Shotgun bullets

[Randomness]

Well, just after snagging my pretty new shotgun, I hit 31 on Barada Riga, so I'm looking to pick up another element for my shotguns.

I lack, however, any particular leanings in that area. I don't have any dark or ground bullets, but dark is situational and silence... stinks. I already have lightning in my grenades and twin handguns. Light is, like dark, situational, its useful almost only in LL and HIVE.

So, the question then, is, what element do I pick. Or, do I save the frags for one of the two non-elemental bullets?

[Anduril]

Silence doesn't stink on a shotgun, especially if you're playing on Neudaiz. My Ground shotgun bullets were my best PA when I was running White Beast.

[Genoa]

I really like the light shotgun. Confuse helps a little bit by distracting enemies at a distance, giving you more time to hit multiple enemies before they reach you. And in HIVE missions it's a made of epic win.
Crossbow has better SE sticking, so having Light Crossbow wouldn't be as smart ... so you could have a Dark Crossbow for infection (and white beast'in I suppose...) and a Light Shotty for screwin enemies up and dominating HIVE.

[EngelBlut]

my shotgun skills are
dark lv40
ice lv33
light lv11
ground lv11
fire lv11
lightning lv11

i love the shotgun it my fav weapons it has the highest damage ratio in the game

[Miyoko]

Every bullet is good for shotgun. You can't go wrong with anything.

Pick whatever element would suit you best for the types of enemies you fight most often. >_>

[mvffin]

short answer, get all of them. leveling IS a pain, but Shock, Silence, and Confuse are probably the most useful status effects, in that order. Burn and Virus is good when soloing, but only to cut time. in parties, everything dies fast, so i'd rather hamper my enemy to help the party.

[batokage]

while you can't really rely on the frag PA's for elemental exploitation, they do carry really useful SE's. When i say really helpful, i mean that you will find them helpful if you're a team player. Barada Maga eats up pp very quickly in comparison to the other bullets, but zoldeel is very useful for you and other party members who hate seeing 0's.

And charm is very useful if you can either
a. take a hit
or b. run like hell
Using it to make the monsters chase you or focus on you can be very beneficial to any team mates because it keeps the monsters off their backs (meaning less PA interruptions for melee ppl and less focus on attacking teching players). Never mind the fact that you could get the crap kicked outta you. That'll only happen if you don't know what you're doing.

As for elements, I'd go with
Barada Diga
Barada Riga
Barada Yoga
Barada Inga
In that order. Confuse can be a very useful SE especially when used on large groups of monsters (dam Go Bajilla and Vandha Merha>.>). I personally don't go for the DoT SE's with my shotgun. Thenagain, I'm a PT who lets his traps handle those kinda SE's...

[EngelBlut]

what about freeze???

[LoneDespo]

In my opinion, shotguns aren't really all that great for SE unless you're pumping all 5 projectiles into a single target. I consider shotguns to be a very versatile pure damage weapon, and would suggest Megiga and Banga.(For the primary TECH mobs of concern that shotguns are effective on; Komazlis and Olgohmons) Inga is also a pretty decent choice if you don't have it on an Xbow already.

Grav bullets are almost completely useless as Confuse is much more useful, including in non-TECH situations. For the sake of quick and debilitating SE application, I'd suggest you use it on a crossbow instead of a shotgun, as you're quite vulnerable to offscreen TECHs during the pump action. (Think Vandas, Deljabans, and Gaozorans for which you especially want free movement.)

These are just my observations based on my own playing style. It's really up to what you think is the most efficient way to get things done.

[Genoa]

Shotgun leans more towards raw power rather than Status Effects.
The Crossbow however, which acts somewhat like a smaller, faster version of the Shotgun, is many times more effective for Status Effects.
Rifles of course are great for sticking that wonderful lvl.4 Status Effect as well.

If you're Protranser however, as stated, that's what your traps are for. You also have a Bow for your high lvl. SE.
Guntecher... you have your Bow as well <_> Machinegun isn't bad at SE either

[RACast_Raiden]

All of them...
that way you can do more damage....kinda

[Miyuki]

Still lower levels for most of my shotgun bullets but I like lightning - first one I got and it's my highest level (26). Fire isn't bad either. Ignored ground shots but progressing with Xbow ground. I agree silence is definately useful - great on those Neudaiz temple guards, maybe works on vandas?

[Tetsaru]

Depends on what class you play, and how often you use shotguns, imo. Since I play FG mostly, I just use every element and switch out depending on what enemies I'm facing. However, if you play PT, for example, you may want more room for melee PA's, depending on your playing style. In such a case, just pick whichever element or SE you think would be most useful to you.

Imo though, you can never go wrong with ice bullets, but since you've already leveled ice... maybe ground. I've found it useful on enemies like the mages in Grove of Fanatics and the blue CAST guys in Desert Goliath that tend to spam healing spells a lot. Or, if you prefer lots of damage, you might go with fire or dark for burn or virus, respectively.

[darthplagis]

personally dark and light are ALL you need on a shotty, the dark infects while the light is ace on the hive AND it confuses esp useful on mage monsters as they tend not to hit u with techs when confusd.

but im a big shotty fan and also the kikami and twin handgun rule my pallet as a GT. basically cover the techs you are lacking in one area with the other weapon and you will be fine.

[DAMASCUS]

Ice is always great. Fire is good except against robots. Lightning is silly because shock won't protect you and enemies that can be shocked with melee attacks don't last long anyway. Ground for silence is good but even better on a mechgun when you hone in on one enemy once you have neutralized the others and then slash away without worrying about getting a Diga/Barta in each ear; only bad thing is it seems like the shielded enemies need to be hit with lv2 SE. Light oddly enough I would leave for the Laser Cannon because once they clump together from confusion the cannon rips through them nicely. Last but not least, Dark can infect anything, most importantly those enemies that are strong against bullets including robots and it multiplies your effective attack nicely; even if mobs are dying quickly one tick on each enemy is still at least twice the damage of a normal hit.

So my take is: ICE > DARK > GROUND > FIRE > LIGHT > ELECTRIC

[Ithildin]

Shotgun bullets don't take that long to level and they are much much better under AoI. Try and get all your bullets levelled, I really think it's worth it.

[amtalx]

If you are a fG, you will need all of them.

Also, don't discount Lightning. The term "Shockgun" has been coined for a reason. Its very helpful when soloing.

[physic]

well keep in mind that fire ground and dark have a higher multiplier, which may make them do more dmg than the others even cross element, afterall 27% of just shotgun dmg may not be more than 5 or 10 % of both shotgun dmg and your atp.

[Miyoko]

A fire shotty isn't going to out damage a lightning shotty against an earth enemy. >__>;; You'd be surprised how much the elemental modifier on shotguns add to your overall damage.

[Ithildin]

I agree with Miyoko. I was doing some S runs of Lghtening Beasts yesterday, levelling my twin handgun bullets at the same time, then I switched to my Desta and I was doing at least 150 more dmg per shot. Plus the fact that if you get up close and personal you are doing x5 the dmg (if you have your element to at least level 30).

[amtalx]

On 2008-02-13 06:04, Miyoko wrote:
You'd be surprised how much the elemental modifier on shotguns add to your overall damage.



I think around 23%. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif When you hit for 3000+ every shot, that really starts to add up.

[Dragwind]

I personally find every shotgun ele bullet to be useful. Its not like they take long to raise either compared to other bullets. If you have the time to invest, I'd say raise them all to 21 at least. If not, choose 2 elements and stick with those. Either lightning/ice or fire/dark.

[Ami~]

I'm a huuuuuuuge shotgun/crossbow fan when I play on my fortegunner. Though if I could i'd probably level them all, but I only have so much room for new bullets >.>

So I focused on Fire and Dark shotgun bullets. I personally do a good amount of damage with them in a lot of missions I do, especially with my dark bullets~ I love inflicting virus XD and i'll occasionally use my fire bullets for burn too. I'd definetly say to level up Dark for your next bullet. totally worth it~

[panzer_unit]

You'll want all shotgun skills at 31+ eventually because they do some really serious damage compared even to some PA hits... but I'd work my way through the most defensive bullets first because they're also very effective for spreading safety SE's. Ice was a good choice since it stops everything the enemies do and stop it immediately. I'd pick one of Shock or Silence next, Silence is a really good SE against gohmon and ice vandas... even normal vandas since silence sticks faster and longer than freeze.

[Kion]

for elements i split them between crossbow and shotty depending on SE:

light, fire and ground for crossbow.
Confuse is a pretty flaky SE as enemies attack what's closest, which is generally you with shotgun, so it's better to have the higher SE and mobility.
SE3 fire sticks on larger enemies, so having three bullets (as opposed to handgun) and quick movement is a must.
And silence, because neudaiz gaurds are freaking annoying. They don't seem to want to stay still. Hit them with three bullets to get them to quit spamming freaking techs and then follow them around.

dark, lightning, and freeze for shotty.
generally all shotgun bullets have the same use; use them on small enemies, or pump 5 bullets into one enemy for massive damage. for wreaking havoc in damage get all elements, but for small enemies these are the musts.
dark- because virus makes enemeis look like they're little grapes running around. dark is also a good generic neutral element as dark enemies are pretty much exclusively on GC.
lightning- is amazing. shock hits fast hard and lasts a while. enemies will jump around but won't lay a finger (or claw..) on you. this bullet owns pretty hard on moatoob.
freeze- needs no explanation. obviously insanely useful.

[thebummers]

Get them all. Level 31+ shotty bullets are finally getting recognized for their power. You can "semi-lock" a crowd of 5 mobs or pump a likely SE and 5 times the pain into one mob. Win, frickin' win.

[Dragwind]

On 2008-02-13 07:29, thebummers wrote:
Get them all. Level 31+ shotty bullets are finally getting recognized for their power. You can "semi-lock" a crowd of 5 mobs or pump a likely SE and 5 times the pain into one mob. Win, frickin' win.



Yes, its pretty nice seeing my Fortegunner do 650-700 each bullet on my 31 bullets. I use HPC with my shotguns btw.

That's roughly 3200~ damage when all unleashed on a single target etc etc.

[Ami~]

As a newman with buffs and HPC I do about 450-500, sometimes 600 on criticals. though I don't think i'll ever par with a cast, but 2500+ damage is still pretty decent in my opinion. shotguns are awesome http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[stukasa]

Lightning. Shotguns are not a mobile weapon so you need all the protection you can get. Shock and freeze are great and highly effective at keeping you safe from things like charging Ollakas. I've tried non-defensive elements and I get knocked around much more than when I'm using shock or freeze.

About silence: I much prefer silence on a mobile weapon like twin handguns or crossbows because everything you need to silence is usually dangerous and you need to stay on your toes to avoid their attacks. You can't do that nearly as well with a shotgun.

About virus: Enemies I use shotguns on are usually not enemies that need to be DoT'ed. Small and medium enemies die fast enough that DoT is unnecessary. The only enemies that really need DoT are large monsters and I rarely use shotguns on them anyway.

[Satter]

On 2008-02-13 07:57, Dragwind wrote:

On 2008-02-13 07:29, thebummers wrote:
Get them all. Level 31+ shotty bullets are finally getting recognized for their power. You can "semi-lock" a crowd of 5 mobs or pump a likely SE and 5 times the pain into one mob. Win, frickin' win.



Yes, its pretty nice seeing my Fortegunner do 650-700 each bullet on my 31 bullets. I use HPC with my shotguns btw.

That's roughly 3200~ damage when all unleashed on a single target etc etc.



What does HPC stand for?

I'm a level 15 FG and the damage I do is pretty low. If I puff, equip a Knight / Solid, and use my strongest bullet (Freeze lvl 27) on my Shigga Desta (6/6) I still only get about 430 hits of damage on each target.

[amtalx]

HPC = Hard / Power Charge

It adds ATP at the cost of draining your weapons faster.

[IsoDonk]

I really rate Barada Maga, the EVP Debuff bullet. Not amazing for damage but useful for Protransers - grab a high-PP shotgun, fire off a couple of shots and then bring something else out and start battering stuff with big sticks and that.

[Ithildin]

^ Again, I agree... I use Maga quite a bit. As soon as this Ult PA became available I levelled it. Glad its now at 32 ^_^

[pikachief]

On 2008-02-13 07:57, Dragwind wrote:

On 2008-02-13 07:29, thebummers wrote:
Get them all. Level 31+ shotty bullets are finally getting recognized for their power. You can "semi-lock" a crowd of 5 mobs or pump a likely SE and 5 times the pain into one mob. Win, frickin' win.



Yes, its pretty nice seeing my Fortegunner do 650-700 each bullet on my 31 bullets. I use HPC with my shotguns btw.

That's roughly 3200~ damage when all unleashed on a single target etc etc.



i was about so say WTF my shigga baret 6/6 didnt even do taht much! lol

My shigga abret with a SPS on my FG lvl 120/15 was doing about 450's.... y am i doing so little compared to u? (my shotguns was lvl 33 ice shot on koltovas)

[panzer_unit]

Some people always count lv2~3 buffs ('rides and/or techers) when talking about damage.

My 120/15 Cast PT usually does 550 with buffs and proper elements on lv32 bullets, he's only Hard/Night for arm unit... might hit 600 if I had Cati/Power. That kind of damage would put my Spinning Strike PA out of business, JA's and all, unless I got a 50% saber.

[EngelBlut]

On 2008-02-13 10:29, pikachief wrote:

On 2008-02-13 07:57, Dragwind wrote:

On 2008-02-13 07:29, thebummers wrote:
Get them all. Level 31+ shotty bullets are finally getting recognized for their power. You can "semi-lock" a crowd of 5 mobs or pump a likely SE and 5 times the pain into one mob. Win, frickin' win.



Yes, its pretty nice seeing my Fortegunner do 650-700 each bullet on my 31 bullets. I use HPC with my shotguns btw.

That's roughly 3200~ damage when all unleashed on a single target etc etc.



i was about so say WTF my shigga baret 6/6 didnt even do taht much! lol

My shigga abret with a SPS on my FG lvl 120/15 was doing about 450's.... y am i doing so little compared to u? (my shotguns was lvl 33 ice shot on koltovas)

im doing about 500s with my lvl 39 dark... and thats on the robots.. with a 2/4 desta.. it used to be 2/10 long story

[amtalx]

On 2008-02-13 10:29, pikachief wrote:

On 2008-02-13 07:57, Dragwind wrote:

On 2008-02-13 07:29, thebummers wrote:
Get them all. Level 31+ shotty bullets are finally getting recognized for their power. You can "semi-lock" a crowd of 5 mobs or pump a likely SE and 5 times the pain into one mob. Win, frickin' win.



Yes, its pretty nice seeing my Fortegunner do 650-700 each bullet on my 31 bullets. I use HPC with my shotguns btw.

That's roughly 3200~ damage when all unleashed on a single target etc etc.



i was about so say WTF my shigga baret 6/6 didnt even do taht much! lol

My shigga abret with a SPS on my FG lvl 120/15 was doing about 450's.... y am i doing so little compared to u? (my shotguns was lvl 33 ice shot on koltovas)



Are you a Newman? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I think people may be using different levels of Shifta and/or debuffed enemies. With a 4/10 Shigga Desta, SPS, and Lvl 31+ Shifta my basement is 700 and ceiling around ~710 on enemies that have NOT been debuffed. 120/15 Male Cast fG, Lvl 32 Barada Riga on some poor Koltova (they don't last very long). Can't think of any other variables right now.

[Akaimizu]

Probably that big factor. A lack of the Solid Power thing. A lot of people talk of that, but it's still a bit tough to obtain; but I do see the pattern that pretty much any talk of suddenly large spikes of damage come from those who happen to have the elusive high power units. The pattern is uncanny, actually. And almost all of them say it doesn't make *that* much of a difference, yet it seems to be only them that claim the numbers, wierd.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-13 11:04 ]</font>

[thebummers]

My PT 15 level 120 is a male CAST with an SPS unit. Destas ground to 4 and one Baret ground to 2. The SPS and CAST Atp might be showing a numbers difference. I was also talking about using a Megistaride/Agtaride or being "self-buffed." All my shotty PAs are at least 36. I do over 600s easily on non-bullet resistant mobs. Usually more around 620ish.

[panzer_unit]

Your Protranser hits okay with SPS?

[Randomness]

On 2008-02-13 11:57, panzer_unit wrote:
Your Protranser hits okay with SPS?



Past level 6, PT stats dont suck, at 10, its getting up there in strength, I'd imagine it has at least the ATA mod of a GT by 15. And hes a CAST, so his base ACC stat is high.

Looks like I'm grabbing dark then.

[JarinKail]

Fire bullets are my favorite.

[Gunslinger-08]

I started out with the fire bullet myself. *mmmm.... BBQ* It's also the only bullet I have at lvl 40 now.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gunslinger-08 on 2008-02-13 12:55 ]</font>

[Jife_Jifremok]

What sort of buckshot you wanna spew out depends on what you're lookin' for, not to mention yer class and playstyle. You want pure damage, you're pretty much fucked if ya just want one or two bullets...that is, unless DoTs actually do decent enough damage to compensate for elemental deficiencies. I'm not sure on that.

Anyway, I find Barada Diga particularly useful since I'm on Neudaiz a lot. Annoying techers and sleep-users are rendered harmless by silence when used alongside a teammate that has plenty of shock.

I find Barada Inga useful for the reason stated above, but since nearly everything uses physical attacks it's generally much more useful than diga as far as status is concerned.

Barada Riga is something I'd only use for raw damage on fire enemies. Freeze is nice, but in a team the ice shatters just as easily as the bones of your enemies so it's not all that great.

Yoga, like banga and megiga, are just for raw damage on opposite-element enemies. Confuse isn't great since enemies attack you anyway. No particularly useful statuses here.

Maga, I don't find very useful but I do have it leveled up to 31, just in case...

Chamga is the only shotgun I don't have at 31. Lacks that special double-hit ability that makes other shotgun bullets so damaging at times. Useful for very special situations, and can make for some decent fun. Now if only they'd bring back Recoboxes so I could have my very own companion cube... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

And, since this is a shotgun topic, I have to say this. What's with all the people calling them shotties? Making them sound all weak. Trying to be cute or something? Save that for kitties..or something that really is weak like rifeys. They're shotguns. They're strong guns that leave gaping holes in anything big enough to not be completely obliterated by them, so treat them with the gusto they deserve! Say it with some oomph, people! Shotgun!

Shotgun!
http://www.neogeoforlife.com/images/game_review_pics/metal_slug_2/shotgun.png

Shotgun!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jife_Jifremok on 2008-02-13 13:25 ]</font>

[pikachief]

On 2008-02-13 10:57, amtalx wrote:

On 2008-02-13 10:29, pikachief wrote:

On 2008-02-13 07:57, Dragwind wrote:

On 2008-02-13 07:29, thebummers wrote:
Get them all. Level 31+ shotty bullets are finally getting recognized for their power. You can "semi-lock" a crowd of 5 mobs or pump a likely SE and 5 times the pain into one mob. Win, frickin' win.



Yes, its pretty nice seeing my Fortegunner do 650-700 each bullet on my 31 bullets. I use HPC with my shotguns btw.

That's roughly 3200~ damage when all unleashed on a single target etc etc.



i was about so say WTF my shigga baret 6/6 didnt even do taht much! lol

My shigga abret with a SPS on my FG lvl 120/15 was doing about 450's.... y am i doing so little compared to u? (my shotguns was lvl 33 ice shot on koltovas)



Are you a Newman? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I think people may be using different levels of Shifta and/or debuffed enemies. With a 4/10 Shigga Desta, SPS, and Lvl 31+ Shifta my basement is 700 and ceiling around ~710 on enemies that have NOT been debuffed. 120/15 Male Cast fG, Lvl 32 Barada Riga on some poor Koltova (they don't last very long). Can't think of any other variables right now.



im a male cast and i have lvl 30 buffs...

[Zorak000]

random statement on confuse:

confuse + Vanda merha/orga + distance between you and mob of confused vandas = WIN

ther damfoie I can attest to dishing out sweet lv5 burns. the only way to burn something for lv5 is with confused vandas.

[Akaimizu]

I just want to say. Anytime somebody uses "Metal Slug" pictures and references, to illustrate a point, I can't resist to have a smile on my face.

And besides, "pet" names normally don't change a thing about how strong they are. Tynselle will always consider Twin handguns the best things since sliced bread, doesn't stop the character from calling them "Twin Gunnies". It's to prove a point that you can have an affection for something so....killer. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-13 13:51 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-02-13 12:24, Randomness wrote:

On 2008-02-13 11:57, panzer_unit wrote:
Your Protranser hits okay with SPS?


Past level 6, PT stats dont suck, at 10, its getting up there in strength, I'd imagine it has at least the ATA mod of a GT by 15. And hes a CAST, so his base ACC stat is high.


I'm asking about SPS because I've got a 120/15 Cast PT and I don't find my accuracy all that good when gunning. I've got ATA to spare on melee but elemental grenades, bows, and shotguns are all a little sketchy.

[Satter]

What does SPS mean?

[thebummers]

SPS = Solid/Power S unit. I think my Acc is fine with it really. Not awesome but certainly good enough. I am also Fortegunner 15 so I know what you are talking about when it comes to accuracy. Shotguns aren't the perfect model of accuracy anyway. Plus I have a Beast WT also. Maybe I have just suffered with low accuracy so long my CAST PT seems like he can't miss lol.

[The2dCour]

On 2008-02-13 10:29, pikachief wrote:

On 2008-02-13 07:57, Dragwind wrote:

On 2008-02-13 07:29, thebummers wrote:
Get them all. Level 31+ shotty bullets are finally getting recognized for their power. You can "semi-lock" a crowd of 5 mobs or pump a likely SE and 5 times the pain into one mob. Win, frickin' win.



Yes, its pretty nice seeing my Fortegunner do 650-700 each bullet on my 31 bullets. I use HPC with my shotguns btw.

That's roughly 3200~ damage when all unleashed on a single target etc etc.



i was about so say WTF my shigga baret 6/6 didnt even do taht much! lol

My shigga abret with a SPS on my FG lvl 120/15 was doing about 450's.... y am i doing so little compared to u? (my shotguns was lvl 33 ice shot on koltovas)


I'm using Shigga Desta ground up to 6 with SPS... get about 620-630 without buffs. Cast 120/15 fortegunner. That's using lvl 40 dark on kermit the frogs. I'm going to guess that the % difference from 33-40 and from ice to dark makes up for a largish portion of that. Buffs shoot that up to well over 700 a bullet though, 730-740 with agitaride.

[Tita]

i'll add my vote in for a LIGHT shottie bullet.

mass confusion ftw, and works just about anywhere.

[Bman40]

what do you mean dark is situational, it's the best out of all the shots, its good against everything, and when i do hive i go with light shot.

[Ithildin]

I really don't get this "___ is the best shot" nonsense. Just level the lot. It really doesn't take that long compared to say rifle bullets.

[amtalx]

On 2008-02-13 11:03, Akaimizu wrote:
Probably that big factor. A lack of the Solid Power thing. A lot of people talk of that, but it's still a bit tough to obtain; but I do see the pattern that pretty much any talk of suddenly large spikes of damage come from those who happen to have the elusive high power units. The pattern is uncanny, actually. And almost all of them say it doesn't make *that* much of a difference, yet it seems to be only them that claim the numbers, wierd.





An SPS is critical for high Shotgun damage. I would say that an HPC or SPS is essential for heavy Shotgun users. I don't think there is any other gun that benefits more greatly (maybe Laser Cannons on a good day).

Shotguns are basically fuled by character ATP. Add that you are getting a 5x multiplier on any power unit and you start to see why the jumps are so big. Throw in multi-hitting and game over. That SPS just added about 1450 ATP.

[raikomaru40]

charm FTW, you can never go wrong w/ charming something

[Akaimizu]

On 2008-02-14 04:42, amtalx wrote:

An SPS is critical for high Shotgun damage. I would say that an HPC or SPS is essential for heavy Shotgun users. I don't think there is any other gun that benefits more greatly (maybe Laser Cannons on a good day).

Shotguns are basically fuled by character ATP. Add that you are getting a 5x multiplier on any power unit and you start to see why the jumps are so big. Throw in multi-hitting and game over. That SPS just added about 1450 ATP.



And there's the problem. I still wonder why they make such a *critical* thing for the game, so freakin' incredibly hard to get. And I've tried. Oh boy have I tried. Sometimes, I think ST pretty much unfairly balanced the game thinking every gunner was getting those. So if I want to pull damage with those who get it just by common equipment, I got to be the 'leet fortunate.

I know, people will say but your classes are super powerful, then I'd have to say, I'm waiting for people to honestly say it without HPC/SPS, instead of saying it each and every time here. You can practically make a log of that proof right from this site.

Sure, it costs others 10s of millions to be fashionable; but for you, you're true gameplay aids are that much. I just don't want this site to unfairly claim balance with somewhat unreasonable demands for someone looking for help on the subject. I guess that's why when I tend to speak on the level, I talk with on-the-level equips.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-14 05:54 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

Akai, you're being completely unrealistic by going on as if win-the-lottery level equipment is required for game, class, or character balance. That's BS on par with the whole Remedy / Psycho Wand / Diadu story for Fortetechers.

Shotgun for 450, which is just time invested in level/rank/skill is still a heck of a lot of damage.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-02-14 06:44 ]</font>

[Akaimizu]

I'm not saying that, it's BS because too many people believe it. If it wasn't such a major factor, then the opinions of too many players of this game would be a lot different. Sure, I and some others may feel different, but do they make the majority? No. The numbers of who and what people play in this game, and who they generally party with, dictate the difference between what you and I like to believe, and what you got to deal with.

And because so many people feel that way, you have to do what you gotta do.

And even with the 450, it takes a heck of a lot of time and investment to get there. It's not bad, but you got to deal with the folk who destroy them numbers when they just immediately start playing. Maybe it's just that some things come a little too easy.

Maybe I do come off a little miffed that in some ways I put a ton of sweat and tears into the ability to support and the easy-mode has often devalued the hundreds and hundreds of hours of work I put into it. It's become a *by the numbers* game in some ways.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-14 06:49 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-02-14 06:42, Akaimizu wrote:
The numbers of who and what people play in this game, and who they generally party with, dictate the difference between what you and I like to believe, and what you got to deal with.

And because so many people feel that way, you have to do what you gotta do.


Maybe the 360 servers are a really different environment... I don't get that feeling at all from the people I team up with on PS2/PC. Nobody gives me crap about not maxing out the damage I do... I'd love some dude to try so they can catch an earful about it in-game.

[Akaimizu]

I don't bother much with random parties anymore for that same aspect. I generally just run with the friends I know, that's all. And It's not something limited just by server. Just look at the official forums, and the talk that goes on, as well. That *rare hunt* and *by the numbers* talk perpetuates no matter what servers you play on. It even affects, as you know, the Japanese class popularity numbers.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-14 07:19 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

Eh, I ignore the talk and go by the numbers I see while I'm playing in-game... which aren't as good as the crazy stuff you hear about on forums. People running around spamming off-element melee attacks and half-leveled bullets, guys missing their JA timing on occasion, etc. Real life stuff.

Speaking of rare hunting, as of last night I've been passed up by every one of the 11* boss drops on GBR. Gudda Hon, Gur Asted, Ank Zazga... they've all made an appearance and went home with someone else.

[Satter]

From reading all of this I should get a HPC. I currently have a Knight / Solid. But I'm trying level up my light and ground bullets, but I really do want to dol out more damage. Especially when I play Motherbrain. Besides I really don't need to increase my accuracy since I'm a male cast. I was using a Giga / PP Bullet Save for a while. But I switch between weapons so much that I rarely run out of PP.

[EMPYREAN]

fire, ice, dark. thats all u need.

[Jife_Jifremok]

If you ask me, hunters have it the worst when it comes to maxing out their damage simply because they have to get all these different element weapons which they can't change at will, and they have to be rich/lucky enough to get them in high %s, and this is in addition to needing a power-up unit!

Gunners don't have to deal with that so much. Just get a decent unit and you're good to go. Until then, a common NPC unit is good enough methinks.

Actually...as much as I hate to do by-the-numbers shit and statwhoring, I'm gonna do a little bit of that, since I think you're not gonna really need

As a level 120 PT15 I have 1083 ATP (as a FoG15 that'd be 1140, a piddly difference of 57 ATP). I have a Solid/Knight which adds 80 ATP and 40 ATA. Shigga Damduc +10 has 111 att, Shigga Desta 0/10 has 117, Shigga Desta 1/10 has 119, and Shigga Bines +7 has 122. I'm using a level 33 Barada Yoga on enemies in Unsafe Passage S2. No buffs or debuffs.

With the Shigga Desta 1/10 (119 att) equipped I did 460-480 per shot on pannons and deljabans with Solid / Knight. Multiply only the lowest number by 5 and that's 2300. Without SK, I did 435-450 damage per shot. Lowest number multiplied by 5 and you get 2175. A mere difference of about 125...give or take 50 to 100 damage due to the actual variances in numbers (as I only took into account the LOWEST damage).
I next used Shigga Damduc +10 (111 att) and did around the same damage as with the Desta without the Solid / Knight. With the Solid / Knight, around 480-482 per shot each time---the same maximum damage as the Desta, yet for some reason I kept getting maximum damage and no minimum. With the Shigga Bines, around 460-485 with the S/K. Without it, 430-440. Strange how I keep hitting the same maximum damage with the different guns...

I'm not even gonna bother editing and polishing the above paragraph or doing any more calculations. From what I've seen, think you'll be fine without any fancy units. Just stick with a common power-up unit and don't worry too much!

As a gunner, you have GUARANTEED power. Got that? Hunters need to be lucky to get their power. Gunners only need the time and don't need the hardcore luck.

Just one more numbers comparison for good measure. I have a Svaltus Sword 0/10 equipped (791 att) with my Solid / Knight. After using only the normal attack (330 damage), a JA'd Gravity Strike first combo (2300-2400 times two for a total of minimum 4600 damage) and a JA'd second combo (2200 damage for up to two targets, for 2200-4400 depending on number of targets), and not bothering to use the third combo because it looks like shit, I can do around 6800-9000 (DON'T SAY IT) damage.) This was ONLY taking into account that two Gravity Strike combos were JA'd, and not counting the numerous 0s that I saw while trying to get these numbers. (I wasn't gonna take the time to get behind them for this! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif) In the time that it took me to pull off the first two combos of gravity Strike without JA, I was able to fire three shotgun blasts...that's 6900 GUARANTEED damage in about three seconds (if I measured time correctly) if I use shigga desta and solid / knight.

By the way, I didn't even mention the shotgun's double-hit capability. <_<

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-02-14 09:00, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
After using only the normal attack (330 damage), a JA'd Gravity Strike first combo (2300-2400 times two for a total of minimum 4600 damage) and a JA'd second combo (2200 damage for up to two targets, for 2200-4400 depending on number of targets), and not bothering to use the third combo because it looks like shit, I can do around 6800-9000 (DON'T SAY IT) damage.)

Overall I agree, shotgun's a very competitive source of damage for Protranser especially if you can double-count your shots.

Still, you can get better numbers from gravity break...
Two fast swings will JA into the first move almost as fast as the first alone
The second move is too slow and weak to JA, you can crank it out really fast if you don't wait for the critical.
JA the third move because it's damaging as hell. I find the timing pretty picky though, since I don't often go past the first move of the PA and PP burns fast if you're spamming it just for practice.

- against single targets -

Two fast swings will JA into the first move almost as fast as the first alone
Rinse, repeat.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-02-14 10:23 ]</font>

[Akaimizu]

Right now, my laser cannon bullet was the first time I surpassed around the 3000 mark for three shots of combined damage for all my weapons in the 31+ bullet variety. While a starting fighter I used, or acrotecher got that for just the second PA portion alone of a whip special during day one of use. Clearly, I have some time to see 6000 numbers within a short time. You don't need that much luck as a fighter. Capable weapons drop like crazy. You don't need the über elite weapons to post that kind of damage. My fighter play never required them.

[amtalx]

On 2008-02-14 09:00, Jife_Jifremok wrote:

As a gunner, you have GUARANTEED power. Got that? Hunters need to be lucky to get their power. Gunners only need the time and don't need the hardcore luck.



The amount of time I've spent leveling my Rifle bullets is less than the TOTAL amout of time some other people have spent on their characters altogether, yet they out-damage me. That's to be expected because fighters are supposed to do lots of damage, but I have zero sympathy for fighters.

[Akaimizu]

I have zero sympathy for fighters because I also played as one. The difference in ease is plain night and day. Takes less than a week to show forth what another does in and entire year of play. Of course, this might change a bit when mobs have enough health and toughness that fighter damage doesn't totally remove the need for SEs to land.

[Jife_Jifremok]

Well, my Gravity Break is level 25 and since I'm a PT, it won't go past 30. I dunno just how much difference that makes. Nevermind that my sword is only 10% light compared to the higher % that my barada yoga has.

Still, Gravity Break is quite interruptable by the enemy, requires that horribly-animated third attack to do insane damage, requires NOT GETTING INTERRUPTED to even get to that stupid jerky jump attack, and in the time it takes to get into the full combo, JA or not, I can already have done several shotgun blasts to the face and get away with it since I can easily dodge between shots or simply keep on shooting since it's only my pumping animation that gets interrupted if I get hit (so there's little use in dodging). And that 10% light will always be 10% light unless I get a different element and/or higher %. Wielding different-element swords is a sacrifice to your looks, wielding high-% swords is a sacrifice to overall versatility unless you can get an assortment of high % weapons (which is still a big sacrifice to aesthetics considering that most weapons look like shit without being certain elements), and competent damage for the full combo is offset by how fucking stupid you look with that third combo of Gravity Break and the possibility of getting interrupted!

[Akaimizu]

I get interrupted like anybody else. It's not like I can be far away enough when using even those decent damaging weapons. I have to worry about just as much stuff flying at me all which can interrupt what I'm doing. Send me flying across the map, or (if I'm lucky) catch a blocking animation, all without stuff going off. It's not like I would be able to get that 2nd or 3rd shot off. That's the reality I deal with.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-14 12:23 ]</font>