PS story/spoiler speculation thread.

[GoldRidley]

Note: A lot of the information I put forth in this thread can be verified by Phantasy Star's wikipedia (not psupedia) entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantasy_Star_series

Sinue V2 got me started on this in the Max Attack G Screenshot thread with a stray post:


Beta 772 did come after Flowen's infection. Originally Osto and his team were working on artificially evolving Computer AI's, hence the Mother Project. After Flowen's infection, and the discovery of D-Cells, Osto turned his work to Bio-weaponry and artificially evolving organic life forms. I doubt that Osto was working on creating a new Dark Falz, since he wasn't even sure what Dark Falz was. He was just interested in the mutagenic properties of D-Cells. Eventually he turned to fusing the Olga AI core into the Infected Flowen as a control measure for the creature Flowen was turning into - as well as seeing whether or not the D-Cells could affect the evolution of the computer AI when merged with an organic host. The experiment failed, however, and Flowen was dumped down the trash chute.

Though I suppose it could be argued that Dark Falz was influencing Osto like he did Ult - or like he did in other PS games. But I don't see why he'd want Osto to create a clone of himself. Olga wasn't subservent to Dark Falz, and indeed, the two ended up clashing and destroying each other - creating Endu and the Great Shadow as a byproduct.
Now the questions that have got me hanging are these:
How the hell does all of that tie into what we're seeing in PSU? It looks like Falz' handiwork - and if the Phantasy Star series is any indication, you're going to have to deal with him once every thousand years regardless of how thoroughly you clean him up, as Dark Falz is the physical manifestation of the Profound Darkness sealed away in the Algol/Gurhal star system, by its original rival and enemy, "The Great Light". The great light apparently used the planets themselves as the sealing anchors. This is what PSU's box art/title seems to represent, actually - the magical nature of the planets can also be seen in the fight with Dulk Fakis' second form. If I had to venture a guess, it's that time of the millinium once again in the Gurhal/Algol star system. Are the A-photon wielding ancients referenced in PSU the agents of the great light, and the agency that sealed the profound darkness into the Algol/Gurhal system?

Further evidence for the time drawing near is the reappearance of Rykros/Ryucross.
Info on Ryucross ganked from wikipedia:

Ryucross is a planet on an extremely elongated orbit, such that it only approaches the other planets once every 1000 years. Ryucross may only be seen by looking through the Aeroprism; a valuable crystal through which objects can be seen that are normally hidden to the naked eye. As such, its exact location is unknown to any living being. The planet's abnormal orbit was designed by the Great Light so that when the seal on the Profound Darkness weakens, Ryucross comes to warn the Protectors of the danger.

Ryucross' guardian is "Le Roof", an incredibly advanced informational entity left by the Great Light to give the Protectors their mission. As the inheritor of part of the Great Light's being, Le Roof is the last creature to hold the secrets to the ultimate purpose and fate of the Algol system.
And it's now a SEED HIVE?! When and how did that happen?
Something big is going down there, although the crappy mission isn't much of an indicator. Contrary to what Episode III suggested, I doubt we've seen the last of Falz. His imprisonment was probably to put a hold on the millenial cycle, and now that he got toasted the cycle must have resumed. How will it be stopped without the great light's presence, or at the very least, blessing? Where and what is the Great Light? I think those stinking Newman know.

Whew! Okay, I'm done. But feel free to take it up with me, if you have any other ideas.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dhylec on 2008-01-01 14:18 ]</font>

[Mysterious-G]

NOT CONNECTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 >_>

[Sinue_v2]

Honestly, I'd say they're not connected. However, if they chose to connect the various series it might resemble something like this. Ok, the 1,000 year rule no longer applies. At the end of PSIV the Profound Darkness was destroyed and it rendered the seal meaningless. The fact that PSO takes place roughly 800 years after PS (if you assume AUW and AW calendars are the same and originate from the same time period) doesn't really mean anything except a continuing tradition.

The idea is that basically the Profound Darkness and Dark Falz are the same being, one being just an extension/manfestation of the other. The Dark Force/Falz aboard the Alisa III was only defeated - not destroyed. The Alisa III does not travel back in time to arrive on Earth, but instead lands on an unknown planet which has striking similarities to Ragol. (Crys's ending, I think, but Adan's could also work for both Future Earth or Ragol since it's ambiguous with the # of moons) The inhabitants of the Alisa III exit, seal the craft, but eventually all die for (pick a reason). The Dark Force/Falz aboard, is not destoryed like previous incarnations because it is the only remaining vestage of the Profound Darkness left. It's body is destroyed, but not it's conciousness. PSO makes clear reference to the fact that the darkness will always reincarnate so long as the light exists - because the two are a pair. Hence, Dark Falz's escape from the Ruins of the Alisa III in PSO to gobble up Pioneer 1 and draw Rico ever closer to him so that he can possess her body and use it as a copporeal focus - an anchor in the world - in which it can build itself back into the new Profound Darkness. Yada yada, Ep II & IV, and finally the end of Episode III where it's revealed in one of the many endings that the Great Shadow is a byproduct of Olga and Falz's clash. The Great Shadow may very well just be another broken down form of the Darkness. How THAT ties into PSU, possibly through the SEED, is yet to be seen. PSU's storyline is still ongoing.

PSU thus far has provided a very important hint that I'm probably making WAY too big an issue of. That being that Photons exist as a spiritual and natural property of the universe. These Photons also carry with them a "memory" of past events - allowing for those exceptionally in tune with the Photons to read divinations from them. However I suppose they might also work on a more subconcious level and civilizations all over the Universe (Algol, Coral, Gurhal) have aligned themsevles similarly due to the presence of this shared photonic memory. Hence events in the past seem to repeat themselves. Numans being present in every PS solar system, for example.

And it may end up fulfilling the musings of the original PS staff in the Phantasy Star Compendium whereas at some point in the future - probably in a totally different game series (to keep the symmetry - 4 games per series, 4 series for the franchise) we will have to go on some wild adventure spanning all the known solar systems in an attempt to kill the Great Light/Photons so that the Darkness can finally be destoryed once and for all.

Of course, this is just the half-drunken early morning/late afternoon ramblings off the top of my head and not to be taken in any way seriously.

[Golto]

When will people finally accept that ST is lazy and likes to re-use a lot of names of things?

[ChaosAngel92]

I still want to think there is a connection. PSU will totally rock the history if in the end all the games are connected. I still dont understand why people get so upset when someone start speculing about a relation beetwen all the PS series.

[GoldRidley]

Howdy, Sinue. I figured you'd show up, so I didn't bother carrying this on in the Max Attack G thread.

Now we're getting to the fun part - degenerating into pseudo-philosophical hocus-pocus on the nature of light and dark. I'm not going to challenge the end of PS4, for some very obvious reasons, but I will say this - if the Profound Darkness is no more, from where did Dark Falz' derive its power in the PSO series?

As for the relationship between photons and the great light, I agree with you there. At any rate, it would make for an interesting story arc. It's pretty obvious that the Communion of Light knows something about the whole ordeal, as they're presented as aloof, silent and plotting in regards to PSU's present crisis. I definitely suspect we'll be seeing more of that, particularly concerning the ancient's conflict with the seed.

All right, I'm going to make a terrible confession - I'm in touch with the fact that they're making it up as they go along, and that the plots are only loosely related.

The natural storyteller in me wants them to whip a nice surprise ending that puts everything into perfect focus while blowing my mind in the process. I'm not counting on it, but yeah, it would be nice. The art direction in the PS series really makes the wacky story come alive for me, hence my interest.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: GoldRidley on 2007-12-28 22:31 ]</font>

[AnamanaAU]

On the Sega Genesis Collection, there's an interview with a PSU developer. He mentions PSU having a lot of ties back to the PS games of old and says that "Lutz" is in PSU. I can only think of Lutz being Rutsu, because Neudaiz = Dezo and Rutsu almost sounds like Lutz. Ie; CoG could possibly be a throwback to the Esper Mansion on Dezo.


The character Izuma Rutsu from Phantasy Star Universe is a direct reference to Lutz from Phantasy Star. Lutz is often romanized from the original Japanese as "Rutsu". Also, as Noah redefined the role of, and leads the Espers in their current form - Izuma similarly created and is headmaster of the Masters of the Planetary Spirit in the Communion of Gurhal.

Thoughts?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JubeiSaotome on 2007-12-30 02:26 ]</font>

[Krisan]

On 2007-12-28 14:20, Golto wrote:
When will people finally accept that ST is lazy and likes to re-use a lot of names of things?

Don't assume laziness is always at fault.. As a writer, I tend to enjoy reusing old characters and names in new works quite frequently.. It has more to do with paying homage to old (but not forgotten) ideas and placing a spin on characters and places that couldn't have otherwise been done in the past stories.

As for the PS series having any connections.. Well, I'm of the opinion that they -are- all linked together somehow, but not in any conventional sense.. Something more along the lines of parallel universesdimensions, with the Profound Darkness (and mayhap, the Great Light) transcending these barriers and retaining all knowledge of what occurs in the other universes around them. This would also account for why certain things like Gurhal resemble Algol, because mirrored dimensionsuniverses should show some similar structure to one another.. if only a vague one.

[Angelo]

I believe Ryucross is Ragol

Why? I'll explain.

Phantasy Star

Ryucross in the Phantasy Star series is a planet that has such a wide orbit that it rarely comes into view of the other three planets.

First, what is the purpose of Ryucross?

"A fourth planet, Ryucross was also created to serve as a warning star to alert the Guardians of the time when the seal (sealing Dark Falz) would be it's weakest."

So this planet comes into orbit when Falz's seal is weak.

Phantasy Star Online

Ragol was a planet discovered on it's own and named by the scientists onboard the Pioneer 1. Now, why does all the symbolism and imagery in PSO revolve around three planets (The Seal, containing the words Mutt Ditts Poumn, the three planets around the logo, the three pillars to unlock Ruins) when there is only one planet in the entire game!

Ragol couldn't be one of the three planets, they would ruin alot've the symbolism and it would make no sense. There are items on the planet Ragol such as Heart of Poumn (Parum) and Prophets of Motav (Moatoob), how did they get there if Ragol was a planet all on it's own?


So far we've established:

-Ghural is a reflection of Algol, Algol has a 4th planet named Ryucross
-Ragol is not a lone planet, it clearly has influence of three other planets everywhere in it


Phantasy Star Universe

The game goes back to the story of the three planets. It seems like things are repeating itself, doesn't it?

Planets like Parum, Nuedaiz (originally New Deiz (Dezolis)), and Moatoob are major pieces here.


The solar system is going to hell; SEED attacking, the Illuminus, the Guardians at an all-time low. Wouldn't it be nice to have some type of warning?


Oh look! Here comes Ryucross to alert the Guardians! Only something is terribly wrong.

Ryucross has become so infected it's become a planet-sized HIVE. Now, why would SEGA use the term 'planet-sized' and not just 'Large satellite' or something like that?

Because Ryucross was once a planet. But we need proof... something that proves it was once a lush, beautiful planet. If only there were some type of link to it's past...

Oh, how convenient!! VR simulators on the now-infected Ryucross! Let's take a look and see what this planet once was.

Well, looks like it's a carbon copy of Ragol!!

Ryucross, the planet that was supposed to warn the Ghural system of danger has now become the threat. How could such a thing happen?

Maybe the morons on the Pioneer 1 should've just left it alone.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Angelo on 2007-12-30 04:12 ]</font>

[GoldRidley]

Angelo, you've made my friggin' day.

We're left with one loose end - Coral.

[GoldRidley]

Angelo, you've made my friggin' day, man. You put forth a damned interesting argument, and it may prove true.

That leaves us with one thing left unaccounted for - Coral.

[JAFO22000]

tn:dr

(too nerdy: didn't read)

[Pengfishh]

I read it and am sad. :c :c :c

[Kerry157]

HELLO, RYUCROSS IS IN ALGO, NOT GURHAL

[Chaosgyro]

On 2007-12-31 15:16, Kerry157 wrote:
HELLO, RYUCROSS IS IN ALGO, NOT GURHAL



I read (in that nebulous "somewhere") that Parum is an entirely artificial planet, and as such *could* be Palm rebuilt. The ancients who built the Svaltus could conceivably be the distant descendants of people from PS4. Likewise, the Coralians could be descendants of the people from PS3.

The scientists who engineered the newmans, beasts, and CAST had to get their ideas from somewhere right? Maybe they found partial records of Nei and/or Rika, Motavians, and WREN/Demi in some deep, dark RELICS.

[Krisan]

On 2007-12-30 04:10, Angelo wrote:
I believe Ryucross is Ragol

Don't buy it. The PSO items themselves are all described as having come from a dimensional rift in RELIC's sites.. that supports my arguement about Algol, Ragol, and Gurhal all being separate dimenions universes parallel to one another, and Dark ForceFalz and the Great Light being capable of somehow transcending between them. It is also possible that Ryucross itself (due to the influence Dark Force has there) has a very weak dimensional field.. meaning, things from other times, places, and universes could have fallen to the planet.. (Hence the VR stuff, all the items, etc..) Hell the planet itself could have shifted out of Algol and into Gurhal somehow, but that's less believable in my opinion..

It doesn't make sense to try and connect the GUARDIANS to PSO, because the PSO clothing is listed as old-style GUARDIANS uniforms, and if that meant that the GUARDIANS are -at all- related to PSO, they'd almost certainly have had to have knownbeen involved with Pioneer II, and there is no indication of them being aware of that at all. (I mean hell, if they had known about Pioneer II - and they should still have some record of it today if they did, the SEED would have set off so many alarms.. but as it stands, they haven't a clue what the SEED even are.)

Again, if they're connected -at all- to each other, it is through Dark Force and the Great Light itself, not in any literal sense. The events of the original series, PSO, and PSU all take place in separate universes.. It IS possible the boundaries of space could split open and allow the three to intersect, especially if the dimensional fields are weakening enough to let items and artifacts slip through like what seems to be happening.. but for now, they have no way of accessing one another directly.


Edit:
And I'm not understanding why more people aren't seeing my point of view and accepting it as at least a possibility, rather than trying to connect the dots in places that have no dots. Most of these theories are based on a lot of assumptions, but mine is mostly going by what we do know as fact.. and usually the simplest answer is the correct one. (As a writer myself, I wouldn't try butchering three separate stories in an attempt to connect them when I could just explain it off as simply as them existing in parallel dimensions.)

Besides, at least with what I am saying it means they ARE connected, just not in the way a lot of people may have wanted. (But that's irrelevant, since this way also hold an awful lot of potential for how future PS games could unfold when you just take the time to really think about it..)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Krisan on 2007-12-31 15:48 ]</font>

[CrimsomWolf]

SEGA, never openly confirmed that ALL of the series take place in same- time contiunuum (whatever it is) and probably they never will.

[terrell707]

On 2007-12-31 15:35, Krisan wrote:

On 2007-12-30 04:10, Angelo wrote:
I believe Ryucross is Ragol

Don't buy it. The PSO items themselves are all described as having come from a dimensional rift in RELIC's sites.. that supports my arguement about Algol, Ragol, and Gurhal all being separate dimenions universes parallel to one another, and Dark ForceFalz and the Great Light being capable of somehow transcending between them. It is also possible that Ryucross itself (due to the influence Dark Force has there) has a very weak dimensional field.. meaning, things from other times, places, and universes could have fallen to the planet.. (Hence the VR stuff, all the items, etc..) Hell the planet itself could have shifted out of Algol and into Gurhal somehow, but that's less believable in my opinion..

It doesn't make sense to try and connect the GUARDIANS to PSO, because the PSO clothing is listed as old-style GUARDIANS uniforms, and if that meant that the GUARDIANS are -at all- related to PSO, they'd almost certainly have had to have knownbeen involved with Pioneer II, and there is no indication of them being aware of that at all. (I mean hell, if they had known about Pioneer II - and they should still have some record of it today if they did, the SEED would have set off so many alarms.. but as it stands, they haven't a clue what the SEED even are.)

Again, if they're connected -at all- to each other, it is through Dark Force and the Great Light itself, not in any literal sense. The events of the original series, PSO, and PSU all take place in separate universes.. It IS possible the boundaries of space could split open and allow the three to intersect, especially if the dimensional fields are weakening enough to let items and artifacts slip through like what seems to be happening.. but for now, they have no way of accessing one another directly.


Edit:
And I'm not understanding why more people aren't seeing my point of view and accepting it as at least a possibility, rather than trying to connect the dots in places that have no dots. Most of these theories are based on a lot of assumptions, but mine is mostly going by what we do know as fact.. and usually the simplest answer is the correct one. (As a writer myself, I wouldn't try butchering three separate stories in an attempt to connect them when I could just explain it off as simply as them existing in parallel dimensions.)

Besides, at least with what I am saying it means they ARE connected, just not in the way a lot of people may have wanted. (But that's irrelevant, since this way also hold an awful lot of potential for how future PS games could unfold when you just take the time to really think about it..)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Krisan on 2007-12-31 15:48 ]</font>


krisan i understand the point u are trying to make, and i see it very well. i think it is pretty cool that u cam to this conclusion, becuase it kind of makes u think about what maybe the next series will hold in store for us.

[Ocin]

I'm not sure if the item descriptions can really be taken too seriously. As presented, items such as the Varista are described as coming through some kind of dimensional portal, suggesting that PSO is in an entirely alternate universe from PSU. However, if the Item Descriptions also describe PSO's clothes as old-style Guardian-Ware, then that simply makes no sense when compared to the description of the Varista, unless there are two different Universe's Sonic Team has in mind where the entirety of PSO takes place, and why even take that much into consideration at all?

[GoldRidley]

HELLO, RYUCROSS IS IN ALGO, NOT GURHAL

You're in for a surprise!

[Mysterious-G]

I think they simply share all those things because they are all Phantasy Star games. Whether it is Dark Falz, the three planets or the races. It wouldn't be a Phantasy Star if there wasn't at least one of those things. And if the story wouldn't be similiar, it wouldn't be a Phantasy Star neither. I really don`t think they are connected with each other, they are similiar and share names and events (which is, at least I think so, fan service), but that's it (for me).
That's the same with the weapons like heart of poumn and all those, it's just there because it is a Phantasy Star game. *shrugs*

[DarkNoise]

I'm gonna admit here that there are parts that are really long shots, and some (such as Angelo) who have made very good sense.

Now I agree that the PSO weapons in PSU are listed as coming from a dimensional rift, but a dimensional rift isn't always exactly that. Dimensional rifts can sometimes be classed as links in time as well, although many prefer to call them temporal rifts. Either way I'll hold judgment on that.

But there is one problem with Angelo's argument that bugs me and I'm surprised no ones picked up on it. Neudiez and it's Rappy's and Bomers, as well as De Rol Le on Moatoob, and finally Grass Assasins on Parum.

[Ocin]

That bugs me, too. And De Rol Le was classified as an Altered Beast, and I believe in PSOEP2, it was determined that "Altered Beast" referred to beasts created, or altered by, scientists on Pioneer 1. So if we are to assume that PSO and PSU actually take place in the same dimension, De Rol Le must have been transported to Moatoob from Ragol by either those on Pioneer 2, or if Ragol ended up being inhabited by more than just the ARKZ, then those whom inhabited Ragol. It would make more sense if it was inhabited by more than just the ARKZ, though, considering that there are VR Simulators found so many years later, assuming that Ragol = Ryucross = HIVE. And all those other monsters must have been transported as well. Though this is entirely drawing at straws, and therefore pretty much unlikely to happen by Sega's choice, perhaps, if we are still assuming Ragol = Ryucross = HIVE, that when the planet became highly populated, they transported the monsters to other planets to make their home more inhabitable. They must have seen the other 3 planets eventually, anyway. What that would leave, though, is about a minimum of 2000 Years between PSO and PSU.

I hope Sega doesn't just dump PSO's storyline. That would be so disappointing.

[Ryudo]

PSO Episode 3 is non-canon so most of this discussion is meaningless http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[GuardianElite]

On 2007-12-31 14:53, GoldRidley wrote:
Angelo, you've made my friggin' day.

We're left with one loose end - Coral.



could Coral be Copto? Copto is one light year away from Algol star system

[Pengfishh]

Throwbacks! Most of these related items, monsters, etc. are mere throwbacks to other games, much in the same way Final Fantasy has similarly named items throughout most games (Ribbon, Mage Masher, etc.).

[Deucer]

Something like this?

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s227/iDeucer/PSG/Picture10.png

[Pengfishh]

Seems like Ragol would die in the interim between its sun and Gurhal's. Need to put a black hole for it to travel back and forth between. And some stars.

[Deucer]

Ryucross seems like it wouldn't be affected by zero sunlight, I can't imagine the Seed need anything like that.
Ragol might have reached the star, and then set up as a trap, to look living.


EDIT:
Now, I can understand both of the major conclusions in this thread, but one thing both fail to explain is how BOTH Human species evolve equally, and both create CASTs and Newmen. That's really, really coincidental.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Deucer on 2008-01-01 14:00 ]</font>

[GuardianElite]

what if ryucros actually orbits both the Gurhals and Algols star system? like Gurhal=dark half and Algol is Light half

[GoldRidley]

Somebody get the game's creative directors in here so they can make a coherent story out of what we're doing here. Lawl.

[Sinue_v2]

if the Profound Darkness is no more, from where did Dark Falz' derive its power in the PSO series?

I skimmed over this point rather quickly. The idea being that Dark Falz/Force is merely a manifestation of the Profound Darkness's anger and hatred. However, it is not an independent demon created from this hatred. In a way, it is both it's own seperate being AND the physical embodiment of the Profound Darkness. They, on some level, are one and the same being.

Now, arguably, one could make the point: Why did Dark Falz/Force try to destroy the Algol System and free the Profound Darkness from the dimensional seal. Why not just escape and wreak havok as it pleased? Why did it not try to form a new Profound Darkness outside of the seal before PSO? Well, one - there's the idea of them being the same being. However, it seems the darkness hates competition. Remember, the heros of Ragol did not destroy Dark Falz. They defeated it, but could not kill it. It was Olga Flow - another evolving manifestation of the darkness which clashed with Dark Falz that finally destroyed it. This could also be explained by Rico and Flowen's souls still having a modicum of control over their new "bodies" and forced the two into conflict as told in Endu's storyline.

But back to the point - the darkness could not be killed. PSO makes that stipulation. They are a pair, and one cannot be killed while the other lives. Unless there is some other Dark Falz which escaped aboard a different world ship in PSII, or escaped into Algol in PSIV - the Alisa III Dark Falz is the only remaining vestige of the Profound Darkness. It had no body, but it's consciousness was there until meeting Rico - at which point it consumed her and used her body as a focus and corporeal anchor for it's power. It sought to "evolve", as show in various offline quests - most notably Soul of Steel. "Evolve", I assume, into it's new form as the Profound Darkness.

So in this way - the Profound Darkness was never truly destoryed at the end of PSIV. It's presence behind the Algol seal was destroyed and finally freed them of "their terrible curse of yore". Yet the darkness lived on elsewhere. Even in PSO - the destruction of Olga and Falz resulted in yet another form of the Darkness. The Great Shadow. The GERM.


I read (in that nebulous "somewhere") that Parum is an entirely artificial planet, and as such *could* be Palm rebuilt.

Most of Parum's SURFACE is artificial, but it wasn't blown completely apart into an asteroid field the way Palma was. The surface was destroyed in the 500-year war between the races. Long after the Ancients. I've also seen no indication that Gurhalians have any technology on the scale of planet building.


Copto is one light year away from Algol star system

Possibly. I tend to shy away from that idea now that PSU is in the mix, but I suppose it could still work out. You would have to assume that at some point in the future of Algol they made contact with their lost "colony". But this is a discussion in itself and probably belongs in it's own thread.


what if ryucros actually orbits both the Gurhals and Algols star system?

No, Gurhal is not close enough to Algol to make it's transit in 500 years. They are not two sides of one coin, and change topography and scentient life depending on which solar system they are in. PSU Ryucross does not look anything like PS's Ryucross. One is inhabited by beings of light, the other of darkness.

And Ragol is most definately NOT Ryucross. The only way to connect these two as the same planet requires explanations so far over the top and far fetched that even Sonic Team isn't likely to try to pull them off. It's right up there with the idea that Demi and Wren defeated a later Dark Force on Algol after PSIV, had Rune seal it aboard a ship, then space-towed it several light years off to Ragol and dumped him on an abandoned planet.

[Leahcim]

=)

This is quite enjoying to read

[HaydenX]

On 2008-01-03 19:10, Leahcim wrote:
=)

This is quite enjoying to read



I believe you mean "enjoyable."

There are many interesting ideas here...Based upon what is known of the storyline...
1. Parum could be Palma. Though the Gurhalians are not technilogically advanced enough to build a planet, I believe that the "ancients" were. Any beings capable of building such impressive structures and weapons would be capable of reforming an asteroid field as the base for a planet. It could be laced with artifice and the energy left behind from such a reformation might be enough to leave the space/time continuum fragile. Possibly, it would be fragile enough to lead to the transportation of small objects through time.

2. What is so farfetched about ryucross being ragol?
Ragol was infested with horrible beasts and even had Dark Falz on the planet. Why would the profound darkness manifest itself directly on a planet other than that which represents it best. Also, though ryucross was created by the holy light as a warning of the weakening seal, light and dark are quite intertwined as everyone already knows. since one cannot exist without the other, I don't believe it would be difficult for the profound darkness to manifest itself in the most opposite. Since they both have to exist for one to exist, it is logical to view this whole cycle as nothing more than a circle. The further apart two things are in a circle (assuming a true beginning point), the closer together they are. Would it not make sense that the more wounds the profound darkness absorbs, the weaker the holy light would be? If the holy light is also weaker, then the profound darkness might be able to manifest itself in a lighter place (such as ryucross). Factoring in the VR stuff, it isn't difficult at all to believe Ragol as Ryucross. Plus, since ryucross is a part of the Algol/Gurhal system, and ancient beings had been to Ryucross/Ragol and back, it is logical to assume that they would take some life back to study (thus explaining rappies, boomas, and delnadians/delsabers).
3. A-photons...I believe that A-photons are the manifestation of the combined forces of the Profound Darkness and the Holy Light. This is why they are so powerful. This would also explain why the SEED are so attracted to them. The SEED (which I believe to be a manifestation, whether directly, or indirectly of the Profound Darkness) are attracted to the sheer power of A-photons. I believe that A-photons are the key to a winning-out of either the Holy Light or Profound Darkness. They are the answer to the balance. I believe that if either the Holy Light or Profound Darkness amassed enough A photons, they would be capable of usurping the other without self-destruction. The only problem with this is that the Holy Light would not crave such power, however, the Profound Darkness would.

[GoldRidley]

Remember, the heros of Ragol did not destroy Dark Falz. They defeated it, but could not kill it. It was Olga Flow - another evolving manifestation of the darkness which clashed with Dark Falz that finally destroyed it. This could also be explained by Rico and Flowen's souls still having a modicum of control over their new "bodies" and forced the two into conflict as told in Endu's storyline.

This troubles me. I haven't played Episode III, having relied on other people's write-ups, script dumps, and FAQ's, which weren't always very clear on what actually happened. You've obviously played card battle - mind answering some questions for me?

First off - at what point did Flowen and Rico interrupt Dark Falz' reincarnation cycle, in terms of PSO's episodes? Pre-Episode 1? I figured it would have to be, seeing as you beat the hell out of a Falz-possessed and mutilated Rico at the end of that.

Second - who was forced into conflict by what, specifically?

BONUS: Episode 4: wtf is Saint Milion and where did that darned meteor come from???1!!~

I think I'll have to bite the bullet and track down a copy of episode 3.

[Laranas]

On 2007-12-28 13:29, Mysterious-G wrote:
NOT CONNECTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 >_>I too think that PSO and PSU's stories can not be canon after seeing what happens in the original 4 games (plus the gaidens).

[Chaosgyro]

ST is unlikely to ever come out and give definitive evidence that PS1-4 is connected to PSO is connected to PSU, but that doesn't mean we can't invent ways for it to be so. Actually, I find that this thread contains more creative thinking and inventive ideas than all the rest of PSU so far.

If I were in the shoes of ST's management I'd fire my story planners and hire Sinue, Haydenx, and GoldRidley instead.

[Sinue_v2]

Though the Gurhalians are not technilogically advanced enough to build a planet, I believe that the "ancients" were. Any beings capable of building such impressive structures and weapons would be capable of reforming an asteroid field as the base for a planet.

This still leaves a huge gaping hole in the storyline and makes a pretty daunting leap of faith in that civilization on Algol perished. First off, this is a slap in the face to fans of the classic series - I doubt Sonic Team would go to THAT length. There's also the point that when the Great Light created Motavians, Dezolians, and Humans to guard over and protect the Algol seal against the Darkness in it's absence. According to the compendium timeline, they survived for MILLIONS of years. Yet, just a few thousand years after PSIV they all perish and are replaced by the ancients? I don't buy it. Perhaps the humans are the ancients, but it still begs the question of what happened to Dezolians and Motavians? And there's been not even a hint of a connection between Humans in Gurhal being descendants of the ancients. Everything we've seen thus far points to the idea that the Ancients are a branch of the race which makes up the Great Light - and that humans may also have been placed in Gurhal to guard over and protect the Gurhalian seal. Maybe future storyline episodes will reveal more.


Why would the profound darkness manifest itself directly on a planet other than that which represents it best.

I would personally argue that Motavia best represents the Profound Darkness. That's where most of it's Dark Forces are fought on - and that's where the Rift opens. Even Falz in PSO (assuming the storylines are connected) CAME from Algol.


Since they both have to exist for one to exist, it is logical to view this whole cycle as nothing more than a circle. The further apart two things are in a circle (assuming a true beginning point), the closer together they are. Would it not make sense that the more wounds the profound darkness absorbs, the weaker the holy light would be? If the holy light is also weaker, then the profound darkness might be able to manifest itself in a lighter place (such as ryucross).

The two are not mutually one. What damage you do to one has never been shown to affect the other. Yes, in the Western Cannon - the two beings split from one. In the Japanese Cannon, they were an entire race of spiritual beings which waged a civil war. The light defeated the darkness, and sealed it away - because it could not completely destroy it. This is reminicent of the divination Karen preforms in which she see the Strateria fighting the SEED before they too are sealed. And yes, the Darkness can manifest itself on Ryucross. They infest the planet, trying to keep Chaz and party from reaching the artifacts which will ultimately destroy them.


Factoring in the VR stuff, it isn't difficult at all to believe Ragol as Ryucross.

Ragol may very well be the Ryucross from PSU. It's a hell of a strech, but one might assume that something knocked the planet out of it's orbit and sent hurtling towards Gurhal meanwhile being overtaken by the SEED. But it's not the Ryucross from the classic PS series. Ragol was a terran planet, with moons, that orbited a fixed star in a circular fashion. Ryucross was a small crystaline planet which was obscured from detection on an extremely elongated eliptical orbit. It had no native life. It had no sattelites. And further, to say that Ragol is Ryucross would run in conflict with the already well established and solid theory of it being the landing site of the Alisa III, because it not only fits the solar system's topography - but also contains worldship ruins which contain the Dark Falz entity. The Alisa III, nor any of the worldships from PS II/III ever landed on Ryucross - as the only way you could even detect the planet was by using the Aero Prism.


I believe that A-photons are the manifestation of the combined forces of the Profound Darkness and the Holy Light.

A-Photons are just normal photons which have undergone a process of co-polymerization according to sources from PSU. Anything beyond that at this point is just speculation until it's cleared up. The reason WHY the SEED are attracted to A-Photons and not just Photons is still unknown, but at this point it has at least been touched upon and reasonably should be expected to addressed later once we get more towards the crux of the storyline. So far, we've just been presented with the drivers of the storyline - not the underlaying reasons for WHY it's happening.


at what point did Flowen and Rico interrupt Dark Falz' reincarnation cycle, in terms of PSO's episodes?

It takes place shortly after Episode IV, I believe. There really isn't a "cycle" to his resurrection. It only appeared that way in the original series because after Lassic summoned the first Dark Falz and tore a "hole" in the Algolian seal, it would weaken every 1,000 years and allow a new Dark Falz/Force to escape the Rift. Dark Falz only regenerates now because he's the only existing part of the Profound Darkness, and it takes him as long as it takes him. After Algol, there is no set time period.

And nobody ever "beat" Dark Falz in PSO. You could temporarily defeat him, but not destroy him. Yes, I know Flowen refers to you as the "Savior of the Red Captive Child" - indicating that you did destroy Dark Falz. It's a loophole Sonic Team has never addressed.


who was forced into conflict by what, specifically?

Well, as said - Olga Flow and Dark Falz clashed, and it was Rico and Flowen who caused it.


wtf is Saint Milion and where did that darned meteor come from???1!!~

Actually, I haven't played very far into Episode IV. I eventually want to work up a script for it, but since the official servers are going offline I'll have to find other means of playing it.

[GoldRidley]

Aw, Chaos. I'm flattered. However, to be honest, awesome creative direction is the one thing that the guys responsible for this title truly shine at, even if they have basically been re-telling the same story since Phantasy Star began. Not everyone here *wants* the stories to be intimately related.

I personally think this would all be far more enjoyable with some OMGGGG HOW CAN THAT BE?'s and then a couple AH! IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW's, though.

Edit: Thanks, Sinue. That cleared a lot up while obfuscating other things. (Fun!) The physical structure of Ryucross is an extremely good point and pretty well headshots the more-fun-than-likely theory of Ryucross=Ragol.

While nobody could ever prove the Alis III was the Ragol Ruins, I can't think of any evidence to the contrary.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: GoldRidley on 2008-01-04 18:31 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: GoldRidley on 2008-01-04 18:34 ]</font>

[Chaosgyro]

OMG IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!

Seriously though, I have no problem with the particular nuts and bolts of PSU's story. In fact, I find it pretty good. What I find is lacking is the overall direction of the story as a whole.

Right now it's like we've got some episodes of Kirk and Spock running around the galaxy on the Enterprise in the name of the Federation fighting gold-shirted Puerto Ricans named Klingons, and a few of Picard and co., also on an Enterprise, expanding some Federation in an "alpha quadrant" against some wrinkly forehead dudes also named Klingons. Proper story planning on the part of some talented creative teams allows us to see the connections and the disconnects between the two series, but we've got none of that as of yet in PSU.

[Nai_Calus]

I could rant for hours about 90% of this thread, but I'll merely note that both PSO Ep1 and Ep2 are perfectly consistent with eachother and there's only a 'problem' if you take EpIII's retcon bullshit into account.

I detest EpIII. The actual game wasn't so bad, but the storyline makes me want to stab things. I don't consider it canon, official game or not. Too much revisionist BS. 'Oh no wait it didn't happen like that, it really happened like this! Honest!' Ugh.

[GoldRidley]

Sinue:
Taken from http://psobb.com/community/index.php

PSO-BB Server Closure Timetable
December 9th Access to new subscription purchases will end and all recurring credit card transactions will be deactivated.

All active subscriptions (as of December 9th) will be granted free access until March 31st.
January 9th Free open access to all users with PSO-BB accounts until March 31st.
March 31st All PSO-BB servers will be shut down and service will be discontinued.

If you had a PSO-BB account at some point, it will be presumably be reactivated on January 9th until teh terribluh apocalips. I plan on going back and playing through the old world one more time before it disappears from the internets (officially, anyway) forever. If you never had an account, you're welcome to mine - drop me a PM if this is necessary.

Edit: No one else may play on my account, at all, ever. Nothing personal, Sinue just got lucky.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: GoldRidley on 2008-01-05 15:42 ]</font>

[Sinue_v2]

Yeah, I heard about that - and I do have an account already, but it's inactive. I hooked up for the free trial and didn't really get a chance to get into it too much. I mean, it's been over a year and my main on PSU is still lvl 81 so.... yeah. I don't think having an inactive account will work - you have to actively be paying a subscription fee to get the free months.

Anyhow, I just hooked up with Blue Burst again today - but through alternate means. If you want to play sometime, send me a message. I'm still really low lvl though.

And Ian, yeah. Even though I'm contributing to the thread - the very idea of all the storylines being connected after how convoluted they've become in their own storyline paths and the lengths to which they borrow from each other. I just don't see it happening, nor do I think I'd want to see the result of Sonic Team trying. Maybe they can work some of the old magic and pull a rabbit out of their ass with the next series in the franchise... but it's a longshot.

Personally, I'd be completely content with splitting the franchise into several different viable brands. Make one line of Phantasy Star an offline single-player RPG series based around Algol and the classic series. Perhaps prequals. Then split off the Online series - perhaps alternating between Ragol and Gurhal - or something completely new.

And I agree that EP III's storyline is pretty much a diamond hard fail for Sonic Team. Even in light of their other efforts. But I just can't ignore it as cannon - even if it contradicts the storyline laid down by Ep I & II.

[seph_monkey]

can anyone tell my wat planet this is since you guys know alot >.> i was wondering if that was ryucross and wats the planet thats being destroyed id appreciate it

o and if i gave away some kinda spoiler thing oops my bad

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c174/oxsephxo/phantasy-star-universe-ambition--1.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c174/oxsephxo/phantasy-star-universe-ambition-of-.jpg

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: seph_monkey on 2008-01-06 14:54 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: seph_monkey on 2008-01-06 15:13 ]</font>

[Sinue_v2]

Yes, that's Ryucross. The planet being destroyed is also, likely, Ryucross. But you never know... it could be one of the main planets.

And for good measure - this is Rykros
http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/genesis/ps4/images/walkthroughpics/part12/temple04.gif

And this is the surface of Rykros
http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/genesis/ps4/images/walkthroughpics/part12/temple05.gif

And this is one of the beings which inhabit Rykros
http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/genesis/ps4/images/walkthroughpics/part12/temple08.gif

And finally, this is Ragol.
http://www.efkm.com/dezoris/ps_ragol2.jpg

Actually... I guess you could make the case much more strongly that Ragol = Earth post-humanity. Though that still doesn't work out quite right. Especially since later versions of Ragol had it's own unique topography. I guess Sonic Team was either really lazy in the early PSO promotion or they decided to drop that particular angle.

(Also, the Landale looks MUCH cooler than the Landeel)

[KyEmo]

It'd be cool if PSO is connected to PSU...

[Ken_Silver]

what a powerful thread to say the least. I'll be re-reading this one in order to get a grasp of the whole PS story: connected or not. I dunno about PS I to PS IV but I played all of PSO that's available offline. Episode 3 blew and I also hate it with a passion and I didn't realize that episode 4 actually had a story to it (thought is was a remake of PSO 1 and 2 with new levels). But I just want to thank the people of this thread for giving those who don't know a whole lot about the PS series some info. But I do have a question. Would going to Wikipedia be useful for learning more about this? Or is there somewhere else I should go?

[xennec]

On 2008-01-06 18:04, Sinue_v2 wrote:
Yes, that's Ryucross. The planet being destroyed is also, likely, Ryucross. But you never know... it could be one of the main planets.


Hey... anyone remember the thread talking about how Parum is missing from the picture above the bed in the old future room?

[KyEmo]

I think that picture was taken from Parum, I don't know, could be from a craft.

Also, it's good to note that in that picture there is an off-color square in it.

[Chaosgyro]

Hmm, in the interest of personal safety I think I'll hold off on moving my room to Parum for now. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[xennec]

At first I thought it was taken from Parum too, but when I went to the planet select screen and looked at it the same way the picture was taken, sure enough Parum was right where the off color square is.

[xennec]

On 2008-01-05 15:40, GoldRidley wrote:
Sinue:
Taken from http://psobb.com/community/index.php

PSO-BB Server Closure Timetable
December 9th Access to new subscription purchases will end and all recurring credit card transactions will be deactivated.

All active subscriptions (as of December 9th) will be granted free access until March 31st.
January 9th Free open access to all users with PSO-BB accounts until March 31st.
March 31st All PSO-BB servers will be shut down and service will be discontinued.

If you had a PSO-BB account at some point, it will be presumably be reactivated on January 9th until teh terribluh apocalips. I plan on going back and playing through the old world one more time before it disappears from the internets (officially, anyway) forever. If you never had an account, you're welcome to mine - drop me a PM if this is necessary.

Edit: No one else may play on my account, at all, ever. Nothing personal, Sinue just got lucky.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: GoldRidley on 2008-01-05 15:42 ]</font>


I played on the open beta for blue burst, but quit after that. Do you think that I would be able to log on? Also, it seems to me like its saying anyone can sign up now and play and the playsega website still allows people to sign up for a BB account, so I dunno. This thread is just really making me want to play one last time for nostalgia before the servers are terminated.

[KyEmo]

On 2008-01-06 19:32, xennec wrote:
At first I thought it was taken from Parum too, but when I went to the planet select screen and looked at it the same way the picture was taken, sure enough Parum was right where the off color square is.



The painting doesn't make even any sense o.O

Moatoob is to the immediate Right/East of Guardians Colony. Parum is to the immediate Left/West.

Neudaiz is centered between Parum and Moatoob, so Parum can't be cut out of the picture.

The picture Isn't even possible, In order to see the GC in that position the picture has to be taken from Neudaiz. However, that is clearly Neudaiz in the lower left of the picture.

Get what I'm saying?

[KyEmo]

I have pictures too!

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii310/KyEmo/Planet.jpg

Ignore my amazing MS paint skills. My good computer with PSP is getting repaired._.

[GoldRidley]

No clue, Xennec. You'll know in a few days.

[Arika]

On 2007-12-30 04:10, Angelo wrote:
I believe Ryucross is Ragol


Oh look! Here comes Ryucross to alert the Guardians! Only something is terribly wrong.

Ryucross has become so infected it's become a planet-sized HIVE. Now, why would SEGA use the term 'planet-sized' and not just 'Large satellite' or something like that?

Because Ryucross was once a planet. But we need proof... something that proves it was once a lush, beautiful planet. If only there were some type of link to it's past...

Oh, how convenient!! VR simulators on the now-infected Ryucross! Let's take a look and see what this planet once was.

Well, looks like it's a carbon copy of Ragol!!

Ryucross, the planet that was supposed to warn the Ghural system of danger has now become the threat. How could such a thing happen?

Maybe the morons on the Pioneer 1 should've just left it alone.





Wow, that is really make sense!! heh,the story is deeper than what I thought

[Tamashi]

On 2008-01-06 18:53, Ken_Silver wrote:
what a powerful thread


thats a laugh.

[GoldRidley]

This thread's power will beat you up and take your lunch money, Tamashi.

Arika, unfortunately (for a theory that's as fun as it is) we've pretty much shot down the Ragol - Ryucross/Rykros theory. The physical discrepancies between Rykros of Phantasy Star and Ragol are too big to ignore. Ragol was and possibly still is an earthlike world, whereas Rykros was a comparatively small world entirely covered in crystal, the only inhabitants of which are spirits presumably in service of the great light.

Interesting to note that the art for the native(?) inhabitants of old Ryucross share visual similarities with the ancients referenced in PSU. This is anything but solid evidence, even in a thread that has made its way by virtue of the joy of conclusion jumping, but it is food for thought.

De-Vars:

http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/genesis/ps4/images/Monsterpics/de-vars.jpg

You should already know this guy:

http://www.pso-world.com/psu/beastiary/51/205-m.jpg

That brings us back to the question: Who the hell are the ancients, and how do they relate to older PS titles? Conventional wisdom says they don't relate at all, and I can't really argue with that beyond pointing to similar pretty colors.

But on subject of using artistic theme to suggest plot relation, something Sega DOES use (and defy the conventions of, sometimes in the same games), notice how similar Relics are to the Ruins of PSO. They are really damned similar. Suppose the relics sites are the remains of the ancient Gurhal/Algol interplanetary cultures? Remember, the cutscenes and art present only showed us the war machines the ancients constructed using A-Photon energy. This leaves a huge missing link between then and now - and a link corroborated by the extremely short term history of the cultures in PSU. We have been told *very* little of what transpired before the racial wars.

Last, I'm going to point out something that is going to give us all a headache if it proves halfway true. (Note: If anyone has a link to scripts that verify this, I would appreciate them. I could not find any online.)
Anyone remember the bits of dialogue in PSO that suggested the Newmen were a scientific creation, and a relatively new one, at that? That would imply PSO predated everything, including the original Phantasy Star series! You can see this information in many of the offline quests relating to Sue and Dr. Montague. On January 9th I will be going back and playing through every facet of episodes I, II & IV, and I will take screenshots of this and other pertinent information to our discussion.

[Sinue_v2]

Interesting to note that the art for the native(?) inhabitants of old Ryucross share visual similarities with the ancients referenced in PSU.

I think Sonic Team was trying to go that angle, or at least that inspiration.


notice how similar Relics are to the Ruins of PSO. They are really damned similar.

I don't really see it. They look pretty different to me.


That would imply PSO predated everything, including the original Phantasy Star series!

The creation of Numen in PSO, PS, and Newman in PSU are all completely seperate. To say that one predates the other, means that they would take place in the same continuity - in which case all evidence points to PS predating PSO, even anecdotal evidence like the AW/AUW (if they're concurrent) place PSO 800 years after PSIV. If you were to assume that Coral is a split of Algolian society - then most all Algolian humans at that point likely have a bit of Numan DNA in them anyhow. That was Rika's purpose - to spread those beneficial genes to ensure the survival of humanity on Motavia. Montegue could have come upon the creation of Numans either by accident, or by design.

Remember, Montegue CREATED Numans... yet he is himself a Numan. So that would indicate to me that he did some tinkering around on his own body - perhaps extracting some dormant DNA. Then isolating the DNA and re-creating it in a lab. Also, it's never really stated HOW Montegue created Numans... just that he did. In PS, it's stated that Numans were created by fusing the DNA of a human with that of a Biomonster. The first several prototypes were flawed, experimented on heavily, and eventually destroyed. Well, all but one... hence Neifirst and from her, Nei. Notice that cross-shaped symbol under my blue-haired Newman's eye? That's the Biosystems Lab insignia. You see it on most Numen. Neifirst, NM-2011, Rika, etc.

Also, it's not stated anywhere in the games or offical canon, but the "biomonster" used in Numen creation is generally accepted to be Musk Cat, because Nei was the character to fill Miau's place in the party - right down to their agility and penchant for claws. (Nei, Neifirst, NM-2011, Rika, and even Sue from PSO used claws. There is no claw using counterpart in PSU - but the main Newman lead, Karen, uses twin daggers as her signature weapon, which serve a similar function of being extremely light weight and fast dual-handed weapons for a "lithe and agile" character)

[GoldRidley]

First off, everything I've said here operates under the assumption that we're dealing with a single continuous universe - something we all find unlikely. I'm going with it anyway for the sake of entertainment. The AW/AUW, again, is only as concurrent as the universe(s), and hasn't been providing (well, providing me, anyway) with any more solid linearity than the loose relationships between the three series.

Secondarily, I don't recall anything about Montague being the designer of the Newman race. All of my memories point to him working on casts and photon technology almost exclusively. I could be mistaken - I'll find out soon enough. I am greatly looking forward to going through all of this again, down to the last quest, and it will no doubt weed out the more outrageous speculations rolling around in may head.

As for the musk cats... Oh god. Please, no. Who started that? Those goddamn Pikachu predescessors aren't the only source in the universe the newman could derive their magical affinity. I always liked to think of them as analagous to elves - but I admit one thing. PSII's Nei was definitely an annoying catgirl in spirit, if not in form. At least they don't have tails.

[seph_monkey]

you know how you said that cross shaped insignia under that blue newmans eye is that labs insignia well i rememeber seeing it at sleeping warriors relics site thing, basically im just asking wats the deal with that, and it could not be it but it kinda looks like it

(if you squint your eyes)
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c174/oxsephxo/psu20080107_123039_000.jpg

i also visited the relics site at the agata islands place, the holy grounds, but i didnt see it there
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c174/oxsephxo/psu20080107_123937_001.jpg

[Sinue_v2]

While there's nothing to state that AW and AUW either derive from the same, or different, sources - there is some circumstantial evidence to support it. AW stands for "After Waizz" - as in, Waizz Landale, the ruler of Parma who unified all the various warring nations under a single monarchy. AUW stand for "After Unification War", but there's unfortunately nothing in PSO's history we've seen to tell us more about this event. Coral is still inhabited by various warring factions, which indeed has caused wide-spread damage to the planet and necessitated the creation of the Pioneer Project (at least, as a cover). It's Elly, I think, who states that Coral has undergone generations of conflict and warfare. So to me, that doesn't sound very unified. Perhaps some event caused the unification of Copto 3084 years ago, and it has eventually fallen apart - much like PSU's Tripitite Tready is bursting at the seems now. (Although I don't expect the game to end with open warfare between the planets). Or perhaps AW/AUW do mark the same event, but being separated from Algol and the monarchy - it has come to be known under different terms. It's not like it hasn't happened before. At some point after taking the throne, Lassic changed the "AW" calendar marker to "SC" (Space Century) for unknown reasons, though possibly to try to erase all traces of the Landale name from Palman history.

Official PSO timeline prior to Pioneer 2's arrival (http://psobb.com/gameinfo/world/ct.php)

It's unknown what time the Alliance of Nations formed, whether it was before the Pioneer Project or in creation of it, but it's clear that the Alliance of Nations wasn't very allied.


Secondarily, I don't recall anything about Montague being the designer of the Newman race. All of my memories point to him working on casts and photon technology almost exclusively.

The first result was the joint creation of the two genius scientists Professor Osto Hyle and Professor Jean-Carlo Montague: the Mag. That was only a starting point in their research; they continued their work and began to develop and create things like Androids, and the artificial lifeforms known as Newmans.

Blue Burst Official Site - Entry on the Mother Project (http://psobb.com/gameinfo/world/team.php)


As for the musk cats... Oh god. Please, no. Who started that?

Tohru Yoshida


Those goddamn Pikachu predescessors aren't the only source in the universe the newman could derive their magical affinity.

They don't derive their magic/tech affinity from Musk Cats. Most all Musk Cats (while they are intelligent and can talk) cannot use magic or techniques. Miau was a special case, a genetic freak. Every so often one will come along that can, but as a race they are devoid of magic/techs.


I always liked to think of them as analagous to elves

But if you really trace it down to the root of where that race came from, they are descended from Musk Cats - even if just spiritually.


PSII's Nei was definitely an annoying catgirl in spirit, if not in form.

You're going to anger a lot of people with that comment.


At least they don't have tails.

They originally did. The only reason they don't now, is because of a last minuite alteration by Tohru.


well i rememeber seeing it at sleeping warriors relics site thing, basically im just asking wats the deal with that, and it could not be it but it kinda looks like it

I noticed it too, but if there's any sort of a link I have no idea what it would be. It's just a coincience as far as I know.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2008-01-07 12:02 ]</font>

[seph_monkey]

i was also wondering about those three pilar things you activate at ragol to unlock the area were dark falz is, the colors kinda resemble parum, moatoob, and neudaiz. i was thinking if ryucross isnt ragol maybe ragol was used to keep those "key" type things. wich we activated, or unlocked.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c174/oxsephxo/Pso_Proof_1.jpg

oh and sorry for all the questions im very curious >_>

[Sinue_v2]

They represent Palma, Motavia, and Dezolis. The planets of PSU are just derivatives of and a references to those original three planets. Although I suppose there's nothing to say that it CAN'T represent the planets of the Gurhal system. (Though if you want to really trace back sources, I suppose they could also represent Alderaan, Tatooine, and Hoth) Whether or not they have any bearing on the storyline, we don't know. The idea is that if the Ruins are the Alisa III - an Esper must have been onboard (since all the Nei weapons were aboard a single ship). This Esper is probably the founder of Sage Isle, but the information carried with him was lost or muddied over the years. The seal binding Dark Falz inside the spaceship wasn't very useful, as his influence still extended beyond the seal and when he did escape - he didn't go through the door, but instead blew a hole streight through the top of the ship and out of the ground. And then there's also this:

http://www.camineet.net/camineet/images/theories/rune.jpg

That's an Esper Seal. Yeah, it looks similar to the BioSystem/Mother Brain symbol - but there is no link between them. I guess you could extend that further out and say that that symbol is also a symbol of the Great/Holy Light, and by extension used by the Espers. If the ancients of PSU are part of the Holy/Great Light - that might explain the symbol in the Relics you posted earlier. However, the symbol is not used by the Dezolians or Communion of Gurhal that I've seen so far. Both Dezolians and the Communion worship the Great/Holy Light.

[zandra117]

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6799/phantasystarmapxj6.th.png (http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=phantasystarmapxj6.png)

PS star system map based off of my linkeage theory with ship paths.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zandra117 on 2008-01-07 16:58 ]</font>

[Sinue_v2]

So, you think the NeoPalm landed on Coral, and they are the founders of Coralian civilization? Interesting. I always saw Copto and Coral as the same planet - which if (as on your map) the Pioneer III made it's way to Gurhal, you would have a somewhat explanation for some of the references in PSU, such as the Landeel and the relief sculpture of the girl on the Guardians Colony (who we don't know who she is, but she's important for her to be featured so prominantly. Maybe Alis Landale?)

One thing that should be noted: We don't know how long human (and their derivitive races) have been in Gurhal. We only know that the Ancient Civilization dissapeared some 12,000 years ago. As far back in human history we've heard is around the time of the 500 year war. We know they were around before that since they created the races and had enough time to abuse them to the point of inciting warfare. But another curiosity is that the Holy Ground on Neudaiz are noted as being "The First Place Newmans Landed When Arriving on Neudaiz". So... humans had not had time to explore and colonize the already habitable planets of the solar system? Perhaps the technology just didn't exist - but even with our current NASA technology, if Mars were already terran and habitable to human life, we'd have colonies there.

So it's perhaps probable that the Pioneer III (which already had CASTS and Newman on it) landed in Gurhal and populated it. Perhaps there was stryfe aboard the ship - similar to the OPSS incident on Pioneer II and forced the Newmen to land on their own planet? Beasts, then created, to help mine Moatoob for natural resources to help build their new society.

I've always sponsored the idea that Coral is Copto - and that at some point after PSIV, Algol and Coral/Copto re-established communications and travel. Immigration from Algol (Motavia was dying, remember) might even account for some of the overpopulation and social uprisings which helped to tear Copto apart. Seeing a solar system which so closely resembles either their own, or one from their ancestery, might lead them to name the system in a similar fashion. Parum/Palma. Moatoob/Motavia (Motavia was green at one time too), and Neudaiz... or, New Dezolis.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2008-01-07 17:12 ]</font>

[GoldRidley]

I stand corrected on the link between Montague and the Newman. With that up on the Blue Burst site, it was mine to forget. As for the musk cats, please elaborate. Where did you get this information? You're the first person I've ever heard this from - I'm not trying to call you out, here. You're obviously more knowledgable concerning the PS series than I am. I've just stone cold failed to turn up any information on the topic.


You're going to anger a lot of people with that comment.
o noes. Well, if the musk cat tale (har har) is true, you've restored my opinion of Sega over one thing - life wouldn't be the same if the proud Newman we know and love today were a bunch of retarded nekos. I just plain couldn't stand Nei's pretty princess pet nature - or Sue, for that matter.

As for the esper seal, I wouldn't discard that as a potential plot point just yet. But it's a bit too early to tell.

[GuardianElite]

also I notice those Golmoro (sp?) enemies from Sleeping Warriors were bio-monsters from phantasy star 2

[Sinue_v2]

Phantasy Star Compendium (http://home.att.net/~RACapowski/PS/comtrans.htm)


Musk Cats (I, II, IV)
Animals possessing high intelligence. Alisa's loyal partner from AW 342 on, Myau, endeared the species to the humans of the time, and there was a boom in Musk Cats as pets. Their high intelligence allows all Musk Cats to understand the human language, but Myau's powers of comprehension far exceed any other Musk Cat's. A few of the cats abandoned by their owners after a mining accident in AW 1281 lingered in Skure, and, afterwards, their descendants founded their own village.

He was far more intelligent and cognitive than any other Musk Cats. This is the reason why he was able to use Magic. Couple that with the fact that none of the of the Musk Cats you ever meet in the later games can use magic, nor mention being able to use magic.


A man-made girl created from a fusion of human and evil-creature cells through polymotabiaglycol. A husband-and-wife team of biologists (former teachers of Eusis), opposed to genetic experimentation, took pity on the infant Nei, seemingly just cast aside, and broke her out of the research lab. She is afterwards raised by the couple, but develops with abnormal rapidity (in a month, she grew as much as a normal human would in a year).
When she was four months old, her adoptive parents were gravely injured by a rioting, evil-creature-hating mob, and only Nei escaped with her life. Afterwards, she left to wander alone.
She was rescued by Eusis as she was about to be killed by an evil hunter (when she was ten months old). Eusis took her in and raised her as his little sister from then on. In what could be called a short time, perhaps because she was raised amidst the warm love of her adoptive parents and her adoptive brother Eusis, she is an intensely cheery girl on the surface, though she has a dark persona lurking beneath. In public, she becomes reserved, throwing her guard up, but she plays the baby to big brother Eusis and her comrades.
She can't shake her complex feelings toward the evil creatures, probably because she's half of their blood. But against those - even humans - who harm her adoptive brother Eusis or her allies, she is absolutely unforgiving.
She holds about the same amount of fondness (perhaps even more) for Rudger, who has a potential death wish, as she holds for her adoptive brother, maybe because Rudger smells similar to Eusis.
Though half-beast and half-human, she's a pretty person and smart too. She has lithe muscles. Using an iron claw or similar in close-range combat, she can rip her opponents to shreds. ~ From the "World of Phantasy Star" book

Though it does have a few points I'd touch on. "Evil Creature" is misleading, but it's basically the same thing as "BioMonster". Also, the Hunter who Eusis saved Nei from was I believe was Darum. And he wasn't evil. He was just doing his job. Still, she's hardly a "pretty princess pet". Regardless, the link (even if only spiritual) between Musk Cats and Numen/Newmen is evident just by observation. She's filling Myau's shoes - just as Meiu from Phantasy Star III filled Myau's shoes. They couldn't have a Numan aboard the Alisa III - so they outfitted an Android/Cyborg with Technique casting ability (the ONLY one in PS Classic shown to have that ability) and claw weapons.

And you're also presented with several examples of imagery showing these four characters (Myau, Nei, Rika, Meiu) together. For example:
http://www.pscave.com/other/dramacd/fanbookfront.jpg

There's also a similar scene from the ending of Segagaga (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhhs5UpGrRE), which was a fairly recent game (came out about the same time as PSO v.2), that shows all four characters together. As they should be - they are all the same basic character, and spring from the same inspiration and source. Nei is a descendent of Myau. As is Meiu, Sue, and Karen Erra.

Also, I thought this was interesting. Since Sonic Team loves to take plays from the old playbooks - there might be something to these comments made by the PSIV design team shortly after the Saturn's launch.


Tsugawa: Myself, I want to see about killing off the Great Light this time around. (laughs)

Nishiyama: We really thought up of a lot of different ideas.

Tsugawa: Yeah, I remember. The idea was that Lutz would finally get a starring role, since Alisa and her companions would have died generations ago; the heroine would have lost her memory at the start of the game, but would eventually remember that she was a follower of the Great Light called Neta, and she'd go on a journey with the fourteenth generation Lutz. At least, that was the story we thought up at one time. Whether or not it'll ever come to pass is to pass is out of my hands; as it is, it was something that we thought up in our spare time.

Neta? Neta Note? Probably no connection, but I doubt it's a total coincidence either.


Yoshida: We are thinking to stop using Algol. So in the next game, we are going to start the premise of the game with Algol’s story. But if the beginning of the game is like that, the whole system of the game will change and the game would lose the clear framework of Phantasy Star. Because of this, if we are going to make the game again, I think we should not rebuild the new structure of Phantasy Star until we can find our clear definition of Phantasy Star as a framework.

Tsugawa: Whom did you tell we quit using Algol?

Yoshida: I thought I said that.

Q: And what of cutting off the connection to the Great Light?

Yoshida: That's the only way to connect everything, isn’t it?

And I thought this bit was a little lol-worthy.

Nishiyama: If we go to the Saturn, with the breaking down of hardware barriers, we'll be able to use a great number of new animation-style techniques, and, even though it'll be a difficult road, I think that we could lead the way in revolutionary stories and characters.

Ah well. Can't win em all, can ya?



On 2008-01-07 20:29, GuardianElite wrote:
also I notice those Golmoro (sp?) enemies from Sleeping Warriors were bio-monsters from phantasy star 2

They were? I don't recall any enemy like them.. 'cept maybe the Carriers but even then not really. Zoona and their variants though, they're probably based on the Terakites. (Or Nano-Dragons, which were based on Terakites)

http://www.pscave.com/ps2/enemies/images/terakite.gif

And speaking of which - one enemy I'd love to see them bring back. Pan-Arms (Twin Arms).
http://www.pscave.com/ps4/ps4e/twinarms1.gif


The beauty of the old man's shuttlecock is unparalleled in this world, meow.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2008-01-07 21:59 ]</font>

[GoldRidley]

Hmmn. Thanks! Interesting bit of trivia, there. The parallels are a little more clear when put into that perspective. Next time I mention Nei around here I'll be a little more friendly - with the way your posts exploded in my face, I thought I had stepped on some kind of internet land mine. Gotta' re-establish some common ground here...
Uh.
She's got a nice butt.

But wait... If humans+musk cats=newmans... How do you explain... THIS?!
http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/genesis/ps2/images/monsterpics/catman.jpg
Ha ha!

[GuardianElite]

On 2008-01-07 20:29, GuardianElite wrote:
also I notice those Golmoro (sp?) enemies from Sleeping Warriors were bio-monsters from phantasy star 2


They were? I don't recall any enemy like them.. 'cept maybe the Carriers but even then not really. Zoona and their variants though, they're probably based on the Terakites. (Or Nano-Dragons, which were based on Terakites)

the orangoo on dezo share similar psysical features of Golmoro

[Sinue_v2]

On 2008-01-07 22:36, GoldRidley wrote:
But wait... If humans+musk cats=newmans... How do you explain... THIS?!
http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/genesis/ps2/images/monsterpics/catman.jpg
Ha ha!

Obviously it was put into the game so that neko-hating bastard freaks like you could get your fix of killing catgirls. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

... Orangoo?
http://www.pscave.com/ps2/enemies/images/orangoo.gif

Anyhow, another enemy that would be cool to bring back would be the WireFaces.
http://www.pscave.com/ps2/enemies/images/wireface.gif

They could make them stationary enemies that pop out of the ground. Sort of like how Bul Bunas do - but they don't move and tunnel underground. They just pop out randomly and fire off lasers or status effect bullets. So they'd be like a bit of a cross between an environment hazard (such as turrets) and an enemy. Maybe even have a special attack - like Canadine from PSO. So if you destroy so many of them, they go into a beserk mode firing off random shots extremely fast until you destroy the control unit. Or they explode or something.

They would have really fit in to the AMF missions.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2008-01-08 15:50 ]</font>

[GoldRidley]

Whoah. Guilty as charged.

[KyEmo]

On 2008-01-07 21:49, Sinue_v2 wrote:

http://www.pscave.com/ps4/ps4e/twinarms1.gif


http://www.pso-world.com/psu/beastiary/82/74-m.jpg

O.O

[GoldRidley]

Heyo! New info from the JP content update planned for Jan 10.
http://phantasystaruniverse.jp/news/wis/?mode=view&id=580
Discussion thread (contains verification from JP readers/players)
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=166685&forum=20&start=0

Dark Falz on Ryucross? (From the above link, Babelfish "translated")
"Start counter: Attack celestial (untranslated text) core section direction
Darkness (untranslated text) which takes in the A photon of enormous quantity, furthermore obtaining new depending generation, from from ancient sleep awakes. This purify (untranslated symbol) system dark God fearfully, approach to the true puzzle which is concealed in (untranslated text)! !"

Field lobby: Dark Falz memorial?
"New intermediate lobby area "(untranslated text)" is added."
I can't read that, but the guys in the discussion thread claim to, and swear up and down it says Dark Falz (or Force).

Max Attack G ends. Messenger from a parallel world?
"Also the rear of the event ending continues in regard to the below-mentioned exchange mission which is transmitted in "the MAXIMUM ATTACK G" event, is transmitted.

* Messenger from the parallel world
* Paulownia turn GET! !"
Bad translation of something we already knew about, or a new thing entirely? I really can't tell which. And "Paulownia"?! Babelfish, you tease.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: GoldRidley on 2008-01-08 20:44 ]</font>

[Sinue_v2]

I'll bet "Dark Falz" is "Dark Fish", not some new boss or new form. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so. Also... "Paulownia"? I know of nobody in PS Classic or PSO by that name, either English or JP. It might be some new character or a reference without a known source - like "DeColt Line".

[GoldRidley]

Yeah, really. I'm going to be cheesed off beyond swiss and cheddar if they pull that on us again. One fish was bad enough. Or, give him a second form. Something interesting.

Paulownia btw, is most certainly a mutilation that Babelfish is directly responsible for. I have absolutely no guesses as to what that word or name is in its native language. Probably something mundane.

[Sinue_v2]

I'm going to Bree cheesed off beyond swiss and cheddar if they pull that on us again.

Haha, that's a Gouda one! (What a cheesy joke)

[landman]

As far as we know PSO newmen were created for the pioneer project and PSU newmen were created by gurhalians, they are not the same species and they don't have any relationship with Nei and Fal

And I am not a newman = catgirl hater, in fact I prefer the classical newman fighter over the actual newman = elven magician (and I've always seen Nei as a pet xD)

[Angelo]

By the way, I just wanted to point out that my theory about Ragol being Ryucross doesn't mean I believe it's the same Ryucross from the Phantasy Star series.

I believe it is the Ryucross of the Ghural system. Just a reflection the way Parum reflects Palma, Nuedaiz reflects Dezolis, and Moatoob reflects Motavia.

[GoldRidley]

Bah. If there's any relationship beyond artistic direction between the PS titles, any relationship at all, Algol is most certainly the Gurhal system. Although from the looks of things, they're probably priming us for some alternate dimension silliness. So make that any minus one.

Sinue, that was a muensterous pun.

[GuardianElite]

all i got to say humans werent native to gurhal system the had to come from somewhere....

[GoldRidley]

I dug up something looking for information on the newly released Spread Needle /G (which I found nothing on, I'm irked to say).

It's an interesting texture... It's not from PSU at all, but PSO.
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/1015/h256dfsekihi01km6.png

There's some debate, on and off, as to what it actually says. This might interest some of you.
http://www.ragol.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=11658

[Zufield]

On 2008-01-08 21:50, GoldRidley wrote:
Paulownia btw, is most certainly a mutilation that Babelfish is directly responsible for. I have absolutely no guesses as to what that word or name is in its native language. Probably something mundane.


Isn't "Paulownia" the name of a flower or plant?

[Arika]

Hi, I just want to add sth to this topic.

1. I found out that all PSO related weapon [b] seem to require Relic edge : Sinowline ,Pwand ,Crea double..
2. Dr. ??? in story mode say that the old civilization was destroyed, and they using A-photon ! (may be pioneer)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Arika on 2008-01-15 22:55 ]</font>

[Nai_Calus]

On 2008-01-15 11:01, GoldRidley wrote:
I dug up something looking for information on the newly released Spread Needle /G (which I found nothing on, I'm irked to say).



You didn't find anything on it because it isn't out yet. No one will have it until tommorow's maint ends.

[GoldRidley]

You didn't find anything on it because it isn't out yet. No one will have it until tommorow's maint ends.

Heard ya' the first time.

[Miyoko]

I'm kind of surprised nobody has mentioned something along the lines of "D-Factor" = "A-Photon"...

[zandra117]

Since this "Dark Fish" Dark Falz boss is apparently a boss of Ryucross based off of the environment of his arena I think its safe to assume that after the Maximum Attack G event he will not be the boss of the Ruins area and will instead be placed into his proper position in Ryucross. As for what he actually is I have a theory. After the confinement system was activated to contain the SEED in episode 1 a new Profound Darkness has formed within the containment system (Dimensional Prison) and this "Dark Fish" is the first Dark Force that it has generated.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zandra117 on 2008-01-16 10:27 ]</font>

[Nai_Calus]

The way you phrased it in this thread I thought you hadn't seen it in the other one. XP

Miyoko: Nobody's mentioned it because there's no correlation between it at all. You may be thinking of the SEED virus. Even there it's not really the same, nor is it treated the same.

Most notable is that the SEED is presented as universally bad - There was some greyness or even neutrality in the area of things involving D-cells, namely Mags - It's not made clear in the game itself, but it's mentioned in the artbooks that Mags have a core of D-cells, and that's why they can evolve. Other D-cellular things include such lovely things as Chaos Bringers and Delbiters, and yet your Mag never shows the slightest hint of turning on you, even in the direct presence of Dark Falz itself.

So the SEED == Pretty much universally bad, but D-factor == Potentially not bad. (I dunno, maybe the Great Light finally got off its ass and did something with Coral/Ragol and its influence is why Mags are good, despite what they're made of. It'd make sense with the Photon Blast circle's text. My theory was always something along the lines of your Mag somehow protecting you from being infected/keeping you from becoming a monster even though you'd gotten infected. Come on, Flowen runs into it once and ends up as Olga Flow, and I spend forever mucking around down in Ruins, fight Dark Falz and kick its ass, spend forever mucking around in Seabed in presumably D-factor contaminated water up to my waist, kick Olga Flow's ass and I *still* haven't gotten infected? Yeeeeah.)

The described symptoms of being infected by the D-factor and the SEED virus don't really match either - Kou Taragi changes pretty damned quickly, so does the kid in 9-2, with no apparent symptoms beforehand. Flowen's change apparently takes a while and is not invisible while it's going on - He mentions the wounds he got in Ruins moving, for example.

So other than being a great way to get a makeover you really didn't want, there doesn't seem to me to be that much similarity between them. A nod in the direction of the D-factor, certainly, but the SEED virus does not seem to be the same thing.

[GoldRidley]

Whoa. Mags have D-cell cores? That explains why they rocked so much harder than my crappy little girl.
As soon as this event ends, I have *got* to go back and re-do all the PSO quests. I've got some weird ideas, and a lot of them are probably the result of a fuzzy memory.