Crea Saber G...

[HaydenX]

Because of humans and newmans getting no special attacks...we got Crea weapons. Who all thinks we should be getting upgraded crea weaponry? S-rank sabers, daggers, twin-sabers, twin-daggers, swords and I was also thinking about a handgun with a built in penetration ability.

Tell me what you think.

[beatrixkiddo]

While I'd appreciate a wider variety of S-Rank weaponry, I don't see it happening. That's what I think.

[Chuck_Norris]

It would make it a bit more fair.

Also, inb4newmansummonsandhumantanks.

[Pillan]

Wouldn't surprise me if they exist, honestly. Guess we'll have to wait until S3 of the old missions to find out though.

[AlphaMinotaux]

S rank crea versions of weapons are way more overpowered than Nanoblasts and SUV's since its an all the time thing. I'd reroll if they existed.

[pionear]

The last time I looked, Crea Doubles were S Rank...And all races can use them...

[AlphaMinotaux]

OP is talking about the Crea special weapons which hit more than the regular amount of enemies. For example, Crea saber hits 2 targets instead of 1, which also applies to photon arts.

[Dragwind]

Hm, that would be interesting.

[Xencia]

Didn't apply to PAs last time I used one. If they did they'd be great weapons even with their much lower stats.

[AlphaMinotaux]

i thought they did :/ havent used one since the first few months when psu came out.

[HFlowen]

On 2008-01-03 19:49, pionear wrote:
The last time I looked, Crea Doubles were S Rank...And all races can use them...

Nothing of the Crea doubles follows the typical Crea standard other than it's name.

EDIT: And no extra hit to photon arts, they would actually be useful if that happened... =/

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HFlowen on 2008-01-03 20:15 ]</font>

[HaydenX]

I figure with just attack and the pp recharge thing, advanced crea weaponry wouldn't be gimped.

[A2K]

Does the extra hit on normal attacks make a significant difference for, say, PP regeneration?

[HaydenX]

It does on slicers, swords, whips and spears...I cannot imagine it not working on a crea weapon as well.

[_K1_]

On 2008-01-03 19:30, HaydenX wrote:
Because of humans and newmans getting no special attacks...we got Crea weapons. Who all thinks we should be getting upgraded crea weaponry? S-rank sabers, daggers, twin-sabers, twin-daggers, swords and I was also thinking about a handgun with a built in penetration ability.S rank Crea melee weapons would be useless to Fortetechers. And all but Sabers and Daggers would be useless to Acrotechers. Thats, what, 95% of Newmans? Not to mention Human AT/FTs.

Since Newmans and Humans are the races with the highest TP and lowest ATP, it seems kind of odd that Sega stuck them with gimped melee weapons as a racial "bonus".



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: _K1_ on 2008-01-03 20:43 ]</font>

[Gunslinger-08]

I see them as balanced, in that while their stats may be lower, the fact that they can hit multiple targets with normal attacks usually adds up to a higher total damage per swing. I sometimes wish people wouldn't just look at the numbers to judge them.

[Dre_o]

My 2 cents Meseta is this: we've got all these special materials like Armania and crap, I highly doubt that we won't get some more beefed up Crea (human and Newman only) weapons.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

On 2008-01-03 20:42, _K1_ wrote:

On 2008-01-03 19:30, HaydenX wrote:
Because of humans and newmans getting no special attacks...we got Crea weapons. Who all thinks we should be getting upgraded crea weaponry? S-rank sabers, daggers, twin-sabers, twin-daggers, swords and I was also thinking about a handgun with a built in penetration ability.S rank Crea melee weapons would be useless to Fortetechers. And all but Sabers and Daggers would be useless to Acrotechers. Thats, what, 95% of Newmans? Not to mention Human AT/FTs.

Since Newmans and Humans are the races with the highest TP and lowest ATP, it seems kind of odd that Sega stuck them with gimped melee weapons as a racial "bonus".



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: _K1_ on 2008-01-03 20:43 ]</font>


Man, I hate it when people start calling Humans "the other Force race" when they're really not intended to be. Humans can also go Acrofighter, Fighgunner, and Wartecher, as can Newmans, those classes can definitely make good use of S rank creas.

[majan]

unfortuntalely,save for crea doubles which are pretty strong and have a lot of PP,crea weapons are essentially useless. recently with the whole pp regen with more targets thing it seems crea weaps are a bit more useful because in using the normal attack and getting another target,you regen even more PP than usual. that doesnt change that they are still very weak. its very unfortunate that humans an newmans, physically at a disadvantage to casts and beasts,are endowed with this shiny exclusive weapon class that can do absolutely nothing but hit one extra target. and that doestn even apply to PA's.

crea weapons should be much,much stronger. then you'd see a lot more humans and newmans enjoying their exclusive little benefit and trying to hunt for them. till they get some sort of huge power boost,they're pointless.

[Smallredbox]

I got three things that could save crea weapons:

Crealine - head, arm, extra
Crea-Senba - head, body, extra
Rabol Crea - arm, body extra

What do you think?

[Aviendha]

On 2008-01-03 20:42, _K1_ wrote:

On 2008-01-03 19:30, HaydenX wrote:
Because of humans and newmans getting no special attacks...we got Crea weapons. Who all thinks we should be getting upgraded crea weaponry? S-rank sabers, daggers, twin-sabers, twin-daggers, swords and I was also thinking about a handgun with a built in penetration ability.S rank Crea melee weapons would be useless to Fortetechers. And all but Sabers and Daggers would be useless to Acrotechers. Thats, what, 95% of Newmans? Not to mention Human AT/FTs.

Since Newmans and Humans are the races with the highest TP and lowest ATP, it seems kind of odd that Sega stuck them with gimped melee weapons as a racial "bonus".

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: _K1_ on 2008-01-03 20:43 ]</font>

Nanoblast and SUV aren't so great on FT either, so I don't really see your point.

[Anduril]

I think ST should just find a way to use the charge bar and creas together. But that's just me. Though I do like the idea of stronger Creas, and maybe some other Crea weapon classes.

[A2K]

On 2008-01-03 22:32, Smallredbox wrote:
I got three things that could save crea weapons:

Crealine - head, arm, extra
Crea-Senba - head, body, extra
Rabol Crea - arm, body extra

What do you think?

I think Cresline is supposed to be part of the "series" with its name, although it doesn't actually combo with any of them and isn't actually all that good. It has no slots.

[Keiko_Seisha]

On 2008-01-03 20:32, HaydenX wrote:
It does on slicers, swords, whips and spears...I cannot imagine it not working on a crea weapon as well.



I just thought of an S-Rank Crea Whip, what would be haha.. S rank whips already get a +1 to the number of targets they can hit compared to an A rank whip.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Keiko_Seisha on 2008-01-03 22:47 ]</font>

[Chaobo99]

if a creasabra can hit 2 targets with a PA...than spinning strike will do lots of damage..Havent tested it yet tho

[Helly]

I don't see why they wouldn't do this I mean like aren't all the Crea weapons only 7*? Offering a 10* versions would seem fair!

[_K1_]

On 2008-01-03 22:37, Aviendha wrote:
Nanoblast and SUV aren't so great on FT either, so I don't really see your point.SUVs are good on any type of techer, and Nano would be good for techers who aren't focusing on support.

Anyway, my point was that it would have been cool if there were crea guns and tech weapons, so that all classes could use them. Especially since Humans are meant to play all types, and Newmans are the strongest forces.

Or maybe they should just let any race use 7* creas, since there's effectively no point to them as a race specialty. They don't even have an in-game explanation as to why only Newmans and Humans can use them.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: _K1_ on 2008-01-04 00:28 ]</font>

[Yusaku_Kudou]

They're great PSO replicas, but without the extra hits for PAs, they're just not really all that. Spinning Strike would be godly with a Crea Saber, then... Since my newman is really only switched between fF and fG, I would really appreciate some new Crea weapons.

[Akaimizu]

The creas were all melee, so that was my bit of disappointment. Part of it was that I played a Guntecher. You know, the class with the lowest melee access. And even then, I was a support build GT that pretty much would use Melee as a last resort and not a regular thing. In that case, the crea pretty much did nothing for me. So yes, creas kind of assumed you were going to be certain classes.

I didn't see the love until Twin Mayalee. That was the first (here Guntecher) I saw. Sure, it's class based and not race based, but beggars can't be choosers can they?

I know I sound like one of those old man (when I was your age people), but I was sure happy to see it when it arrived. Perhaps, I set lower standards.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-01-04 07:27 ]</font>

[DarkEliteRico]

Only decent crea weapon i've ever used is the yohmei version, grind that bad boy to at least five and it's pretty decent. They're fairly decent low lvl weapons once grinded, they're nothing amazing but they can be a nice addition to some characters palates.

[Chaosgyro]

I don't like creas as a "bonus" because A: they'll always be behind the newest released weapons for stats (and as such will be in constant need of updating/higher * versions) and B: they lock me into using a specific item if I want that "bonus. If a CAST wants to wield a Blackheart, he can still use his SUV. If a Beast feels happy with Majarra spam guess what? He can still nanoblast. Humans and newmans not only have to stick to certain weapon lines for their race bonus, they also have to stick to certain weapons.

Epic fail FTW.

[chibiLegolas]

I'd settle for 7* crea spears, knuckles, claw, double claw, whip, slicer; before wishing for race specific 10* crea weapons.

Why does crea ONLY come in the saber/twin saber/dagger/twin dagger/sword variety?

[SStrikerR]

Newman's should get summons and humans should get tanks ftw!
Nah....I don't think they would be used enough..

[Akaimizu]

I'd use Tanks, even though I know this is a joke and all; but I'd use them just for the insane Metal Slug reference people would think of, if I were to get a tank.

Even better if I play with all those guys out there, dressed in just swimsuits and stuff. That way, I can drive past them and they would be obliged to drop some weapon for me to pick up because I came to their rescue.

And considering that we kind of pull weapons out from nowhere (using those nanotransformers), it would complete the Metal Slug look. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

"Heavyyyyy Machine Gun!!!!!"

"Mission Complete!!!"

*thumbs up*

In fact, if we beat the boss with the Tank in play, the famous Metal Slug Mission End music should play during the death sequence.

(again, don't take this seriously. It's Metal Slug for crying out loud. Since when were they serious?)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-01-04 12:37 ]</font>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Even if Humans did get tanks, it goes against my Male Human being a samurai, so I still won't use it.

[Pillan]

On 2008-01-04 07:44, Chaosgyro wrote:
B: they lock me into using a specific item if I want that "bonus. If a CAST wants to wield a Blackheart, he can still use his SUV.


It's not like Casts are only limited to 1/3 the armors in the game and forced to use that slot to put their special attack into rather than further raising their STA, increasing PP regeneration, or HP autorecovery...

Oh wait...

[SirenV]

On 2008-01-04 13:19, Pillan wrote:
It's not like Casts are only limited to 1/3 the armors in the game and forced to use that slot to put their special attack into rather than further raising their STA, increasing PP regeneration, or HP autorecovery...

Oh wait...
I do see your point, but even without the SUV Casts are still more potent as a fighter/gunner. You could choose to not use the SUV, put in an hp/restore or what have you, and still be a more effective than a human/numan in anything that isn't tech related (except maybe GT), even if they had the current crea weapons.

With the highest Def, do you honestly need the bit extra from X armor, and the majority of you fighting types don't want extra evasion anyway. Point being, the amount of pp you would gain back from a unit or hp you'd get back is negligible since with SUV you can clear out a room of enemies a few times a mission without a scratch or wasting pp, time, and multiple items. Weapon variety is much more important than armor variety. Even if casts have to make a small sacrifice, SUV is a very useful tool, and it doesn't make up for the fact that crea weapons are just bogus.

I honestly wish they would just lower the gap between racial stats and let the classes define the characters more so than having race define basically everything. The % modifiers on the jobs contribute to this by just make the rich races more wealthy, and dont benefit stats at all that can't be used in certain classes which is pretty unfair.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SirenV on 2008-01-04 14:12 ]</font>

[Pillan]

On 2008-01-04 14:07, SirenV wrote:
I honestly wish they would just lower the gap between racial stats and let the classes define the characters more so than having race define basically everything. The % modifiers on the jobs contribute to this by just make the rich races more wealthy, and dont benefit stats at all that can't be used in certain classes which is pretty unfair.


The gap really isn’t that high. We’re talking on the order of maybe 10-16% between human and Beast (with ATA taken into account and ignoring the bonus human gets as every class that doesn’t begin with Forte-). If the difference appears higher than that, you’re either playing a different class or your gear is low element (fF has 20% more ATP than FG and Beasts get a bonus, so the difference can look like as much as 50% more damage). At that point it’s not the Beast’s fault.

But, still, the big question I’ve always had is “why would you play [insert race here] if you knew they traded [insert stat/ability/bonus here] for [insert stat/ability/bonus here]?” If you want more HP and ATP, why aren’t you a Beast? If you want more ATP, ATA, and DFP, why aren’t you a Cast? The high stats and the low stats for each race are clearly posted, so why would you choose one who traded ATP for TP if you want more ATP so badly?

For me, it was quite simple: I never liked damage techs in PSO and only played support as a FOmarl, so Cast was an obvious choice in PSU.

They’re never going to release anything that makes humans and Newmans better hunters or rangers than Casts or Beasts just because your paying for not sucking with damage techs. If it really bothers you so much, I would suggest switching to a Cast or Beast and leveling them during the high EXP event next week.

[Chaosgyro]

The gap really isn’t that high.

That's actually the primary reason why humans and newmans suck it so hard. Intra-class race differences are negligible in actual gameplay. Therefore, there's no good reason not to choose one that has a special ability. You've still got an option for either the aesthetics of clothes or parts that way.

[Pillan]

On 2008-01-04 14:40, Chaosgyro wrote:
That's actually the primary reason why humans and newmans suck it so hard. Intra-class race differences are negligible in actual gameplay. Therefore, there's no good reason not to choose one that has a special ability. You've still got an option for either the aesthetics of clothes or parts that way.


I thought that was the very reason to play one without a special. I mean, there are skills that do more damage than power Nanoblasts, whips, shadoogs, bullet arts, and techs provide enough SEs to make up for SUV effects. And then you add in the bonuses that lower the negative deviations further and increase the positive ones. I mean, humans have 16% less ATP than Beasts and lack Nanoblasts, but gain 30% more TP. In balanced classes (WT, AF, AT, GT; all of which human gets a bonus in), their EVP and MST can make up for the HP and DFP advantage of other races with mid-range element gear.

So, yeah, I honestly don't see the big deal. Humans have a small disadvantage as hunter and ranger and a lack of a special for the ability not to suck at techs. Newmans have a larger disadvantage as hunter and ranger (which is tiny compared to the disadvantage of Beast forces) and make up for it with even more tech damage.

But, you know what they say, “the grass is always greener”, etc. It still all goes back to the point of “hurry up and switch to Cast/Beast if you want the slight improvement in non-tech damage and a special so that you won’t have to gain even more levels.”

[HaydenX]

Because of those "Little Differences," A male beast FF using a 9* slicer, will out damage a male human AF using an 11* slicer. These "little differences" are actually huge differences. Why else would
mega / knight sell for 1000, when Solid / knight sells for 4M. The difference between the two is only moderate.
The little differences are gigantic when you factor in that every PA goes by %.

SUV (esp. Sturm series imo) are weay more powerful than any crea weapon that is exclusive to human/newman.

Nanoblasters have the same characteristics as a bow user (piercing) and can choose the invincible one to become...INVINCIBLE!!!

Humans and newmans got shafted with the first generation of Crea.

I belive that, just like the Shadoog, the Crea G weps should be based on TP not ATP. Then they'd be useful. Acrotechers would have a really good weapon as would AF. If you also add a handgun with penetration based upon TP, then GT would have something for the arsenal.

Add the crea G ST, you will make many Humans and Newmans very happy.

[Pillan]

On 2008-01-04 15:52, HaydenX wrote:
Because of those "Little Differences," A male beast FF using a 9* slicer, will out damage a male human AF using an 11* slicer. These "little differences" are actually huge differences. Why else would
mega / knight sell for 1000, when Solid / knight sells for 4M. The difference between the two is only moderate.
The little differences are gigantic when you factor in that every PA goes by %.


Whether the PA is 100% or 1000%, the 16% base ATP difference is still just 16%. In fact, the higher the PA mod, the more weapon ATP overshadows enemy DFP, so the smaller the Beast ATP advantage becomes.

And, you know, a 20% ATP advantage from the class does make that 16% difference look like a lot more. That’s why you don’t compare a Beast fF to a human AF, because there’s no comparison. Now, if you want to do damage like that, why haven’t you switch to fF? That class will beat any other class in terms of damage, and even more so when using “gimped” A ranks. (People still don’t realize how much more powerful A ranks are than S ranks just because you can spam synth them to get high grinds and high element…)

And the reason Solid / Knight sells for more has nothing to do with how much ATP it adds. It costs more because it can only be found and not enough people have found it to lower the price dramatically. It’s the same with any A unit. People always like more power, so they’re willing to pay that much for the small increase. (If it was sold in stores, no one would pay more than the store price for it, obviously. Same reason you could sell Mega/Power for 100k+ meseta before it was sold in stores.) If you care about the small increase, just switch to Beast.

But, yeah, I wouldn’t hold my breath on TP based melee weapons. The TP stat is way too high for them to add that without them instantly cutting the PA mod by 25-50%, similar to what was done with the original Kubaras. Either way, still won’t be any better or worse than the current Creas in that it will only be advantageous when you use the basic attack, and people will still complain.

Anyway, it all goes back to my earlier statement which I’ll probably have to repeat in every post. Humans and Newmans will never be better at melee and ranged damage than Beasts and Casts. If you care about the small increase, switch race.

[Chaosgyro]

Stop being so damn right Pillan. It becomes increasingly difficult to argue against you and not come off as an embittered misanthrope.

I accept that Beast and CAST rock the caspah in melee, but is it so much to ask that humans, and maybe newmans I guess....little fairies, get something cool?

Oh I know! At level 200 humans get the "Hate Crime" ability. It takes up an item palette slot, and when the bar is charged they can chuck a tactical Sochee high explosive device. Newmans...umm..get the "Divination" ability where they pass out and see a vision of their own imminent demise.

[Pillan]

On 2008-01-04 19:18, Chaosgyro wrote:
Newmans...umm..get the "Divination" ability where they pass out and see a vision of their own imminent demise.


That actually seems like a fitting ability for Newmans. Because they saw the future, their evade rate is temporarily boosted to 100%, so every attack recieved is blocked and they can constantly Just Counter (which would constantly be interrupted by more blocks).

Of course I can't see them adding a special ability to humans and Newmans without removing the partial class bonuses and reducing the Acro class bonuses to the standard 3% in addition to either buffing the ATP difference or nerfing the TP difference. But, yeah, giving them a special would lead to even more complaints still for that very reason.

I mean, do you really want to deal with the possibility that human/Newman ATP would suck as much as Beast/Cast TP for some new special that you'll only use maybe 3 times per run? (Whether they nerf human/Newman ATP or buff Cast/Beast TP, it will still be on-par with that.)

[Chaosgyro]

If it makes me feel as cool as I do when busting out Rapia Fluge offline then sure I'd trade the stats. There's a 100% chance of a high-pressure bitch system moving onto these boards if that ever happened though. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Actually, it's a moot point for me now. In a fit of angst and sleep deprivation last night I deleted all my characters and remade them as CASTs and Beasts. Now that I've awoken I'm not too upset...but I did forget to turn my PAs to disk from my main. *whimper*

[Pillan]

On 2008-01-05 06:27, Chaosgyro wrote:
Actually, it's a moot point for me now. In a fit of angst and sleep deprivation last night I deleted all my characters and remade them as CASTs and Beasts. Now that I've awoken I'm not too upset...but I did forget to turn my PAs to disk from my main. *whimper*


Ouch... It was really that serious to you?

But, yeah, good luck and have fun leveling up.

[Yusaku_Kudou]

I think PSU needs to look at one thing PSO did: bring back level-restricted equipment. Agito Repca on a level 50 just looks sad.

[Chaosgyro]

Ouch... It was really that serious to you?

No, not really but that's the way the cookie crumbles.