Rod buff :-p

[Bitey]

I got booted from the servers, but blah, all I did was test the rod buff anyway so I thought that I would share my observations.

Anyway, before this buff I could just barely hit Light foes with my lvl 22 Ramegid for 700 something. Now, after the buff and with the same exact equipment, weapon set up and buffss I can hit for over 1000. This is on a level 66/8 Newman Female Fortetecher.

Also, it feels like the rods got a speed boost equal to Wands now. Switching between my Halarod and a Serdote I could not notice a casting time difference at all, but comparing a Shato to a Halarod there was a slight advantage with Shato. Those comparisons were done with a Me / Quick equipped as well.

[Reven]

Hey, what do you know. An actual constructive post this morning. Good work Bitey. Sounds like that rod buff is going to be real nice. I might actually want to switch my alt from WT to FT now.

[Anduril]

I was doing a good 200-300 more damage with all of my Techs. I can now hit Tech-resistant monsters for 800+ instead of a measly 500-600.

[Grimhart]

I noticed the rod buff as well!

During a run I was doing, I actually had to stop and think "Hey, why am I so strong today?"

...Then I remembered about the rod buff. xD

[Gen2000]

The damage is nice but rods still cast too slow for general tech types imo however there still seems to be more a push to actually use Rods now. The spells you would usually use Rods for before; Dam-series, Megiverse, and Nosdiga are even more incredible thanks to the boost.

Before boost my madoog+9 could keep up with Howrod+10 just because of the faster DPS but now even though I'm firing 2 nukes from madoog per 1 coming from rod the rod damage is still doing more it seems. I was gonna compare runs using only madoog and wand vs.rod and still if the new "BIG NUMBARZ" actually meant faster runs but the servers went down...grr.

Definitely a step in the right direction either way. Once I actually get a Psycho Wand (or 2), it will be on. Oh I use Har/quick btw.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gen2000 on 2007-12-14 10:30 ]</font>

[Laranas]

Of course a 20% buff is going to be noticeable. You just have to decide if you want the dmg or the PP, now.

[AmyPsycho]

I'm so very happy!! Thank you so much Sega for making the Forces' power greater! Now i feel better about having horrible def and hp.


... er... we do keep this bonus if rollback happens, right?

[Kamiense]

Yes we do, it's a game play change.

[Tekershee]

Difference between Gidiga on a Psycho Wand and on a Pegita is 600 difference! 1000 vs. 1600.

Before the boost, it was 1000 vs. 1300.

[u_r]

har quick or sori / tech charge...

hmmmmmmmmmm

[Bitey]

The damage is nice but rods still cast too slow for general tech types imo however there still seems to be more a push to actually use Rods now.

But rods are just as fast as wands now. Unless the rumor that S rank technique weapons cast faster than normal ranks is true (which it cannot be because I do remember my Serdote casting faster than my Halarod before the buff), my Halarod was casting Ramegid at the same speed as my Serdote which means that Rods and wands have the same speed. Only Madoogs cast faster then Rods now, but their tech modifier is also much lower to make up the difference. A Coni+10 is barely better than a plain Howrod.

With the higher element modifiers, higher base Tech stats, boosted speed from their previous forms, and 20% increase to techniques, you really cannot argue that Rods are the superior DPS weapons for techniques now.

EDIT: Actually, a Coni+10 (around 570 Tech) is barely better than a plain Mayrod (575 tech). A Coni+10 is weaker than a plain Howrod (622 tech).

EDIT2: Found a major typo and fixed it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bitey on 2007-12-14 11:09 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bitey on 2007-12-14 11:12 ]</font>

[majan]

On 2007-12-14 10:49, u_r wrote:
har quick or sori / tech charge...

hmmmmmmmmmm



har/quick,any day. more numbers beats bigger numbers,unless the numbers are considerably fucking huger,kinda like the gap now between rods and wands. the damage drawback you take with a har/quick is not very crippling,and those faster casts add up.

these numbers(below) are nowhere near precise,but Ive run many tests in this area,and you can take my word for discussions sake:while you cast 15-17 times doing 1000 damage,someone with a sori tech will cast 10-12 times in the same timeframe for maybe 1150 damage(any tech any scenario,just speaking theoretically.) so that means youll be doing 15k-17k damage,while the sori-tech person will be doing 13800-15100 damage. slower,harder casts are outweighed over time by faster yet almost as effective casts. go har/quick man.allegedly,the nwe missions on neudaiz drop it like it's hot,so spam it till you find one.it also makes playing a force 10x more fun becauase casting spells faster makes for much more of an exciting experience.youre able to react faster in both attacking and support spells.people will be impressed when the second theyre frozen theyre already reverser'ed out of it.

this is why there was such a huge debate between who was better at tech dps,acrotechers and fortetechers,given that acro's have a speed bonus. but now that rods are faster and overwhelmingly more powerful than wands,ft's retain the true crown of tech masters,as they should and deserve to,while at's retain the crown of awesome vesatility with really good fast tech damage and support spells to balance it.

fixed.golly,my post was almost as typo'ed and bugged as sega's content updates!

DOUBLE PUN!!!!TRIPLE WORD SCORE!!!!!!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: majan on 2007-12-14 11:12 ]</font>

[Gen2000]

On 2007-12-14 11:07, Bitey wrote:

But rods are just as fast as wands now. Unless the rumor that S rank technique weapons cast faster than normal ranks is true (which it has to be because I do remember my Serdote casting faster than my Halarod before the buff), my Halarod was casting Ramegid at the same speed as my Serdote which means that Rods and wands have the same speed. Only Madoogs cast faster then Rods now, but their tech modifier is also much lower to make up the difference. A Coni+10 is barely better than a plain Howrod.

With the higher element modifiers, higher base Tech stats, boosted speed from their previous forms, and 20% increase to techniques, you really cannot argue that Rods are the superior DPS weapons for techniques now.

EDIT: Actually, a Coni+10 (around 570 Tech) is barely better than a plain Mayrod (575 tech). A Coni+10 is weaker than a plain Howrod (622 tech).

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bitey on 2007-12-14 11:09 ]</font>


I messed around with Halarod too because of the silly rumor of Srank speeds and its still slow. I'm talking about the whole recovery time and everything. Even if the cast goes off the same speed the recovery time is longer on a Rod than a Wand and even moreso compared to a Mag (which also casts much faster).

And before boost my Ramegid did like 1100ish with a Mag+9 compared to like 1300ish from a rod (Howrod+10, Halarod+5, or w/e of that strength). Hardly a big difference, especially considering I would already be starting another cast with it while the Rod still finishing it's first cast. The gap got even more screwed if I used a Shedote+10. Rod always did a bigger numbers but Mag/Wand casting faster made it pointless besides hold down button techs. Now the damage gap actually seems to be worth something now, that's the point. My Rod damage with Ramegid is like 1600ish now with boost, my Madoog (and probably Wand didn't get enough time to test) can't keep up with that anymore it seems.

I already knew about Mag (and Wand) vs. Rod TP difference btw. The point was that before boost rods didn't do enough damage to make worth using over faster casting weapons that did similar damage with general techs.

But anyways, like I said when the servers come back up I'll have a chance to do some speed runs to compare the two. I like to actually see and compare things for myself when it comes to something like this.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gen2000 on 2007-12-14 11:44 ]</font>

[Aviendha]

It looks like they found a way to make AT attack techs seem even more useless...

[Shadow_Wing]

Pretty sure Halarod has a speed boost, me and a friend did tests on it way back when we had the only Halarod in the game, but it's very nominal, like half a me/quick or something like that (10/15%? decrease) as far as we can tell. Anyways there's only a select few weapons that have an increase to speed.

And... Har / quick, it's much better, even for me XD

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-12-14 13:07, Aviendha wrote:
It looks like they found a way to make AT attack techs seem even more useless...


OMG this is classic.

[Aviendha]

On 2007-12-14 13:23, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-12-14 13:07, Aviendha wrote:
It looks like they found a way to make AT attack techs seem even more useless...


OMG this is classic.


It's true.

[panzer_unit]

Yeah, it probably is. That was my experience with a second-tier techer in PSU... only basic attacks were any good below lv21 because they weren't stuck with a AOE/SE/additional effects until the final tier. Everything else was only good enough to spam while doing easy missions in order to advance the skill.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I think AT and WT might still do some decent attack magic and at the same time, not have the fragility that FT has, and also, WT has better melee, and AT has better support.

[Kylie]

Nice, this'll be fun to use if I decide to cap FT on my main again.

[KyEmo]

On 2007-12-14 13:19, Shadow_Wing wrote:
Pretty sure Halarod has a speed boost, me and a friend did tests on it way back when we had the only Halarod in the game, but it's very nominal, like half a me/quick or something like that (10/15%? decrease) as far as we can tell. Anyways there's only a select few weapons that have an increase to speed.


Before AoI I tested the casting speed of a Halarod to a Howrod and a Uransara to a Cometaroc. With and without the Quick units.

They have the same exact timing.

[CelestialBlade]

The best thing I'm getting out of this update is ALL THE WHINY FORTETECHERS ARE GOING TO SHUT THE HELL UP ALREADY. Not that they had much to complain about in the first place.

[Aviendha]

On 2007-12-14 14:31, Shiroryuu wrote:
I think AT and WT might still do some decent attack magic and at the same time, not have the fragility that FT has, and also, WT has better melee, and AT has better support.


AT melee does more damage than AT Techs, so attack techs not on a rod are pretty useless.

Edit: On a rod, however, they seem pretty solid now, so FTs can be happy at least.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Aviendha on 2007-12-14 14:43 ]</font>

[Syl]

Don't forget, those Ra-techs hit 4 targets now at 31+ and spells got a 25% speed boost at +31.

I messed around with the update. I was doing a whole lot more with a Howrod that has slightly lower TP than my Uransara. The howrod was doing about 300 more (unbuffed) with my mid level Foie.

Made me go HEL YEH.

[SolomonGrundy]

FTs deserved something. While I don't really like the fact that other techers now do even less damage compared to a FT.

You don't see fortefighters complaining that Figunners or Acrofighters do just as much damage as them (even though these 2 jobs get level 40 skills and some overlapping S ranks, rather than only level 30 techs and no access to rods)

If it was my game, I would have made the damage bonus tied to the elemental % - so that rods, by virtue of having 4 techs of the same element, would have a higher elemental mod. I like the idea of level 31+ RA techs hitting 4 targets as well - that's just a nice touch.

But as long as this will get the FTs to stop crying, I guess all the other techers should just be greatful, amirite?

[Anduril]

On 2007-12-14 15:32, SolomonGrundy wrote:
FTs deserved something. While I don't really like the fact that other techers now do even less damage compared to a FT.

You don't see fortefighters complaining that Figunners or Acrofighters do just as much damage as them (even though these 2 jobs get level 40 skills and some overlapping S ranks, rather than only level 30 techs and no access to rods)

If it was my game, I would have made the damage bonus tied to the elemental % - so that rods, by virtue of having 4 techs of the same element, would have a higher elemental mod. I like the idea of level 31+ RA techs hitting 4 targets as well - that's just a nice touch.

But as long as this will get the FTs to stop crying, I guess all the other techers should just be greatful, amirite?

But the issue of making it an increase to Elemental %, is that some Techer, such as myself, don't always have a single element Rod, I like to Have Giresta and Reverser on my rods to heal on the fly. And I think that fT got something they deserved, after all being having those lv40 techs should be worth something.

[Chaobo99]

With my psycho wand 3/10 and dambarta lv.32..I do dmg in the low 1400s per tick..So my measly lv.15 zonde with the same rod,I do 1250 dmg..and well,my rabarta isnt high (lv.25) I do 1550s..I say the boost is pretty big but i didnt get to taste it enough earlier http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[SolRiver]

On 2007-12-14 15:32, SolomonGrundy wrote:
FTs deserved something. While I don't really like the fact that other techers now do even less damage compared to a FT.

You don't see fortefighters complaining that Figunners or Acrofighters do just as much damage as them (even though these 2 jobs get level 40 skills and some overlapping S ranks, rather than only level 30 techs and no access to rods)

If it was my game, I would have made the damage bonus tied to the elemental % - so that rods, by virtue of having 4 techs of the same element, would have a higher elemental mod. I like the idea of level 31+ RA techs hitting 4 targets as well - that's just a nice touch.

But as long as this will get the FTs to stop crying, I guess all the other techers should just be greatful, amirite?



If foretfighter can ONLY use axe, and acrofighter attack 10% faster using S rank spear; I expect alot of whining. That would be a fair comparison to AT and fT before this update.

[Aviendha]

On 2007-12-14 15:37, Anduril wrote:

On 2007-12-14 15:32, SolomonGrundy wrote:
FTs deserved something. While I don't really like the fact that other techers now do even less damage compared to a FT.

You don't see fortefighters complaining that Figunners or Acrofighters do just as much damage as them (even though these 2 jobs get level 40 skills and some overlapping S ranks, rather than only level 30 techs and no access to rods)

If it was my game, I would have made the damage bonus tied to the elemental % - so that rods, by virtue of having 4 techs of the same element, would have a higher elemental mod. I like the idea of level 31+ RA techs hitting 4 targets as well - that's just a nice touch.

But as long as this will get the FTs to stop crying, I guess all the other techers should just be greatful, amirite?

But the issue of making it an increase to Elemental %, is that some Techer, such as myself, don't always have a single element Rod, I like to Have Giresta and Reverser on my rods to heal on the fly. And I think that fT got something they deserved, after all being having those lv40 techs should be worth something.


I'll admit Rods and 31+ techs needed a boost relative to Wands and lower techs, but there's still 0 incentive to using Attack techs on WT and AT. That's still pretty stupid given they have TECHER in their name and get level 30 attack techs. Granted, Fighgunner still has no incentive to use guns...

[Mystil]

On 2007-12-14 10:46, Tekershee wrote:
Difference between Gidiga on a Psycho Wand and on a Pegita is 600 difference! 1000 vs. 1600.

Before the boost, it was 1000 vs. 1300.


aka putting attack techs on madoogs isn't pretty smart.

[Rainu]

On 2007-12-14 14:42, Typheros wrote:
The best thing I'm getting out of this update is ALL THE WHINY FORTETECHERS ARE GOING TO SHUT THE HELL UP ALREADY. Not that they had much to complain about in the first place.


Consider me silenced; I knew it was a good idea to keep all of those Halarods...

[Sexy_Raine]

Heh, I was hoping we would get through to Sega's lousy effort in techer balance. I'm happy to say our lv31 dam techs and ra- techs absolutely kill what the AT can do. Now I can play FT with some pride again. On my Halarod 5/7 with tier 3 retier and my sori tech charge, I do 1700 to lv110 damage to Rappy Polecs with my Dammegid lv33.

Now I wanna make my PW and abuse Dam techs so I can fuckin' kill hunter damage. Coming from a long time FT, it feels good to dominate again.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2007-12-14 19:47 ]</font>

[ThEoRy]

Funny how certain people never seem speak up in the Positive fT threads. For those people I would just like to say. that I did tell you so.

[SolomonGrundy]

But the issue of making it an increase to Elemental %, is that some Techer, such as myself, don't always have a single element Rod, I like to Have Giresta and Reverser on my rods to heal on the fly. And I think that fT got something they deserved, after all being having those lv40 techs should be worth something.

but that is a CHOICE - as in, FTs can chose to do very heavy tech damage if they want, or have support healing on some or all rods.

Giving a blanket 20% bonus to rods and a casting speed increase means that WT or AT wanting to use techs as a form of damage are at perhpas 60% of FT potential. Again, imagine a AF or FiG doing 60% of the damage a fF does. Heads would roll.

For those who say that Fighgunners have no reason to use guns...tengoh/jarba/jusugun/onmagoug/dimmagoug
you need MORE reason?

Like I posted though: if it shuts the FTs up, I can live with that.

[Aviendha]

[b]On 2007-12-14 17:38, SolomonGrundy
For those who say that Fighgunners have no reason to use guns...tengoh/jarba/jusugun/onmagoug/dimmagoug
you need MORE reason?

Other than bosses, there are few enemies that make guns worth using. Flying enemies, Jarba, Gaozoran...is about it, and Shadoogs shoot down flying enemies. The vast majority of the time FI doesn't need guns.


[b]On 2007-12-14 17:13, Sexy_Raine wrote[/b
Now I wanna make my PW and abuse Dam techs so I can fuckin' kill hunter damage. Coming from a long time FT, it feels good to dominate again.

If FT kills even AF or FI damage, something is wrong with the balance. If they kill FF damage, ST has royally fucked up.

[Shadow_Wing]

On 2007-12-14 17:38, SolomonGrundy wrote:
if it shuts the FTs up, I can live with that.

QFT, now fake ATs, GTFO of my class.

[Hokokaru]

Im gonna have to try this out as a time off of PT.... At least I still get EX traps lol (Rafoie and Rabarta)

[Stezan]

I am quite happy with the rod boost. Just about all my techs on rods do 1200+ damage when used on opposite element enemies (aside from techs like Megiverse and Regrant). The icing on the cake for me today was Sori/Tech Charge dropped. With my Gaozoran Rod+5, Megid lv21 was doing 1700+ damage to rappy pollecs.

[Bitey]

I messed around with Halarod too because of the silly rumor of Srank speeds and its still slow. I'm talking about the whole recovery time and everything. Even if the cast goes off the same speed the recovery time is longer on a Rod than a Wand and even moreso compared to a Mag (which also casts much faster).

Okay, not only do you seen oblivious, but I am positive that you have no clue what you are talking about anyway.

Not only are Rods casting just as fast as Wands, but they spam techniques at the same rate as well. In other words, if you cast the same technique side by side, one with a Rod and the other with a Wand, they will be going off at the same time and will continue to go off at the same time.

I kind of assumed that you would understand that without me having to spell it out seeing as how, you know, recovery times are important for DPS and such. I mean, seriously, does everyone agree that Shotguns are just as fast as Crossbows because their attack goes off at the same speed? No. Everyone understands that the recovery time after a Shotgun shot makes the Shotgun spam slower than the Crossbow so therefore the Shotgun is slower...

[Zorafim]

Obviously, he was an idiot and you are a genius. Everyone should follow your words as law, for you are wise beyond rival.

Obviously.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zorafim on 2007-12-14 22:23 ]</font>

[Gen2000]

On 2007-12-14 20:10, Bitey wrote:
Okay, not only do you seen oblivious, but I am positive that you have no clue what you are talking about anyway.

Not only are Rods casting just as fast as Wands, but they spam techniques at the same rate as well. In other words, if you cast the same technique side by side, one with a Rod and the other with a Wand, they will be going off at the same time and will continue to go off at the same time.

I kind of assumed that you would understand that without me having to spell it out seeing as how, you know, recovery times are important for DPS and such. I mean, seriously, does everyone agree that Shotguns are just as fast as Crossbows because their attack goes off at the same speed? No. Everyone understands that the recovery time after a Shotgun shot makes the Shotgun spam slower than the Crossbow so therefore the Shotgun is slower...



Lol wow...ok I already said they cast at the same speed then you go on with the Shotgun/Crossbow comparison which is basically the same thing about me talking about the recovery time comparsion when concerning DPS. The Rod's slow recovery is the reason why Madoog/Wands are (or were) better than Rods for general techs. Yes they cast at the same speed I already said that but the recovery time still sucks on Rods. Before the boost the damage difference wasn't enough to make Rods worth using over Wands since you get similar damage with the Wand but faster. You don't seem to understand the difference between cast and recovery time.

Very easy test is go to Moatoob and Awoken Serpent S misssion and try spamming Razonde 31+ (or any 31+ basic/ra-tech) vs. Vandas. The Vanda's A.I. has it where if you flinch them they will always cast Diga afterwards. Madoog/Wand tech spam won't allow them to cast Diga where as casting from a Rod will because it recovers slower.

But anyways I messed around with Mag/Wand/Rods so more this past few days and Rods still shine they're best when using Dam/Nos-techs but since the boost that's all that really matters since Dam-techs always did the fastest damage and now the damage is insane now, combining that with all Dam-techs flinching...really awesome stuff. I'm doing like 1400-1800ish damage now depending on element compared to before.


aka putting attack techs on madoogs isn't pretty smart.

Madoogs are still good for attack techs.