Speculation on lvl 50 PA Caps

[Leahcim]

With the lvl 50 PA caps that are coming, who do you think will get cap Increases and where? =D

Here's where I think the Cap increase will occur.

fF 50/20/0/0
fG 20/50/0/0
fT 10/30/50/40

FG 50/30/0/0
WT 40/20/40/20
GT 10/50/20/30

PT 40/50/0/0
AF 40/40/0/0
AT 20/30/30/50

FM 50/1/0/0
FG 1/50/0/0
MF 1/1/50/50
(the master classes with full S rank of their weapon types and at least A rank Saber and Handgun each)

Reasonings:


Tech High-Archy:
- In PSU, there was a noticable organization of tech classes where FT>WT>GT (meassured by Tech Caps, 30>20>10 respectively).
- In Aoi this system still exists but with different organization.
Attack Tech: FT > WT & AT > GT (40>30>20)
Support Tech: AT > FT & GT > WT (40>30>20)
- With lvl 50 spells I simply separated the lvl 30s.

I gave FT the extra support techs over GT because Fortecher is more techer than Guntecher.

I gave WT the extra attack over AT because WT is an offencive tech/melee hybrid while AT is support (even their whips are meant to induce SEs which is support not offence)


Fighgunner vs. Acrofighter
Giving FI and AF both the same caps (50/30/0/0) would continue with the trend that FI and AF are simply clones of each other. To distinguish, I gave one 10 attack and the other 10 ranged. I Gave Fi the 10 melee because of its pre-reqs (5 hunter 3 ranger) while the 10 ranged went to AF because of its reqs (3 Hunter 5 Ranger).

PT WT and FT
- These classes got dual level ups for the following reasons:
- PT because people would bitch to much if melee stayed at 30 with all their s Rank melee weapons.
- WT to keep its melee and tech on par with each other (and because the lack of any lvl 50 PA caps requires some sort of benifit, ie: two lvl 40 caps) This would fit the current position, where WT lack the max PA cap, but has two categories that both are 10 below the caps.
- FT because people would bitch if they stayed at 30 support.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Leahcim on 2008-02-03 18:56 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Leahcim on 2008-02-03 18:57 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Leahcim on 2008-02-03 18:58 ]</font>

[SATatami]

I honestly can't see them changing any of the current caps, while give the 50 caps to the master classes.

EDIT: also LOL PROTECHER.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SATatami on 2008-01-31 18:15 ]</font>

[DEM_CIG]

On 2008-01-31 18:13, SATatami wrote:
EDIT: also LOL PROTECHER.


Darn i was gona pint that out... o well

[Leahcim]

Didn't you hear? I invented A class =D

[Pillan]

Fortefighter: 50/30/0/0
Fortegunner: 30/50/0/0
Fortetecher: 20/30/50/40
Fighgunner: 50/40/0/0
Guntecher: 20/50/30/40
Wartecher: 40/30/40/30
Acrotecher: 30/30/40/50
Acrofighter: 50/40/0/0
Protranser: 40/50/0/0

That’s my expectation. It wouldn’t surprise me if Wartecher didn’t get 30 bullets, Acrotecher didn’t get 40 attack techs, Acrofighter didn’t get 50 skills, and Protranser didn’t get 50 bullets.

[SATatami]

>_>; At least it wasn't Leetecher.

[DEM_CIG]

no i didnt, but did u hear theres a new progunner and profighter class to... ^-^ there pa's go to 60

[Leahcim]

Pillan, so you think they'd just give everyone 10+ in everything? =O

Don't you think that, for example, Fortegunners with lvl 30 Majarra a little odd? >_>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I'd like AF to get level 50 PAs, or at least I hope.

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-31 18:24, Leahcim wrote:
Pillan, so you think they'd just give everyone 10+ in everything? =O

Don't you think that, for example, Fortegunners with lvl 30 Majarra a little odd? >_>



Who says they're going to change the class PA types at all? with the master classes coming out, I honestly can see their level 50 PA exclusivity being their selling point.

[Leahcim]

Well, its not like lvl 40 Chika with S rank Slicers, Just attack and speed boost is weak now is it? =P

[DEM_CIG]

On 2008-01-31 18:24, Leahcim wrote:
Pillan, so you think they'd just give everyone 10+ in everything? =O

Don't you think that, for example, Fortegunners with lvl 30 Majarra a little odd? >_>


yes like a WT with 30 bullets... nonsense thats even worse but its spells should go to 40 attack/ 30 support spells...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DEM_CIG on 2008-01-31 18:29 ]</font>

[Pillan]

On 2008-01-31 18:24, Leahcim wrote:
Pillan, so you think they'd just give everyone 10+ in everything? =O

Don't you think that, for example, Fortegunners with lvl 30 Majarra a little odd? >_>


Not at all. What does a full combo have to do with the class? It's always been about how their power compares to the others. Fortegunner will still be around 6% weaker even if they had the same ATP as a hunter class, just as Fortefighter's handguns won't be able to compete with anything a Fortegunner can do with the same gun and a max level bullet just because of the huge multiplier difference.

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-31 18:27, Leahcim wrote:
Well, its not like lvl 40 Chika with S rank Slicers, Just attack and speed boost is weak now is it? =P



Not the point~ The point being, say, Mastertecher or ForceMAster or whatever it's called. if you gave FT 50 Attack techs and AT 50 support, would having both 50 attack and support on one class really be worth it? =/

[Shiro_Ryuu]

On 2008-01-31 18:27, Leahcim wrote:
Well, its not like lvl 40 Chika with S rank Slicers, Just attack and speed boost is weak now is it? =P



Well, its not like Slicers are the only thing I ever use as an AF, nwo is it? =P

[DEM_CIG]

On 2008-01-31 18:29, SATatami wrote:

On 2008-01-31 18:27, Leahcim wrote:
Well, its not like lvl 40 Chika with S rank Slicers, Just attack and speed boost is weak now is it? =P



Not the point~ The point being, say, Mastertecher or ForceMAster or whatever it's called. if you gave FT 50 Attack techs and AT 50 support, would having both 50 attack and support on one class really be worth it? =/


Yes, it would...

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-31 18:31, DEM_CIG wrote:

On 2008-01-31 18:29, SATatami wrote:

On 2008-01-31 18:27, Leahcim wrote:
Well, its not like lvl 40 Chika with S rank Slicers, Just attack and speed boost is weak now is it? =P



Not the point~ The point being, say, Mastertecher or ForceMAster or whatever it's called. if you gave FT 50 Attack techs and AT 50 support, would having both 50 attack and support on one class really be worth it? =/


Yes, it would...



I'm not seeing it. >_>

[Leahcim]

Well... If FI and AF were competing for +10 Melee PA levels, I think FI would get them over AF.
- The Pre-Reqs (5hunter/3ranger for FI while 3Hunter/5ranger for AF)
- Only calss with Access to double sabers at all anyone?

WTs would not need lvl 30 Support. They are a soloing offencive Melee/Magic class. Giving a such a class the ability to support everyone is a little much =/



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Leahcim on 2008-01-31 18:37 ]</font>

[Leahcim]

And I agree with DEM, "yes it would"



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Leahcim on 2008-01-31 18:37 ]</font>

[DEM_CIG]

On 2008-01-31 18:36, Leahcim wrote:
And I agree with DEM, "you it would"


u mean yes* it would

[Leahcim]

On 2008-01-31 18:37, DEM_CIG wrote:

On 2008-01-31 18:36, Leahcim wrote:
And I agree with DEM, "youyes it would"


u mean yes* it would



Right http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

Also, until we know what exactly the master calsses are, lets leave them out of this >_>



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Leahcim on 2008-01-31 18:39 ]</font>

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-31 18:38, Leahcim wrote:

On 2008-01-31 18:37, DEM_CIG wrote:

On 2008-01-31 18:36, Leahcim wrote:
And I agree with DEM, "youyes it would"


u mean yes* it would



Right http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

Also, until we know what exactly the master calsses are, lets leave them out of this >_>



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Leahcim on 2008-01-31 18:39 ]</font>


Well, you do have to keep in mind that the PAs are being upped with the release of the master classes. Doesn't that strikee you as a bit odd? I honestly don't think you can have a subject like this that doesn't involve them... =/

[DEM_CIG]

o yes u can... some how jk... when the master classes come out then there really will be no reason to raise pa's of the other classes... will there ???

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-31 18:44, DEM_CIG wrote:
o yes u can... some how jk... when the master classes come out then there really will be no reason to raise pa's of the other classes... will there ???



Exactly my point. o.o They wouldn't be very "masterful" if every other class could match their PA levels of power. >_>

[Pillan]

On 2008-01-31 18:35, Leahcim wrote:
Well... If FI and AF were competing for +10 Melee PA levels, I think FI would get them over AF.
- The Pre-Reqs (5hunter/3ranger for FI while 3Hunter/5ranger for AF)
- Only calss with Access to double sabers at all anyone?


Why do they need to compete?

Never base anything about class performance on the requirements. Fighgunner is a far superior ranger than Acrofighter just from the higher ATP and that’s further heightened crossbow/machinegun access. Besides double sabers and spears, Acrofighter is the superior hunter from the speed boost. And don’t forget WT requires FO 5 even though its melee strength is far superior to its tech strength.

They both have the same PA restrictions now, so why wouldn’t they have it later?

EDIT:

I forgot to add that the reason I thought AF might just get 40 bullets instead of 50/40 like Fighgunner was because of the speed bonus, which puts its ATP beyond that of FG right now (making it all-around better). That is if ST decides they want to balance AF with FG.


On 2008-01-31 18:35, Leahcim wrote:
WTs would not need lvl 30 Support. They are a soloing offencive Melee/Magic class. Giving a such a class the ability to support everyone is a little much =/


A Wartecher with 30 support would still be considered to have pathetic support when everyone else has 40 and 50 support, so the only change is that Casts and Beasts don’t have as much of an issue with the low TP modifier and no one has an issue with the range of support in general. Not to mention that Wartecher would actually, you know, improve the non-techers buff levels, giving you a real reason to play as them at all without destroying the use of the other classes.

30 support doesn’t change anything when you have 40 skills and 40 attack techs, just like 20 support doesn’t change anything when you have 30 skills and 30 attack techs. I don’t see the big deal.


But that’s just my expectation. Don’t expect me to look surprised when it happens. And we all know I don’t expect the master classes to be any better, just different. We’ll see what happens though.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2008-01-31 18:57 ]</font>

[Leahcim]

For all you know the master classes could just be another set of Expert Classes like the Fortes, Acros and Hybrids >_>

So just leave it for now okay? -.-

[3nascar3fan3]

actually i believe it would be more like this

Fortefighter: 50/30/0/0
Fortegunner: 30/50/0/0
Fortetecher: 20/30/50/30
Fighgunner: 50/30/0/0
Guntecher: 0/40/30/40
Wartecher: 40/0/40/30
Acrotecher: 30/20/30/50
Acrofighter: 40/40/0/0
Protranser: 30/40/10/20

Fighmaster: 50/0/0/0
Gunmaster: 0/50/0/0
MasterForce: 0/0/40/40

Notice that Fotetecher is best 50/30 while Acrotecher is 30/50 and MasterForce is 40/40 making FT and AT the best in their class respectivelly and making MF split the middle.

From what I have heard the master classes are supposed to mix with the current set NOT be superior to them. If you want the best in ONE catagory then the master classes will be the best for that job but if you want some variety and not be limited to one type of attack the others will do better.

Also note the 0 for PA's for Guntecher and the 0 for Bullets on Wartecher. I have also heard that the few striking that GT gets and the few ranged that WT gets will be taken away to make them less of an all around class.

Futhermore note Protranser's techs at 10/20. I heard that Protranser would be nerfed and that some S will be reduced to A's while adding more A's like wands.

But nothing is confirmed. And I would think this is the best fit/mix that makes all of the classes have thier specific job if you know what I mean.

[DEM_CIG]

If that that does happen then fg's should get 40 bullets since they are a hybird class...

[SATatami]

Taking away bows and cards? I don't know where you heard THAT, but that sounds like straightup BS, as much as protranser getting magic.

[Leahcim]

=/

I think I'm gonna stand by mine on the front page here lol

[HFlowen]

On 2008-01-31 18:53, SATatami wrote:
Taking away bows and cards? I don't know where you heard THAT, but that sounds like straightup BS, as much as protranser getting magic.

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-31 18:56, HFlowen wrote:

On 2008-01-31 18:53, SATatami wrote:
Taking away bows and cards? I don't know where you heard THAT, but that sounds like straightup BS, as much as protranser getting magic.





oh shi- I've been lazily quoted for my first time http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif Flowen, you devil you, popping my quote cherry~ tee hee. *HEAD ASPLODE*

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Yeah, FI getting the same level bullets as FF doesn't make sense, and I still think AF should get lv 50 skills since it is AcroFIGHTER.

I dunno, just my 2 cents.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2008-01-31 19:00 ]</font>

[HFlowen]

On 2008-01-31 18:57, SATatami wrote:

On 2008-01-31 18:56, HFlowen wrote:

On 2008-01-31 18:53, SATatami wrote:
Taking away bows and cards? I don't know where you heard THAT, but that sounds like straightup BS, as much as protranser getting magic.





oh shi- I've been lazily quoted for my first time http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif Flowen, you devil you, popping my quote cherry~ tee hee. *HEAD ASPLODE*

DEAR GOD, WHAT HAVE I DONE!?

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-31 19:00, HFlowen wrote:

On 2008-01-31 18:57, SATatami wrote:

On 2008-01-31 18:56, HFlowen wrote:

On 2008-01-31 18:53, SATatami wrote:
Taking away bows and cards? I don't know where you heard THAT, but that sounds like straightup BS, as much as protranser getting magic.





oh shi- I've been lazily quoted for my first time http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif Flowen, you devil you, popping my quote cherry~ tee hee. *HEAD ASPLODE*

DEAR GOD, WHAT HAVE I DONE!?

*acts all clingy virgin on Flowen's arm*

[Leahcim]

On 2008-01-31 18:59, Shiroryuu wrote:
Yeah, FI getting the same level bullets as FF doesn't make sense, and I still think AF should get lv 50 skills since it is AcroFIGHTER.

I dunno, just my 2 cents.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2008-01-31 19:00 ]</font>


Do GunTECHER, AcroTECHER or WarTECHER get maxed TECHs? nope

[DEM_CIG]

nope

[-Tidus_415-]

How about they only give the master classes LV50 PA's to screw over the expert classes even more.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

On 2008-01-31 19:02, Leahcim wrote:

On 2008-01-31 18:59, Shiroryuu wrote:
Yeah, FI getting the same level bullets as FF doesn't make sense, and I still think AF should get lv 50 skills since it is AcroFIGHTER.

I dunno, just my 2 cents.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2008-01-31 19:00 ]</font>


Do GunTECHER, AcroTECHER or WarTECHER get maxed TECHs? nope



I know, I just want my Acrofighter to keep its more Hunter than Ranger status, that's all. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-31 19:03, -Tidus_415- wrote:
How about they only give the master classes LV50 PA's to screw over the expert classes even more.



Even if they only give the master classes lvl 50 PAs and no one else they'd STILL be unable to deaal more than one type of damage, most likely. Like, when a wartecher comes across melee resistant robots, he starts using magic instead... Yeah?

[Pillan]

On 2008-01-31 19:02, Leahcim wrote:
Do GunTECHER, AcroTECHER or WarTECHER get maxed TECHs? nope


Do 3 classes share max skills and 3 classes share max bullets?

Comparing anything to the skewedness of tech limits and the base TP stat is a bad idea. ST seems to maintain their stance that Newman Fortetechers are the only race/class combination that really benifits from attack tech damage.

That being said, I'll be slightly more surprised if AF has a 40 skill cap just because it means Sonic Team learned something about balance. (Looking at fF 20's ATP, I'd say it's safe to assume that's not the case though...)

[Leahcim]

HOLLY MOTHER FU-

185% ATP? DUMB SEGA, Seriously... that is so dumb D=

[DEM_CIG]

... ok ??? im lost

[beatrixkiddo]

Spoilers: no class will ever have a 0 cap in any weapon category they have access to.

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-31 19:11, beatrixkiddo wrote:
Spoilers: no class will ever have a 0 cap in any weapon category they have access to.



You ruined the game for me. I HATE you now. D:

[DEM_CIG]

awww darn it...

[Shiro_Ryuu]

On 2008-01-31 19:06, Pillan wrote:

On 2008-01-31 19:02, Leahcim wrote:
Do GunTECHER, AcroTECHER or WarTECHER get maxed TECHs? nope


Do 3 classes share max skills and 3 classes share max bullets?

Comparing anything to the skewedness of tech limits and the base TP stat is a bad idea. ST seems to maintain their stance that Newman Fortetechers are the only race/class combination that really benifits from attack tech damage.

That being said, I'll be slightly more surprised if AF has a 40 skill cap just because it means Sonic Team learned something about balance. (Looking at fF 20's ATP, I'd say it's safe to assume that's not the case though...)



Yeah, that too.

[Pengfishh]

lol what

[mvffin]

my prediction.

FF- 50/20/0/0
FG- 20/50/0/0
FT- 10/30/50/30
FI- 40/40/0/0 or 50/30/0/0
GT- 10/50/20/30
WT- 30/30/30/30
PT- 40/40/0/0
AF- 40/40/0/0
AT- 20/20/30/50

and thats even IF they increase any levels. they may just keep lvl 50's to the master- classes only.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Knowing Sega, I predict it will look like this:


Expert Types: stay the same

FM: 50/30/0/0
GM: 30/50/0/0
MF: 20/30/50/40
AM (why did you all forget Acromaster?): 20/20/40/50

[SATatami]

On 2008-01-31 22:26, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
AM (why did you all forget Acromaster?): 20/20/40/50


Because Acromaster hasn't officially been announced for PC/PS2, even though it's in the data. =]

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

But this is a speculation topic, so why does that matter?

[Indica]

On 2008-01-31 18:13, SATatami wrote:
I honestly can't see them changing any of the current caps, while give the 50 caps to the master classes.

EDIT: also LOL PROTECHER.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SATatami on 2008-01-31 18:15 ]</font>



YES! Im hoping only Masterforce or Master type classes only get LV50 stuff

[SATatami]

Oh, btw.


Giving FI and AF both the same caps (50/30/0/0) would continue with the trend that FI and AF are simply clones of each other.

lol WUT? o.O; how come I've not heard of this "trend" that the classes are "clones?"

[Rayokarna]

On 2008-01-31 18:51, 3nascar3fan3 wrote:

1) Protranser: 30/40/10/20

Fighmaster: 50/0/0/0
Gunmaster: 0/50/0/0
MasterForce: 0/0/40/40


2) From what I have heard the master classes are supposed to mix with the current set NOT be superior to them. If you want the best in ONE catagory then the master classes will be the best for that job but if you want some variety and not be limited to one type of attack the others will do better.



3) Futhermore note Protranser's techs at 10/20. I heard that Protranser would be nerfed and that some S will be reduced to A's while adding more A's like wands.




1) Protransers getting techs, I see. But it's not gonna happen.

No PA cap is gonna be 0, especially when the mechanics in the game require everyone to use a handgun.

2) From what you heard is what from the TC last topic about the Masterclasses. Nothing has been said about them.

3) I lol'ed. They are not gonna nerf PT, cause it wouldn't make sense.

[physic]

m/g/su/att
fortefighter 50/20/0/0
figunner 50/30/0/0
wartecher 30/20/30/30
fortegunner 50/20/0/0
guntecher 10/40/30/30
fortecher 10/30/30/50
protranser 40/40/0/0
acrofighter 40/40/0/0
acrotecher 20/20/50/30

thats my feeling, i think only forte or master wil have access to the 50s thats why they are forte, except i cant see them giving figh level 40 bullets so they are teh exception

[Leahcim]

On 2008-01-31 22:26, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
Knowing Sega, I predict it will look like this:


Expert Types: stay the same

FM: 50/30/0/0
GM: 30/50/0/0
MF: 20/30/50/40
AM (why did you all forget Acromaster?): 20/20/40/50



Because, Acromaster was NEVER confirmed to be realised online. only in PSU portable.

[amtalx]

All I have to say about bullets is...

WHERE'S MAH SE5?

Haha, never going to happen, but a boy can dream can't he? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[mvffin]

Acro Master was found in the AOI game data before PSP version was announced. I think they will release it later on, since they released acro classes long after the original 7 experts.

also, acro master is going to be a combination of both acro classes... so I'd think it would be something like this.

30/20/20/40
Probably broken, but i dont see exactly how they would combine AF and AT. they're just so different.

[Mag_Launcher]

Oh lawd, why did I get the feeling this was here to push more crackpot theories of "OMG, NERF THE MASTER CLASSES TO BE EVEN LESS USEFUL THAN FORTE SO I DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE!"?

[NPCMook]

Chances are the Master classes WILL be the only ones with level 50 PA's, giving the Forte classes level 50 PA's would almost be like giving Hunter, Ranger, and Force level 30 PA's...

Mastergunner/fighter, will also probably have access to at least B rank wands and level 10 techs. And for those of you who says "LAWL THATS TO BROKEN." Lets look at it this way, giving them access to say B rank wands, and level 10 Techs... what they most they are gonna do? 250? 500? Buffs? yeah.. thats gonna be worth it! "I HAVE TO RECAST MY BUFFS EVERY MINUTE YAY"

[Kylie]

I imagine it's only for master classes, but...

fF 50/20/0/0
fG 20/50/0/0
fT 20/30/50/40

FG 50/30/0/0
WT 40/30/40/30
GT 20/50/20/30

PT 40/50/0/0
AF 40/40/0/0
AT 30/20/40/50

FM 50/10/0/0
FG 10/50/0/0
MF 0/10/50/50

[NPCMook]

On 2008-02-01 10:18, Lorelei wrote:
I imagine it's only for master classes, but...

fF 50/20/0/0
fG 20/50/0/0
fT 20/30/50/40

FG 50/30/0/0
WT 40/30/40/30
GT 20/50/20/30

PT 40/50/0/0
AF 40/40/0/0
AT 30/20/40/50

FM 50/10/0/0
FG 10/50/0/0
MF 0/10/50/50

So you are saying the Master classes would be worse than the Fortes?

[Dein]

Lvl 50 PA caps will likely belong to the master classes as has been said by many people already but for the distribution of the caps for these classes I have two guesses.

Conservative guess
FM-50/40/0/0
GM-40/50/0/0
MF-0/40/50/50
Basically stronger fortes but as for my other guess

FM-50/40/20/20
GM-40/50/30/30
MF-30/40/50/50

I'm really hoping my second guess is right (or close) as that would make for very flexible classes with wider play styles. I'm predicting that lvl 20 is the max type lvl for expert types and that they won't see a PA cap increase but we'll see in March. As for Acromaster, whenever they decide to release that, my guess is that it'll be 50/40/40/50.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dein on 2008-02-01 10:44 ]</font>

[Dein]

Edit: Sorry double posted http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dein on 2008-02-01 10:43 ]</font>

[SATatami]

On 2008-02-01 10:42, Dein wrote:
Lvl 50 PA caps will likely belong to the master classes as has been said by many people already but for the distribution of the caps for these classes I have two guesses.

Conservative guess
FM-50/40/0/0
GM-40/50/0/0
MF-0/40/50/50
Basically stronger fortes but as for my other guess

FM-50/40/20/20
GM-40/50/30/30
MF-30/40/50/50

I'm really hoping my second guess is right (or close) as that would make for very flexible classes with wider play styles. I'm predicting that lvl 20 is the max type lvl for expert types and that they won't see a PA cap increase but we'll see in March. As for Acromaster, whenever they decide to release that, my guess is that it'll be 50/40/40/50.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dein on 2008-02-01 10:44 ]</font>


Why would any of them have more than 10 of anything they're not a master of? I mean seriously. Being a MASTER of something makes you suck at everything else. Crap don't make sense, son.

[Kylie]

On 2008-02-01 10:27, NPCMook wrote:

On 2008-02-01 10:18, Lorelei wrote:
I imagine it's only for master classes, but...

fF 50/20/0/0
fG 20/50/0/0
fT 20/30/50/40

FG 50/30/0/0
WT 40/30/40/30
GT 20/50/20/30

PT 40/50/0/0
AF 40/40/0/0
AT 30/20/40/50

FM 50/10/0/0
FG 10/50/0/0
MF 0/10/50/50

So you are saying the Master classes would be worse than the Fortes?


No. I'm saying that, assuming that expert classes get LV50 (which I don't think'll happen), they'll have more all over levels, while master classes will be concentrated. Kind of hard to see that with just numbers and not anything else, but imagine like all combat weapons and some range on FM, etc. Hell, imagine more ATP on FM as well. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lorelei on 2008-02-01 10:57 ]</font>

[Dein]

On 2008-02-01 10:45, SATatami wrote:
Why would any of them have more than 10 of anything they're not a master of? I mean seriously. Being a MASTER of something makes you suck at everything else. Crap don't make sense, son.



If that's the case why don't the forte types have have 10 in the other skills besides what they specialize in? You should check your own logic before going after someone else's. Besides being a master in one field doesn't mean you can't have any knowledge in other abilities, especially if the master classes need 2 or 3 expert types leveled to unlock.

[HFlowen]

Oh great, name debates.

Inb4dictionaries.

[Dein]

I'm not going to get into a name debate over this lol. I'm just trying to make a point that if the master classes are going to be higher than the expert types (lvl 50 pa cap exclusive, ect.) then it'd be a bad move on Sega's part to give them only 10 max in a secondary skill besides that class's focal point. Might as well make the 4 classes that are above experts have a wide range of abilities to keep them interesting than to try limit them.

[SATatami]

On 2008-02-01 10:57, Dein wrote:

On 2008-02-01 10:45, SATatami wrote:
Why would any of them have more than 10 of anything they're not a master of? I mean seriously. Being a MASTER of something makes you suck at everything else. Crap don't make sense, son.



If that's the case why don't the forte types have have 10 in the other skills besides what they specialize in? You should check your own logic before going after someone else's. Besides being a master in one field doesn't mean you can't have any knowledge in other abilities, especially if the master classes need 2 or 3 expert types leveled to unlock.



Well, look at it like this. Weapon specialties can be viewed as such: Hybrid>Forte>Master. If you look at the limits, to more you go towards, say, master, or forte, the lower your alternative PA limits get. (with the exception of FTs, those lucky SOBs. >_>) Basically, my point is, what's the point of being a FIGHmaster when you have the PA limits of a Fortegunner?

[Dein]

On 2008-02-01 11:11, SATatami wrote:
Basically, my point is, what's the point of being a FIGHmaster when you have the PA limits of a Fortegunner?



Weapon selection would be the point. Figunner has lvl 30 in bullets with relatively light ranged weapons and I'd imagine it'd be the same case for Fighmaster. It'd be focused on melee fighting but if you want to use guns and techs some you'd be able to do so at a comfortable level. This is all me presuming that ST will have the master classes meshing together multiple expert types so that one class can fill several roles rather than the current 1 class fills one role of gameplay system expert types are locked into.

[SATatami]

On 2008-02-01 11:30, Dein wrote:

On 2008-02-01 11:11, SATatami wrote:
Basically, my point is, what's the point of being a FIGHmaster when you have the PA limits of a Fortegunner?



Weapon selection would be the point. Figunner has lvl 30 in bullets with relatively light ranged weapons and I'd imagine it'd be the same case for Fighmaster. It'd be focused on melee fighting but if you want to use guns and techs some you'd be able to do so at a comfortable level. This is all me presuming that ST will have the master classes meshing together multiple expert types so that one class can fill several roles rather than the current 1 class fills one role of gameplay system expert types are locked into.



I can't see them using anything more than a handgun. Fighmasters, that is. >_>

[Kylie]

Lots of people have different ideas on how they're going to do this, but I think we can all agree that if they do give expert classes LV50 stuff too, they need to besure to keep everything balanced.

[Dein]

On 2008-02-01 11:33, SATatami wrote:
I can't see them using anything more than a handgun. Fighmasters, that is. >_>



Like I said I'm presuming Fighmaster would need at least lvl 20 fF and FI to unlock, and the other master classes would be the same so that's why I'm saying I see it with more than just a handgun. The more variety in the master classes though the better they'll be in my opinion.

[SATatami]

On 2008-02-01 11:38, Dein wrote:

On 2008-02-01 11:33, SATatami wrote:
I can't see them using anything more than a handgun. Fighmasters, that is. >_>



Like I said I'm presuming Fighmaster would need at least lvl 20 fF and FI to unlock, and the other master classes would be the same so that's why I'm saying I see it with more than just a handgun. The more variety in the master classes though the better they'll be in my opinion.



Well, FOs can use mechguns, but you don't see FTs usin' em. >_>

[Pillan]

Well, let’s not forget what happened the last time the simultaneously added new classes and increased the photon art caps: Acrofighter and Acrotecher were obviously the only ones to get PAs over 30 as a result of it.

Point being the addition of the master classes at the same time as the addition of the 50 cap doesn’t say anything about whose PA limits are increased, how they will be increased, nor where the master classes will be relative to the others. That of course makes any theory about any of the classes which doesn’t involve them gaining PA restrictions above 50 or reducing the current restrictions is valid.

[desturel]

On 2008-01-31 18:05, Leahcim wrote:
FM 50/0/0/0
FG 0/50/0/0
MF 0/0/50/50


Not this crap again. Didn't you learn your lesson after the last debacle (http://pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=167530&forum=20)?

Let's recap:

"...there is no way that Sonic team will make a new gimp class that cannot do story missions. Why is that so hard for you to understand. If you cannot complete the story missions, then the class is useless. Your "masterclasses" cannot even complete the game.

Even worse, you don't give some of these new master classes handgun and saber. Maybe you don't understand this, but EVERY class has handgun and saber. Because of this EVERY class will have at least level 1 striking and level 1 bullets. There has never been a class that has had less than level 10 bullets. Even fortetechers received level 10 striking as of the expansion. Sonic Team is not going to make a new class that will not have at least level 10 striking and level 10 bullets. (http://pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=167530&forum=20&start=60&75#70)"

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: desturel on 2008-02-01 12:39 ]</font>

[Leahcim]

You know what's right beside that story mission Counter? The class selection counter.

Use it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Leahcim on 2008-02-01 12:46 ]</font>

[Nai_Calus]

People just look at numbers and don't realise that three uber classes that can be adapted to just about any playstyle you want is better than nine middling classes that oftentimes *don't* do what you want. I want something with the range options of FI but with S-rank spears. I want to be reasonably good with melee, including stuff like spears, AND not be a total failure at support.

The tired old PSO example: FOmar had excellent melee capabilities and was just as competent at support as any other Force for actual tech levels, along with a range bonus to Shifta/Deband. Other forces outshone his support by having higher MST for doing higher heals with resta or by having range bonuses to Resta/Anti or the whole set of support. FOmar could also use the FO-usable rifles. Keeping him in check was his low ATA and relatively low ATP - He had the highest ATP of the Forces, but less than even the lowest of the Rangers. His Shifta and Zalure compensated for the ATP, but the low ATA kept the damage in check via him missing quite a bit.

PSU has absolutely nothing to fill the role of a FOmar. Maybe if FOmar had only been able to use sabers and daggers, but FOmars had Partisans and Double Sabers they could use, high-end ones at that, and their melee was quite good and varied. AT with it's limited melee doesn't match this. WT matches the reasonable, varied melee part, but has miserable support. PSU thus offers me absolutely nothing I want to play as far as being a support Force goes - FOmar in PSO was by far my favourite class, precisely for what he could *do*. I love support but find myself barely ever even wanting to do it in PSU because what I *really* want to do just isn't there. Doesn't exist. Can it be done? Well, yeah, PSO did it just fine. Is it done? No.

Make Masterforce a combo of the best of, say, WT, GT, FT and AT, make it annoying to get there by requiring 20 in all of those and in FO as well, maybe even a level requirement - And anyone playing it can carve out whatever the hell class they want to play from it. Someone can run around with a palette full of Psycho Wands using L50 attack techs and bows, I can run around with L50 support and attack things with melee that includes weapons I enjoy using, someone else can do something completely different. Would it obselete the expert classes? Hell yes, just like expert classes obselete basic classes, but nobody ever bitches that HU/FO/RA are useless except as stepping stones.

The point behind the idea of 'broken' master classes would be that you could still play a GT or a FF or whatever, just not under that name, and you'd have more options as well. XP

My speculation would be that just the master classes would get 50 caps, as far as those go.

If they're the ubers I want, it'd be part of the reward for meeting the requirements. If they're the useless farces half the board wants, it'd be the ONLY reason to play them at all - If AT and MF both have 50 support, but MF has no bullets, no skills, just damage techs... Guess which one most people are going to go to? AT, of course, especially if they went with the 'bump everything up by one tier' thing and AT suddenly got L40 attack techs. Hell, most FTs would stay FTs for the bows and the L50 attack since just about every FT I've ever encountered didn't give a shit about support. :P

Same thing elsewhere. If FF and FM both get L50 melee, but FM doesn't even get Handguns... Who the hell is going to play FM except complete morons? If FI and FM both have 50 with that kind of FM... OK, 90% of the game's FIs would disappear overnight if FM had Double Sabers, because most FIs are idiot morons with a palette full of Double Sabers and one twin handgun, if that. XP

So it seems to me more like something only the masters would get.

Though, there is one other way of doing it, that involves my dream of uber-classes - The Uber-classes with all their variety and choice do *not* get L50 PAs, and only the expert classes get 50s. Which gives you the choice of being limited in what you can use to the original options of the experts, but get L50 skills, or of using pretty much whatever you want but having the L40 caps still. That would probably come the closest to making everyone happy. :P Those who want variety would get it and those who are OK with the current classes would also have a perk for staying with them.

WT might even get me to play it for a day or two if it had L30 support. Still be the worst of anyone who has it, but it'd at least be useful and not needing to be refreshed so damned often, and better than a freaking 'ride. :P

Leahcim: Yes, the class selection counter is in fact right there. But what of things like, say, HSM that are far away from the counter? And even so, if you have to abandon the class to be able to do some things, it has serious problems.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ian-KunX on 2008-02-01 13:19 ]</font>

[SATatami]

On 2008-02-01 13:17, Ian-KunX wrote:

Same thing elsewhere. If FF and FM both get L50 melee, but FM doesn't even get Handguns... Who the hell is going to play FM except complete morons?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ian-KunX on 2008-02-01 13:19 ]</font>


My experiences show that slicer's regular attack can do almost anything a handgun can do, plus some.

[Pillan]

On 2008-02-01 13:17, Ian-KunX wrote:
People just look at numbers and don't realise that three uber classes that can be adapted to just about any playstyle you want is better than nine middling classes that oftentimes *don't* do what you want. I want something with the range options of FI but with S-rank spears. I want to be reasonably good with melee, including stuff like spears, AND not be a total failure at support.


You make it sound like anything anyone says in any thread on the topic of class updates will change what Sonic Team does to the classes. If I get everyone to agree with me in thinking that the Master classes will be balanced and will be more like the expert versions of the basic classes, it doesn’t mean that they won’t later release them as an upgrade class that someone else predicted. Nor does it mean that they will appear as everyone’s ideal class.

Honestly, if I were to predict what the master classes would look like as upgrades, I’d expect them to be more like the combination of the 3 initial variations of each of their advanced versions. So Fighmaster would look something like 50/30/30/20 with all weapons and rank caps split between FG, WT, and fF, Gunmaster would look something like 40/50/20/30 with all weapon and rank caps split between FG, GT, and fG, and Masterforce would look something like 30/40/50/40 with all weapon and rank caps split between GT, WT, and fT. And, of course, taking their base stats from the lower with the highest of each. That would be the only way to release the classes without alienating part of the player base.

I wouldn’t hold it past Sonic Team to do that, but it’s fairly difficult to make predictions with the given data. I’d say it’s 50/50.

[physic]

though this is supposed to be a pa discussion, it has spilled into a masterclass debate, personally, i think that if masterclasses were supposed to be better than the expert, theyd have to be as many as them as there are basic classes, otherwise the middle classes serve no purpose.
this could in fact be the case, but it seems unlikely. Most likely they will be different, that said, they will thus probably have similar caps to other classes, what will be the point you say? well different weapon selection and different stats. Is it super entertaining? maybe not, but they can fill some holes.

[NPCMook]

Truthfully I wouldn't be surprised if MasterHunter, MasterRanger, and MasterForce were just the same pallettes you have access to in offline(with a few tweaks of course.. maybe, I dunno)

[Leahcim]

On 2008-02-02 03:13, NPCMook wrote:
Truthfully I wouldn't be surprised if MasterHunter, MasterRanger, and MasterForce were just the same pallettes you have access to in offline(with a few tweaks of course.. maybe, I dunno)



Uh...

I'd have to dis-agree with you there >_>

If they had announced Acromaster online too, then maybe I'd agree that this is a possibility. But since they hadn't, I disagree with your statement.

[SATatami]

On 2008-02-03 18:53, Leahcim wrote:

On 2008-02-02 03:13, NPCMook wrote:
Truthfully I wouldn't be surprised if MasterHunter, MasterRanger, and MasterForce were just the same pallettes you have access to in offline(with a few tweaks of course.. maybe, I dunno)



Uh...

I'd have to dis-agree with you there >_>

If they had announced Acromaster online too, then maybe I'd agree that this is a possibility. But since they hadn't, I disagree with your statement.



I disagree with your disagreeing of his disagreement.

[Leahcim]

Cool