved Support role and overall stat increases. You stop caring about that increased PP usage when you see the ATP mods and the sexy elemental %s at 31+ (Twin Handguns at 36%? Hel yeh), not to mention meseta drops got a much-needed boost so Photon Charges might as well be free.

I'm primarily using Crossbows, Cards, and Twin Handguns as my main offense, paired with a Solid / Power S.

SEs are gonna rise again when the new missions get an S2 ranking. I think gunners are going to regain their previous advantages once we finally get some very high level enemies again.

[jayster]

On 2007-12-06 21:51, Broodstar1337 wrote:

On 2007-12-06 21:38, caseylott wrote:
Gunners are always gunna be the best. You don't see very many of them cause (like mine) it is very easy to solo just about anything. Also any noobs that are able to level so fast now, level up faster than there bullets can. So you see alot of high levels that don't do alot of damage.



The slicer disagrees with the whole Gunners being the best thing...



you do know that slicers are getting nerfed.... again....

Gunners will always be one of the top classes.

[Golto]

At lvl 31-40 elemental twin handgun and shotgun bullets damage per hit are only have a few % difference in damage. Thanks to shotguns having 15% higher atp lvl 31-40. So if you are using some decently grinded deathmakers you will slightly outdamage using a Shigga Desta if using equal lvled bullets. But factor in 5 hits per shotgun shot and you can only get off 2 shots using twin per 1 shot w/ shotgun, shotguns have better dps. The thing shotguns really excell in is damage per pp. With buff item you should be doing at least 660-670 on average. So (660x5)/14 compared to (680x2)/11.

[kissablepimp]

I'm a fortegunner (15) and I tear everything apart and solo every new mission and alwys finish in 25-30 mins each run so hell we still rock!!!!! P.S. the white dragon eats the dirt in under 3 mins.

[Lyric]

I always enjoyed being a Guntecher, and have no complaints. I mainly used dualies, bows, and mechguns. Though now I'm actually able to incorporate some decent offensive spells as well. At the moment I'm trying out other classes, but I plan to return to Guntech after all is said and done. I miss using my Hirokteri XD

[Shiro_Ryuu]

On 2007-12-07 07:33, jayster wrote:

On 2007-12-06 21:51, Broodstar1337 wrote:

On 2007-12-06 21:38, caseylott wrote:
Gunners are always gunna be the best. You don't see very many of them cause (like mine) it is very easy to solo just about anything. Also any noobs that are able to level so fast now, level up faster than there bullets can. So you see alot of high levels that don't do alot of damage.



The slicer disagrees with the whole Gunners being the best thing...



you do know that slicers are getting nerfed.... again....

Gunners will always be one of the top classes.



Well, hopefully Fighter DPS will stay at least more than Gunner DPS. Well, Shotties and Xbows who point-blank can keep their high DPS since they're point-blanking and risking their arses.

[Alpha-Hunter]

My PT is loving shotties! I think lv 21/31+ bullets are the best damage PT's can do. It's crazy really! the damage, SE and flinch rapes packs of smaller mobs! And Shotty PP seems to last forever!

On my GT XBows and dualies are still my main stays. 31+ dualies drain pretty fast, especially the tenora ones, but gunners always have multiples and charges are the cheap...

XBows drain pretty fast too now at 31+ but they are usually attached to a wand anyway so... Oh, and I use a giga save on my GT. tried one on my PT but it made melee impossible. It's already pretty bad with the normal PP usage w/o the unit. He wears a solid knight now.

[Sylpheed]

Sorry, but are all the 'Pro-Fighters' on this forum complete idiots? I mean seriously have you not stopped and watched the damage a gunner can do? Granted Fighters are now stupidly powerful but to be honest with my 110 beast gunner i can out damage pretty much any standard fighter in this game.

Shotties rip through pretty much every mob in every mission, doing almost 600 damage per bullet with HPC and buffs that almost 3000 damage per pump. Also IMO gunners destroy bosses faster than any other class with Boma Duranga, assuming you have it at a good level.
So, yeah to conclude the only thing that fighters have on gunners in terms of DPS is Jabroga and Majarra. I'm making these statements over the comparison of FF and FG, In relation to AF then nothing really compares to the DPS slicers can do but they're apperantly getting nerfed again anyway so.....go figure.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-12-07 09:01, Alpha-Hunter wrote:
My PT is loving shotties! I think lv 21/31+ bullets are the best damage PT's can do. It's crazy really! the damage, SE and flinch rapes packs of smaller mobs! And Shotty PP seems to last forever!


Yeah, if PT can hit ~600/hit for shotgun at lv31+ it's going to be somewhere around Bogga Robado and Spinning Strike for single-target damage.

I wonder how high max level laser's going to go? 220% ATP, that's gonna get close to 1000/hit and given 5-6 monsters that would be on par with some of the multi-target PA's for damage output.

[Kerberos]

If PP consumption is a problem GT classes can turn to the Yohmie 6* Shotgun. Grinded to 10 the PP is 1700 & ATP is 117(1 better then a Bines(4)). With self applied lvl 3 buffs & 31+ shots I can easily see 600+ on small mobs. Using a Giga/Bullet save with primarily Xbows & a shotgun I use very little photon charges, except when I start using sabers for those bullet resistant mobs.

[Gen2000]

I find myself using Shotgun 90% of the time, with Duranga for bosses, and whatever else for that specific situtation if need be (i.e. Rifle/Twins on flying enemy/bosses). I'm mainly using Shotgun just to keep up with the random joe next to me using JA'd melee PAs to do his hax damage.

Fortegunner is still a nice balanced class, able to take on any mission no problem but now almost any other class can match their run times or do it faster with less effort . Yeah Duranga rapes bosses but as you level up the bullet towards lv.31+ it destroys your HP and you're basically popping Trimates every two shots. Jaborga or even a Beast Wartecher using an excellent Whip can can do similiar damage without killing themselves in the process and most likely come out the mission with a better profit.

Orgasming over the 3k damage of Shotgun is nice and well overdue for the weapon but any sloppy melee can do the same damage to multiple enemies in the same time it takes one pump of the Shotgun to finish.

lv.31 Element Laser starts doing about 1kish damage a bullet but the firerate is pretty slow and when you notice the Slicer user next to you doing 2-3x as much along with basically firing two projectiles at once if they're an Srank Shadoog using AF you don't look so hot anymore.

Most guns have enough PP to not be worrying so much about it imo, I use a Hard/Power Charge and the only noticeable hit to my PP wallet is when using Tenora Twins but they have shitty PP/regen anyways so it's to be expected so I carry 2-3 of em.


Overall, I think rangers came out for the better. However, a lot of the good things are either pointless because enemies die so fast, or eclipsed by the hand job fighters got. Well have to wait for some more challenging missions to see how our power really plays out.

This how I feel basically, I still have fun because I like shooting BFGs and all that but post-AoI the improvements don't seem that great when seeing how the current end game turned out. Hopefully the new S2 missions actually require some effort, I don't expect much but I hope I'm wrong. Used to hear the same thing about the current AoI missions and how they would be challenging and all that from JP players but look how that turned out...

[Carlo210]

How are slicers getting nerfed again?

[GreenArcher]

On 2007-12-07 15:51, Gen2000 wrote:

This how I feel basically, I still have fun because I like shooting BFGs and all that but post-AoI the improvements don't seem that great when seeing how the current end game turned out. Hopefully the new S2 missions actually require some effort, I don't expect much but I hope I'm wrong. Used to hear the same thing about the current AoI missions and how they would be challenging and all that from JP players but look how that turned out...



Same here, that's why I'm taking a break for a while. The end game just isn't fun at all.

But anyway, I use both Shotguns and Crossbows in my Main, a Fortegunner. I also use a Hard/Power Charge, and have used one since February. My crossbow is paired up with a dagger, and I use both quite often so even with 31+ and an HPC my crossbow doesn't run out as fast as you would think. Shotguns take a block and a half or so to run out, and I carry two. PP is never an issue though as long as you don't use more than 10 charges http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif (and even at that point there's still photon charge cosmos...)

[Miyoko]

On 2007-12-07 05:39, Darkly wrote:
I don't understand why people only refer to burn and virus as useful SE's, enemies are more agressive with spells, they SE your party pretty fast, using silence, paralayze and confused helps out the fighters deal out the hurt.

I think gunners fit better into their support role now, they can control mobs from a far, stunning them and SE'ing them, and as a guntecher you can look after your party too.

All i wish for though is for large enemies to have massive amounts of hp again so burn etc. is useful and gunners are more required for smooth running of a party



People refer to shock, silence and ice as useless now, because, if you're chain-shooting something, the flinch each bullet causes is going to do more for for keeping mobs from attacking than SEs will. :/

[Zuurr]

On 2007-12-06 20:54, Bliven wrote:
I can't help you, as my highest shotgun shot is 24 and my highest crossbow is 26. but yea, gunners pretty much suck now. fighters are just plain better in pretty much every way.


Very ignorant of you...
Maybe a fighter with a slicer (overpowered ¬_¬) But guns attack faster with medium damage... 300-600 if used correctly.
Basically it balances the two classes out.

[Tulio07]

On 2007-12-06 20:54, Bliven wrote:
I can't help you, as my highest shotgun shot is 24 and my highest crossbow is 26. but yea, gunners pretty much suck now. fighters are just plain better in pretty much every way.



WRONG, Gunners do not suck, albeit we are not as good as we used to be, we're still freaking awesome.

[Jife_Jifremok]

I'm glad the DoTs aren't nearly as important as they used to be. Good direct damage shouldn't have ever been outperformed by the DoT of some coward standing from a distance with the easiest gun to use in the whole game (rifles) or even traps. Now, in a small party I'll still bust out some virus every now and then if I'm fighting a bunch of enemies and only feel like using shotguns. Things like shock and silence are occasionally useful...now that I don't have to worry about dishing out damage JUST TO KEEP THE BATTLE FROM DRAGGING OUT TOO MUCH, I can shock/silence one enemy and keep the other on stunlock, without worrying that I'm doing less damage because it's not the opposite element bullet.

Yeah, I love how gunners turned out. Long-range folk do less damage, close-range folk do more. Lasers do good damage, but they're the hardest of the long-range guns to use effectively so they deserve it. And the rifles that I hate so much have gotten some nasty nerfing, buahaha...but let's see how it turns out when enemies get stronger. Hopefully some burn4/virus4 won't become a necessity again, but just something that's nice to have.

[Sexy_Raine]

I enjoy human FoG very much and wouldn't have her any other way, though I can't stand how Sega caters to nubbish melee. I respect those who put a lot of time behind gunners, and don't give in to that bandwagon BS. Hopefully gunners will get new bullets, and better improvements in the future. I'll be glad to wait for the spread needle. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[jayster]

On 2007-12-07 15:53, Carlo210 wrote:
How are slicers getting nerfed again?



Well they're going to take the damage modifiers and lower them..

[Syl]

On 2007-12-07 21:15, jayster wrote:

On 2007-12-07 15:53, Carlo210 wrote:
How are slicers getting nerfed again?



Well they're going to take the damage modifiers and lower them..



I keep hearing this. Unless its the JP nerf (which we got upon the release of AoI), I'd like info on this cause I keep hearing this and seeing no proof/info making me think some angry fortetecher is fumin in the corner spreding rumors.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Man, why are us Fighters getting insulted all of a sudden for being nubbish? I don't want a noob-friendly class when I pick Hunter, I just play them because I love swords. ._.

Like I said before, some Ranger weapons deserve their uber high damage, like Shotguns and Xbows w/ point blank cuz you're risking your ass and you might get smacked while not having the HP and DFP of a FF, or the EVP of a AF. Boma Duranga or whatever its called is also fine because you're taking away your own HP, so you're pretty much hurting yourself and costing yourself mates to use that thing.

The game's pretty much balanced now. Some would say FT sux too, but I know some FTs who are a really great help to the party. Maybe Slicers may be pushing things a bit too far, but I personally prefer spamming Hikai and Gravity Strike.

[Garanz-Baranz]

Ultimately... Gunners, in my opinion, still are superior to Fighters in a number of areas.

1- Gunners, and Protransers, can use Shotguns, at Lv11-20, a shotgun does fair damage, and at 21+, it's damage is almost unsurpasable, exspecially if you use the nice two-hit effect on Shotguns, htitting with 10 Bullets, and not just 5.

2- Laser Cannons got buffed, this weapon is far superior to Slicers, as it can fire faster, has wider range, can be straffed effectivly, and is just awsome to use.

The power of Fortegunners and Guntechers, and some Protransers, is still greatest with most guns, Bows, Laser Cannons, Shotguns, Crossbows, all are great, and PP friendly, mostly.

Fighters are greater in multi hitting targets, using knock back/ups, and using high ATP to break the high DFP of other monsters.

The ONLY class that is fighter and is not enjoying the splendor of these updates, is Wartecher, it's ATP at Lv9 passes GunTecher ATP only about 100 points, with GT lv10. Also, it takes in a Pallet fuss,with out things like Axes, and Double Sabers, and Slicers, it's only "Special" weapon is the whip, which isn't much a damager in the first place.

I commend Wartechers fighting out this ATP lack, as a Beast Wartecher, even my ATP seems minimal compared to the gunner side of her[she is also Guntecher].

[Reipard]

"Under these specific circumstances with these specific weapons using PAs that take far longer to level up to a reasonable level than any physical PA just because they inflict something that is useless right now, a gunner can do close or equivalent damage to a fighter. Gunners still rock and fighters aren't better in every single way, what with doing more damage, faster for MUCH less work."

Right now, Gunners aren't in a very good position. Things need to be rebalanced so fighter damage isn't so ridiculous (nerf to JA crits since they're forced), gunners aren't struggling to level their PAs for a ridiculous amount to time to reach any level of usefulness (make the bullets level faster) and status effects are useful again (enemies need more HP).

Also, Laser Cannons don't outdo Slicers unless we take Chikki Kyoreijin out of the equation :.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Reipard on 2007-12-07 22:52 ]</font>

[jayster]

On 2007-12-07 21:28, SylviaEspada wrote:

On 2007-12-07 21:15, jayster wrote:

On 2007-12-07 15:53, Carlo210 wrote:
How are slicers getting nerfed again?



Well they're going to take the damage modifiers and lower them..



I keep hearing this. Unless its the JP nerf (which we got upon the release of AoI), I'd like info on this cause I keep hearing this and seeing no proof/info making me think some angry fortetecher is fumin in the corner spreding rumors.



Well the nerf at the beginning of AOI was just a small nerf. In japan, they have a much bigger nerf. Which means that its not the same nerf and we'll most likely get the same nerf soon enough. Then everyones favorite weapon will just be an average weapon.

I'm not saying gunners are better than fighters, but by no means is a fighter better than a gunner. If a fighter fights a melee resistant monster, they either have to melee it to death or shoot them with their pistol... if a gunner fights a bullet resistant monster then they can trap / SE it and then finish it off with one of its level 20 melee pa's. Gunners have access to 2 very strong melee weapons as well, daggers and spears, both with very strong ultimate pa's.


I'm not degrading fighters though, they're a very good class. In fact, I'm making jayster into a fortefighter and switching all his gunner equipement and pa's over to a cast I created.

The main difference between gunners and fighters is that you can take a gunner to any mission and be very effective while fighters are only effective in select misisons. While a fighter won't do crap in a robot mission, they'll do fantastic in a mission with melee weak monsters.

[Syl]

On 2007-12-07 22:57, jayster wrote:

On 2007-12-07 21:28, SylviaEspada wrote:

On 2007-12-07 21:15, jayster wrote:

On 2007-12-07 15:53, Carlo210 wrote:
How are slicers getting nerfed again?



Well they're going to take the damage modifiers and lower them..



I keep hearing this. Unless its the JP nerf (which we got upon the release of AoI), I'd like info on this cause I keep hearing this and seeing no proof/info making me think some angry fortetecher is fumin in the corner spreding rumors.



Well the nerf at the beginning of AOI was just a small nerf. In japan, they have a much bigger nerf. Which means that its not the same nerf and we'll most likely get the same nerf soon enough. Then everyones favorite weapon will just be an average weapon.



You mean the 360%->280% nerf? Cause that already happened lol.

[MrNomad]

Gunners aren't bad, they're just not the dmg fiends they were before. They also aren't the end all best solo class in the game, although they're up there. Now Hunters are the best kind of dmg, which is what the game should've been since the start. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif And I know a lot of gunners are gonna hate what I said, and that's too bad. You're support 1st, dmg 2nd http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I don't see how Fighters are broken. But yeah, I'm GLAD that one of my favorite weapons is going from broken hax to just as good as the rest of the weapons. I was just about to boycott Chikki Kyoren-jin in favor of that other Slicer PA we'll be getting soon if it stayed broken.

[Bman40]

On 2007-12-06 20:54, Bliven wrote:
I can't help you, as my highest shotgun shot is 24 and my highest crossbow is 26. but yea, gunners pretty much suck now. fighters are just plain better in pretty much every way.

gunners dont suck, they are way better. and for anyone complaining about the pp costs, JUST GET A DAMN GIGA BULLET SAVE!

[pikachief]

On 2007-12-07 22:57, jayster wrote:

On 2007-12-07 21:28, SylviaEspada wrote:

On 2007-12-07 21:15, jayster wrote:

On 2007-12-07 15:53, Carlo210 wrote:
How are slicers getting nerfed again?



Well they're going to take the damage modifiers and lower them..



I keep hearing this. Unless its the JP nerf (which we got upon the release of AoI), I'd like info on this cause I keep hearing this and seeing no proof/info making me think some angry fortetecher is fumin in the corner spreding rumors.



Well the nerf at the beginning of AOI was just a small nerf. In japan, they have a much bigger nerf. Which means that its not the same nerf and we'll most likely get the same nerf soon enough. Then everyones favorite weapon will just be an average weapon.






Jayster, as a fellow slicer user on both 360 and JP servers i can tell u, the JP and US slicer nerf was exactly the same. wat they are now, is wat they will stay as.