New player confusion.

[Tilye]

I have been playing since December 22 2007. I know this is a very sort time, but I am still very confused. Perhaps some one can clear up some of my questions.

So I started out playing a beast forte fighter, I enjoyed claws, but also played with twin sabers and spears. My damage output did not seem to be up to far with what other people were causing. So I choose to start over, I made a Cast. I took the forte gunner profession to 15. I tried to buy the best weapons I could afford. After a few days of play my Rifle bullet (dark) was at 17 and my Phantom was 7/10 upgraded with a phantom line. I also had several other weapons. All were at least 3/10, nothing was stock. Once again my damage did not seem to be any thing of note. Once again I tried to better my self. I changed professions to figgunner, it was at this point I looted some valuable boards and had a little more money under my belt.

I purchased a storm line, hard / night, three crea doubles 35% elemental or higher (Dark, Ice, Fire) I got a 30% crimson, 38% two-headed ragnus 3 different buccaneers all 20%+ elemental and a set of Arb Bisos 7/10. My bullets are 20-23. The saber Pa’s are 24+ and Absolute dance is 18. Again my damage is minimal.

My toon is level 100, Figunner 15, Fortegunner 15, Hunter 10, Ranger 10, and Force 5. I just do not understand what I am doing wrong.

If any one has any advice I would welcome it, I just do not understand how DPS is calculated based on weapon, damage, level and Pa.

[SabZero]

Who are you comparing yourself to? IIRC, male beast Fortefighter should be the most damge outputting possible of all the race/class combinations.

People also use units and agtaride/shifta to boost ATP

[Zorafim]

I'm confused too. How are you a new player?

My only suggestion is to get a spear, and buy majarra. That is, bar none, the best source of damage against a single enemy.

[Pengfishh]

You're level 100 and calling yourself a new player? Has the Winter Event ruined us so much? I am a level 100 player and have been playing for over a year...

[Dragwind]

On 2008-01-26 12:34, Zorafim wrote:
I'm confused too. How are you a new player?

My only suggestion is to get a spear, and buy majarra. That is, bar none, the best source of damage against a single enemy.



There are easily other less time consuming and PP consuming choices for single targets, but Majarra is devastating on multiple targets.

[Retniwreven]

Eat more Spinach.

Seriously, though, look for high damage mod PAs. Even a 10-20% difference can be huge if your base ATP is high. Majarra is indeed a sickeningly painful PA, and probably what I use most for soloing.

The new Twin Claw PA starts at 210% mod or so as well, and may look silly, but is actually quite useful for large mobs that rotate in place and then proceed to punch you across the room - you can spin around them while using it and still connect.

Rising strike is nice for knocking things down that would otherwise tech you / pain you, and does rather decent damage as well.

Also, Fortegunners won't ever have the same 'LOL BIG NUMBARS' syndrome that a Fortefighter will see with most of their weaponry, and while Fighgunners have it better, they still lack in the ATP department compared to FF.

Frankly, if you want to see big numbers for the sake of big numbers? Anga Jabroga.

[Bliven]

PA levels are the most important thing for damage.

[JAFO22000]

Being that you've only had the game a little over a month, I assume that your PA levels are garbage. This may be your problem

[Yeevs]

I'm agreeing with JAFO on this: heck, I fall in that category.

Level 85, AT 15, only been around for a couple or few weeks. PA levels are just as important as levels and type levels because PAs are the source of damage. Naturally, a 1-year veteran will have more powerful PAs at higher levels.

And the Winter Event made leveling and type leveling ridiculously easy. I'm taking a pause from the AT to work my PT alt. PA levels can come any time, but opportunities like this are not to be skipped!



Back to topic: find the good PAs (S2 missions or S-ranking on ep.2 and ep.3 mishs from HQ for the fragments) and level them. Some PAs are good to lay the hurt... some are designed more to save bacon than make bacon.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Yeevs on 2008-01-26 13:22 ]</font>

[Tilye]

I am not a casual gamer by any means of the word. When I gave up on my beast she was level 69 and Fortefigher 12.

Perhaps I have just not played enough to fully understand what types of numbers I should be getting. As follows is a list of Pa’s and levels. Yes they are not very high as I have not wanted to spend time leveling a Pa that will never be combat viable.

Spiral Dance 14
Absolute dance 18 (I have worked on this skill because I like how the animation plays)
Assault crush 13
Gravity strike 26 (One hand saber seems to be the only skill that accually does damage)
Rising strike 14

DarkShot 16
Burning Shot 16
Boma Megia 20
Twin Dark 19
Dark Furry 17

As follows are the stats from the stats sheet screen.

Hp 2584
Atp 1190
Ata 501
Tp 465
Dfp 249
Evp 259
Mst 104
Sta 12

If it’s merely a question of needing to level pa then I can deal with that. It just seems information is limited, and asking other players is nearly impossible since the chat is limited to 5 words.
Thank you all for your advice and help thuss far.

[Anduril]

As long as you're doing damage it really doesn't matter how much is being done. The thing is that everyone tries to get "RAWR! BIG NUMBARZ!" when in reality all you really need to do is get lots of hits in. Plus some people may just be popping Agtarides *coughsteroidscough* to boost their Damage output.

[Rasputin]

Maybe you're not using the whole Just Attack system. That really, really helps damage output.

[DAMASCUS]

I have a cast and have the same problem with damage output. Being a cast tends to put you a bit behind in the DPS department. The other thing is to make sure you are keeping up on your weapon synthing. If you are able to get some high percents on a couple diffierent weapons that can really help; against the right enemies of course.

The good news is that with a CAST fortefighter you can connect more with powerful PAs with a low ATA mod like Gravity Break

[EMPYREAN]

On 2008-01-26 13:31, Rasputin wrote:
Maybe you're not using the whole Just Attack system. That really, really helps damage output.



i agree on that. when i use just attack on my pa attack my total dmg goes upp by 500- 1500 depending on what wep and pa i use. and 21 skills allso help.

[SATatami]

This is what you need to do in order to up your damage output.

1. Level your character. You still have like 30 levels to go, my man.
2. Level your job. 3 more levels to go. Stats go up by %.
3. Level your photon arts. This will REALLY help since they're %.
4. Possibly branch out into using new weapon types. Fortefighters can use all but one striking weapon. I would at least give each weapon type a chance by getting a PA in it to 21. Do ask around for assistance on which PAs define the type or not. Some are insanely great (Dus Daggas, Dus Robado, Dus Majarra... all three of the spear PAs are absolutely fantastic.) or the god awful. (Only ones that really comes to mind is Twin Claw Bukuu and Assault Crush before it hits 21)
5. Try expanding into similar classes if you still can't fit the bill. They might have access to weapons that could give you the edge you need. (Fighgunner's Double Sabers and Acrofighter's S rank Slicers.)
6. JUST ATTACK, JUST ATTACK, JUST ATTACK. I apologize for the caps, but it can't be stressed enough. If you want to deal damage, Just Attack. Take the time. Learn all the combos for your weapons. Practice. Do it until you can Just Attack a 3hit combo into a 3 hit PA with little effort. Trust me, the rewards are worth it, as pretty numbers will fly.
7. More photon arts. There are some ultimate ones that rock the house for damage. (Majarra, Jabroga, Gravity Break) If you don't know what are strong, just ask for people's opinions on it.
8. Grind. Nuff said.
9. Higher % weapons nuff said.
10. There IS no ten.



EDIT: OI. So many typing errors! I'm tired. Lemme alone, yaddayadda. Anyways, if following the above 10-step plan doesn't help you at all, then you're expecting your damage to be too much. Just try to chillax with a bunch of PA leveling runs and go from there, eh?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SATatami on 2008-01-26 15:09 ]</font>

[biggabertha]

Well.... Aside from the Lance, the next best sources of damage are Axes and Grenade Launchers. Anga Jabroga Lv. 30/40 creates insane amounts of damage and Boma Duranga 1 is the same damage modifier as Boma Banga 30ish. If you're after huge damage at a cost, those two PAs at a respectable level (over Lv. 20 ideally) will create huge amounts of damage.

If you jsut want fast damage though, get 30 PA Fragments, go to Moatoob's GUARDIAN's Branch and snag yourself Dus Majarra, grab a set of elemental Muktrands all over 20% and you'll be dealing huge amounts of damage in no time even without Just Attacking the combos.

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-26 15:08, biggabertha wrote:
Well.... Aside from the Lance, the next best sources of damage are Axes and Grenade Launchers. Anga Jabroga Lv. 30/40 creates insane amounts of damage and Boma Duranga 1 is the same damage modifier as Boma Banga 30ish. If you're after huge damage at a cost, those two PAs at a respectable level (over Lv. 20 ideally) will create huge amounts of damage.

If you jsut want fast damage though, get 30 PA Fragments, go to Moatoob's GUARDIAN's Branch and snag yourself Dus Majarra, grab a set of elemental Muktrands all over 20% and you'll be dealing huge amounts of damage in no time even without Just Attacking the combos.



On that note, I'm having trouble Just Attacking Dus Majarra, since it's kinda on-topic. Anyways, female version. for the stab part, you have to Just Attack right before both hands are back on the spear... But I can't seem to get down the just attack on the home run swing. Little help here? Also, on the male version too, since I haven't had a chance to try it yet and I'm about to give it to my male WT...

[DAMASCUS]

On the guy version I just hit the button as soon as I'm at the lowest point in the crouch from coming down off of the second part.

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-26 15:17, DAMASCUS wrote:
On the guy version I just hit the button as soon as I'm at the lowest point in the crouch from coming down off of the second part.



EDIT: Oh. I get it now. I misread crouch as crotch. "I just hit the button as soon as I'm at the lowest point in the crotch!" Anyways, the 2nd and 3rd combos are unisex, right? So it should work for both?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SATatami on 2008-01-26 15:19 ]</font>

[Tilye]

I have been attempting to learn the combo's on double sabers, as well as twins. Guess I am just not nailing down every thing. I was just very conserned about damage. When you are hitting things for 350-400 a swing and see some one doing 800 you begin to search for a reason why. Yet I rarly see people using a double saber or even playing as a figgunner. In all the previous games I have played, this ment that the class was under powered or broken. I guess I will just have to use the last weeks of the winter event to max my level at 120 and then work on getting frags and Pa levels. Thank you all for the infromation and advice.

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-26 15:28, Tilye wrote:
I have been attempting to learn the combo's on double sabers, as well as twins. Guess I am just not nailing down every thing. I was just very conserned about damage. When you are hitting things for 350-400 a swing and see some one doing 800 you begin to search for a reason why. Yet I rarly see people using a double saber or even playing as a figgunner. In all the previous games I have played, this ment that the class was under powered or broken. I guess I will just have to use the last weeks of the winter event to max my level at 120 and then work on getting frags and Pa levels. Thank you all for the infromation and advice.



No prob. DS's are somewhat hard to combo. Admittedly, all I have is Spiral Dance to 21. Nice damage PA, from what I've seen. Are you seen the 800 damage from the same weapon type and weapon as you? If so, you shouldn't really worry about doing only 300 damage on the first hit of spiral compared to someone's first any only hit of jabroga. =/

[Retniwreven]

But Jabroga hits twice in one swing. ;_;

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-26 15:38, Retniwreven wrote:
But Jabroga hits twice in one swing. ;_;



That's not the point. Spiral Dance hits 3 times in the first swing... >_> You get what I'm saying though. =X Honestly, my spiral dance does 300~400 a hit right now on the first combo, unjust-attacked cuz I can't combo off the the first reg attack for crap. If someone comes in and hits 900 with the same first combo... It can only meant one thing. 50% weapon. And in that case, don't even bother worrying about it. it's out of your hands. Oh, and for FIs and AFs, you can lower def with Twin Mayalee, so that could very well up your damage well. That is, unless it take 2 years to switch weapons like PS2 players. *shudders at the thought of PS2 PSU again*



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SATatami on 2008-01-26 15:45 ]</font>

[Retniwreven]

Aah, but my point about Jabroga is... Massive attack modifier PA on a 1300+ (S-Rank) ATP axe times two hits (AoE too), or six/seven ish hits of a 400-500 Atp weapon. People like the big numbers even if you can hit more times in a shorter span with something else, because it makes them feel more macho. XD

Although.. I've never directly used Jabroga, only seen the impact crater. I tend to use Majarra / Dual/Single AoI claw PAs / Rising Strike / etc.

[Ken_Silver]

Satatami's 10 tips to getting strong sound good. I should follow them as well. Thanks for the tips and to the TC for a very useful thread.

PS: I love the TC's signature line. Very well written. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[EngelBlut]

i have a cast i do over 2k per pa.. like 600 per bullet with my kubara rifle(thats right im s kubara cast).. my old beast just hit nothing ever so i deleted it and made a human.. your problim is that you thought a beast was a good idea

[DreXxiN]

I try to make sure all my weapons are 8* if AoI and 9* otherwise or above. 30%+ in elements helps ALOT too.

[EngelBlut]

all of mine are normaly 9*+ and 50%

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-26 16:10, Ken_Silver wrote:
Satatami's 10 tips to getting strong sound good. I should follow them as well. Thanks for the tips and to the TC for a very useful thread.

PS: I love the TC's signature line. Very well written. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



Yeah. That's pretty much all you can do in the game to make yourself better. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Oh and *coughcough* It's early in the morning and I'm too lazy to hit up Urban Dictionary. Wut TC mean?

[Edgard]

Let me get this straight... you probably make hits of 2k but you saw someone make a hit of 4k-5k and now you want to match him or even surpass him?

Just feel lucky that you have reached that level so fast! Your problem is that your PA's suck level them to 40, but you don't need 4k hits... everything dies so goddamn fast that it really doesn't matter.

Just have a good time playing and please stop trying to be the guy that kills everything in the room before teammates tag the mobs for exp... Those guys annoy a lot of players, you know the dude who always uses dus majarra and only owns spears.

FYI

Beast/fortefighter - for beginner players (a lot of HP and hi damage)
Casts/fortegunner - for intermediate players
Newman/fortetecher - for advance players who actually know how to play and dodge (low hp, not so hi damage, long time to lv pa's)

Sooner or later, being a beast will be too easy to play this game. As for me I have one of each, including a human. In my personal opinion, I prefer Newmans because its a challenge to keep everyone alive while attacking and dodging (most mobs kill you in 2-3 hits)... so it makes the game far more interesting that with a beast. And no I do not frustrate over doing 4 k hits, because I take a priority in the team not who kills the most.

[Sekani]

If you're worried that much about damage, keep in mind first of all that all weapons and Photon Arts are not created equal. For example, double sabers are best on multiple targets, daggers are about many, many small attacks that add up to a significant amount of damage, and axes are the slow weapons that'll get you those big giant numbers that look real pretty in screenshots. Be realistic about your expectations, especially when comparing the damage output of two people using different weapons. If you're hitting for 350 and your teammate is hitting for 800, who's attacking the fastest? Who's hitting the most targets?

Beyond that, some generic tips:

First, learn the Exact Attack (aka Just Attack) system. If you time your button presses right as your character's attack animation ends, you'll see a yellow flash and your attack will do roughly 50% more damage. The timing is different for each weapon and PA so you'll have to practice, but you can look up some Youtube videos to get an idea of how the timing works.

Second, level up your PAs. The higher level your PA is, the more damage you'll do and the less you'll miss with it. Simple.

Thirdly, make sure your weapons have decent elemental percentages. A weapon with 38% fire will do significantly more damage against ice creatures than one of another element.

Lastly you could go for grinding your weapons or making sure you have stuff with the best ATP, but if you've done the first three things you'll find that the gains you get from this aren't worth the effort.

Good luck!

[physic]

if you want a challenge with fortefighter beast play a high level without a healer, or 5 other people. not nearly as easy or hax as everyone thinks

also as far as dmg,i have no proof but my feeling is the formula goes something like this


(atp without weapon X pa modifier)+((weapon atp+weapon atp x elemental% against enemy)x pa modifer)

defense comes in somehow after all that annd 1 atp doesnt equal 1 dmg, but if you have 5 times the whole atp(for that whole equation) of someone, your still going to do almost 5 times the dmg barring high def types
PA levels are very improtant for dmg, even in the lower cases, your generally talking about at least 40% atp difference from 1 to 40 as almost every pa gains 1 % per level at least. some go by 2s some stay at 1 then jump, some go by 7%s, some jump alot at the 11 21 31 levels. point being, you cant judge a PA by what it is at level 11, level 11 jabroga isnt impressive at all, level 40 impresses most. some pas start good and dont improve much, some start average and get a lot better. also the % they tell you on the pa, is only the % for the first part of the chain, some have sucky 1st parts and godly 2nd or 3rd hits, you jut shave to try the skills and see, or study a lot of charts.
as you can see from the equation, pa levels are probably going to have a large effect on your dmg, base atp also is big, that is effected by your race, your job type your job level and exp level, however theres not much you can do about that once you ve made a class. weapon % effect will vary greatly with how strong the base dmg of your weapon is, and the multiplier of the pa. but consider in some cases lower numbers a lot more often can beat big slow numbers

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: physic on 2008-01-27 09:57 ]</font>

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-27 09:41, physic wrote:
if you want a challenge with fortefighter beast play a high level without a healer, or 5 other people. not nearly as easy or hax as everyone thinks



I can testify against that. I can solo many a S2 and AOI S without much difficulty.

[physic]

go to hive, s2 is just a name, what is the enemy types and levels is the most important thing

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-27 09:59, physic wrote:
go to hive, s2 is just a name, what is the enemy types and levels is the most important thing



I can solo that pretty easily, with the exception of fakis. I'm not saying it goes FAST, no, but I have no problem fighting the monsters. That's right, not even the mages.

EDIT: A lot of the problems I see with other Fortefighters is that they LET themselves get hit. They walk into dambarta. They stand still and chikki while 7 megids come flying at them. Learn how to dodge, and the game's your bitch. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SATatami on 2008-01-27 10:05 ]</font>

[physic]

i think your idea of no trouble is probably different from most people, most people find hive to be too much trouble even with 3 or 4 people. takes me about 40-55 min depending on map and about 2 to 3 sets of heals, where my PT is about 50-1hr 5 minutes and is lower level with lower PAs and uses way less heal items. my af is similar at an even lower level.

unless your talking about TD which solo is only like 50 mobs, and most times only 3 mages in the whole level, so of course it wont be too tough

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-27 10:09, physic wrote:
i think your idea of no trouble is probably different from most people, most people find hive to be too much trouble even with 3 or 4 people. takes me about 40-55 min depending on map and about 2 to 3 sets of heals, where my PT is about 50-1hr 5 minutes and is lower level with lower PAs and uses way less heal items. my af is similar at an even lower level.

unless your talking about TD which solo is only like 50 mobs, and most times only 3 mages in the whole level, so of course it wont be too tough



Too tough is running out of all 3 types of mates and scapes and having to pull stars out of your ass to heal. For me at least.And I've never done True Darkness. I'm talking about that first hive mission on S2... The OLD SCHOOL one. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif That people hunt BH at.

But yeah, if you switch to AF, you can solo anything. I've soloed both onma and dimma on S2 in the winter event in under 10 minutes. >_>; They're weak as hell if you can nail em with cards.

[Pengfishh]

Nail 'em with Cards, then nail 'em with Buten. That was my wreckin' formula.

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-27 14:54, Pengfishh wrote:
Nail 'em with Cards, then nail 'em with Buten. That was my wreckin' formula.



Aye, aye. AFs tend to prefer Shadoogs over cards, but man. Those cards kick ASS.

[Pengfishh]

I piss on the hats of everyone who hates on Cards.

[beatrixkiddo]

I don't hate cards, but they're too situational for me to bother with levelling http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-27 16:21, beatrixkiddo wrote:
I don't hate cards, but they're too situational for me to bother with levelling http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif



Humm. Well, they're quite powerful without their pretty situation. if I align elements on em, then I hit for like, 1500~1800 a shot. That's not a bad alternative to the 500 damage your handgun does...

[beatrixkiddo]

I don't use handguns http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

The only classes I use that can use Cards are Acrofighter, Acrotecher, and Guntecher. And in all cases, they can use twin handguns, which a) I have levelled, b) I have nicely grinded weapons of, and c) er... dunno, but just having a and b would be weird, wouldn't it?

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-27 16:56, beatrixkiddo wrote:
I don't use handguns http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

The only classes I use that can use Cards are Acrofighter, Acrotecher, and Guntecher. And in all cases, they can use twin handguns, which a) I have levelled, b) I have nicely grinded weapons of, and c) er... dunno, but just having a and b would be weird, wouldn't it?



A) So twins aren't just as situational? >.>At least in my experiences, they're every bit as situation as cards. =/

B) Good point. >.>

C) Actually, yes.

[beatrixkiddo]

No, because twins are usable by more classes than cards are. :|

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-27 17:01, beatrixkiddo wrote:
No, because twins are usable by more classes than cards are. :|



But they're not as sexy. :3