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killers7even
Jan 4, 2008, 01:07 AM
Well I'm a fortefighter, and I want to know if spinning strike (ultimate saber pa) is any good. The thing is, I find handguns worthless, although i do like the convienence of knocking birds down or shooting traps. So, the thing is, it's either between me using saber and handgun, or using twin claws. I have never used spinning strike before, but I could not be seeing it dish out more damage than Renzan Seidan-ga (shop twin claw pa). If it does, please say so, because that will be my decision on either using saber or twin claws. (Won't be using both b/c of pallet space)

(I know twin claws and sabers are totally different, but spinning strike [from videos] and renzan seidan-ga look like hard hitting one on one moves, and I would like to know which one is better)

Thanks in advance.

bahk
Jan 4, 2008, 01:17 AM
Spinning's start up is just too slow. If you want to use it to finish off that last straggling enemy from a pack, it's quite likely they'll walk right out of your reach. If against a big enemy, they'll probably belt you across the screen before you can finish all 4 hits, which you basically need to do since the 2nd part hits much harder.

As fF, I'd say Renzan is better. The enemy won't have time to move away, you can get the full 4 hits in quite easily, and even though the numbers won't be as big, it'll add up much faster. Missing with a hit is also much more merciful with Renzan.

Spinning seems more like an AF/FG PA, so that you can poke with your (good) left handed gun and then hard hit with the right when necessary.

Gunslinger-08
Jan 4, 2008, 01:21 AM
On 2008-01-03 22:17, bahk wrote:
Spinning seems more like an AF/FG PA, so that you can poke with your (good) left handed gun and then hard hit with the right when necessary.


I use it with my fG exactly as stated above.

NNEONateDogg
Jan 4, 2008, 01:41 AM
Spinning Strike is a must have for saber users. I can hit between 2000-3500 damage on enemies. These are currently my stats of Spinning Strike:

LV 24
PP Cost: 12
Att.: 294%
Acc.: 98%

I would recommend it. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

A2K
Jan 4, 2008, 01:46 AM
If I'm not mistaken it only hits a single target, ever. Big numbers on the screen, but... But then again, it also ends with a dropkick. A dropkick!!!!!

Aviendha
Jan 4, 2008, 01:57 AM
On 2008-01-03 22:46, A2K wrote:
If I'm not mistaken it only hits a single target, ever. Big numbers on the screen, but... But then again, it also ends with a dropkick. A dropkick!!!!!


Yes, only one target, that's the point. Spinning Strike is the strongest PA in the game against a single enemy, period. The startup is a little slow though. I'd go Renzan on fF.

Alisha
Jan 4, 2008, 02:01 AM
im my opinion the only reason to use spinning strike is for the awesome hulk hogan dropkick action. i have a feeling its supporters suffer from dark knight syndrome.

AlphaMinotaux
Jan 4, 2008, 02:16 AM
Rising Strike gets the job done faster just less flashy and since it hits 2 targets its better IMO. If you MUST have huge numbers pop up on your screen then Spinning is for you.

Spinning is too slow for me unless im playing as an acro class.

Aviendha
Jan 4, 2008, 02:26 AM
On 2008-01-03 23:16, AlphaMinotaux wrote:
Rising Strike gets the job done faster just less flashy and since it hits 2 targets its better IMO. If you MUST have huge numbers pop up on your screen then Spinning is for you.

Spinning is too slow for me unless im playing as an acro class.


Rising gets the job done faster if there are 2 enemies to hit, Spinning gets the job done faster if there is 1.

AlphaMinotaux
Jan 4, 2008, 04:17 AM
True but you also have to realize that Spinning Strike PA takes a long time in which you can be interupted. Rising strike is much quicker, really rough estimate but like 40% faster. Worst case try out spinning strike or find a fighter that has it to show it to you. Lots of vids on youtube.

Yusaku_Kudou
Jan 4, 2008, 09:37 AM
It's a fun PA, but in contrast as has been stated above, it is not the stongest PA while attacking an enemy. Anga Redda and Gravity Break will wipe them faster. But as A2K said... DROPKICK!

Darn Wii remote takes forever to type (but I didn't feel like using my keyboard).

panzer_unit
Jan 4, 2008, 09:54 AM
If you don't like using handguns, don't bother with saber. Renzan probably puts out single-target damage about as fast as Spinning Strike with much more useful moves in terms of crowd control and multi-target enemies etc.

Hrith
Jan 4, 2008, 09:58 AM
On 2008-01-03 22:57, Aviendha wrote:
Yes, only one target, that's the point. Spinning Strike is the strongest PA in the game against a single enemy, period. The startup is a little slow though. I'd go Renzan on fF.Actually, there are a lot of PAs which do more damage to a single target.

Assault Crush, Gravity Break, Dus Majarra, Hikai Shuha-zan, Hishou Jinren-zan (and a few others) do more damage to a single target than Spinning Strike.

Spinning Strike is too slow, easy to interrupt, long to JA and costs too much PP.

Neith
Jan 4, 2008, 10:22 AM
Use Spinning Strike on Acrofighter. The speed boost makes it an incredible PA. PP cost isn't an issue with PP recovery using Just Attack.

For fF, I don't even use a Saber, period. Renzan Seidan-ga does the job, and is a relatively fast PA to boot.

Spinning Strike isn't that slow really- sure, there's faster PA's. You won't get interrupted much on a fF anyway because your EVP is low and it takes a lot of damage to flinch you, and fF gets a PP reduction anyway. Only reason I don't use it on mine is because I use a Claw instead. It's a very useful PA though, well worth the frags.

Aviendha
Jan 4, 2008, 10:42 AM
On 2008-01-04 06:58, Hrith wrote:

On 2008-01-03 22:57, Aviendha wrote:
Yes, only one target, that's the point. Spinning Strike is the strongest PA in the game against a single enemy, period. The startup is a little slow though. I'd go Renzan on fF.Actually, there are a lot of PAs which do more damage to a single target.

Assault Crush, Gravity Break, Dus Majarra, Hikai Shuha-zan, Hishou Jinren-zan (and a few others) do more damage to a single target than Spinning Strike.

Spinning Strike is too slow, easy to interrupt, long to JA and costs too much PP.


Hikai and Gravity Break do not do more damage. And Gravity Break is hella slow. Hishou only does more damage because of the third part, which doesn't connect on most monsters. Assault does slightly more damage, although the PP cost is a bit steep. Majarra does slightly more as well, which figures, because Majarra is too good.

Yusaku_Kudou
Jan 4, 2008, 11:19 AM
Then I guess the 2500 damage I do with Spinning Strike compared to the 4500 I do on Gravity Break is a big fat lie from my TV trying to trick me.

Hrith
Jan 4, 2008, 01:04 PM
On 2008-01-04 07:42, Aviendha wrote:
Hikai and Gravity Break do not do more damage. And Gravity Break is hella slow. Hishou only does more damage because of the third part, which doesn't connect on most monsters. Assault does slightly more damage, although the PP cost is a bit steep. Majarra does slightly more as well, which figures, because Majarra is too good.You know, you should not talk when you have no clue what you are talking about.

Assault Crush is the most powerful PA versus a single target, and it does WAY MORE than Spinning Strike.

All the PAs I listed do significantly more damage than Spinning Strike at Lv20, at Lv30 and at LV40.

Learn how to calculate DPS before replying to me, geez.


On 2008-01-04 07:22, UrikoBB3 wrote:
Use Spinning Strike on Acrofighter. The speed boost makes it an incredible PA. PP cost isn't an issue with PP recovery using Just Attack.The problem with the PP cost of Spinning Strike is not the value itself (16 is not much), it's just that it's 16 PP for two hits, and 32 PP for four hits.

No other one-handed skill in the game has such an awful ratio as 32 PP for four hits.

Rising Strike is 30 PP for eight hits, which end up doing way more damage.

Hikai Shuha-zan is 40 PP for fourteen hits.
Buten Shuren-zan is 32 PP for twenty hits.
etc.

All in all, it's an awful waste of PP.


Spinning Strike isn't that slow really- sure, there's faster PA's. You won't get interrupted much on a fF anyway because your EVP is low and it takes a lot of damage to flinch you, and fF gets a PP reduction anyway. Only reason I don't use it on mine is because I use a Claw instead. It's a very useful PA though, well worth the frags.Most AoI monsters have attacks that flinch even if you take 1 damage, so that won't work.

And Spinning Strike is slow, it takes a second to land the first hit, most of the time, you'll get hit before it lands, and even if you're not canceled, it's annoying to get hit before your PA has even started.

If Spinning Strike was worth it, like Dus Majarra or Absolute Dance (etc.), I'd gladly take a few hits, but when you see how many faster PAs can outdamage it versus one target, I don't see why I should bother >_>
Spinning Strike is also slow during the animation, not only the first attack, so if there is but a second monster around you, you're a free target for them.

Spinning Strike is slow enough that it cannot follow fast movements like the Go Vahra hop/leap, while Assault Crush and Hikai Shuha-zan, for instance, can.

Never played Acrofighter, though, so maybe the slight speed bonus can make some so-so PAs like Spinning Strike and Cross Hurricane worth using, but I doubt it.

They should give Spinning Strike 500% ATP for it to match the DPS of Assault Crush, and I don't see that happening.

panzer_unit
Jan 4, 2008, 01:44 PM
On 2008-01-04 10:04, Hrith wrote:
Assault Crush is the most powerful PA versus a single target, and it does WAY MORE than Spinning Strike.
...
The problem with the PP cost of Spinning Strike is not the value itself (16 is not much), it's just that it's 16 PP for two hits, and 32 PP for four hits.


Assault Crush lv40 vs single target (according to PSU-Wiki)
2x 255%, 2x 215%, 4x195% = 1720% ATP - 8x enemy DFP

Spinning Strike lv40 (same)
2x 340%, 2x 460% = 1640% - 4x enemy DFP

... so compared to AC the damage difference is just a fraction of one normal attack, you'll pull ahead both because Sabers have a couple hundred extra ATP and because the enemy's DFP is subtracted from Assault Crush's damage twice as many times.

Spinning Strike is good for PP if you look at something relevant like PP/total damage. I don't know why you'd count hits and ignore how much each one counts for lol.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-01-04 11:37 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-01-04 11:48 ]</font>

Aviendha
Jan 4, 2008, 01:50 PM
On 2008-01-04 10:04, Hrith wrote:

On 2008-01-04 07:42, Aviendha wrote:
Hikai and Gravity Break do not do more damage. And Gravity Break is hella slow. Hishou only does more damage because of the third part, which doesn't connect on most monsters. Assault does slightly more damage, although the PP cost is a bit steep. Majarra does slightly more as well, which figures, because Majarra is too good.You know, you should not talk when you have no clue what you are talking about.

Assault Crush is the most powerful PA versus a single target, and it does WAY MORE than Spinning Strike.

All the PAs I listed do significantly more damage than Spinning Strike at Lv20, at Lv30 and at LV40.

Learn how to calculate DPS before replying to me, geez.
Never played Acrofighter, though, so maybe the slight speed bonus can make some so-so PAs like Spinning Strike and Cross Hurricane worth using, but I doubt it.

They should give Spinning Strike 500% ATP for it to match the DPS of Assault Crush, and I don't see that happening.


No matter what magical DPS calculations you're using, Gravity Break JA takes too long for it to beat Spinning strike on single target. I'll admit that I didn't take Hikai's speed into account, so it probably does do more DPS. I believe Hishou will only outdamage Spinning Strike on the few monsters that aren't knocked away too far by the 2nd part (Sendillians, etc). Majarra and Assault Crush, yes, I was wrong in my intial post, but you weren't entirely correct either. Let's not fight.

Oh, and as an AF I still get knocked out of Cross Hurricane before the 2nd and 3rd part too often. =/

panzer_unit
Jan 4, 2008, 01:52 PM
LOL don't ask Hrith not to fight. He'll take it as a sign of weakness and go after you even worse.

EphekZ
Jan 4, 2008, 02:00 PM
For a class like Acrotecher or Acrofighter, it's an amazing PA. It's one of your highest and quickest forms of damage. I don't know why everyone is saying it's too slow, I've never had a problem with it. Even when I was using it on WT, or FG, it wasn't too slow. I'd rather not go into some whole DPS bawfest, but how exactly does Rising strike do better than Spinning strike? I haven't used the PA in a while so I don't know the numbers, but considering I can deal 6000 dmg per combo on my AT I fail to see how 2 hits can out damage it since it knocks the enemies far away after the 2nd hit.


Anyway, I love Spinning strike, it's a good clutch PA and really good when there's only 1-2 enemies with a lot of HP.

edit: how the hell can it not follow vahra movements? You must be using it seriously wrong, I've never had trouble hitting an enemy. You can turn a whole 360 degrees. Also, with JA, you should be hitting the enemy first to stun it anyway. It's fucking common sense man.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: EphekZ on 2008-01-04 11:19 ]</font>

SolomonGrundy
Jan 4, 2008, 02:23 PM
not a fF PA, that's for sure. Robado, or the second twin claw PA heap hits on a single target.

Spinning strike is great on an AF, AT, PT, or Forteguner.

Assault Crush is a good PA, but I would not use it the same whay I use spinning strike.

Side note: some enemies only have a single hit location. Extra hits from other PAs don't help

Pengfishh
Jan 4, 2008, 02:35 PM
DPS? When the fuck does that ever even come into play? So Spinning Strike takes 3, maybe 4 more seconds to kill a single monster than another PA. Are we really dividing our time down to the second anymore? Is it even worth arguing?

Kelvie
Jan 4, 2008, 03:03 PM
Sega can make the monsters as weak as they can and make us as strong as they can, peoples will still argue about dps.

Even if any attack was enough to one-shot any monster, they would still argue about which photon art is the strongest.

Not that it is a bad thing to want to maximise your power output, but the whole comunity here seems to be obsessed with dps, and dps only.

NNEONateDogg
Jan 4, 2008, 03:13 PM
On 2008-01-04 11:23, SolomonGrundy wrote:
not a fF PA, that's for sure.

That's not true, I'm a fF and I use it. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Shiro_Ryuu
Jan 4, 2008, 03:22 PM
I laik Spinning Straik becuz it haz t3h big numbarz! Gravity Break has even biggar numbarz!

Ok, no, seriously, on my Acrofighter, Spinning Strike is pretty much a stable PA with the speed boost, on a Fortefighter, I would prefer Renzan Seidan-ga, Gravity Break, or Assault Crush depending on what I feel like using. Spinning Strike is also good for its knockback at the last hit of the PA, so its pretty useful with an Acro class which helps with the slow startup time of the PA.

Sexy_Raine
Jan 4, 2008, 03:40 PM
It's only decent when you use it on a single enemy, but it's not really that accurate either. You'll see 0's and sometimes end up getting knocked out of the animation. Best damage as an AT my ass, Rising strike is far more reliable PA with the speed boost and JA'ing.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2008-01-04 12:51 ]</font>

Akaimizu
Jan 4, 2008, 03:45 PM
Certain folk talk about DPS, gunners want tougher monsters so they can utilize their Burn and Infect SEs and see them help the others take the monsters down faster. Nowadays, the DPS is so strong, the others don't really care much about SEs. Most classes nowadays have DPS to drop regular monsters super fast.

It kind of goes back to the early days with the *epeen* people on these topics talking down SEs and debuffs because they can destroy monsters so fast they don't even care what gunners or support techers can do. (Then again, I fell into their pressure and started working really hard, with my Guntecher, to prove them wrong.)


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-01-04 12:48 ]</font>

Hrith
Jan 4, 2008, 05:50 PM
On 2008-01-04 10:52, panzer_unit wrote:
LOL don't ask Hrith not to fight. He'll take it as a sign of weakness and go after you even worse.._.
That's insightful >_>


On 2008-01-04 11:00, EphekZ wrote:
I don't know why everyone is saying it's too slow, I've never had a problem with it.It's not THAT slow, but there are other PAs which are faster and more powerful.
I do use Spinning Strike on Fortegunner, but it's such a disappointing PA. People like it because they see BIG NUMBARZ, but it's actually the weakest single saber skill =/



how the hell can it not follow vahra movements? You must be using it seriously wrong, I've never had trouble hitting an enemy. You can turn a whole 360 degrees. Also, with JA, you should be hitting the enemy first to stun it anyway. It's fucking common sense man.When locking on a Go Vahra (well it's an example, this applies to other monsters, too), if the Go Vahra uses a leap attack or does a backdash during Spinning Strike, you will lose your lock-on, it's very annoying.
Spinning Strike is only 4 hits, missing a single one of these hits is a huge waste.


On 2008-01-04 11:23, SolomonGrundy wrote:
Some enemies only have a single hit location. Extra hits from other PAs don't helpWell, yeah, that's what we've been discussing. Even on such monsters, Spinning Strike comes like in 7th or 8th position for damage.


And to the trolls who only reply "stop discussing DPS": GTFO.
There is a clear difference between discussing DPS on a forum and being like that in-game.

Shiro_Ryuu
Jan 4, 2008, 06:11 PM
Actually Raine, once you level it high enough, Spinning Strike has a 114% Acc mod, which isn't so bad. I'm not having troubles with ATA, and I'm using a Solid / Power S. But then again, Acrofighter has so much ATA on a melee class that its pretty much overkill.

Pengfishh
Jan 4, 2008, 06:14 PM
Triflin' hoes.

Zael
Jan 4, 2008, 10:41 PM
On 2008-01-04 12:40, Sexy_Raine wrote:
It's only decent when you use it on a single enemy, but it's not really that accurate either. You'll see 0's and sometimes end up getting knocked out of the animation. Best damage as an AT my ass, Rising strike is far more reliable PA with the speed boost and JA'ing.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2008-01-04 12:51 ]</font>

Not accurate? lol, Spinning Strike's one of the few PAs with an ATA mod over 100%

BahnKnakyu
Jan 4, 2008, 10:50 PM
Not accurate Raine? It's got loads of ATA once you get it higher.

Spinning Strike is a pretty good "I need to do damage NOW" option for ATs. Of course AFs and other melee classes have better access to things, but Spinning Strike helps ATs make up for the piss-poor melee damage they do. I prefer to melee than nuke as a Human AT, so I take every chance I can get when it comes to utilizing the PAs ATs can use.

The problem with Rising Strike is that if you're in a 1v1 situation (especially as an AT), the "potential damage" is wasted. Spinning Strike does not suffer this, and as panzer pointed out, *because* it does fewer hits, there's lesser chances for the enemy's DFP to buffer the damage.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Rising Strike, it's great for surgical strikes where you gotta keep stuff on its back ASAP, but to really make it shine, you HAVE to have two targets. That's why I don't use Rising Strike for damage, I use it as a means of support and switch to Spinning Strike and the Single Dagger PAs for damage.

But you know what, to the OP, get it cos the DROPKICK is what makes it awesome.

Zael
Jan 4, 2008, 11:13 PM
Idk, but I prefer Shunbu Shouren-Zan over Rising Strike for a launch/knockback PA.

Shiro_Ryuu
Jan 4, 2008, 11:23 PM
I agree, Rising Strike isn't exactly a DPS skill, its more for the knockback, and I kind of prefer it over Shunbu which takes longer to start up.

Hrith
Jan 5, 2008, 09:28 AM
Rising Strike is not a DPS skill, but outdamages Spinning Strike which is a DPS skill.

Making sense.

AlphaDragoon
Jan 5, 2008, 12:51 PM
Are you kidding me? On Acrofighter, Spinning Strike is an amazing PA. If it's a single target enemy...it's gonna outdamage Rising Strike. BY FAR. Want an example? Lv. 108 AF with lv. 40 Rising/Spinning Strike on a Jishagara: Rising hits somewhere in the 4500 HP range total, while Spinning hits for about 9000. In addition to the fact that is has knockdown on the first combo and blow-away on the second, and a 114% ACC modifier at lv. 40.

If you're fighting an enemy with a single target that PA works wonders, so I'd call it far from useless.

Shiro_Ryuu
Jan 5, 2008, 12:56 PM
Yeah, but Dropkick, which is the reason why I got Spinning Strike.

AlphaDragoon
Jan 5, 2008, 01:14 PM
Funny thing is, the dropkick is the only thing I don't like about Spinning Strike. But I've used it so much that I've gotten used to it and laugh.

Sexy_Raine
Jan 5, 2008, 03:41 PM
Sega is dumb for giving fems a male lobby animation. One of the reasons I dislike using Spinning strike. Rising Strike is just a lot faster and safer to use, reason I only use that.