how good is the new double saber skill??

[JeanDirk]

I'm thinking in getting it, but I really don't know if it's good enaugh for the 50 PA fragments.

[Telina]

it doesn't throw monsters around like TD does. its got an insane base atp modifier. but its really slow to level i've been spaming it for two hours and its level 4

[pikachief]

Tornado Dance is by far the worst Double saber PA. I have all my Double saber Pas to lvl 30 except for Absolute Dance.


Absolute Dance has HORRIBLE first combo but the other 2 parst are amazing. So if u could lvl it up (its really hard to lvl up http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif) and get to use the second and third parts of the combo you'll be good with it.

Dont get this unless u got the extra PA frags cuz u might want the other striking phtoons arts more.

So yea, 2nd and 2rd combo good, but takes a while to lvl up.

[jerkweed399]

On 2007-12-26 13:43, pikachief wrote:
Tornado Dance is by far the worst Double saber PA. I have all my Double saber Pas to lvl 30 except for Absolute Dance.


Absolute Dance has HORRIBLE first combo but the other 2 parst are amazing. So if u could lvl it up (its really hard to lvl up http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif) and get to use the second and third parts of the combo you'll be good with it.

Dont get this unless u got the extra PA frags cuz u might want the other striking phtoons arts more.

So yea, 2nd and 2rd combo good, but takes a while to lvl up.



You mean Absolute dance is the worst?

[pikachief]

have u lvled it up?

if u read what i said AT ALL i said that the first combo is horrible and the other 2 parts are amazing >.>

[Dein]

I'm starting to feel like a broken record when I say this but Absolute Dance is worth the pa frags. If you spend the time to level it AD becomes one of the best mob killing PAs available to a Figunner on par with, and maybe a little better than, majarra in terms of damage.

[pikachief]

yea but no one bothers to lvl it up so they all think it sucks >.> http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[JAFO22000]

I got the new twin dagger PA. It's kewl!

[pikachief]

lol yup i made "ninja Kitty" jsut for the dagger PA http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[ShawnLeeGuku]

First part of the combo looks cool if you like Bankotsu from Inuyasha. Second combo, according to my friend in the game, is like a double saber omnislash, and I have yet to get the third combo, but I'm working on it.

[Dragwind]

It's supposedly pretty good hearing from some friends who have lvled it up to 21 thus far, but be warned - It lvls up quite slowly.

[Telina]

i found if you treat absolute dance like a spell, and level it in the cubby holes and from behind walls in sleeping warriors, it isn't too bad. get some badira behind the walls of the single room block in SW and just fire away, its boring as all hell, but i really want to get this pa up for my alt.

[SyThaGhost730]

Its the Best double saber PA Hands down. takes forever to lvl from 1-11 but after that it speeds up a little. The first hit is w/e but the 2nd knocks enemies up and the last hit clears em out like the last hit of majarra but better. None of the other double saber skills cant even come close to taking as much damage or look as good as Absolute dance.

[ljkkjlcm9]

ok, I'm done with anyone who says it's bad
I officially have it at level 39 now, and I can take on a group of 6 Vahra, and they're all dead by the end of 1 combo

Simply, the first hit is slow, as they begin to approach, I start the PA. By JA the second attack, I do 1800 damage each hit on the second part, and they go straight up into the air. It hits a bunch of times, never bothered to count how many. Then JA'ing the last hit, they're all trying to get up, unable to attack from part 2, and I dish out 3000+ damage on the last hit. If I missed an enemy somewhere in the combo, the blow away makes it possible to see how many are left, if any, and switch to a more appropriate 1v1 weapon, such as saber/shadoog.

This PA completely decimates small/medium groups at high levels.

THE JACKEL

[Ahkaskar]

I might check this PA out if it's not too many frags. I haven't been too interested in it since in the video I've seen of it, the damage was pretty terrible. (Although now that I look at it again, something tells me it was from the single player. Like the double saber having 200-ish PP.) I might add though, that I don't think the Double saber needs a PA to decimate small groups of monsters. It's kinda defined as an AoE sort of weapon to begin with...

Personally, I like and use Tornado Dance, but I'm one of those types that can at least use it intelligently. Like for instance when an Ollaka King appears I might use it to knock it down to keep them from sending the other Ollakas into a frenzy. Instead of the other use which people seem to think is all TD does: using it constantly to send creatures every which way.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ahkaskar on 2007-12-27 04:41 ]</font>

[Cry0]

i might check it out. but what's witht he hatred for tornado dance? it's no team pa, surely, if you spam it, but if you're somewhat half decent with it, you can single out dangerous enemies with it, while the rest of the group take on the other leftovers, or, you could just herd enemies back togetehr, if you know what you're doing. But, indeed, many people spam it, and then it get annoying. It's a real life saver in solo though.

i might try to level absolute dance after all... hearing this.

[Ahkaskar]

I think the dislike for TD comes from people playing non-Fighgunners and getting royally irritated by its misuse. (e.g., "I hated when people misused it so now that I'm a Fighgunner I can say for sure that it's useless and I hate it!") That and there are likely a lot of people out there who are well and content to just listen to other people condemn PAs because it seems like a good idea.

[Dein]

On 2007-12-27 11:10, Ahkaskar wrote:
I think the dislike for TD comes from people playing non-Fighgunners and getting royally irritated by its misuse. (e.g., "I hated when people misused it so now that I'm a Fighgunner I can say for sure that it's useless and I hate it!") That and there are likely a lot of people out there who are well and content to just listen to other people condemn PAs because it seems like a good idea.



Complaints about TD are generally true even if they get exaggerated. When I last played the NA servers I got TD up to lvl 30 and grew to hate using it in the process. It's great for stunning large enemies and attacking fast but the damage it deals pales in comparison to Spiral, Gravity, and Absolute Dance. Not only that but if you try to use it on anything but large enemies you'll find it hard to land all the hits when you blow enemies everywhere unless you use a freeze trap or corner them against a wall.

[ljkkjlcm9]

TD has its uses. Goshin, Sendillan, and basically any other enemy that doesn't get blown away it completely decimates.

THE JACKEL

[Ahkaskar]

I won't argue that TD has earned a bad rap. But I think it's largely in the Fighgunner and whether or not they're a total twit. If you absolutely must use it on the small fry and make it hard for the Fortetecher to AoE, you need to learn a new trick.

Honestly, only the second and third combos of Spiral or the last combo of Gravity do anywhere near decent damage. With TD around 16 or so, I already do more on each hit of TD than on any individual hit of Spiral's first combo or Gravity's first or second combo.

When I used Spiral or Gravity, I avoided using it in situations where I couldn't maximize the number of hits in some way. If you aren't at least hitting two targets, you may as well use the Twin Sabers. It's a far better use of time, effort and Photon Power. Basically, I used it against bosses like the Omna and groups of enemies like Ollakas or Ageetas. Spiral generally knocks things every which way with the second combo though, so I found it next to useless to even consider the third combo since all of my targets had been knocked clear out of reach.

On the whole though, I find Gravity's average damage to be comparable to TD. I prefer to use TD when I fight one particularly nasty monster, like a leader/King, or when I fight a boss like the Omna, as now that I have the JA, it's potentially easier to just leave TD on and strike away with JA. Each strike of TD hits up to three targets and there are a total of 6 strikes (I think, it might actually be 5). Against a level 55 Omna, I can do about 450 damage per hit (I think, anyway--this is off the top of my head) so that's 3 hits * 6 strikes * 450 damage = 8100 damage. Not too shabby.

If I'm wrong about the number of strikes in TD, I'm sorry. I can't check right now since I'm at work. The point is though, TD is pretty good for my use. If I use it against a leader monster, I only do those 6 or so strikes, but it keeps them from wreaking whatever havoc on the group. I can keep it completely pinned while my teammates go to town on the rest. Like I've mentioned before, this is especially important with Ollaka leaders. If you encounter one, they tend to cause the rest of the "herd" to go into a frenzy of charging which is kind of like diving into a tornado. TD is just simple enough to do that job and do it really, really well.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ahkaskar on 2007-12-27 13:08 ]</font>

[Dein]

On 2007-12-27 13:06, Ahkaskar wrote:
I won't argue that TD has earned a bad rap. But I think it's largely in the Fighgunner and whether or not they're a total twit. If you absolutely must use it on the small fry and make it hard for the Fortetecher to AoE, you need to learn a new trick.

Honestly, only the second and third combos of Spiral or the last combo of Gravity do anywhere near decent damage. With TD around 16 or so, I already do more on each hit of TD than on any individual hit of Spiral's first combo or Gravity's first or second combo.

When I used Spiral or Gravity, I avoided using it in situations where I couldn't maximize the number of hits in some way. If you aren't at least hitting two targets, you may as well use the Twin Sabers. It's a far better use of time, effort and Photon Power. Basically, I used it against bosses like the Omna and groups of enemies like Ollakas or Ageetas. Spiral generally knocks things every which way with the second combo though, so I found it next to useless to even consider the third combo since all of my targets had been knocked clear out of reach.

On the whole though, I find Gravity's average damage to be comparable to TD. I prefer to use TD when I fight one particularly nasty monster, like a leader/King, or when I fight a boss like the Omna, as now that I have the JA, it's potentially easier to just leave TD on and strike away with JA. Each strike of TD hits up to three targets and there are a total of 6 strikes (I think, it might actually be 5). Against a level 55 Omna, I can do about 450 damage per hit (I think, anyway--this is off the top of my head) so that's 3 hits * 6 strikes * 450 damage = 8100 damage. Not too shabby.

If I'm wrong about the number of strikes in TD, I'm sorry. I can't check right now since I'm at work. The point is though, TD is pretty good for my use. If I use it against a leader monster, I only do those 6 or so strikes, but it keeps them from wreaking whatever havoc on the group. I can keep it completely pinned while my teammates go to town on the rest. Like I've mentioned before, this is especially important with Ollaka leaders. If you encounter one, they tend to cause the rest of the "herd" to go into a frenzy of charging which is kind of like diving into a tornado. TD is just simple enough to do that job and do it really, really well.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ahkaskar on 2007-12-27 13:08 ]</font>


TD hits 2 targets 4 times, just making that correction. It'd be a lot better if it did hit another target though.

Anyway, TD does have its uses but I've found Absolute Dance is better in almost every situation than TD and the other double saber PAs. I can run into a group of enemies with AD and keep them busy and gathered together by just using the first two parts of it and I'll deal a great amount of damage from the skill and normal attacks I throw between uses while the enemies are recovering from being launched. And since the second part of AD launches every hit it makes it good at stunning larger enemies too so I can manage most situations with a single PA if I choose to. About the only enemy I'd rather use Tornado Dance for would be Svaltus. They use their AOE knock back attack far too often when you get close to them to be able to pull off AD while TD does allow you to get in from a distance and get away at the same time.

[Ahkaskar]

What? No. I'm sure it hits 3 targets. Try using it against an Omnagoug's knees.

I'll try out AD based on what you've said, though.

[Aviendha]

On 2007-12-27 14:59, Ahkaskar wrote:
What? No. I'm sure it hits 3 targets. Try using it against an Omnagoug's knees.

I'll try out AD based on what you've said, though.


I'm sure you're wrong.

[gryphonvii]

only 2 targets

[Ahkaskar]

Okay, okay. Sheesh, I get it.

Ever had one of those times you could swear something was, up and down, and then you go check for yourself? Yeah. I had a guess as to why I thought that; with the Omnagoug, occasionally I'd hit the tail so I'd think it was hitting three locations and just being inconsistent.

I tried out all three PAs I have and got some numbers. These are all collected against the same level 30 Omnagoug.

Spiral Dance: 15 PP
1st combo: 340 average (2 targets, 3 hits)
2nd combo: 770 average (2 targets, 2 hits)
3rd combo: 840 average (2 targets, 3 hits)

Gravity Dance: 18 PP
1st combo: 310 average (2 targets, 4 hits)
2nd combo: 470 average (3 targets, 2 hits)
3rd combo: 1080 average (3 targets, 1 hit)

Tornado Dance: 33 PP (mine's at level 18, so this is the lowest of the three)
500 average (2 targets, 4 hits)

For the sake of academia lets add them up.
SD = 2040 + 3080 + 5040 = 10160 @ 45 PP or 225 d/PP
GD = 2480 + 2820 + 3240 = 8540 @ 54 PP or 158 d/PP
TD = 4000 @ 33 PP or 121 d/PP

I stand doubly corrected. Well, at least I can still try to rationalize.

I still find Tornado Dance rather good at keeping Ollaka Kings down--Bogga Zubba just can't quite cut it for me and I'd rather do cartwheels with Bogga Danga. However, if TD really did have a third hit, it'd be better than GD.

Generally though, I still think TD is easier to use. I think when I used GD at first, I liked it, but the fact that it only hit two targets with the first combo and three with the second really broke it for me. I mean, here is a weapon that can hit four targets normally and I'm barely putting that to use. I tended to get whacked over the head while I spun around because I was only hitting half the crowd. Again, with Spiral Dance, I found the second combo knocked the small fry away so I would often waste the third combo completely falling short of them. That last combo is kind of important to that PA's usefulness.

After reviewing this though, and looking at the information in the JP PSU Wiki (http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fpsu.fei-yen.jp%2Fwiki%2Fhtml%2F&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8), I think I can make a guess about AD.

This is only speculation, based off the damage I did, listed above, calculating for a level 21 AD.
1st combo: 915 average (3 targets, 1 hit)
2nd combo: 575 average (3 targets, 4 hits)
3rd combo: 900 average (4 targets, 1 hit)

2745 + 6900 + 3600 = 10755 @ 60 PP or 180 d/PP

Of course, like I said, that's speculation. I don't have any solid data to back that up. Maybe we could get someone here to put up some numbers for AD and another DS PA to compare with. On a side note if my level 18 TD hit three targets, it'd be around 180 d/PP, too.

[Dein]

On 2007-12-27 17:59, Ahkaskar wrote:
This is only speculation, based off the damage I did, listed above, calculating for a level 21 AD.
1st combo: 915 average (3 targets, 1 hit)
2nd combo: 575 average (3 targets, 4 hits)
3rd combo: 900 average (4 targets, 1 hit)

2745 + 6900 + 3600 = 10755 @ 60 PP or 180 d/PP

Of course, like I said, that's speculation. I don't have any solid data to back that up. Maybe we could get someone here to put up some numbers for AD and another DS PA to compare with. On a side note if my level 18 TD hit three targets, it'd be around 180 d/PP, too.



I'll admit that I haven't capped or even really touched the other Double Saber PAs, aside from Spiral Dance, after getting Absolute Dance on the JP servers but I can give you numbers I've seen from Absolute Dance with my Crea Doubles. For the sake of it I'll list my stats before touching the numbers: I'm lvl 128, lvl 15 Fi, my atp is 1307+60+30 with hard/knight and Castest Line, my Crea Doubles are ground 4 times with 46% ice, AD is lvl 40, and I'm a human.

Anyway, with shifta from other players and JA (usually 21+)
Enemies not weak to Ice
First Combo: 2,400~2,600 dmg x3
Second Combo: 1,600~1,800 dmg x12
Third Combo: 2,600~2,800 dmg x4

Which can total up to: 36,800~40,600 dmg

Against enemies weak to Ice
First Combo: 3,000~3,200 dmg x3
Second Combo: 2,000~2,200 dmg x12
Third Combo: 3,200~3,400 dmg x4

Total: 45,800~49,600 dmg

These are ball park numbers that I usually see from AD. Even if I don't JA the skill the lowest I get from it is around 1,100 from the second combo each hit. If I'm trying to save time and I don't JA the first combo for AD then usually it's damage is around the same as the second combo's if I JA that part.

[pikachief]

On 2007-12-27 15:58, Aviendha wrote:

On 2007-12-27 14:59, Ahkaskar wrote:
What? No. I'm sure it hits 3 targets. Try using it against an Omnagoug's knees.

I'll try out AD based on what you've said, though.


I'm sure you're wrong.



read that wrong sorry, try it ona gol dova tornado dance hits more than 2 im sure :S

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: pikachief on 2007-12-27 20:08 ]</font>

[ljkkjlcm9]

On 2007-12-27 20:00, Dein wrote:

On 2007-12-27 17:59, Ahkaskar wrote:
This is only speculation, based off the damage I did, listed above, calculating for a level 21 AD.
1st combo: 915 average (3 targets, 1 hit)
2nd combo: 575 average (3 targets, 4 hits)
3rd combo: 900 average (4 targets, 1 hit)

2745 + 6900 + 3600 = 10755 @ 60 PP or 180 d/PP

Of course, like I said, that's speculation. I don't have any solid data to back that up. Maybe we could get someone here to put up some numbers for AD and another DS PA to compare with. On a side note if my level 18 TD hit three targets, it'd be around 180 d/PP, too.



I'll admit that I haven't capped or even really touched the other Double Saber PAs, aside from Spiral Dance, after getting Absolute Dance on the JP servers but I can give you numbers I've seen from Absolute Dance with my Crea Doubles. For the sake of it I'll list my stats before touching the numbers: I'm lvl 128, lvl 15 Fi, my atp is 1307+60+30 with hard/knight and Castest Line, my Crea Doubles are ground 4 times with 46% ice, AD is lvl 40, and I'm a human.

Anyway, with shifta from other players and JA (usually 21+)
Enemies not weak to Ice
First Combo: 2,400~2,600 dmg x3
Second Combo: 1,600~1,800 dmg x12
Third Combo: 2,600~2,800 dmg x4

Which can total up to: 36,800~40,600 dmg

Against enemies weak to Ice
First Combo: 3,000~3,200 dmg x3
Second Combo: 2,000~2,200 dmg x12
Third Combo: 3,200~3,400 dmg x4

Total: 45,800~49,600 dmg

These are ball park numbers that I usually see from AD. Even if I don't JA the skill the lowest I get from it is around 1,100 from the second combo each hit. If I'm trying to save time and I don't JA the first combo for AD then usually it's damage is around the same as the second combo's if I JA that part.


that's pretty much what I do as a level 110 Beast 15 figh, with hard/knight as well. My ice crea doubles is 44% grounded 4 times lol

THE JACKEL

[Ahkaskar]

On 2007-12-27 20:00, Dein wrote:
Anyway, with shifta from other players and JA (usually 21+)
Enemies not weak to Ice
First Combo: 2,400~2,600 dmg x3
Second Combo: 1,600~1,800 dmg x12
Third Combo: 2,600~2,800 dmg x4

Which can total up to: 36,800~40,600 dmg

Those numbers are each individual strike? Geez. Hopefully the next 40 levels have nearly that effect on my damage.

[Reginaldo]

AD dance ftw, with 50% crea doubles I do over 3k with JA with the first hit alone on opposite element mobs.

This is with an SPS equipped btw, also I'm a male Human Fighgunner 15.

[Gen2000]

The only bad part is the first combo, after that it's incredible. Heh kind of wish they switched up the order of Combo 1 and Combo 2.

[Akaimizu]

Almost reminds me of Double Sabers in general. The first part "*eh*", the 2nd part "Wow! I'm ready to enter the tournment where 'The Legend will Never die!!'"

[Elley]

@.@

Just use what you like, everyone! The point is to have fun http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Dracos]

2nd part it the only good part to me, The first and 3rd are like the same thing.