Opinions on S-Rank Guns for Fighgunners

[Leahcim]

Looking at Wartechers, I think sega was on to something be giving them the S rank Wand!
And Guntechers the S rank Bow was smart too...

But why was figunner left out in this? I think Figunner should have been given an S rank Gun... Discuss.

Handgun is the most obvious
Twin Handgun would be more useful (why not both?)
Mechgun...?
Crossbow... ya that'd be pushing it lol

EDIT: Updated Thread Title

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ryna on 2008-01-05 08:53 ]</font>

[daniel_drago]

ahh im gona like this topic well seein as im 1st poster...hopefully lol
right well lets start it with they didnt get anything coz they alrdy hav class specific weap (doublesaber) they dont need a weap boost http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[AlphaDragoon]

Twin Handguns. Actually "Fighgunners" get hosed HARD on the "gunner" portion of their namesake. They should have at least rifles, IMO.

[RACast_Raiden]

FighGunner's main purpose is Melee NOT gunning...

and where's the option for "None of the above"?






<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RACast_Raiden on 2008-01-05 08:57 ]</font>

[Aviendha]

FiG gets the 'light' guns. PT gets the 'heavy' ones.

[CAVAOUBIEN]

On 2008-01-05 08:48, RACast_Raiden wrote:
FighGunner's main purpose is Melee NOT gunning...



Really? I really wonder what the "gunner" in Fighgunner stands for then. To put more emphasis on melee?

[Kion]

or maybe a switch; loose S rank twin daggers for S twin handguns.

i'd also be in favor of a acrogunner class that dealt with two handed weapons. grenade launcher, laser, twin handguns, rifle, twin sabers, twin daggers. a mix of heavy gunslinging and close range combat.

[Hrith]

Twin Handgun would be one of the worst possible choice, for numerous reasons I already stated in another forum.


The best choice, as Pillan remarked in said forum, would be RCSM (aka Shadoogs), because it's the only gun where grade actually matters, since only S grade RCSM give the Stun SE when of earth element.

The most powerful choice would be crossbow, obviously, but it would be a bit too much.

Machineguns don't gain any noticeable ATP with grade, just more PP, so it would only be for looks.


But yeah, I "vote" RCSM, which is undeniably the best upgrade Fighgunner could get, and is not even in your poll >_>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Fighgunner's fine the way they are. They're supposed to be primarily melee with gunning on the side. And also, if there was an Acrogunner class, Grenade Launchers and Laser Cannons wouldn't fit with the whole Acro thing since Acro usually means using one-handed fast weapons.

[DarkEliteRico]

On 2008-01-05 08:51, CAVAOUBIEN wrote:

On 2008-01-05 08:48, RACast_Raiden wrote:
FighGunner's main purpose is Melee NOT gunning...



Really? I really wonder what the "gunner" in Fighgunner stands for then. To put more emphasis on melee?

Figh = fighter, THEN gunner...seems logical that they would focus more on melee then on the gunner portion of their class. They already have class specific weapons and are one of two classes that can use S-rank twin daggers. Let my guntecher keep her S-rank twins



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DarkEliteRico on 2008-01-05 09:40 ]</font>

[Leahcim]

Their name is spelt fighgunner? wow, that looks so awkward with the two g's ... =/

[Hrith]

Your mom looks awkward.

[Tekershee]

Keg: Je ne comprends pas! Mon pantalon est une piscine!

[Rayokarna]

No. They should not get S Rank guns. No.

[Criss]

They're fine as it is. If you want them to have S rank guns, then other classes should get to use double sabers.

[Syl]

On 2008-01-05 12:14, Rayokarna wrote:
No. They should not get S Rank guns. No.

[Kion]

On 2008-01-05 09:27, Shiroryuu wrote:
if there was an Acrogunner class, Grenade Launchers and Laser Cannons wouldn't fit with the whole Acro thing since Acro usually means using one-handed fast weapons.



wouldn't neccesary be called "acro". the only niche not covered by the current class selection is a gunner based class with decent close combat capabilities. something like protransfer, but with fast multihit hit weapons.

as for figgunner, it's not like they're going to need S rank weapons considdering Sonic teams horrible inability to make a balanced game.http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z88/kion_01/twins.jpg

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kion on 2008-01-05 20:44 ]</font>

[Cry0]

yeah, twin hg, mechs, or slicers. any of those is fine.

[Sekani]

Why the hate? At the moment fighgunner is the only hybrid class with one-dimensional S-rank weapon selection. To elaborate, guntechers get both ranged and tech S-ranks, and wartechers get both melee and tech S-ranks, but fighgunners only get melee and no ranged S-ranks. I don't see how giving them S-rank handguns or twin handguns is going to step on anyone's toes. S-rank RCSMs wouldn't be the best idea since acrofighters already have those, and the last thing we need are more similarities between fighgunners and acrofighters.

[gryphonvii]

give shotguns

[Pillan]

On 2008-01-05 09:15, Hrith wrote:
The best choice, as Pillan remarked in said forum, would be RCSM (aka Shadoogs), because it's the only gun where grade actually matters, since only S grade RCSM give the Stun SE when of earth element.


Pretty much what he said. Free higher level SE without a break in my high-end melee damage. What more could one ask for?

Pretty guns that add an extra 10 damage max? (Or lower my damage after they add Ruby Bullet/Twin Ruby Bullet...) No thank you.



On 2008-01-05 14:53, Sekani wrote:
To elaborate, guntechers get both ranged and tech S-ranks


That statement isn't true. Guntechers only get ranged S ranks. Though bows can be considered a techer-weapon, they still are a ranged techer weapon and neither use TP nor allow you to attach a tech to them.

Fortefighter, Fighgunner, Fortegunner, and Guntecher only have S ranks in one catagory and they really don't need any more.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2008-01-05 14:58 ]</font>

[KyEmo]

Fighs don't need S rank guns >.>

[Miyoko]

On 2008-01-05 12:14, Rayokarna wrote:
No. They should not get S Rank guns. No.

[SStrikerR]

On 2008-01-05 09:36, DarkEliteRico wrote:

On 2008-01-05 08:51, CAVAOUBIEN wrote:

On 2008-01-05 08:48, RACast_Raiden wrote:
FighGunner's main purpose is Melee NOT gunning...



Really? I really wonder what the "gunner" in Fighgunner stands for then. To put more emphasis on melee?


Figh = fighter, THEN gunner...seems logical that they would focus more on melee then on the gunner portion of their class. I don't think that's correct, They are supposed to have fighting and gunning yes, and probably more on the melee side, but the name thing doesn't make sense. They could want it to just be fighting and gunning. Did you notice that every melee hybrid starts with the fighting part first? If they changed it around to make it be easier for people like you, they'd make fighgunner gunnerfigh, wartecher techerwar. Yeah those names sound real good don't they?
But i think fighs should either get S rank twinnies, or a rifle up to A rank. Rifle isn't exactly a heavy weapon, it's in the middle.

Hrith: we don't need stupid posts like, "you mom looks awkward." pointless.


They already have class specific weapons and are one of two classes that can use S-rank twin daggers. Let my guntecher keep her S-rank twins



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DarkEliteRico on 2008-01-05 09:40 ]</font>

[BlueInfinity]

So lemme get this straight? you want more s rank guns spite the fact that your the only class to use s rank double saber......

excuse me for a second I feel a face palm coming on.

[Sekani]

On 2008-01-05 14:55, Pillan wrote:
That statement isn't true. Guntechers only get ranged S ranks. Though bows can be considered a techer-weapon, they still are a ranged techer weapon and neither use TP nor allow you to attach a tech to them.

I thought they could use S-rank TECH-mags. Oh well. Still don't see the problem with giving the fighs S-rank single or twin handguns. Maybe if someone out there has a reason other than "no" we might have an actual discussion here.

On a slight aside, I have to laugh at all the hate over the double saber exclusivity. Last I checked the general consensus on these forums was that double sabers sucked and no one would use them anyway, now people are hating.

[NGX]

I'm perfectly content with Fighgunner the way it is and I love the Double Sabers. They were always my favorite in PSO. It would be cool to be able to use S rank handguns though.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NGX on 2008-01-05 18:06 ]</font>

[HaydenX]

I say...Give 'em s-rank Handguns. They aren't that good anyway and it'd make them happy.

'nuff said.

[Shishi-O]

On 2008-01-05 08:40, daniel_drago wrote:
ahh im gona like this topic well seein as im 1st poster...hopefully lol
right well lets start it with they didnt get anything coz they alrdy hav class specific weap (doublesaber) they dont need a weap boost http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

that and 9* of those weps can easily be brought to 10/10

Fi is extremely powerful

[29_Will_29]

On 2008-01-05 17:53, Sekani wrote:

On 2008-01-05 14:55, Pillan wrote:
That statement isn't true. Guntechers only get ranged S ranks. Though bows can be considered a techer-weapon, they still are a ranged techer weapon and neither use TP nor allow you to attach a tech to them.

I thought they could use S-rank TECH-mags. Oh well. Still don't see the problem with giving the fighs S-rank single or twin handguns. Maybe if someone out there has a reason other than "no" we might have an actual discussion here.

On a slight aside, I have to laugh at all the hate over the double saber exclusivity. Last I checked the general consensus on these forums was that double sabers sucked and no one would use them anyway, now people are hating.



I don't see anything wrong with Fighs getting S rank twin handguns and if another class got double saber
I'm sure that there would be threads like zomgwtf[insertclass]doesnt need double saber its teh noob weapon111!!!!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 29_Will_29 on 2008-01-05 19:12 ]</font>

[Africa]

i find this topic a little off but here's my two cents. fighgunner doesn't need s rank guns for a couple reasons
1. they can use slicers =ranged damage
2.they would have to lower your atp cuz u would out damage any other gunner with twin handguns or other gun period
3.nobody complains about wartecher being the only fighter that can't use slicers
4.moatoob guns hit hard so
5. there's no issue if they gave you the pistol tho why can you wear a stormline and not use the weapon baffles me

[Criss]

Fighgunners are melee specialists that have a selection of backup ranged weapons. Nothing more.

This said, fighgunners do not need any S rank of any gun, with the exception of perhaps some single handed guns that could be used with a melee weapon (such as single handgun or machineguns).

Besides, there's really nothing special with S rank Twin Handguns to really want them. Tenoras are already stronger than 11* Twin Tornados when grinded, and the 9* Twin Ruby Bullets will only make S ranks that much more unimpressive.

Fighgunners already have a great selection of S rank melee weapons, and are already proficient enough with the A rank guns they have. They're perfectly fine right now.

[Xaeris]

I don't particularly think they need one, but if they were to get one, I would say dualies are the best fit. It wouldn't be the most useful addition mind you, but I say best fit in differentiating the type from AF. As it is now, they're so disgustingly similar, the difference between them is that one is just better than the other. Giving FG an edge in FPS shooting (assuming one of those 13-15* dualies possesses some intrinsic quality like firing faster) would help that.

[GreenArcher]

Meh. Maybe they should get S rank handguns.

[Shoobie]

lmao criss, amen to that.

[Gunslinger-08]

Without going overboard, I'd say giving them S rank Handguns would be fine. A little something nice, but why on earth should they get S rank twin handguns when FGs don't?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gunslinger-08 on 2008-01-05 21:52 ]</font>

[Genoa]

I agree with Hrith on S-rank shadoogs. Fighgunner TP isn't bad either, they could pull it off nicely with a melee. It would require them to use some one-handed melee weapon too, which is rare to see, with all the double sabers and twin handguns I see them mostly using... =/
Someone would, God forbid, confuse them for an Acrofighter ;o !!!

[pokefiend]

On 2008-01-05 19:42, Africa wrote:
i find this topic a little off but here's my two cents. fighgunner doesn't need s rank guns for a couple reasons
1. they can use slicers =ranged damage
2.they would have to lower your atp cuz u would out damage any other gunner with twin handguns or other gun period
3.nobody complains about wartecher being the only fighter that can't use slicers
4.moatoob guns hit hard so
5. there's no issue if they gave you the pistol tho why can you wear a stormline and not use the weapon baffles me


It's always smart to remember to explain your ideas or reasons to their fullest when posting, otherwise no one has a clue what you're babbling about o.o

BTW, slicers do not deal range damage, they deal melee damage. Furthermore, I don't see what that has anything to do with whether or not fighgunners should receive access to any S rank range weapons.

[McLaughlin]

All I'm saying is, it'd be nice to have something nice looking to pair with my S Rank Sabers/Daggers.

Giving us no S Rank ranged weaponry turns us into one-dimensional, watered-down Fortefighters.

Regardless, the majority of people here tow the party line and just quote (which is a TOS violation, by the way) the flat out, "No," response. There's clearly no debate to be had here.

[xennec]

On 2008-01-05 19:42, Africa wrote:

3.nobody complains about wartecher being the only fighter that can't use slicers



That's because we get whips and most WT prefer whip over slicer. No other melee class can use whip.

[KamiSori]

On 2008-01-05 22:52, Obsidian_Knight wrote:
All I'm saying is, it'd be nice to have something nice looking to pair with my S Rank Sabers/Daggers.

Giving us no S Rank ranged weaponry turns us into one-dimensional, watered-down Fortefighters.

Regardless, the majority of people here tow the party line and just quote (which is a TOS violation, by the way) the flat out, "No," response. There's clearly no debate to be had here.



i dont know man, i think the ruby bullet looks better than any S rank handguns so far. i do like the vipers but the 11 and 12* do not impress me.

but, since i dont use single handguns on FI i do agree that it would be nice to have a good looking crossbow or mechgun on my left hand, the A ranks look dull and lame.

[Hrith]

It may be true that "Fighgunner is fine as it is" but:

-Fighgunner is the second best class to use RCSMs (out of 9), so it would make sense to let us use them at S grade level.
-Fighgunner did not get any new S grade weapons in AoI, while PT, FF, WT and GT all gained several (not to mention the unjustified S grade weapon selection of AF and AT).

[Rayokarna]

On 2008-01-06 02:07, Hrith wrote:
It may be true that "Fighgunner is fine as it is" but:

-Fighgunner is the second best class to use RCSMs (out of 9), so it would make sense to let us use them at S grade level.
-Fighgunner did not get any new S grade weapons in AoI, while PT, FF, WT and GT all gained several (not to mention the unjustified S grade weapon selection of AF and AT).



-Fighgunner already have 5 Srank weapon classes at there disposal, it would make no sense to give them anymore especially if there melee first, range second.

-I wouldn't expect Fighgunner to have another S Rank class weapon, when the have the same amount as FG, WT and more that FT. The reason why P, WT and GT got a boost in S ranks anyway cause they had very few in the first place if you could remember PT having none and WT only having 2. Fighgunner is as fine as it is.

To be honest, they went a bit *coughunderstatementcough* over board with the Arco so that a fair point.

I can under stand why WT got S Rank wand cause they have the ability to nuke when an FT or AT(When they find out they have techs in the first place XD) are not there. You should be lucky Fighgunner got lvl 30 bullets in the first place. You can pretty much solo everywhere with just that.

[Iduno]

I voted twin handguns but now I think single would be better as they would'nt be particularly overpowered but would be a nice thing to have for the gunner side (although I've always thought twin handguns suit fighgunners the most dunno why they just seem right)

[Hrith]

On 2008-01-06 02:25, Rayokarna wrote:
-Fighgunner already have 5 Srank weapon classes at there disposal, it would make no sense to give them anymore especially if there melee first, range second.Five, yeah.
Protranser has 10, Fortefighter has 8, Guntecher has 6.
What justifies that these classes have so many?

-Fortefighter got +10 skills +10 bullets and slicers, that was enough of an upgrade. Giving them S grade twin sabers was incredibly stupid.
-Protranser got +10 bullets, the highest stat increase (especially ATP) and EX traps, they should not have any S grade weapon.
-Guntecher got +10 bullets, +10 attack techs, +20 support techs, TCSM, RCSM and three of their original S grade weapons are exclusive, so even if they had just four, it would still be three that no other class can use. S grade bows make sense, but RCSMs, not in the least.

I could go on like that; Fighgunner and Fortegunner were left out for S grade weapon selection.

[Shishi-O]

rcsm, would be kinda nice s-ranked on Fi http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

imo the difference in function differs with rcsm grade



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shishi-O on 2008-01-06 03:39 ]</font>

[_K1_]

Heh, you want really Fighgunners to experience the joy of hunting S rank xbows and mechguns? You must hate them all.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: _K1_ on 2008-01-06 04:51 ]</font>

[MSAksion]

S Rank guns for Figunner! RIDICULOUS.

Those Figunner guns all 4 of them are GUNTECHER Specialties. M-gun, Crossbow, Dualies and Pistol. Giving S rank specialty guns with Melee ATP to back them up and there'd be no purpose to the GUNTECHER if a FIGUNNER had the guns and the swords to be the ultimate all in ones.

SHEESH Figunners are great all in ones. S rank multi-hitting fast melee and S rank firepower? Who would play anything else?

[Sekani]

On 2008-01-06 05:27, MSAksion wrote:
S Rank guns for Figunner! RIDICULOUS.

Those Figunner guns all 4 of them are GUNTECHER Specialties. M-gun, Crossbow, Dualies and Pistol. Giving S rank specialty guns with Melee ATP to back them up and there'd be no purpose to the GUNTECHER if a FIGUNNER had the guns and the swords to be the ultimate all in ones.

SHEESH Figunners are great all in ones. S rank multi-hitting fast melee and S rank firepower? Who would play anything else?


Fighgunner and guntecher are on opposite sides of the spectrum as far as playstyle is concerned. If you really think one is going to replace the other....

And what's this about "S rank firepower"? With the exception of maybe the Psycho Wand and Agito Repca, none of our current S-ranks are head-and-shoulders above their 9-star counterparts. It's all aesthetics.

I just want to equip Hyper Vipers as a fighgunner. Apparently that's asking too much, so I'll just go back to spamming Tornado Dance since that's all I'm good for.

[Krisan]

Honestly, there is waaaay too much angst in this thread. >_>

Moving on though.. I find it funny people are shooting down Dual Handguns, when an A-Rank Dualie in the future beats the pants off all known S-Rank's in that category anyway.. What the hell difference would it make other than allowing Figh to get some pretty aesthetics? Besides, why the hells does GT have exclusive rights to their S anyway? Other classes have just as much use for them as GT, so I find this a tad strange..

Also.. RCSM's is an awful suggestion. No offense meant to Pillian, but Figh's should not be able to Stun things. That's a huge change compared to Dualies, which wouldn't hurt anyone and make a lot of people happy. Besides, Sega -obviously- only wants the new AotI weapon types to be S exclusively to the new AotI classes.. otherwise, one of our other classic expert types would have an S in one of the new weapons somewhere, eh..? (I just noticed GT get's an S in Shadoog's.. Why? I can't think of any reason they'd ever use one.. Oh well, maybe it isn't so crazy after all, but I still wouldn't want Figh to have them, they're already too similar to Acro as it is, and other than a Slicer, Shadoog, and the speed boost there is little to no reason to switch to AF when FiG does pretty much the same thing.) And to whomever mentioned Crossbows.. well, those probably SHOULD stay exclusive to GT, since they make very active use of em. (Moreso than any other class I've seen.) So no, probably not a good idea. (Among other reasons as well..)

And to Sekani who just posted above me.. Yes, I too would like Hyper Viper's on my Figh, just for the visuals. It'd suit my character perfectly, but the only way she can use them currently is to switch to GT, which would -not- suit her at all. (I have another character better suited to Guntecher and she probably won't even use her dualies much if at all on the other hand, ironically enough.. It'll be mostly crossbows for her.)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Krisan on 2008-01-06 08:23 ]</font>

[pikachief]

imagine if 3 different classes could all use wands!? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif Or if 4 different classes could all use single sabers!?

OR 5 CLASSES USING SINGLE HANGUNS!!!???? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif MADNESS!

ok im done being stupid kthnxbye

[Deissa]

On 2008-01-06 08:18, Krisan wrote:
Besides, Sega -obviously- only wants the new AotI weapon types to be S exclusively to the new AotI classes.. otherwise, one of our other classic expert types would have an S in one of the new weapons somewhere, eh..?


Sorta like how Guntecher can't use S rank RCSMs, hmm :p

[Krisan]

On 2008-01-06 08:22, Cadamar wrote:

On 2008-01-06 08:18, Krisan wrote:
Besides, Sega -obviously- only wants the new AotI weapon types to be S exclusively to the new AotI classes.. otherwise, one of our other classic expert types would have an S in one of the new weapons somewhere, eh..?


Sorta like how Guntecher can't use S rank RCSMs, hmm http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I just noticed that, and corrected it. I have no idea why Sega gave them an S in RCSM's though, since it seems absolutely trivial to them. o_O TCSM's maybe sure, but RCSM's? Who'd bother?

Eh besides that, that seems to be the sole exception to the rule. No one else got anything.

[majan]

fighgunners + S rank guns = IMBA, and here's why.

though this issue was sort of fixed by tenora twin pistols having enormous ATP,comparable to the S rank GRM ones,but they have very low PP,so it isnt exactly like fighgunners have some kinda advantage.

if however they were to get S ranks in twin pistols or crossbows,they'd have a lot of power at their disposal. they already have the highest ATP modifier of any class that can use guns,so if they received as good guns as fortgunners and guntechers then they'd be even more overpowered than they already are. people dont realize just how powerful a fighgunner is having a slicer or single dagger in one hand and a crossbow in the other hand with yak zagenga. there's all this talk about other classes in hte game being unbalanced and too strong and whatever but people often overlook the lost little secrets of a fighgunner's true power. yeah they dont have as much ATP as an acrofighter and a fortefighter but they are the only class in the game that can use a single dagger and crossbow combo effectively while being able to balance that with a medium range twin pistol attack along iwth a veyr generous melee selection,even if they trade a little ATP for all this versatility they still have enough to dish out a heavy amount of damage,especially with a hard/power charge or a solid/knight if needed.

fighgunners fine the way it is.

[pokefiend]

On 2008-01-06 08:18, pikachief wrote:
imagine if 3 different classes could all use wands!? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif Or if 5 different classes could all use single sabers!?

fixed. FFs, figs, PTs, ATs, and AFs all have access to S rank single sabers http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Ail]

handguns are completely useless
twin handguns are perfect for flying enemyes and bosses
machineguns are nice but..
i woud be the happier fighgunner with S rank xbows...

anyway.. is just a dream..



(maybe in a future master class o.o; )

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ail on 2008-01-06 15:45 ]</font>

[KyEmo]

The only S rank range weapon I could see plausable are RCMS.

[Shishi-O]

now if only we could get acro speed http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Rashiid]

None. You still have a weapon no other class can have.

[Leahcim]

Well this is going to hell... lol

Looking at the Poll though, seems lie people would want the Twin Handguns.
I don't see a problem with this seeing as how it would be more of a perk than a selling point.

[Akaimizu]

On 2008-01-06 08:25, Krisan wrote:

On 2008-01-06 08:22, Cadamar wrote:

On 2008-01-06 08:18, Krisan wrote:
Besides, Sega -obviously- only wants the new AotI weapon types to be S exclusively to the new AotI classes.. otherwise, one of our other classic expert types would have an S in one of the new weapons somewhere, eh..?


Sorta like how Guntecher can't use S rank RCSMs, hmm http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I just noticed that, and corrected it. I have no idea why Sega gave them an S in RCSM's though, since it seems absolutely trivial to them. o_O TCSM's maybe sure, but RCSM's? Who'd bother?

Eh besides that, that seems to be the sole exception to the rule. No one else got anything.



I definitely agree there. The problem is, the Guntecher selected weapon specialties precisely class with the use of RCSMs. On the other hand, it gives the GT another completely different build, but it has yet been tested for effectiveness. That is, if they decide to actually use their level 20 attack techs (of which it used to be a joke to even attempt attack techs with them) in conjunction with the RCSMs.

Or if they decide to use those instead of crossbows. However, the RCSM would have to deal better damage, on a single enemy, than the crossbow for people to generally consider it. It obviously is no where near as effecient at spreading SEs as the Crossbow.

Figunner really doesn't need the S rank Twin Handguns at all, really. Of course it has the looks department, but the Figunner stats supercede the necessity of S rank Twin Gunnies. The GTs have S rank Twin Handguns, in general, to counter their low ATP, in comparison. And while it is true, there is an A-rank coming that makes the current S-ranks useless in comparison, I'd say they'll fix that when the new S-ranks come out, after it, and maybe re-adjust the old S-ranks.

Still, S-rank Twin Handguns were an advertised special of the GT class ever since the class was invented. If they mean that much to you, be a guntecher. That's precisely what I did. You get other nice S-classes the GT never gets, might as well get them and be happy.

I mean, you can really tell when your class is just being dumped on when so many cases people ask for GT specialties but don't want to be a GT for them.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-01-07 06:46 ]</font>

[Chaosgyro]

Gotta love it when people put on blinders to their own idiocy. "Fighgunners can't get S guns, that would just break the game. Besides, A guns grinded are more powerful than S guns anyway." ....WTF?! This is on par with the stupidity present in the logic of "Double sabers are n00b weapons and are often outperformed by (insert type). Oh, and figh's shouldn't get changed at all because they can use double sabers." Crazy mofos http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

I think it's going to take a little longer before people get it into their heads that 10 and 11 star weapons are going the way of the dinosaur. No, they aren't going to be rare and, yes, they are going to be eclipsed by new, special 9 stars. The game is moving into a higher plateau. 13-15* (and to a lesser extent 12*) are going to be the S ranks that matter, and in order to have an A rank in a weapon mean anything past lvl 100 there are going to be some mighty powerful A ranks introduced. If that gets you all angsty about your current S rank: tough shit. The bonus to it is being able to use those shiny S ranks long before anyone else will be able to grab a twin ruby, DB saber, or whatnot.

[Akaimizu]

And what of your argument supports the fact that figunners should get those S ranks? It's not about breaking the game, it's about people asking for S-ranks that were the main specialty of another class and specifically not of the class you picked. You know what you chose from the beginning. Any other logic out of this you might as well give every class S-ranks from now on. Get rid of the whold point of S ranks entirely.

Why did Guntechers get S-rank bows? Simple. Because they realized that the class fits into the low ATP techer role since they have the 2nd lowest ATP. Now, they've never made to really outdamage the others, but they do get help, from time to time, to keep them (in the game) when it comes to their dependancy on ATP-using weapons. And to better fit a role now that they completely readjusted SEs.

I wouldn't go calling people idiots, because that basically assumes we know all about parts of the game nobody should know. Plus, the argument argues itself. The Why doesn't even supercede the Why not. Now if certain weapons should be demoted a certain number of stars, in the future, that's another thing; but I hardly believe that requires a total class adjustment.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-01-07 07:20 ]</font>

[Ahkaskar]

I'd rather see Fighgunners with A rank rifles or bows. They don't particularly need S rank guns, but I'd like to see them with longer range weapons. Also, Slicers barely count as a ranged weapon. Sure, they throw a projectile, but a ranged weapon is something that you can go into first person and aim with.

Actually, I think I'd like to see Fighgunners with S rank crossbows.

[Golto]

Before you guys get all updity about srank twin handguns do yourself a favor and compare Deathmaker +10 to Twin Tornado +5.

[Akaimizu]

S rank Twin handguns, currently, are normally for two purposes, appearance and people who have a hard time getting the top As grinded to 10. Frankly, my luck of grinding usually stops at 4 or 5, even with +9 and +10 grinders.

Still, the current state of statistics for them means the whole discussion really is based on appearance of the S ranks, more than anything. Simply, the sexy guns. It's also one reason why (even though the stats are lower) the Hyper Viper seems to cost more than the Tornados, to buy. As most consider them the sexiest S-rank twins. And the fact that less people have them due to *not* running the A-rank version of the Mother brain as much as people run the S-rank of it.

Statwise, S rank duals will not do anything to help the Figunner from a gameplay aspect. But I sure as heck went Guntecher to get those S-ranks because well, Tynselle without use of the S-rank Twins would just be completely out of the whole theme. So if your character theme is more set for Figunner, then that is the correct class for you, and there's plenty of sexy weapons for you.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-01-07 07:58 ]</font>

[Leahcim]

On 2008-01-07 07:44, Golto wrote:
Before you guys get all updity about srank twin handguns do yourself a favor and compare Deathmaker +10 to Twin Tornado +5.



Exactly why i don't think it would be big deal if Fighgunners got S rank Twin Handguns... Its a perk, not ground breaking.

[Akaimizu]

But why would you want them in the first place? Wasn't the poll meant for what guns would be most useful as an S-rank for the figunner? If that wasn't the case, then the poll is very skewed in the wrong direction. For which purpose is the poll? I think the direction is going back and forth.

Like I said, I went the guntecher route to follow those guns (main reason), so I don't see why nobody else should. In all other class-adjustments discussed, it was mostly done as a promotion for what tools they should go for to take best advantage to the stats given you, in the new system and with your given gameplay styles. They were hardly adjusted for the reason of class-gets-sexy-looking something.

Besides, S-rank dualies are the only true class-specific *perk*, of your definition, that the GT has.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-01-07 08:30 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-01-07 06:43, Akaimizu wrote:
I definitely agree there. The problem is, the Guntecher selected weapon specialties precisely class with the use of RCSMs. On the other hand, it gives the GT another completely different build, but it has yet been tested for effectiveness. That is, if they decide to actually use their level 20 attack techs (of which it used to be a joke to even attempt attack techs with them) in conjunction with the RCSMs.

Or if they decide to use those instead of crossbows. However, the RCSM would have to deal better damage, on a single enemy, than the crossbow for people to generally consider it. It obviously is no where near as effecient at spreading SEs as the Crossbow.


S-rank shadoogs fit perfectly with Guntecher's specialization in one-handed firearms... nothing else on the menu has penetration + SE + equip a wand. I haven't used one myself but I'd assume Ebrizoke is pretty good at hitting multiple targets per shot against swarms of little guys at short range... they fire pretty rapidly, but the beams come out at funny angles sometimes. Definitely something I notice when wondering if they're more effective than my laser cannon or not.

[Akaimizu]

Actually, I've used them all the time. As an Acrotecher. However, the Acrotecher completely switches hands from the Guntecher. One is a lefty, the other a righty. Plus with the strength of Attack Techs of the Acrotecher, I tend to use the Shadoog a lot more. It's also a nice bit of extra single-mob attack damage while using a Whip.

As a GT, however, all my greatest stuff uses the same hand as what you need to equip the RCSMs on. They take the place of Crossbows, and single-handed gun types, etc. However, if I had a completely different build in which I could use them better, I figure they would be useful. As I said, they don't work with old GT builds, so you kind of have to rearrange to build around them instead. You may toss the use of much of your regular weapons you used to use.

So I did state it does give a new variety to the class, and possibilities of a new build. I've never seen the Ebrizoke, so I never knew there was a RCSM that fires completely differently than the normal ones I've used. As my current build of guntecher, I want my left handed-weapons to be as much under my control as possible, and fire when I want them to.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-01-07 08:43 ]</font>

[Pengfishh]

Won't happen! Wahaha.

[Chaosgyro]

On 2008-01-07 07:11, Akaimizu wrote:
And what of your argument supports the fact that figunners should get those S ranks?

Nothing. My argument was technically neither for nor against. I see no good reason why fighgunners couldn't have S-rank twins, R-mags, or perhaps mechguns, and many reasons why it could be problematic to give them S crossbows.

And actually, I'm not a fighgunner. I have dabbled in Wartecher, Acrofighter, Protranser, and *gasp* Guntecher.

Of course right now I'm left with a bevy of level 1s after the judgment impaired, sleep related events mentioned here. (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=166350&forum=20&start=45)

[Chaosgyro]

I guess we're seeing it a little differently in terms of the GT class then. I don't see anything wrong with there being few GTs. It seems like you're taking the fact that most don't enjoy the playstyle as an insult or something. Personally, I'd rather only have GTs who want to be backline supporters and not people who want to play with flashy twins or crossbows. Down that road lies the problem with acrowhippers that just now seems to be sorting itself out.

S ranks are cool, and they give people something for which to strive. Almost universally, A ranks are (relatively) easily found and maxed. This is the both the heart of what currently makes them better operationally than many S ranks, and what causes them to be so boring. Spam synth some Tenora twins, get one or two of them to 10/10 and suddenly you have nothing further to look forward to. I find it only right that all hybrids should have something to hunt for in each of their disciplines.

[Akaimizu]

I agree they should have something to hunt for, but you act as if Figunners don't have S ranks to hunt for. Then again, they had S ranks to hunt for pre-expansion, so I guess they'd be more likely to have more of them, already. However, I'm a firm believer in playing a class not just for their overall function, but for things you want to use in play.

Not simply for just an overall function and then say, after all the time where it constantly said you didn't have it, I need some flashy something which doesn't exactly promote my class or anything. I play a huge support role, considering the GT was advertised as such, so I took on all the aspects of going to the class with the intentions that I also got access to certain weapons, too. And would see that a strategy around their use would be viable.

The biggest reason for GTs to have more stuff to hunt for, now, is because they had to technically wait for the expansion to start their hunts. Just wait a while, and we'll be in the same boat.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-01-07 11:42 ]</font>

[majan]

well everyone ignored my last post so Ill put it nice and bluntly this time:

it would be very very overpowering if fighgunners got S rank guns because they have the HIGHEST ATP MULTIPLIER OF ANY CLASS USING GUNS IN THE GAME.PERIOD. handing them crossbows or dualies with the highest power would be very unbalanced.

[Akaimizu]

They only ignored the Dual Handgun aspect just because of this really odd decision for a *later* A rank one that's supposed to trump the current S-ranks out there. Still, much of this information is speculative that no better S ranks will become of this soon, or that there wont be stat readjustments. Still, that A rank isn't here, and a lot of other things aren't here. Who knows what other changes are around the corner from that.

There's nothing stating that even better S-rank Dual handguns will not come to the S-rank fold. Especially since it'll be pretty much impossible to *take back* an S-rank from a given class, with regular updates. Then take into consideration, a weapon geared for a class with way less attack power, it would indeed put too much power to a class. There's too much people don't know. But I do know one thing, the hardest thing in the world to do (in this game) is get away with taking away S-class from a class just because they got too strong, in the future. So they have to be very careful who they give additional S-ranks to. Most other things, they could do, could be easily adjusted in the future, with less issues.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-01-07 12:23 ]</font>

[DavidNel]

Meh, I use Xbows mainly, but I really don't care about rares... Heck, I don't even waist my time grinding... Level 1 A ranks FTW!!!

[Kylie]

S rank dualies, no competition for me.

[SStrikerR]

Just wondering, why would people get pissed if we got S rank guns, when you already said that A ranks grinded own them. Why would you be mad? What, we got cool LOOKING guns now? Oh god, someone's gonna pay for this.

A note to all: If sega is planning on giving it to us, oh well, it's their game to add stuff in, not yours. And they probably aren't planning on it at all anyways, so don't get this debate thread locked up.

[Akaimizu]

It's not just about the now, it's the future. Remember what I said about taking back S rank use? If there is one mistake they have the most problems taking back, is a decision based on that in this aspect of the game. Other weapon adjustments, can be adjusted later, just fine. The thing is, balance comes into play. As the game continues further, the dependancy on good higher S-ranks and grinds may become apparent. That means something shared like Figunner on Twin Handguns will definitely over force a balance on GTs to keep them weaker. So Twin Handguns rebalanced for FIs would make them worse for use on a GT.

So in that case, GTs would never see improvements they require, on them once they finally start really putting mobs up there(if the case is that they rebalance those later guns for fG use). Perhaps the other weapons would generally see better future boost, but that would probably be close to the end of the usefulness of Twins in the GT class as their very carefully placed damage/SE balance situated with their other weapons, will be shifted for the worse. Things are not as simple as they seem. As of right now, it's very tough to imagine a compromise.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-01-07 12:51 ]</font>

[majan]

On 2008-01-07 11:49, Akaimizu wrote:
They only ignored the Dual Handgun aspect just because of this really odd decision for a *later* A rank one that's supposed to trump the current S-ranks out there. Still, much of this information is speculative that no better S ranks will become of this soon, or that there wont be stat readjustments. Still, that A rank isn't here, and a lot of other things aren't here. Who knows what other changes are around the corner from that.

There's nothing stating that even better S-rank Dual handguns will not come to the S-rank fold. Especially since it'll be pretty much impossible to *take back* an S-rank from a given class, with regular updates. Then take into consideration, a weapon geared for a class with way less attack power, it would indeed put too much power to a class. There's too much people don't know. But I do know one thing, the hardest thing in the world to do (in this game) is get away with taking away S-class from a class just because they got too strong, in the future. So they have to be very careful who they give additional S-ranks to. Most other things, they could do, could be easily adjusted in the future, with less issues.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-01-07 12:23 ]</font>


fighgunners do practically have s rank dualies since hte tenora ones are so thuggish. low PP balances that a bit though. I for one am discouraged to use them because htey last 3.5 seconds.in short doses though,they indeed are pretty much the fighgunners S rank dualies.

otherwise though if you hand a fighgunner a cubo tuma and a muzzlefever or watever the 11* machinegun is that WILL be more powerful than a grinded 9*....yeah you have on your hands a broken class when in the other hand you have a deva zashi or blackheart or watever the hell else it is. oh,and they can use slicers too,in case things get eggy.

everyone says "why not" give them some S rank guns but there's a reason. it would simply give them entirely too much power. basically itll be the same as it is now with the power of tenora dualies except theyll be 10 times easier to use becasue theyll last twice as long.

I'll reiterate: fighgunners are fine the way they are.

[Golto]

On 2008-01-07 11:38, majan wrote:
well everyone ignored my last post so Ill put it nice and bluntly this time:

it would be very very overpowering if fighgunners got S rank guns because they have the HIGHEST ATP MULTIPLIER OF ANY CLASS USING GUNS IN THE GAME.PERIOD. handing them crossbows or dualies with the highest power would be very unbalanced.



Majan you really should check the stats of grinded and non-grinded twin handguns before you say this and have a better understanding of type % mods. The atp gain by going up in rank with twin handguns is negligible. Factor in how much easier it is to grind a ranks than s ranks it is down right funny the so called 'game breaking overpowering atp' s rank twin handguns are supposed to have. FiG's atp % mod has nothing to do with the weapon's atp stat. The 18 atp increase going from Deathmaker +0 to Hyper Viper +0 would not be multiplied by any types' atp % mod. That 18 more atp is only multiplied by the bullet's atp % and shifta/buff.

Don't let the hardcore GT people try to tell you otherwise. eventhough I don't play as or even like the FiG type s ranks in twin handguns would only make a difference in the looks department not on damage output.

[I-am-Evan]

Yo, lets keep the Guntechers with their unique weapons pallette.
guntechers are amazing the way we are. let us keep our S ranks to ourselves.
Well on second thought. if you think fighgunners should get S rank twin hangun. Guntechers should get 30 skills and double sabers. i think that'd be about fair..

If you can't sense my sarcasm well i'm sorry for that.


Fighgunner is a fighting class.
Guntechers are gunners.

S rank guns for guntecher
S rank melee weapons for fighgunner.

lets keep it that way.

[Akaimizu]

That wouldn't be even. Even would be GTs getting S rank Wands. Since it would also give us an S-rank geared towards our secondary like the Figunner would be getting. Bows don't count as they're definitely geared as a ranged counterpart complimenting our other guns, but due to low ATP, rifle wasn't considered instead.

[McLaughlin]

On 2008-01-07 13:11, I-am-Evan wrote:
Yo, lets keep the Guntechers with their unique weapons pallette.
guntechers are amazing the way we are. let us keep our S ranks to ourselves.
Well on second thought. if you think fighgunners should get S rank twin hangun. Guntechers should get 30 skills and double sabers. i think that'd be about fair..

If you can't sense my sarcasm well i'm sorry for that.


Fighgunner is a fighting class.
Guntechers are gunners.

S rank guns for guntecher
S rank melee weapons for fighgunner.

lets keep it that way.



Fighgunner is a melee/RANGED class. Which is why we need the RANGER level to play it. Giving us an S Rank RANGED weapon shouldn't be that much of a stretch.

This is going to degenerate into a, "Fighgunners have an exclusive weapon class. Fuck them," topic anyway. I'm not going to bother.

[Chaosgyro]

A fighgunner with an amazing 15* twingun will not necessitate a rebalace that hurts guntechers. In the first place, the two classes use the guns in different ways for different purposes. A GT will be relying on theirs much more than a FG will anyway. FG pretty much just use guns so they can reach out and touch flying enemies, or maybe to throw some status effects - which is based on bullet level anyway. Secondly, a FG is going to be able to do bucketloads more damage with a 15* set of twin sabers or a double saber, so the damage from a 15* twingun won't really rate in most players' minds.

[Akaimizu]

The Dualies can do amazing amounts of damage in the right hands. To tell the truth, yes they would be able to do more damage with Twin Sabers or a Double Saber, but what would that matter if the Dualies are all they need to destroy them? The argument basically still doesn't require them to gain the S-ranks. But they'd more likely become a premier Dual-gun user because at that time, they can stand in the back and do much (effectively) that they could do in melee.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-01-07 13:34 ]</font>

[I-am-Evan]

On 2008-01-07 13:25, Chaosgyro wrote:
FG pretty much just use guns so they can reach out and touch flying enemies, or maybe to throw some status effects - which is based on bullet level anyway. Secondly, a FG is going to be able to do bucketloads more damage with a 15* set of twin sabers or a double saber, so the damage from a 15* twingun won't really rate in most players' minds.



If thats all you think FG would need them for.
why S rank? A rank does that too.

[RegulusHikari]

I'm sorry to all you GT fanatics out there (I love playing GT, BTW), but your class probably saw the biggest buff in AoI. Not only that, but the boss drops have REALLY started to lean in GT's favor.

I'm more in favor of FI getting a new melee S rank than a gun, anyway. GT and WT both got nice boosts (stat, PA, and S rank wise). Fighgunner got A rank slicers. Let's take a look, shall we?

Fighgunner
Doublesaber (exclusive)
Sabers (not exclusive)
Daggers (not exclusive)

Guntecher
Twin Handguns (exclusive)
Machinegun (exclusive)
Crossbow (exclusive)
Bow (not exclusive, but best utilization)

I'd like to see S rank slicers or spears on FI, but it probably won't happen. Besides, that nice class called PT basically throws the concept of exclusivity out of the window.

[I-am-Evan]

Don't be sorry i enjoyed my "big buff" for AoI. and im sure everyone of all classes can too. Lv. 30 buffs ftw!

[Akaimizu]

Those stat adjustments were more of a necessity than anything. I wouldn't use those as a way to basically say something should get something else. When you talk about size of buffs, consider where they came from, in the first place.

[SolomonGrundy]

Guntechers have the following S ranks

shadoogs: shared with aF (a mistake IMO)
twin handguns: exlusive
crossbows: exclusive
machine gun: exclusive
Bows: shared with FT
Pistols: shared with fG, and AT

That's a LOT of exlusives...I don't think anyone else has more. So the question is, which of the above guns really makes sense for the FiG job? I'd have to say twin handguns.

but by the way, I don't think FiG *needs* any S rank guns, the job operates fine as it is.

[Akaimizu]

Then again, if you count the number of complete S ranks, the GT only has 1 more of them. It's no big deal. But once you share them, the balance adds another class to consider what they do with them. I'm just saying, be careful what you ask for. As of right now, both GT and FI, for mixed classes, have no real S rank in their secondary function.

[panzer_unit]

Bows & Handguns: also yoinked by Protranser... but I'd happily choose all weapon classes at A-rank if it meant getting stats on par with Fighgunner and Acrofighter. Being able to selling off all my S-rank materials and boards would net me a fortune and I'd be rocking 8*+10 Kubara or 9*+10 brand-name gear (and hello set bonuses!) on everything in short order. Instead I need to set myself up with ten types of of top-tier equipment to hold my own against all the other hybrids.

If you think of S-rank shadoogs as just another of Guntecher's guns they make plenty of sense on that class. You don't need a whole different build, you pull it out along with a healstick or debuff wand when you're facing down a bunch of monsters who are suckers for a penetrating shot. It'll do lots of damage and SE provided the thing manages to fire on a decent angle.

I think having some kind of S-rank gun access wouldn't be uncalled for on Fighgunner ... it's one of the few hybrids that has no S-ranks from its secondary class but Crossbow or Twins would be too much. You don't gain a lot of ATP or PP on thsoe weapon classes, but there's a big jump in ATA which you can't make up for with grinds and is probably the most important stat as you go up... ATA when shooting needs all the help it can get compared to melee, and going from 9* to 11~12* is a pretty big boost.

Mechguns on the other hand have much more ATA% on the skills, and less ATP on the guns. That wouldn't be a bad give-away (in terms of upsetting statistical balance) to Fighgunner if they were going to get a S-rank gun.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-01-07 14:31 ]</font>

[Chaosgyro]

On 2008-01-07 13:30, I-am-Evan wrote:

On 2008-01-07 13:25, Chaosgyro wrote:
FG pretty much just use guns so they can reach out and touch flying enemies, or maybe to throw some status effects - which is based on bullet level anyway. Secondly, a FG is going to be able to do bucketloads more damage with a 15* set of twin sabers or a double saber, so the damage from a 15* twingun won't really rate in most players' minds.



If thats all you think FG would need them for.
why S rank? A rank does that too.






I'm just in the camp that is thinking "why not?". Heck no FG doesn't need S rank twin guns! FG is a damn awesome class without it, and I haven't heard anyone say otherwise. However, S ranks are neat and allow for a certain amount of character progression that just can't be had with A ranks in the current game. If ST starts coming out with more unique and interesting rare A ranks (like the upcoming Max Attack PSO weps) then I'll withdraw all of my support for extra S ranks for just about everyone.

...well no that's not true, I'd like a class with both S twin claw and S twin saber that isn't fF http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

P.S. "interesting, rare A ranks" need not be as powerful as 10 and 11* weapons, mind you I'm not complaining that they are, but as long as new weapons are unique then I think almost everyone will be satisfied

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chaosgyro on 2008-01-07 14:42 ]</font>

[RegulusHikari]

On 2008-01-07 13:53, Akaimizu wrote:
When you talk about size of buffs, consider where they came from, in the first place.



Absolutely, GT and WT DESERVED their buffs, I just think FI deserves a little more than slicers (and R-Mags, which I think are junk anyway).

[Golto]

I did a test of damage being a GT and using twin handguns using lvl 40 dark bullets against lvl 110 light monsters w/o any special defenses and being non-buffed.

Deathmaker +0 216 atp/ 395-413 using this as a baseline
Deathmaker +10 259 atp/ 406-426 roughly 13 more damage
Hyper Viper +0 234 atp/ 399-419 roughly 6 more damage lol
Twin Tornado +0 246 atp/ 401-423 roughly 10 more damage

So w/o buffs lvl 40 elemental bullets only gain on average *6* more damage per hit going from Deathmaker +0 to Hyper Viper +0.

Since FiG's only have lvl 30 bullets the increase would be a bit smaller. But anyone crying about 6-10 more damage per hit making FiGs broken is not looking at the numbers. If you want to test the damage difference as a FiG compare Deathmaker +0 to Deathmaker +5 to emulate Deathmaker + 0 compared to Hyper Viper +0.

There's no guarantee we will see 15* twin handguns, 13* might be the highest we get in AOI online and those won't have that much more atp than highly grinded 9*.

[Marik]

I think they should get S rank Twin Handguns and Single Handguns since Fortefighters took their S rank Twin Sabers and Single Saber.

[beatrixkiddo]

"Took" implies that Fighgunner no longer has those. They still have them, so why do they deserve more?

[Marik]

Why not? Look at how many S ranks Fortefighter have. 6 two handed and 2 single for a total of 8. Fighgunner only has 3 two handed and 2 single for a total of 5. Giving them 2 more wouldn't hurt.

[Jasam]

Becuse SOME people picked FI 'cus they loved the idea of having S-Rank Twin Sabers...

It would at least give FI a little more satisfaction on playing their class... I mean... I'm wondering why I'm NOT a FF these days... More damage, my fav weapon at S rank...

[Chaosgyro]

My dream is a class with S in all the twin weapons: sabers, daggers, claws, and handguns. I'm not too broken up about daggers and could trade them for knuckles I suppose.

That would make a pretty decent FI I think. Sort of like the anti-AF. Acrofighter gets single weapon mastery while FI gets all the twins.

[Nai_Calus]

The anti-AF is PT. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Actually, FI is a better candidate for anti-PT. AFs have fucktastic gun selection, number one reason I don't play the class even though the stats are supposedly 'better'. Faster melee, more ATA, nearly the same ATP as FI- Oh, wait, no crossbows? No spears? I can't use my Grand Crosses anymore? I'll pass, thanks.

But most of what I do with FI involves Blackhearts with Gravity Strike paired with Cubo Dunga/Mamba with Yak Megiga.

Double Sabers are cute, but other weapon classes do the same things just as well or better. Sure, I can use Tornado Dance. I can also use Dus Majarra or Cross Hurricane.

Screw S-rank guns, though S-rank Crossbows would be nice. What I want are S-rank Spears.

[Winter_of_uno]

Yes, let FI have all guns S, will be a nice addition to their wide range of paddles.

[Leahcim]

On 2008-01-08 04:16, Winter_of_uno wrote:
Yes, let FI have all guns S, will be a nice addition to their wide range of paddles.



Not at all what was said.

What is being said is Fighgunner is a half gunner class that has no s rank guns. The point was to see if one s rank gun was added, what gun would ake the most sense or wanted the most.

[Akaimizu]

On the other hand, the major benefit for giving Figunner S Twin Handguns is that the prices for them would shoot through the floor. They'd drop quickly because a lot more people would hunt for their stuff. The biggest cause for GT S ranks being not common and sell for high, is because of a lack of searching for them.

Would be nice that I wouldn't end up spending my entire savings for each S rank I come across.

[Ahkaskar]

On 2008-01-07 11:38, majan wrote:

it would be very very overpowering if fighgunners got S rank guns because they have the HIGHEST ATP MULTIPLIER OF ANY CLASS USING GUNS IN THE GAME.PERIOD. handing them crossbows or dualies with the highest power would be very unbalanced.


Well, I have a friend who was matching type and character levels with me. We were both playing cast females, and his fortegunner always had an edge on my ATP and crit rate.

[Golto]

Character's ATP has nothing to do to with increasing the damage increase by going up in weapon rank. Only weapon element %, pa %, and weapon atp effects the change. You're still adding the same amout of atp from character stats and arm units.

Lets say your FiG character's atp + unit atp is 1200.
You test Deathmaker +0 216 atp and Hyper Viper +0 234 atp using lvl 30 dark twin bullets.

Deathmaker +0 total atp =2265.6
Hyper Viper +0 total atp =2294.4
Not counting element % that would be an increase of 28.8 atp.

Now lets look at GT 1000 atp lvl 40 dark twin bullets

Deathmaker +0 total atp =2067.2
Hyper Viper +0 total atp =2097.8

Not counting element % that would be an increase of 30.6 atp.


FiG's actually would see a little smaller damage improvement going from a rank twin to s rank than GT already do. Thanks to the lvl 40 pa bullet cap and its higher element %.

If you really want to make FiGs borken give them lvl 40 pa cap for bullets. Giving them s rank in any gun they have a ranks in won't make their damage jump as much as some people are trying to make it seem to.

[amtalx]

How 'bout we stop trying to run a train on the class system and leave it the way it is hmm?

[Ryoki]

All of you, quit whining. Seriously, all I hear is "Oh my god, no, Figh's shouldn't get s rank guns." What about acrotecher? They don't even level hunter at all! And yet they get S rank sabers and daggers? HOW is that fair?

S rank guns hardly add any damage, and basically just look cooler. Why do all of you disagree so fiercely to Fighs getting at least ONE s rank ranged weapon? We're one of the few classes that doesn't get a S rank to pair up with the two S rank single handed weapons we get.

But I'm used to this kind of response from this forum. I don't even feel like trying.

I voted Crossbow, btw. But I know that's simply a dream. IF we ever got something, it would probably be a type of handgun.

[SJW89]

ZOMG they definitely deserve S-rank Grenade Launchers.

[chibiLegolas]

In my mind, FiG is mainly a melee class with mobile range access for backup. One could use the range aspect of FiG as a main type, but I doubt that's how they were designed for.
Stating that, they already have plenty of S rank access, plus EXCLUSIVE rights to a melee TYPE.
They don't really need an S rank range weapon. Giving them one is purely for looks and IMO, they don't deserve them when they have other cool S rank access.

BTW, giving FiG's even a S rank handgun makes them even more closer to what AF can use.

[Leahcim]

On 2008-01-08 13:43, SJW89 wrote:
ZOMG they definitely deserve S-rank Grenade Launchers.



Useless comment

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I'd figure that a FG would outdamage a FI with Twin Pistols at the max on both classes since FG has lv 40 and FI only has lv 30, and hence, gets more Att % from the higher lv'd bullets. But yeah, I'm horrible at math, and it gives me a huge headache. =/

[Shishi-O]

thank god master classes will kill this argument dead.

[Leahcim]

On 2008-01-08 21:26, Shishi-O wrote:
thank god master classes will kill this argument dead.



No, it wont. No Master classes will be mixing Ranged and Melee S ranks. Unless Sega really has broken their game.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Leahcim on 2008-01-08 22:23 ]</font>

[Syl]

On 2008-01-08 22:22, Leahcim wrote:

On 2008-01-08 21:26, Shishi-O wrote:
thank god master classes will kill this argument dead.



No, it wont. No Master classes will be mixing Ranged and Melee S ranks. Unless Sega really has broken their game.



But then again neither of you know anything about master classes. No one does besides SEGA


On 2008-01-08 13:34, Ryoki wrote:

S rank guns hardly add any damage, and basically just look cooler. Why do all of you disagree so fiercely to Fighs getting at least ONE s rank ranged weapon? We're one of the few classes that doesn't get a S rank to pair up with the two S rank single handed weapons we get.



Sure, that may not be true for now... but I'm sure there'll be a noticeable stat difference in weapons going from 13*+ because they'll most likely be S rank still.

[Chaosgyro]

Right here (http://psupedia.info/Phantasy_Star_Portable) is a potential precursor to what we could see in master classes. I'm sure it's not exact, but the Acromaster in PSPortable does show precedent for melee and ranged S ranks.

[beatrixkiddo]

No, no no nononono. PSPortable is offline (aside from local co-op), so you should not assume the classes in it will be anything remotely near the master classes when they go live.

[Chaosgyro]

I'm sure it's not exact...

It's not about showing the specifics, it's about the precedent. Instead of saying "hey, we're going to get these things" I'm saying "STs collective brain works like this...".

[Golto]

Don't try to bring in the psp master types weapon selection into this topic. AOI online master types won't have the same weapon selection.

[Ryoki]

lol, laser pannon is a weapon in PSU PORTABLE?!?!?


They actually took my pannon cannon idea? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gifOOOO

[Winter_of_uno]

Yeah, it just ain't fair, I know. FI w/o S guns and PT w/o Rod, Wand and Card (FO 5 req anyone?).
I think FI is mainly a melee who should be happy to have ranged weapons to choose from other than that potato gun FF to use against flying mobs. Furthermore, with paddles FI have a fully exclusive weapon.
But idm really, FI can have all of their weps S just like PT has all S now. Looks better to have a full palette of S weps when you're idling in a lobby for a week, I tell ya.

[Androse_Sye]

Well i think they should at least gave the Fighgunner class S-Rank Twin and single handgun(s)

[Akaimizu]

I would say, if they were to give FIs an s-rank in their secondary; why not everybody? Wartecher, I believe, is the main simple hybrid with a true S-rank secondary; however that class is totaly balanced as half war, half tech. Most other hybrids don't have that ratio. FIs still mostly rely on Fighter tools for their attack, just like GTs still mostly rely on guns for their attack.

Protransers are also supposedly quite balanced, but in even more areas, and they get S-ranks and/or EXs in stuff that they are supposedly balanced between.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-01-10 14:17 ]</font>

[megamegamega]

I actually wouldn't mind seeing Guntecher get a S-Rank taken away from them, they're the only class that has 3 S-ranks exclusive to them(I think? Can't remember).

[SolomonGrundy]

Let's see

Guntecher is a Gunner techer with S rank FO weapons (bow)

Wartecher is a mixed Hunter techer with S rank FO weapons (wand)

Figunner is a mixed Hunter gunner with no S rang Ranger weapons. It's not surprise to me that folks are wanting more.

Just to play devils advocate though - they are the only job with access to double sabers of ANY rank. Don't the folks who play figunner realize this is unfair to all the other melee types? Even Fortefighter can't use double sabers...

Acro types are mixed in a weird way - I'm almost inclined to NOT call them hybrids. They are more like specialty jobs. I personally believe they were both created to validate the choice of playing a human race character