fortefighter Help

[jayster]

Well I'm making jayster a fortefighter now and I'm moving all his gunner equipement and pa's over to a cast i'm leveling.

So any tips on pa's I should buy (meseta pa's and ultimate pa's). I'll probably end up using almost every weapon for the fortefighter so I need pa's for all the weapons.

[Zorafim]

One PA per weapon? I can do that.

Axe: Anga Dugrega
Sword: Tornado Break
Spear: Dus Majarra (daggas is almost as good)
Twin claw: Renzan Seidan-ga
Claw: Senten Kanzan-ga / maybe Bukuu
Twin Saber: Maybe Rising Crush
Saber: Rising Strike
Fists: Bogga Robado
Twin dagger: Moubu Seiran-zan
Dagger: Buten Shuren-zan
Slicer: Chikki Kyoren-jin
Handgun: Whatever color matches your outfit.

[Weeaboolits]

I personally prefer Gravity Strike over Rising Strike, but I can see how it'd be useful.

[Zorafim]

I chose Rising Strike, because there are so few powerful PAs that also provide support. Same reason I chose Dugrega. I actually haven't tried Gravity Strike, though that may be because I dislike its looks.

[Weeaboolits]

I like how it looks and it has a lot of hits, also I'd recommend Also Jabroga, but it can be difficult to use effectively, and I'm not sure how well it would work in a party (I play offline, so I can really only speak for how useful a PA is for soloing).

For daggers, I'd recommend Hikai Shuha-zan assuming it's not too difficult to get, it takes a bit of practice touse properly but is well worth it.

[RadiantLegend]

Axe: Anga Redda, Anga Jabroga (Big numbers)
Sword: Gravity Break
Spear: Dus Majarra, Dus Robado (better than tornado break)
Twin claw: Whatever the ult one is called
Claw: Dont need
Twin Saber: Assault crush, Splendor crush and cross hurricane ( or was it hurricane cross)
Saber: Rising strike/Spinning strike... (other weapons will out do saber)
Fists: Bogga Robado, Bogga zubba
Twin dagger: The one coming out this week
Dagger: No need
Slicer: Haxchiki

Bolded are fF must and JA friendly

[Zorafim]

Mm, I'm not really following your logic with some of those. Anga Redda is just like any other damage PA, and its damage is similar to dugrega, which is a very unique PA. Jabroga is definitely good, but I was operating under the assumption that the original poster only wanted one PA per weapon. If you can, pick up Jabroga. It's really useful against dragon bosses and other enemies with a large amount of target areas.
I actually heavily suggest against using Gravity Break. It's by far the slowest three part PA in the game if JAed, and its damage is unimpressive if not. Spinning Break is just the opposite; it's quick, but its damage isn't there. This is why I suggested Tornado Break, simply as an excuse to use a sword.
With Spears, every PA is good. Dus Majarra is the best PA to use overall, but it may not be easily accessible to you. Daggas almost does as much damage, though it isn't as versatile as Majarra. If you have Majarra, there isn't really much point in using Robado, since Majarra can pretty much take over Robado's role. Robado is my favorite AoE PA, though, so you may want to look in to getting it.
For Twin Claws, the final PA (Rensan) is too slow for general use. Its damage is nice, but until you get to the last hit (Not always easy to do), you're not going to do too much. Bukuu is near useless from what I've seen from it. That leaves Renzan, the second PA. This one is actually really good. It's quick, its damage is high, and it offers good support via knockups, knockdowns, and knockbacks. The downside is that it usually can only be used by focusing on one enemy.
Claws, I agree aren't very good. But, the second PA I've grown to like. It offers some damage (I normally do around 4k per combo), and it ends really quickly. I'm highly anticipating the last PA, but I can't really say too much besides offline data.
I'm doing to have to critique Ragol's selection for twin saber, as well. Splendor Crush is pretty slow, and is fairly awkward. Cross Hurricane is really slow to complete, and it looks like it's easily interruptible. Assault Crush is really good for damage, though its PP usage is high and it isn't good until lv21+. I like Rising Crush because there aren't many PAs that simply knock enemies up like that, which can be very useful.
Saber is an overall useful weapon, though it's not great. Spinning Strike is supposed to do unparalleled damage vs. a single target, but I can't really say much about that. Rising is useful with its high damage modifier and its support, not to mention how quick it is. Gravity Strike, I suppose is good for its overall usefulness in terms of damage.
For fists, I don't agree that Bogga Zubba is useful. I spent alot of strain getting it to 30, and I couldn't find a good use for it. Maybe now that its damage is boosted, it may be good, but it does pretty much the same thing the rising series does and is more situational. I do agree with Bogga Robado, though, since its damage is very high.
For twin daggers, every PA seems to be useful. Renkai is good against three targets, and its damage is actually pretty good. Mobou is overall a useful PA for damage, and Hikai is great if you don't want Rising Crush. The new PA, I don't think it's great from what I've seen offline. I suppose it can operate as a rising series of PAs, but the fact that its second part is just a knockup worries me. I haven't seen its last move though, so I may be surprised by it. If anything, though, buy it for its looks.
Dagger, um, I'll agree that it's not great, but butou is a fairly useful PA. It works both as a damage and crowd control PA, and its mobile enough to dodge attacks while using it. I suppose the frag PA is similar, just faster.
Slicer, yeah, the store bought one is what everyone's using. It's the current fad PA, and kills enemy groups very quickly. It's one of those things Sega does to make the fans wonder what they're thinking.


If going for necesary PAs, I would have to go with Dugrega, Jabroga, Majarra, Chiki, and some Rising PA (Strike, Crush, or Hikai).

[RadiantLegend]

You typed a lot there so ill just focus on a few points.

1) Zubba is so much better after the update. You have to see the damage this thing can put out in just one attack.

2) As for gravity break, I havent gotten it past lv 30 so i dont know if it still get the same boost per lv. If so it is still going to be a beast a lv 40.

3) JA favors Redda now more than dugrega. with dugrega you spend more time chasing down the guy you just knocked 20000 feet away.

4) The 2nd claw PA is more of a 1:1 situation, where the ult can do both just well.

[Zorafim]

Fair arguments. I can't say much for Zubba, but I can say that Gravity Break is just a slower Redda/Dugrega. Its damage is high, but it leaves you very vulnerable and its damage just isn't worth that hit.
As for the Axe PAs, each one is situational in their own right. Redda is a good PA to have for most enemies, but like I said nothing else can quite do what Dugrega does. In fact, if you do it right, Dugrega can do what Redda does, though it takes a certain amount of skill to do this and it probably won't always be worthwhile.
And for the twin claws, it isn't too hard to get Renzan good against a group. Simply focus on one target, and use the second and third parts of the PA against the rest of the group. This should spread the group apart, making it easier to get more 1:1 situations. It may depend on the hunter, but either situation could work if you preform it well. And again, if you're going to rule out Renzan because of its situationalism, you may as well use another DoT PA from another weapon.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zorafim on 2007-12-08 17:32 ]</font>

[jayster]

Well I used to have almost every fighter pa up to 30 but I deleted most of them before AOI to become fortegunner. I still have a couple at 30; ie, dus robado, first 2 twin daggers, and splender crush. I bought Bogga danga, dus majarra, anga jabroga(this pa almost seems pointless with its slow speed?! Are axes only boss friendly?), and renzan seidan-ga (my friend was telling me that the ultimate is 10x more usefull and powerful).

Also, how does the ult twin dagger compare to the first 2 twin dagger pas. I never got around to buying that pa.

Oh and btw, here are the main weapons I plan on using:

Spears
Fists
Twin daggers
Axes
Twin sabers
Twin claws
Axes
And I'm undetermined about swords yet. I was never a fan of spining break and tornado break, I haven't used the ultimate pa but I here its strong. I kind of want one just because they look cool, but are they actually good with dps?

I probably won't ever use a claw, saber, slicer, dagger, and pistol.

[Zorafim]

Anga Jabroga gains 5% atp per levelup until lv11, 6% until 21, and 7% until 31. I don't know what it gains after 31, but you can see that its power really gets high. I've seen pictures of it doing 5k per hit. That, alone, is why it's useful. If you can somehow find any reason at all you'd want to wait that long for a hit (boss fights, mostly), it's worth using.

As for twin claws, Renzan and Rensan have around a similar use. I prefer Renzan because it's most useful at the beginning, while Rensan is useful at the end. It also gets to the end quicker.

The frag PA for twin daggers is pretty good. Think of it like Rising Crush with damage. It's difficult to aim, though, but I like it.

For swords, like I said, it's not worth it unless you really want one. Gravity Break has a huge damage modifier, but I can't think of a good reason to use a PA that slow. It's also terrible to JA, making you wait twice as long for the JA window.

As a fortefighter, always keep a pistol on hand. Always. You are going to need it some time or another, there's always some mob just out of melee reach or some other annoyance. I believe that, because you're going to use it anyway, you should get at least one PA for it just to boost its damage. And, because you're going to use a pistol, you should have a single weapon to pair with it.

[Weeaboolits]

Renga Chujin-shou is an excellent PA too, I dunno' if it's been released yet, but if it's out get it. It makes you very evasive, but the range is short, the zig-zagging motion of it makes most projectile attacks fired at you miss, as well as half the physical ones. Koltova and other enemies of the type launch too far to hit with the end of the combo, but it works well on Go Vahras, though, really the first hit is the most useful part. Though, I'm not sure about the damage output, it doesn't seem to kill things quite as fast as some other PAs, but it's still good. ;o

[thunder-ray]

On 2007-12-08 20:05, Zorafim wrote:
Anga Jabroga gains 5% atp per levelup until lv11, 6% until 21, and 7% until 31. I don't know what it gains after 31

it gains 8% more at 31 currently my jabroga is on 37 and its % 380+

[Hrith]

Dus Robado is in no way better better than Tornado Break >_> It's slower, has less range and costs much more PP and hits more targets.
I guess the higher ATA can help beasts, but the damage from Tornado Break in the same time is clearly superior.

More damage
More targets
More range
Much more speed
Less ATA

Tornado Break wins.


Spear: use any of the other two, Dus Daggas is not far behind Dus Majarra, and does not quite look as stupid.


Anyone who does not pick Assault Crush as their main twin saber PA is a failure at FF/FI, it's probably the PA with the highest DPS in the game in 90% of the situations.

For twin claws, I agree with Ragolismine.

For axes, I disagree with him, Anga Dugrega is meant to knock down big things, not run after small ones. Redda does less damage with less accuracy and more PP than Daggas or Majarra, so it's quite useless.
Jabroga is only good for 3-4 bosses in the game, I would not waste 99 PA fragments on a skill of such limited use, unless you have nothing else to buy and/or loads of frags.

Single/twin dagger: you should not use them at all. Why burden yourself with A grade weapons when you can use S grade weapons in eight different categories? Sounds really stupid to me.

Single saber: Gravity Strike will never hit enough targets to be at its full potential. Spining Strike deals less damage to single targets than Assault Crush, much, much less. Rising Strike can be good, for both damage and utility.

Single claw: Senten Kanzan-ga is one of the best damage dealers to monsters with 3+ parts, very high damage in very little time, very hard to cancel.

Knuckles: not Bogga Danga, the other two are fine, but Bogga Robado will be useful in more situations than Bogga Zubba.

[Hrith]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Hrith on 2007-12-10 09:25 ]</font>

[Ezodagrom]

About tornado break/dus robado, I think they're both good, none is worse than the other.
At lvl 40 dus robado has 250% ATP and 92% ATA, it hits 3 targets 1 time, then 3 targets 2 times and then 3 targets 2 times. Uses 17 or 22 pp, depending on the class.
At lvl 40 tornado break has 180% ATP and 95% ATA, hits 4 targets 1 time, then 4 targets 1 times, then 4 targets 1 time. Uses 12 or 16 pp.
Dus robado is slower and uses more pp than tornado break, but is stronger and hits more (3x1 + 3x2 + 3x2 > 4x1 + 4x1 + 4x1).

[Darkly]

ezodagrom, if you notice carefully the second part of robado actually hits 3x3, its hard to notice because it just appears at the end.

[biggabertha]

Dus Robado's Attack percent modifier that you see in your PA screen and on the weapon apply only for the first hit though, the two hits in the second combo deal significantly less damage than the first part of the combo. The third part of the combo hits slightly stronger than the second part and even though both the second combo and the third combo hits twice, it will most likely out-damage Tornado Break if there are only three targets available and those three targets do not move, attack or get nudged out of the way.

Tornado Break on the other hand, gets progressively stronger as you work through the combo and costs far less than Dus Robado even as a Protranser, my Creasword out-lasts my Muktrand just because using normal JA attacks with a Sword is so much easier (possibly because it's a Crea weapon as well) than a Spear/Lance that hits linearly in front of you. Tornado Break also has the advantage that it holds and clears four enemies all around you faster than Dus Robado.

Now that elemental percentages seem to work only on a weapon's ATP, it seems like Swords will gain more benefit than Spears/Lances but it's likely, that this won't matter. It boils down to what kind of Fortefighter you'd like to play, either; a fun, carefree and stylistic one, in which case, you would pick the one that looked better for you or your character; or one that deals the most amount of damage in the shortest amount of time; or lastly as one that supports the team and does not really care about damage.

[RadiantLegend]

If you think jabroga is only useful on bosses then you truely havent seen someone use it at lv 40.

It is just as bad as slicer only slower and less range.

[Ezodagrom]

checking the jp psu wiki, tornado break lvl 30 has 170% ATP on the 1st part, 180% ATP on the 2nd part and 210% ATP on the 3rd part. Dus Robado lvl 30 has 230% ATP on the 1st part, 170% ATP on the 2nd and 240% ATP on the 3rd.

I still think robado is stronger than tornado (in terms of just power), but doesn't mean that it's better (tornado's faster, uses less pp)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ezodagrom on 2007-12-09 12:59 ]</font>

[Dragwind]

I'd say use almost anything you want, your atp is so insane it almost doesn't matter. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[panzer_unit]

The range, AOE, and single-move use on Anga Jabroga give it a number of awesome uses. Comparing at lv30, all three Axe PA's seem to do about the same damage... picking just one, I'd have to give my vote to Dugrega tho. There's nothing else that cranks out a fast knockback like that. You can frequently use the jump to hit the target you just plowed into, and if not you can usually jump over to something new and start beating the crap out of that.

Bogga Zubba's a great PA, the damage is pretty high (nothing earth-shattering at lv30, it's just a really solid move) and you deal it ALL without knockback. If you're only fighting 2-3 targets up close, you can launch them all, punch on one a bit, and have Zubba charging again just as they get up and try doing something to you. Don't write off Bogga Danga either, Bogga Robado's better maybe if you compare just the first move, and against 1 target.

[MELGRIN]

Buten Shuren-zan ,Dus Majarra , and Anga Redda, are my 3 fdavorite PA's. With those three i never find my self running into a problem fighting anything. ( other than flying or hard to reach enemies.)

[biggabertha]

Dus Robado's last hit's that powerful? Wow... I haven't really used that last part of the combo often when I play because I like to keep all the enemies around me rather than sending several of them careening away from me. I suppose that pretty much makes Dus Robado the stronger one overall if you compare PA to PA but over time, maybe Tornado Break would be better suited because it can outlast Dus Robado.

It's a shame really, Dus Robado looks quite cool whereas Tornado Break looks so plain... Does anyone else think that you shouldn't be able to walk straight after spamming four or five weapon's worth of it amongst enemies while relatively stationary?

[Mewnie]

For flash, Dus Robado is king, but for pure AoE, I'll take Tornado Break. It's cheaper and you can
spam 1-2, 1-2, 1-2 over and over and over. Critters will keep swarming you while techers can
just nuke at their leisure. :3

[Hrith]

On 2007-12-09 11:32, Ragolismine wrote:
If you think jabroga is only useful on bosses then you truely havent seen someone use it at lv 40.

It is just as bad as slicer only slower and less range.Slicer is not that impressive, either.
It's very good, but there's better in too many situations.

On 2007-12-09 12:53, Ezodagrom wrote:
checking the jp psu wiki, tornado break lvl 30 has 170% ATP on the 1st part, 180% ATP on the 2nd part and 210% ATP on the 3rd part. Dus Robado lvl 30 has 230% ATP on the 1st part, 170% ATP on the 2nd and 240% ATP on the 3rd.

I still think robado is stronger than tornado (in terms of just power), but doesn't mean that it's better (tornado's faster, uses less pp)Except you forgot the # of targets >_>

Dus Robado's damage is multiplied by 3.
Tornado Break's damage is multiplied by 4.

And Tornado Break is one of the very few skills that make getting more than 3 targets withing range easy.

[Calsetes]

As a sword-type using Fortefighter, and having both shop-based PA's, I'd say this if you only buy 1 for each weapon:

Sword: Tornado Break, since I think hitting more guys around you is better than guys in a line-ish group in front of you.

Twin Saber: Assault Crush, because it's strong, it's pretty fast, and the third combo part you can turn and rail an enemy that's behind you, and if I recall correctly, it knocks guys into the air but not away.

Saber: Gravity Strike, since the damage seems to be pretty good and while I think it knocks them away (hard to tell with my connection since everything takes place like 3 seconds after I do it), it doesn't send them up in the air, so anyone using bullets and stuff won't have to follow it flying upwards randomly.

That's my 2 cents on those 3 weapons. In the end, just go with what you like best. If you love the "super-cool-looking PA that does 1 damage", then go ahead and use that.

[SolomonGrundy]

As a fF, I'd stick with Tornado Break. As a PT/WT I'd go with the Dus Robado - the # of hits helps offset the lower ATP of these jobs. Cost isn't much of an issue.

As a FiGunner you could use either, or just SPAM majarra like everyone else http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif (sry, could not resist)

[MrBeans]

I don't like assault crush because of the outrageous use of of 32 (40 if not fF) just to get to the last combo.

[MELGRIN]

I would reccomend just going and watching some PA videos and seeing which nes you like the best, because with a FF you cant really go wrong with any PA's to lvl. They all are good in there own situation. Except the 1k PA for the twin claws. DO NOT GET THAT