Close the damn borders already

[BigBadBoozie]

I mean seriously, what is with all these Mexicans just coming here and thinking they own the place? News flash, no one gives a damn about the Spanish language, and no one certainly wants to see it everywhere. I turned on the radio today, took me 10 minutes to find a damn station that had English music. Mariachi music sounds like a sick dog choking on a bone. You are ruining the education system since you cant speak a damn word of English, making everyone else look bad. Stay in your own country, you dont see the French trying to move to England.

[Anduril]

Wow, what an ignorant post.

[MrNomad]

Lol pretty tough stuff you said there. To be honest, I dont mind all the new spanish everywhere stuff, but it does get alittle out of hand. Just because theres a bunch of mexicans going to USA doesn't mean we hafta make everything in spanish too. I mean really, isn't China soon to be the most wealthy country later on anyway? Why not help us learn alittle Canto to help us get into business with them http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif btw I dont HATE mexicans, just the illegal ones that hop our fences undocumented, make 12 babies living on welfare, form gangs all over and partake in marches they have no idea are about, further flaming the typical hatred towards the honest good ones. But you know, just my opinion http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[EphekZ]

On 2008-01-29 18:54, Anduril wrote:
Wow, what an ignorant post.



Agreed, but he has a point with this part:


You are ruining the education system since you cant speak a damn word of English, making everyone else look bad.

The school I attend is a Magnet school, which is like a section for the straight A students, there are probably about...500 Magnet students. Also, the school is primarily Hispanic, except for the kids in the magnet; there are probably 10, if any. Regardless of this, we are still classified as a "failing school" because of our CST scores. I'm not calling them dumb, but they don't care. Thus it ruins the school's and State's reputation. Any school in L.A. has a bad Rep, my school in a hispanic neighborhood, has a bad rep. It's pretty ridiculous, that I don't even have to try and I pass. Yet, these kids will deliberately fail.

[Anduril]

On 2008-01-29 19:03, EphekZ wrote:

On 2008-01-29 18:54, Anduril wrote:
Wow, what an ignorant post.



Agreed, but he has a point with this part:


You are ruining the education system since you cant speak a damn word of English, making everyone else look bad.

The school I attend is a Magnet school, which is like a section for the straight A students, there are probably about...500 Magnet students. Also, the school is primarily Hispanic, except for the kids in the magnet; there are probably 10, if any. Regardless of this, we are still classified as a "failing school" because of our CST scores. I'm not calling them dumb, but they don't care. Thus it ruins the school's and State's reputation. Any school in L.A. has a bad Rep, my school in a hispanic neighborhood, has a bad rep. It's pretty ridiculous, that I don't even have to try and I pass. Yet, these kids will deliberately fail.


A lot of test scores actually just have to do with the overcrowding that is occurring in California and the overemphasis on standardized testing over an actual education, thanks to No Child Left Behind. Rather than emphasizing education that will make students well rounded members of society the emphasis has shifted to making the US look good in the eyes of the World through showing that our students are good at Math and basic Critical thinking. Being a Mexican I believe that there should be better regulation on this side of the border, but at the same time I think the Mexican Government has to step up, after all people won't want to leave Mexico if there is sufficient opportunity for them there.

[Ketchup345]

I see some good discussion can come from this topic, but please, choose wording carefully. Remember, flaming (especially an entire race/nationality/group) is against forum rules.

[EphekZ]

On 2008-01-29 19:11, Anduril wrote:

On 2008-01-29 19:03, EphekZ wrote:

On 2008-01-29 18:54, Anduril wrote:
Wow, what an ignorant post.



Agreed, but he has a point with this part:


You are ruining the education system since you cant speak a damn word of English, making everyone else look bad.

The school I attend is a Magnet school, which is like a section for the straight A students, there are probably about...500 Magnet students. Also, the school is primarily Hispanic, except for the kids in the magnet; there are probably 10, if any. Regardless of this, we are still classified as a "failing school" because of our CST scores. I'm not calling them dumb, but they don't care. Thus it ruins the school's and State's reputation. Any school in L.A. has a bad Rep, my school in a hispanic neighborhood, has a bad rep. It's pretty ridiculous, that I don't even have to try and I pass. Yet, these kids will deliberately fail.


A lot of test scores actually just have to do with the overcrowding that is occurring in California and the overemphasis on standardized testing over an actual education, thanks to No Child Left Behind. Rather than emphasizing education that will make students well rounded members of society the emphasis has shifted to making the US look good in the eyes of the World through showing that our students are good at Math and basic Critical thinking. Being a Mexican I believe that there should be better regulation on this side of the border, but at the same time I think the Mexican Government has to step up, after all people won't want to leave Mexico if there is sufficient opportunity for them there.



Agreed, I don't have a problem with Hispanics by themselves. I mean, considering the conditions over in the Southwestern hemisphere, it's perfectly logical. However, as you have stated, there is overcrowding and other unlikeable consequences. I think the real problem with the OP, is his tact. It wouldn't matter if there was another "white" country under us. If they lived in the same conditions, I can guarantee they'd be flocking over here as well.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: EphekZ on 2008-01-29 19:34 ]</font>

[Anduril]

On 2008-01-29 19:34, EphekZ wrote:

Agreed, I don't have a problem with Hispanics by themselves. I mean, considering the conditions over in the Southwestern hemisphere, it's perfectly logical. However, as you have stated, there is overcrowding and other unlikeable consequences. I think the real problem with the OP, is his tact. It wouldn't matter if there was another "white" country under us. If they lived in the same conditions, I can guarantee they'd be flocking over here as well.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: EphekZ on 2008-01-29 19:34 ]</font>

Very true. The only reason there is such an influx of immigrants from Mexico is the proximity. There are many countries around the world that are in similar condition, and in many cases even worse ones, yet they can't just pack up and leave as easily as they can from south of the border.

[Solstis]

So, are we actually taking the OP seriously?

I mean, really.

[AlexCraig]

On 2008-01-29 21:05, Solstis wrote:
So, are we actually taking the OP seriously?

I mean, really.


I agree. Have you seen his interests in his profile? Racism is among them.

[EphekZ]

Dislikes: World Peace, World War 2 Outcome

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[CelestialBlade]

Turn away Mexicans? Alright, sure, if you want to scrub toilets that badly. Nobody else is doing that shit but them.

[Mewnie]

BAN MEXAKINS!!!!!!!!!111111111111oneoneeleven http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/MagpieMouse/MewnPSU/uhrrr.gif

[ljkkjlcm9]

I just see one thing that's become a problem.

In basically every country in the world, people are told to learn english. In america, you don't have to if you don't want to.

On another note, the international language for flying is English. So, to be a pilot, you have to know english.

THE JACKEL

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-01-30 06:21, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
I just see one thing that's become a problem.

In basically every country in the world, people are told to learn english. In america, you don't have to if you don't want to.


... fair's fair if everybody in the end speaks the same garble of broken english and 12 other flavors of crap that wasn't like a life-threatening disability if you don't know it.

Spanish is a better language anyway (hell, anything except French and Japanese)

[Kylie]

I don't mind having to learn Spanish. I know a little already, and every other country (mostly) has more than one major language. We do need to get our borders secure though because it's like so disrespectful to disregard our rules like that and then take advantage of stuff that should be exclusive to our citizens.

[panzer_unit]

What... close the borders and lose a steady supply of labor that normal employment laws don't protect? That's a silly idea. The best you can hope from the powers that be is not seeing a return of slavery.

[AlexCraig]

On 2008-01-30 09:21, panzer_unit wrote:
Spanish is a better language anyway (hell, anything except French and Japanese)



Umm, that's a matter of opinion. I, personally, want to learn Japanese. And I do know some French.

[amtalx]

On 2008-01-30 11:05, AlexCraig wrote:

On 2008-01-30 09:21, panzer_unit wrote:
Spanish is a better language anyway (hell, anything except French and Japanese)



Umm, that's a matter of opinion. I, personally, want to learn Japanese. And I do know some French.



Hehe agreed. I speak Spanish, it's alright. I'm in the process of learning French and Japanese. French makes me want to hang myself, but Japanese is awesome (if difficult).

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-01-30 11:05, AlexCraig wrote:

On 2008-01-30 09:21, panzer_unit wrote:
Spanish is a better language anyway (hell, anything except French and Japanese)

Umm, that's a matter of opinion. I, personally, want to learn Japanese. And I do know some French.


Doesn't matter to me which languages you speak or want to. It's a linguistic fact.

English has non-phonetic spelling, French has freaking irregular verb forms, and Japanese has its kanji/katakana/hiragana whatever written forms. They're all needlessly hard to learn to no benefit (besides speaking to the English and Japanese respectively)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-01-30 13:35 ]</font>

[Abashi76]

Alright, forget the OP. Anybody with a historical education knows that the southwestern US was a part of Mexico before it was included into America. California was once 'northern' Mexico, and a lot of the city names reflect that, and were founded in Mexico before they became a part of America.

Now moving on. There has been talk about the Spanish language. The University system in CA requires that people learn a second language. I have a very difficult time with language in general, including English. I wasn't able to learn Spanish, although not to blame the language itself. As for the language itself, I like how it has consistent rules, however I can't stand how long the words are and how fast they are spoken. I'm pretty slow so this language is obviously not great for me.

I think that as far as learning languages is concerned, it ought to be a choice, not a requirement for anything. Although, its hard to function in this society and not know English.

Back to what the OP has stated again... whatever social problems there are: poor education, social violence, bad driving, etc... is not soley the fault of Mexicans or any other ethnic group. These problems stem from all the demographic groups (barring asians), and it is wrong to blame one end for all this state's problems. I honestly, disagree with the way people in my community scapegoat these people. Even if they aren't legally here, our social problems are NOT their fault. They and everybody else, legally or illegally living here, are all collectively responsible for the social problems. If you want to blame somebody, blame corrupt politicians, businesses, etc... along side those that advocate hate and hostility.

That pretty much sums it up for me.

As for French and Japanese > I have already witnessed the strangeness of a lot of the french words, although a lot of it seemed to be more like English than Spanish actually. As for Japanese, no idea, havn't tried it. I don't think its necessarily an especially difficult language, but rather one of the most different from any western language.

[AlexCraig]

On 2008-01-30 13:32, panzer_unit wrote:
Doesn't matter to me which languages you speak or want to. It's a linguistic fact.

English has non-phonetic spelling, French has freaking irregular verb forms, and Japanese has its kanji/katakana/hiragana whatever written forms. They're all needlessly hard to learn to no benefit (besides speaking to the English and Japanese respectively)


Then what would you consider a "worthwhile" language to learn? You rule out english, french, japanese, and spanish.

And you seem to have forgotten the occupational benefit from learning another language, regardless of what the language is.

[Randomness]

In (roughly) reverse order of posting:

To languages, English is a Germanic language, with heavy French influence (Due to history, France invaded England, yadda yadda).

As to learning a second language, some languages are (obviously) more useful than others. Spanish would be useful in the southwest, with the heaviest concentration of native Spanish speakers. Japanese and the major European languages have thier use in that they are (duh) major languages in eastern Asia and Europe. (Australia speaks English, Antarctica is uninhabited, Africa is mostly unindustrialized, and of course, the Middle East is a hotbed of violence. That leaves Russia uncovered when it comes to learning languages for business purposes, but I don't recall it being widely available in schools)

And now back to the original topic. While certainly we need to be able to control immigration, the wait time for getting the all-important green card is upwards of 6 months. Given that choice, crossing the border seems pretty attractive. Also, they DO contribute significantly to the US workforce (if illegally).

And as for the OP, I'm not even going to touch that salted bomb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/salted_bomb) of flamebait.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-01-30 13:53, AlexCraig wrote:
Then what would you consider a "worthwhile" language to learn? You rule out english, french, japanese, and spanish.

And you seem to have forgotten the occupational benefit from learning another language, regardless of what the language is.


LOL you're taking this SO SERIOUSLY. I made a little language-nerd joke and here's the third degree? English words are spelled funny compared to how they sound. You can take as much offense to that as you want.

EDIT: Randomness, don't forget the anglo-saxon part of English either.

EDIT2: I'm nobody noticed my subtle burn on the French. Doesn't anybody love us? {:'(

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-01-30 14:29 ]</font>

[RegulusHikari]

Glad to see the OP is a biased bigot English-extremist that gives America its bad attitude and reputation abroad. Also glad to know that you can speak for all of us and tell me that no one gives a damn about my language or nationality.

Modern 'American' English may be easy, but it's a pretty poor language, IMO. There's no rhythm or flow to it like a lot of other languages (I can only speak for Spanish).

I don't like the lack of initiative some people have to learn the language (it's common sense to know the language of the country you speak in), but please look past your ego and don't expect people to drop their heritage because you're insecure and don't know what they're saying.

I'm sure you'd love to go travel to another country with a lot of promise and be forced to forget your native tongue.

[McLaughlin]

French drives me nuts. It's mandatory up until Grade 10, and I don't remember anything. Except, "Je n'ais comprend pas."

I've learned and retained more in my three years of German than I ever did in French.

[omegapirate2k]

On 2008-01-30 15:16, Obsidian_Knight wrote:
French drives me nuts. It's mandatory up until Grade 10, and I don't remember anything. Except, "Je n'ais comprend pas."
Only had to learn it until up to grade 9 myself, your school is fucking weird though.

[VIRIDIA_HUNTER]

Thought the OP is a crazy racist, he is making some valid points. Only thing I dont understand about illegal immigrants is why they dont just apply to become a citizen. Seriously do they like to be labeled as "illegal" or something? I dunno whats the big deal about becoming a citizen...

[AlexCraig]

Last night, when I read this thread, I had a bit of an evilgasm. Nothing much, and nothing serious meant from it, but I felt we should build something like the Great Wall. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

But in all seriousness, Viridia, often times it has to do with their history, family, funds, etc.

[astuarlen]

Amen. I am so sick of those damn Canadian prescription drugs coming down here and stealing all the side-effects from American meds. It's disgusting, really.

[SJW89]

I just think Mexicans should be forced to speak English in English institutions and workplaces.

[Anduril]

On 2008-01-30 15:46, VIRIDIA_HUNTER wrote:
Thought the OP is a crazy racist, he is making some valid points. Only thing I dont understand about illegal immigrants is why they dont just apply to become a citizen. Seriously do they like to be labeled as "illegal" or something? I dunno whats the big deal about becoming a citizen...

The whole illegal thing is the fact that they are here without documentation, or their work visa has expired and they never returned to their home country (which accounts for many illegal Eurasian immigrants). They can't apply for citizenship, unless they were part of the group that was given an amnesty and legal resident status back in the 80's, like my father and grandmother. So it's not exactly desirable to go to a government office and alert them to the fact that you're not supposed to be here.

[Scrub]

This country was founded by immigrants. The fact that it's such a melting pot of races and ethnicities, even by today's world's standards, is one of the things that has made this nation into the great place that it is.

I for one welcome any and all immigrants, english speaking or not. You don't always need words to communicate with people, and hell, you don't need words to learn from someone, either.

There's nothing to be lost by allowing people in this nation, and there is everything to be gained. I honestly can not see how people would want to seclude the US.

Now, the laws concerning people of minority races/ethnicities is something I don't agree with at all, but that's another rant that's best not brought into this one.

[Ketchup345]

On 2008-01-30 15:46, VIRIDIA_HUNTER wrote:
Thought the OP is a crazy racist, he is making some valid points. Only thing I dont understand about illegal immigrants is why they dont just apply to become a citizen. Seriously do they like to be labeled as "illegal" or something? I dunno whats the big deal about becoming a citizen...If I remember correctly, the process of becoming a legal immigrant is long, especially if you factor in that there may be a situation where there are too many requests and not enough people to review them. According to one site I found, the US also limits the number of "normal" legal immigrants that can come from each country every year.

[McLaughlin]

On 2008-01-30 15:41, omegapirate2k wrote:

On 2008-01-30 15:16, Obsidian_Knight wrote:
French drives me nuts. It's mandatory up until Grade 10, and I don't remember anything. Except, "Je n'ais comprend pas."
Only had to learn it until up to grade 9 myself, your school is fucking weird though.



"Up until" is not inclusive of grade 10. After grade 9, I was free of that mockery of a language.

[omegapirate2k]

On 2008-01-30 19:01, Obsidian_Knight wrote:

On 2008-01-30 15:41, omegapirate2k wrote:

On 2008-01-30 15:16, Obsidian_Knight wrote:
French drives me nuts. It's mandatory up until Grade 10, and I don't remember anything. Except, "Je n'ais comprend pas."
Only had to learn it until up to grade 9 myself, your school is fucking weird though.



"Up until" is not inclusive of grade 10. After grade 9, I was free of that mockery of a language.



Oh, I see, well your school is still fucking weird.

[Sord]

Someone once said "Put them in the army," I'm down with that.

as per languages (talk about a huge sub-topic,) I hate having to learn to speak and listen to any other language. I have no hearing in my right ear, and it's hard enough to understand a damn thing in our own language when half the crowd mumbles like fucking idiots instead of speaking up. The spanish speak to fast for me to even begin to follow what they are saying, the french (at least actual french people) have that accent, and german is incredibly particular to pronounciation. However, I am very good at picking up on how to read languages. It's been a few years since I took a foreign langauge class (I've tried a litte bit of spanish, german, and french) so I don't remember hardly anything, but reading stuff in another langague was the only thing that ever gave me an A.

[Blitzkommando]

Of course English is a fucked up language. It's used by more people in the world than just about any other language outside of Mandarin. And that's just primary speakers. It's old, it's based on way too many different languages with their own crazy rules, and when you combine the roots of German, Anglo-Saxon, Latin, old Norse, and French with a little Celtic influence and you know you've got an abomination on your hands.

That said, American English is unique because they tried to correct some of these issues by eliminating non-sounding vowels when forming it (think color and colour). This worked, to an extent as some words in American English are genuinely easier to spell compared to their British counterparts. Oesophagus to esophagus was one such instance where the Latin root was changed in order to help. Still, the end result is English in any form is one of the most non-phonetic languages in history, along with French which also has heavy English influence. English also has plenty of sounds that are non-existent in most other languages, "th" being the easiest example. That's an old standby from the various Norse and other northern Germanic languages. We also have these really annoying redundant letters, like "c" and "s" and "z" all switching places with "t" sometimes doing the same when combined with "ion".

So, yes, English is definitely one of the most difficult languages to learn. Not most difficult as pronunciation is hardly as specific as some other languages, but still with all the cognates and homonyms it's a bitch to any poor bastard trying to learn it, especially the vernacular.

In the end though persons that are in any country illegally, they deserve to simply be deported. No need to make a big deal out of it. They broke the law, they get sent home. This country may be made of immigrants, but they for the most part legally immigrated here. It's an insult to them, the people that gave up their lives overseas (and often their livelihood) to come here while jumping through every legal hoop thrown at them to let anyone from any place stay illegally and not only stay but to gain benefits from doing so. I welcome immigrants here, so long as they follow our rules and laws as to getting here and as to staying here. It is their choice to come and if they do not agree with the laws here they should return to whence they came or try and enact due process to start the work for such a law (or the repeal if they disagree).

[trypticon]

Here's a video form of the differences in opinion here.


On 2008-01-30 18:03, Scrub wrote:
This country was founded by immigrants. The fact that it's such a melting pot of races and ethnicities, even by today's world's standards, is one of the things that has made this nation into the great place that it is.

I for one welcome any and all immigrants, english speaking or not. You don't always need words to communicate with people, and hell, you don't need words to learn from someone, either.

There's nothing to be lost by allowing people in this nation, and there is everything to be gained. I honestly can not see how people would want to seclude the US.

Now, the laws concerning people of minority races/ethnicities is something I don't agree with at all, but that's another rant that's best not brought into this one.



Scrub, seeming to be trying to appeal to all people he's never met to improve popularity (it doesn't seem sincere, sorry), reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWJ4udW41Ns


On 2008-01-29 18:48, BigBadBoozie wrote:
I mean seriously, what is with all these Mexicans just coming here and thinking they own the place? News flash, no one gives a damn about the Spanish language, and no one certainly wants to see it everywhere. I turned on the radio today, took me 10 minutes to find a damn station that had English music. Mariachi music sounds like a sick dog choking on a bone. You are ruining the education system since you cant speak a damn word of English, making everyone else look bad. Stay in your own country, you dont see the French trying to move to England.



Bigbadboozer, on the other hand, seems like he doesn't give a crap what a bunch of people he's never met think about him. His post reminds me more of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7m7XsFYusE

As an addition to this topic, I grew fairly bored with nobody understanding me anywhere I went years ago. It's not a recent thing. I live in northern Oregon, and even this far north, the illegal immigration problem is rampant. The majority of people working in public-facing positions (food, grocery, department store chain, etc.) are spanish, and while they probably do understand English enough to have attained the job in the first place, as that is a requirement, they refuse to admit that they speak it or even so much as understand it. It APPEARS to be a trait of unionization amongst them that demonstrates they want no part of fitting in, and that they seem to have a goal of taking over.

Case in point, when I graduated high school almost thirteen years ago, the school had possibly only a dozen or so mexican students. Most of them spoke English proficiently enough. Fast forward to today, and about 80% of the city I graduated in are comprised of Mexican immigrants. It's gotten so bad that the people who do remember what it used to be like now call the area "Little Mexico".

It's not a racist term, it is only a statement of the run down condition that the overwhelming amount of newcomers and increased gang activities have brought upon the area.

The thing is, nobody wants to do anything about the problems for fear of being considered or called racist. My own view is that if there is a problem, particularly with Spanish gang members raping underage white girls on a regular basis, or boozing them up to a degree that they are easily led to a sexual encounter, since that happens all the time up here, then you need to do something about it, no matter what you're called afterwards. It is an act of ethnic cleansing being practiced by the Mexican men in this area, and frankly I didn't like seeing it become common place over the years, and I'm not at all comfortable with seeing it prevail as the normal now.

Other countries go to war over this stuff, and good old America is standing back and just letting it happen literally unchecked.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: trypticon on 2008-01-30 21:37 ]</font>

[Abashi76]

On 2008-01-30 16:42, astuarlen wrote:
Amen. I am so sick of those damn Canadian prescription drugs coming down here and stealing all
the side-effects from American meds. It's disgusting, really.



LOL!



The thing is, nobody wants to do anything about the problems for fear of being considered or called racist. My own view is that if there is a problem, particularly with Spanish gang members raping underage white girls on a regular basis, or boozing them up to a degree that they are easily led to a sexual encounter, since that happens all the time up here, then you need to do something about it, no matter what you're called afterwards. It is an act of ethnic cleansing being practiced by the Mexican men in this area, and frankly I didn't like seeing it become common place over the years, and I'm not at all comfortable with seeing it prevail as the normal now.


The bold would be why you would be considered racist. Your view that hispanic men are out to get white girls is based on media reports, showing this happening. Its not like you ever hear a news report about white men raping hispanic girls, because the media does not report that. Your basis for your claims is based on biased media reports. You don't have any statistics to actually back this up. And its not like all poor people are hispanic, or that the west coast was somehow a paradise before they came and ruined it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Abashi76 on 2008-01-31 14:14 ]</font>

[Inazuma]

How come Mexico has never won in the Olympics?
Because all of their best runners, jumpers and swimmers are in the USA.

[SJW89]

On 2008-01-31 16:35, Inazuma wrote:
How come Mexico has never won in the Olympics?
Because all of their best runners, jumpers and swimmers are in the USA.



Because there was no event for bullet-dodging.

[Retehi]

On 2008-01-31 16:35, Inazuma wrote:
How come Mexico has never won in the Olympics?
Because all of their best runners, jumpers and swimmers are in the USA.



lol, You're a stupid ass.

[Ketchup345]

Ok, jokes belong in FKL. I'd say some of the later posts cross the line.