Sega pls lets us Grind the PSO way

[Marlec]

After having the horrible way of grinding which could cost you your weapon to going over to just decreasing the grind level if it fails, its still not fun to grind.

I liked the way we grinded in PSO where we found grinders in the field, its much more fun to find grinder +1 or +2 then just have it added to the weapon, do you agree ?? maybe if enuff of get behind the idea Sega could change it ?? again :/

your thoughts please.

[l_Will_l]

Na what we have now is much better. If this was pso grinding. rare weps wouldnt have been rare before aoi since no one broke anything. and now everyone would have all 10/10 S rank weps if it was like that. so no i hope they dont make grinding like pso. lets keep some items rare

[Dhylec]

I think the current grind system is a world better then the previous. Losing a good weapon is painful & discouraging. The new system makes sure that doesn't happen. The worse you get is back to square one- the pre-grind stats.

When you grind, you are gambling. Gamble should have risk & reward. You only want reward, that's a bit unfair.

[Tokagero]

what they said http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif
and if they did that it would pretty much completely elimate using A rank weapons because most people only use them for there high grinded stats since it's easier and cheaper to grind A ranks than to grind S ranks

[Mystral]

Someone also seems to forget that if this were PSO grinding, each grind would only give +2 ATP and no PP at all.

I think without exception every weapon in the game gains better stats than that for any grind under the current system.

[PALRAPPYS]

I say they decrease the grind rates slightly and make our weapons not decrease when they break, but we still keep them. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[l_Will_l]

lol Mystral we didnt have PP in PSO. you could use any wep without running out. so of course we wouldnt get a pp gain when grinding a pso wep

[ilovetypemoon]

I'm sure everyone has thought about this every time they fail grinds (1->2, 9->10 especially >>). I don't think grinding should be a foolproof process but I really really really really wish they upped the success rate a bit. Very High chance should be in the 90% chance range and High should be around 80%. Also, the percentage should start higher in the lower grinds (1 - 5) and start decreasing as you reach the top. Having the same failure rate going from 1 to 2 and 4 to 5 is stupid in my opinion.

P.S. GODDAMMIT I BROKE MY RANPEGI 5 TIMES TODAY!!! ASDSFGDFGSDFGFEASDTG$W#^%Y#%^EYW%$%ETRYSDFGGSDFG G VSDFG /anger

[Jife_Jifremok]

We're dealing with improving our weapons. There should be risk, but I still hate how it depends entirely on chance. That's what a casino is for. If only we could kick Lady Luck out of the smithy...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jife_Jifremok on 2008-01-05 13:40 ]</font>

[Reven]

Perhaps they should come out with a uber-rare item that prevents the item from losing it's grind if it breaks but doesn't increase the level. A grind protection item of some sort. It would have to be really rare though.

[Powder Keg]

I don't mind the way it is now. Grinding in PSO was easy, but the weapon power didn't go up very much.

Some weapons in this game (Look at the Agito Repca for example) gain an insane amount of ATT and PP per grind. I hated the previous method where your weapon would break, but this way is fine, and in the long run, everyone will have different types of even the same weapon.

[VanHalen]

PSO grinding didn't really give you alot of stats when you used them. In this game you can get a B rank weapon, grind it, and it will have comparable stats to S rank weaponry. Plus there has to be some risk if you want a reward.

[Marlec]

I understand wat you mean about the way PSO added so little ATP and such but finding a middle ground would be good plan.

Leaving the current grinding stats as they are but just make grinders a 9 or 10 star item so you wont have many and must be careful with using them plus have it that they can fail but just dont ruin your weapon at all, grinders in PSO were not easy to come by, when i found one i would save them for only my favourite weapons, adding grinders to armour would be a nice idea too i think.

[Powder Keg]

lol wat?

Grinders were incredibly easy to find in PSO.

[Mystral]

Re: chance, it does go down as you grind higher naturally. Take the same bonus grinder all the way from 0/10 to 10/10, it does steadily go down, just that the ranges are 20% wide each (i.e., high is 60% to 80%, I believe).

Re: grind protection items, I heartily disagree. No matter what you do with them, it'll end poorly, just look at the multitude of "free" MMOs that cash shop in no-break items for upgrades. Nobody upgrades without them, and people that funnel hundreds of dollars in to the game have vastly superiour equipment.

Oddly, I must have been playing a different PSO than you guys did, I found grinders all over the place and whenever I got an item I liked (Soul Eater, Red ..., etc), it was instantly maxed out. Sure, it wasn't the flooding of C, B, A grinders that PSU has where you can buy them, but it was certainly far more common than S grinders, which I don't seem to see many bases drop for. Then again, I've always hated the whole "hide behind rarity" arguement, it's the same thing card games like Magic do to explain away immensely powerful cards. "Oh, it's a Rare card, so it can be powerful!"

Regardless, I'm fully behind there being some risk still, no matter what. If there was no possibility of losing your weapon or grind, we'd all just be running around with +10 weapons because we could just keep throwing money at it until we got our item; sure you can argue we can throw money at it now, but it's still at that point where it's an exceedingly large amount of money, as you have to keep making x% items to grind, and if it breaks once you need to start over. Either way.

One thing I can agree with is ablating armour might be an interesting concept, if it were balanced with the already powerful effects of high percentage armours. Though there's no real precedent for such, unless you count adding Def to PSO Mags, anyway.

[Silver_Wyrm]

post change I am happy with the grind system, you risk lowering your weapons max potential, but not losing it. The stat gains from grinding in PSU are much more worth then going pso-way.

[Cry0]

I don't mind the grinding system, it's just a bit harsh (yes, even now still). It should be a bit easier to get to 10, that's all i'm saying. or at least on s rank weapons.

[NGX]

Yes they need to do something, it is too harsh. In another thread someone suggested that there be a supper rare item that is one guaranteed grind. I like that idea very much. Everyone I know that does not want it fixed has several 10/10 weapons and the reason they don't want it fixed is because they wouldn't feel special any more. Some of you act like it would be the end of the world if everyone had 10/10 S ranks. Why, would it really be that bad? Some people don't have millions of Meseta to spend on grinding weapons. Most of the people that have the 10/10's do have the funds and again it goes back to wanting to feel special. The system is not fair to everyone but then again having a super rare guaranteed grind item might not be fair either. Maybe it should go back to the PSO way.

[NGX]

Not to mention when you decrease your max grind by failing it significantly lowers the weapons value.

[RACast_Raiden]

I know how to grind like PSO way...

PLAY PSO! and stay there...

forget that PSU even exists, since you like/love the PSO system anyways



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RACast_Raiden on 2008-01-05 15:44 ]</font>

[NGX]

lol Your funny.

[physic]

yall people who want it easier are wusses. now, at least a + 10 weapon is special, before getting a +99 was just a matter of finding grinders, essentially it wasnt special. Grinding here is a luxury, its totally uneeded, just a way to boost your weapon a bit, the price is you have a chance of failing.
People are never satisfied, before you lost the weapon, so people would rarely grind, every one had +0 on thier good melee weaps, now all of a sudden you have no real reason not to grind, except if you plan to sell, and people act like having a weapom with no bonus is a hard price.
Before yall were satisfied with +0, now all of a sudden a 9/9 weap is crap? foolish

[princejlee]

i think grinding should be restored like pso it wudnt make weapons less rare or overpowered and wats the point of findin the rare agito repca wen u cant even get it to 10? like in pso if u got the tjsword and grinded it to 50 it was really impresive wep unlike in psu. if the dont revamp the grinding system atleast make grinders+10 and 3*luck 100% success rate not 99% or 99.9% thats the least they could do

[SStrikerR]

On 2008-01-05 15:42, RACast_Raiden wrote:

I know how to grind like PSO way...

PLAY PSO! and stay there...

We don't need this crappy comment, and we don't want to lose players, it's just one thing that he doesn't like, get over it, not everybody is insanely in love with this game like you are. It has its good/bad parts, just like any other game.



forget that PSU even exists, since you like/love the PSO system anyways
Him not liking one system doesn't mean he has to drop the game and only play another. And once again, it's only one system he doesn't like, not the whole game. People like YOU are the people I think shouldn't play games, because of your crappy attitudes. We all know that just making a request like this to sega, and on pso-world, isn't gonna change anything, he was just making and idea. Don't act like whatever you people agree sounds good is actually gonna happen, because it isn't. [/rant]


And NGX, we don't need pointless posts like that one there.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RACast_Raiden on 2008-01-05 15:44 ]</font>




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ryan113 on 2008-01-05 16:21 ]</font>

[Silver_Wyrm]

On 2008-01-05 16:07, princejlee wrote:
wats the point of findin the rare agito repca wen u cant even get it to 10? like in pso if u got the tjsword and grinded it to 50 it was really impresive wep unlike in psu.


finding the J-sword ws impressive, grinding it isnt, I filled my whole bank in that game with di-tri grinders. In this game grinding is much more powerful and thus more complicated system/risky. Having a very rare S is somehwat impressive, having a good S with great % is very impressive, now stack a high grind on it in psu and you have a *very* impressive weapon.

and you can grind an agito rep to +10, but it just isnt easy nor is it supposed to be,if it was then there would be nothing special about it and it'd be an easy powerful weapon, sega is trying to make the truely powerful weapons a rarity since rares are easier to acquire in this then pso (imo, the drop rates for the boards are certainly better then the specials in pso)

[NGX]

Another good medium could be decreasing max grind but not making us start back at zero. I would be content with that. The grinding system is just a pain. In my opinion it ruins the game experience to some extent. It's definitely one of the most frustrating things I've ever had to do in any game ever, even more frustrating than beating Jet Moto on professional difficulty.

[BlueInfinity]

Yea I like the new grinding system so, but personally I wish st would shell out some more rares.

[Chaobo99]

You should be able to take your weapons to the shintenku lady and she should be able to restore your weapon...from say 0/5-> 0/10(You should also lose your previous grinds like..)(4/7)->(0/10)..And can only be done once a week or something....or a heaft price...

[Silver_Wyrm]

On 2008-01-05 17:55, Chaobo99 wrote:
You should be able to take your weapons to the shintenku lady and she should be able to restore your weapon...from say 0/5-> 0/10(You should also lose your previous grinds like..)(4/7)->(0/10)..And can only be done once a week or something....or a heaft price...



thats not a bad idea really, long as it it has a timer of noticeable cost

[Shishi-O]

On 2008-01-05 16:33, NGX wrote:
Another good medium could be decreasing max grind but not making us start back at zero. I would be content with that. The grinding system is just a pain. In my opinion it ruins the game experience to some extent. It's definitely one of the most frustrating things I've ever had to do in any game ever, even more frustrating than beating Jet Moto on professional difficulty.

........more difficult that ur wep breaking to an unuseable state in one grind?

cuz this new system seems like cake.

[All-Mighty]

How did u grind in PSO?
I never played it u see and it sounds like from what the author of the forum wrote he makes it seem like +1 or +2 added 2 grinds no matter what.

[BlueInfinity]

That's exactly how they worked find about (10)+1 grinders add it to weapon, boom instant +10 status.

Anyway like someone else on this topic said if you want the old system back go play pso.

I honestly don't see how the new system could be considered harsh compared to the last one we had, back when you lost a lot more than just a weapon downgrade.

you guys must be new or something.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BlueInfinity on 2008-01-05 19:59 ]</font>

[easy]

i like the old way better sage put it back the old way just sage play with us to make you play more
play and pay more

[Silver_Wyrm]

On 2008-01-05 19:48, easy wrote:
i like the old way better sage put it back the old way just sage play with us to make you play more
play and pay more


...huh?

[Morganna]

On 2008-01-05 13:02, Dhylec wrote:
I think the current grind system is a world better then the previous. Losing a good weapon is painful & discouraging. The new system makes sure that doesn't happen. The worse you get is back to square one- the pre-grind stats.

When you grind, you are gambling. Gamble should have risk & reward. You only want reward, that's a bit unfair.



Nothing wrong with only wanting a reward.

Sometimes, game companies make games that are too hard.

Not saying that I personally feel this way, but it would be a mistake to assume that Sega is perfect in this regard.

[BlueInfinity]

Because wanting without earning, makes you lazy and spoiled.

Like it was stated before grinding is a luxury, it's completely unnecessary in terms of leveling.

The whole because (it's too hard crap) doesn't cut it, it's right there in black and blue NO ONE ever said it was gonna be easy.

Gah what is with you ppl, it's like playing a game on extremely hard mode with a 1% chance of getting through it the easy way, you play it hoping to luck out on that 1% and end up losing and yet you still complain about it being too hard?

Seriously where is all this broken logic coming from?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BlueInfinity on 2008-01-05 20:32 ]</font>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Well, I hate that this whole grinding thing depends entirely on luck, but its better than PSO's grinding system that was a bit meh, and definitely better than the PSU thing where if you fail, you lose the weapon period. I prefer a weapon grinded to 3 over one not grinded at all, but I prefer a non-grinded weapon over no weapon at all.

[physic]

for most weapons, grinding isnt going to make your weapon great, it may add a few atp and pp, but its not going to make you do insanely more dmg. It is a luxury, a way to get a little stronger.

For a few weapons, grinding is great, it gives huge bonuses, but really, they wouldnt have put weapons in this game in this way if grinds were guaranteed. The point of those weapons is to set up a system where you find the rare board, then the rare mats, then you risk the grinds, each level increases the difficulty of getting the super item. Instead of having a 1/1 billion chance of getting agito repca, they set it up so its just a 1 in 1 billion chance of getting a repca to 10. if they made the system eaiser, they would take out weapons like these, or make them barely gain with grinds.

Point is they arent going to make it easy to get an agito +10 that defeats the purpose of the agito and would make all other s rank swords obsolete, the same stands for any weapon that grinds like agito. Also there is no reason to make regular grinding easier as well, or there is very little value in grinding anything but the best weapon. your +10 old a rank can compete with someone who got a lucky S in this system, but with easy grinds, nope. You guys just want everything easier, but really the game isnt that hard to begin with.

[TheTofuShop]

The grind system now is balanced.

that doesnt mean I like it, but it does mean it works.

[Genoa]

My only complaint with grinding... is that it should tell you the percentage rate of success before you grind... not just tell me "your chances are very high..." because most of the time, I NEVER fail the first 2 or 3... and even at 4 it will say "very high" ... breaks 50% of the time for me >___>
I demand to know the exact rate of success, not have some dimwitted nut-job behind the counter taking my Weapon and Grinder giving me a cruddy guesstimation >__>

[Morganna]

I am not opposed to challenge.

I am opposed to how people like to browbeat others for alledged "laziness."

[HandOfThornz]

If grinding with a +10 grinder's, it would be nice for higher success, as they are harder to make, unless you have loads of of spare cash you want spend on buying them.
Me personally has more luck with +8's though http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Someone said above possibly add away to reset a weapoon to 0/10. That sound's like a great idea! So for all us with weapons that have ended up 1/1,2/2 etc... get another shot at getting it higher. Yes it would mean possibly more people will end up with 10/10, but resetting a weapon for a price, getting new grinders would cost even more cash. so i can't see this being too much of a problem.

[gambit04]

They could maybe let us combine grinders for a better chance at the success rate. Say a s+[number] adds that number to the successful chance on the grind. Say you combine 20 S+1's so you now have a S+20 that adds 20% to the success of a grind sounds simple enough. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

But...

Like someone said earlier you don't need 10/10 weapons to lvl and have fun. People who have 10/10 weapons take pride in their pallet they work hard to get there and deserve the system to stay unchanged. I personally only grind until it says "high" My grinding experiences always end up bad. :/

It would be nice to see the actually % success rate on the grind.

[Elley]

On 2008-01-05 13:02, Dhylec wrote:
I think the current grind system is a world better then the previous. Losing a good weapon is painful & discouraging. The new system makes sure that doesn't happen. The worse you get is back to square one- the pre-grind stats.

When you grind, you are gambling. Gamble should have risk & reward. You only want reward, that's a bit unfair.




What he said.



0:)

[Arika]

I still think the grind success rate should higher around 10-15% ,

or in another way, keep the same grind rate but "-1/-1" when fail instead of "back to 0/-1"

[NGX]

On 2008-01-05 19:48, BlueInfinity wrote:
That's exactly how they worked find about (10)+1 grinders add it to weapon, boom instant +10 status.

Anyway like someone else on this topic said if you want the old system back go play pso.

I honestly don't see how the new system could be considered harsh compared to the last one we had, back when you lost a lot more than just a weapon downgrade.

you guys must be new or something.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BlueInfinity on 2008-01-05 19:59 ]</font>


Actually I have been playing PSU since it came out last year and I played PSO when it first came out on DC. I enjoy the game or else I wouldn't still be playing. I just don't think the grinding system is very good, yeah it's great you don't lose the weapon any more. Having to start back at zero AND losing a max grind in the process is just monotonous though. Oh and that's a wonderful attitude you have there. Poor little guy, are you afraid you won't feel special with your 10/10's any more? *sniff*

[Noblewine]

The new grinding system is an improvement. I like it because your weapons won't break anymore if a grind isn't successful. Losing a weapon because of a failed grind is discouraging.

[D1ABOLIK]

I never understand why people care if other people have the same S ranks or anything really. You want to get the best possible equipment for your character and i understand that. But so does everyone else. Honestly why does it matter at all. If everyone has great weapons and armor than wouldnt that make partying that much more fun when runnin harder S2 missions? If you run countless missions to get an uber S rank, only to have it drop like crazy in some event, than why would you complain?? Shouldnt you just go hunt more than also? If you spent that much time soloing for it with horrible drop rates than you obviously like the weapon, armor, etc. Why not find more and cook them? Maybe you will get better percentages. Make them different elements. It really doesnt matter. To anyone that says they dont want increased drop rates because then everyone will have them-pull your head out your ass. IT DOESNT MATTER. Same with the grinding. You dont want it like PSO cause then everyone will have +10's? SO WHAT. Get over yourself.

________
Daihatsu yrv history (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Daihatsu_YRV)

[physic]

On 2008-01-06 00:36, D1ABOLIK wrote:
I never understand why people care if other people have the same S ranks or anything really. You want to get the best possible equipment for your character and i understand that. But so does everyone else. Honestly why does it matter at all. If everyone has great weapons and armor than wouldnt that make partying that much more fun when runnin harder S2 missions? If you run countless missions to get an uber S rank, only to have it drop like crazy in some event, than why would you complain?? Shouldnt you just go hunt more than also? If you spent that much time soloing for it with horrible drop rates than you obviously like the weapon, armor, etc. Why not find more and cook them? Maybe you will get better percentages. Make them different elements. It really doesnt matter. To anyone that says they dont want increased drop rates because then everyone will have them-pull your head out your ass. IT DOESNT MATTER. Same with the grinding. You dont want it like PSO cause then everyone will have +10's? SO WHAT. Get over yourself.



So why put grinding in the game at all, you may as well just have weapons drop with +10 stats. It means theres no difference or value to a grinded weapon vs a new one. Its not about what everyone else has, it will change the value of your own weapons to yourself. As it is, a good % +10 9 star will have value for quite awhile, if every + is guaranteed, that is no longer the case. soon as new weapons come out your old become instantly crap. Basically the grind system is not just and increase of stats, its built into the way they designed the game. for example, they made agito drop semi easily, knowing that was only one part of the battle for the perfect sword.

Its a way of breaking up the obtaining of items so you can have a progression. trust me when i say, if they took out the grind system they would just increase the difficulty of obtaining items.

Even besides this, the grind system is set up to make getting drops still have value. For a ra or a fo, what is the point of ever finding or making a weapon, you only need 1 or maybe 2 just to have multi on the pallete. With a guaranteed grind, after you find them once, they are basically totally useless, all weapons would slowly devalue at a greater rate than they already do. The grind system is set in place to balance this and make it so you have reason to celebrate getting a drop more than once. This especially applies to forces and rangers, as they get no elemental %s.
Its part of the way the game is balanced, if they took out the risk completely, it would change the game drastically. If you really want to change the game drastically, maybe this isnt the game for you.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: physic on 2008-01-06 01:32 ]</font>

[D1ABOLIK]

The only reason i mentioned people getting upset about everyone having the same S ranks and armor is cause in previous post people mentioned it bothers them when other people have the same rare weapon as them. Im not saying take out grinding all together. I just think it needs changed still. I prefer the grinding system in PSO to PSU. But i also agree finding grinders was WAY to easy in PSO. If they implemented the PSO grinding system but made grinders very very rare i would prefer that over what we have now and beleive it would still balance things. +10 weapons would still be very rare cause no one would have the grinders, and it would also prevent the cost of grinded weapons in player shops from droppin dramatically. Its just my opinon of course. But to be honest this whole thread is pointless cause it will never happen. And in all honesty what we have now is a thousand times better than the initial PSU grinding system. So no one has the right to complain. It just bothers me when some one has a rare weapon they USE. Then everyone gets it in an event and they think it devalues it. Well if your not selling it than it is really irrelevant how many people have it. If your using it, than so what if tons of people have it. As soon as the next big thing comes along they will hunt that anyways.

________
Yamaha xtz 750 specifications (http://www.yamaha-tech.com/wiki/Yamaha_XTZ_750)

[physic]

well i agree with the fact people talk about devaluing things, basically they want no one to have anything but themselves. It really doesnt effect your actual gameplay if other people have something you already have. Im guessing they had events in mind when they set up the rarity of some items, there wouldnt be much point to events if they were the same as regular missions, and being that they are limited time, their rewards have to be greater. Also people really need to keep in mind that the game goes up to 15stars, exactly how rare do you expect 10 and 11 stars to be in this case? man we havenet even seen 12 stars which have been in game data since the game came out. Truth is people bitch when its obtainable, then they will bitch in teh future when theres a bunch of rares that are impossible to get, people are never satisfied.

Personally, although this grind system generally screws me over, i recognize it has a place in the game, and it makes more sense than the old, which basically meant you would almost never grind a good % weapon and definately not a rare one. I'm fine with teh grind system as is.

[Iduno]

I hate the way this system relys on luck but if it changed to the pso method now the +10 weapons would lose a lot of value

How about some kind of skill based minigame that increases in difficulty with every grind, from easy on the 1st grind to super hard at +10?

[ZEO_X]

It’s too late to add a new system but if they did i think it would be based on something like a +255 grind and not just +10

.find grinder in the field
.convert it(+1 - +5) and lets just say you get a +2
.add that +2 to your favorite single saber+49 and make it into a saber+51

.no chance of failing
.and of course makes the grinders hard to find and can’t be store bought


I would like something like that more just to save up your grinders for your favorite weapon or do what you want with them.

I think it would add more to weapon prices on the market being more diverse. a 5/10 is about 50%more and a 10/10 is 125% more valuable roughly. but if someone managed to get even a 100+ grinds on a weapon even lower weapons it could be worth almost 500% more then the +0

lol Sega isn’t going to change anything but its still interesting discussion.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ZEO_X on 2008-01-06 03:57 ]</font>

[Ibuka]

I like the PSU's grinding system better, although PSO's was ok, But it really didn't help teching Force on PSO like it does on PSU. It really only helped FOmarl and FOmar PSO wise, as Forces

[SabZero]

Why do you want everything spoonfed? I'd rather they did away with the whole grinding system than to make it riskless.

Because then they might aswell set all stats on players and equipment to the maximum and all enemy stats to 1. What's the fun in that?!

Edit to add: if you prefer/miss PSO, play some PSO. Why should they make an equal game? PSO exists, so you can play all you want... Then there's PSU, and it's good that it's different.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SabZero on 2008-01-06 08:51 ]</font>

[Jasam]

I wouldn't mind either a boost to grind rates, or up to Grinder X +20 super rare/expensive grinders or perhaps even the removal of "back to 0"/ a change to "drop a level"

[AlphaDragoon]

I personally think it'd be cool if when you failed it either:

1. Resets you without the max grind dropping
2. Lowers the max grinds but keeps your current level

Number 2 would probably be the one that would work best, and I'd be fine with that. As it stands I'm still afraid to go beyond +2 because of the reset + max grind drop. My brother also brought up the idea of a rare "Weapon Repair" item that can restore your max grinds.

EDIT: Someone said above me that it should at least show the exact percentage you have of succeeding, I wholeheartedly agree with this.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AlphaDragoon on 2008-01-06 10:52 ]</font>

[Fure_Rakune]

Topic lost all hope with the word "pls" in the title.