just for fun-ideas for human and newman "nanoblasts"

[galaxy]

i was just thinking about, purely theoretically, if humans and newmans were to get a nano-blast type attack, what they would be like. this isnt a post to beg for their introduction, but more of a just for kicks, what would they be like post?

so feel free to post your ideas about what would make sense thematically. here are my ideas:

for newman: the commonly mentioned summoning could work. you would choose between a number of different elementally based summonable creatures, large and imposing, detailed, and awesome looking creatures, who'd follow you like an npc for as long as a nanoblast lasts.

another idea: photon burst-newmans are have a stronger grasp of photon manipulation. this nanoblast would be a spell-like ability that would function sort of like an EX trap. you wouldnt set it or anything, but you'd use it, and it'd be an attack that last for a bit, dealing consistent damage ticks. it'd surround you, and the choices would be of element and type (they'd be similar to linear types, ra-types, and gi-types, in the sense that you'd choose if they would go in a straight line, in an area in front of you, or surround you).

third idea: pretty much just a support one. i don't find this one too useful, but it could work i guess. using it would restore all pp on the party's weapons, maybe also give them lvl 4 (or 5?) buffs, or give them an accelerated regeneration ability, like giresta but stronger.

anyway, for human:

photon suit: so you know how guardians switch there weapons in an out with there little gadget thingy (its mentioned in the offline story mode, i just forgot what its called)? well, humans could use it to bring out a special suit. it would function similarly to a nanoblast in that it transformed you for a specific period of time. however, the difference was that you still used your equipped weapon, and could use your PA's and such. it'd provide a slight burst to stats, but not as much as with a nanoblast. instead, the draw was that it increased your attack and run speed exponentially. then you could choose different suits that had different supplements: one allowed you to use PA's without pp cost during the transformation period, one added regeneration, one allowed you to hit additional enemies with your skills (increased range of attacks/techs also), that kind of thing.

another idea: grants them the use of a special, buffed weapon. pretty much, they bring out an awesome looking, buffed weapon of their choice that replaces there current weapon for a while. functions just like any other weapon of the same type (like if you chose a nano-sword, or nano-saber, or nano-rod), but it's just buffed considerably.

anyway, what are some other ideas?

[Retehi]

Photon Simultaneous Party Boot.

[NPCMook]

Humans: Tanks
Newmans: Summons

Someone had to do it right? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Zael]

Both: Photon Blasts

[Dragwind]

For humans, I think actually being able to use a "magic" attack like in the older Phantasy Star series would be neat. I'm guessing it would look something similar to an SUV. As for newmans....summon claws and jump around? lolol

No idea for the newmans.

[AnamanaAU]

How about this?

Humans get the ability to wish they were good at something. heh heh.

[Weeaboolits]

Hamburger assault.

[Sinue_v2]

The problem I see with most suggestions is that they're not race specific. Summoning? I suppose that could be considered race specific - but there's nothing in the Newman race description that even closely matches that. And this isn't Final Fantasy. I don't want to see people calling down Bahamut in a Phantasy Star game and calling him De Ragnus. The power-suit and uber weapon ideas are nice, but what reason is there for NOT allowing other races to use it?

Humans: Meggido. An old technique to the franchise which has been largely glazed over, and traditionally human only. Make it powerful, but also require that the player preform some sort of solo quest or mission, like a challenge mode, to obtain it. Fill the quest with enemies, traps, mazes, and "choice" options which the player must answer satisfactorily in order to be deemed worthy of such a technique. None of that "trading PA frags" or just going down to the local store and buying it bullshit. There could be several different varieties of Meggido as well, such as one that affects a wide area, or that affects a single enemy. Or even one that inflicts a wide variety of status effects. Mix it up a bit and expand on it. Though I still like the idea of having it do MASSIVE damage at the cost of the caster's HP. Like say... 75% of his, or 50% of the parties HP. If you're below the needed HP - it could kill you or just drop you to 1HP and force a 3-5 second lag between the cast and the ability to heal yourself. However, you can only have one variety at any given time. Also, each different Meggido attack has a different and unique quest or challenge you must undertake - preferably tailored to suit the theme of the attack.

Newmans: Temporary speed and accuracy boost. Or just give them an innate and permanent speed boost to both melee and techs which could be stackable with /quick units and Acro jobs. They're supposed to have heightened reflexes and mental capacity anyhow, but that's not represented in the gameplay. Only the mental capacity is. Not to mention that it would help shore up their damage potential in melee a bit by leaving them weaker, but quicker, than the other races. Still not on par with Beasts or Casts - but approaching humans in overall DoT.. at least, until the Human decides to use his Meggido.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2007-12-27 01:50 ]</font>

[magenta]

for humans
i think a berserker time mode, where their atp and def, is boosted for a short period, kinda like a beast but without transformation, but also humans still being able to use weapons.

newman would be like a tech type suv like summon, or like human.. boosted techs for short period of time.

[Zabrio]

On 2007-12-27 00:02, galaxy wrote:
i was just thinking about, purely theoretically, if humans and newmans were to get a nano-blast type attack, what they would be like. this isnt a post to beg for their introduction, but more of a just for kicks, what would they be like post?

so feel free to post your ideas about what would make sense thematically. here are my ideas:

for newman: the commonly mentioned summoning could work. you would choose between a number of different elementally based summonable creatures, large and imposing, detailed, and awesome looking creatures, who'd follow you like an npc for as long as a nanoblast lasts.

another idea: photon burst-newmans are have a stronger grasp of photon manipulation. this nanoblast would be a spell-like ability that would function sort of like an EX trap. you wouldnt set it or anything, but you'd use it, and it'd be an attack that last for a bit, dealing consistent damage ticks. it'd surround you, and the choices would be of element and type (they'd be similar to linear types, ra-types, and gi-types, in the sense that you'd choose if they would go in a straight line, in an area in front of you, or surround you).

third idea: pretty much just a support one. i don't find this one too useful, but it could work i guess. using it would restore all pp on the party's weapons, maybe also give them lvl 4 (or 5?) buffs, or give them an accelerated regeneration ability, like giresta but stronger.

anyway, for human:

photon suit: so you know how guardians switch there weapons in an out with there little gadget thingy (its mentioned in the offline story mode, i just forgot what its called)? well, humans could use it to bring out a special suit. it would function similarly to a nanoblast in that it transformed you for a specific period of time. however, the difference was that you still used your equipped weapon, and could use your PA's and such. it'd provide a slight burst to stats, but not as much as with a nanoblast. instead, the draw was that it increased your attack and run speed exponentially. then you could choose different suits that had different supplements: one allowed you to use PA's without pp cost during the transformation period, one added regeneration, one allowed you to hit additional enemies with your skills (increased range of attacks/techs also), that kind of thing.

another idea: grants them the use of a special, buffed weapon. pretty much, they bring out an awesome looking, buffed weapon of their choice that replaces there current weapon for a while. functions just like any other weapon of the same type (like if you chose a nano-sword, or nano-saber, or nano-rod), but it's just buffed considerably.

anyway, what are some other ideas?


Nanotransformer

[milka]

Newmans - Magic like Goden Axe Super Full Bar (http://en.netlog.com/go/videos/videoid=729044)

Humans - Transformer like Devil May Cry.. Invincible.. Strong and Fast (http://en.netlog.com/go/videos/videoid=729066)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: milka on 2007-12-27 06:24 ]</font>

[Ezodagrom]

On 2007-12-27 01:33, Sinue_v2 wrote:
Or just give them an innate and permanent speed boost to both melee and techs which could be stackable with /quick units and Acro jobs. They're supposed to have heightened reflexes and mental capacity anyhow, but that's not represented in the gameplay. Only the mental capacity is. Not to mention that it would help shore up their damage potential in melee a bit by leaving them weaker, but quicker, than the other races. Still not on par with Beasts or Casts - but approaching humans in overall DoT.

Completely agree with this.

In my opinion, newmans should be fast hunters/forces and not magic elves <.<
(before pso, numans weren't magic elves...)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ezodagrom on 2007-12-27 06:19 ]</font>

[Krisan]

Why do people try to think up some big complicated summon stuff for the Newman race? I mean, if you really wanted something like that.. the most logical course of action would be for Sega to mimic PSO's Photon Blasts.. Those were essentially summoned creatures afterall, and they worked a lot like SUV's so it would fit pretty inline with how these special abilities work..

Honestly though, neither race needs a special.. They're fine as it is.

[AlphaDragoon]

Newmans SHOULDN'T be "space elves" since they WEREN'T IN THE ORIGINAL PS...but I guess now they are. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

So, for my ideas...

Human:

Super PA - Based on whatever weapon you're using. Invincible for the duration, hits really freaking hard, and hits multiple targets ( or less depending on PA, maybe one's an uber powerful yet single target). Like SUV basically but tied to the weapon and not some thing you have to equip to the Extra Slot.

Photon Blast - What everyone else has already said, but it bears repeating.

Hyper Mode - Character movement gets faster, attack speed increases (like, double AF speed) has unlimited PP and attacks hit harder (not way harder as that would be too cheap).

Newmans:

Photon Blast - See above.

Super Technic - Since Newmans are now space elves for God knows what reason (make the effing Beasts or Casts the magicians, Newmans were fighters >.>), all of them have innate magical ability no matter what class they are. Thus, make them able to unleash some uber Technic akin to a giant laser beam, wide effing explosion, etc.

Hyper Mode - Similar to Human version only they blast magical shots (more like energy blasts) instead of using PAs. PP still unlimited, and speed still is increased.

[Reipard]

Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaace Elves

I love the idea of Newmans getting an inherent speed and accuracy multiplier. That'd make Newmans much more viable to use as well, anything but a mage (and then, even more viable as a mage too).

[darkante]

Why not just make Newmans have the ability too draw out a 10 times sized explosion like rafoie although the element is random but the damage is huge even if it´s the same element and reach all enemies in the room.

Or if we are gonna go after the heighthened reflex direction.
Then they could get a neat cutscene , under which they call forth the magic to momentarily teleport and either randomly let loose a magic blast or a sword combo which do insane damage but because they excede their life support capability..they die after it.

2 ideas for Newmans which could work.
Defintively not for Human though.

[Apone]

I totally agree with the newman speed boost, sort of like the redguard "adrenaline rush" from Elder scrolls 4. Although given the history of newmans I think they should be faster all the time but since that aint gonna happen... If any one has played the PS2 version of Shinobi then they are familiar with the "tate" attack where you attack abunch of nearby enemies and then they would all die at the same time, that would be cool. I think newmans should be more like ninjas than "space elves" (sigh)
And I completely agree with meggiddo for humans but since we all know sega wont send us on a cool quest to get it , maybe it wouldnt be available until level 80? The Megid technique was always high level after all. In the intrest of data compression maybe megid could be some kind of re-colored Gi tech with an insane damage modifier with an ex trap effect.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I'm fine with Humans the way they are, Newmans could stand to get something cool, maybe a built-in Acro-like speed boost for melee and technics. If they're the smartest race, then they should be able to have faster reflexes and such.

[DraginHikari]

I've kind of come up with goofy ideas of my own which are kind of more situational then anything. Understand that these are just goofy theories that just came accros to me.

Human: Final PAs, the idea would be you have to learn the disk much like you would any Photon art but you can only learn one of these. When your meter gets full you could equip the proper weapon and unleash one hell of a flashy attack on one target or an area. This could work with any of the weapon types but the biggest flaw with this is the list might be too long XD

Newmans: Elemental Burst, basically since the newman and the communion are so tied into Photons that I think they're could be a large, photon blast like attack based on the user's shieldline element. Like a large range verison of Regrants for light. Or maybe an explosive sphere emitting from the user for Fire and so on.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Well, actually, the best idea would have been if Beasts and CASTs simply had no Nanoblast or SUVs. At the same time though, maybe give Beasts TP at the level of a Newman's ATP so that they can be more reasonable at Force. Don't know about CAST since they're robotsBut yeah, Beasts were supposed to suck at Ranger, and them sucking at Ranger and Force would have been a good reason for them having the Nanoblast. But yeah, even on my Male Beast FF alt, I don't have a Nanoblast badge on him at lv 63, and he still does awesome, showing that special abilities are more of a luxury than a necessity. Then people won't complain about Humans are Newmans having nothing.

[Ashkahn]

Humans will gain the ability to be wielded as a weapon by CASTS and Beasts. Although, it's really less about them gaining the ability than it is the CASTS and Beasts finally finding something useful to do with Humans.

Newmen will cast ultra-mega-super-d00p3r Gi-Ra-Damfoie. The Newman spontaneously combusts, obliterating all enemies in the entire block while reducing the caster to a tidy pile of ash. Requires a Diadu to cast.

[superdood22]

just give newmans special summoning thignies and humans street fighter like special attacks. THAT IS LIKE THE EASIEST AND BEST SUGGESTION, not all this other difficult bullshit people keeping saying (tanks ftl).

[Ezodagrom]

summons...this isnt final fantasy D:

[Randomness]

If you want something that "fits" for being Newman-only, give them the ability to call in a lattice shield temporarily on the whole party. Basically, they give the whole party the effect of those pesky shields employed by Deghana and Maghana.

As for Humans, I say give them an overall stat boost, and increase the bonuses for hybrid jobs.

EDIT:Even better, give newmans options for the shield. Such as total defense, tech-reflecting, melee-reflecting, half-reflecting (As in, stops and reflects half the damage of any attack).


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Randomness on 2007-12-27 10:10 ]</font>

[superdood22]

what is so cool about 1-hits? its BORING!!! cut that 1-hit bullshit, big numbers are so 2001. attacks that hit ALOT and can be comboed into different attacks and spells is where its at, if only the technics hit multiple times they would be slightly more exciting from its on the bar bland-ness-ness-ness.

[superdood22]

On 2007-12-27 10:04, Ezodagrom wrote:
summons...this isnt final fantasy D:

tales of symphonia has summons, castelvania has summons, devil may cry sort of has summons. your really not getting your point across. :/

[chibiLegolas]

Humans: melee/tech/bullet speed boost for a short time. Maybe with increased crit rate. The more humans in party, the longer the duration.

IMO, humans have no business treding on beast's physical increases with their nanoblasts. So adding something like that to humans is pointless. But after seeing AF/AT's speed boosts, we know it's possible in game to have such a thing (except the bullets). And to give a minor boost like this to human's isn't overbalancing. And would help further encourage human AT/AF, since with this idea, they'd get a momentary, faster attack speed.

Newmans: summoning/familiars in a form of a shadoog/NPC. Their summoning can't be similiar to a SUV. So instead, newmans summoning a little helper like a shadoog or NPC is more fair. Game mechanic wise, I'm not sure how it'll work since you can only have 6 ppl total in a room (players + NPC alike). And Shadoogs take up a left handed slot.

[Jife_Jifremok]

"A luxury not a necessity"...well, why should such luxuries be limited to half of the races? Just to make up for how ugly they are? Stats =/= specials.

How about this: Stats-wise, make every race equal in ATP, TP and special weapon usage (come on, what the fuck keeps humans from wielding Killer Elite or casts from Crea Sabers?). Now everyone (or noone)needs a special luxury attack.

Newmans could choose either a special SUV-like agile melee attack hitting all enemies in the room (I forget whose idea this was in a previous thread), or a Nanoblast-like ability to seamlessly chain together a bunch of Skills and Techniques (but no healing techs permitted).

Humans...well, since they're the "Creator" race and thus all-around, I can't think of anything that would fit them other than having vehicles...based on someone else's idea on this thread (I forget who), I say give them big mechs (mobile armor, assault suits, whateverthefuckyouwannacallem) armed with a souped-up version of whatever weapon they're holding. And just to make extra suggestions in la-la-land http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif, Perhaps give them different appearance and stats based on class: rangers getting the heavier, less mobile mechs, hunters getting the lighter, more agile ones more suitable for slicing shit up, and tech-mechs looking all magey and stuff.

Megiddo sounds nice, but I'm not so sure if it's human-specific...it seems to be more Protagonist-specific.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jife_Jifremok on 2007-12-27 10:29 ]</font>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

For summons, it would be better if they just made a totally new class that used Summons, and the damage from these summons used TP (lol, what else?), and maybe a Technic / Support hybrid class.

[Alis-Landeel]

On 2007-12-27 10:10, superdood22 wrote:

On 2007-12-27 10:04, Ezodagrom wrote:
summons...this isnt final fantasy D:

tales of symphonia has summons, castelvania has summons, devil may cry sort of has summons. your really not getting your point across. :/

...and Phantasy Star has never had "summons". So why do you want it? I can't see any logic on put mystic or spiritual power like summons in a science-fiction game like PS!

I vote for a big photon blast, like Golden Axe's magic.

[superdood22]

yes they have, Photon Blasts which were definitely a sort of summon.

[Alis-Landeel]

?!

[Jife_Jifremok]

On 2007-12-27 10:10, superdood22 wrote:

On 2007-12-27 10:04, Ezodagrom wrote:
summons...this isnt final fantasy D:

tales of symphonia has summons, castelvania has summons, devil may cry sort of has summons. your really not getting your point across. :/



Against my better judgment, I'm gonna respond to this...


The "Tales of..." series had summons since its first game on the SNES, Tales of Phantasia. Back then, summons actually made sense because nearly every spell in the book would pause the real-time combat and made for cheap undodgable hits. As combat became faster-paced with Tales of Eternia on the Playstation and NO spells paused the battle for cheap hits (just a slight pause for loading the bigger spells), summons became faster-paced and cooler cheap hits. But later on, summons played much less of a role. Smphonia, Sheena can only summon in OverLimit mode...and they weren't that great. I don't even recall them having a place in Tales of Rebirth, they don't even show up in combat in Tales of Legendia, and uhh...do they even show up at all in Tales of the Abyss? (Also, I have to say that the game-pausing cheap hit attacks like in TotA really don't belong in realtime combat...)

Castlevania has summons? What the fuck? What Castlevania is this? (Really, my last two Castlevanias were Harmony of Dissonance and Dracula X Chronicles.)

Devil May Cry's "Devil Trigger" is more like nanoblast.

[Jife_Jifremok]

On 2007-12-27 10:38, superdood22 wrote:
yes they have, Photon Blasts which were definitely a sort of summon.



And those Photon Blasts were the lamest "summons" I have ever seen in a game, and have absolutely nothing to do with traditional Phantasy canon or realtime combat. They were just tacked on for good measure. Oh, and most of them were more useless than the summons in Tales of Symphonia.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

About the "luxury not a necessity" thing, just trying to say, Humans and Newmans can be Fortefighters, Fortegunners, Fighgunners, Protransers and such just fine, and they don't even have special abilities. Beasts and CASTs have these things, plus better HP, ATP which is probably the most important stat for those classes, and have icing on the cake. I just don't think the ST races need these things, and thus, it would have been better if they weren't in this game. Now that I think of it, is this the only [MM]ORPG that even has this kind of thing for races?

[Laranas]

I still think Humans should get a MAG of some sort. It shouldn't go all the way to Lv200, maybe limit it at one Photon Blast (they need something that uses the Nano/SUV bar under their hp, after all) and the MAG can swing their stats so they're slightly better at the class they do choose.

[Akaimizu]

Actually, they weren't. They were just hard to prepare without organization. I've already seen a 3 or 4X Photon Blast just destroy bosses right away. Not just run of the mill ones either, but ones at the Hard or better difficulty. The thing is, they stacked and increased in power as they comboed with each other.

Still, I already like the shooter-bots in this game. They definitely (outside of the crazy PSO player stat boosting) seem to work a lot more for you than the mags did. Though everyone could use them.

People used to come up with the idea of summoning tanks for humans. Sounds kind of funny to me. Only because I also play Metal Slug. It's such a Marco Rossi thing to do. (I summon, Metal Slug!!)

[Angelo]

- NEWMAN: PHOTON BLASTS

I don't know why people continue to call them 'summons'. For people saying that summons don't belong in this game Every single character in PSO could use a summon. In fact 'summoning' was the only form of a 'limit break' in PSO.

Why Newmans should get it:
It seems magic-users in RPGs are always the one to recieve summons. In this game the Newmans are not only the magic 'race', but they are also closer to nature and seem like perfect candidates for people to tame the Photon Blast beasts of PSO. Besides, I know we'd all like to see the Deer and Dolphin Photon Blasts redone http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif (as if we haven't seen them a million times).

How they would work:

Since Beasts Nanoblasts let them control completely, and SUVs work in a powerful quick burst, Photon Blasts would have to be something a little different.

I was thinking that once a Newman performs the Photon Blast the summon stays on the field as a friendly NPC/Monster that does nothing but wildly spam it's attacks/heals/buffs/whatever
for 60 seconds. The damage would have to match that of Beasts, Nanoblast damage. Think of how awesome this would be; for those who remember the little polty-like twins Photon Blast from PSO, imagine them running around in synchronized fighting will casting Shifta and Deband on anyone close to them.

HOW TO OBTAIN THEM:

I had an interesting idea on how Photon Blasts could be recieved by leveling up Technics.. but then I remembered not every Newman is a techer. So I was thinking they would probably just be purchased like SUV weapons, only from another Shrine Maiden placed adjacent to the Luck Shrine Maiden at Shitenkaku. They would be placed in the 'extra' slot for armor.





HUMANS: ADRENALINE

Why humans should get it:

Humans, in my opinion, should get nothing. Because they're just humans. But that wouldn't be very nice would it? So I had a neat little idea for how humans could use adrenaline; a basic 'limit break' even us humans in the real world have.

How it would work

Adrenaline would be unique in the sense that it could be activated at nearly any time. Instead've the full bar having to be fueled to use their attack they can activate it once they have a bar 'section' on their meter (A bit like using the J-sword special in PSO). Once it's activated, depending on how full the bar is depends on how long it lasts. During this period of time run speed and attacking/casting speed would be dramatically increased (remember how Lina runs and attacks in Storymode, Episode 2, Chapter 1) along with the fact that enemies attacks would not make them flinch no matter what the level. This is not a huge major 'limit break', but the fact it can be activated at nearly any time and is used by humans makes it suitable.


HOW TO OBTAIN IT

There would be no obtaining it. Once your human hits level 20 then they've got it.



These are just my little ideas though and I understand that these will never happen. It's just nice to dream. :]





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Angelo on 2007-12-27 11:07 ]</font>

[Jife_Jifremok]

On 2007-12-27 10:47, Shiroryuu wrote:
...is this the only [MM]ORPG that even has this kind of thing for races?


Auto Assault, a realtime car-combat MMORPG in a post-apocalyptic Earth, had three races: Human, BioMek and Mutant. Upon reaching level 20 and completing a certain quest, a player obtained a chargable, Nanoblast-like "Hazard mode" that was different for each race. I forget the specifics of each one though, and the game server has been shut down for about half a year now I think. Underpopulated, and rightfully so---too much typical MMORPG bullshit, not enough of what made it stand out. (also, the beta was more fun than the retail.)

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Well, yeah, at least in that game each of the races had something. But yeah, you're right in saying that if there was such a luxury, only half of the races got it.

[Jife_Jifremok]

I also forgot to mention: Didn't each race have Photon Blasts? Though each race had the same options, didn't they? <_<

[Reipard]

On the Castlevania thing, summons were in SOTN and Rondo. But they were subtle. Maria's Item Crashes would summon the respective Chinese God of Direction the item was associated with. Alucard's shield+shield-rod techs would summon things to damage the whole screen.

[Angelo]

On 2007-12-27 11:17, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
I also forgot to mention: Didn't each race have Photon Blasts? Though each race had the same options, didn't they? <_<




Yes, any character could use any Photon Blast since they were attached to the MAG you were using.

There wasn't alot've focus on racial abilities in PSO since you couldn't really choose your race as freely as PSU.

[Akaimizu]

On 2007-12-27 11:23, Reipard wrote:
On the Castlevania thing, summons were in SOTN and Rondo. But they were subtle. Maria's Item Crashes would summon the respective Chinese God of Direction the item was associated with. Alucard's shield+shield-rod techs would summon things to damage the whole screen.



The non-subtle Summons were all through the Castlevania: Curse of Darkness game. Though I have to admit, they're more like familiars than Summons. Yes, you Summoned them, but they were closer to permanent Summons instead of the *borrowed* effect, where you bring em out and they do their thing a little bit, and then go away.

Probably the most prominent use of them, ever produced, for a Castlevania game. They had great use, sometimes solved puzzles, but they had large (in battle) use throughout the game.

Could've used more texture-work, but the game was one of the largest Castlevanias ever produced. At least when it comes to area real-estate.

[HaydenX]

Here is an idea for a blast which would be shared between humans and newmans...

TP Charge!

What this would do is launch a neutral, giant crea saber blade as a spell. It would go straight forward in a line doing damage based upon the user's TP (this is what makes it a human/newman thing...that and crea). It could also add a status effect, such as Stun 2 or something. It would pierce through resistances and defense.

[Pillan]

Every time I see one of these topics, I always wonder why no one ever puts any thought into how these new special abilities would be balanced. Right now Newmans and humans partial class bonuses, A rank Crea weapons, and significantly higher TP to balance the lack of aspecial abilities. Additionally, Newmans have rediculously high MST and humans have 5% bonuses to all stats as Acro- classes and a 3% bonus as Protranser.

So which of those do you plan to give up to get these new abilities? Raise Cast and Beast ATP so that the difference is even more noticable? Raise Cast and Beast TP so that Cast Fortetechers are as well off as Newman Fortefighters? Remove all the partial-class bonuses and reduce the human Acro-bonus to the standard 3%?

[xzidanex]

Humans should throw a pokeball, and a beast-slave (nanoblasting) will come out to defend the human (without straying far from the human). While the beast-slave is defending the human, the human will pull out some tools, and build a cast-slave within a few seconds, and the cast-slave will bust out some big guns and start shooting everything in the area. Yeah... >.>

[MSAksion]

NEWMAN - FORCE FIELD Nanoblast.

1) ELEMENT Absorbtion Shield - RAINBOW BEAST

This shield absorbs ONE element and any attack of that element that hits your shield will be severely reduced AND any attacks by you get a huge elemental bonus. Think the rainbow beast.

2) PHYSICAL Reduction Shield - SVALTUS

This shield can protect you for a period of time. It reduces all physical attacks directed at you such as melee or bullets. TECH is not stopped by this physical shield.

3) BUBBLE shield - KAMATOZE

- This shield protects the team while you concentrate
- Your friends can freely enter and leave your clear bubble shield's area of effect.
- Your friends may attack through the shield.
- Enemy BULLET is NULLIFIED.
- Enemy TECH is moderately reduced.
- Enemy Melee cannot penetrate the shield unless your friend is outside the field.
- Enemies may not enter your Shield
- The Newman projecting the field cannot do anything but move around at a walking pace.
- The team to have the sheild benefit must be close to the newman.
- The Ultimate in TEAM FORCE FIELD.

[Angelo]

On 2007-12-27 12:45, xzidanex wrote:
Humans should throw a pokeball, and a beast-slave (nanoblasting) will come out to defend the human (without straying far from the human). While the beast-slave is defending the human, the human will pull out some tools, and build a cast-slave within a few seconds, and the cast-slave will bust out some big guns and start shooting everything in the area. Yeah... >.>




Illuminus pig-bastard!!!!!!!!!

-NANOBLASTS-

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[AlphaDragoon]

On 2007-12-27 12:37, Pillan wrote:
Every time I see one of these topics, I always wonder why no one ever puts any thought into how these new special abilities would be balanced. Right now Newmans and humans partial class bonuses, A rank Crea weapons, and significantly higher TP to balance the lack of aspecial abilities.


You're kidding...right?

The Crea weapons were a PATHETIC way to try and make up for the ridiculousness of Nanoblasts/SUVs. And you know what's funny about those class bonuses Humans and Newmans get? THEY STILL DON'T MAKE THEM COMPARABLE TO BEAST/CAST. The only one that's really good at all is Human AF, and it took them until Illuminus to make that.

Seriously, everybody knows the Humans and (especially) Newmans got the shaft. Even though it won't happen, they should either get some sort of special attack or Beast/Cast gets nerfed. Flat out. Especially Beasts, who now have the stupidly cheap JA Nanoblast attacks.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AlphaDragoon on 2007-12-27 13:43 ]</font>

[chaostroop3]

human idea - i think if should change depending on class

melee- a preset attack combo like pull out a sword and impact the ground then charge like the tornato dance and hen throw your sword , or something

range - eather a super powerful singale shot , a homeing shot , or like the melee a pre-set combo of moves

magic -so much we can do here hes my ideas,summoning (yesssss) a wave of fire and ice that destroy everything in its path , like melee and range a pre-set combo of moves , or of course a attack like the hevans punisher

[Mewnie]

Humans and Newmans should just turn into a Cast or Beast for 30 seconds ;3

[Pillan]

On 2007-12-27 13:40, AlphaDragoon wrote:
And you know what's funny about those class bonuses Humans and Newmans get? THEY STILL DON'T MAKE THEM COMPARABLE TO BEAST/CAST. The only one that's really good at all is Human AF, and it took them until Illuminus to make that.


The bonuses aren’t supposed to make you stronger than another race. They’re just what the name implies, a bonus. Much like SUV weapons and Nanoblasts are just a bonus (we won’t get into how most skills can beat the power Nano at this point…). I mean, do Cast Fortegunners have more HP, ATP, TP, EVP, and MST than Beasts? Do Beast Fortefighters have more ATA, TP, EVP, and MST than humans and more DFP than Casts? Do Newman Fortetechers have more HP, ATP, and DFP than humans and more ATA than Casts? Then why should humans or Newmans surpass anyone in any stat as any class?

When you play human, you’re trading melee and ranged damage for the ability to use attack techs at a decent level (and you get a lot more TP than the ATP+ATA loss). When you plan Newman, you’re trading even more melee and ranged damage for the ability to use attack techs well and high magic resistance. If you don’t like that trade off then why aren’t you playing Beast or Cast?

Point being, they didn’t get shafted at all. It seems ultimately the real problem is that the class that gets decent SE access and good long range damage in addition to healing and support abilities isn’t the king of damage as well.

And that’s why a complete stat, bonus, and equipment rebalancing is necessary. It’s not that human and Newman are lacking. It’s that you think extra TP is more useless than I do.

[HaydenX]

On 2007-12-27 14:19, Mewnie wrote:
Humans and Newmans should just turn into a Cast or Beast for 30 seconds ;3



GFY please.

...


I like being a human. I also like special attacks. I know I'm not the only ones, so howaboudit ST?

[Shiryuu]

On 2007-12-27 14:19, Mewnie wrote:
Humans and Newmans should just turn into a Cast or Beast for 30 seconds ;3


I had a similar idea, except humans can turn into any of the three.

For newmans, tech/attack speed up + 0 pp consumption/0 damage from/for techs seems good.

[Mewnie]

On 2007-12-27 14:24, HaydenX wrote:

GFY please.

...


I like being a human. I also like special attacks. I know I'm not the only ones, so howaboudit ST?



If I could improve beast's ATA over losing Nano, I'd take the ATA.

Seriously, either it's Attack Nano, and hope you have a techer there to babysit you; Or just go Invulnerable Nano, and do shitastic damage that can be beat in normal form with the right element/PA.

[Sinue_v2]

Every single character in PSO could use a summon.

You're wrong. NO character or race could use summons in PSO. MAGS could Photon Blasts, not humans, numans, or casts. Remove the Mag and try to Photon Blast. Go on. Do it.

It's not race specific, and never has been. So it makes no sense to make it race specific in PSU. But even so, as said before, Photon Blasts were a tack-on and not really useful to begin with.

Further, it doesn't matter what other game besides Final Fantasy uses summons. Phantasy Star isn't any of those games. I dunno about everyone else, but I'd rather see Phantasy Star either continue in it's own established mythos's or create it's own new mythos rather than just copy/pasting cliches from other more popular RPGs in brainless "me too" fashion.

And if you wanted to get REALLY technical, it's the CASTs who would be better suited for Photon Blasts since they were the race with the closest ties to Mags in PSO via Elenor and the Soul of Steel plot path.


Megiddo sounds nice, but I'm not so sure if it's human-specific...it seems to be more Protagonist-specific.

The protagonists have always been human, right up to and including Ethan. Perhaps it is just coincidence. And while there is no hard evidence saying that it's human only, there is a strong precedence for it - so it's not too far of a stretch.

And I think most people are forgetting the true reason why Humans and Newmans don't have specials. It has nothing to do with gameplay balance, and the Crea Weapons "lame bonus" wasn't meant to be any sort of a real incentive.

The reason why Casts and Beasts have these special abilities is so that people would actually PLAY them. Most players are going to pick Newmans for aesthetic reasons - or pick human because, well, the players ARE human. These two types of characters are traditionally always the most popular. It's only a ploy by Sonic Team to spread the diversity of races you meet online. So in this sense, there really is no reason to give Newmans and Humans special abilities, because it would upset the racial balance.

[Alis-Landeel]

The Photon Blast from PSO wasn't a summon. Those "things" weren't "living things" and didn't come out from another dimensional plan, like a summon do. They were more like photon concentration, an energy attack.

No way to evoke a Svaltus or a Kamatoze in PSU.

That would be a PACCHIANATA!!

[Sychosis]

On 2007-12-27 17:09, Sinue_v2 wrote:
The reason why Casts and Beasts have these special abilities is so that people would actually PLAY them.


I think you're putting WAAAY too much stock in conformity.

People play fleshies because they think CASTs look ugly.

People play CASTs because they think fleshies look ugly.

People like to powergame.

People like to just be different.

You don't honestly think people would all be humans that look like their real life selves if there were no racial abilities, do you?

[Pillan]

On 2007-12-27 17:09, Sinue_v2 wrote:
The reason why Casts and Beasts have these special abilities is so that people would actually PLAY them. Most players are going to pick Newmans for aesthetic reasons - or pick human because, well, the players ARE human. These two types of characters are traditionally always the most popular. It's only a ploy by Sonic Team to spread the diversity of races you meet online. So in this sense, there really is no reason to give Newmans and Humans special abilities, because it would upset the racial balance.


Was the reason people picked humans and Newmans in PSO purely aesthetics? Or did it have more to do with the fact that tech access (primarily, healing and buffing) and extra ATA greatly outweighed the extra ATP, enhanced SE landing rate, trap vision, trap usage, and stun and poison immunity that Casts had? (That's a GC version or later comparison.)

I do agree that the current balance is a response to PSO, but I disagree for the reason why the balance was off before.

[Feign]

k so, so far we're stealing ideas from Final Fantasy, Berserk, and Xenogears.

To the guy who said "Newmans weren't in the original Phantasy Star": PSII, Nei, close enough you picky tart http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Best Newman idea thus far: Boosted Evade and Attack Speed. Except that you get both when you go Acro-class. Check some stat simulators; Newman Acrofighters at high levels have some seriously terrifying stats. It's a good idea, but they already worked it into the game through job change.

Best Huuumahn idea thus far: None. If you picked Human, you should've grasped by now where your strength lies. You can pick any job, any time, and know that you won't suck at it. Compare:

Human Hunter > Newman Hunter
Human Force < Newman Force

Your stats are balanced, and you even get BETTER bonuses as you move along the job list. Humans are about stats, giving them a "HA HA" special attack besides PAs would be...weird...

tl;dr version: Newmans/Humans are fine.

[Sinue_v2]

People like to powergame.

PSU is not a powergamers game. It's a casual game, meant to be easily accessable to new gamers and those who don't like the standard MMO grindfest formula of gameplay. And yes, I believe most casual gamers are going to be picking human or "lol elf" characters just out of familiarity.


Was the reason people picked humans and Newmans in PSO purely aesthetics?

For the most part, yes. Although HUmars were basically gods, which didn't help. RAmars were also fairly popular. More popular than any other class. And of course, nobody really played FOnewmn - largely because of how retarded people thought they looked. Stats didn't really figure into it.

Stats did play a decent role, but it was an afterthought to aesthetics in most cases.

[Sychosis]

On 2007-12-27 18:11, Sinue_v2 wrote:

People like to powergame.

PSU is not a powergamers game. It's a casual game, meant to be easily accessable to new gamers and those who don't like the standard MMO grindfest formula of gameplay. And yes, I believe most casual gamers are going to be picking human or "lol elf" characters just out of familiarity.


People find ways, trust me. The very fact that this topic exists is due to Humans and Newmans feeling outclassed on some level of effectiveness.

[AlphaDragoon]

On 2007-12-27 18:20, Sychosis wrote:
People find ways, trust me. The very fact that this topic exists is due to Humans and Newmans feeling outclassed on some level of effectiveness.

Actually, I think it's more due to people responding to the massive amount of Beast characters in PSU, mostly Fortefighters, spamming Chikki/Majarra, played by nubs who want to be stronger than everyone. And thus above stated people want the Humans/Newmans to have something similar so this influx of people choosing the same race/class for one reason alone won't occur.

But hey, you could be right.

[Ahkaskar]

On 2007-12-27 13:40, AlphaDragoon wrote:
And you know what's funny about those class bonuses Humans and Newmans get? THEY STILL DON'T MAKE THEM COMPARABLE TO BEAST/CAST. The only one that's really good at all is Human AF, and it took them until Illuminus to make that.

Both Acro classes, really.
Human Male Acrotecher (http://www.amesani.org/psu/enbeta/charstatus/calc.php?calc&type=1&sex=1&race=1&charLv=100&job=11&jobLv=15)
Beast Male Acrotecher (http://www.amesani.org/psu/enbeta/charstatus/calc.php?calc&type=1&sex=1&race=3&charLv=100&job=11&jobLv=15)



I'd say with beasts getting beaten out in all but two stat categories makes the humans quite a lot better for Acro classes. For PTs, humans lead in four categories and beasts in three. Though whether TP counts to a PT kind of makes things even.

All in all, I'd rather have fewer differences. Less making me feel like I have to pigeonhole my character, plz. Maybe I don't like the feeling that just because my beast isn't a Fortefighter and my CAST isn't a Fortegunner, that I'm not playing right, somehow.

[Feign]

PSU is trying too hard to be FFXI's successor.

The racial/job comparisons should be blatant

Sure, you can be a Taru Warrior / Newman Hunter. You'll be laughed at for some time though.

*Has a Newman Hunter for fun and challenge* http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif

[Jife_Jifremok]

To anyone who say that human versatility is a "special"...

Here's a simple chart to display that stats are NOT the same as having a neat little special to use every now and then.

Race: Strength + Special
Human: Balanced
Newman: Tech, Accuracy
CAST: Power, Accuracy + SUV
Beast: Power + Nanoblast

Note that each race has their stats, but only half the races have a special. Note that casts are good at everything except techs and have a special. Also note that newmans are inferior in everything except magic (and MAYBE certain low-acc weapons), yet don't get shit for specials. A cast fortetecher has a SUV, a newman fortefighter has what now?

Oh, I trailed off and talked about newman instead of human. Newman lack of special really makes no sense at all. But hey, humans have their balanced stats, but as I said before, stats are NOT specials. Humans need something they can charge up and unleash on the screen like the rest of them.

[Pillan]

On 2007-12-27 19:36, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
Note that each race has their stats, but only half the races have a special. Note that casts are good at everything except techs and have a special. Also note that newmans are inferior in everything except magic (and MAYBE certain low-acc weapons), yet don't get shit for specials. A cast fortetecher has a SUV, a newman fortefighter has what now?


Did you bother comparing how high the high stats are and how low the low stats are? Yes, Beasts get Nanoblasts and high HP and ATP, but they have about 65% of Newman TP and around 40% or so of Newman MST. That’s compared to Newmans having 76% Beast ATP and 85% or so of Cast DFP. When you take ATA and EVP into account, Newmans suffer even less in their low stats, unlike the stand-alone TP and MST stats. And then the deviations are lowered even further by all the bonuses both Newman and human get.

The trade off is a little more complex than that. Beasts have super high HP and ATP, higher end DFP, and a Nanoblast so that they’re generally the best hunters, but low ATA and TP, causing them to suffer as hunter early on, ranger until the long run, and force always. Casts have high HP, ATP, ATA, and DFP to make them good hunters and great rangers and an SUV, but they trade it for ridiculously low TP and MST. Humans still have high enough stats to be hunters, but they’re the first group that doesn’t have horrendous TP or MST (though their MST is still a lot less than Newman). And Newmans get the option of playing unrivaled forces without completely sucking at ranger or hunter, like Casts and Beasts do as force.

My point is, Newmans want a special, pay for it by lowering your ATP to 60% of Beasts and your DFP to 60% of Casts, so you actually suck as hunter. Similarly, humans would get their stats lowered to around 80% in every category. Either that or Cast TP and MST would get boosted to 80% and 60%, respectively.

Stats may not be specials, and bonuses may not be specials. Hell, Crea weapons may not be specials, but they’re still all taken into account in the balance. If you want a special, you have to trade something of equal value for it, just like any other exchange. And that is why I’ve been asking what do you all intend to trade?

But, yeah, no one really cares about all that because no one wants to play attack techer anymore apparently. So just go ahead and switch to a Cast or Beast Fortefighter main if that’s the case.

[Sychosis]

On 2007-12-27 20:25, Pillan wrote:
[Lots of stuff.]


Like Jife didn't take into account the difference between X and Y, only stating that X > Y, you also haven't given proper weight to the stats.

ATA and EVP both suffer from diminishing returns while stats like ATP and TP always give the same increase per point. Neither DFP nor MST can hold a candle to raw HP as far as defenses go. When big burly fighters take less relative damage from TECHNICs than Fortetechers do, there is a problem.

Sure, a Beast only has 65% of a Newman's TP, but how often will that come into play? Only 3 (maybe 4) types make any significant use of TP while 7 types make significant use of ATP.

And then there is the fact that almost 1/3rd of the TECHNICs in the game get 0 use from TP. You can't say the same for skills and bullets. None of them ignore ATP completely in the same way TECHNICs do.

Newmans may suffer less in their low stats, but suffer more often with their low stats. It's a bit of an apples and oranges scenario, but I feel statistically, the races are pretty well balanced. The only thing throwing them off of course, are these specials.

[Pillan]

Yes, you’re right, 8/9 classes can make good use of the ATP stat while only 4/9 classes can even access techniques. And then there are 2/9 which have zero TP dependence (one of those focuses on traps, which are only level dependent; this is basically the same argument as support techs making Beasts and Casts good techers). And then of course there are the partial class bonuses, Protranser bonus, and ridiculous human Acro bonus. So, taking that into account, the only class Newmans really suffer as is Fortefighter, but they still have nearly identical output and survivability to Cast Fighgunners as that class.

However, that brings us to the point of why are you playing human/Newman? So if you think trading a bit of HP, DFP, and ATP and a special for a huge amount of TP and MST isn’t a fair trade, why did you do it?

Is it really Sonic Team’s fault or a lack of balance because you don’t care about tech damage or playing the techer classes? Once again, you’re paying for the option. If you don’t use it, I’d say that’s more on you than on them. It’s the same with Crea weapons, special abilities (Casts being limited to 1/3 the armors in the game and Beasts inability to use recovery items during Nanoblasts being a couple obvious flaws there), and class bonuses.

But, yes, I’d say the current balance is well done. Just find some way to balance it. It doesn’t even have to be a complete stat rebalance. You could easily say “Newmans get a temporary speed increase but their EVP is reduced to 0 for the duration of the move and it cannot be used with weapons that are heald in both hands (basically, the Acro-speed rule), and they lose the bonuses to the partial classes.”

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-12-27 21:44 ]</font>

[Genoa]

You know protective barrier on Neudiaz on episode 3? Have like... little portable ones for the Newmans that they can use (only them, seeing they invented it and don't want to share the technology). Giving them brief invulnerability. It's nothing incredibly ubber or anything, and Forces put out so much damage anyways, they really only lack in defensive qualities... so a Force that can't take damage for a while would prove incredibly useful for Gi-techs in the fray and what not.

Humans can get on the Gurhal Welfare plan, 1000 Meseta per week and checks to recieve 2 Photon Charges, 5 Monomates, 3 Monofluids, and if you have children, 2 Moon Atomizer.

[Aviendha]

On 2007-12-27 21:40, Pillan wrote:
“Newmans get a temporary speed increase but their EVP is reduced to 0 for the duration of the move and it cannot be used with weapons that are heald in both hands (basically, the Acro-speed rule), and they lose the bonuses to the partial classes.”

Gib 0 EVP nao!

[Sychosis]

On 2007-12-27 21:40, Pillan wrote:
However, that brings us to the point of why are you playing human/Newman?


I can't speak for everyone, but I played a Newman Fortetecher initially because I liked the style of play. Playing a proper FT was a challenge, keeping everyone at the top of their game took a bit of effort. I do like maximizing my potential though, so Newman was a natural choice for the class for those instances where there is no more support to be done and the time for nuking came about. Ok, I might have lied a little. I play my Fortetecher because she is a remake of my PSO FOnewearl whom I loved to death. The stats and all that just matched up so perfectly, who was I to argue? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

It was fun for a while. It was nice to feel needed, or at the very least, wanted. Eventually the need for nukes dropped off, and now with the coming of ATs, and the overall speed at which fighters kill, support seems almost unneeded as well, even less so the support of a lowly FT.

Speaking as a Newman FT, there just doesn't seem to be any place for us anymore. If you need damage, get a fighter. SEs? Get a gunner. Support TECHNICs? AT. A combination? Take your pick from PT, GT, WT, AT, FI, and AF. Newmans are the race worst off now IMO. Even their specialty, attack TECHNICs are out damaged on melee resistant monsters by melee damage. The battle type balance is so out of whack now, and it trickles down and throws off racial balance due to how stats are distributed and how certain races are geared towards certain types. It just feels like the carpet has been pulled out from under techers in general, and by statistical association, Newmans.

Even gameplay mechanics are throwing off racial balance. Timed/counter attacks for example pretty much magnify the ATP difference between races by 1.5 when dealing with melee classes only. Since Beasts are normally fighters, it's almost like a Beast only bonus. Not many choose Newman for their fighters, so Newmans see the least use from it on top of being the least effective with it. Even when comparing SUVs and Nanoblasts, only Beasts have a racial ability that benefits from these free criticals.

Anyway, I'll end my self loathing rambling there, it's late and I'm tired. I'm sure I'm making little sense as it is XD

[Aviendha]

On 2007-12-27 22:37, Sychosis wrote:

On 2007-12-27 21:40, Pillan wrote:
However, that brings us to the point of why are you playing human/Newman?

Even their specialty, attack TECHNICs are out damaged on melee resistant monsters by melee damage. The battle type balance is so out of whack now, and it trickles down and throws off racial balance due to how stats are distributed and how certain races are geared towards certain types. It just feels like the carpet has been pulled out from under techers in general, and by statistical association, Newmans.

Even gameplay mechanics are throwing off racial balance. Timed/counter attacks for example pretty much magnify the ATP difference between races by 1.5 when dealing with melee classes only. Since Beasts are normally fighters, it's almost like a Beast only bonus. Not many choose Newman for their fighters, so Newmans see the least use from it on top of being the least effective with it. Even when comparing SUVs and Nanoblasts, only Beasts have a racial ability that benefits from these free criticals.

Anyway, I'll end my self loathing rambling there, it's late and I'm tired. I'm sure I'm making little sense as it is XD


BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW...jk

Seriously though, the rod boost still doesn't put you past melee damage on Polys and the like? 0.0;

If enemies had some more freaking HP, at least half of the gameplay problems would be solved.

[rytoca]

Well this whole debate about what race is better in what ways seems to have pulled a tad away from the initial topic. Still I found most of what was stated informative.

My Idea would be assigning either a TECH mag or R mag (Madoog, Shadoog) to your Human/Newman at Lumilass. They would power up like Nanoblasts or SUV, and would do the following.

TECH-mag

Cast Full Buffs/Heal/Revive Entire Party Depending on attached TECH-mag; lvl 11 Buffs for C, 21 for B, 31 for A, 41 for S. This would help the whole party.
OR
Increase Tech casting speed (stackable) and power depending on TECH-mag; 20% for C, 35% for B, 50% for A, and 75% for S for a certain amount of time. This would benefit all TECHing classes.

R-mag

Multiple hits with increased power, like an SUV, but based on the element of the R-mag. Range would be smaller then SUV. Damage determined by R-mag rank. Like SUV weapons speeds up killing.
OR
Increased speed in melee and ranged attacks (Stackable) I like the whole Idea of increased speed.

Thats what I think of when adding special attacks.

[Akaimizu]

For me, I also felt the aspect of humans and newmans getting a little short-changed, but a lot of that is changing for the expansion. Now we have more classes that take advantage of the things Newmans do best and things Humans do better than Beast and Casts with. Also, there are more classes that take major advantage of those who are adequate at a wide range of stats.

I practically thank Sega everyday for the Acro- guys. Acrotecher is also very nice for Humans trying to maximize their potential. And while oddly enough, the Acros almost seem like an idea ripped right from the Nbareh Six Square Circus, it just seems funny how coincidentally, they do well for humans. It's also because human acrotechers become literal monsters if they share their melee+shadoog potential with their attack tech potential. When Melee fails, you still have insane attack tech power that just plain kills. It's even worse when you have an attack tech wand with a Shadoog (Gun Mag). It's because every attack round you make, makes use of your Attack Power and Tech Power. Putting them both together in every attack is just...well....(smile).

However, unlike certain Newmans, I actually feel quite like humans are justified because they have a class to excel at. Something in which other types can't simply come around and quote overall superiority over. To me, that makes up for the lack of a special more than what used to feel like you're 3rd best at every job in the game.

Still, this is getting a bit off topic. This was just a fun discussion about "what if" the humans and newmans got a special, and what would it be. I just mentioned I had to chuckle at the Human summoning tank idea because of the devout "Metal Slug" reference, it would imply. If you've played the series (Have a Wii with the entire series) or played Neo Geo Battle Colleseum, you might've seen such wackiness. Metal Slug might be violent, but it sure is funny, too.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-12-28 08:29 ]</font>

[Sychosis]

On 2007-12-27 22:52, Aviendha wrote:
Seriously though, the rod boost still doesn't put you past melee damage on Polys and the like? 0.0;


Heh, not even close XD

Even using a Psycho Wand is sad compared to any decent A rank spear + Majarra.

I don't think ST honestly has any plans for difficulty balance, save a difficulty decrease :/

The next rare item cut off is at 150+ I think? Save some kinda of S3 variant, I can't see 180+ monsters posing any kind of threat to level 200 fighters.

Anyway I know people are going to disagree, but in order to find some real balance between the races, ST needs to go back and overhaul or at least tweak the fighting system, individual PAs, and battle types. As it stands, there is little value in the areas Humans and Newmans specialize. HP > MST and ATP > TP by such large ratios that a WT stopping to use an attack TECHNIC even as a Newman is silly when you can crush it with Majarra/Gravity Break/Cross Hurricane/etc. in a fraction of the time.

Make that TP sacrifice something that makes a player think "Damn, do I really want to give that up?" instead of "lolTP. lolNewman."

I know people will also disagree with this, but I have hope that Master types are going to balance out the battle type front at least. One class where Beasts rule, one class where CASTs rule, one class where Newmans rule, and one class where Humans rule (eventually :/) can be a bit restrictive but you have to admit it's a lot more balanced than the current set of battle types we have, race wise anyway.

Just don't give Acromaster the highest support cap ST, please? I don't want to have to relive the heartache, my poor little Newman can't take it D:

>_> I'm not going off on too much of a tangent, am I? XD

[JAFO22000]

Wow, FT's are still whining. Unbelievable....

You know, I pretty much kept quiet during the whole "FT Pity-fest '07" because I've always felt as a FT that I've done some right good damage. I'm versitile enough to cause some decent damage by one hitting creatures and I cannot be matched in my ability to damage multiple creatures.

Bringing up Dus Majarra as a comparison to FT damage is tired and spurious. Dus Majarra can only hit one, possibly two (if they are close enough together) enemies. FT's can damage wide spread groups of enemies using Ra-, Dam- or Gi- techs. You may not be getting the one hit power of a FF, but the ability to spread your damage out is unmatchable. Got 6 Olgohmon standing abreast? Take awhile to get them all with Dus Majarra, but Damfoie (31+) will do 1000+(low estimate) to EACH one per tick....and you get 10 ticks! That's (1000*6)*10 or 60,000 in 10 seconds.

That's just one example. Let's not get into the versatility of rods (being able to use ra-techs as the creatures are approaching, then switching to dam- techs as they are in front of you, then to gi- techs as they surround you) or the ability to apply status effects easier now....

I've never been dissapointed with FTing, and now with the new changes it's become even more powerful. I'm saying this without even having a Psycho Wand yet, AND I just got a Har/Quick a few weeks ago! I guess some people will never be satisfied until FT can do everything the best: Top damage, top support, et al....

[chu-chu-chu]

It's pointless. Some people have such narrow conceptions of how to play this game that, unless the way in which they play can produce the highest numbers, they think that the game is somehow unfair.

To them any advantage they have over another race/class combo is meaningless, yet any disadvantage they perceive that they have is, ahem, "made of fail".

I play a human protranser with my alt, and his damage isn't the best, his acc isn't the best, but I have fun. Having fun needn't be determined by some self-constructed damage-off.

[ErtaiClou]

Since this is a "what if" scenario...

Humans and newmans should have a "payday" nanoblast where it takes a god-forsaken amount of time to charge, like the entire length of the second AMF mission on S. But once actived, random casino coins drop from the sky and disappear unless the party picks them up. Then the other party players will be like ZOMGTYSOMUCH!!!1!1 Then at last all the races will be happy again and get along. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[JAFO22000]

Yes, but as a PT you can use EX traps, thus you are better than a FT in EVERY way. Don't deny it. You know it's true. FT's should at LEAST get G traps, if not EX traps, just so they can try to keep up with you....

By the way, the above is "made of sarcastic" for those who don't have the aptitude to detect such.

[Pillan]

On 2007-12-28 08:23, Sychosis wrote:
I know people will also disagree with this, but I have hope that Master types are going to balance out the battle type front at least. One class where Beasts rule, one class where CASTs rule, one class where Newmans rule, and one class where Humans rule (eventually :/) can be a bit restrictive but you have to admit it's a lot more balanced than the current set of battle types we have, race wise anyway.


Don't we already have that with the Fortes and the Acros? I mean, even if they add the master classes as a level above the expert classes, Fighmaster will still outdamage the other 3 because it's the closest to a pure hunter and then Beasts will get a bonus in it.

It really won't solve the real problem, which all goes back to Fortetecher, the class with a good deal of close and far range damage, SE, and support, not being able to keep up with Fortefighter in an attempt to balance all of those abilities.

If you really want a -techer class that rivals Fortefighter in terms of damage, you should hope that Masterforce is at the same level as the current expert classes and acts as a high damage/low support tech variation. We all know if it's at another level, it will be as bland and neutral as the basic class, force.


But, back on the topic, anyone got any more ideas on special abilities and will they add some way to balance them?

I did like the idea of humans getting a right-hand MAG, perhaps as an extra slot, like an SUV, that can be used with 2 hand weapons to boost their damage with those. Of course that would come with the removal of the human partial class bonuses and a reduction of the Acro-class bonuses to the standard 3%.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-12-28 10:07 ]</font>

[Feign]

k I'll "What if" even though I don't think Humans/Newmans need a special

Newmans: Big tech attack. I despise the way SUVs are set up to eat your Extra Slot (Which, sadly, makes sense, since they're CASTs), so make it a tattoo or something similar to Beasts, where you can pick at the customization shop (Tattoos are hot anyways. YOU KNOW YOU WANT ONE)

Huumahns: ...this could be harder than originally anticipated...

[chu-chu-chu]

Humans have a special ability: not having to have stupid ears. Better looking FTW!!!

"_"



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chu-chu-chu on 2007-12-28 09:31 ]</font>

[Akaimizu]

Like I said, the only way to give humans an edge is a class that shares equal impact on strength and magic. However, the expansion introduced them. However, it does require you to maximize the class potential by freely using both sides of the coin, and/or combining them using the new shoulder bots.

I think that puts humans in Newman territory, actually. That's something I'm quite satisfied with, even if it isn't exactly as strong as the Newman FT advantage, alone. It's something that works kind of for maybe a couple of classes. Still, balancing your potential does make you make decisions (on mixed classes) as to which weapons you concentrate on. Just that for humans, it's a bit complicated as you strive for a much of an even mix as possible.

It's work, but it's *worth it* work. Does it equal the Beast or Cast specials? Can't really say, but at least you can see some great use of potential during the regular level run outside of that. You aren't forced to be mediocre (all the time) as every class plus not have a special. For the first time, in a while, I actually felt powerful as a human. At least Newmans had something to feel that way, since the beginning, so getting a taste of what they got is so incredibly satisfying.

The bad thing is, that I generally work in a support mind-set. Trying to keep the mantra that individual power is less important than the powers that make everybody kick butt, and not just you. The Acro- stuff added that *powergame* feel that I've never felt before. Not exactly excited about what that does to me, mentally. It's probably one of the things that keep me going back to GT as a way to keep a level head.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-12-28 09:48 ]</font>

[AmyPsycho]

Ooo. Personally, I think a Newman nanoblast should be an alternate version of the Beast one. They'd glow and get runes of light put on their bodies and float about a foot off the ground with unlimited TP and a super fast cast rate for a short period of time.

[AmyPsycho]

Oooh. Or the above... a huuuge tech attack version, like an ultimate ice/fire/light/dark/earth/lightning spell. That would be fun.


I also disagree with people complaining about fortetechers. Honestly, especially since that wonderful bonus damage update, I do as a fortetecher unbelievable amounts of damage with a rod and DAM spells. I can wipe out a whole group of enemies in a single concentrated blast. The amount of enemies a FT can hit are amazing. I think some people just don't know how to properly balance spells on a rod or dont know what to equip. It takes a bit of careful planning to assure your damage does well. I'm personally a Rod-based damage tech caster with a grinded and focused rod based for each and every element, with another one based on support if needed. I find what element i need for a mission, set up my pallette accordingly, and switch weapon elements the second the enemies do. I do amazing damage and I'm more than happy http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif People tend to judge classes on their faults too quickly, or not utilize the quality of the class they currently use. Hunters are still a tiny bit overpowered tho http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

But yea. A nifty floating-around session with reeeally fast casting rates or just an uuberspell of an element of our choice. That's a Nanoblast I'd say would be fair for a Newman http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Akaimizu]

Well considering that I've never seen, in my entire life of playing this game, damage like the fTs and FFs do. Outside of my attempts to land a strong SE on big HP mobs, I don't really see what either ever have to complain about. They do their job, in comparison, exactly as I need them to.

[Sychosis]

On 2007-12-28 09:26, Pillan wrote:

On 2007-12-28 08:23, Sychosis wrote:
I know people will also disagree with this, but I have hope that Master types are going to balance out the battle type front at least. One class where Beasts rule, one class where CASTs rule, one class where Newmans rule, and one class where Humans rule (eventually :/) can be a bit restrictive but you have to admit it's a lot more balanced than the current set of battle types we have, race wise anyway.


Don't we already have that with the Fortes and the Acros? I mean, even if they add the master classes as a level above the expert classes, Fighmaster will still outdamage the other 3 because it's the closest to a pure hunter and then Beasts will get a bonus in it.

It really won't solve the real problem, which all goes back to Fortetecher, the class with a good deal of close and far range damage, SE, and support, not being able to keep up with Fortefighter in an attempt to balance all of those abilities.


But, back on the topic, anyone got any more ideas on special abilities and will they add some way to balance them?

I did like the idea of humans getting a right-hand MAG, perhaps as an extra slot, like an SUV, that can be used with 2 hand weapons to boost their damage with those. Of course that would come with the removal of the human partial class bonuses and a reduction of the Acro-class bonuses to the standard 3%.



I think there are too many types that overlap too much right now. AF, FI, and PT are all melee/gunner hybrids. Sure they have some subtle differences but they are all "Gun from a distance, then melee when enemies close in" fighting styles. Even the fortes needed some hybridization in the expansion to keep up with the hybrids. FF got higher bullet levels and a ranged melee weapon, FG got higher skill levels, and FT got higher skill levels (though not enough for a new tier of attacks XD).

Once ST gets the types back to their core fighting styles, from there it's simply a matter of making each fighting style able to make a decent contribution to a party. FM deals very high damage with low SE inflicting capabilities, GM deals moderate damage with high SE inflicting capabilities, and MF deals moderate damage with moderate SE inflicting capabilities with high level support. I hope then that AM has moderately-high damage, moderate SE inflicting capabilities, and moderate support.

THEN we can have the races fall in line with what the stats suggest they do. Beasts deal damage, CASTs inflict SEs, Newmans take care of support then back up damage, and Humans do it all at once, but to a lesser degree. Of course you wouldn't HAVE to adhere to the race-type matchups if you don't want to.

Aaaaaanyway XD

If Newmans got a Nano/SUV like ability, I can't see why it would be anything but a massive TECHNIC. I mean, Beasts Nanoblast and do the melee thing, CASTs call down the BFGs and do the shooting thing (lets not mention those melee/support SUVs >_>), Newmans doing the OMGWTF magic thing seems like the logical choice. Though I know it is a great affront to purists who want their Numans to have a melee power, it just wouldn't make sense to have a "berserker" mode for them or anything like that given what they represent now. As for a draw back, an MST and TP reduction to 0 for some period of time (20-30 seconds or so) seems fitting. It would represent some sort of spiritual drain from unleashing the attack. And while FTs would deal the most damage with it, the fact that the more techer oriented you are, the more you rely on TP and MST for damage, healing, and protection the more they would suffer from it afterwards. The fighter won't deal much damage, but he won't have to worry so much about the TP and MST penalties.

As for Humans, I honestly can't think of anything that would fit them as far as supernatural abilities go. I feel they should get a boost to ALL battle types, not just hybrids. In addition to that, to further represent their versatility, an extra 6 or 8 PA slots for them would be nice. Humans are just so bland :/

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I think the ones who would get pissed about Newmans getting summons are the old school fans who want Newmans to be more like Mithras instead of Tarutarus (that's just about the only way I can think about it). Maybe if, sometime in the future, they make a successor to PSU like PSU is to PSO, they can make a 5th race based on the Dezolians from the old PS games, and make [or return] the Newmans into the Mithras-style race which have high ATA and EVP, higher TP than Humans, but less ATP, and the new version of the Dezolians would be the Force race, then you have Humans in the middle of everything and your Beasts and CASTs.

[Sinue_v2]

Or they can split Casts off into trappers and make Dezolians into heavy gunners like that thick-jawed son of a bitch from Counter Strike 2.

And PSU isn't a successor to PSO. It's a successor to both. Most of the heavy references (like the PSO areas) are there because Sonic Team is lazy and Sega is cheap. Takes less effort to rework old areas from a game that's just a few years old than it does to create entirely new areas inspired by 2D Pixels. What's easy and cheap to carry over from the classics is their storyline - hence the HEAVY story-mining of the old series.

[chu-chu-chu]

On 2007-12-28 10:12, Sychosis wrote:
I think there are too many types that overlap too much right now. AF, FI, and PT are all melee/gunner hybrids. Sure they have some subtle differences but they are all "Gun from a distance, then melee when enemies close in" fighting styles.
Yeah, merely subtle differences.

You must be a joy to play with considering how you have foolish conceptions of how everyone should play every race and class.

The fortetecher I run with deals tons of damage and, like all classes, has weaknesses. Don't blame the game for what I have to imagine is your own poor playstyle and attitudes.

[Sychosis]

On 2007-12-28 11:30, chu-chu-chu wrote:

On 2007-12-28 10:12, Sychosis wrote:
I think there are too many types that overlap too much right now. AF, FI, and PT are all melee/gunner hybrids. Sure they have some subtle differences but they are all "Gun from a distance, then melee when enemies close in" fighting styles.
Yeah, merely subtle differences.

You must be a joy to play with considering how you have foolish conceptions of how everyone should play every race and class.

The fortetecher I run with deals tons of damage and, like all classes, has weaknesses. Don't blame the game for what I have to imagine is your own poor playstyle and attitudes.



I imagine I'm a damn sight more pleasant to party with than someone going off and attacking someone over a difference of opinion.

[chu-chu-chu]

Hmmmmm...magic eight ball says, "chu-chu-chu's friends help hunt for stuff".

At any rate, what's tiresome about your act is your arrogant and incessant complaints concerning things about which you have horrible misconceptions and a closed mind. When you post stuff like the snowfox parody, i give you your lulzZ. That was great. But when you post nonsense after nonsense in gameplay threads - to usually round disagreement from others - perhaps you should maybe reconsider how you approach styles of play instead of lamenting that Sega didn't cater the game to how you want it to be.

This of course is something that applies to a good deal of gameplay complaints, not just your own.

But, man, if you think fighgunners, acrofighters and protransers merely have subtle differences, you have a lot to learn.

[Gen2000]

If Humans could use unique Photon Arts with weapons that cost like 25% of the special bar or something I would use them more or value them better over Beast/Cast. i.e. they could use a a mini AoE size attack that doesn't cause a lot of damage but still enough to worthy of calling a special. I dunno.

The whole enhance newman speed thing is a nice idea too. It could also be triggered on and off from the special bar. Basically those two classes needs to make some use of the special bar. Cast/Beast only getting specials was a silly idea from beginning and if anyone to this day still think Crea weapons makes up for that you're a fool.

[Sychosis]

On 2007-12-28 11:54, chu-chu-chu wrote:
Hmmmmm...magic eight ball says, "chu-chu-chu's friends help hunt for stuff".

At any rate, what's tiresome about your act is your arrogant and incessant complaints concerning things about which you have horrible misconceptions and a closed mind. When you post stuff like the snowfox parody, i give you your lulzZ. That was great. But when you post nonsense after nonsense in gameplay threads - to usually round disagreement from others - perhaps you should maybe reconsider how you approach styles of play instead of lamenting that Sega didn't cater the game to how you want it to be.

This of course is something that applies to a good deal of gameplay complaints, not just your own.

But, man, if you think fighgunners, acrofighters and protransers merely have subtle differences, you have a lot to learn.



Then please, by all means explain. I'm all eyes.

Pillan and I, despite having a difference in opinion about the balance of power have been able to exchange opinions without resorting to "lol u can't play rofls." We've been able to keep things civil. What's with the hostility?

If you happen to play on 360, I gladly invite you to play with me for a while and let me show you I'm FAR from a poor Fortetecher.

[-Tidus_415-]

Heres a good idea...

Only Humans and Newmans can switch to one of the master classes that are going to be released.

That would really piss off every beast and cast. Us Humans and Newmans can just LOL in their face.

[XCOPY]

cheh, I don't care if it's completely unoriginal. Summons would make Newmans significantly more fun and interesting to play, at least to me. I also like the idea of a super "team barrier" with various effects(*perfectly resistent to one type of element, or physical attacks, or constant regenerative effects for all players inside the barrier, etc.) I'd have more fun with Summons though...I always enjoy that when it's done well in a game. The only problem here has already been mentioned countless times....the fact that this summoned creature would take up a spot on the team, so a full party would mean the Newman can't use it unless they found a way around this, like having the Newman player disappear or fade out out the scene while the summon becomes controlled by the player...(*eh, but then that becomes like another type of Beast Nanoblast, at least in terms of gameplay mechanics...still, it's one possible workaround that came to mind for using a summoned creature without taking up extra "character space")

I think the most potentially interesting thing for the human would be that extra "super art"/jutsu/whatever that is exclusive to the human race......a fighting technique only they can pull off due to the nature of their soul or physiology, whatever...there's probably a dozen ways you could explain it in terms of story with just a few minutes of brainstorming. I'd also have it where they establish a soul/essence/life force/etc. connection to certain weapons(*I'm thinking along the lines of how the characters in Bleach apparently have a special soul connection to their "zanpakuto", which is the basic explanation for them making the weapon transform and performing all kinds of insane special attacks), which unlocks the ability. This would finally get me to care about the very existence of human characters in this game.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: XCOPY on 2007-12-28 21:38 ]</font>