AotI: What do forces get from new changes?

[ViciousXUSMC]

I was looking thru the official sega page and saw numerous changes to the game to make it easier, PP regen with weapon swings, critical hits when you time your attacks correctly, and even blocking and counter attacks.

All of these changes sound like they are meele exclusive or at least only really benefit meele fighters to a great extent. Do the poor lonely forces get any great upgrades in the new expansion?

I bet we still dont get multi hit dmg vs multi part mobs or bosses with our AoE spells ether do we?

[Mystil]

A downward spiral.

Specifics: lvl40 attack techs.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mystil on 2007-12-09 23:04 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mystil on 2007-12-09 23:05 ]</font>

[Zorafim]

To hurt.

[drizzle]

Buff me, newman.

[Laranas]

Yup, you get regen for every enemy you hit. Twin Daggers never run out

[Kerschweiser]

Bonus regen if you time the JA.

[Angelo]

I THINK Forces can counter their Technics with Just Counter. I know you can with bullets. Should be useful for Newmans and their mad evasion skillz.

[Laranas]

On 2007-12-09 23:56, Angelo wrote:
I THINK Forces can counter their Technics with Just Counter. I know you can with bullets. Should be useful for Newmans and their mad evasion skillz.

You can, but it doesn't critical like a melee skill does.

[Alisha]

if forces got just counter effects with techs any continuous cast tech such as dambarta...well you know what would happen.

[Angelo]

On 2007-12-09 23:58, Laranas wrote:

On 2007-12-09 23:56, Angelo wrote:
I THINK Forces can counter their Technics with Just Counter. I know you can with bullets. Should be useful for Newmans and their mad evasion skillz.

You can, but it doesn't critical like a melee skill does.



Is it just a damage boost then? Or does it do absolutely nothing?

[Laranas]

On 2007-12-10 00:19, Alisha wrote:
if forces got just counter effects with techs any continuous cast tech such as dambarta...well you know what would happen.
They could rival Fortefighter damage? Oh noes.

[Lolitecher]

Yeah, unfortunately like before, evading more often than not just tends to disrupt the Technic being casted, although the counter cast helps in a pinch.

I love the expansion, but being primary a Force player, the lack of new features to play with is a bit depressing, especially for offline. My character was carried over from Extra Mode with the Uransara in hand, and at end game, she still has the exact same Uransara, because apparently they saw it fit not to make any better wands available offline for no apparent reason, at least none that have been discovered on this side of the planet yet.

Somehow, they manage to introduce a whole stable full of Skills and Bullets, but not a single new Technic that wasn't already known with the first game. I appreciate the level 40+ Technics, but the leveling curve for Technics is so ridiculously steep compared to skills and bullets (Seriously, you can level Twin Penetration to LV50 in one day... how about Rentis and Dizas? You'd be lucky if you could level it past 21+ in half of a year) that any casual gamer will long be finished with the offline portion of the game before seeing anything past level 30+. The only thing note worthy for Forces really are Madoogs which do admittedly add a great deal of variety to the game, but they excel at support Techs due to high PP over actual TP, so even they are not entirely Force specific (Plus Hunters and Rangers offline can use up to A-Rank).

That being said, the stuff they added to the game in general plus how they expanded Forces offline to be able to use Grenade Launchers, Double Sabers, Twin Daggers and of course S-Rank in whips, cards and bows is awesome, but it's more like borrowing from other classes' realms than it is promoting the use of good old fashion "Pyro Technics".

What I would really have loved to see added as a game mechanic is if Forces could charge their spells by holding down the attack button (excluding spells you already hold the button down for and support spells) to increase power and range. It would add a completely new dimension to Force play mechanics. They already have the animation and game mechanic foundations to do it as equipping different units shows, they just need to make it controllable. A little Grants action or a unit that allows Forces to multi part hit bosses wouldn't hurt either ^_^

[drizzle]

Just Counter with techs is 100% pointless.

[ilovetypemoon]

On 2007-12-10 00:23, Lolitecher wrote:
Yeah, unfortunately like before, evading more often than not just tends to disrupt the Technic being casted, although the counter cast helps in a pinch.

I love the expansion, but being primary a Force player, the lack of new features to play with is a bit depressing, especially for offline. My character was carried over from Extra Mode with the Uransara in hand, and at end game, she still has the exact same Uransara, because apparently they saw it fit not to make any better wands available offline for no apparent reason, at least none that have been discovered on this side of the planet yet.

Somehow, they manage to introduce a whole stable full of Skills and Bullets, but not a single new Technic that wasn't already known with the first game. I appreciate the level 40+ Technics, but the leveling curve for Technics is so ridiculously steep compared to skills and bullets (Seriously, you can level Twin Penetration to LV50 in one day... how about Rentis and Dizas? You'd be lucky if you could level it past 21+ in half of a year) that any casual gamer will long be finished with the offline portion of the game before seeing anything past level 30+. The only thing note worthy for Forces really are Madoogs which do admittedly add a great deal of variety to the game, but they excel at support Techs due to high PP over actual TP, so even they are not entirely Force specific (Plus Hunters and Rangers offline can use up to A-Rank).

That being said, the stuff they added to the game in general plus how they expanded Forces offline to be able to use Grenade Launchers, Double Sabers, Twin Daggers and of course S-Rank in whips, cards and bows is awesome, but it's more like borrowing from other classes' realms than it is promoting the use of good old fashion "Pyro Technics".

What I would really have loved to see added as a game mechanic is if Forces could charge their spells by holding down the attack button (excluding spells you already hold the button down for and support spells) to increase power and range. It would add a completely new dimension to Force play mechanics. They already have the animation and game mechanic foundations to do it as equipping different units shows, they just need to make it controllable. A little Grants action or a unit that allows Forces to multi part hit bosses wouldn't hurt either ^_^




That is actually an awesome idea. Tech charging would give FT an amazing power boost with their rods and lvl 40 techs. Sigh, if only Sega listen to individual ideas more.

[Krisan]

On 2007-12-10 01:01, drizzle wrote:
Just Counter with techs is 100% pointless.


I don't know why people keep saying this.. You still counter the attack, as in attack immediately upon evasion. Normally you have to wait a few seconds at best before you can do anything, but with Just Counter you are much less likely to run into interruptions between spell castings..

Just try it with Gi- techs sometime, you'll definitely start to see how this can be useful to Forces. It doesn't have to increase damage or boost stats to be handy people..


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Krisan on 2007-12-10 03:27 ]</font>

[Dragwind]

fT's are still great with the highest TP modifier coupled with lvl 40 techs. That's powerful enough, how much easier do you want it to be?

[ilovetypemoon]

On 2007-12-10 03:32, Dragwind wrote:
fT's are still great with the highest TP modifier coupled with lvl 40 techs. That's powerful enough, how much easier do you want it to be?



It's still not enough to match a FF with Just Attacked PA's. Plus, tech charging would shoot off more powerful techs but it sacrifices casting speed. It would be great to use in situations where you have to keep moving to avoid getting hit by quicker enemies rather than stationary enemies.

...I feel like I described a megaman game or something.

[demon_reikou]

On 2007-12-10 03:32, Dragwind wrote:
fT's are still great with the highest TP modifier coupled with lvl 40 techs. That's powerful enough, how much easier do you want it to be?



And I take it you've never leveled a FT before. Our tp modifier can't hold a candle to the way we use our techs, and to the way it hits the enemies. Calling FT easy? I've yet to see easy mode for FT, but I'm sure 90% of the psu population will let me know when they call for nerf.

[CelestialBlade]

Nobody's supposed to match Fortefighter DPS. They have no variety and they have to get up close to do any damage, so they deserve the DPS. Rangers and Forces have the luxury of attacking from afar, and any good Ranger/Force should be able to dodge most attacks.

I agree with the Rod boost planned, but other than that, fTs don't need a whole lot more.

[ilovetypemoon]

By tech charging, I'm imagining something like this. XD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CCtEsGyQIw

[Alisha]

FT shouldnt be able to match FF damage. FF does nothing but damage. FT does damage heals and supports.

[ilovetypemoon]

On 2007-12-10 05:39, Alisha wrote:
FT shouldnt be able to match FF damage. FF does nothing but damage. FT does damage heals and supports.



I guess I should have said FT's need to at least out DPS AT's.

[ViciousXUSMC]

Its not about dps for me, it was just about something "new" I have had alot of time off but having new things can help draw you to the game again. If i was a fighter the idea of mastering a new timing system to crit hits, and counters, and the idea of faster PA lvling because I get PP back with swings is a huge draw to come back to the game or breath a new life into it.

But I have always been a force, its just my class because I like the challenge and I like being able to have a support role and still dish out some great damage (still wish we could multi hit bosses tho, thats one thing from pso they should add back) I am affraid tho only getting lvl 40 tech is not really a new thing, its the same old stuff with possibly a new animation and after spending my entire previous life just trying to get most techs to 30 (I am going to have a nightmare about barta and zonde now...) lvling to 40 is not much of a reason to want to come play again.

I think they should back out and look at the big picture and try to add new "content" to all classes, also correct me if I am wrong but Hunter/Ranger also have lvl 40 Pa's now too right?

[_K1_]

On 2007-12-10 05:00, Typheros wrote:
Nobody's supposed to match Fortefighter DPS. They have no variety and they have to get up close to do any damage, so they deserve the DPS. Rangers and Forces have the luxury of attacking from afar, and any good Ranger/Force should be able to dodge most attacks.


Fortefighters have slicers. They can very easily stay far back from the fray and do superior damage. None of the melee classes have to be on the front lines anymore.

[Akaimizu]

Well, that goes without saying. Slicers are this game's new Spread Needle. SEGA might (and I mean might) adjust them, in the future. Though I have to admit, it does make it a little tougher on gunners and forces when the fighters use slicers. Too often, it makes everything a rush to get to the mobs before they're all dead now. At least the balancer for other fast-moving ranged attacks was the lack of DPS to kill mobs before others arrived.

Well, that, and the fact that there's still the mechgun glitch. But just a little different than before.

It's no surprise why, more often than not, you see me running as if to try to be the first to a fight. I know that I'm only going to weaken the monsters, not remove them completely and not allow the rest of the party to get their hits in. Not that I have a choice, my GT can't do damage that high.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-12-10 07:55 ]</font>

[desturel]

On 2007-12-10 03:25, Krisan wrote:

On 2007-12-10 01:01, drizzle wrote:
Just Counter with techs is 100% pointless.


I don't know why people keep saying this.. You still counter the attack, as in attack immediately upon evasion.

Techer's always had this ability though. If you started a spell cast and then blocked, the spell would still come off. Then you could cast again. That part hasn't changed at all. Just now you get a fancy animation paired with it and save about .5 seconds on the recast.

[Akaimizu]

True. Techers kind of got that part exclusively. It would've been neat if they got at least a minor damage boost for doing it since *started* techs still cast. It's a bit better for everything else since bullets and melee were the main ones who lost time from a block, and if they started a move and blocked, it got cancelled.

[Telina]

I dont' think any techer wants to totally match the damage or the dps of a fighter class. All that Techers want is to do a bit of damage greater than a single strike of a melee character.

My example. Last hit of Anga Redda. my 75/15 fortefighter hits for 6k on two targets. you all can keep the dps caused by the hitting of two characters as well as ALL of the hits leading up to that final hit( mine end up being about 2-2.5k). all i think techers ask is to do a lot of damage in bursts. i'd settle for hitting 6k damage on any monster with diga or foie. even if the cast was slow as hell. Looking at the % modifier for my Foie at 36 i think its 275% thats a little higher than all the displayed PA's hunters get, but the hunters get the increased % modifier with the subsequent hits on PA's. which i believe where the root of the disclaimer lies

Noone wants to match fighter damage (as they would be useless then), and i do think that no one should (noone should play a useless class), but force's should be more than crowd control. and special effects. :

[desturel]

On 2007-12-10 07:51, Akaimizu wrote:
It's no surprise why, more often than not, you see me running as if to try to be the first to a fight.


As a guntecher, barta is your friend. You don't have to run quite as far as you would with a debuff and it goes fast enough to tag all of the enemies in a straight line which are the ones being hit by the slicer. Since you are just tagging, lvl 20 barta is more than good enough. Plus it's a bit easier to aim than the slicer PA. The biggest problem is that barta gets stopped by walls while Chikki goes through most walls to hit the creatures on the other side.

[Akaimizu]

It's always a tricky balance there. Considering how things change between normal monsters and bosses. Acrotechers can do nice damage, but they *need* either 4+ monsters or the big guys to have multiple hit zones to do their damage. A Fortetecher lands what they land requiring just 1 single spot.

Gunners are usually regulated to status effect, control. Unless they're a Fortegunner, for the bigger damage to help match the other Fortes. On bosses, it's generally for them to shoot the weak points to match the damage of the others....ok...maybe not Fortefighter when the monster is grounded. They are still quite nice when it comes to support spells, too. Can't forget or underestimate that.

[ThEoRy]

On 2007-12-10 01:01, drizzle wrote:
Just Counter with techs is 100% pointless.


Wrong. Obviously you've never used it so you don't know what you are talking about.

It most certainly does have a point. DPS. With just counter while surrounded by a large mob of enemies and casting Gi series techs, a ForTetecher will do ridiculously well.

[Akaimizu]

On 2007-12-10 08:15, desturel wrote:

On 2007-12-10 07:51, Akaimizu wrote:
It's no surprise why, more often than not, you see me running as if to try to be the first to a fight.


As a guntecher, barta is your friend. You don't have to run quite as far as you would with a debuff and it goes fast enough to tag all of the enemies in a straight line which are the ones being hit by the slicer. Since you are just tagging, lvl 20 barta is more than good enough. Plus it's a bit easier to aim than the slicer PA. The biggest problem is that barta gets stopped by walls while Chikki goes through most walls to hit the creatures on the other side.



Barta has very limited use. In most cases, my speed for drilling the mobs with a Twin Handgun is better for tagging. Plus I can move while using them. Anything that stops me before I can use it is a little too late for a slicer party, especially since Barta travels much slower than bullets.

[Turambar]

Techers don't necessarily need FF dps. But they do need to be able to have greater dps than AT tech wise. That part is somewhat absurd.

[Mewnie]

If AoE and Line techs could hit multiple points on bosses, that would be hot.

[physic]

uhh slicers arent fast and require you to do like 3 attacks to get the big dmg, if your a force or a ra who cant hit a mob 3-5 times before someone can finish a slicer combo, you need to go back to training. Seriously, laser is 240% dmg at cap an a 10 star cannon is 586 atp.

How many of you forces have tried barta at level 40? lower multiplier but yall got more tp than we have atp. zonde anyone? megid? maybe the skills you have ignored have new use. Far as FT vs AT well a boost to rods may solve that issue.

I see the point of the poster though, regardless of strength, you want new things to do for your class, and while there are new melee options, and will probably be new bullets, and many new weapons for melee and ranger, force seems out in the cold. Then again force is the only one who gets new visual effects at 31 and 41 and thats across what 38? spells? So you do have something the others dont, i would would rather have more gameplay changes though, but thats part of why i picked Melee over spells

[JAFO22000]

On 2007-12-10 08:10, Telina wrote:
I dont' think any techer wants to totally match the damage or the dps of a fighter class. All that Techers want is to do a bit of damage greater than a single strike of a melee character.

My example. Last hit of Anga Redda. my 75/15 fortefighter hits for 6k on two targets. you all can keep the dps caused by the hitting of two characters as well as ALL of the hits leading up to that final hit( mine end up being about 2-2.5k). all i think techers ask is to do a lot of damage in bursts. i'd settle for hitting 6k damage on any monster with diga or foie. even if the cast was slow as hell. Looking at the % modifier for my Foie at 36 i think its 275% thats a little higher than all the displayed PA's hunters get, but the hunters get the increased % modifier with the subsequent hits on PA's. which i believe where the root of the disclaimer lies

Noone wants to match fighter damage (as they would be useless then), and i do think that no one should (noone should play a useless class), but force's should be more than crowd control. and special effects. :



Well, FT's hold our own in the damage catagory. Ever hit 8 Badiras with Dambarta 31+? At over 1000 HP per hit, targeting 8 of them gives you roughly 8000 HP/tick. Multiply that by 5 ticks (cause they die before you can get to 8!) and you just did 40,000 HP of damage in less than 5 seconds. No class can match that. How about Rabarta on Fire Vandas? Or Damfoie on Ice Olgohmans? Or Foie on Kamatozes?

Also, think of the added status effect of certain spells. Being able to help the rangers out by statusing PLUS dealing some decent damage to help the hunters out is a great help to any party. FT's aren't the top damage dealers nor are they the top status effect applier, but being able to do either job decently while also buffing/debuffing and healing/reversering makes it a versitile and fun job type.....IMO, of course.

[Telina]

Barta i have at 32 and Zonde i have at 36. And you can't compare atp and TP as they seem to work on differing rates. I.E one TP =/= the same as one atp. IF by some reason it did, my TP with a foie spell would hit with the force of a force (lol) with about 7.5k TP and i still only hit for 2.1-2.2k with foie. 3.3-3.5 for criticals.

i do about 1.2k a hit with zonde per monster on awoken serpent and that damage has kept me sane thusfar.

And as far as the 3 attacks go untill you get the "big dmg" that would be true, and would not be a problem if there was only one fighter. but when you have two or three the mobs die before the "big dmg" even comes into play. four and five slicers is like putting a steak in a lion pit and just watching. I imagine even the fighters might have some trouble hitting everything in that situation lol

[majan]

I don't think fortetecher as a class needs a buff,but they sure as hell should have made the gap between them and acrotechers much more noticeable.the fact that acrotechers have higher buff capabilities and a fairly high TP stat,along with of course the fast cast animation, makes them very comparable to fts in terms of technic output.this should not be.fortetechers don't need a buff,they need to legitimately surpass acrotechers in technic damage potential.

the rod buff should fix this,and the master classes probably will too,but I think fts should get a wee bit higher tp multiplier since they probably won't want to cause the uproar that wiuld occur in nerfing the entire AT class.I don't think its asking a lot to,as a FORTEtecher,have the best potential for technic damage out of all classes,bar none.

[Akaimizu]

On 2007-12-10 08:36, Telina wrote:
And as far as the 3 attacks go untill you get the "big dmg" that would be true, and would not be a problem if there was only one fighter. but when you have two or three the mobs die before the "big dmg" even comes into play. four and five slicers is like putting a steak in a lion pit and just watching. I imagine even the fighters might have some trouble hitting everything in that situation lol



That's precisely what I was talking about, in the first place. It's a bit regulated when there's only one using it. Heck, two of them get you worried that you can hit stuff.

Of course, all of this is moot if they're a figunner with Double Saber. Fast travel plus Slicer equals "all to myself". Thing is, things drop really fast to them, so as a gunner it's now imperative that you reach the monster as fast as the Slicer user to get your shots in. This was not quite the issue, of the past. This is compared to, if I reach any single location (that isn't some high-lvl versus a simple rank C-mission) others have a nice long time to reach the place and finish them off.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-12-10 08:58 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-12-09 22:58, ViciousXUSMC wrote:
All of these changes sound like they are meele exclusive or at least only really benefit meele fighters to a great extent. Do the poor lonely forces get any great upgrades in the new expansion?


- lv31 attack techs are bigger and more awesome
- all techs (most importantly: Dam-series) cause stagger
- whips (enormously multi-target, procs SE) and tech mags (very fast, high PP) as new weapon types
- GRM wands and rods with higher TP

[Telina]

after reading your post there majan, i turned on my psu and compared some stats of characters and photon arts. Surprisingly i do agree that Ft needs no buffs to compensate, but what i do find necessary is the reworking of the TP stat. If they made it equal to ATP i think everything would be sweet and derogatory topics towards techers would cease.

See the way i look at it, the fighters derive their damage from the subsequent hits of their PA, the hits that use an increased yet hidden ATP modifier. EX. is the slicers(not the topic here though). If TP worked on the same level as ATP, then foie would behitting like a fortefigher would be hitting with about 7k atp. BUT only that high because of the single hit modifier of foie. barta and zonde would have significantly less obviously.

If anyone takes the time and compares the % modifiers on the photon arts it seems that no single PA is outragously different from any spell pa. The whole problem we always run into is that one ATP carries more of an impact than one TP. If they were weighted the same, then we'd have similar (NOT identical) numbers at a first glance. Fighters would still out DPS forces because of their successive hits. But as it being able to dominate the game with only one type of offense is a little short sighted, but if i could predict what SEGA was thinking for the future i sure as hell wouldn't be here right now. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[StkDrowsy]

On 2007-12-10 09:15, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-12-09 22:58, ViciousXUSMC wrote:
All of these changes sound like they are meele exclusive or at least only really benefit meele fighters to a great extent. Do the poor lonely forces get any great upgrades in the new expansion?


- lv31 attack techs are bigger and more awesome
- all techs (most importantly: Dam-series) cause stagger
- whips (enormously multi-target, procs SE) and tech mags (very fast, high PP) as new weapon types
- GRM wands and rods with higher TP



-becouse most ft use whips......whips are mostly a AT weapon not ft.....maybe if we could get 21+ whip pa's

[majan]

On 2007-12-10 09:17, Telina wrote:
after reading your post there majan, i turned on my psu and compared some stats of characters and photon arts. Surprisingly i do agree that Ft needs no buffs to compensate, but what i do find necessary is the reworking of the TP stat. If they made it equal to ATP i think everything would be sweet and derogatory topics towards techers would cease.

See the way i look at it, the fighters derive their damage from the subsequent hits of their PA, the hits that use an increased yet hidden ATP modifier. EX. is the slicers(not the topic here though). If TP worked on the same level as ATP, then foie would behitting like a fortefigher would be hitting with about 7k atp. BUT only that high because of the single hit modifier of foie. barta and zonde would have significantly less obviously.

If anyone takes the time and compares the % modifiers on the photon arts it seems that no single PA is outragously different from any spell pa. The whole problem we always run into is that one ATP carries more of an impact than one TP. If they were weighted the same, then we'd have similar (NOT identical) numbers at a first glance. Fighters would still out DPS forces because of their successive hits. But as it being able to dominate the game with only one type of offense is a little short sighted, but if i could predict what SEGA was thinking for the future i sure as hell wouldn't be here right now. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



yes,but you guys are comparing atp and TP and the modifiers.spells and skills work quite differently,so its difficult to compare.as you said,the sucessive hits are wat mainly makes the difference.I think fts should get a tp buff not for the sake of being stronger,I think they're fine the wy they are.just some clearer separation from ATs is all I ask.as there is no question who can do the elite in melee damage(among acro fighgunner wartecher vs. fortefighter) there should be no question between ats and fts.as of now,its way too close.

but theres a rod buff scheduled.I can't wait to see the details on that.

[Telina]

this is gonna be WAAAAY of topic, but does anyone have details to this rod buff thats happening......this week? i think? people are saying its gonna redefine casting, and some are saying its just gonna be a tweak on the ele % you get from stacking spells. Or is it just one of those magical things sega throws into our midst and laughs as we try to guess what they're up to?

[desturel]

On 2007-12-10 08:20, Akaimizu wrote:
Barta has very limited use. In most cases, my speed for drilling the mobs with a Twin Handgun is better for tagging.


It completely depends on how many creatures there are. If you have 8 badira on the screen, barta is the way to go. If you just have 4 jishagara, then twins are nice and mobile for taging four enemies. Honestly, unless it's badira, ageeta or other small creatures, I can normally tag them without any problems even with slicers going full blaze.

Booma, Vanda, Kakwane, etc normally take a full combo to kill with 4 slicer users and a gunner which means as long as I'm running in first and throwing barta will hit everything. If I tried using the twins, I would only tag one or two enemies before they keeled over. Maybe you are using twin penetration, but I haven't seen you use that PA. Normally twin mayalee.

With a Jarba and other large melee resistant creatures, I can tag with anything so it doesn't really matter if I'm using twin hanguns or diga. Ubakrada and other large multi target creatures are prone to Jabroga/Spiral/Gravity/Buten/whatever powerful multitarget PA you want to use, and die pretty quickly, so tagging them with guns is normally preferred. Jabroga isn't that quick and slicers aren't the fastest way to take those creatures out.

[Akaimizu]

Well, if I can reach them first, that's a moot point. Of course I can hit everything with the twins. I'm just talking about the times I'm lagging a bit behind. That is, if the slicer guys get there first. I normally can tag a whole spread of guys by the time one single Barta can get there.

Twin MayaLee, I often use as the first quick distributor on the mobs, and then I'm instantly switching to the elemental. I don't have any quick casting mods, but if they don't make a difference, then that is kind of moot.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-12-10 09:52 ]</font>

[Shardio]

On 2007-12-10 09:24, StkDrowsy wrote:

On 2007-12-10 09:15, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-12-09 22:58, ViciousXUSMC wrote:
All of these changes sound like they are meele exclusive or at least only really benefit meele fighters to a great extent. Do the poor lonely forces get any great upgrades in the new expansion?


- lv31 attack techs are bigger and more awesome
- all techs (most importantly: Dam-series) cause stagger
- whips (enormously multi-target, procs SE) and tech mags (very fast, high PP) as new weapon types
- GRM wands and rods with higher TP



-becouse most ft use whips......whips are mostly a AT weapon not ft.....maybe if we could get 21+ whip pa's



Actually, whips are a WT weapon http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Laranas]

On 2007-12-10 09:53, Shardio wrote:

On 2007-12-10 09:24, StkDrowsy wrote:

On 2007-12-10 09:15, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-12-09 22:58, ViciousXUSMC wrote:
All of these changes sound like they are meele exclusive or at least only really benefit meele fighters to a great extent. Do the poor lonely forces get any great upgrades in the new expansion?


- lv31 attack techs are bigger and more awesome
- all techs (most importantly: Dam-series) cause stagger
- whips (enormously multi-target, procs SE) and tech mags (very fast, high PP) as new weapon types
- GRM wands and rods with higher TP



-becouse most ft use whips......whips are mostly a AT weapon not ft.....maybe if we could get 21+ whip pa's



Actually, whips are a WT weapon http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

This man is right, listen to him.

From the thread and my personal views, I don't think FT needs a boost, I think AT needs a nerf. "Advanced type specializing in support. Has various combat abilities, and TECHNIC focus." Well I can see where the Lv40 support comes from, and the decent selection of 1-handed weapons. At Lv1 (since i haven't leveled them), their TP is a stone's throw away from a Fortetechers, and 1 higher than a Lv11 Wartechers. Their DFP isn't bad at all (27 shy of the Lv11 Wartechers once again, at Lv1), and their EVP bonus is pretty high. Wait, wasn't Wartecher the defense-based class? And Fortetecher the Nuke-based class? So why is AT in immediately behind both of them in stats? I didn't compare ATP since it looks about the same as Guntecher, but it's clear they're rivaling classes who specialize in certain things... in that specialty.

Hopefully things sort themselves out when WT gets the claws and knuckles, and FT gets the rod boost... I still think WT should get an END boost of some sort too

Rock is fine, nerf Scissors.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Laranas on 2007-12-10 10:15 ]</font>

[Akaimizu]

Funny enough. I still remember the day I got the shock for how much attack tech damage an Acrotecher does. It didn't quite dawn on me as much until I fought De Roi Le with the Acrotecher using Foie. Add on a nice Shooting mag on your shoulder, and we're talking some seriously quick damage output. Practically made me jealous as a GT, looking at my AT-self. Still, when I saw that I was missing my much-loved 21+ bullets and my traps...the jealousy faded quite quickly.

[Sychosis]

On 2007-12-10 09:15, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-12-09 22:58, ViciousXUSMC wrote:
All of these changes sound like they are meele exclusive or at least only really benefit meele fighters to a great extent. Do the poor lonely forces get any great upgrades in the new expansion?


- lv31 attack techs are bigger and more awesome
- all techs (most importantly: Dam-series) cause stagger
- whips (enormously multi-target, procs SE) and tech mags (very fast, high PP) as new weapon types
- GRM wands and rods with higher TP



- Which does nothing more than add to slowdown.
- EVERYTHING staggers.
- Whips are TERRIBLE on FTs.
- Rods are only B rank, and the fact that A rank wands outclass S rank rods detracts from FT's exclusive access to S rank rods.

[Akaimizu]

Not everything staggers. I have a whole pallette of stuff that doesn't stagger.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-12-10 10:14, Laranas wrote:
Their DFP isn't bad at all (27 shy of the Lv11 Wartechers once again, at Lv1), and their EVP bonus is pretty high. Wait, wasn't Wartecher the defense-based class? And Fortetecher the Nuke-based class? So why is AT in immediately behind both of them in stats? I didn't compare ATP since it looks about the same as Guntecher, but it's clear they're rivaling classes who specialize in certain things... in that specialty.


Wait... Fighgunners have always had better ATP than Fortegunner and pretty good ATA... WHERE IS THE HUEG ARGUMENT ABOUT WHO'S THE BETTER GUNNER?! I WANT DRAMA TOO!!

ProTip: look at class skill caps.

[StkDrowsy]

On 2007-12-10 10:34, Sychosis wrote:

On 2007-12-10 09:15, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-12-09 22:58, ViciousXUSMC wrote:
All of these changes sound like they are meele exclusive or at least only really benefit meele fighters to a great extent. Do the poor lonely forces get any great upgrades in the new expansion?


- lv31 attack techs are bigger and more awesome
- all techs (most importantly: Dam-series) cause stagger
- whips (enormously multi-target, procs SE) and tech mags (very fast, high PP) as new weapon types
- GRM wands and rods with higher TP



- Which does nothing more than add to slowdown.
- EVERYTHING staggers.
- Whips are TERRIBLE on FTs.
- Rods are only B rank, and the fact that A rank wands outclass S rank rods detracts from FT's exclusive access to S rank rods.



finnaly some one who knows what their talking about, when aoi came out, i quickly got a whip and the pa....after about 45 seconds, i was like this damage blows and o wait...level 10 pa.....quickly scraped it to a noob for like double what i payed and went back to wands ands madoogs. i think rods need a boost, becouse ive seen acrotechers keep up with my 9/9 serdotes, and 2/10 halarods, it was kinda dispointing to see themonly hitting a little less then me and being able to cast faster. ft doesnt nessarcly need a boost but AT deff needs a major nerf, and rods need a either speed or damage boost.

[Akaimizu]

As both a GT and an AT; I wouldn't be opposed to an adjustment. To tell the truth, I was saying that I kind of have a love/hate affair with the class. Playing it does make me feel a bit powerful, but at the same time, it kind of fuels my want for more power. This wasn't the case with the GT, where I basically settled for a support build and was happier for it since as long as I could be seen as a good support, I know I did my job. But as an Acro, I definitely felt more like a strong poweruser along with the potential for the best support techs.

[ViciousXUSMC]

Speaking of these ultra cool new higher lvl tech, do we have a video of them anywhere so I can see what there is to look forward too?

Madoogs are the new mag like weapons that are basically a different kind of wand right? (I have not gone online yet only playing offline mode and found some mag creature in the shop that goes in my offhand and holds techs with a cast speed of what seems similar to a wand)

[Sychosis]

On 2007-12-10 10:36, Akaimizu wrote:
Not everything staggers. I have a whole pallette of stuff that doesn't stagger.



Like what? I'm honestly curious. Everything I've used post expansion has staggered. Machineguns, slicers, megid, everything.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I see the problems of FTs not doing as much damage as ATs, but I don't think there's a need to nerf ATs. It would be nice to have another class that can do nukes, even if just as a side. I wanted a class for an alt that can do both melee and magic, and I don't want to be stuck with FT because of its fragility. Besides, its a racial benefit for Newmans if they can take their talents to more than just one class, so nerfing AT would not be a good idea IMO.

[physic]

On 2007-12-10 08:36, Telina wrote:
Barta i have at 32 and Zonde i have at 36. And you can't compare atp and TP as they seem to work on differing rates. I.E one TP =/= the same as one atp. IF by some reason it did, my TP with a foie spell would hit with the force of a force (lol) with about 7.5k TP and i still only hit for 2.1-2.2k with foie. 3.3-3.5 for criticals.

i do about 1.2k a hit with zonde per monster on awoken serpent and that damage has kept me sane thusfar.

And as far as the 3 attacks go untill you get the "big dmg" that would be true, and would not be a problem if there was only one fighter. but when you have two or three the mobs die before the "big dmg" even comes into play. four and five slicers is like putting a steak in a lion pit and just watching. I imagine even the fighters might have some trouble hitting everything in that situation lol



I still contend the real problem is your playing with level 100+ FF on level 55 and 75 zones, its like playing pso on ult with level 160 players, of course everything is going to die fast, to be honest the goal shifts as you get closer to cap, to rare hunting , in which case maximizing how fast you can kill is the real goal.

slicer pa for my level 108 beast FF is like this reg attack 500 JAed first part 1.5k Jaed second part 2.4k x2 in the time it takes for me to do that, how many zondes/megids/bartas can you sling? how many ra skills could you get off in that time? To be honest when i play as FF in a pt with other level 100+s if i lag behind the stuff gets killed before i can tag or touch it as well, blaming slicers is just the new fake answer.

Im not saying FF arent powerful now, im saying that other fortes also deal dmg pretty well, and the whole die before tagging has more to do with being forced to play low level zones than because somebody is overpowered, everyone in teh party is probably overpowered.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-12-10 10:34, Sychosis wrote:

- EVERYTHING staggers.
- Whips are TERRIBLE on FTs.
- Rods are only B rank, and the fact that A rank wands outclass S rank rods detracts from FT's exclusive access to S rank rods.



- ... and here I thought having a 6x4 hit PA with Just Attack and element mods would be worthwhile on bosses or large multi-target monsters. I guess I'm surprised.

- I know EVERYTHING staggers, and MOST attack techs staggered even before AOI... but now Damfoie and Dammegid do too, so you can get huge tech element damage mods against another 2 elements, and you're relatively safe while landing massive amounts of SE4 burn. Stupid me for thinking doing all that extra damage was an improvement. QQ

- About the rods... you realize that the GRM 6* bow outdamages Yohmei 9* at max grinds, right? If the same's true for rods it's an upgrade unless you've already got a bunch of grinded S-ranks.

[Akaimizu]

On 2007-12-10 11:03, Sychosis wrote:

On 2007-12-10 10:36, Akaimizu wrote:
Not everything staggers. I have a whole pallette of stuff that doesn't stagger.



Like what? I'm honestly curious. Everything I've used post expansion has staggered. Machineguns, slicers, megid, everything.



You do realize that your pallette is almost completely different than mine. Yes, Machineguns do stagger. I normally didn't carry them, but they do have a glitch but I'm not counting the glitch. All of my other GT guns don't stagger or slow the enemy down much to even call it a stagger. They land, the monster still goes about its business, attacks, or cast spells; if they aren't too weak to survive the first attack, that is.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-12-10 11:24 ]</font>

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-12-10 11:22, Akaimizu wrote:

On 2007-12-10 11:03, Sychosis wrote:

On 2007-12-10 10:36, Akaimizu wrote:
Not everything staggers. I have a whole pallette of stuff that doesn't stagger.

Like what? I'm honestly curious. Everything I've used post expansion has staggered. Machineguns, slicers, megid, everything.

You do realize that your pallette is almost completely different than mine. Yes, Machineguns do stagger. I normally didn't carry them, but they do have a glitch but I'm not counting the glitch. All of my other GT guns don't stagger or slow the enemy down much to even call it a stagger. They land, the monster still goes about its business, attacks, or cast spells; if they aren't too weak to survive the first attack, that is.

Can't say that my GT has this problem. Everything I use staggers.

[Sychosis]

On 2007-12-10 11:15, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-12-10 10:34, Sychosis wrote:

- EVERYTHING staggers.
- Whips are TERRIBLE on FTs.
- Rods are only B rank, and the fact that A rank wands outclass S rank rods detracts from FT's exclusive access to S rank rods.



- ... and here I thought having a 6x4 hit PA with Just Attack and element mods would be worthwhile on bosses or large multi-target monsters. I guess I'm surprised.

- I know EVERYTHING staggers, and MOST attack techs staggered even before AOI... but now Damfoie and Dammegid do too, so you can get huge tech element damage mods against another 2 elements, and you're relatively safe while landing massive amounts of SE4 burn. Stupid me for thinking doing all that extra damage was an improvement. QQ

- About the rods... you realize that the GRM 6* bow outdamages Yohmei 9* at max grinds, right? If the same's true for rods it's an upgrade unless you've already got a bunch of grinded S-ranks.



- Not with a lolable 60% ATP mod and 66% ATA mod.

- Please stop talking about techers if you never play them. Damfoie does not get an SE increase and Dam tech range is not a safe distance in the slightest. Nor do dam techs create an impervious wall of stagger. Anything that is a threat is going to walk through it whether you like it or not.

- No, the same does not hold true.


On 2007-12-10 11:22, Akaimizu wrote:
You do realize that your pallette is almost completely different than mine.


Which is precisely why I asked, like what? I know Crossbows and twin handguns stagger.

[Akaimizu]

What do you mean by stagger, then? They can still cast techs and do attacks, am I correct? Unless my definition is wrong, somehow.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-12-10 11:35 ]</font>

[Sychosis]

Eh, the enemies kinda flinch. I don't know how else to describe it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Akaimizu]

Kind of flinch is not a real flinch. I was thinking you meant flinch like how they flinch when a Gibarta or something hits them. Kind of flinch is no flinch at all. If the monster can still move around, do stuff, attack, cast stuff, I don't really call it a stagger.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-12-10 11:37 ]</font>

[Sychosis]

Gi tech flinch is the same kind of flinch.

[Turambar]

The "kinda flinch" is actually enough to disrupt their casting animation and make them stop moving when hit. The flinch is not as dramatic as gibarta, but it does its job quite well especially when you're shooting off shots far faster than a cast of gibarta.

I can't say I've seen GTs use non-staggering weapons either.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Turambar on 2007-12-10 11:43 ]</font>

[Akaimizu]

Really. I wonder why they keep casting junk even if I'm filling them full of twin bullets. What gets the job done, and I've done this from the beginning, is the hope the rate will attract their attention away from another target.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-12-10 11:47 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-12-10 11:31, Sychosis wrote:
- Not with a lolable 60% ATP mod and 66% ATA mod.

- Please stop talking about techers if you never play them. Damfoie does not get an SE increase and Dam tech range is not a safe distance in the slightest. Nor do dam techs create an impervious wall of stagger. Anything that is a threat is going to walk through it whether you like it or not.


LOL! Now that's a shitty move, when you JA normal attacks to hit what... 6 targets?... at 100% ATA and 150% ATP. I guess its second move is a lot better?

I've only dambarta, damdiga, and damfoie to mid-tier on an alt... but I stand there watching my fT friend wipe out on Go-Vahra with Damdiga at high levels all the time, and it looks like it does a great job. He's never had any complaints about it.

[desturel]

On 2007-12-10 11:15, panzer_unit wrote:
- I know EVERYTHING staggers, and MOST attack techs staggered even before AOI... but now Damfoie and Dammegid do too, so you can get huge tech element damage mods against another 2 elements, and you're relatively safe while landing massive amounts of SE4 burn. Stupid me for thinking doing all that extra damage was an improvement. QQ

Damfoie is still SE3... crossbows and twin handguns are much safer than damfoie. You can't move while using it. The dam spells are best used against small and midsized aggressive creatures (Go Vahra, Badira, Ageeta, Naval, Kakwane, Vanda Orga, etc), but not as useful against creatures that aren't aggressive/casters (Vanda Mehra, Ice Olgohmon, Jarba, Ozuna, Taguba, Obme, Otsu32 etc), creatures that can run through, around, or under the AOE (Sendillian, Ollaka, Bul Buna, Goshin, Zoona etc), large creatures that ram their way through the ability (Polvahra, Ubakrada, Drua Gohra, Gol Dova etc).



- About the rods... you realize that the GRM 6* bow outdamages Yohmei 9* at max grinds, right? If the same's true for rods it's an upgrade unless you've already got a bunch of grinded S-ranks.


For one thing, Rods and Bows are not in any way compariable. For another, the GRM bows are horrible for fortetecher. They are good for Guntechers, but their low ATA added to fortetechers low ATA mod means you are missing more often than you are hitting.

Ulteri has 300 acc. Hanmateric has 340. Hirokteri has 358 and Hirokteric has 448. Compare that to Izlucre's 171 and Longbowc's 180 and you are better of using a Ulteri as a fT. Guntecher on the other hand can get away with using the GRM bows for their 700+ att at 10 grinds.

[Egg99]

You could argue all day about balance, and people always will, but at the end of the day not too many stop to look at the big picture.

Forces will never have the DPS of a Fortefighter, and that is the way it should be. We aren't meant to outdamage a Fortefighter -- no one is. That's why they have the title in the first place. When I hear people complain about this and not realize how stupid they sound, it makes me angry. It's like buying a Cobalt and expecting it to go as fast as a Ferrari; it's just not gonna happen, and if you truly don't realize that upon purchasing it, then you are, without a doubt, an idiot.

On the flip side, the fact that two shots from a pair of Twin Pistols do double the damage of my Ra spell in half the time also seems a little idiotic to me.

I'm not angry with the "easy mode" that people are saying we have now; I really believe this is how PSU should've been from the get-go. It brings it more in line with what PSO was, and since PSU is a spiritual successor to PSO, that's exactly how it should be. You can actually kill a mob in < 45 seconds now, you can actually solo with a degree of success in a sensible time, and you can actually find rares ffs. However, it seems as though the entire easy mode got thrown on Fighters and Rangers and kind of gave Forces the shaft. At the end of the day, I'm not asking to do obscene damage, but is it really so unrealistic to ask that my multi-target Ra spells be able to actually hit multiple points on enemies? Or even bosses for that matter? It would be such a subtle change that would give Forces quite the boost they deserve without breaking anything.

There's a ton of little ideas like that that could really help us out, but I doubt we're ever going to receive any of them.

[ViciousXUSMC]

Yeah the no multi point mobs/bosses thing really hurts when you try to solo. In groups I am ok with it as I can play support as I usually do and kick out dps between my resta/shfta/deband/jellen/zalure ect. But when you really want an item you need to solo for, or there happens to be nobody online to party with.. Forces have a hard solo game :/ Ra was already "gimped" to 3 targets in the first place instead of days of the old when it could clear a room, atleast let us have those 3 hits no matter if its one big guy or not.

[e13kiana]

On 2007-12-10 00:23, Lolitecher wrote:
Yeah, unfortunately like before, evading more often than not just tends to disrupt the Technic being casted, although the counter cast helps in a pinch.

I love the expansion, but being primary a Force player, the lack of new features to play with is a bit depressing, especially for offline. My character was carried over from Extra Mode with the Uransara in hand, and at end game, she still has the exact same Uransara, because apparently they saw it fit not to make any better wands available offline for no apparent reason, at least none that have been discovered on this side of the planet yet.

Somehow, they manage to introduce a whole stable full of Skills and Bullets, but not a single new Technic that wasn't already known with the first game. I appreciate the level 40+ Technics, but the leveling curve for Technics is so ridiculously steep compared to skills and bullets (Seriously, you can level Twin Penetration to LV50 in one day... how about Rentis and Dizas? You'd be lucky if you could level it past 21+ in half of a year) that any casual gamer will long be finished with the offline portion of the game before seeing anything past level 30+. The only thing note worthy for Forces really are Madoogs which do admittedly add a great deal of variety to the game, but they excel at support Techs due to high PP over actual TP, so even they are not entirely Force specific (Plus Hunters and Rangers offline can use up to A-Rank).

That being said, the stuff they added to the game in general plus how they expanded Forces offline to be able to use Grenade Launchers, Double Sabers, Twin Daggers and of course S-Rank in whips, cards and bows is awesome, but it's more like borrowing from other classes' realms than it is promoting the use of good old fashion "Pyro Technics".

What I would really have loved to see added as a game mechanic is if Forces could charge their spells by holding down the attack button (excluding spells you already hold the button down for and support spells) to increase power and range. It would add a completely new dimension to Force play mechanics. They already have the animation and game mechanic foundations to do it as equipping different units shows, they just need to make it controllable. A little Grants action or a unit that allows Forces to multi part hit bosses wouldn't hurt either ^_^




i'd have to say, multi-hitting bosses would suck... launch a Barta through De ragon once and it'd be almost dead... what fun would be in that? maybe hitting two or three, but not as many as possible.

[ViciousXUSMC]

Barta would only hit 4 or 5 places probably, I remember in PSO I was only able to hit that many on dragon types.

De Rol Le was the cake for forces, high lvl rafoi + rafoi merge = dead boss fast. Early game anyways, in ultimate mode it was not so effective and all the other classes could do just about equal or more damage with aoe moves.

[Zorafim]

Slicers: Killed bosses dead.

[beatrixkiddo]

Indeed. I had a Native+Hit Diska of Braveman... that was fun to use on Dragon/Sil Dragon ;3

[darkante]

Remember the good time when slicer owned bosses in PSO..
Also , nothing beats using Rappy Fan on a boss with multiple hit spots " Dragon/De rol le".
XD

[Kiata]

The thing i love about FT's is the fact that sega has repeatedly made them harder to use. In the begining of the game spells didnt hurt techers very much but now im taking 1k+ in damage from barta and foe wich is almost the same amount my FF friends are taking. Its seems to me that sega is making the creatures and melay classes stronger but not helping us techers. Also about the FF doing more dmg than a FT is false ive never seen an axe hit 11k+ in one hit,had a friend of mine do that with lvl 38diga. But in the end no matter how strong our enemy gets and how much sega forgets us we will still be the backbone of PSU and will perserveer.

[Umberger]

On 2007-12-11 00:27, Kiata wrote:
Also about the FF doing more dmg than a FT is false ive never seen an axe hit 11k+ in one hit,had a friend of mine do that with lvl 38diga.



No you have not. Unless they were a Female Newman Fortetecher 110/15 with a Sori / TECHNIC Charge, a -techer TP increasing armor, 12% Rod bonus on a Psycho Wand 10/10 and got a critical hit on something with abysmal MST, I find that extremely hard to believe. Even then I am not 100% sure you could hit 11k+. The most I have ever hit on a critical was ~3705 with a total of 7419.42 TP (character + Halarod 12% Ground + Diga 32). The ideal situation I described would have 9895.68 TP and 6% more Ground element. Using my figures as an example, you can assume that a critical hit would do somewhere in the area of around 5000-6000 depending on the enemy. If you have a screenshot of the damage, by all means please do provide it as I am extremely curious.

Axes can do well over 11k+ in "one hit" with Anga Jabroga on certain enemies.

[Kiata]

LOL you must be a 1up lvling noob and no way axe can hit that much without glitching or finding some way to stack cati/powers wich would also be glitching so untill you get some actual psu gaming experiance keep youre unwanted messages off of the boards. TY

Oh yea and just cause you anint got high grinded s weapons dont mean others dont i got 3 psycho wands 4/9- 3/10-9/9 and a 9/9 kazarod haha noob FACE!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kiata on 2007-12-11 01:10 ]</font>

[Umberger]

On 2007-12-11 01:06, Kiata wrote:
LOL you must be a 1up lvling noob and no way axe can hit that much without glitching or finding some way to stack cati/powers wich would also be glitching so untill you get some actual psu gaming experiance keep youre unwanted messages off of the boards. TY



Axe can hit that much. Jabroga can easily hit over 10,000 on boss enemies, all it takes is an average of 1,000 damage on each of its hits. With the recent stat/element modifier reworking SEGA did, it's fairly simple to do. I have plenty of gaming experience on PS, PSO and PSU, and I fail to see how my message is "unwanted". I'm providing facts aiding my questioning of your statements, and you have resorted to absurd personal attacks, along with no backing of your own claims yet again.

To the second part of your statement, cool. It doesn't matter what equipment you have, the damage you're claiming you did is not possible, unless you found an enemy with 0 MST.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Umberger on 2007-12-11 01:16 ]</font>

[Kiata]

Ty for proving my point and you admited your self only a 1000 points a hit (a hit clasifies a strike on one point of the body such as diga) yes an axe can strike over 11k but only in hitting multiple points on a creature which would be multiple hits. pls use some comon sence when trying to doubt me and it wasnt my dmg it was a friendswho is 110 F NM 15 FT. Also GoVahras are weak against technics and there lighning just incase you didnt know, diga is earth and is strong against them.

[Sasamichan]

On 2007-12-11 01:29, Kiata wrote:
Ty for proving my point and you admited your self only a 1000 points a hit (a hit clasifies a strike on one point of the body such as diga) yes an axe can strike over 11k but only in hitting multiple points on a creature which would be multiple hits. pls use some comon sence when trying to doubt me and it wasnt my dmg it was a friendswho is 110 F NM 15 FT. Also GoVahras are weak against technics and there lighning just incase you didnt know, diga is earth and is strong against them.



Grammar and spelling is your friend.

[RemiusTA]

On 2007-12-11 01:29, Kiata wrote:
Ty for proving my point and you admited your self only a 1000 points a hit (a hit clasifies a strike on one point of the body such as diga) yes an axe can strike over 11k but only in hitting multiple points on a creature which would be multiple hits. pls use some comon sence when trying to doubt me and it wasnt my dmg it was a friendswho is 110 F NM 15 FT. Also GoVahras are weak against technics and there lighning just incase you didnt know, diga is earth and is strong against them.




Shut the fuck up. Forces cannot deal more than Fortefighters.

Get over it.


No Fortecher ever has delt anywhere NEAR 10k damage. Maybe during Endgame, but in current standing thats unheard of.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RemiusTA on 2007-12-12 02:44 ]</font>

[e13kiana]

i have just got to say this, i don't think Diga is the most powerful spell. My lv29 diga does 900-1000 damage, but my lvl 29 Rafoie does 700-800s... on three enemies, soon to be 4. just had to say, i'm kinda tired of seeing techers with Diga and foie being their only technics...