Wartecher or Acrotecher?

[Zaladin]

Should I change from Wartecher to Acrotecher? I love using my tech weps though.

[Gemel]

You should try acrotecher for a day and see if you like it or not, remember that we can change classes very often so why not try?

[Pillan]

If you like using TP-based weapons, Acrotecher is an all-around better choice for that.

The main trade off is more, higher damage melee weapons for higher support (the highest) and higher tech damage. The survivability and single hand melee weapon output are about the same solo between the two classes once you've acquired good weapons. (Obviously WT has an advantage over AT in both if someone with higher support is in your party.)

[-Ryuki-]

Depends on what you plan on using, really. WT can use whips, but they only get A rank, whereas AT gets S rank whips. WT gets lvl 30 on skill PA's, whereas AT only gets 20. WT has a better S rank selection when it comes to melee weapons. Both get Madoogs, but AT has the S rank ones.

WT is more melee and AT is more support. At least, that's how I concluded it due to experiencing both.

[hiraisho]

I would have to say it comes down to which do you enjoy more, attakcing with striking weapons/PAs or attacking with techs. I would say arcotecher is better with the tech and wartecher with the melee. Each can do both but from my experience with both that the way it seems to me. Wt wins out with lv 30 striking PAs while AT only has lv20. With 1h weapons you still get the full combo, but with twin weapons you lose out on the final part of the combo. Its also a question of support, wartecher doesnt have much support having support caping at lv 20 while arcotecher has the best support at lv 40. So while WT get lv 30 striking PAs, the ATs can give themselves lv 31 buffs, compared to lv 11 WT buffs. another Pro to AT is the bonus to casting speed. Tho it also seemed to me that AT was a lot more frail than WT when I tried AT. So I'm sticking with WT but thats also because I prefer to melee and having Giresta Reverser and Megistar for myself and anyone else around me (for the heals I know Megistar is self only)

[chaoskila]

fortetecher duh duh

[Anduril]

Like Melee attacking with some TECHing on the side? Stay Wartecher.
Like TECHing with some decent Melee? Go Acrotecher.
Just like TECHing? Go Fortetecher.
Simple solutions, from a simple minded man.

[Sinue_v2]

What's funny is that, from my experience, it's still generally the Wartecher who's expected to support and not the Acrotecher. It's like people in general have just resigned to the idea that Acrotecher is nothing more than a gimped meleer - "ForteWhipper" and look elsewhere for support.

There was a game I was in a few days ago in which I was playing with my non-support WT. When things got heated, I often had to go pure support mode to compensate for my lower Resta... and I did not use Megistar since I didn't really want to open that can of worms. (Some people get really pissy if you buff yourself and not them) So anyhow, we lose a member and gain an Acrotecher on the next run. I thought that this would free me up a bit to melee and offensive cast a bit more.

Wrong.

It became quickly apparent that the Acrotecher had no interest in support. So I'm still stuck in the role of support. Whatever, I like to support so it's no big deal. Except... I refuse to resta/reverser an Acrotecher who isn't doing their own fair share of the support. So the entire game I'm supporting my team who don't have their own Resta. Needless to say, the Acrotecher dies several times as it's apparently too much of a burden to even resta themselves. Of course, I use Moon atoms to revive them to keep them from going back to the lobby - but that's it.

After Maggas I get flooded with insults from my party for not supporting the Acrogimp and endangering the party, and then booted.

So it doesn't really matter which you chose, but know that if you show even the slightest inclination of support-minded behavior in your playstyle, you're still going to be pidgeonholed into support regardless of your class.

Good luck in whichever you choose.

[Anduril]

On 2008-01-25 18:37, Sinue_v2 wrote:
It's like people in general have just resigned to the idea that Acrotecher is nothing more than a gimped meleer - "ForteWhipper" and look elsewhere for support.
OOOOoooo. I feel all giddy, this is the second time I've seen someone use my Fortewhipper comment.

[Sinue_v2]

Accurate description is accurate.

[Danger_Girl]

I'm always shocked and amazed when I get an AT in a random party that actually plays support. Then again support really is often little more than a convenience in this game.

[Mikura]

AT is designed around support. I'm not sure why there's so many people that are trying to play it as a pure melee job. >_>

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-25 20:42, Mikura wrote:
AT is designed around support. I'm not sure why there's so many people that are trying to play it as a pure melee job. >_>



Because they're sadistic masochists who enjoy nothing more than whipping anything and everything. They really should save that kind of stuff for the bedroom. >_>;

[Helly]

I'd try being an AT myself since I like doing support but the boost techs I just refuse to learn and attempt to use! As a GT/WT I can get away with only using the deboosts but I got a feeling that if I changed to AT I'd be hounded for it x.x

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-25 20:56, Helly wrote:
I'd try being an AT myself since I like doing support but the boost techs I just refuse to learn and attempt to use! As a GT/WT I can get away with only using the deboosts but I got a feeling that if I changed to AT I'd be hounded for it x.x



As long as you're not the type of person to not do ANYTHING but whip, go for it. No one's going to hound you for debuffs, really, might get asked for buffs though.

[Mikura]

On 2008-01-25 21:05, SATatami wrote:

On 2008-01-25 20:56, Helly wrote:
I'd try being an AT myself since I like doing support but the boost techs I just refuse to learn and attempt to use! As a GT/WT I can get away with only using the deboosts but I got a feeling that if I changed to AT I'd be hounded for it x.x



As long as you're not the type of person to not do ANYTHING but whip, go for it. No one's going to hound you for debuffs, really, might get asked for buffs though.



Buffs, you may be expected to do by some but I've never, ever been in a party that demanded debuffs. Nine times out of ten, they aren't needed either. So yeah, go for it I say.

[Helly]

On 2008-01-25 21:16, Mikura wrote:

On 2008-01-25 21:05, SATatami wrote:
As long as you're not the type of person to not do ANYTHING but whip, go for it. No one's going to hound you for debuffs, really, might get asked for buffs though.

Buffs, you may be expected to do by some but I've never, ever been in a party that demanded debuffs. Nine times out of ten, they aren't needed either. So yeah, go for it I say.

You two got it backwards! I do not use boosts (nor do I improperly call them "buffs"). Yeah I know no one ever calls for deboosts but I like using 'em cause I like playing support! Plenty of people use boosts so I use the deboosts as part of my own form of support. Wasting time and an entire spot in my palette for four techs that no matter high level run out pretty fast just wouldn't be fun for me!

[Laranas]

On 2008-01-25 21:38, Helly wrote:

On 2008-01-25 21:16, Mikura wrote:

On 2008-01-25 21:05, SATatami wrote:
As long as you're not the type of person to not do ANYTHING but whip, go for it. No one's going to hound you for debuffs, really, might get asked for buffs though.

Buffs, you may be expected to do by some but I've never, ever been in a party that demanded debuffs. Nine times out of ten, they aren't needed either. So yeah, go for it I say.

You two got it backwards! I do not use boosts (nor do I improperly call them "buffs"). Yeah I know no one ever calls for deboosts but I like using 'em cause I like playing support! Plenty of people use boosts so I use the deboosts as part of my own form of support. Wasting time and an entire spot in my palette for four techs that no matter high level run out pretty fast just wouldn't be fun for me!

Lv31+ boosts give 24% stat boosts for 5 minutes, whereas a Lv31+ deboost would barely effect the monster and would last as long as that mob is alive, which I guarantee is less than 5 minutes. Play as you wish, but I'm someone that has leveled both boosts and deboosts and can clearly see the usefulness in the former.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2008-01-25 21:38, Helly wrote:
(nor do I improperly call them "buffs")


"Buff" is a generic term for any status-enhancing effect or means of causing said effect, in any game. It is accurately applied to Shifta, Deband, Zodial and Retier. The term, "Boost" is discretely applied in-game, but is not part of the broad gamer lexicon. When speaking of general game mechanics, for the sake of more universally understood terminology, "Buff" is the correct word.

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-25 21:56, Laranas wrote:

On 2008-01-25 21:38, Helly wrote:

On 2008-01-25 21:16, Mikura wrote:

On 2008-01-25 21:05, SATatami wrote:
As long as you're not the type of person to not do ANYTHING but whip, go for it. No one's going to hound you for debuffs, really, might get asked for buffs though.

Buffs, you may be expected to do by some but I've never, ever been in a party that demanded debuffs. Nine times out of ten, they aren't needed either. So yeah, go for it I say.

You two got it backwards! I do not use boosts (nor do I improperly call them "buffs"). Yeah I know no one ever calls for deboosts but I like using 'em cause I like playing support! Plenty of people use boosts so I use the deboosts as part of my own form of support. Wasting time and an entire spot in my palette for four techs that no matter high level run out pretty fast just wouldn't be fun for me!

Lv31+ boosts give 24% stat boosts for 5 minutes, whereas a Lv31+ deboost would barely effect the monster and would last as long as that mob is alive, which I guarantee is less than 5 minutes. Play as you wish, but I'm someone that has leveled both boosts and deboosts and can clearly see the usefulness in the former.

24%? It's not 25?

[Laranas]

On 2008-01-25 21:57, SATatami wrote:
24%? It's not 25?

PSUwiki says
Lv1: 9%, 2 minutes
Lv11: 14%, 3 minutes
Lv21: 19%, 4 minutes
Lv31: 24%, 5 minutes

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-25 21:58, Laranas wrote:

On 2008-01-25 21:57, SATatami wrote:
24%? It's not 25?

PSUwiki says
Lv1: 9%, 2 minutes
Lv11: 14%, 3 minutes
Lv21: 19%, 4 minutes
Lv31: 24%, 5 minutes



Humm... I was under the assumption it was 10, 15,20, and 25. Thanks for the info.

[Laranas]

On 2008-01-25 22:01, SATatami wrote:

On 2008-01-25 21:58, Laranas wrote:

On 2008-01-25 21:57, SATatami wrote:
24%? It's not 25?PSUwiki says
Lv1: 11%, 2 minutes (0.5 for Deboost)
Lv11: 15%, 3 minutes (1 for Deboost)
Lv21: 19%, 4 minutes (1.5 for Deboost)
Lv31: 23%, 5 minutes (No mention for Deboost)Humm... I was under the assumption it was 10, 15,20, and 25. Thanks for the info.It's not really a big difference. I'm sure the calculations would bring the damage to nearly the same exact numbers.

Correction: Just checked PSUwiki.. fixed the quote above (not the original post)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Laranas on 2008-01-25 22:07 ]</font>

[Helly]

On 2008-01-25 21:56, Laranas wrote:
Lv31+ boosts give 24% stat boosts for 5 minutes, whereas a Lv31+ deboost would barely effect the monster and would last as long as that mob is alive, which I guarantee is less than 5 minutes. Play as you wish, but I'm someone that has leveled both boosts and deboosts and can clearly see the usefulness in the former.

5 minutes and then I halt the game entirely to gather everyone up to do it again or let them kill while I chase 'em around to re-boost? No fun! Since I primarily play GT/WT anyway the mind-numbingly long time taken to raise them from 1 to 31+ would only make me hate 'em even more!


On 2008-01-25 21:57, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
"Buff" is a generic term for any status-enhancing effect or means of causing said effect, in any game. It is accurately applied to Shifta, Deband, Zodial and Retier. The term, "Boost" is discretely applied in-game, but is not part of the broad gamer lexicon. When speaking of general game mechanics, for the sake of more universally understood terminology, "Buff" is the correct word.

I just go with whatever the game I'm playing calls 'em which in this case in boosts. Besides the only game I've played that uses buff is DQ8 and that's only for the raise defense spells not attack or anything else. I'm universally weird but I don't tell others not to call 'em buffs but I personally never will unless of course Sega goes and re-writes their description text to say buff hehe!

[Protatora]

How is buffs improper... And you know you could just say Buffs/debuffs like everyone else does so we dont get confused..

[SATatami]

Then stay far away from AT. If you're not going to be a team player and play to your fullest, then parties really won't want you. =/

[Laranas]

On 2008-01-25 22:09, Helly wrote:

On 2008-01-25 21:56, Laranas wrote:
Lv31+ boosts give 24% stat boosts for 5 minutes, whereas a Lv31+ deboost would barely effect the monster and would last as long as that mob is alive, which I guarantee is less than 5 minutes. Play as you wish, but I'm someone that has leveled both boosts and deboosts and can clearly see the usefulness in the former.

5 minutes and then I halt the game entirely to gather everyone up to do it again or let them kill while I chase 'em around to re-boost? No fun! Since I primarily play GT/WT anyway the mind-numbingly long time taken to raise them from 1 to 31+ would only make me hate 'em even more!
To raise your boosts to 31+ would take a day or two of your time in a buff party, if you were dedicated to the task. Using a /Quick unit would really help in this process. While the boosts and deboosts give the same % to both party members and monsters, 23% atp on your party members will be a lot more useful than -23% DFP on a monster. The difference is so large you'll probably save much more than the 5-10 seconds you need to reapply the boosts every 5 minutes. That's just one way to look for it.

And gathering them isn't that hard. You can either use a shortcut, or just type "buffs." The majority will flock.

PS: You can't Zalure a boss, but you can Shifta the 6 people fighting him.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Laranas on 2008-01-25 22:34 ]</font>

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-25 22:15, Laranas wrote:

And gathering them isn't that hard. You can either use a shortcut, or just type "buffs." The majority will flock.



Unless they don't. Then they don't get buffs! MUWAHAHA. If they complain about it, it was their fault. >_>



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SATatami on 2008-01-25 22:17 ]</font>

[Shishi-O]

On 2008-01-25 16:59, Zaladin wrote:
Should I change from Wartecher to Acrotecher? I love using my tech weps though.

acrotecher, definately whips are fun, mech gunz too.

the speed boost and lvl 40 buffs= lots and lots of fun.

[Helly]

On 2008-01-25 22:10, Protatora wrote:
How is buffs improper... And you know you could just say Buffs/debuffs like everyone else does so we dont get confused..

Or maybe you guys should quit confusing me by using a term that's not in PSU's text! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


On 2008-01-25 22:12, SATatami wrote:
Then stay far away from AT. If you're not going to be a team player and play to your fullest, then parties really won't want you. =/

Whaaaat? I exclusively play support classes and I'm not a team player?? >.<


On 2008-01-25 22:17, SATatami wrote:
Unless they don't. Then they don't get buffs! MUWAHAHA. If they complain about it, it was their fault. >_>

But even if they were a little bit slow or dumb or whatever I'd feel bad for not boosting 'em. -_-;



Anyway I guess the verdict is in: Super Helly should not get to try being an AT! So there!

[beatrixkiddo]

Make sure you have the VIIF Buff, Giresta. It's really useful, especially when the healing stacks and negates some damage. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Laranas]

On 2008-01-25 22:34, beatrixkiddo wrote:
Make sure you have the VIIF Buff, Giresta. It's really useful, especially when the healing stacks and negates some damage. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

I'm tempted to smack that http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif off your face for using VIIF http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[SATatami]

Focusing on the WEAKER aspect of support isn't exactly being a support player. Being support is buffing, debuffing, healing HP and status effects, as well as applying SEs when applicable. You can't call yourself a support player if you only do one out of the five. And as for the word "buff", there is NO way it's improper. If anything, you should be the one quitting trying to confuse people. Just because it's not in PSU's text doesn't mean it belongs to a class of skills.

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-25 22:34, beatrixkiddo wrote:
Make sure you have the VIIF Buff, Giresta. It's really useful, especially when the healing stacks and negates some damage. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



I lol'd so hard.

[Mewnie]

On 2008-01-25 21:57, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:

On 2008-01-25 21:38, Helly wrote:
(nor do I improperly call them "buffs")


"Buff" is a generic term for any status-enhancing effect or means of causing said effect, in any game. It is accurately applied to Shifta, Deband, Zodial and Retier. The term, "Boost" is discretely applied in-game, but is not part of the broad gamer lexicon. When speaking of general game mechanics, for the sake of more universally understood terminology, "Buff" is the correct word.



So true. It's a very long-standing MMO term used to describe those type of spells/abilities.

You need to lay off the bad crack, Helly |3

[Helly]

On 2008-01-25 22:34, beatrixkiddo wrote:
Make sure you have the VIIF Buff, Giresta. It's really useful, especially when the healing stacks and negates some damage. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

meow? Giresta stacks? So if I use it like a million times I'll be immortal until it wears out?? O.O


On 2008-01-25 22:36, SATatami wrote:
Focusing on the WEAKER aspect of support isn't exactly being a support player. Being support is buffing, debuffing, healing HP and status effects, as well as applying SEs when applicable. You can't call yourself a support player if you only do one out of the five.

The deboosts are status effects~ Beyond those my Resta is at 20, Giresta 30, Reverser 24, and I can silence/burn/freeze/shock/poison/charm/sleep (when vish tien feels like it)/confuse and virus. 4 outta 5 ain't bad is it? If everyone played exactly the same it'd just be no fun! Helly-brand support may sound confusing and weird but that's exactly how the person using them is! And no ones complained outloud so far~


On 2008-01-25 22:53, Mewnie wrote:
So true. It's a very long-standing MMO term used to describe those type of spells/abilities.

I never played an MMORPG before so I'm not part of that club and as such dunno its terminology nor do I really need to since I don't play 'em. And besides that PSU is technically an MORPG anyhow. Do other MORPG's use the term buff? Obviously I dunno cause like I mentioned before I only saw it used in one game, a regular old RPG at that. Call it whatcha want and I'll stick with what the game gives me, but in the end the effects are still the same!

[beatrixkiddo]

No. If you use Giresta and have full HP, each "tick" that it would have healed, saves up. So then when you finally DO take damage, all that saved HP will come back and heal you instantly.

[Aviva]

I am a wartecher....i leveled AT to like...12 i think and eh...it was ok i suppose...but i DO NOT want to be a support class and i felt it my duty to do so with the ability to have the lvl 40 buffs and such(not that you have to...its just how i felt) BUT i also like to tear shit up everyonce in a while...

so yea long story short like everyone said....lvl AT to at least 10 (since it goes so fast) see if its your thing....if not go back to WT and live happily ever after k?

[Cz]

just play both classes. Give each one a chance.

[zandra117]

Im an Acrotecher and I was in a party yesterday where someone demanded that the party leader boot me because I was barely doing more than 200 damage per hit with my whips.

I guess he failed to realize that the reason why the enemies were not smacking him around or casting spells from across the room was because of my whips effect, the reason he was always buffed was because of me, the reason all the enemies were affected by zalure was because of me, and the reason his HP was never too low was because of me.

At least the leader had some common sense and booted him for demanding such a crazy thing, plus the whiner started to mechgun glitch.

People really need to pay more attention to whats going on before they demand a boot. So what if my damage was low, look at those status effects, the enemies are crippled and you are completely buffed.

Also whats up with fighters demanding retier? Im the only techer in the party and you dont really need it. I only use retier with my attack magic for situations that my 30% Dark Jitseen cant handle.

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-25 23:59, zandra117 wrote:
Im an Acrotecher and I was in a party yesterday where someone demanded that the party leader boot me because I was barely doing more than 200 damage per hit with my whips.

I guess he failed to realize that the reason why the enemies were not smacking him around or casting spells from across the room was because of my whips effect, the reason he was always buffed was because of me, the reason all the enemies were affected by zalure was because of me, and the reason his HP was never too low was because of me.

At least the leader had some common sense and booted him for demanding such a crazy thing, plus the whiner started to mechgun glitch.

People really need to pay more attention to whats going on before they demand a boot. So what if my damage was low, look at those status effects, the enemies are crippled and you are completely buffed.

Also whats up with fighters demanding retier? Im the only techer in the party and you dont really need it. I only use retier with my attack magic for situations that my 30% Dark Jitseen cant handle.



Shadoogs.

[beatrixkiddo]

RCSM damage is so insignificant, it's not even funny.

[JarinKail]

On 2008-01-26 00:13, beatrixkiddo wrote:
RCSM damage is so insignificant, it's not even funny.



Um, what? No, it's hardly insignificant.

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-26 05:35, JarinKail wrote:

On 2008-01-26 00:13, beatrixkiddo wrote:
RCSM damage is so insignificant, it's not even funny.



Um, what? No, it's hardly insignificant.



This is compared to the 2k per hit of a AT's Spinning Strike, mayhaps? if soo, the 100~300 of each shot hardly counts. But it's welcome. Any addition damage is welcome. =X

[Sharon]

Who cares how much dmg he's doing? He's ****ing supporting as best as he can.

[Chaosgyro]

Also whats up with fighters demanding retier?

The MST helps against the spells being thrown at them.