AotI: Balance

[Kiata]

This will settle it once and for all what do the people think!

[pikachief]

all is balanced except i think everyone will agree with me that FF shouldn't get the ranged/ quick shooting weapon called a slicer!

leave that for the AF and FiG!

[Complex_Jao]

the game was made to have fun in so who cares

[hellcaptain]

i agree

[Chuck_Norris]

Everything is balanced except forces. They need to be MOAR gimp!!1



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chuck_Norris on 2007-12-12 16:13 ]</font>

[Pillan]

Fortefighter can have slicers. I don't care about that since, you know, even though they can hit airborne mobs, all airborne mobs take half damage from melee anyway, so the handgun deals more. The only problem is that the PA makes everyone cry, and that issue is still true as AF and FG, it's just the 4000s are reduced to 3200s.

It's still 4 or 5 times what a ranger or force can get with the same type of attack.


EDIT:

And what Chuck said.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-12-12 16:08 ]</font>

[ThEoRy]

this settles nothing.

[majan]

as of friday, balanced with the small exception of the slicer issue. aside from the fact that its a little too powerful, there really isnt anythign wrong there either. now that theres a clearer distinction between who the true kings and queens of technics are,that's really the only balance gripe I saw that was really legitimately posed by the expansoin and the new classes and buffs and etc. now that fortetechers,though 104091832 times less versatile,are still the elite teching class over acrotechers,who were very close to holding a tech edge over fortetechers.

noone seemed to have mentoined this at all, but fighgunner also got a very,very significant boost when the expansion came.noone realizes what power they gained by having level 30 bullets.dualies and crossbows at 21+ gain very,very immense power.balancing that with a very generous melee seleciton makes fighgunner quite well-endowed. noone's said anything about it though because everyone was so caught up in the at-vs-ft battle.I think fighgunner is balanced though considering every single class got a just-as-awesome buff.fortegunner has enough things in its weapon selection alone to trump the slight ATP advantage fighgunners have with crossbows and twin guns.besides,the atp stat modifier isnt all that much higher anyway.

its balanced,I think,but worth discussing.I'm surprised this didnt get a lot more attentoin than it did. the game on the whole though,now that the techer issue has been set straight,is very nicely balanced now.

now bring us the level 180+ enemies.

[Kiata]

Everybody keeps saying that forces need to be nerfed more wtf we should be doing more than any other class. I say its FF that need to be toned down a notch the games becoming to one sided pretty soon itl be nothing but FF beast and cast running around with all slicers thatl ruin the game and more than half the game population will stop playing.


The only thing that changed on the xpansion for my FT is the TP stayd the same my mst whent douwn my evp whent up my hp staid the same my dfp whent down and ata whent down and we didnt get the speed boost of the other classes and no better weapons. If you actualy look at it FT got screwed. Oh yea not to meantion that i can do better with a whip as a FT than i can do with my magic.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kiata on 2007-12-12 16:18 ]</font>

[Pillan]

On 2007-12-12 16:12, majan wrote:
noone seemed to have mentoined this at all, but fighgunner also got a very,very significant boost when the expansion came.noone realizes what power they gained by having level 30 bullets.dualies and crossbows at 21+ gain very,very immense power.balancing that with a very generous melee seleciton makes fighgunner quite well-endowed. noone's said anything about it though because everyone was so caught up in the at-vs-ft battle.I think fighgunner is balanced though considering every single class got a just-as-awesome buff.fortegunner has enough things in its weapon selection alone to trump the slight ATP advantage fighgunners have with crossbows and twin guns.besides,the atp stat modifier isnt all that much higher anyway.


Fighgunner got a 10% ATP buff, Fortefigher got a 15% ATP buff, Fortegunner got a 12% ATP buff. The difference between Fighgunner and Fortegunner is so small that getting your bullets to 31 allows Fortegunner to easily trump Fighgunner in ranged damage, in addition to their vastly suprerior accuracy. In addition to that, bullets aren't worth that much because their melee is so much more powerful. I only find myself using guns when the mob is flying or against buffed Jarba. And then, of course, there's the fact that Fighgunner was reduced to third most powerful hunter, because AF's speed advantage surpasses the BS ATP difference.

The only reason to play Fighgunner is really just a love of machineguns, crossbows, and double sabers. Otherwise, you're a lot better off as some other class. I'd say this is the general reason why no one talks about that "improvement".

[SolRiver]

http://www.amesani.org/psu/enbeta/enemy/properties.php

Going by that list... there are 11 monsters that are resistant to tech, 24 to melee, and just as many to guns.

I say it is decently balanced as tech trade overall efficiency for damage.

Now whether EXACTLY how balanced, it will depend on the particular map. If the map if full of flying monsters, melee are gimped.

[Dragwind]

On 2007-12-12 16:32, SolRiver wrote:
http://www.amesani.org/psu/enbeta/enemy/properties.php

Going by that list... there are 11 monsters that are resistant to tech, 24 to melee, and just as many to guns.

I say it is decently balanced as tech trade overall efficiency for damage.

Now whether EXACTLY how balanced, it will depend on the particular map. If the map if full of flying monsters, melee are gimped.




You win 100 internets. It all depends what map you are running.

Other than that, I don't really care. Just pick a class, get the right gear and pa's, and have fun. I don't think this game was meant to be finely tuned for the whiners anyways.

[Kiata]

On 2007-12-12 16:32, SolRiver wrote:
http://www.amesani.org/psu/enbeta/enemy/properties.php

Going by that list... there are 11 monsters that are resistant to tech, 24 to melee, and just as many to guns.

I say it is decently balanced as tech trade overall efficiency for damage.

Now whether EXACTLY how balanced, it will depend on the particular map. If the map if full of flying monsters, melee are gimped.



If your looking at creatures to justify a ballenced game your incompetint were talking stats here not creatures an d 90% of those creaturse ar weak to every kind of atack.

[Shadow_Wing]

I really don't care, can't satisfy everyone, only way is attempts to fix the problems of the population.

I've stopped worrying about balance, and started enjoying the game instead of worrying about such trivial things =S

[SolRiver]

On 2007-12-12 16:36, Kiata wrote:

On 2007-12-12 16:32, SolRiver wrote:
http://www.amesani.org/psu/enbeta/enemy/properties.php

Going by that list... there are 11 monsters that are resistant to tech, 24 to melee, and just as many to guns.

I say it is decently balanced as tech trade overall efficiency for damage.

Now whether EXACTLY how balanced, it will depend on the particular map. If the map if full of flying monsters, melee are gimped.



If your looking at creatures to justify a ballenced game your incompetint were talking stats here not creatures an d 90% of those creaturse ar weak to every kind of atack.



You would be a fool to think player stats are the only thing that matters.

While I also don't remember reading anywhere this thread being "player stats only".

It is foolish to begin with to post a thread like this when we are in easy mode.

You are just having a bad day. To make it worse or not, it is your call.

[Kiata]

On 2007-12-12 16:45, SolRiver wrote:

On 2007-12-12 16:36, Kiata wrote:

On 2007-12-12 16:32, SolRiver wrote:
http://www.amesani.org/psu/enbeta/enemy/properties.php

Going by that list... there are 11 monsters that are resistant to tech, 24 to melee, and just as many to guns.

I say it is decently balanced as tech trade overall efficiency for damage.

Now whether EXACTLY how balanced, it will depend on the particular map. If the map if full of flying monsters, melee are gimped.



If your looking at creatures to justify a ballenced game your incompetint were talking stats here not creatures an d 90% of those creaturse ar weak to every kind of atack.



You would be a fool to think player stats are the only thing that matters.

While I also don't remember reading anywhere this thread being "player stats only".

It is foolish to begin with to post a thread like this when we are in easy mode.

You are just having a bad day. To make it worse or not, it is your call.


UH ok for the retard in the groop creature stats didnt change in the expansion so they dont have anything to with the new player stats and if the game is ballenced or not. The game was unballenced do to the respecing of the stats on the players,any of this gettin through or should i type slower?
And whts with the easy mode were not on PSO anymore or have you not noticed





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kiata on 2007-12-12 16:56 ]</font>

[SolRiver]

On 2007-12-12 16:53, Kiata wrote:

On 2007-12-12 16:45, SolRiver wrote:

On 2007-12-12 16:36, Kiata wrote:

On 2007-12-12 16:32, SolRiver wrote:
http://www.amesani.org/psu/enbeta/enemy/properties.php

Going by that list... there are 11 monsters that are resistant to tech, 24 to melee, and just as many to guns.

I say it is decently balanced as tech trade overall efficiency for damage.

Now whether EXACTLY how balanced, it will depend on the particular map. If the map if full of flying monsters, melee are gimped.



If your looking at creatures to justify a ballenced game your incompetint were talking stats here not creatures an d 90% of those creaturse ar weak to every kind of atack.



You would be a fool to think player stats are the only thing that matters.

While I also don't remember reading anywhere this thread being "player stats only".

It is foolish to begin with to post a thread like this when we are in easy mode.

You are just having a bad day. To make it worse or not, it is your call.


UH ok for the retard in the groop creature stats didnt change in the expansion so they dont have anything to with the new player stats and if the game is ballenced or not. The game was unballenced do to the respecing of the stats on the players,any of this gettin through or should i type slower?





Do it REAL slow for me. I am too retarded to understand you, because you think so much light years ahead than the rest of us.

Perhaps you can crack the 64-bit encryption on the satellite that is orbiting around earth in 5 sec.

The more you get into flame, the more likely this thread will be locked up. If you want to get it locked, I can help.

This thread has no purpose aside for rant.

Oh and AotI haven't show us everything yet. You are just basing your value and barely half of the game.

Let's have an apple vs orange argument... But you can only provide the data from apple.

The last thread you made was also for rant (forttecher is forgotten, blah blah balh > moved to rant section). I am just helping you to relocate it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolRiver on 2007-12-12 17:03 ]</font>

[hellcaptain]

well SEGA spent a year on this expansion and they still screwed up so we have every right to be pissed about the balance on AOI not mattering if it just released or not they had a whole damn year and they still screwed up SEGA set a good example now didn't they.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hellcaptain on 2007-12-12 17:11 ]</font>

[Shadow_Wing]

Sega.... setting a good example.... since when in pertaining to the PS online series <<

[Kiata]

Looking at most online expantions (AOI is no differant) the first few weeks gives you base for the rest of the gameplay if the buggs arent worked out in the begining then the rest of the game will follow suit wiich in this case could ruin the game. Im only trying to bring the problem at hand into the light so that people can see it for what it is, i will admit there are people who want to leave it hindering several base classes of the game and making one almighty race.
I dont wish for this to happen because a ballenced game full of all the classes is much more fun than a game were everyone is the same. Im srry if i hurt youre feelings for showing the truth about this but i have been to scholl for both marketing and game desingh this is one of the issues we didscussed. I like to play PSU the game is fun but from my view i see it going down hill and im only trying to help save it.

[majan]

damn kiata.I didnt ever think Id meet someone as cynical as I am. how long have you been playing the game? my guess is not at long as most of us here. take our word for it:its come a long way and the expansion has given, with fridays update for techers,everything quite a substantial boost.I dont whine much but I point out as much truth as possible,which is often negative things.so take it from me especially,even for the techers now with fridays update,this game's pretty well set up.

and yes,good point about fortegunner and fighgunner stuff,I agree,and thats why I say it it balanced as it is but it's just worth discussing,that's all.

[SolRiver]

I wish we can save the game posting in threads, but I have found out it isn't very effective ever with SEGA.

Deep down, I don't think Sega care. So why should we?

I was pissed 3-6 years ago from PSO v1 to PSO EP1-2 to PSU. Nothing has changed. The only way I can care is to just play and wait while being positive. Though to be fair, we don't see as much hacks anymore, nor do we see all those duping going on like crazy. Now we actually only have game balance to worry about.

If they balance techer to do a certain thing only, I will just do that certain this with techer and that's it. The rest I will just leave to them Japanese to care. If they completely gimped techer, I will just give up techer. One thing for sure, I had always been jealous of techer's speed in clearing those robots in grove of fanatics.

There are nothing to be dicussed that are different from the other 500 threads about balance.

Sega have far more things to worry about. As far as I know, WoW killed almost every MMoRPG on the west. You don't fight a lost battle; their only hope is in Japan for PSU.

Japan's hardcore game market are dying. They made AotI far more casual than vanilla PSU, in an attempt to keep casual Japanese gamers happy. Casual game market are on the rise.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolRiver on 2007-12-12 17:25 ]</font>

[Kiata]

LOL(cynical) ouch.. ive played the since the week befor the valentinse day event. I didnt get it at the begining nop but i have seen most of the game and im not trying to bad mouth the techer upgrade im just saying that some classeshave become to powerful. The new weapons and the stat respek are the main problem,many seem to think everbody got a big damage boost but the teckers didnt.

This rod respec is the same as what evrone elso got when the expansion came out and it will help, but it feels like the meley classes are taking over and i enjoy my magic. But not being able to hit multiple points with area spells (that are similar to the new pa,s i.e. the new axe art is the same as a gi-diga) and the adition of a weapon that can hit unlimited numbers of enemies for upwards of 2-3k each is giving to much power to FF and AF. And is giving me the image that the game is leaving us magic users behind, that dont want to switch AT to just get our hits in.

[Poncho_Jr]

If Barta and Zonde did as much damage as Slicers. Everything will be ginger peachy.

[Shadow_Wing]

Then us ranger would bitch.

Edit: More or less it's only slicers that are stupid broken imo, Rangers got a great buff come AoI, Techers are getting a good buff here very soon, and now all that's left is slicer.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shadow_Wing on 2007-12-12 17:33 ]</font>

[Kiata]

On 2007-12-12 17:29, Poncho_Jr wrote:
If Barta and Zonde did as much damage as Slicers. Everything will be ginger peachy.



I think thats a little extreme.
I cant see my self casting lvl 40 barta down a hallway in white beasts hiting each one for 3k plus the freeze.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kiata on 2007-12-12 17:32 ]</font>

[Alisha]

im getting sick of the sense of entitlement many forces have. particularly the ones that enjoy nuking.

[_K1_]

The game will probably get re-balanced over time, just like PSU was. Look back a few months, and you'll find threads complaining about hunters being useless in many S2 runs, and how Fortefighter was awful at soloing, while Fortegunner was the best class. Go further back to the start of the game, and Forces were top damage dealer. It's too early to judge how AotI will turn out.

[Kiata]

Well some how weve come full circle maby the only problem is the slicers need to be reajusted, well im gonna take solrivers advise and keep farming and try and stay posotive, afterall theres alot left to be aded like Ragol i believe.

[Poncho_Jr]

^

I resent that. D:

[Kiata]

On 2007-12-12 17:36, Alisha wrote:
im getting sick of the sense of entitlement many forces have. particularly the ones that enjoy nuking.



Were not trying to say we should be the almighty nukes but as a FT we traded atp and dfp for high tp so that we could do alot of damage.

If FF can do more dmg than FT and dont have to suffer the loss of dfp and atp then that realy leaves techers as a novelty class woth no use on the field exept to heal and buff, wich WT,GTandAT can do as well.

[hellcaptain]

good piont

[majan]

On 2007-12-12 17:25, Kiata wrote:
LOL(cynical) ouch.. ive played the since the week befor the valentinse day event. I didnt get it at the begining nop but i have seen most of the game and im not trying to bad mouth the techer upgrade im just saying that some classeshave become to powerful. The new weapons and the stat respek are the main problem,many seem to think everbody got a big damage boost but the teckers didnt.

This rod respec is the same as what evrone elso got when the expansion came out and it will help, but it feels like the meley classes are taking over and i enjoy my magic. But not being able to hit multiple points with area spells (that are similar to the new pa,s i.e. the new axe art is the same as a gi-diga) and the adition of a weapon that can hit unlimited numbers of enemies for upwards of 2-3k each is giving to much power to FF and AF. And is giving me the image that the game is leaving us magic users behind, that dont want to switch AT to just get our hits in.



you enjoy your magic. good. play,and be happy,then,and worry about your own character.
most of all...

[spoiler-box]if what they are doing for fortetechers is not enough for you,switch classes. if that isnt enough,then you need to switch rpg's.[/spoiler-box]

we know slicers are overpowered too,thats been a problem,but that concerns everything,not just the edge it holds over forces. level up your ra-attacks,which are receiving a speed and coverage buff,so that you can hit targets from a range before they die.t hat is how you get experience as a fortetecher. use a rod while doing it too,and marvel at the power boost it is getting. enjoy your magic,because come friday fortetecher will be even more enjoyable.you are right,they are getting now what they should have gotten in the first place,but they've got it.all us techers can stop fightign for it now because it's upon us.you must realize this.

[hellcaptain]

good point

[Pillan]

On 2007-12-12 17:42, Kiata wrote:
If FF can do more dmg than FT and dont have to suffer the loss of dfp and atp then that realy leaves techers as a novelty class woth no use on the field exept to heal and buff, wich WT,GTandAT can do as well.


I would agree with that statement entirely if Fortetecher couldn't use ranged attacks or heal. Now, if Fortetecher had the same HP, ATP, ATA, DFP, MST, EVP, and STA but with no access to support techs or low support techs (10) and no access to the Ra- and Nos- series, I'd be all for them clearly outdamaging Fortefighter.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Yeah, I agree with Majan, come Friday, the classes are gonna be balanced. I can't really ask for anything more now, except maybe Wartechers getting S rank twin claws and fists. But yeah, I like the balance as it is now.

[hellcaptain]

good it'll finally finish this feud.

[MSAksion]

now if only a multi-hit TECH can hit a boss's multi-hit points the way a Grenade, Crossbow, Double Saber or any melee PA Can.

The best i can do without using DIGA or FOIE on a Boss is like 500~800 a hit with a TECH. Like de ragon. i can do 2000 with DIGA but only 500~700 with Damubarat or 800 with Rabarta. And De ragon is fire so ice should do massive damage.

If i could throw Rabarta and do 800 800 800 that would put me on par with a Ranger's rifle and a fraction of what a Fighter class can do.

I'm not asking to do more damage than the other 2. but i feel that a giant block of ice should do the same 500~800 a hit to 3 parts of a boss.

[majan]

I don't see a happy medium in that situation.technics cast way too fast for that kinda damage to be plausible.dam- techs do not have a target limit,so we'd be hitting de ragan in like 9 spots for,what,like ~600 damage per tick?with how many ticks?yeah,we can dream.even if they adjust boss' tech resistance for that to be not as O.O, it would result in the rest of the technics doing pure shit against them.even rabarta multi-hitting a boss would be pretty wtf.doing ~900 per shot,4 targets/3 targets for AT's,casting rapidly,would result in a lot of damage dealt extremely quickly,much quicker than jabroga or the grenade launcher.

the idea is good in theory,but it would give forces entirely too much boss-thwomping power.

[Kiata]

Its not that much diference when you think about the new axe art it hits 5-6 spots for sometimes 1k a spot so its still not that strong the ra spell would only hit for multi spot and whould only hit 4 spots 31+.

[Poncho_Jr]

In the future, they said they would uprade the Ra-TECH to hit every enemy in the blast/aura.

[Alisha]

On 2007-12-12 18:21, Kiata wrote:
Its not that much diference when you think about the new axe art it hits 5-6 spots for sometimes 1k a spot so its still not that strong the ra spell would only hit for multi spot and whould only hit 4 spots 31+.




its not that simple because at least 3 spells could be cast in the time it takes jabroga to finish.

[McLaughlin]

It's fine the way it is. Most Fortetechers are just pissed because they used to be able to support and deal damage, and had a monopoly over both. Now they have to pick one.

They were spoiled. Compound that with the fact Hunter classes can do more than stand around and look shiny, and most Fortetechers are PMSing over not being King of the Castle any longer.

[Kiata]

On 2007-12-12 18:44, Alisha wrote:

On 2007-12-12 18:21, Kiata wrote:
Its not that much diference when you think about the new axe art it hits 5-6 spots for sometimes 1k a spot so its still not that strong the ra spell would only hit for multi spot and whould only hit 4 spots 31+.




its not that simple because at least 3 spells could be cast in the time it takes jabroga to finish.


Jabroga hits twice in one art dont forget that!

Just raise the MST of the bosses so the magic does less individual hit point damage but does a litle mor over all damage. FT should do more dmg than ff its the mechanics of an RPG but in the end we will get what we whant lvl 50 tech. YAY!

[Kiata]

I really think that FF are upset that the slicer is gonna get nerfed so they try and bash ideas for the FT because they know when all is said and don were gonna be back on top of dmg classes.

[majan]

On 2007-12-12 18:47, Obsidian_Knight wrote:
It's fine the way it is. Most Fortetechers are just pissed because they used to be able to support and deal damage, and had a monopoly over both. Now they have to pick one.

They were spoiled. Compound that with the fact Hunter classes can do more than stand around and look shiny, and most Fortetechers are PMSing over not being King of the Castle any longer.



I for one think they should be king of one castle:tech damage(make sense,yah?)that is all I asked,and the way it is pre-fridays balance,acrotechers come entirely too close to paralleling fortetechers tech dps potential,which you must admit is pretty retarted. but now with these updates everything is fine as far as Im concerned.this is the update,as we've already established,that ft's should have got along with the JA/JC hooplah when AOI hit.

[Kiata]

On 2007-12-12 19:22, majan wrote:

On 2007-12-12 18:47, Obsidian_Knight wrote:
It's fine the way it is. Most Fortetechers are just pissed because they used to be able to support and deal damage, and had a monopoly over both. Now they have to pick one.

They were spoiled. Compound that with the fact Hunter classes can do more than stand around and look shiny, and most Fortetechers are PMSing over not being King of the Castle any longer.




I for one think they should be king of one castle:tech damage(make sense,yah?)that is all I asked,and the way it is pre-fridays balance,acrotechers come entirely too close to paralleling fortetechers tech dps potential,which you must admit is pretty retarted. but now with these updates everything is fine as far as Im concerned.this is the update,as we've already established,that ft's should have got along with the JA/JC hooplah when AOI hit.




Better Late than never



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kiata on 2007-12-12 19:24 ]</font>

[rogue_robot]

Here's my 2 meseta:

Back when PSO was first designed, SEGA, in effort not to be yet another FF/D&D, decided that FOrces, rather than being split between "black" and "white," would be capable of any damn spell they please. To keep things even for other classes, spell attack damage was nerfed (though hardly as much as was necessary). Techers in PSO/PSU aren't meant to be nukers, they're meant to spread SE, buff, and heal.

However, SEGA failed to take into account how drastically this change upsets the non-magic classes. As a cheap fix, they handed DPS to the exact class that should never have had it - the HUnters, those dearly-beloved front-line infantry meat-shields, without which the RAngers and FOrces wouldn't (or shouldn't) be able to survive even two seconds on the battlefield. Those guys are supposed to soak in all the damage so that the techers could live long enough to even get the nuke off, and contribute some nominal amount of damage to tag for Xp and kill what the nukes leave just barely standing. However, SEGA failed to gimp the HUnters in other areas to coresspond to their newfound DPS. As a cheap and ineffective remedy to that, they gave highest Hp and Dfp to RAngers - characters who, under normal circumstances, should not even be making use of those two stats. HUnters, however, because of their front-line role, still have ridiculously high Hp/Dfp, leading to this game's reputation as "easy mode" - HUnters really do have it all, being able to both dish out and take infinite amounts of punishment, and RAngers and FOrces are left to bitch about who spreads SE better - RAngers don't need HUnter protection, but FOrces have (Gi)Resta.



Ironically, fixing this mess isn't hard. All ST would have to do is take SE from RAngers, and make all guns ignore Dfp, give HUnters the most Hp/Dfp, and make differences in enemy Dfp a great deal more vast - HUnters would do more damage against "low-armor" enemies, while RAngers would be primary damage-dealers against "armored" enemies. The defense bonus to enemies would even solve the FOrces' problem - with more survivable enemies, SEs would actually mean a great deal more again.

HUnters would resume being the highly-respected meat-shields they always should have been, RAngers would become the "damage" class, though sacrificing unnecessary survivability for it (they aren't on the front lines, they don't need defense), and FOrces could get along with being SE, healing, and buff.



Oh, and before anyone flames me: all I ever play are HUnters and FOrces. I hate the fact that RAngers' damage potential is geared around their character stats, even though they're using friggin' firearms (unless Acc suddenly started meaning more to the actual damage value than Atp, but that's never gonna happen).

[Kiata]

You are my Hero for this week

1.Batman
2.Rouge_Robot
3.Arnold Shwartzanader
4.Donald Trump
Dream Team

[Darki]

I don't really mind the idea of hunters as primary damage dealers. It would be something to difference this game frm topic role games, and I mean, I think is logical that a guy with a 2.5 metres' axe deal more damage than someone with a rifle o_O. The problem here is that we arent talking only about forces, hunters and ranger, because there are more hybrid classes, and that makes things more difficult.

If I were the game designer and the game balance depended of me, primary damage dealers would be:

-Fortefighter. ONLY melee damage dealers, with any other abbility, may cause some SEs with handguns (lol)

- Acrofighter: The weaker damage dealer because of it's weapon selection, but also the best dps dealer.

- Fighgunner, not so strong than FFs, but with the pros of the abbility of cause some SEs thanks to traps and better ranged weapon selection.

- Fortetecher. Massive damage, and SEs, also support, but as they are decent damage dealers, they focus on striking techs.

-Fortegunner, still strong enough to do decent damage, but with great abbilities to SEs, because FT is slower enough in striking to give FG this work, and being able to use traps.

- Wartecher, the "most versatile class" in game, being able to survive in all situations, may be the true "meat-shields", not so strong than the other fighter classes, but with the abbility to use any kind of attacks, also a minimun support abbility. This is my fav class, so maybe I overpower it a little, but I'd like this class to do something useful with techs, not only melee.

- Guntecher: as a support class, is not a main damage dealer, but also combine the abbility of cause SEs with the support role.

- Protranser: the master of the status effects, with their improved abbility with traps, and the unique access to EX traps, very low stats, but do decent damage because of his huge weapon selection.

- Acrotecher: as the best support class, is focused on healing and buffs, with some melee skills, but not soooo ubber than now o_O

.... Obviously those are my thoughs, and as you can see I hate ATs <.< xD btw I don't cry for what we have now... just would be better with some little details ><

[hewitt]

i agreed with yout until you said take SE from rangers and leave forces with support and not damge i think rangers should throw out SE alot, kill airborne enemies and snipe from afar thy should have moderate damage to high depending on there weapon. forces should be the nukers like usual while as an FT and on the support. while as AT you should be consistenly buffing and using everything else at medium damage. hunters should absorb damage and not surpass all other classes with damage but be constantly flinching everything knocking them back etc to keep them away from the forces and rangers. thats just my opinion ;D

[SolRiver]

OR

Have the monsters being so powerful, that you need ranger to spread SE to stop them from moving. After they are less mobile, you have forces to debuff them to give hunter ability to actually be able to fight at all. With monsters debuffed, they are just about hunter's capability and they will fight it out with the force and ranger continue to disturb their movements.

Another idea would be having hunter doing strong damage, but are easily disabled by SE. While the force need to keep them properly healthy, the ranger can buy time for that to happen.

There are PLENTY of good ideas, and they all look good on paper.

However, there are one major flaw to them all. Team work. People online who had never met each other before can't possibly team up together efficiently. If the games are at all a bit difficult, people start blaming and bashing each other and then we get discrimination among players. Result, a bad community that everyone is in fear of themselves or others making a mistake and cost the mission.

What happen when scape doll was a must? People kick players out from having no money. That player who got kicked get kick again in another room, end up never having enough money for scape anyway... he decided to solo rest of his online life because the faggot he met, soon he quited the game; due to boringness from soloing.

I say PSU is fine in being casual. I don't mind having hunter doing god damage while being able to tank. I don't mind ranger doing a little less but from a range with a little SE; while force doing big AoE moderate damage and apply SE at the same time which make them both half hunter and half ranger. The only thing I care is that when hunter are so powerful, that they eliminated the entire room before anyone can do anything.

Team work in an online game = hell.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolRiver on 2007-12-12 21:15 ]</font>

[Rasputin]

ITT, people BAW... constantly.

[rogue_robot]

@Darki: I didn't mean take all DPS from the HUnters, just make them affected more by enemy Dfp than RAnger weapons. That way, some enemies take most damage from HUnters, while others take it from RAngers. In real life, even a light amount of armor completely obliterates the effectiveness of said 2 meter axe, while providing absolutely no protection against the bullet.

@hewitt: Rangers' SE is the exact problem - the reason we see so damn much FOrce BAAAAAWWW around here. Since HUnters have DPS and RAngers have SE, FOrces are left with no offensive options, just support.

EDIT:
@SolRiver: That's why I wish they would place emphasis on *offline* - I don't play online precisely because of the situation you described at the end of your post.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rogue_robot on 2007-12-12 21:20 ]</font>

[SolRiver]

I play strictly online now days, I can't stand offline game because it feel I am just wasting my time playing against opponent that can't at all compete with me even a little.

Also, games without online capability now days are becoming weaker and weaker in the shadow of the internet. If in 10 years future a game don't get online capability, I can expect that game to sell poorly. Unless they allow user customization to a heavy degree that people go online and chat about how they modded their game; even that they would have difficulty to compete against full online games.

Of course, the ultimate ideal is having both online and offline capabilities. However, that should at least increase the budget needed to produce the game by almost 50% (due to a whole different scenario the developer need provide), and the company would rather focus on the side that more willing to take. One of the reason vanilla PSU wasn't so impressive was exactly that. They used their budget to make the game engine, then they need to divide their forces to complete both online and offline portion. In the end, they sucked on both. Now with the expansion out, they didn't need to focus at all on the game engine (especially the character creation) and thus have enough man/budget to do a better job on both online and offline.

I do see one chance for offline games thou... sell it cheap, real cheap. Phoenix Wright come to mind, a budget game price from the start of the sell with super cheap production cost.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolRiver on 2007-12-12 21:36 ]</font>

[Jakosifer]

Am I the only one who hates how Acrofighters DFP and HP are so high? >____>

"Speed" Fighters are generally supposed to be more...ya know...Fragile...

Oh well. /Rant

[rogue_robot]

Meh, I positively loathe the online movement in gaming these days. But, that's just me.

[Alisha]

On 2007-12-12 20:07, rogue_robot wrote:
Here's my 2 meseta:

Back when PSO was first designed, SEGA, in effort not to be yet another FF/D&D, decided that FOrces, rather than being split between "black" and "white," would be capable of any damn spell they please. To keep things even for other classes, spell attack damage was nerfed (though hardly as much as was necessary). Techers in PSO/PSU aren't meant to be nukers, they're meant to spread SE, buff, and heal.


except sega remdied this when episode 2 came out by adding technique bonuses stubstantial enough to make you want to lean on those type of techniques more.

[Angelo]

I have no idea. I've been soloing since AotI came out.

[bloodflowers]

It's not balanced at the moment due to slicers, and Majarra to a lesser extent. Sega seem to have real problems balancing skill PAs. It's like they never take anything they do to the logical extreme.

Were slicers ever tested against a large spawn, using a 110/15 Fortefighter with a 50% slicer? I doubt it, I can't believe the kind of damage was ever expected. Even in a party of two gunners and two slicer users, the gunners were unable to tag some enemies due to the twin slicer spam killing them almost as they appear. On S2. That's broken right there.

It's spoiling the game for me at the moment as I'm having to avoid playing with some of my friends if I want to feel like I'm actually still playing the game. When the slicers come out to play, I could just sit by the block 1 crystal. Needs a range or max targets or damage adjustment, badly.

[Davot]

On 2007-12-13 02:44, bloodflowers wrote:
It's not balanced at the moment due to slicers, and Majarra to a lesser extent. Sega seem to have real problems balancing skill PAs. It's like they never take anything they do to the logical extreme.

Were slicers ever tested against a large spawn, using a 110/15 Fortefighter with a 50% slicer? I doubt it, I can't believe the kind of damage was ever expected. Even in a party of two gunners and two slicer users, the gunners were unable to tag some enemies due to the twin slicer spam killing them almost as they appear. On S2. That's broken right there.

It's spoiling the game for me at the moment as I'm having to avoid playing with some of my friends if I want to feel like I'm actually still playing the game. When the slicers come out to play, I could just sit by the block 1 crystal. Needs a range or max targets or damage adjustment, badly.

Im sick of people just constant complaining about slicers,they're already nerfed went from 9k to 3-3.5k of damage.This game is for fun not for people to have have "waambulence" emergencies every day.Rogue_Robot i agree with you all the way man couldn't have said it better.