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Leahcim
Jan 28, 2008, 01:38 AM
Increasing HP doesn't always help... we still kill them way too fast!

The winter event brought this to light for me more than ever. So, list some reasonable ideas to make boss either harder in general or simply less easily murdered by melee-er's.

Thunder Dragon -
- All attacks faster than De Ragan
- Higher rate of shock status effect.

Agaha (the light mech thing) -
- Give it much better Resta,
- Give it Giresta and D1zas also. Make his Dizas shield for 9 hits.
- When Teleports, three of it apear on the map where two are illusions that dissapear when hit multiple times (but can still hurt you)

De Ragnus
- Make its damn breath attacks attualy hit!

De Ragnus Reskin
- Make the 'sprites' do more damage
- Make it shoot more than 2 'ghosts' at a time
- Give it Megid and Regrant (to use at the same time)

De Rol Le
- Make the bomb parasites actually hurt bad!
- Give it Melee Resistance.

All the other bosses I think are at the dificulty level that they should be at.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Leahcim on 2008-01-27 22:40 ]</font>

beatrixkiddo
Jan 28, 2008, 01:39 AM
What's Degaz?

Leahcim
Jan 28, 2008, 01:40 AM
Sorry, I meant Dizas

JaiBlue
Jan 28, 2008, 01:51 AM
All the dragons in this game are slow, predictable, and borderline retarded. But hey, any game has it's AI limits, it's all a matter of figuring out how your gonna humiliate them next.

GuardianElite
Jan 28, 2008, 01:54 AM
Give them some Viagra?

Africa
Jan 28, 2008, 02:09 AM
undo the speed nerf? this game has been beaten with nerf bats and you can really tell but undoing some nerfs is a good start.

icewyrm
Jan 28, 2008, 02:20 AM
Well, they could just nerf melee classes, would that do it for you? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

GuardianElite
Jan 28, 2008, 02:22 AM
On 2008-01-27 23:20, icewyrm wrote:
Well, they could just nerf melee classes, would that do it for you? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



ever tried melee vs. Magas

icewyrm
Jan 28, 2008, 02:54 AM
It was a joke (a bad one I guess); personally I think anything they might do to make bosses more challenging, would just make them more frustrating/annoying/irritating instead (flying boss that hardly ever stops moving anyone?)

Miyoko
Jan 28, 2008, 03:23 AM
Make ever boss Magas. HUZZAH!

Kerschweiser
Jan 28, 2008, 03:26 AM
On 2008-01-27 23:22, GuardianElite wrote:

On 2008-01-27 23:20, icewyrm wrote:
Well, they could just nerf melee classes, would that do it for you? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



ever tried melee vs. Magas



'nado Dance. nuff said.

Yoshi_Ayarane
Jan 28, 2008, 04:17 AM
There really... isn't much you can do to increase the difficulty of the bosses, sadly. Not without crossing the border dividing "challenging" and "tedious." And PSU has already done that in some places (see: Magas and Onma/Dimma).

The only thing that can be done is to increase the variety of bosses. But, as we've seen, the devs aren't interested in that as they are throwing a bunch of reskins at us. While this is likely because they have to design around the limitaiton of the PS2 (with its lack of significant storage space for patch content), part of me is inclined to think that even without that limitation in place the devs would STILL opt for the "lawl reskin" option. >.>;

MSAksion
Jan 28, 2008, 04:55 AM
I"m thinking a boss that can split up into multiple parts. Like a squadron of walking tanks or a sqaud of transforming mech fighter jets? Then when weakened they combine into some awesome MEGAZORD or something =/

How bout a SPIDER MECH - to freak out those who are arachnophobic (like me) It can crawl and walk on walls and ceilings and to annoy people it would shoot webbing to trap you if you step on it. And it would throw out baby spiders that would act like Ageeta or Naval - just small annoying monsters that aren't a real threat then...

..sudenly the spider bot drops down with an area crush radial attack.

...wait just forget the MECH part - make this a living boss of some neudaiz Forrest Mission. I'm tired of fighting the same Onmagoug over and over. Its a forrest - give me a SEED infected SPIDER, SNAKE, JAGUAR, or CROCODILE of some kind =/

1) Dragon. 2) Robot. 3) Flying Demon. 4..DUAL HEADED dragon. That's all we got?

Neith
Jan 28, 2008, 05:04 AM
Even if you gave Adahna Dizas/Rentis that absorbed 9 hits, it wouldn't be enough. 9 hits is about one Daggas combo- hardly worth even having it really. The major factor in why Adahna dies so fast is because of the bug? that allows you to get stuck between its rear fins, and Daggas/Redda him to death.

Giresta would be somewhat useless- the time taken to cast it wouldn't aid the boss, and its unlikely the regen would replenish Adahna's HP fast enough when he's taking concentrated Daggas spam.

As far as the illusions go, I think you're referencing the Gol Dragon from PSO. It'd be interesting, but 3 Adahnas wouldn't really be any harder than one http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

As for giving De Rol melee resistance.. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif As if it isn't already annoying enough (De Rol stays away from raft for most of the fight anyway).

It is annoying though, Magas is the only vaguely challenging boss, and even it dies fast. I don't even see them as boss fights- just bigger mobs that take marginally longer to kill than oh, a Polty. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

I'm not trying to pick your post apart but I'm struggling to see how some of these ideas would work practically in-game.

Syl
Jan 28, 2008, 05:21 AM
On 2008-01-28 01:17, Yoshi_Ayarane wrote:
There really... isn't much you can do to increase the difficulty of the bosses, sadly. Not without crossing the border dividing "challenging" and "tedious."


Good point. I don't want bosses that are annoying as hell because they never stay put or they are constantly just flying around.

The first time I fought Fakis' second form I was like OH SHI. It was an exciting fight, I specifically remember being on the edge of my seat the whole time. But now... it's just bland. I don't know why, but to this day, fighting Dark Falz on Ult mode in PSO is STILL an exciting fight. The music, the surrouding area, Falz itself. Everything about it just has that do or die feeling to it.

I guess reskinning the hell out of bosses is taking away from it. I'm not one to complain about PSU's faults, but if it's anything, it's the boss reskinning that just upsets me.

darkante
Jan 28, 2008, 05:42 AM
On 2008-01-28 01:55, MSAksion wrote:
I"m thinking a boss that can split up into multiple parts. Like a squadron of walking tanks or a sqaud of transforming mech fighter jets? Then when weakened they combine into some awesome MEGAZORD or something =/

How bout a SPIDER MECH - to freak out those who are arachnophobic (like me) It can crawl and walk on walls and ceilings and to annoy people it would shoot webbing to trap you if you step on it. And it would throw out baby spiders that would act like Ageeta or Naval - just small annoying monsters that aren't a real threat then...

..sudenly the spider bot drops down with an area crush radial attack.

...wait just forget the MECH part - make this a living boss of some neudaiz Forrest Mission. I'm tired of fighting the same Onmagoug over and over. Its a forrest - give me a SEED infected SPIDER, SNAKE, JAGUAR, or CROCODILE of some kind =/

1) Dragon. 2) Robot. 3) Flying Demon. 4..DUAL HEADED dragon. That's all we got?


Actually i love your spider boss idea.

It would make it hard to hit seeing it would move constantly.

"Hunter" would be a no-no against it seeing it only comes down when doing the drop and then it´s only there for a moment.

"Ranger" have to guess where to hit it.

"Forces"..well hard time as well.

Skye-Fox713
Jan 28, 2008, 06:41 AM
On 2008-01-28 01:55, MSAksion wrote:
I"m thinking a boss that can split up into multiple parts. Like a squadron of walking tanks or a sqaud of transforming mech fighter jets? Then when weakened they combine into some awesome MEGAZORD or something =/

How bout a SPIDER MECH - to freak out those who are arachnophobic (like me) It can crawl and walk on walls and ceilings and to annoy people it would shoot webbing to trap you if you step on it. And it would throw out baby spiders that would act like Ageeta or Naval - just small annoying monsters that aren't a real threat then...

..sudenly the spider bot drops down with an area crush radial attack.

...wait just forget the MECH part - make this a living boss of some neudaiz Forrest Mission. I'm tired of fighting the same Onmagoug over and over. Its a forrest - give me a SEED infected SPIDER, SNAKE, JAGUAR, or CROCODILE of some kind =/

1) Dragon. 2) Robot. 3) Flying Demon. 4..DUAL HEADED dragon. That's all we got?


I really like ur idea about the Seed infected spider, espesaly with what the Illumans are doing and such(it could be one of their weapons)

and don't forget the fith one 5)Dulk Fakis

RemiusTA
Jan 28, 2008, 06:48 AM
ST seems to really be lazy when it comes to bosses on this game. They did good with the orginal set, and the AotI ones are an upgrade, but there is no reason there should have been any reskins in AotI.

We're all eager to see what the Ep.3 bosses are like (if there even are any we havent seen yet instead of the final boss), but if its a reskin, ill have lost all hope in any other expansions beating out this one.


I would LOVE to see some kind of infected baskilisk or something for Neudaiz that burrows underground and stuns you with an Eye attack or something. That would be so fucking awesome.

pokefiend
Jan 28, 2008, 06:59 AM
On 2008-01-28 03:48, RemiusTA wrote:
ST seems to really be lazy when it comes to bosses on this game. They did good with the orginal set, and the AotI ones are an upgrade, but there is no reason there should have been any reskins in AotI.

Other than the very limited space a PS2 can hold? >.>


On 2008-01-28 03:41, Skye-Fox713 wrote:

On 2008-01-28 01:55, MSAksion wrote:
1) Dragon. 2) Robot. 3) Flying Demon. 4..DUAL HEADED dragon. That's all we got?

and don't forget the fith one 5)Dulk Fakis

And 6) De Role Le

SATatami
Jan 28, 2008, 07:10 AM
On 2008-01-28 03:59, pokefiend wrote:


Other than the very limited space a PS2 can hold? >.>



Very limited? Aren't the disks like, 3 gig? I hardly can imagine that's "limited." Very few games actually NEED a second disk. Only one I can think of would be Star Ocean 3...

Shiro_Ryuu
Jan 28, 2008, 07:13 AM
How about they just replace every single attack the bosses have with Megid?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2008-01-28 04:14 ]</font>

Jife_Jifremok
Jan 28, 2008, 07:49 AM
On 2008-01-28 01:17, Yoshi_Ayarane wrote:
There really... isn't much you can do to increase the difficulty of the bosses, sadly. Not without crossing the border dividing "challenging" and "tedious." And PSU has already done that in some places (see: Magas and Onma/Dimma).

The only thing that can be done is to increase the variety of bosses.

Quoted for truth. But these bosses need to NOT SUCK. I have some ideas in my head but most of them are STAYING in my head...just in case. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


But, as we've seen, the devs aren't interested in that as they are throwing a bunch of reskins at us. While this is likely because they have to design around the limitaiton of the PS2 (with its lack of significant storage space for patch content), part of me is inclined to think that even without that limitation in place the devs would STILL opt for the "lawl reskin" option. >.>;


I'm gonna say this much: The PS2's (or even the PSP's) limitations didn't stop Capcom from adding several completely new types of bosses and fodder enemies (as well as reskins for these new types) to their online action RPG.

SJW89
Jan 28, 2008, 08:15 AM
On 2008-01-27 22:38, Leahcim wrote:

Thunder Dragon -
- All attacks faster than De Ragan
- Higher rate of shock status effect.


That wouldn't make him harder, that'd just piss everyone off more!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SJW89 on 2008-01-28 05:16 ]</font>

Tulio07
Jan 28, 2008, 08:26 AM
100% hp for soloing
120% hp for 2 person parties
150% for 3
180% for 4
210% for 5
250% for 6

then basic stats (such as atk)
100% for 1
110% for 2
125% for 3
135% for 4
145% for 5
165% for 6

SJW89
Jan 28, 2008, 08:28 AM
That would defeat the purpose of bringing in friends to help you.

Reipard
Jan 28, 2008, 08:31 AM
That wouldn't make him harder, that'd just piss everyone off more!

Status effects proc'ing more does make it harder http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif. And 3 Deghanas would be significantly harder than one.

Sigh. lolPSUEzMode elitism at its best -_-. Lots of theoretical metagaming and little of it is actually substantial.


That would defeat the purpose of bringing in friends to help you.

No, it wouldn't. PSO does that and it works fine there.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Reipard on 2008-01-28 05:31 ]</font>

Chaosgyro
Jan 28, 2008, 09:06 AM
On 2008-01-28 05:26, Tulio07 wrote:
100% hp for soloing
120% hp for 2 person parties
150% for 3
180% for 4
210% for 5
250% for 6

then basic stats (such as atk)
100% for 1
110% for 2
125% for 3
135% for 4
145% for 5
165% for 6



Droprate should also increase with more people. There's a smaller chance of you getting the random drop so it should statistically even out.

If the whole level scaled this way (or even more drastically) then I imagine we'd see more max parties and less complaining about easymode.

superdood22
Jan 28, 2008, 09:12 AM
On 2008-01-28 00:26, Kerschweiser wrote:

On 2008-01-27 23:22, GuardianElite wrote:

On 2008-01-27 23:20, icewyrm wrote:
Well, they could just nerf melee classes, would that do it for you? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



ever tried melee vs. Magas



'nado Dance. nuff said.

Make Maghas a tad slower and lower his defense, make him use his strong attacks far more frequently and they hit accurately (like that multi burst cannon thing).

Hunters definitely need a huge tone down, actually all the classes need a tone down, everyones hp is so uneven with their damage output and enemies hp is just too high and indifferent compared to ours (bosses should have WAY more HP, like 200 thousand and Dark Falz should have 1 million and all the bosses should use their signature moves much more often).

The enemies should even out with us (like NPC classes with AI or something). The missions would be way more longer (which is actually a good thing, helps everyone get to know others...?) but there would need a to be a HUGE increase with end prizes and what not.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: superdood22 on 2008-01-28 06:17 ]</font>

SJW89
Jan 28, 2008, 09:16 AM
On 2008-01-28 05:31, Reipard wrote:

That wouldn't make him harder, that'd just piss everyone off more!

Status effects proc'ing more does make it harder http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif. And 3 Deghanas would be significantly harder than one.

Sigh. lolPSUEzMode elitism at its best -_-. Lots of theoretical metagaming and little of it is actually substantial.


That would defeat the purpose of bringing in friends to help you.

No, it wouldn't. PSO does that and it works fine there.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Reipard on 2008-01-28 05:31 ]</font>


There's no difference in time it takes to beat the enemy. It would be more useful to bring in friends to help you, and they actually kill it faster.

Billy960
Jan 28, 2008, 09:25 AM
Someone else said it before but yeah these ideas don't make the bosses any harder just more annoying. I mean if thats all you want to do then you could just have all of them spray out a megid cloud or some shit that just constantly kills everyone. When people think of harder difficulty the only thing they come up with it just more HP/ATP etc. Harder difficulty should mean more intelligent enemies too. Yes they should have higher HP and ATP and stuff too but its rather stupid if thats the only difference. The problem is there are only one or two games made that actually make enemies smarter as you increase the difficulty.

desturel
Jan 28, 2008, 09:44 AM
On 2008-01-28 06:12, superdood22 wrote:
Hunters definitely need a huge tone down, actually all the classes need a tone down, everyones hp is so uneven with their damage output


Fortetechers have too much HP? That's the first I've heard of that.

SATatami
Jan 28, 2008, 09:47 AM
On 2008-01-28 06:25, Billy960 wrote:
Someone else said it before but yeah these ideas don't make the bosses any harder just more annoying. I mean if thats all you want to do then you could just have all of them spray out a megid cloud or some shit that just constantly kills everyone. When people think of harder difficulty the only thing they come up with it just more HP/ATP etc. Harder difficulty should mean more intelligent enemies too. Yes they should have higher HP and ATP and stuff too but its rather stupid if thats the only difference. The problem is there are only one or two games made that actually make enemies smarter as you increase the difficulty.



Ugh! I played one of those games! Like uhhh... Metal Gear Solid 2? Those bastards on European Extreme, omg... >_> They're some smart sobs...

Gunslinger-08
Jan 28, 2008, 09:50 AM
Then I think that some increased aggression from enemies would help. I simply mean them using more of their powerful attacks that hurt really bad, but not the ones that chain you to death (Fakis's one attack comes to mind) Adanha is simply too passive. When someone get behind him, he needs to charge off, blasting you with his thrusters. Some bosses do need to have attack speed increased, others simply need to attack more.

SATatami
Jan 28, 2008, 09:53 AM
On 2008-01-28 06:50, Gunslinger-08 wrote:
Then I think that some increased aggression from enemies would help. I simply mean them using more of their powerful attacks that hurt really bad, but not the ones that chain you to death (Fakis's one attack comes to mind) Adanha is simply too passive. When someone get behind him, he needs to charge off, blasting you with his thrusters. Some bosses do need to have attack speed increased, others simply need to attack more.



I think the smartest boss would prolly be Maggas... Every time I try to hide in the cave, he charges over with his sword, through my teammates and lauchers a friggin' plasma grenade THROUGH the cave, sending me slamming up against the wall..

rogue_robot
Jan 28, 2008, 10:03 AM
*Sigh*

Nothing in this game will ever be difficult as long as the HUnter-type classes retain such a massive DPS advantage over the others - and can take out most bosses in one non-JA'ed PA, from the opposite end the room/area, anyway (only a slight exaggeration, no thanks to Chikki). But, that's not changing in our lifetimes...


Personally, I think that - enemies not considered - all attack-oriented classes (including the basic FOrce against HUnter and RAnger, although advanced classes should still retain advantages over the basic ones) should be capable of exactly equal DPS. Then, enemies should have decent enough HP to survive at least two good, solid hits (critical hits in this game, since accuracy/evasion are lol-insignificant, and with JA, you can auto-crit anyway) from the average-damage average-speed (because of the way this game is designed, PAs) attacks possessed by each class. To finish the equation, enemies have varying levels of resistance to each class's primary source of damage - cqc, ranged, techs. Not the cheesy half-damage to leaders stuff we've got right now, but actually having three different kinds of DFP (they've already got two), which aren't lol-insignificant, but rather put a massive dent in the one type they each protect against - and of course, at least one is always kept low enough for at least one class to hit for that average DPS - preferably more than one. Additionally, only one DFP-type stat should ever be set high enough on each enemy to provide near-immunity to that attack type - if they're going to have resistance to a second attack type, it's best to make that resistance only cut into some damage, not all, so that players aren't canned into one class just to kill a certain monster.


Yeah, my idea could probably use some work, but hey, it's just a rough-draft kind of thing. Anyway, that's my 2 Meseta.


EDIT: In the case of leaders, it would be fair to set all the theoretical DFP-stats high enough to soak up at least some damage from all types beyond that average DPS.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rogue_robot on 2008-01-28 07:05 ]</font>

amtalx
Jan 28, 2008, 10:34 AM
1. More interactive fights. Anyone play Shadow of the Colossus? I know fights exactly like that won't work, but the principal can be applied. Bosses should have several phases, and goals you have to accomplish before you can unleash PA hell.

2. Higher level bosses. You know how long Alteraz lasts with a bunch of fGs using Duranga? About as long as it takes for me to lean over for a drink of soda and miss all the EXP.

3. Make teamwork necessary. Each archetype (gunner, techer, fighter) should have a role, not just the general "DPS monster" role there is now.

4. Mix up the arenas. Why does everything have to be a circle or a rectangle? How about some arenas with stairs or teleporters and multiple platforms?

5. NO MORE RE-SKINS.

Gunslinger-08
Jan 28, 2008, 10:36 AM
On 2008-01-28 07:34, amtalx wrote:
1. More interactive fights. Anyone play Shadow of the Colossus? I know fights exactly like that won't work, but the principal can be applied. Bosses should have several phases, and goals you have to accomplish before you can unleash PA hell.

2. Higher level bosses. You know how long Alteraz lasts with a bunch of fGs using Duranga? About as long as it takes for me to lean over for a drink of soda and miss all the EXP.

3. Make teamwork necessary. Each archetype (gunner, techer, fighter) should have a role, not just the general "DPS monster" role there is now.

4. Mix up the arenas. Why does everything have to be a circle or a rectangle? How about some arenas with stairs or teleporters and multiple platforms?

5. NO MORE RE-SKINS.



Hear, hear! (you have my vote http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif)

darkante
Jan 28, 2008, 10:41 AM
On 2008-01-28 07:34, amtalx wrote:
1. More interactive fights. Anyone play Shadow of the Colossus? I know fights exactly like that won't work, but the principal can be applied. Bosses should have several phases, and goals you have to accomplish before you can unleash PA hell.

2. Higher level bosses. You know how long Alteraz lasts with a bunch of fGs using Duranga? About as long as it takes for me to lean over for a drink of soda and miss all the EXP.

3. Make teamwork necessary. Each archetype (gunner, techer, fighter) should have a role, not just the general "DPS monster" role there is now.

4. Mix up the arenas. Why does everything have to be a circle or a rectangle? How about some arenas with stairs or teleporters and multiple platforms?

5. NO MORE RE-SKINS.


Love your ideas.
If there were implented, the game would probably not feel as repetive as it is now.

But if ST should do something, at least they can stop with the damn reskins.
The expansion still feels like i play just a little updated PSU game.

And when the hell can we move our damn rooms?
That function should exist at start.
Not like until next expansion comes when no gives a shit then.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkante on 2008-01-28 07:44 ]</font>

SATatami
Jan 28, 2008, 10:45 AM
On 2008-01-28 07:41, darkante wrote:

On 2008-01-28 07:34, amtalx wrote:
1. More interactive fights. Anyone play Shadow of the Colossus? I know fights exactly like that won't work, but the principal can be applied. Bosses should have several phases, and goals you have to accomplish before you can unleash PA hell.

2. Higher level bosses. You know how long Alteraz lasts with a bunch of fGs using Duranga? About as long as it takes for me to lean over for a drink of soda and miss all the EXP.

3. Make teamwork necessary. Each archetype (gunner, techer, fighter) should have a role, not just the general "DPS monster" role there is now.

4. Mix up the arenas. Why does everything have to be a circle or a rectangle? How about some arenas with stairs or teleporters and multiple platforms?

5. NO MORE RE-SKINS.


Love your ideas.
If there were implented, the game would probably not feel as repetive as it is now.

But if ST should do something, at least they can stop with the damn reskins.



I can actually see a fight with a giant illimunus robot where you'd run up stairs in a circular room and warp up there, and occassionally, the boss grabs or hits you and knocks you all the way down to the bottom. annoying? yes. epic? yes. Fun? hell yes.

SLY_J
Jan 28, 2008, 10:47 AM
I really like Leahcim’s ideas because they’re from a realistic point of view. Sonic Team usually doesn't make significant changes to the core gameplay mechanics of PSU unless it's absolutely necessary, so I can't imagine them making any serious changes to the boss battles. Every single one of Leahcim’s suggestions could be implemented with a minimal amount of effort, and in my opinion, these are probably the only changes that Sonic Team would be willing to make.

Micro
Jan 28, 2008, 11:02 AM
On 2008-01-28 07:34, amtalx wrote:
1. More interactive fights. Anyone play Shadow of the Colossus? I know fights exactly like that won't work, but the principal can be applied. Bosses should have several phases, and goals you have to accomplish before you can unleash PA hell.

2. Higher level bosses. You know how long Alteraz lasts with a bunch of fGs using Duranga? About as long as it takes for me to lean over for a drink of soda and miss all the EXP.

3. Make teamwork necessary. Each archetype (gunner, techer, fighter) should have a role, not just the general "DPS monster" role there is now.

4. Mix up the arenas. Why does everything have to be a circle or a rectangle? How about some arenas with stairs or teleporters and multiple platforms?

5. NO MORE RE-SKINS.



I agree with these. Mainly number 4.

pikachief
Jan 28, 2008, 11:22 AM
On 2008-01-27 23:22, GuardianElite wrote:

On 2008-01-27 23:20, icewyrm wrote:
Well, they could just nerf melee classes, would that do it for you? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



ever tried melee vs. Magas




yup doing over 1,100's with my dus majarra and im Protranser and its not even lvled up yet.

I kill him much faster that way than with guns and techs http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif lol

amtalx
Jan 28, 2008, 11:24 AM
Srlsy. Majarrape his base. The rest is just a formality.

pikachief
Jan 28, 2008, 11:27 AM
On 2008-01-28 07:45, SATatami wrote:

On 2008-01-28 07:41, darkante wrote:

On 2008-01-28 07:34, amtalx wrote:
1. More interactive fights. Anyone play Shadow of the Colossus? I know fights exactly like that won't work, but the principal can be applied. Bosses should have several phases, and goals you have to accomplish before you can unleash PA hell.

2. Higher level bosses. You know how long Alteraz lasts with a bunch of fGs using Duranga? About as long as it takes for me to lean over for a drink of soda and miss all the EXP.

3. Make teamwork necessary. Each archetype (gunner, techer, fighter) should have a role, not just the general "DPS monster" role there is now.

4. Mix up the arenas. Why does everything have to be a circle or a rectangle? How about some arenas with stairs or teleporters and multiple platforms?

5. NO MORE RE-SKINS.


Love your ideas.
If there were implented, the game would probably not feel as repetive as it is now.

But if ST should do something, at least they can stop with the damn reskins.



I can actually see a fight with a giant illimunus robot where you'd run up stairs in a circular room and warp up there, and occassionally, the boss grabs or hits you and knocks you all the way down to the bottom. annoying? yes. epic? yes. Fun? hell yes.



How about a melee resistant boss that flies everyonce in a while, but doesnt move around fast. Kinda like de ragan but not so breifly and more like hovers in the air instead of dashing constantly.

Or a boss with 3 forms? One thats melee resistant, but it does super high damage and high defense(a meleee form), then a ranged form(almost always flying), (and a tech form), the last form as a boss who can multiply itself, teleport, can heal for a lot AND BUFF itself, and causes SE's on u a lot http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.

SLY_J
Jan 28, 2008, 11:49 AM
On 2008-01-28 08:27, pikachief wrote:

How about a melee resistant boss that flies everyonce in a while, but doesnt move around fast. Kinda like de ragan but not so breifly and more like hovers in the air instead of dashing constantly.



I wouldn’t mind bosses dashing quickly from point A to point B, if it didn’t take me so long to catch up. I wish that they would make at least one of the following changes:
(A) Make the bosses move speed slower.
(B) Make the player’s move speed faster.
(C) Decrease the size of the boss arenas.
(D) Increase the range of weapons like pistols, rifles, bows, etc.

chibiLegolas
Jan 28, 2008, 01:06 PM
I'm sure someone's already mentioned it by now, but to make bosses more interesting, you can bring out aspects of the old PSO bosses and/or mix it up even more.

After X amount of HP left on a boss, they'd multiply (or split up) and force you to attack mutiple different targets. You can make only 1 the "real" boss who can receive damage, and the rest all fake drones.

Make a boss part of the room/environment. Give us a maze or simple switch/pillar puzzle within the boss room to make us (or some of the party members) able to reach the boss to deal 100% damage on it, while the rest works on helping them get up to the boss.
Kinda comparable to Falz in PSU, but with a larger room with more varied puzzles (as apposed to just shooting it's arms off).

Give us a stradegy to make us lure the boss to ideal weak areas on the map to trap them, and THEN we can deal 100% damage on them. (rather than US wait for them to land/get within range).

Give us drones, little mob targets to play with during boss battles to distract us. It maybe pure damage, conceilment (giving the boss cover for those who use single target PA's), or actually be part of a puzzle to help kill the boss quicker. Like we can ONLY kill a random enemy that'll weaken the boss's sheild/armor.

Give us puzzles that speed up boss battle puzzles when using SPECIFIC "knock up", "knock back", "knock down" on our PA's.
Kinda gives us more insentive to carry around more varied PA's during boss battles. And I believe every class has access to at least 2 kinds of the mentioned above effects. Even techers.... (hell, ST gave FT's access to a good handful of melee weapons. Wouldn't it be fun to frantically run around a room, dealing various knock up/down/back PA's on buttons/dummies/etc. to get through the boss's shield?)
The same can go with elemental attacks as puzzles as well.

Umm... boss stealing a player's soul and we're FORCED to hold our attacks?

amtalx
Jan 28, 2008, 01:11 PM
Another thing I was thinking of are Co-op bosses. Your team would actually get split up and fight different parts of the boss. For example, team 1's side would be tech/bullet/melee resistant, but if team 2 knocked out the correct shield generators, team 1's side would open up. Then team 1 could do somethign to stop the boss from dropping SE bombs on team 2. Pretty lame example, but you get the point.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: amtalx on 2008-01-28 10:13 ]</font>

chibiLegolas
Jan 28, 2008, 01:24 PM
On 2008-01-28 07:34, amtalx wrote:
4. Mix up the arenas. Why does everything have to be a circle or a rectangle? How about some arenas with stairs or teleporters and multiple platforms?


Oh! I like this as well! But they'd gotta give us enough teleporters to help us revive one another if someone falls. Unless one of the stradegies here is that NO ONE can be a weak link and must carry enough scapes and mates for each member to hold their own.
Sounds fun to me!

For atmosphere, I wanna see the room go dark once in awhile. Perhaps as a punishment from a failed puzzle aspect? Like hitting the WRONG part of the boss?

Shiryuu
Jan 28, 2008, 01:35 PM
Obviously only 3 De Ragans is the only way to go. 2 for solo, 3 for three people and 4 for five people or more. Same with other bosses too. A lot more difficult to kill a De Ragan or whatever when two of them are breathing fire at you from different directions or when you're about to jabroga one, but the other stomps and forces you to block/flinch.

Chaosgyro
Jan 28, 2008, 02:16 PM
Most all bosses in any online game are simply a variation of the "tank and spank" formula. The fun happens when it's no longer the DPS that determines victory, but the support. Usually that means that magic-based classes (wizards/priests) have to pull some fancy shit out of their ass, but an action game like PSU can be a little more creative.

I mostly see this as taking some form of split tactic. Either half the group needs to focus on keeping smaller mobs off the boss team, or some person/people handling puzzles while others do the dirty deeds. I'd enjoy a boss that could not be physically reached. Hunters and the like would have to handle small creatures and run around the level pushing buttons and flipping switches for various effects while gunners stood by and shot the holy hell out of some flying monstrosity.

Another fun fight style that has no representation is defense. Where's the sense that we fight our way to some important piece of hardware/an imperiled scientist or fellow guardian, and proceed to man turrets and laser walls while a boss tries to turn us all to goo. A second phase of such a fight could be a more traditional 'wipe the floor with his pansy ass' coup de grace.

In this style, something like De Ragan would have been done as a sort of chase. Following him through the valley avoiding fireballs and tail swipes while attacking the environment to lodge pillars atop him/attach chains to his legs or something until you can smash him on the ground.

GuardianElite
Jan 28, 2008, 02:25 PM
On 2008-01-28 08:22, pikachief wrote:

On 2008-01-27 23:22, GuardianElite wrote:

On 2008-01-27 23:20, icewyrm wrote:
Well, they could just nerf melee classes, would that do it for you? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



ever tried melee vs. Magas




yup doing over 1,100's with my dus majarra and im Protranser and its not even lvled up yet.

I kill him much faster that way than with guns and techs http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif lol


of course but out of every class i play fighters and techers it is more difficult

SATatami
Jan 28, 2008, 02:27 PM
On 2008-01-28 11:16, Chaosgyro wrote:
Most all bosses in any online game are simply a variation of the "tank and spank" formula. The fun happens when it's no longer the DPS that determines victory, but the support. Usually that means that magic-based classes (wizards/priests) have to pull some fancy shit out of their ass, but an action game like PSU can be a little more creative.

I mostly see this as taking some form of split tactic. Either half the group needs to focus on keeping smaller mobs off the boss team, or some person/people handling puzzles while others do the dirty deeds. I'd enjoy a boss that could not be physically reached. Hunters and the like would have to handle small creatures and run around the level pushing buttons and flipping switches for various effects while gunners stood by and shot the holy hell out of some flying monstrosity.

Another fun fight style that has no representation is defense. Where's the sense that we fight our way to some important piece of hardware/an imperiled scientist or fellow guardian, and proceed to man turrets and laser walls while a boss tries to turn us all to goo. A second phase of such a fight could be a more traditional 'wipe the floor with his pansy ass' coup de grace.

In this style, something like De Ragan would have been done as a sort of chase. Following him through the valley avoiding fireballs and tail swipes while attacking the environment to lodge pillars atop him/attach chains to his legs or something until you can smash him on the ground.



chase dimma on speeders like Laia.

SLY_J
Jan 28, 2008, 02:50 PM
Agreed, vehicles + bosses would be awesome. Alas, PSU has been out for over a year, and the only time vehicles have appeared in an online mission was the floader section of the Neudaiz 1up cup. Since PSU was released, I’ve clocked 1500+ hours on the game, yet I’ve probably only spend 30 minutes total riding vehicles. That fact alone is enough to make me cry.

Noblewine
Jan 28, 2008, 05:17 PM
Give them special abilities so they excel in one thing and increase their speed a bit.

darkante
Jan 28, 2008, 05:26 PM
On 2008-01-28 11:50, SLY_J wrote:
Agreed, vehicles + bosses would be awesome. Alas, PSU has been out for over a year, and the only time vehicles have appeared in an online mission was the floader section of the Neudaiz 1up cup. Since PSU was released, I’ve clocked 1500+ hours on the game, yet I’ve probably only spend 30 minutes total riding vehicles. That fact alone is enough to make me cry.

Yeah, vehicles and boss idea is good.

In that boss fight, you need at least one gunner to shoot the boss wings for a certain amount dmg while avoiding attacks and driving close enough when you chase it..melee attacks don´t reach it when it flies..

Then it gets stunned and falls down on the ground and is stunned for a short period of time..that means the hunter´s should hop off the veicle and run as fast as hell to get as many hits as possible on it before it recovers.

Rince and repeat..until it change phaze.

Now it chases you instead and you have to trick it to make it slam itself in a pillar or wall or something (Maybe a sound lure weapon?)..then it falls and gets stunned again..that´s the hunter cue again to attack.

Rince and repeat to boss is defeated.

That is my idea for a fun battle http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkante on 2008-01-28 14:27 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkante on 2008-01-28 14:28 ]</font>

Billy960
Jan 28, 2008, 06:07 PM
A boss or two that requires hitting switches and stuff would be cool but it isn't a good idea to make lots of them. I mean it would basically turn all those missions into party missions and lets face it you don't always want to play in a party. Crazy shaped rooms would be a much better idea.

Most of these ideas seem to make the bosses more like an action/adventure game boss like something from Zelda but...
the idea behind the bosses in action/adventure games is that its supposed to be fun to try and figure it out the first time. Ask yourself this, would you really want to do even 10 runs of a tedious boss fight that requires you to hit 10 different buttons in a certain sequence? It would just become horribly tedious after a while. People might play it for a day or two but it would just become another Bruce's Dungeon or HSM.

Most of these things are really good ideas but you have to remember that people will want to do dozens of runs at one mission. There has to be a reason to keep coming back and re fighting a boss even if its just for good drops and no matter how good the drops are people won't come back if the mission is just plain tedious. I would rather have different arena's and such that make it interesting and different while not making the fight tedious.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Billy960 on 2008-01-28 15:08 ]</font>

Vyslain
Jan 28, 2008, 06:31 PM
All these various boss ideas(Especially the vehicle ones) made me realize something.
Final battle with Karl Howzer needs to involve him using some freakishly huge robot thing, one that dwarfs Magas tenfold, how do you fight something that huge? Simple my friend.
A.M.F. Main Battle Tanks like the one in PSU story mode. Destroy the shell by splitting the party into groups manning tanks(Pilot and gunner, anyone?), thus revealing a smaller, faster robot, in which case you have to get out of the tanks to do any real damage.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ouQvVyapIxI
Kinda like this boss, except in RPG format and the first form has everyone piloting tanks against it.
That and the first form needs to not die in 15 seconds.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Vyslain on 2008-01-28 15:32 ]</font>

Shiryuu
Jan 28, 2008, 09:20 PM
On 2008-01-28 15:31, Vyslain wrote:
All these various boss ideas(Especially the vehicle ones) made me realize something.
Final battle with Karl Howzer needs to involve him using some freakishly huge robot thing, one that dwarfs Magas tenfold, how do you fight something that huge? Simple my friend.
A.M.F. Main Battle Tanks like the one in PSU story mode. Destroy the shell by splitting the party into groups manning tanks(Pilot and gunner, anyone?), thus revealing a smaller, faster robot, in which case you have to get out of the tanks to do any real damage.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ouQvVyapIxI
Kinda like this boss, except in RPG format and the first form has everyone piloting tanks against it.
That and the first form needs to not die in 15 seconds.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Vyslain on 2008-01-28 15:32 ]</font>

Pfft... you know they're going to make Howzer turn into a Dulk Fakis (instead of a monocle, he'll have long hair).

Chaobo99
Jan 28, 2008, 09:58 PM
How about all bosses should have more HP,more DFP, and more ATP in general.PERIOD
S2 bosses should be faster or more aggresive.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chaobo99 on 2008-01-28 18:58 ]</font>

Jainsea
Jan 31, 2008, 04:33 AM
Adahna Degahna----
All his weapons as a huge mech and he doesnt use them right lol. Ok here is my thoughts.
He should have differnt photon whips that dish
out harsher SE.
Chaos Whip: A whip of unbalnced power that has the chance to inflict target with Night Terror SE.
Night Terror= Lv3 sleep+Lv4 virus.
Anglika Whip: A whip of blinding light that has the
chance to inflict target with Mirage Confusion SE.
Mirage Confusion= Lv2 confusion and it locks you out
of your item screen MENU, but when you pull up your
item pallet it flashes as if broken. Must time right to use your healing items while infected.
The missles he shoots should have splash damage and leave that spot burning for 1 min.
His Main laser should be more devastating(Like take off 40% of your HP)since its so easy to avoid, and sends target flying like a ragdoll.
His defensive barrier should take up a certain amount
of damage then shatter. Maybe like 3000dm? but its
melle ressitance and techs do only 75% of thier dmg on it. Maybe the upper part in the back is a weak spot so Ranger types can help out there.
The gattling gun attack can cause zalure and do a bit
more damage I suppose.
When he teleports he leaves a big fire on the floor, think like Burn trap EX.
As he Resta's any damage done to him as he does it actaully heals him,and he can now move as he does so but at 1/2 speed. So best to stop and plan attack after that. And if your too long behind him spamming
attacks, rods stick out of his back and in 1-3 seconds a shockwave hits 2-3 feet behind him and can inflict shock lv4....
Thats just imo though http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif I took awhile to
write the post so unsure if similar stuff has been said. I do another boss in bit lolz...

Dragwind
Jan 31, 2008, 06:34 AM
On 2008-01-27 22:54, GuardianElite wrote:
Give them some Viagra?



qft.

Jainsea
Jan 31, 2008, 10:05 AM
Alterazgohg-------
This boss has good possiblites.
1st all, he needs to change from Dark to Light way more often,and yea most of his breath attacks miss so those defintely gotta hit at a better rate.
He can have an attack breath thats just a orange haze
that spreads over an area. Does little damage but the
out come is bad http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif keep reading...
The lil' spirts I forget how many there are tbh -.- but each one could have a very NOTICABLE trait/attack. Each one will be a differnt shade of color to tell them apart.
Lets say there is 6 for this example.
1.The Thorn:[RED] this one will do all the regular attack types but more frequntly.
2.The Soul:[WHITE] anyone that got hit by the orange haze will now share any damage Alterazgohg recieves untill this spirt is "killed"
3.The Fallen:[BLUE] for every time some one is killed,this spirt heals Alterazgohg for certain amount.
4.The Lover:[PINK] when this soul is active Alterazgohg takes no damage untill the spirt is "killed"
5.The Judge:[BLACK] has lvl 30+ debuffs and cast diaz and rentis on the other spirts.
6.The Blade:[GREY] attacks with light or dark sword according to what the boss is atm. Has strong Attack and is able to move around the arena more freely then other spirts. Of course like before,the spirts
come back after awhile.
When Alterazgohg's wings glow a bit he gains melle
ressistance for X amount of time.(not for too long)
Those ghost that fly about maybe they can, besides hitting you with virus and confusion SE, kinda try to grab you and drag you around the arena. Almost
like crazy lag but this time its not lag>.>
When I 1st heard/saw about this boss I wanted it to be sorta epic but T_T I think now with this he be more of a challenge and teamwork to defeat his "helpers" will be more needed.
ok im off back to bed. Im going @o@;;

SATatami
Jan 31, 2008, 10:15 AM
Deragan? Give him a machine gun. and his head. And tail. and 5 of em on his wings. Let's see you attack NOW, EVP bastards! XD

Akaimizu
Jan 31, 2008, 10:17 AM
One of the main bosses that's already on the right track is the Desert Goliath boss. The Red Robot. Now all he really needs is a damage boost at a higher level. There is one inescapable combination he still has, (Hardly any boss has one of those) where he chases you down and then does his 360 spinning blade. You can't outrun that since he moves several times your speed, and the spin has great range considering his mobility.

At the moment, some classes can survive that, while other's can't. But not for long, as our levels increase, everybody would take one of those and live. He doesn't require much but a damage boost, for higher levels. At the moment, the bosses are one of the cases where everybody has a say in defeating them. They all have spots where hunters and forces can really contribute well, and they have times where the gunners pick up the slack (them moving around, having weak points for good damage, etc.)

Sekani
Jan 31, 2008, 11:54 AM
There were two really good things said earlier in this thread. First, there is a thin line between making a boss harder or just more annoying. Second, the simplest boss strategy in video game history is the one where you have to either wait for or better yet create openings to attack for massive damage as opposed to just swinging at anything that moves. With those concepts in mind, here's my hopefully doable idea for a rebalance of Onmagoug/Dimmagolus:

The boss no longer lands on his own, he only touches the ground after his wings are clipped. However, the amount of damage needed to shred his wings would be reduced.

The boss' body would be bullet resistant and the amount of overall HP would be dramatically increased to compensate for the current power of melee PAs.

The boss always does some sort of damaging attack after those black spore trap things come out of the ground. Right now the traps are an annoyance, but they should be upgraded to something that almost must be avoided. Naturally, you'd have a second or so to move out of the way once you saw the trap coming (similar to Dimma right now).

Ultimately these changes could make those bosses more annoying to some because they'd take longer for soloists or rare-hunters to kill, but it wouldn't be an encounter that you have the luxury of falling asleep on any longer.

panzer_unit
Jan 31, 2008, 12:13 PM
Bosses would be challenging enough if people actually needed to avoid their attacks :

1) bosses need to attack WAY more rapidly. De Ragan walks for like 10 seconds between moves? That's ridiculous. Dimmo and Magas are at least really mobile and hard to hit whenever they're NOT attacking, but that's slow and boring. I think having bosses making like a quick one-second sprint and then stop to attack, or slowly cruise around while attacking, would be much more fun.

2) all bosses need some kind of attack where players need to RUN THE HELL AWAY regardless of their level.
Magas' sword hits and Onma's lightning are about right.
Adenha's missiles are really damaging, they need to be harder to avoid or something tho.
Dimmo's tornadoes should do so much damage that people need to stop what they're doing and dodge around.
De Ragnus' stomp should be freaking death no matter your HP.
Ragnus and Zoal ... I guess their beam attacks. Really these guys don't have anything that will hit anybody who's, like, awake when they play. The idea of fighting both of 'em at once is about the only way to make things hard.

3) bosses should have some smarts. Attack whatever job is the most useful during the fight in general (like fakis and magas would hate on healers, dragons and dimmo would hate on gunners, adenha is a big suck and should hate on himself) or go right after the character that's done the most damage specifically, so they've got to spend time running. Change tactics if they're getting pounded doing whatever it is they're doing.

ZodiacNKnight
Jan 31, 2008, 12:25 PM
Here's a challenge. Onmagoug and Dimmagolus in the same boss fight.
I also want to see Onmagoug/Dimmagolus grab a party member and then throw it at another party member, hurting them both.

Better yet, Adahna Degahna and Magas Maggahna as a dual boss fight.
Side by side teleporting, charging, and firing their missiles together.

The Vol Brothers do a multi attack together that practically blows up a great portion of the battle.
I would like to see Adahna Degahna/Magas Maggahna or Onmagoug/Dimmagolus do like a double team attack.



A new boss fight that they should do is have a multi-floor battle.
Maybe like Fakis S3 form or some monster that's so big that you have a 1st floor, 2nd floor, and 3rd floor in the entire Boss battle.
The 1st floor would be his lower chest, 2nd floor would be his upper chest, and the 3rd floor would be his face/head.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ZodiacNKnight on 2008-01-31 09:26 ]</font>

Akaimizu
Jan 31, 2008, 12:28 PM
Wow. That multi-floor idea is interesting. The first time I've seen something like that was Voodoo Vince. Who had one of the most inventive and largest bosses in videogame history. He wasn't just a boss, he actually spanned multiple technical game levels. He was also very very huge. At one point, you could see all of him at once (but not all of his insides). The final battle was in a spacious arena inside his brain center. Still, it was very cool, and unique. I'd love to see another game copy that idea.

Someone might mention Shadow of the Collossus, and maybe one or two were similarly sized; but they were all navigation fests until you reach the weak point. The Voodoo Vince boss had a series of linked entire levels of you battling the same guy, and often your entire gamestyle, required to get past a section, changed.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-01-31 09:36 ]</font>

Rapture
Jan 31, 2008, 12:51 PM
^Sounds pretty good but a little to complicated for this game.Just be glad that there isn't a boss as awful as Vol Opt.Anyone who played PSO will know what i mean ^__^

Akaimizu
Jan 31, 2008, 01:28 PM
Aww. Why not? We could use a bunch more Photon Drops you know. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Rapture
Jan 31, 2008, 02:07 PM
^hahaha,yea.He was soooooooo easy to defeat lol and i never did get the red cannon (cant remember the name) from him http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

panzer_unit
Jan 31, 2008, 02:21 PM
You know, as boring as the bosses are... PSU mini-boss fights are pretty exciting. They're powerful, more importantly they're QUICK, and pack some nice movesets with lots of charge-ins, debuffs, stuns, physical knockdown/knockback.

Akaimizu
Jan 31, 2008, 02:44 PM
On 2008-01-31 11:07, Rapture wrote:
^hahaha,yea.He was soooooooo easy to defeat lol and i never did get the red cannon (cant remember the name) from him http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif



Sorry for being a little off-track. But did Volt Ops always drop that Red Cannon, or was that not available until Episode 1 & 2?

amtalx
Jan 31, 2008, 02:50 PM
On 2008-01-31 09:51, Rapture wrote:
^Sounds pretty good but a little to complicated for this game.Just be glad that there isn't a boss as awful as Vol Opt.Anyone who played PSO will know what i mean ^__^



The mines were my favorite http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif I found the first form of Falz far worse. Once your DFP was high enough that the Darvants stopped knocking you over, that part got REALLY dangerous.

desturel
Jan 31, 2008, 02:54 PM
On 2008-01-31 11:21, panzer_unit wrote:
PSU mini-boss fights are pretty exciting.


It really depends. Gol Dova has moments where he's dangerous, but most of the time, you set him on fire with a trap/foie and dodge.

Kagajibari is easy pie. Diga, Grav Shot, Earth striking weapon, zonde, plasma shot, or lightning weapon makes him pretty useless on attacking you. He burns and freezes easy as well.

Dilla Griena are weaker than Seed Vitace and easy to dispose of.

Carriguine is the only one of the "horse rider" enemies that I find dangerous. Kamatoze, Gainozeros, and SEED-Argine are sleep inducing.

Seed Magashi isn't very dangerous. Just annoying having to chase him down.

Svaltus were dangerous until stun resist came out, now they are on the same level as SEED-Ardite except they don't slowly kill themselves with Megistar.

chibiLegolas
Jan 31, 2008, 03:13 PM
On 2008-01-31 09:25, ZodiacNKnight wrote:
Here's a challenge. Onmagoug and Dimmagolus in the same boss fight.
I also want to see Onmagoug/Dimmagolus grab a party member and then throw it at another party member, hurting them both.


Oh. I like this idea as well. Plus give us a chance to hit their hands to drop our defensless party member (if our gunner is quick enough).

Rapture
Jan 31, 2008, 03:41 PM
On 2008-01-31 11:44, Akaimizu wrote:

On 2008-01-31 11:07, Rapture wrote:
^hahaha,yea.He was soooooooo easy to defeat lol and i never did get the red cannon (cant remember the name) from him http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif



Sorry for being a little off-track. But did Volt Ops always drop that Red Cannon, or was that not available until Episode 1 & 2?



Episode 1/2 i believe. I dont know what he dropped on the old DC PSO,if anything. The drop rates in that game were absolutley insane lol i remember finding god units all over the place with -- on too lol. Ahhh the days ^__^

Gunslinger-08
Jan 31, 2008, 07:45 PM
On 2008-01-31 12:13, chibiLegolas wrote:

On 2008-01-31 09:25, ZodiacNKnight wrote:
Here's a challenge. Onmagoug and Dimmagolus in the same boss fight.
I also want to see Onmagoug/Dimmagolus grab a party member and then throw it at another party member, hurting them both.


Oh. I like this idea as well. Plus give us a chance to hit their hands to drop our defensless party member (if our gunner is quick enough).



Yes! For some bosses, instead of just popping out the grenade launcher and going to town, I'd enjoy saving my teammates from the perils of getting close to bosses like that!

Akaimizu
Jan 31, 2008, 09:22 PM
Oohh the gunner saving the grabbed opponent. I like it. It reeks of another SEGA game, and that's cool. It's so..... Jurassic Park. No, seriously, that's neat. I miss that game.

VetroDrago
Jan 31, 2008, 10:47 PM
We really do need new bosses. I want bosses that don't stand there for awhile and then do the usual attack. The only fun boss to me is Fakis's final form. I like bosses that beat the hell out of me too. We need a boss that we fight on a flying platform high up in the clouds or something.

Shishi-O
Feb 2, 2008, 12:07 AM
On 2008-01-27 22:51, JaiBlue wrote:
All the dragons in this game are slow, predictable, and borderline retarded. But hey, any game has it's AI limits, it's all a matter of figuring out how your gonna humiliate them next.

if they were made smarter/ faster everyone would be intimidated by them and scream for a gimp.

i was in a party where they tail whipped the hell out of the party members, and everyone bitched to high heaven.

the game is easy enough where people can pretend they are hot shit.

don't take that away from them http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

Weeaboolits
Feb 2, 2008, 02:22 AM
I want bosses with multiple forms, give me this and I may be satisfied.

Shishi-O
Feb 2, 2008, 06:54 AM
have u guys noticed the enemies are already kinda smarter?

Thor131
Feb 2, 2008, 09:32 AM
We already have enough trouble with current events as it is without you people thinking of more things to put on this game. I mean honestly you can wait till things blowover to think of new ways to make more work for yourself later.

JarinKail
Feb 2, 2008, 09:35 AM
My suggestion is to make all bosses Vol Opt and have Dulk Fakis replaced with a Cray version of Vol Opt.

That's right, a liquid cooled supercomputer boss.

SATatami
Feb 2, 2008, 09:40 AM
On 2008-02-01 23:22, Ronin_Cooper wrote:
I want bosses with multiple forms, give me this and I may be satisfied.



Yeah, those are also nice.

P.S: DAMN YOUR SIG AND MY URGE TO CLICK THE MUSIC NOTE EVERY @#$!ING TIME I SEE IT Etgfiwehogiwhejoliwehjogiw

Finalzone
Feb 3, 2008, 01:15 AM
On 2008-01-28 07:34, amtalx wrote:

4. Mix up the arenas. Why does everything have to be a circle or a rectangle? How about some arenas with stairs or teleporters and multiple platforms?

5. NO MORE RE-SKINS.



Re-skins is here to stay like it or not. Majority of videogames use that method to save space especially the online version. Consider also people who still have narrowband connections which means some complicated areas requires more data transfert causing delay.

Tulio07
Feb 3, 2008, 01:26 AM
On 2008-02-01 23:22, Ronin_Cooper wrote:
I want bosses with multiple forms, give me this and I may be satisfied.



I want rare bosses like Kondy in psobb

Chaobo99
Feb 3, 2008, 02:00 AM
they need like E-101 Beta from sonic adventure as a boss.What's better than a boss circling around the field while lauching missles at you and charging a gigantic atomic bomb things..and when he dies you have 5 seconds to go to safety when he self-destructs o.o

Reipard
Feb 3, 2008, 07:54 AM
Re-skins is here to stay like it or not. Majority of videogames use that method to save space especially the online version. Consider also people who still have narrowband connections which means some complicated areas requires more data transfert causing delay.

It's one thing to reskin enemies, which is relatively common among the industry- but over 50% of PSU's boss fights are reskins. There is something wrong with that, online or not.

icewyrm
Feb 3, 2008, 08:59 AM
On 2008-02-03 04:54, Reipard wrote:
It's one thing to reskin enemies, which is relatively common among the industry- but over 50% of PSU's boss fights are reskins. There is something wrong with that, online or not.


Personally, my main qualm with boss reskins in PSU is that most of them feel really basic; as if the dev team was given perhaps a single day at most to make any of them. Maybe that's exaggerating, since texturing/extra modelling etc can take some time. But the changes to scripting, movement, basic AI etc are usually very minimal. Disappointing.

Leahcim
Feb 3, 2008, 02:35 PM
No, exactly 50% of the bosses are reskins >_>

CeruleanWitch
Feb 3, 2008, 03:44 PM
I'd love it if boss battles were done "danmaku" style.

rogue_robot
Feb 3, 2008, 03:48 PM
It would be nice if ST's reskins carried a few extra tactics on top of their "base" variety's skill set.

Like the Deganna and Maganna, for example. They're reskins of each other, but the flow of the fights are actually somewhat different. Not so for the other reskins out there - it's just clobbering an uglier version of the same boss, just with better stats and a different element.