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Legendria
Jan 24, 2008, 02:55 AM
Please Sega, I beg of you.

Give us Olga Flow.

I don't care if the only viable option is a huge SEED-Magashi. He looks derived from O.Flow anyway. Just don't name it Hyper Magashi or something lame.

I also don't care if the fight sequence is the same. Elevator ride into beating on his ankles. It will own.

Please Sega, I'm begging here.

Bomber The Cosmonaut
Jan 24, 2008, 03:01 AM
>_> How about an ACTUAL Olga Flow boss fight? Not a reskin?
Or on top of that.. MOAR UNIQUE BOSSES instead of Re-Skins. :3

Legendria
Jan 24, 2008, 03:05 AM
For those uninitiated:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLWhN34nIBc

Feign
Jan 24, 2008, 03:39 AM
One of the greatest boss fights of all time, of all games. I loved fighting Falz, but Olga was the epic pie.

darkante
Jan 24, 2008, 03:40 AM
I would like a epic boss fight just as cool as Olga Flow are in PSO Episode II.

Away with lazy ass reskins and more original fights..not PSO bosses remakes!
Godamnit..if we are gonna get more of them.we might as well go back to PSO game!
"Ohh thatīs right..itīs going under therefore giving us reason to bring them back in PSU!
We are so smart on ST"....sigh

Shiro_Ryuu
Jan 24, 2008, 04:55 AM
I think Parum needs a Manbearpig and a Robot boss and Moatoob needs a Ragan boss. Those would be good reskins.

SATatami
Jan 24, 2008, 04:57 AM
Enough PSO crap, please. Let's actually try to get some more ORIGINAL bosses instead of rehashing bosses from a 7+ year old game.

RedMussel
Jan 24, 2008, 04:59 AM
Why do people ask Sega here...

Fafnir
Jan 24, 2008, 05:14 AM
On 2008-01-24 01:57, SATatami wrote:
Enough PSO crap, please. Let's actually try to get some more ORIGINAL bosses instead of rehashing bosses from a 7+ year old game.



Original bosses are great and all, but this is Sonic Team. These guys kept porting over the same game for almost 7 years.

SATatami
Jan 24, 2008, 05:17 AM
On 2008-01-24 02:14, Fafnir wrote:

On 2008-01-24 01:57, SATatami wrote:
Enough PSO crap, please. Let's actually try to get some more ORIGINAL bosses instead of rehashing bosses from a 7+ year old game.



Original bosses are great and all, but this is Sonic Team. These guys kept porting over the same game for almost 7 years.



Because fans keep bitching for it. >_> That's why all the PSO content's in AoI, which PSU was lacking PSO content before. Am I wrong?

Fafnir
Jan 24, 2008, 05:30 AM
Because fans keep bitching for it. >_> That's why all the PSO content's in AoI, which PSU was lacking PSO content before. Am I wrong?



We've learned from ST's exploits to lower our expectations. When it comes to ST, if they can implament something old, it's praise worthy for them. Kind of like how you try to act really enthusiastic around children and stupid people, so they don't feel bad. Except this time, it's out of constant dissapointment instead of accomidating their disability.

Psycho_Sonic
Jan 24, 2008, 05:42 AM
On 2008-01-24 02:30, Fafnir wrote:



Because fans keep bitching for it. >_> That's why all the PSO content's in AoI, which PSU was lacking PSO content before. Am I wrong?



We've learned from ST's exploits to lower our expectations. When it comes to ST, if they can implament something old, it's praise worthy for them. Kind of like how you try to act really enthusiastic around children and stupid people, so they don't feel bad. Except this time, it's out of constant dissapointment instead of accomidating their disability.



Quoted for win.

amtalx
Jan 24, 2008, 07:40 AM
On 2008-01-24 02:17, SATatami wrote:

On 2008-01-24 02:14, Fafnir wrote:

On 2008-01-24 01:57, SATatami wrote:
Enough PSO crap, please. Let's actually try to get some more ORIGINAL bosses instead of rehashing bosses from a 7+ year old game.



Original bosses are great and all, but this is Sonic Team. These guys kept porting over the same game for almost 7 years.



Because fans keep bitching for it. >_> That's why all the PSO content's in AoI, which PSU was lacking PSO content before. Am I wrong?



I think that's because PSO worked...PSU didn't at the beginning, and it's still plagued with issues (not that PSO didn't have its share of issues too.)

Basically what happened was all the PSO vets went "PSO was fun. PSU isn't. Make PSU like PSO plz." So ST was like "Great, we can rip the models from PSO and saves ourselves tons of work developing original content while making the peons happy too." If ST can create new conent that is as much fun, or more fun than the PSO content, I would be more than happy.

Chaosgyro
Jan 24, 2008, 07:43 AM
Come on guys, PSU isn't that bad. It's pretty damn craptastic compared to what it could be, but on its own merits it's actually a good bit of fun.

On topic: as someone who never played PSO I agree that I would much rather see ST fire up the braincells and make something new AND interesting. However, whether they pull that off in an acceptable way is a crapshoot so I would gladly accept rehashes of things they already got right. It's all new to me. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Also, I think SEED Magashi is supposed to be the Olga Flow-alike for PSU. He's a prominent character taken over by the reigning evil force, he just happens to be a villain this time. It is wierd that even after all this time I don't really give a shit about Magashi, but I actually get interested reading about Flowen? It's pretty sad to like a character from something I never played more than what I currently play.

Dragon_Knight
Jan 24, 2008, 08:52 AM
Meh Magashi was as 2D as characters come...all he wanted was power and thats about all he got. Flowen had reasons and very real reactions to what happend to him....the same with Rico, you could feel her getting more stressed and scared as she went on.

SATatami
Jan 24, 2008, 09:36 AM
On 2008-01-24 05:52, Dragon_Knight wrote:
Meh Magashi was as 2D as characters come...all he wanted was power and thats about all he got. Flowen had reasons and very real reactions to what happend to him....the same with Rico, you could feel her getting more stressed and scared as she went on.



You also have to take into account that Magashi was a CAST, a uncaring machine with only one thing on his mind. That alone makes him 2D.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SATatami on 2008-01-24 06:36 ]</font>

Reipard
Jan 24, 2008, 09:43 AM
I know what we need. A Ryucross Dragon.

SATatami
Jan 24, 2008, 09:54 AM
On 2008-01-24 06:43, Reipard wrote:
I know what we need. A Ryucross Dragon.



What we need is a fight with all the previous dragons, as well as a new out for each element besides fire... OH, BUT HERE'S THE TWIST. You fight them all at once. Can you handle it?

Andy1423
Jan 24, 2008, 10:14 AM
Olga flow would be sweet!!! And for that matter how about Saint Milon...I don't know about you guys, but I thought he was a cool frekin boss...the first rare boss/type.

beatrixkiddo
Jan 24, 2008, 10:30 AM
Saint wasn't rare. Kondrieu was rare. :<

Laranas
Jan 24, 2008, 11:08 AM
On 2008-01-24 04:43, Chaosgyro wrote:
Come on guys, PSU isn't that bad. It's pretty damn craptastic compared to what it could be, but on its own merits it's actually a good bit of fun.If ST took the time to balance PSU into a game where your efforts delivered appropriate rewards on every planet, and where leveling (characters and classes) was gradual and just as rewarding, it would be a much more enjoyable game. People would learn how to play their class to survive, there wouldn't be a huge disparity in character levels, and maybe the economy would be stronger.

Anyway, I'd like to see less PSO content in PSU. I loved PSO, I played it from v1's launch until PSU came out, countless hours on all my characters. Actually, I counted them between 16 and 17 thousand hours. Even so, PSOs bosses were linked to the story of the game, and PSUs should be as well.

De Rol Le doesn't fit there. We all know it. There are other possibilities that can be done in PSU. We've not once seen an enraged beast rampage on Nanoblast. Or a boss similar to the group of robots Ethan fought at once in Episode I. Or that silly little CAST that changes her hair to fiery red and gets powerful through the SEED.

What I'm saying is.. if the SEED can infect anything, the possibilities for bosses are pretty endless. We don't need reskins. ST is just being lazy on the creativity train.

Para
Jan 24, 2008, 11:14 AM
This is the wrong place to be begging anyways lol

Feign
Jan 24, 2008, 11:42 AM
Because when Sonic Team tries to create something new, we end up with chain exploding robots, flying bosses who hardly land and even then only for a few seconds, and MAGAS MAGGAHNA.

Apone
Jan 24, 2008, 11:53 AM
re-skin the whole game! put those PC and 360 processors to work! BUMP MAPPING DANG IT! >.>
how about shrinking adhanna deghanna and having 3 of them (multiplayer only) at the same time or some other type of twin boss madness.

RemiusTA
Jan 24, 2008, 05:44 PM
The problem is that ST made a mistake when it came to the amount of power their working with in this game. The boss fights in PSU have the potental to completely rape PSO's (The dragons are ages better than they were in PSO.)


Its really just like ST is blind to the amount of fun we can have with this game. If they were smart, they would make the bosses of the S / S-2 missions FAR more difficult. For instance, do you know how fun it would be if they simply spawned 2 de-ragnus instead of one? The difficulty of the boss fight would be WAY harder. You would have to fight one on the ground while dodging the one in the sky. 6 party members would then have a CHALLENGE instead of a rapefest.

Reskins arent the problem, its just that ST refuses to give them any new patterns. Lets face it -- the only cool reskin in PSO was Vol Opt. v2.0. He was way cooler than the Sil dragon ever wished he was.


ST just needs to work on presentation some more. Im praying they get it right come time for the newest expansion, but then again we still havent seen EVERYTHING in this game yet. Sure, theres the Alterzoghog, but thats the only new boss we've seen. And to be frank, that boss is FUCKING awesome...theres just no way he can take on 6 guardians at once. That boss only has 1 attack that can wipe a party out, and it usually only catches hunters. (That tail sweep is BRUTAL.) We KNOW there is a final boss nobody has seen yet, and they would be FUCKING retarded to simply reskin Falkis again. They arent that lazy.


Olga Flow is already in this game....Just reskin a Stalvus and make it way bigger slow down the animations, then add maybe one or 2 new attacks. Boom, done.

Im eager to see what the Ep.3 final boss will be. Hopefully it wont be dissapointing. Falkis final form is really fun to fight, and if it played the Falz lv3 music it would already be far more epic t han 90% of the PSO bosses. ST just is lacking that final touch. (Which for me, is the camera. ST needs to seriously think about giving us new camera angles during huge bosses.)

Chuck_Norris
Jan 24, 2008, 05:49 PM
On 2008-01-24 01:57, SATatami wrote:
Enough PSO crap, please. Let's actually try to get some more ORIGINAL bosses instead of rehashing bosses from a 7+ year old game.



For once, i actually agree with SAT.

Jaspaller
Jan 24, 2008, 06:18 PM
lolololol This just in! Olga Flow is now a reskinned Grinne Bete!

CHOX
Jan 24, 2008, 07:11 PM
Yes! And with the same music as the original.

Sinue_v2
Jan 24, 2008, 08:19 PM
It's pretty damn craptastic compared to what it could be, but on its own merits it's actually a good bit of fun.

That's one of the problems though. PSU isn't standing on it's own merits. And rather than trying to fix things, Sonic Team seems more concerned with ripping content out of PSO to use as a nostalgia crutch.


Meh Magashi was as 2D as characters come...all he wanted was power and thats about all he got.

Magashi is just a cast clone. He's a drone. Of course he's 2D, and he was never meant to be anything otherwise. Now Hauzer... we've yet to see much of him or his character.

As for Olga Flow in PSU, I'm going to have to say noooo...

He was an amazing PSO boss - but that's where he should stay. Give us new and original content.

Reipard
Jan 24, 2008, 08:21 PM
We KNOW there is a final boss nobody has seen yet, and they would be FUCKING retarded to simply reskin Falkis again. They arent that lazy.

Here here to everything you said, Remius- but...they did reskin Fakis again :. Falz Form Two is apparently Fakis Form Two reskinned.

Chaosgyro
Jan 24, 2008, 11:51 PM
You know, that doesn't bother me. I'm going to piss a whole mess of people off right now but...Dark Falz looked like crap.

From what I can tell by watching videos of the fight he starts as a hole bunch of little spinny things, becomes a crazy rainbow clown on a big...lizard(?)...goes on to be a floating, psychadelic diamond with a crazy hat, then a slightly darker floating diamond with a different crazy hat. Dulk Fakis looks much better even though the story surrounding him is less impressive. Dark god >>>>> SEED form + bunches of A-photons.

Reipard
Jan 25, 2008, 12:04 AM
Dark Force can look like anything he damn well pleases http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif. He's looked like a giant spider, a giant humanoid w/ sword arm, a multi-armed freak, a blobous mass attached to a computer and so on.

They could have easily done a non-reskin that did not suck.

SJW89
Jan 25, 2008, 12:07 AM
You do know SEGA never reads this stuff right? It's not like they understand English anyway...

Laranas
Jan 25, 2008, 12:10 AM
On 2008-01-24 21:07, SJW89 wrote:
You do know SEGA never reads this stuff right? It's not like they understand English anyway...You know a good deal of Sonic Team games have an English option way before Sega of America touch them, right? They know English. It's like magic.

SJW89
Jan 25, 2008, 12:21 AM
They just use translators like slaves. -.-

Chaosgyro
Jan 25, 2008, 12:23 AM
On 2008-01-24 21:04, Reipard wrote:
Dark Force can look like anything he damn well pleases http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif. He's looked like a giant spider, a giant humanoid w/ sword arm, a multi-armed freak, a blobous mass attached to a computer and so on.

They could have easily done a non-reskin that did not suck.



Remember, we've yet to conclusively prove that Dark Falz has any connection to the Algol "Force". http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif That being said, Dark Force 2 and 3 from PSIV were the absolute shit. I always felt the second fight with him was the hardest boss in the game. (i.e. required the most pre-levelling)

Hmm...time to go make a human named Seth.

Temjin-On
Jan 25, 2008, 12:50 AM
Not that I don't love to keep putting in my two cents, and I'm sure this is just rehash at this point but, here's my thought just the same.

PSO content is fine to have in PSU I guess, but please, for the love of god, the entire community needs to STOP. I believe it's entirely unfair to complain that PSU isn't PSO enough. Maybe its because Sega realized that after 7+ years of the same game, they needed to update things a little bit and go a slightly different route. (God forbid that though.)

Seriosuly though, reskinning may be lazyness on Sega's part, but did anyone stop to think that they are a little strapped for cash?

Reipard
Jan 25, 2008, 12:59 AM
Remember, we've yet to conclusively prove that Dark Falz has any connection to the Algol "Force".

So? XP. That doesn't mean he has to be a rehash of Dulk Fakis.


Seriosuly though, reskinning may be lazyness on Sega's part, but did anyone stop to think that they are a little strapped for cash?

In America? Yes. In Japan? Heeeeell no.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Reipard on 2008-01-24 22:00 ]</font>

Temjin-On
Jan 25, 2008, 01:03 AM
Maybe I'm the black sheep here but I think people give Sega a little too much crap sometimes.

Anyway, as far as reskins go, I haven't fought the new Falz (is new Falz even out in the US yet?) So you know, I'm withholding my judgement on that till later.

Reskinning Fakis 2? See above.

As far as PSO content as a whole goes, I want my Holy Ray.

Reipard
Jan 25, 2008, 01:11 AM
I'm a fan of giving Sega crap when it deserves it. Most of the stuff people bitch Sega/Sonic Team about is completely stupid.

The reskinning is not. It is pure laziness and nothing more. You cannot even begin to justify it any other way and I don't see why you're trying. Ambition of Illuminus currently has ONE NEW BOSS that isn't a reskin in any way. This remains true whether you take into account just what we have now or what Japan currently has. And AOI currently has four bosses over there.

That is total BS.


Anyway, as far as reskins go, I haven't fought the new Falz (is new Falz even out in the US yet?) So you know, I'm withholding my judgement on that till later.

Screens and videos are all you need. DF 1 IS De Rol Le. DF 2 likely has no new attacks or patterns considering all current reskins use the same exact attacks as their previous incarnations with few exceptions (Alterahzgohg's breath/helpers).

SATatami
Jan 25, 2008, 01:38 AM
On 2008-01-24 14:49, Chuck_Norris wrote:

On 2008-01-24 01:57, SATatami wrote:
Enough PSO crap, please. Let's actually try to get some more ORIGINAL bosses instead of rehashing bosses from a 7+ year old game.



For once, i actually agree with SAT.



Funny, I'm usually in agreement with the things you say... XD


On 2008-01-24 22:03, Temjin-On wrote:
Maybe I'm the black sheep here but I think people give Sega a little too much crap sometimes.


Aye. If people want the game done a certain way so bad, then why don't they just go get employed in Sonic Team and do it for themselves? But no. Most of the people that complain at ST have no idea how hard it is to make a game, much less how hard it is to make a game that appeals to EVERYONE.

Laranas
Jan 25, 2008, 01:51 AM
On 2008-01-24 22:38, SATatami wrote:
Aye. If people want the game done a certain way so bad, then why don't they just go get employed in Sonic Team and do it for themselves? But no. Most of the people that complain at ST have no idea how hard it is to make a game, much less how hard it is to make a game that appeals to EVERYONE.I was trying, but IBM snatched me up and I'm quite liking where my life is going. Seriously though, if I had the skills to trace packets enough to recreate a server, I'd probably implement some of the changes I had in mind. I'm not much with 3D modeling, so I don't think I'd get over the reskin hurdle myself... but I do know how hard it is to make a game, and it's even harder to make it for EVERYONE, but Sonic Team's been at this for 2 decades, they could at least get some effort back in monster design.

EngelBlut
Jan 25, 2008, 01:51 AM
ive been asking for olga flow for how long now?

Noblewine
Jan 25, 2008, 01:54 AM
I suppose but the bosses that we have now aren't as bad.

EngelBlut
Jan 25, 2008, 01:55 AM
i want something harder and more annoying the the maggas agahna

Sinue_v2
Jan 25, 2008, 03:59 AM
Seriosuly though, reskinning may be lazyness on Sega's part, but did anyone stop to think that they are a little strapped for cash?

I don't buy it. Baring perhaps the latter half of the 16-bit era, since when has Sega NOT been strapped for cash? The Dreamcast was an amazing console with some really excellent games on it, and they were in a far worse finanical position than they are in now. It really showed that they couldn't toss a ton of money at their games for polish (with the exception of Shenmue and a select few others) - but what they did have was imaginative, quirky, and FUN. Even after the Dreamcast when they had more money to spend by slogging off their hardware department and gaining outside funding from companies like Microsoft, they still produced some really wonderful titles like House of the Dead 3, ToeJam & Earl III, Virtua Fighter IV, Super Monkey Ball, Panzer Dragoon Orta, OutRun 2, JSRF, etc.

So what has happened to Sega, because I can't believe it's purely a finanical issue.

Chaosgyro
Jan 25, 2008, 10:48 AM
...much less how hard it is to make a game that appeals to EVERYONE.

They don't have to appeal to everyone, they can settle for just me thanks. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Seriously though, reskinning being a fault of cash doesn't make sense. Sega is paying for ST to have an art department regardless of whether said department is making rehashes of PSO content, reskins of rehashes, gimmicky room themes/decos, or creative, new content. I say they may as well have the project director tell them to work on the latter.

amtalx
Jan 25, 2008, 11:10 AM
On 2008-01-24 22:38, SATatami wrote:

Most of the people that complain at ST have no idea how hard it is to make a game, much less how hard it is to make a game that appeals to EVERYONE.



As someone that actually deals with ST at work...most of our complaints are on the money. They aren't very good a their jobs. EA and Sony are probably my two favorites when it comes to working with other companies.

Ken_Silver
Jan 25, 2008, 01:41 PM
As I am reading this post my CPU chooses to play Olga Flow's boss theme out my music list. It was on shuffle. Talk about concidence!

*on topic*

A well done Olga-Flow is okay as a reskin, but we as fans of Sonic Team have been letting them get away with too much in my opinion. Somehow, someway, we need to let Senior Management know the truth: That thier recent games have sucked if not border-line bad/ horrible. Sure PSU is okay, but okay should not be good enough. It's not fair to us as monthly consumers.

We deserve new original bosses along with a whole new slew of stuff. It seems like they are trying better in some areas (Survival missions and racing missions), then at the same time it seems like we are getting side swiped (more reskins and some major balancing issues). I think they need to wake up and realize that just making okay games and just surviving in the video game industry is not enough. The PS and Sonic series can't survive with just ok games. And Sonic team needs to get this message and do something about it. Maybe they are in denial...

Kietrinia
Jan 25, 2008, 02:31 PM
*has no idea who Olga Flow is, so picks the burger option*

..I'm hungry now http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Reven
Jan 25, 2008, 04:26 PM
I find it really funny that people used to spend so much time griping on here about ST's work on PSO. Now people spend so much time on here griping about ST's work on PSU and whether it should be like PSO or not.

Either way nobody will ever be %100 satisfied. You're all just a bunch of whiners ;p

As for the actual topic, I loved Olga Flow. Probably 1 of the greatest boss fights ever and I've played alot of games over the years. Should they rehash it for here? Meh, not really sure. I would love to fight Olga again but I'd much rather fight a new boss that is just as epic.

Jife_Jifremok
Jan 25, 2008, 05:14 PM
I'm fine with seeing old bosses getting rehashed back into later games, but the way ST's going about it is all fucked up. Bringing back De Rol Le and adding raft movement was neat, but the raft movement did little to combat De Rol Le's new movements of sheer annoyance, TOO MUCH KITING! I coulda sworn he kited less in PSO. Turning Mother Brain into an annoying Dulk Fakis Form 1 reskin...well I give them points for effort since the large immobile boss type seems to fit. But the turning of Dark Falz into a reskin of De Rol Le? Dark Falz is supposed to be a dark god thing, but now the darkness is being almost as lazy as the Great Light! Nevermind that most of the bosses, reskins and all, are just not much fun to fight.

See, when an old boss is rehashed, it is supposed to be an endearing experience. I've noticed that the best way to go is usually to simply adapt the old boss to the new game system; an occasional change may be necessary (or just plain welcome in some cases) but it should still embody what we loved about the boss to begin with. For instance, I nearly shat myself at the sight of Nineball in Armored Core 2 because it brought back memories of how fucking hard he was in AC1. He fought just like he did in AC1 too, as did other rehashed bosses Stinger, Phantasma and Nineball Seraph (the last of which still giving me mecha-nightmares). I was actually disappointed that they were absent in AC3 and Silent Line (my favorite PS2 AC installments). Here's another example: DhaosSekundes in Tales of Eternia. This fight was originally in the primitive Tales of Phantasia on the SNES, but in Tales of Eternia's massively improved combat system he showed off how much ass he could really kick, without turning into a damned reskin of Undine or something. Much like Nineball, he was a reskin of himself and that was more than good enough. Or how about Dracula from Castlevania? You're always just whipping the old man in the face at first but his second form is rarely if ever the same! That's all rehashing done right.

Now, if ST took this approach to reintroducing the old bosses to us, ALONG WITH GIVING US ORIGINAL BOSSES THAT AREN'T A CHORE TO FIGHT!!, we could certainly relive the memories of fighting, say, Olga Flow or Vol Opt. They could surprise veterans with a few new tricks of course. I dunno about Olga's epicness since the shitty core gameplay of PSO sucked all the fun out of it for me. So yes, I'd love to see this supposed epicness in PSU so I can fight him with decent camera controls! Also, Saint Million was Blue Burst only so there are many PSO veterans who have never seen it, so rehashing that would almost be like a whole new boss for those people.