2nd slicer PA: Better or worse than the original?

[cel]

Allright, I know the PA for the slicer that you can get for frags isn't called chikki2 but I cant be arsed to go look that up and be annoyed by another confusing (for me, the western, english speaking player) and non-descriptive (again, to me) PA name and an even worse description once again making a vague reference to some reactor that supposedly exists in my weapon and how destructive it is (...right).

So indulge me please and understand what I mean when I say chikki2. For the sake of fun!

Some of us know about the chikki and what it stands for. It's either a love or hate thing. The question I ask is simple. Is the Slicer PA you can get in exchange for PA Fragments worth it? Is it better than chikki? Or is it like one of those crappy movie sequels that made you regret seeing it?

edit:
youtube link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpubuVgDY_E

Doesn't really demonstrate (to me) a clear superiority or inferiority. Please help me out.

And for your nitpickers who love japan and love everything japanese and got upset when I made a mockery of it: it's called Choto Kantsu-jin.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dhylec on 2008-01-22 10:13 ]</font>

[Retniwreven]

Pretty, but absolutely pathetic in comparison, damage-wise.

[Hank]

chikki is better

[Xaeris]

Chikki is better, no question. The only redeeming thing about Choutou is that it ends up with a higher ATA mod since it gains 2% every level past 30. That, and the fact that no one can call anyone with Choutou leveled adequately a slicer nub.

[Fafnir]

Why get yourself surrounded with Chikki2 for max effect when you can just lay back and attack them all at once from far away safety with Chikki1? That's what slicers are for anyway.

Besides, the only real downside to Chikki1 is the really femminine animation. But that makes it look even cooler when used by a big, manly cast.

[Pillan]

A faster attack with a shorter, but wider range on the first move and a shorter, thinner range on the second. It's more accurate, but slightly less powerful (the second move actually gets bigger numbers than Chikki at the same level). Most people tend to exaggerate the lower damage, but it's not much less with the speed difference.

It's a better move than Chikki for fast moving mobs, such as Maggas, and when you find yourself having accuracy issues with Chikki. Otherwise, Chikki is probably your better option. I'd say it's not worth the frag cost, but it's still situationally useful.

[Kylie]

On 2008-01-21 16:08, Retniwreven wrote:
Pretty, but absolutely pathetic in comparison, damage-wise.


I agree, but it's not entirely useless. I'd say it's an okay choice. I bought it a couple of weeks ago, and I have no regrets.

[Retniwreven]

Ah, I was comparing the offline version. I wasn't interested enough to spend the frags online and it's quite different there.

[Hrith]

Online, Choutou is better than Chikki in every aspect but damage.

I use it when in teams, it's more friendly to others.

[cel]

Thanks a lot guys. Most of you affirmed what my instincts were telling me, and I find solace in that. Chikki4Life.

[Lady-Kismet]

On 2008-01-21 16:11, Fafnir wrote:
Besides, the only real downside to Chikki1 is the really femminine animation. But that makes it look even cooler when used by a big, manly cast.


Um, how you explain to me HOW the Chikki animation looks feminine? <_<; It's more badass than anything, that when girls use it, they either look like typical tomboy-ish type characters or just downright sexy. And then guys use it, it's make them look like they're cool and self-confident. (Yes, I see ALL of that in the Chikki animation. Shut up, my imagination is hyperly overly vivid. XD)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lady-Kismet on 2008-01-22 04:08 ]</font>

[Doh42]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Chikki2's redeeming quality the fact it acts as a pseudo-grenade launcher, which is to say it would hit many hit boxes of bigger targets, as opposed to Chikki's one-hit-per-mob behaviour?

The above statement have been proven false; Chikki2 doesn't seem to hit more than one hitbox on large mobs.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Doh42 on 2008-01-22 08:40 ]</font>

[Lineek]

On 2008-01-22 04:05, Lady-Kismet wrote:

On 2008-01-21 16:11, Fafnir wrote:
Besides, the only real downside to Chikki1 is the really femminine animation. But that makes it look even cooler when used by a big, manly cast.


Um, how you explain to me HOW the Chikki animation looks feminine? <_<; It's more badass than anything, that when girls use it, they either look like typical tomboy-ish type characters or just downright sexy. And then guys use it, it's make them look like they're cool and self-confident. (Yes, I see ALL of that in the Chikki animation. Shut up, my imagination is hyperly overly vivid. XD)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lady-Kismet on 2008-01-22 04:08 ]</font>



WOOOAH i see super ultra sexi hawtness in the Absolute Dance PA maself, even guys look good using it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

anyhoo i use the choutou for mission mobs ad the chikki for the big o bossy mans an (actually only really use it on the arms for mother brain or haggis(fakis), i only use slicers when im havin a ball on AF and i gear for speed)

[amtalx]

When soloing...
Chikki

When in teams...

I'm team friendly: Choutou
I'm a soggy dick: Chikki

[Hrith]

On 2008-01-22 04:17, Doh42 wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Chikki2's redeeming quality the fact it acts as a pseudo-grenade launcher, which is to say it would hit many hit boxes of bigger targets, as opposed to Chikki's one-hit-per-mob behaviour?Well, you are, Choutou does not hit more than one hit box on a boss.

[Doh42]

Aye, I just bought it this morning and noticed this myself, and I was a sad panda. I still love it way more than chikki, but it's a bit odd not to destroy whole spawns of S boomas by myself with my trusty fuma-hikens.

My take so far after getting it to level 11. Chikki is powerful, but roots you, making you a prime target for barta/megid/diga while Chikki2 is way more mobile at the cost of dealing lower damage (especially on the first part). Part 2 deals nice damage, though. (2200 for me on just attacks, seems to hit about 3 targets at point blank range or so)

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-22 08:39, Doh42 wrote:
Aye, I just bought it this morning and noticed this myself, and I was a sad panda. I still love it way more than chikki, but it's a bit odd not to destroy whole spawns of S boomas by myself with my trusty fuma-hikens.

My take so far after getting it to level 11. Chikki is powerful, but roots you, making you a prime target for barta/megid/diga while Chikki2 is way more mobile at the cost of dealing lower damage (especially on the first part). Part 2 deals nice damage, though. (2200 for me on just attacks, seems to hit about 3 targets at point blank range or so)



Can't tell you how many times I've died thanks to chikki. >_> I'd agree with your point there.

[chibiLegolas]

On 2008-01-21 16:15, Pillan wrote:
A faster attack with a shorter, but wider range on the first move and a shorter, thinner range on the second. It's more accurate, but slightly less powerful (the second move actually gets bigger numbers than Chikki at the same level). Most people tend to exaggerate the lower damage, but it's not much less with the speed difference.

It's a better move than Chikki for fast moving mobs, such as Maggas, and when you find yourself having accuracy issues with Chikki. Otherwise, Chikki is probably your better option. I'd say it's not worth the frag cost, but it's still situationally useful.



Interesting. It looks to me (from the video), that chikki2 is more meant to be used at close range. And another excellent attack for crowds for single handed weaponry with less PP consumption.
It does look pretty fast, so it's totally up AF's alley.

This doesn't seem to cause any knock down/up/back either. And the 2nd tier doesn't hit infinate targets like chikki does it?

Hmm...
I may have to try this out myself once I start earning frags again.

[panzer_unit]

Choutou's range isn't THAT bad. I prefer it because it's a better move against stuff I can't or don't want to get close to... monsters that run all over the place, monsters with nasty ranged attacks, etc.

Chikki's seems to be meant for butchering encounters that are made to be wiped out by linear AOE's, and bad for everything else. Sorta pointless, "it's good at situations that are cooked up just for using it."

[Pillan]

The range isn't that short (around the same range as twin handguns, or possibly a little shorter) and the PP drain/time is actually faster than that of Chikki. The main problem is that the range of the first move is awkward and loops back inward on itself, so it's easier to use at either short range (where both blades hit everything) or long range (where both blades once again hit evrything), but avoid mid-range (where 2 of the 3 blades miss most targets).

And I'm pretty sure everything involving slicers is infinite targets (basic attack and both PAs), but everything else is just harder than Chikki to get 4+ targets in range.

[Sazan]

Choutou shows what slicer (in Phantasy Star) is supposed to be: fast attacks with low damage that hit several targets.
You can stop just before the overpowered 360%-attack second part so it is very party friendly. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Billy960]

This PA is really only meant for close range. The first part acts like regular slicer attacks so they arc. So it is possible to hit at range you just need to turn at just the right angle to hit everything. The second part is actually a little stronger that the 2nd part of Chikki but it only hits once. It isn't a very wide shot though but its very fast doesn't cost a lot of PP and is party friendly. I prefer to use Choutou in wide open areas since its easy to control where the shot goes unlike Chikki where you have very limited mobility once you start the PA.

[Gen2000]

Chikki is just better in every way, even Chikki has a retarded hitbox on it that you can hit enemies slightly behind you with it. Choutou is for those Slicer users who want to be nice to party by not using Chikki basically. Since it's weak you won't be able to wipe out enemy spawns as soon as they appear. Players who baw about not getting exp because they slow to tag will appericate that.

If the enemy situtation is such where Chikki isn't good to use in then better off just using another weapon all together that would kill much faster than Choutou spam.

Worrying about random barta or whatever means you don't have a resist unit yet or no good STA armor, really no excuse since these things dropping like it's hot from event and AoI missions nowadays. I don't mind the mind the "lack of mobility" (it's not even that bad, especially on AF) of Chikki since things dies within the first combo anyways. I use Chikki on vandas all the time and they barely get a chance to sling diga and if they do I already recovered and able to dodge it. Not knowing how to use Chikki vs. long range projectile enemies isn't a flaw in the PA itself.

[cel]

Ah yeah I was ABOUT to ask why all the party-hostility for the usage of chiki, but I thought it might have had something to do with an unequal distribution of EXP due to inadequate party tagging. Other than that I always thought it was very party frienndly because it does fantastic aoe damage without the usual blow away. It makes some mobs flinch a little, yeah, but that's about it.

Yeah, usually when I chikki in a party, I become acutely aware of ppl that are trying to tag things, especially if I am the highest level in the party by many levels. I'll let them get their first shots in and then start the chikki rounds. I'm sensitive to that, so if you are with me and not tagging things as much as you'd like, just say so and I'll change my tactics a bit! Especially when we have a nice, caring, force on our team. Those guys have the hardest time getting equal exp sometimes when in a party, especially when you have a dude who spams knockback PA's like no tomorrow (I've been guilty of doing that from time to time myself, but I usually apologize when it's an accident and not a tactical maneuver in an effort to save someone or gather a separated mob cluster into one corner... ie 3rd dus majarra combo. Batter up!).

It's overall efficiency (read: many runs go significantly faster) for killing most mob packs can't be beat (imho), but I tend to agree somewhat with the mobility issues. If you're fighting lethal ranged mobs, you want to chikki + move + chikki + move usually. The real hawtsawce about chikki in this circumstance, however, is that it has amazing range. You could be really, really far away from a mob... barely see it ahead of you... and still hit and kill it. Granted, you lose the efficiency but gain a lot of survivability if you are in way over your head.

This thread is becoming far more informative than I ever dreamed. Really, thank you, guys. Although the thread title got nerfed, I kinda appreciate it because it helps to clarify things from the get-go. Thanks for that. Now I am confuzzled. Now I am really curious to see chikki2 in action.