AotI: A little "rant" About "Elitism"

[DreXxiN]

Ok guys, I know a lot of people here don't like "Elitist", but it seems as though that gets mixed up with people that want to play competitively.

I hate when people think that I'm "elitist" or a no life just because I want to get things done, and it's a little irritating. Look, I don't ever mind helping the less rich/fortunate/skilled/etc. players, and if asked, I always will gladly. I was majorly a helper on PSO and do the same here. But when I'm hunting stuff and I want a competent party that can keep up with what I'm doing. I'm sorry to those level 60's, my apologies during the event when you came up to me spamming "WHY ARENT YOU INVITING ME" when you have 1000 HP and 5 10% dark weapons in your pallete. It's not that I am all "LOL IM BETTER I PULL BIGGER NUMBERS".

I find myself a very good player, and I know people say "you should just play for fun." My idea of fun is making myself the best I can be on this game with the time alloted, and left over from work, school, and my girlfriend. I like competitivity and I like getting rich in the economy, and hunting rares, and I love helping people do it too! But I'm sorry, if I can solo a run in 15 minutes, and I have 3 others that want to join me, and the run ends up being 10 minutes long. I'm losing 5 minutes in a run, but I'm also getting rares at 1/4 the rate! I don't know if anyone sees where i'm coming from, but I worked hard in the economy to get where I am now, so I could be capable of hunting these rares, and having someone in the party that goes afk without even announcing it, every 5 minutes, getting my S rank boards. It gets really irritating.

So I'm not trying to hate on the lesser players, and I will probably update this "rant" as it is frustrating me a little bit. I just don't like when people don't get what they deserve, and is why I often solo. I hope everyone has a nice end to the event, as I acheived quite a bit from this rather unpopular scenario. I'll mainly be doing with My GF, who is a level 114 Beast by the name of "Seority", and if there are any COMPETENT players out there that want to have a good time, but do it by owning things and not just leeching, send me a mail!
Peace,
-Drex (Sorry if this seemed at all offensive, as that wasn't planned.)

[beatrixkiddo]

This is how I feel. Except the girlfriend bit.

[Silver_Wyrm]

I wouldnt exactly call myself and elitist but I do liek thigns to get done, if its a group of fun people I dont mind but there are things I can be ****y about, like At's not using support spells as an example (gotta run now work calls) >.>

[DEM_CIG]

lmao i dont mind it that much i just hate when there are hugh lvl forces that dont heal the party when they are the only fores in there...

[Kamiense]

I quite agree on everything. I'm a competitive person as well, that's pretty much why I play video games in the first place.

[Sinue_v2]

You're elitist. Get over it.

Also, this goes in rants, not PSUGeneral.

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-31 15:34, Sinue_v2 wrote:
You're elitist. Get over it.

Also, this goes in rants, not PSUGeneral.



lol, Drex is nowhere NEAR elitist.

EDIT: Although it DOES belong in rants.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SATatami on 2008-01-31 15:35 ]</font>

[DreXxiN]

I suppose elitists help low levels and weak players all the time lol. Just more imcompetence I guess.

[Danger_Girl]

On 2008-01-31 15:24, DreXxiN wrote:
I find myself a very good player


You can be a very good chess player. You can be a very good athlete. You can be a very good cook. But honestly, this game is so freaking easy now, it's like saying, "I find myself to be very good at beating up preschool kids."

On another note, yeah those random pick up groups on uni 2 can be annoying sometimes.

[Inazuma]

wow, sounded like you were describing me. too bad your not on jp pc/ps2 ver, cuz i love to play w/ people like you.

[DreXxiN]

It seems to be still hard for a lot of the players on Uni2, at least from what I've seen on PS2/PC servers. Btw, Go Wisconsin!

[RemiusTA]

On 2008-01-31 15:34, Sinue_v2 wrote:
You're elitist. Get over it.

Also, this goes in rants, not PSUGeneral.



Anytime your complaining about why your character is better or how [x] class sucks or how [x] person shouldnt level [x] technic/skill because [x] is so much better and wont make [x] person suck


Then your elitist. Take a step back and stop being a dick. sometimes people just want to have fun, we dont need you swinging your e-peen all over the room.

But that may not be you, soooo....



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RemiusTA on 2008-01-31 15:41 ]</font>

[DreXxiN]

I never said anything about other people "sucking" too much for me, or not having enough "skills". If you took time to read the damn thing, you'd realise it was to people and why I wouldn't invite them because I don't want people that don't make runs go ANY faster getting what other people that are helping alot, and are hunting. Like I said, I'm willing to help anyone if they ask.

So basically, the only one being a dick if you assume that is me, is you for being ignorant and calling me one when I clearly did this in a very mannerly fashion. If not, well then Kudos. You're not a intelligently preset little kid =)

Also, you could always use the edit button instead of posting twice for more attention, especially when you get negative attention for the horrid grammar. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DreXxiN on 2008-01-31 15:44 ]</font>

[RemiusTA]

oya btw calling people incompetent because they have 1000 HP REALLY isnt going to help your hopeless case, kid.

Not everyone has 24 hours a day to dedicate to this game and the party your playing in. Getting angry for something as petty as someone going AFK and shaving 60 seconds off the time thats going to get you an S rank regardless is just sad.


Its a VIDEOGAME. You aren't going to work. If your going to be serious about it, at least be serious in a game that takes a bit more stragety. Smash Bros, sure. Halo, of course. PSO/PSU is more of a teamplay oriented game, and unless your team is underleveled for the mission, there is close to ZERO teamwork to be had.


I find that playing missions while underlevled with underleveled teammates is FAR more fun than just "owning things". Most others do as well.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RemiusTA on 2008-01-31 15:46 ]</font>

[pionear]

Well, yeah, but some ppl just have different play styles...And some ppl are late coming to the game, so they don't have the $$$ to have an all %50/ 10/10 weapon palette. Do you know how expensive it is to get those types of weapons (W/O the Meesta Hax, of course)?

And some ppl are in parties to lv. up PA's.....Now mind you, for the more difficult missions, yeah, it bugs me when certain ppl don't do their respective Jobs (ex. Forces healing) but during this Winter Event missions, hell, they are on the easy side, so I really don't care too much how most ppl play...It's really just one big giant rare hunt, for the most part.

[DreXxiN]

Oh yeah, I totally agree, it's hard for new players. And I'm really willing to help people that seem nice/give them discounts! Apparently all certain people see in this topic is "LOL IM PRO AND WANNA PLAY WITH PEOPLE ON MY LEVEL". I guess that shows how smart some of the net community has become. *tear* :< (Ack sorry for the double post, having some lag issues..)





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DreXxiN on 2008-01-31 15:47 ]</font>

[RemiusTA]

On 2008-01-31 15:43, DreXxiN wrote:


Also, you could always use the edit button instead of posting twice for more attention, especially when you get negative attention for the horrid grammar. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


Oh wow i misspelled a word your so much more intelligent than me


And like i said, you arent getting anywhere saying "i help lower players" but "i dont invite people with 1000 hp at level 60". You "arent elitist" but you write a topic that bashes people who have to take a break during a 15 to 45 miniute mission (And yes, they do get that long unless your level 11x +).

I see where your coming from, but i dont see what your arguement is about.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RemiusTA on 2008-01-31 15:52 ]</font>

[DreXxiN]

I'm not trying to compete man xD. (Also you had many grammatical issues as well, that I won't mention). Honestly I don't care though, who's being "Elitist" now? Dude, I'm just posting my opinion, and now you want to get in a flame war http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif. My my. Cut the sarcasm. Anyway, thanks for feedback people xD. I just wanted to see how people thought about this.

[SATatami]

Honestly, Remius sounds like the elitist here.

And oh btw, Drex. I'm depressed. The past two years of my life? Totally wasted. yeah. I feel just GREAT.

[DreXxiN]

How so?

And yes, I agree Remius, it can be fun (looking back at edited post), as is why I usually PA level or change classes in teams like that. The main point of this topic were for people that just contributed so little to the teamplay that they leeched items that others deserved by fighting harder is all. I think everyone can agree that that sucks..

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-31 15:55, DreXxiN wrote:
How so?




Besides being 2000 dollars in debt, unable to finish college due to said debt, and 2 years wasted on it, I'm aight... Fuck DeVry.

[DreXxiN]

Wow..I'm so sorry..shouldn't there be a way to re-enroll? *hugs* D:

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-31 16:01, DreXxiN wrote:
Wow..I'm so sorry..shouldn't there be a way to re-enroll? *hugs* D:



Oh yeah, there is. But how am I to afford college when I can barely cover food?

[DreXxiN]

Perhaps a loan? I'd help you if I could, but I already have to start saving up myself for this semester http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif. I personally think it's very important that you finish a degree you've already started in, so if a loan is what you'll have to do, go for it. Any average "career" will pay off your tuition in a few years. I can't quite be certain though. Best of luck to you! T_T;

[SJW89]

On 2008-01-31 15:24, DreXxiN wrote:
Ok guys, I know a lot of people here don't like "Elitist", but it seems as though that gets mixed up with people that want to play competitively.

I hate when people think that I'm "elitist" or a no life just because I want to get things done, and it's a little irritating. Look, I don't ever mind helping the less rich/fortunate/skilled/etc. players, and if asked, I always will gladly. I was majorly a helper on PSO and do the same here. But when I'm hunting stuff and I want a competent party that can keep up with what I'm doing. I'm sorry to those level 60's, my apologies during the event when you came up to me spamming "WHY ARENT YOU INVITING ME" when you have 1000 HP and 5 10% dark weapons in your pallete. It's not that I am all "LOL IM BETTER I PULL BIGGER NUMBERS".

I find myself a very good player, and I know people say "you should just play for fun." My idea of fun is making myself the best I can be on this game with the time alloted, and left over from work, school, and my girlfriend. I like competitivity and I like getting rich in the economy, and hunting rares, and I love helping people do it too! But I'm sorry, if I can solo a run in 15 minutes, and I have 3 others that want to join me, and the run ends up being 10 minutes long. I'm losing 5 minutes in a run, but I'm also getting rares at 1/4 the rate! I don't know if anyone sees where i'm coming from, but I worked hard in the economy to get where I am now, so I could be capable of hunting these rares, and having someone in the party that goes afk without even announcing it, every 5 minutes, getting my S rank boards. It gets really irritating.

So I'm not trying to hate on the lesser players, and I will probably update this "rant" as it is frustrating me a little bit. I just don't like when people don't get what they deserve, and is why I often solo. I hope everyone has a nice end to the event, as I acheived quite a bit from this rather unpopular scenario. I'll mainly be doing with My GF, who is a level 114 Beast by the name of "Seority", and if there are any COMPETENT players out there that want to have a good time, but do it by owning things and not just leeching, send me a mail!
Peace,
-Drex (Sorry if this seemed at all offensive, as that wasn't planned.)



Amen.

[Shadowpawn]

Before speak I would like to note that I didn't bother to read this topic however I would like to say this. Perception in itself is relative and if by your own standards you don't consider yourself an elitist then you aren't. Just play the game the way you want to play and stop letting what people say get to you.

[Mystil]

On 2008-01-31 15:32, DEM_CIG wrote:
lmao i dont mind it that much i just hate when there are hugh lvl forces that dont heal the party when they are the only fores in there...


With a full pallete of S rank rods/wands btw.

[Syl]

On 2008-01-31 16:04, DreXxiN wrote:
Perhaps a loan?



Slightly offtopic but I'll give some advice:

Do NOT associate your money with Wells Fargo. Ever. ESPECIALLY loans. They'll fuck you over big time.

[rogue_robot]

Off Topic: Also, avoid "student loan" companies. They're trying to screw you over.


On Topic: Elitism is just one of those things that exists on a continuum, and everyone has it to some degree. The problem is deciding where to draw the line and say a person can be categorized as an "elitist." For example, the 1000 HP / all 10% dark pallete may just be how someone wants to play - they like dark weapons, but not with a high enough percent to where they're just unusable against dark enemies, and they like it when enemies are always killing them. Rejecting them for it certainly ranks above zero on the elitism scale, but that doesn't necessarily mean you are an elitist - you just aren't into deliberately gimping yourself, either.

[Noblewine]

We can't be all perfect with that said what else can you do but try and keep going. And yes I had fun because I got the rare map on alpha and snuck the photon eraser out without losing it.

[Sord]

I certainly wouldn't call you elitist. From what you say, you help people at times, but every now and then, you want to play a mission for your benefit instead of grinding new players or others alts all the time. Sounds good to me, if you worked to get where you are, why the heck would you then never use it's full potential to play the game? If someone expects that a high leveled person has to help lower levels every time they're on, then frankly, they're just either lazy or don't play enough to warrant spending $10 dollars a month on this game. The game is easy as hell to level right now. Even without the event, grind AMF runs or something if leveling is that important to you. People don't need high-level babysitters all the time, give the higher levels a break to play their own way. Wanting to play at your own level is a far cry from being an elitist to the point of insult.

And yeah, I'll agree that if someone is AFKing every 5-10 minutes, it gets annoying. It's even more annoying when they are gone for periods of 5-10 minutes themselves. This game is about teamwork, if you're playing a level that has some actual difficulty (in most cases a group of players doing a mission with a rank they recently obtained, or perhaps a poorly matched up group) then yeah, YOUR TEAM SUPPORT IS NEEEDED. Without supporters, everyone dies within a few minutes. Without attackers, supporters are either left to run and gun and take forever to kill something or die themselves. When playing a team based game, there is nothing elitist about wanting your team to be just that, A TEAM.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sord on 2008-02-01 02:03 ]</font>

[thunder-ray]

Sord makes a good point that i agree with.

[icewyrm]

PSU elitists just solo all the time, they don't care about interacting with other people, they just want their rarz. Fair enough I suppose, although I do wonder why such folks bother paying the 10$ a month.

[ne1first]

Nice rant Drex lol. I kinda agree though, if there are good rares to be found, I would rather leave an empty space than filling it up with a timewaster/leecher.

It irritates me how people want to level their low level alts + their low level PAs + level a new class for the sake of it ("cuz my main is capped lolz"), and on top of that they want their equal share of the loot. This is not fair to the people who are carrying the weight of the party, using their main class, their best PAs, etc.

And I'm not saying for people to never level their PAs in parties, but just be sensible, ie don't level your lv10 burn shot when we need your killer shot. That's a bootable offense for me http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[amtalx]

On 2008-01-31 16:02, SATatami wrote:

On 2008-01-31 16:01, DreXxiN wrote:
Wow..I'm so sorry..shouldn't there be a way to re-enroll? *hugs* D:



Oh yeah, there is. But how am I to afford college when I can barely cover food?



I've been there (still am). I'll be in debt until around my mid-50s. Seriously, I've got $200k+ to pay back. But you generally don't have to pay back student loans while you are in school. Just go back, finish, get a better job, and it will actually be easier to pay everything off.

[Kylie]

I've got a problem with both sides of the argument... There seem to be so many different definitions of "elitism;" some are truly so distorted that I just laugh. To my knowledge, most of the people that are targeted as elitist are actually really nice, helpful players, but they're shy or rather play with people they know, friends. I see no problem with that. Personally, I'm in the middle. I play with friends when I can, and I help newbs or play with normals when I feel like it. So I'm turned off by the people accusing people of elitism and the ones that really are elitist ('cause I know some exist). In the end everyone should be able to play how they want and not have to worry about being labeled, especially if they're not deserving of that label. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_yes.gif

[ljkkjlcm9]

I got labeled an elitist, I still don't know how. I guess it's because i have my own opinions on things that don't go with what the majority says. That, and I only play with the friends I made and rarely ever do random parties anymore. Oh, and it might also be that I really enjoy the stuff that I have worked for.

THE JACKEL

[ljkkjlcm9]

On 2008-02-01 22:58, super_luu wrote:
When I party with randoms, I expect them to be crap. If I were seriously going to hunt something, I would just wait for my reliable party members.

I hate people like you. If you want rarz, go play offline.


I'm sorry, but that makes you far more elite than Drex

Expecting people to suck just because you don't know them? Hating people you have no idea about?

You're the type of person I despise. Every person I play with in the game now, was a random at some point. Randoms are not crap parties, just sometimes. And randoms don't agree on who gets what rares. That's the advantage of friends. That, and actually talking during a mission.

THE JACKEL

[Mystil]

On 2008-02-02 11:13, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:

On 2008-02-01 22:58, super_luu wrote:
When I party with randoms, I expect them to be crap. If I were seriously going to hunt something, I would just wait for my reliable party members.

I hate people like you. If you want rarz, go play offline.


I'm sorry, but that makes you far more elite than Drex

Expecting people to suck just because you don't know them? Hating people you have no idea about?


Oh yes. The one thing I always fall victim. The evil demon known as Assume. Why do people do it, I have no idea. blah

[ljkkjlcm9]

On 2008-02-02 18:38, Mystil wrote:

On 2008-02-02 11:13, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:

On 2008-02-01 22:58, super_luu wrote:
When I party with randoms, I expect them to be crap. If I were seriously going to hunt something, I would just wait for my reliable party members.

I hate people like you. If you want rarz, go play offline.


I'm sorry, but that makes you far more elite than Drex

Expecting people to suck just because you don't know them? Hating people you have no idea about?


Oh yes. The one thing I always fall victim. The evil demon known as Assume. Why do people do it, I have no idea. blah


oh trust me, there are plenty of rumors and other things passed around about me. I've met people and they've said, "Are you The Jackel? I've heard bad things about you." I just reply, "Yes I am. Everything you heard is true, it must be, because apparently everyone knows me personally."

Like the other day when someone was trying to tell me what had happened with my account, and why sega had suspended my account. I couldn't help but laugh.

People assume all sorts of things about other people, especially on the internet. I don't party with randoms anymore for completely different reasons. Firstly, I don't care to make any new friends on this game, they're the entire reason I'm still playing, and when all my current ones quit, I will promptly quit as well. Secondly, some people you get close to stab you in the back, or turn on you for no good reason. I don't care to have this happen again, I have good enough friends on the game now.

Random parties were wonderful when you're first starting, and trying to get into the game more. It was fun at first, but now, it's dull, and the friends I made are what keep me coming back, nothing else.

THE JACKEL

[unicorn]

Assuming people suck is better than expecting people to play a certain way. You're never disappointed.

And Jackel, I probably would despise you as well. But as you've already mentioned, you have enough people not liking you for your "elistism".

I didn't say all randoms suck. Alot do. And yeah, I'm prone to sucking as well, I'm not justifying anything.

And you guys are turning what I said against me (but of course, this is PSOW, why am I not surprised?). Whatever. Yeah. I hate you, your elitism, and your pet.

[icewyrm]

My pet died a few weeks ago... it was very sad, but she'd lived a long and quite pleasant life. Coolest cat I'd ever owned to boot.

If you knew her you wouldn't hate her... unless she woke you up in the morning by sinking her claws into your nipples, forcing you to get up and feed her a third breakfast.

And you both seem like decent people... I think you are misunderstanding each other over the internet, as is often the case :|

[HiroSan]

LOL fuckin WOW. is there REALLY an issue about this!? LOL it's a fuckin game, nobody cares if ppl are "Elitists", only the ppl who have something to bitch about. Cuz think about it: EVERYONE ON PSU IS CONSIDERED AN "ELITIST" ONLY BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY HAVE. True, no? U see someone with ALL this shit, like "zOMG u have ALL these RaRz, u MUST be GOOD!". LOL ya'll dont get it, do u? U dont know them. They could be the SHITTIEST player u've ever partied with, but yet they're just "lucky". LOL and with how things are nowadays, ANYONE can be considered an Elitist, does that mean we're all gonna hate each other???? LOL i swear, the people who only think of people as "Elitists" are the people who are jealous and want a reason to bitch about something. Grow the fuck up, u have NO reason to "hate" Elitists do u???? IMO, NO ONE IS AN ELITIST ON THIS GAME!!!! All i see ppl as Elitists are the ones i KNOW that are GOOD players, not for what they have. U guys who "hate" elitists need to grow the hell up, it's a fuckin game and u guys hate ppl on a game, how sad is that.

[Kion]

I really don't blame you for not wanting to party with level 60's, with nothing but a dark saber in their pallet. This game is horribly easy now, so there's not much elitism, more people who understand the game's system and those who don't.

in terms of parties it's really not fun playing with people who don't pull their own weight, or idiots who just don't get it. partying with players who now what their doing and can create strategies with their different abilities fun.

[thunder-ray]

On 2008-02-01 10:11, Lorelei wrote:
I've got a problem with both sides of the argument... There seem to be so many different definitions of "elitism;" some are truly so distorted that I just laugh. To my knowledge, most of the people that are targeted as elitist are actually really nice, helpful players, but they're shy or rather play with people they know, friends. I see no problem with that. Personally, I'm in the middle. I play with friends when I can, and I help newbs or play with normals when I feel like it. So I'm turned off by the people accusing people of elitism and the ones that really are elitist ('cause I know some exist). In the end everyone should be able to play how they want and not have to worry about being labeled, especially if they're not deserving of that label. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_yes.gif

I agree with you also whenever I run into a newbie that ask questions about the game I noramlly anwser the questions he has and also give him 100k to get him some decent equipment for him to work with and a good start in the game. I remember when I first started and some of my good friends gave me some money to start with so I dont mind helping newbie when i can but at the same time i would like to be able to hunt rares for my own benfit to or join my friends for a hard mission that needs my main. And about this whole elist thing i really dont give a fuck who thinks im a elist and if its about the rares that makes me a elist then you need to stop hating on me and go out there and hunt for them.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: thunder-ray on 2008-02-05 04:29 ]</font>

[ljkkjlcm9]

when I was a newbie... everyone was a newbie! lol

I remember when I finally got a single dagger in every element. they were like, 10% but I didn't care!

THE JACKEL

[thunder-ray]

well when i started most people were on like lvl 70 so i pretty much was a noob but i didnt label ppl bad names or call them greedy just because they wanted to hunt for rares. I just understood what they wanted and went on my own way and went to find a good place to lvl my main so i can be in the same lvl as high lvls. like i said before i have no problem with helping a low lvl out when i can but at the same time i might wana tech lvl, hunt for some s ranks, hunt for some units and lvl my alts up before i gotta go to work. helping a newbie is good and all that but at the same time i might have something planned that i wana do with my alts or my main it would make things better if ppl didnt get all anger over some little stuff like this. Back in the old psu it was very diffcult in my opinion to lvl my main or get money and weps. The newbies today shouldnt have nothing to complain about since its much easier to get weps and money in aoi thats just my opinion.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: thunder-ray on 2008-02-07 04:17 ]</font>

[Nitro Vordex]

On 2008-02-02 19:57, super_luu wrote:
Assuming people suck is better than expecting people to play a certain way. You're never disappointed.

And Jackel, I probably would despise you as well. But as you've already mentioned, you have enough people not liking you for your "elistism".

I didn't say all randoms suck. Alot do. And yeah, I'm prone to sucking as well, I'm not justifying anything.

And you guys are turning what I said against me (but of course, this is PSOW, why am I not surprised?). Whatever. Yeah. I hate you, your elitism, and your pet.




Hold on, that part just rubbed me wrong. What the hell do you mean by that? This was a great forum before you PSU playersPSU came out, and now we have to deal with crap like this, people saying they hate newbies, because they don't know what they are doing. How do you think the people felt about you when you first started, huh? Yeah, it's like a frikin' disease, going though this site, people not typing properly, bitching about random drops, problems with party members. There's an easy solution to ALL of this.
Stop playing the fucking game.
Games are never perfect, as the players aren't either. If you don't like the fact that people are "stealin' ur rarz" Solo. If that takes too long, then don't do it. Better than someone stealing it, right? This place is for you to get help, to greet other players, and to somehow turn a piece of crap game with a piece of crap community into something worth while.

To sum this up, solo if you want rares.
If you don't want random people, then do said above.
Don't like the item you get, when you finally get it?

Tough shit.

End rant.

If you wanna flame me, go right on ahead. There's a little something I'd like to quote before you do.
Internet arguments and the special olympics are somewhat alike.

Even if you win, you're still retarded.
I'm outta here.

[ljkkjlcm9]

On 2008-02-13 20:21, Nitro_Vordex wrote:
If you wanna flame me, go right on ahead. There's a little something I'd like to quote before you do.
Internet arguments and the special olympics are somewhat alike.

Even if you win, you're still retarded.
I'm outta here.


except there's one thing people don't seem to understand about internet forums. They're for debating. Debates are not to convince the person you're debating against. It's to give information, or opinions, to another person reading. It's to get information out there for people to read and understand. Hell, the entire point of threads such as "Which PA is better?" is for people to voice their OPINIONS about it, and debate it, for the poster to read and decide on their own what they prefer.

There's no winning or losing, and people don't seem to understand that. I don't argue or debate to win, I argue or debate to get the other side to understand my view point, I don't care if they agree, in fact, I'd find them weak willed if they kept changing their opinion. But hell, I love a good debate, it brings out information that anyone can find useful.

SO call me controversial or whatever, hate me for it as many people do. But the fact is, my many debates have given people different views or opinions on things. Agree or disagree all you want, but hell, I live in America, and that's what this country is about.

THE JACKEL

[Sord]

I don't think he meant argument in so much the vague term as debate, but more in the sense of when someone debates ignorantly and with insult to others. That and rants has become incredibly redundant now, because really, about all that is ranted about now is mostly rare drops, some beef against noobs, or how ST did this or that to screw the game over. Ironically that was what this forum portion was for, but then it sort of got it's own community and a few personal things and was like that for years. Now it's back to impersonal, which means a good chunk of ignorant guys who know nothing about one another throwing insults. FUN TIEMZ

granted, there are some new guys that are fine. But for every one of them there are 2 or 3 others who are just, well, not so good. This is the internet, IDIOCY IS EVERYWHERE.

[icewyrm]

Technically, the idea of a debate is to persuade the audience or judges to your cause, and disprove the opposition. The two sides of a debate are not attempting to persuade each other; only the third party. After all, if the opposing party could be so easily swayed to your position, they would not have begun the debate in the first place.

[ljkkjlcm9]

On 2008-02-14 03:49, icewyrm wrote:
Technically, the idea of a debate is to persuade the audience or judges to your cause, and disprove the opposition. The two sides of a debate are not attempting to persuade each other; only the third party. After all, if the opposing party could be so easily swayed to your position, they would not have begun the debate in the first place.


exactly. You're not trying to convince the other person. At the very best, you just want the opposition to see your side, and understand it, whether they agree or not. Apparently this tends to become my problem because people think I'm trying to push my opinion on people. I'm really not, I don't care if you agree, just see the points I make, and understand them, and I'll do the same for you.

THE JACKEL

[thunder-ray]

Its quite possible that you are saying your opinions the wrong way.

[GreenArcher]

Elitism is such a stupid term. Seriously, all the "well known elitist" that get mocked by everyone and cussed out by people who have never even interacted with the, it's just ridiculous. I've played with many of them, and you know what, they're really cool people too.

Any time someone wants to be effective, they get labeled LOLOL U R ELITIST AND U LIKE BIG NUMBAS TO FAP AND U HAV NO LIFE IN UR PARENTS BASEMENT LOLOLOLOL

If I'm looking for a rare weapon, or trying to level up fast and efficiently like during winter event, no I do not want a level 65 who gets one shotted by every enemy. I'll play with you some other time, but right now I'm trying to take care of my own things.




ps I wuv drex http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[thunder-ray]

On 2008-02-15 22:24, Green_Archer3 wrote:
Elitism is such a stupid term. Seriously, all the "well known elitist" that get mocked by everyone and cussed out by people who have never even interacted with the, it's just ridiculous. I've played with many of them, and you know what, they're really cool people too.

Any time someone wants to be effective, they get labeled LOLOL U R ELITIST AND U LIKE BIG NUMBAS TO FAP AND U HAV NO LIFE IN UR PARENTS BASEMENT LOLOLOLOL

If I'm looking for a rare weapon, or trying to level up fast and efficiently like during winter event, no I do not want a level 65 who gets one shotted by every enemy. I'll play with you some other time, but right now I'm trying to take care of my own things.




ps I wuv drex http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Amen

[Jakosifer]

On 2008-02-15 22:24, Green_Archer3 wrote:
Elitism is such a stupid term. Seriously, all the "well known elitist" that get mocked by everyone and cussed out by people who have never even interacted with the, it's just ridiculous. I've played with many of them, and you know what, they're really cool people too.

Any time someone wants to be effective, they get labeled LOLOL U R ELITIST AND U LIKE BIG NUMBAS TO FAP AND U HAV NO LIFE IN UR PARENTS BASEMENT LOLOLOLOL

If I'm looking for a rare weapon, or trying to level up fast and efficiently like during winter event, no I do not want a level 65 who gets one shotted by every enemy. I'll play with you some other time, but right now I'm trying to take care of my own things.



Quality post right here. No that wasn't sarcasm. >_>

[Raine_Loire]

Am I retarded or something cause I have no idea who this Jackel person is, and I've been on the forums a long time. I mean I've seen his posts before, but I never thought they were anything special... not good or bad. I didn't like him OR dislike him from what he wrote; but he writes about himself like he's Hitler- he's all infamous and people all know him (and hate him). He's all "I'm THE Jackel" I mean... does he mean he's the "Jackal" and he's possibly Bruce Willis??? Nah, no one hates Bruce Willis...

Also, @ Drex... I don't get what your post is about, really (and yes, I read it, but I fuzzed in and out because it's sort of rambling, and there are some words left out of various sentences...). I mean- there are a ton of people during events that say stuff like "Looking for S party, over lvl 100, plz" I've never seen anyone accuse them of being elitist... And there are a lot of people that want rares so they just solo or go with one or 2 friends- without feeling the need to make a big deal about it. It's just about getting the most out of the game, right? But I am amused by how the fact that you felt the need to insert that you have a girlfriend into your post... not once but twice ^_^ It didn't really serve a purpose as far as making your point... Ahh- it's such an old thread anyway...

[leblancdiaz]

Well I may be new to the forums but the way I see it, is we where once all noobs at one time or another hell I remember plenty of times when I was called a noob for not doing this, or not doing that. I today have been playing phantasy star online since the days of the dream cast. If your like me you take Dark Falz any day then a Chaos Bringer. Like every massive multiplayer online we can have many titles for players.

The way I see it we have 3 major titles:

For example we got the Elitist who has no life is on the game 24 / 7 usually using mommy and daddies money - not pointing fingers at anyone, can be two faced too a lot of players at many given times. Has to be the best of the best in everything in the game. When conflicted with someone being higher rank you could say they usually get upset or ignore the person. It's like Phantasy Star Universe if a player doesn't like what he / she hears from another player they use the black list. In my opinion that really doesn't solve the problem it's taking the easy way out of situations that can be easily solved if you let both sides have an equal share in exchanging information. Worse case you write a report to an admin, GM etc. Be warned though if you do make a claim about this person and it goes sour, make sure you have plenty of back up and evidience because if your like me, your next on my list to get killed. Hell is like my friend on Halo every time he finds someone that can beat him he shit talks or gets really, really , really angry. To me it's a game, you don't have to be the best of the best, it's how you play the game that counts.

We also got the casual gamer. Unlike the Elitist himself / her has real life issues that prevents him / her to play the game and to come out of the parents basement and into the sun. Only down side is 50% of his / her time is consumed trying to catch up with friends, family, guildmates, and other players. Him / her depending on these real life issues can or can not raid. It would be nice to see a good raid on Phantasy Star Universe, but I doubt it will happened. This player might be ridiculed countless times due to these real life issues. All they want mostly is to be treated the same even though they have these real life issues.

Finally we have the newbie, noob, n00blet or whatever you want to call it. This player is the one who has just got the game or is new to the game. Hell I'll admit I am still a newbie on games I've played and haven't played. This player is ridiculed plenty because he / she only asks the important questions were as most of us are to scared to ask in the first place. If your like me I'm not an upfront person, nor really interacts with people. I only interact with people I can trust that won't back stab you or are friends in real life that play the game and are in the same town / city.

Also I'm not trying to ride on a high chair which some of you may think. It's just the three major classes I see from time to time to time in all massive multiplayer online games. You can agree or disagree or even contribute. I am also not taking sides on this matter, I am neutral on both sides. I just make these posts to read other peoples suggestions. Without these suggestions we can not improve the game ability and game playability.

In conclusion if you want to pm me in game, people know who I am from just this user name better yet take a look at my character. Will be happy to talk about these issues.

Till then my friends, leave one in the chamber.

[Seority]

*coughs* I'm 120 now...*cough cough*


Lol, yeah he did mention me twice, cute, but he's just stating his point. The thing I find funny is that more then half the time we are together, we are on PSU, so I really don't see us hanging out getting in his way too much.

Let me just start off with facts:

Dictionary.com
e·lit·ism or é·lit·ism
The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.
e·lit'ist adj. & n.

Drex stated that he's not trying to shove the fact that he's higher level and/or has better stuff then others into their faces. He also says that doesn't find that he deserves special treatment for being cap or having such good items. He just does because that's what he's worked for.
I agree with that fact. I do find those people who just leave the party because a lvl 100 FF is doing more damage then their lvl 120 FF, but either way, they got to where they are by playing. It's true that not all bad players have crappy items. They could be simply new to the game, as I was, but I was good at doing the thing that makes me a good player. I'm a fighter and I kill the monsters. I also tank, take hits, for the techers / gunners in the party so they keep damaging, healing, while I use mates. Same thing goes for high rank people. Just becuase they play A LOT does NOT mean they themselves are good players. They can be selfish and just pick up all the items for themselves, afk through most of the mission, and not let lower level players tag. Now what Drex was stating was that you are more likely (<-key words) to be a better player if you have better things. He never stated that you have to have an S pallete for him to let you join, but that if you have a lvl 60 char, meaning you've been playing long enough to get all that experience, that you should have at least a decent pallete and armor. If you don't you are probably not a real good player. Does that mean you suck and that it's ok to harass you and call you a noob? No. It perfectly fine for you casual players to just play naturally and not really worry about being the best at it.
This brings up another thing that Drex stated. Even though he has top-notch stuff in the game, he's not determined to have it. As he casually plays, he gets items and he's the one to make the choice to either use a board to make a good weapon, or to sell the board at a decent price and use that meseta to get a good weapon. He plays the game well. It's true that he's a jack-of-all-trades at games and is naturally really good at video games, but still. I wouldn't call myself a pro gamer, but I have pretty decent pallete and use stratigies that help the party move faster. I'm a good player, which is possible to anyone. If you get offended by being denied a party slot and you're not really putting effort into the game, tough nuggets.

And to take off what was un-needly said by Jackel.

Dictionary.com
dis·cus·sion
*Consideration of a subject by a group; an earnest conversation.
*A formal discourse on a topic; an exposition

de·bate
–verb (used without object) 1. to engage in argument or discussion.
2. to participate in a formal debate.
3. to deliberate; consider.
4. Obsolete. to fight; quarrel

To discuss is to converse. To debate is to argue.


Dictionary.com
con·verse
to talk informally with another or others; exchange views, opinions, etc., by talking.

ar·gue
–verb (used without object) 1. to present reasons for or against a thing.
2. to contend in oral disagreement; dispute.
–verb (used with object) 3. to state the reasons for or against.
4. to maintain in reasoning.
5. to persuade, drive, etc., by reasoning.
6. to show; prove; imply; indicate.



No one, I think, never, not even once, said that "This is fact. You must believe this." All of discussions and debates are all about opinion, only difference is in a debate you try to win over, as was stated, the third party. You are not trying to get the other persons veiw, whose is already against yours, to be the same one as yours. If there is no other person, there wouldn't be a need for a debate, it just be preaching. When you create a debate, an arguement, you state that you are against the previously stated veiws, then list why. That's all. And I believe that is what has been going on since Drex started this thread.
Threads have the "Submit Post" button not to look shiney, but so you have the option to put in your opinion about the topic stated. Nor to go and try to cut and paste your idea into the others post.

Either way, to all this, I've put down the legal definitions of seleceted words and hope you all can grasp a better understanding of what DreXxiN has implied. Therefore, I agree with Drex and I'm not opposing. A discussion rather then an argument, for those who still don't understand the difference of it.
Those definitions are fact. Believe them if you want. Who am I to tell you otherwise? LOL.

[ljkkjlcm9]

On 2008-02-28 13:34, Seority wrote:
And to take off what was un-needly said by Jackel.

Dictionary.com
dis·cus·sion
*Consideration of a subject by a group; an earnest conversation.
*A formal discourse on a topic; an exposition

de·bate
–verb (used without object) 1. to engage in argument or discussion.
2. to participate in a formal debate.
3. to deliberate; consider.
4. Obsolete. to fight; quarrel

To discuss is to converse. To debate is to argue.


To debate is also to discuss, it even says it in the definition, you just didn't highlight that. You can debate without arguing. It can be an argument, or it can be a civilized discussion... don't just pick the part of the definition you feel like emphasizing

THE JACKEL

[Reipard]

@_@. Yes, it is a compelling argument...that is in 10 pixel font, all aligned to the center and sparsely populated with breaks at best.

I am not trying to be a jerk, Seority, but your post is really freaking hard to read.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Reipard on 2008-02-28 17:43 ]</font>

[thunder-ray]

Thats true about what u say but at the same time a debate can lead to a arguement if it gets out of hand.

[Raine_Loire]

While I'm not sure what dictionary a court of law would use in defining words, hence giving a "legal" definition, allow me to offer an alternate source.

Random House Dictionary

dis·cus·sion /dɪˈskʌʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-skuhsh-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument , comment, etc., esp. to explore solutions; informal debate .
[Origin: 1300–50; ME < AF < LL discussiōn- (s. of discussiō) inquiry, examination, L: a shaking. See discuss, -ion]

de·bate /dɪˈbeɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-beyt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -bat·ed, -bat·ing.
–noun
1. a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints: a debate in the Senate on farm price supports.
2. a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers.
3. deliberation; consideration.
4. Archaic. strife; contention.
–verb (used without object)
5. to engage in argument or discussion, as in a legislative or public assembly: When we left, the men were still debating.
6. to participate in a formal debate.
7. to deliberate; consider: I debated with myself whether to tell them the truth or not.
8. Obsolete. to fight; quarrel.
–verb (used with object)
9. to argue or discuss (a question, issue, or the like), as in a legislative or public assembly: They debated the matter of free will.
10. to dispute or disagree about: The homeowners debated the value of a road on the island.
11. to engage in formal argumentation or disputation with (another person, group, etc.): Jones will debate Smith. Harvard will debate Princeton.
12. to deliberate upon; consider: He debated his decision in the matter.
13. Archaic. to contend for or over.


This whole thread is falling under the category of so effing what... seriously, there's not a reason for this thread to have been made. I realize it's in "rants" but it doesn't seem like much of a rant, it just seems like 2 people that want to pretend that succeeding in this game has something to do with skill instead of time invested. This game is a straight up grind fest. If you have more than one character maxed, you've spent a LOT of time on this game. It doesn't matter how great your palette is, or if you have "strategies" (that made me lol, btw) you have to run missions over and OVER AND OVER to level. Some people enjoy that, and they invest their time in that. Other people don't like the grind, but they keep hanging on because they're hoping for something great. Some people bitch in these forums and quit the game. It's an individual decision, and why you would feel the need to defend your choice by trying to sound like you DON'T invest a lot of time in the game by saying "I have school, work and a gf!" is beyond me. I spent 3 days singing ONE song over and over and over on Rock Band until I got within 300 points of the first place score (I'm like- 32 now, boo). I offer no apologies, it's my time, I'll do what I want with it. And yes, I DO have a life, I'm married, I have a son, and I drive my husband back and forth to work 5 times a day starting at 5 am, and getting home the last time at 6 PM. I'm not home for more than 2 hours at a time during those hours. So if I could stand grinding, and didn't get bored and fall asleep within one run of PSU during the week, and had a couple of level 120 characters, I wouldn't pretend that it was SKILL, and I certainly wouldn't pretend that it was something that didn't take a large amount of my time to do!

Either way- I have never checked someone's palette before inviting them to a party, although I will leave a party if I play a few runs with them and it seems inefficient. I have also never heard of someone saying "Hey, why didn't you invite me!" to someone else, nor have I heard "Because your palette is crap, I think you should have better items." If it seemed like a common occurrence, I can see ranting about it, but it seems like all this thread has done was start a "elitism is great" VS "We were all noobs once" debate that doesn't seem to me like was even the point of the original post in the first place.

Seriously- play how you want- invite who you want... Who cares? And who "invites" to parties anyway except during event missions where you can't join mid mission?

[Sord]

...
this thread is still alive? And because nearly everyone wants to get technical about grammar? Wth rants, the OP hasn't even posted in this thread in nearly a month. Hell, I doubt he even cares by this point. I mean, yeah, going off-topic to semi-related topics is one thing, but grammar?! Just let this thing die already.

[SStrikerR]

I have a feeling you were talking about me going afk without saying something and then leeching your rares...was this event at de rol le?
(If it was I said that I'd be back in a few minutes...>_>)

But yeah I come back and I'm in the lobby and I have a [B] Ank Dedda as well as the [B] Vish Adac I got..

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

Stop it, topic over.

A little gung ho about grammar and debatable points elitism at the end of this topic, but not pertinent to the original discussion.