How does everyone feel about Chikki's nerf?

[SATatami]

Yes. Cuz I'm curious, I'm making a poll.

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=170300&forum=20&36


Adjustment of Photon Art "Chikki Kyoren-jin":
First combo attack modifier is changing from 202% to 161%.
Second combo attack modifier is changing from 342% to 182%.
PP cost is being reduced.

Aaaaaaand begin!

[darkante]

Maybe people stop overusing Slicers for speed-runs now.
And use it now for fun?

Maybe i´m wrong about the fun thing, but don´t say there is not a little truth with it.

[Micki_Monday]

lol well.. I love the damage it does now.. I use it on my FF.. but it does seem right to lower it. It just pwns alot harder than all my other FF skills with S ranks >.<

So, although it totally sucks, I think it's a better balance if they nerf it. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[RACast_Raiden]

It'll always be a LAZY Fighter's best friend no matter what the nerf is...

[GuardianElite]

As a AF it doesnt effect me because, I can dish out alot of dmg with a saber and a dagger.

[Leahcim]

Sega came through =D

[GuardianElite]

On 2008-02-20 02:25, Leahcim wrote:
Sega came through =D



Now you can quit whining with Acromaster being overpowered...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: GuardianElite on 2008-02-20 02:30 ]</font>

[Leahcim]

Acromaster doesn't exist =D

[mvffin]

until they nerf the other slicer PA, i'll still use slicers.

[GuardianElite]

On 2008-02-20 02:33, Leahcim wrote:
Acromaster doesn't exist =D



You can keep telling yourself that if that keeps you happy...It does exist and you saying it doesnt change the fact it does..

[Leahcim]

The other slicer PA is fine as is.

[Leahcim]

On 2008-02-20 02:35, GuardianElite wrote:

On 2008-02-20 02:33, Leahcim wrote:
Acromaster doesn't exist =D



You can keep telling yourself that if that keeps you happy...It does exist and you saying it doesnt change the fact it does..



Lol, if I needed something involving a game like that to make me happy. That would be a crappy life.

Good thing that sort of person ins't me eh? =D

[Sylpheed]

wheres the: "SEGA need to stop listening to a small minority of whining little bitches" option?

[Leahcim]

lol, it was the majority of the JP sever I heard.

So you sir are the small minority of yatta yatta

[GuardianElite]

On 2008-02-20 02:36, Leahcim wrote:

On 2008-02-20 02:35, GuardianElite wrote:

On 2008-02-20 02:33, Leahcim wrote:
Acromaster doesn't exist =D



You can keep telling yourself that if that keeps you happy...It does exist and you saying it doesnt change the fact it does..



Lol, if I needed something involving a game like that to make me happy. That would be a crappy life.

Good thing that sort of person is me eh. =D


I agree you must have a sucky life..

[SATatami]

On 2008-02-20 02:36, Leahcim wrote:

On 2008-02-20 02:35, GuardianElite wrote:

On 2008-02-20 02:33, Leahcim wrote:
Acromaster doesn't exist =D



You can keep telling yourself that if that keeps you happy...It does exist and you saying it doesnt change the fact it does..



Lol, if I needed something involving a game like that to make me happy. That would be a crappy life.

Good thing that sort of person ins't me eh? =D



There's a topic on Acromaster already a few pages back. Take the acro discussion there. >_> Either way, it's not like you can say something's overpowered when no one knows what the hell it is yet, so both of your arguments are moot.


On 2008-02-20 02:38, Sylpheed wrote:
wheres the: "SEGA need to stop listening to a small minority of whining little bitches" option?

>_> Well... Anyone could tell you that a MMO should be about balance. Chikki is obviously unbalanced, thus the "nerf."

[Ezodagrom]

My opinion...Chikki should have been like this since the beginning http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Leahcim]

Keep crying over your Chikki, I'll keep having fun with your sister =D

[Silver_Wyrm]

On 2008-02-20 02:35, GuardianElite wrote:

On 2008-02-20 02:33, Leahcim wrote:
Acromaster doesn't exist =D



You can keep telling yourself that if that keeps you happy...It does exist and you saying it doesnt change the fact it does..


yes it does but...all we know is that it DOES, not what it does.

[GuardianElite]

On 2008-02-20 02:44, Leahcim wrote:
Keep crying over your Chikki, I'll keep having fun with your sister =D


oh you a pedo I knew it and btw hope wartechers get a nerf

[Rayokarna]

On 2008-02-20 02:46, GuardianElite wrote:

On 2008-02-20 02:44, Leahcim wrote:
Keep crying over your Chikki, I'll keep having fun with your sister =D


oh you a pedo I knew it and btw hope wartechers get a nerf


Hell No.

[GuardianElite]

On 2008-02-20 02:58, Rayokarna wrote:

On 2008-02-20 02:46, GuardianElite wrote:

On 2008-02-20 02:44, Leahcim wrote:
Keep crying over your Chikki, I'll keep having fun with your sister =D


oh you a pedo I knew it and btw hope wartechers get a nerf


Hell No.


was directed for Leahcim and his cheery fing attitude...

[Rainu]

Well, while I'm getting the PA frags for Choutou Kantsu-Jin (or whatever the other Slicer PA's called), I guess I can just sit and wait for Sega to fix Majarra too.

Oh wait.

[Darsh]

I think people who complain about a weapons damage and how it should be nerfed on a game where your fighting MONSTERS, and not other people (pvp not implemented yet) should just shut up and let people who choose to use the weapon be happy.

[Midicronica]

Don't care really. I'm just happy their lowering the PP cost.

[Ezodagrom]

On 2008-02-20 03:43, Darsh wrote:
I think people who complain about a weapons damage and how it should be nerfed on a game where your fighting MONSTERS, and not other people (pvp not implemented yet) should just shut up and let people who choose to use the weapon be happy.




2008-02-20 03:36, Ezodagrom wrote:
In a party, chikki spammers kill the monsters before other players can tag them (for exp).

enough said, I guess http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Silver_Wyrm]

On 2008-02-20 03:51, Midicronica wrote:
Don't care really. I'm just happy their lowering the PP cost.


Definately good they are lowering the PP with this, chiki will still be good for killing, just isn't going to wipe the hallways clean on the *first* combo

[amtalx]

How does everyone feel about Chikki's nerf?


LOL. That's what I think. Now rangers can go back to being the best at ranged damage...as it should have been to begin with.

[danny_o]

YES! Balance of power restored! Oh, they lower the PP cost? That's nice!

[SATatami]

On 2008-02-20 04:27, amtalx wrote:


How does everyone feel about Chikki's nerf?


LOL. That's what I think. Now rangers can go back to being the best at ranged damage...as it should have been to begin with.

From the looks of it, Chikki will STILL be stronger than guns, but it won't be anywhere near as bad. ^_^;

[CelestialBlade]

So when's Majarra getting nerfed?

[SStrikerR]

When more whiny bitches (jp servers) complain about it.

[GuardianElite]

man im starting lose my faith in this game....

[Silver_Wyrm]

On 2008-02-20 04:35, GuardianElite wrote:
man im starting lose my faith in this game....


I thought you went to bed >.>

[ilovetypemoon]

Good thing I capped this when it was overpowered. Now, I have absolutely no reason to use it.

[Neith]

Overall, I'm happy for the nerf on Chikki. It was a far, far overpowered PA (almost rifle range, wider hitbox than a Laser, infinite targets on final hit, huge ATP modifier), so I'm glad it got a nerf like this.

However, I can't help wondering that maybe the nerf on the 2nd part is a bit too severe. I'll have to play around with it once we get the nerf though to make a real decision.

What I do want to know is- why hasn't Majarra been nerfed yet? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[amtalx]

On 2008-02-20 04:28, SATatami wrote:

On 2008-02-20 04:27, amtalx wrote:


How does everyone feel about Chikki's nerf?


LOL. That's what I think. Now rangers can go back to being the best at ranged damage...as it should have been to begin with.

From the looks of it, Chikki will STILL be stronger than guns, but it won't be anywhere near as bad. ^_^;



My Lvl 40 Laser Cannon bullet says otherwise http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Damage will probably be about the same JA'ed. But since Slicers don't get SE3, and a Laser Cannon fires faster than a JA'ed Slicer combo, I'm giving the edge to rangers. Throw in that ST is increasing the firing rate on Laser Cannons (honestly, I can't imagine why but thanks anyway) and its no contest.

[CelestialBlade]

On 2008-02-20 05:55, amtalx wrote:

On 2008-02-20 04:28, SATatami wrote:

On 2008-02-20 04:27, amtalx wrote:


How does everyone feel about Chikki's nerf?


LOL. That's what I think. Now rangers can go back to being the best at ranged damage...as it should have been to begin with.

From the looks of it, Chikki will STILL be stronger than guns, but it won't be anywhere near as bad. ^_^;


My Lvl 40 Laser Cannon bullet says otherwise http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Damage will probably be about the same JA'ed. But since Slicers don't get SE3, and a Laser Cannon fires faster than a JA'ed Slicer combo, I'm giving the edge to rangers. Throw in that ST is increasing the firing rate on Laser Cannons (honestly, I can't imagine why but thanks anyway) and its no contest.


Yeah, Lasers are extreme, I'm willing to bet they will easily compete with Slicers now. The SE plays a role in that too.

[Kylie]

Sounds like this might be like renkai's nerf, where they go too far and make it too weak, but I guess it's what people want. To be honest, it doesn't bother me much since chikki has never been my favorite PA.

[Hrith]

The problem with Chikki Kyoren-jin was not its damage, it was that Fortefighters can use slicers.

They're not solving the issue until they remove slicers from FF's weapon choice.

This update is good, but it's hurting Acrofighter and Fighgunner more than anything.

[Egg99]

On 2008-02-20 07:29, Hrith wrote:
The problem with Chikki Kyoren-jin was not its damage, it was that Fortefighters can use slicers.

They're not solving the issue until they remove slicers from FF's weapon choice.

This update is good, but it's hurting Acrofighter and Fighgunner more than anything.




I'd say you're half right. I agree it's retarded that FF are allowed to use slicers in the first place (because jesus christ, Majarra spam apparently isn't enough, amiright?), but the fact that an AF or FG could do well over 2k damage per mob without even capping the PA screams for a nerf imo.

[Para]

so much for newman acrofighters lol

[Shiryuu]

Anyone who really uses it, would have capped it by now. Even with the "nerf", a JA'd 2nd hit will still do 2k+ (edit: per hit) easily. Not like they nerfed it's range or # of hits. They even made it easier to use by lowering PP consumption.

Only difference now is it's going to take 2 seconds longer to kill a group of 10 vandas. Hardcore fG's will still complain that their laser cannons still can't match a double nerfed chikki's power.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiryuu on 2008-02-20 08:18 ]</font>

[Doh42]

I already stopped using chikki in favor of choutou a while ago. Now I guess that's going to become the norm, instead of the exception.

[Shishi-O]

On 2008-02-20 01:42, Micki_Monday wrote:
lol well.. I love the damage it does now.. I use it on my FF.. but it does seem right to lower it. It just pwns alot harder than all my other FF skills with S ranks >.<

So, although it totally sucks, I think it's a better balance if they nerf it. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

no, it fucking suck, look i'm finding it hard enough playing the game anymore.

but this just kills the fun factor.

[Akaimizu]

On 2008-02-20 08:15, Shiryuu wrote:
Only difference now is it's going to take 2 seconds longer to kill a group of 10 vandas. Hardcore fG's will still complain that their laser cannons still can't match a double nerfed chikki's power.


It still means it'll take a lot longer to kill off the mobs than the current near insta-drop status they do now. It's more like 5+ seconds longer now, which is definitely a lot more time for people to actually participate. Since it won't kill standard mobs right in the combo, it actually gives the FF's words of any delay it has to re-fire (as some lame attempt to call balance on it) actual credit. It's still strong, but it no longer is the defacto PA everybody can get to max in very short time.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-20 08:35 ]</font>

[Hrith]

Well, I like the PP cost reduction, since I'm Fighgunner.

[Shishi-O]

On 2008-02-20 02:43, SATatami wrote:

On 2008-02-20 02:36, Leahcim wrote:

On 2008-02-20 02:35, GuardianElite wrote:

On 2008-02-20 02:33, Leahcim wrote:
Acromaster doesn't exist =D



You can keep telling yourself that if that keeps you happy...It does exist and you saying it doesnt change the fact it does..



Lol, if I needed something involving a game like that to make me happy. That would be a crappy life.

Good thing that sort of person ins't me eh? =D



There's a topic on Acromaster already a few pages back. Take the acro discussion there. >_> Either way, it's not like you can say something's overpowered when no one knows what the hell it is yet, so both of your arguments are moot.


On 2008-02-20 02:38, Sylpheed wrote:
wheres the: "SEGA need to stop listening to a small minority of whining little bitches" option?

>_> Well... Anyone could tell you that a MMO should be about balance. Chikki is obviously unbalanced, thus the "nerf."



hmmn, so jabroga gets nerfed too?

techers ra spells?/ rod bonus?

oh, but gunners get higher se than traps again!!?


the nerf s bs, they should'a just raised everything else like they are doing anyway.

[amtalx]

On 2008-02-20 08:31, Shishi-O wrote:

the nerf s bs, they should'a just raised everything else like they are doing anyway.



Because thats just what we need when enemies don't have enough HP to begin with...

[Shishi-O]

On 2008-02-20 08:37, amtalx wrote:

On 2008-02-20 08:31, Shishi-O wrote:

the nerf s bs, they should'a just raised everything else like they are doing anyway.



Because thats just what we need when enemies don't have enough HP to begin with...

they are doing that anyway.


Balance adjustments:

Adjustment of Photon Art "Chikki Kyoren-jin":
First combo attack modifier is changing from 202% to 161%.
Second combo attack modifier is changing from 342% to 182%.
PP cost is being reduced.

Sword adjustment:
The number of targets able to be hit by the sword's normal and skill attacks is going to be increased (I think :<).

Adjustment of Rifles:
Firing rate, damage, and accuracy of rifles will be adjusted.
Killer Shot 31's PP cost will be lowered.
Rifle bullets at 31+ will get higher level SEs (I believe)

Adjustment of Laser Cannons:
Firing rate of laser cannons will be adjusted.

Guntecher type adjustments:
Ability to equip S-Rank Wands
Attack technic cap raised from 20 to 30
TP modifiers will be raised

Photon Arts experience adjustments:
All Photon Arts will gain more experience when used.
Bullets will be adjusted in some other manner, but I'm not quite sure what they mean


ru serious?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shishi-O on 2008-02-20 08:43 ]</font>

[Shiryuu]

On 2008-02-20 08:30, Akaimizu wrote:

On 2008-02-20 08:15, Shiryuu wrote:
Only difference now is it's going to take 2 seconds longer to kill a group of 10 vandas. Hardcore fG's will still complain that their laser cannons still can't match a double nerfed chikki's power.


It still means it'll take a lot longer to kill off the mobs than the current near insta-drop status they do now. It's more like 5+ seconds longer now, which is definitely a lot more time for people to actually participate. Since it won't kill standard mobs right in the combo, it actually gives the FF's words of any delay it has to re-fire (as some lame attempt to call balance on it) actual credit. It's still strong, but it no longer is the defacto PA everybody can get to max in very short time.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-20 08:35 ]</font>

Since it'll still obliterate small monsters, which is basically most of the mobs in the game, people are still gonna be complaining in the end.

[Akaimizu]

If it takes another combo or two to do that, I'll be a lot happier. That's all. I know how long it takes a fully levelled Laser Cannon to kill a group of mobs. Even small ones when dealing with S or S2 levels. It's not very fast you know. Takes a bit of time. If the damage is now reduced to a bit above that, for the Chikki, that means loads of people who are able to not get their kills stolen. I swear, the way it is now with fighters is almost akin to "Provoke" in FFXI.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-20 08:58 ]</font>

[Indica]

I could care less about the nerf. I never used that weapon, and the majority of people I play with dont use it either.

[magenta]

horrid
chikki and slicer - its not like were able to move around while firing it, and its hard to aim as it is.. frontline fortefighters take risks using slicers and this pa, and now its being weakend

T_T

[Akaimizu]

The same risks I need as a Guntecher, in most situations in order to line up the enemies, aim it, and can't move around while firing it. And with a whole lot less HP, defense, evade, etc. If you're getting hit during the combo, then you made the same mistake as I did, if I got hit.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-20 09:09 ]</font>

[Kion]

Sounds like it should be as it should. I switched to acrofighter to try slicers, my character is at level 100, but i don't think there's any other class where you can grab an 8* weapon and PA from the NPC shop and then instantly start throwing around consistant 1,000 damage.

[Shiryuu]

On 2008-02-20 08:57, Akaimizu wrote:
If it takes another combo or two to do that, I'll be a lot happier. That's all. I know how long it takes a fully levelled Laser Cannon to kill a group of mobs. Even small ones when dealing with S or S2 levels. It's not very fast you know. Takes a bit of time. If the damage is now reduced to a bit above that, for the Chikki, that means loads of people who are able to not get their kills stolen. I swear, the way it is now with fighters is almost akin to "Provoke" in FFXI.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-20 08:58 ]</font>

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. But just in case: A fully JA'd chikki from a maxed Cast fF does roughly 2300, 4500, 4500 for the whole combo. With the "nerf", they're just going to do like 1800, 2300, 2300. Small monsters at lvl 100 have 5k HP, medium usually have 10k. It's not gonna take that long to kill them even with 2nd nerf.

The info they've posted is also not quite accurate. Chikki right now at 40 is at like 400%, not 382%. 382% is the modifier at 31. That's still quite a bit of damage to consider.

I haven't really seen a laser cannon do more than 1k damage at a time.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiryuu on 2008-02-20 09:18 ]</font>

[Akaimizu]

That sounds about right. Still, it's a lot less to complain about since to take the small ones down, it still has to be fully JA's. The true abusers don't bother JAing anything with it. They know all they have to do it tap tap the buttons and they all die.

It maybe still more powerful, in the short term, than some classe's entire arsenal of all weapons, in a single ranged attack, but it's a huge difference in the viability of actual group combat.
I can at least feel better about someone whipping that weapon out. Instead of making it such a rush to actually land a hit on almost every single monster in the game, sans large mobs and bosses.

Laser Cannons can top 1000K per mob, as a PT with fully levelled bullets and max level/class level, if also equipped with one of those elusive and way expensive (hard to find) Solid Power or Hard Power units. In fact, that's what I was comparing to when mentioning how hard the Chikki's hit for. I wasn't even calculating how much less it would be for a Gunner, or a Guntecher without one.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-20 09:27 ]</font>

[Shiryuu]

On 2008-02-20 09:19, Akaimizu wrote:
The true abusers don't bother JAing anything with it. They know all they have to do it tap tap the buttons and they all die.


Yeah. But once they learn, bawwwing will recommence. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Shishi-O]

On 2008-02-20 09:05, Akaimizu wrote:
The same risks I need as a Guntecher, in most situations in order to line up the enemies, aim it, and can't move around while firing it. And with a whole lot less HP, defense, evade, etc. If you're getting hit during the combo, then you made the same mistake as I did, if I got hit.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-20 09:09 ]</font>
...?as guntecher i stay waay behind and shoot with a rifle?

[Sekani]

This adjustment looks fine, even though I stopped using slicers a while ago since I hate being stationary through the whole combo and PA animation.

Now stop whining about Majarra.

[Shishi-O]

On 2008-02-20 09:16, Shiryuu wrote:

On 2008-02-20 08:57, Akaimizu wrote:
If it takes another combo or two to do that, I'll be a lot happier. That's all. I know how long it takes a fully levelled Laser Cannon to kill a group of mobs. Even small ones when dealing with S or S2 levels. It's not very fast you know. Takes a bit of time. If the damage is now reduced to a bit above that, for the Chikki, that means loads of people who are able to not get their kills stolen. I swear, the way it is now with fighters is almost akin to "Provoke" in FFXI.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-20 08:58 ]</font>

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. But just in case: A fully JA'd chikki from a maxed Cast fF does roughly 2300, 4500, 4500 for the whole combo. With the "nerf", they're just going to do like 1800, 2300, 2300. Small monsters at lvl 100 have 5k HP, medium usually have 10k. It's not gonna take that long to kill them even with 2nd nerf.

The info they've posted is also not quite accurate. Chikki right now at 40 is at like 400%, not 382%. 382% is the modifier at 31. That's still quite a bit of damage to consider.

I haven't really seen a laser cannon do more than 1k damage at a time.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiryuu on 2008-02-20 09:18 ]</font>
it's not even FF class wep, sure the Af now gets completely screwed?
why not just take slicers from FF?

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I'm glad with Chicken Kyoren-jin getting nerfed. I didn't like this PA because it was just so broken. Range + Power + Large amounts of targets = >.>
As an Acrofighter though, I mostly stuck to Sabers, Daggers, and Claws as my primary weapons, so I'm not too hurt by this nerf. I can solo things just fine with the 3 weapons I mentioned, I don't need Chikki to be hax.

[DEM_CIG]

I dont care if it is or not, never used it anyway...

[Powder Keg]

The only thing is really suicks for is soloing, otherwise, great.

[Shishi-O]

On 2008-02-20 09:41, Shiroryuu wrote:
I'm glad with Chicken Kyoren-jin getting nerfed. I didn't like this PA because it was just so broken. Range + Power + Large amounts of targets = >.>
As an Acrofighter though, I mostly stuck to Sabers, Daggers, and Claws as my primary weapons, so I'm not too hurt by this nerf. I can solo things just fine with the 3 weapons I mentioned, I don't need Chikki to be hax.

i could understand that if we could use s-ranx on all weps but we can't....or give us crossbows?

no? y cuz yak zagenga does 3500 per bulletx3,... i'm so pissed right now.

FF using chikki caused this i am sure, why give FF an acro wep?

no one else has double sabers.

my head hurts, i was so bored with the game a while ago them boom alluminus, i didn't have to delete my chars and make a male cast.

everyone can be played as is,....not.

now it is going back to the same make a male cast, it is better than everything bullshit that made me wanna quit before illuminus,.....this is the second nerf on chikki.

and Fg got an insane SE5, i'm only hoping that it's not the same as pre alluminus psu.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shishi-O on 2008-02-20 09:52 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shishi-O on 2008-02-20 09:59 ]</font>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Are you serious? Acrofighter is still an awesome class, we don't need more S ranks than what we have. We have S rank Sabers, Daggers, and Claws, which can still do awesome damage. Spinning Strike, Hikai Shuha-zan, and Bukuu Saien-zan are totally made of win, to name a few PAs.

[Sekani]

Acrofighter is damned near broken, the limited weapon selection is really the only thing keeping it in check.

[Mystil]

On 2008-02-20 03:00, GuardianElite wrote:

On 2008-02-20 02:58, Rayokarna wrote:

On 2008-02-20 02:46, GuardianElite wrote:

On 2008-02-20 02:44, Leahcim wrote:
Keep crying over your Chikki, I'll keep having fun with your sister =D


oh you a pedo I knew it and btw hope wartechers get a nerf


Hell No.


was directed for Leahcim and his cheery fing attitude...


Uh reguardless. There is still other WTs player. You know, the guys that are getting shafted and walking in the shadows of GTs?

[thebummers]

Totally needed to be nerfed. No one PA should have huge range and huge damage THAT big. The grenade ultimate PA does but it kicks your butt for using it. Slicers had no drawbacks. You could destory an S2 run solo with unground 9* slicers. That wasn't right.

[Shishi-O]

On 2008-02-20 10:01, Sekani wrote:
Acrofighter is damned near broken, the limited weapon selection is really the only thing keeping it in check.

why cuz it's massive atp?

[Akaimizu]

On 2008-02-20 09:34, Shishi-O wrote:

On 2008-02-20 09:05, Akaimizu wrote:
The same risks I need as a Guntecher, in most situations in order to line up the enemies, aim it, and can't move around while firing it. And with a whole lot less HP, defense, evade, etc. If you're getting hit during the combo, then you made the same mistake as I did, if I got hit.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-20 09:09 ]</font>
...?as guntecher i stay waay behind and shoot with a rifle?



I'm saying to do something very similar. Why are we suddenly switching weapons on the matter? You know rifle does nothing comparable to chikki. The purpose was to mention the closest equivalent to it, in the hands of a range. Rifles don't shoot through lines in attempts to damage an entire group of mobs.

[Shishi-O]

On 2008-02-20 10:04, thebummers wrote:
Totally needed to be nerfed. No one PA should have huge range and huge damage THAT big. The grenade ultimate PA does but it kicks your butt for using it. Slicers had no drawbacks. You could destory an S2 run solo with unground 9* slicers. That wasn't right.

it hits 1200 ja on deragnus,.....destroy?

[Shishi-O]

On 2008-02-20 10:06, Akaimizu wrote:

On 2008-02-20 09:34, Shishi-O wrote:

On 2008-02-20 09:05, Akaimizu wrote:
The same risks I need as a Guntecher, in most situations in order to line up the enemies, aim it, and can't move around while firing it. And with a whole lot less HP, defense, evade, etc. If you're getting hit during the combo, then you made the same mistake as I did, if I got hit.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-20 09:09 ]</font>
...?as guntecher i stay waay behind and shoot with a rifle?



I'm saying to do something very similar. Why are we suddenly switching weapons on the matter? You know rifle does nothing comparable to chikki. The purpose was to mention the closest equivalent to it, in the hands of a range. Rifles don't shoot through lines in attempts to damage an entire group of mobs.

well how i use rifles i hit everything with se, until all are dead. if u didn't see what i meant sorry


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shishi-O on 2008-02-20 10:09 ]</font>

[Akaimizu]

There ya go. Trying to compare to what it does on a single enemy. The ranger equivalent is a Laser cannon. And right now, the JA on Chikki still hits a lot higher than the laser ever would. And why? Because you picked the exact case in which both weapons are weak against. There really is no argument there. It doesn't prove any point than the one we're already making.

[Akaimizu]

On 2008-02-20 10:08, Shishi-O wrote:

On 2008-02-20 10:06, Akaimizu wrote:

On 2008-02-20 09:34, Shishi-O wrote:

On 2008-02-20 09:05, Akaimizu wrote:
The same risks I need as a Guntecher, in most situations in order to line up the enemies, aim it, and can't move around while firing it. And with a whole lot less HP, defense, evade, etc. If you're getting hit during the combo, then you made the same mistake as I did, if I got hit.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-20 09:09 ]</font>
...?as guntecher i stay waay behind and shoot with a rifle?



I'm saying to do something very similar. Why are we suddenly switching weapons on the matter? You know rifle does nothing comparable to chikki. The purpose was to mention the closest equivalent to it, in the hands of a range. Rifles don't shoot through lines in attempts to damage an entire group of mobs.

well how i use rifles i hit everything with se, until all are dead. if u didn't see what i meant sorry


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shishi-O on 2008-02-20 10:09 ]</font>


In that time, Chikki would've already destroyed the group before your first SE landed. Want to know how many times that happened to me? You really want to know?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-20 10:10 ]</font>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

On 2008-02-20 10:07, Shishi-O wrote:
Stuff



http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9928/20070902facepalm1np8.jpg

[thebummers]

You are comparing slicer damage in general to its damage on one neutral element boss? Where did you learn to argue? Lol. Everyone on here can see this comparison is flawed.[b]

[Shishi-O]

On 2008-02-20 10:10, Akaimizu wrote:

On 2008-02-20 10:08, Shishi-O wrote:

On 2008-02-20 10:06, Akaimizu wrote:

On 2008-02-20 09:34, Shishi-O wrote:

On 2008-02-20 09:05, Akaimizu wrote:
The same risks I need as a Guntecher, in most situations in order to line up the enemies, aim it, and can't move around while firing it. And with a whole lot less HP, defense, evade, etc. If you're getting hit during the combo, then you made the same mistake as I did, if I got hit.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-20 09:09 ]</font>
...?as guntecher i stay waay behind and shoot with a rifle?



I'm saying to do something very similar. Why are we suddenly switching weapons on the matter? You know rifle does nothing comparable to chikki. The purpose was to mention the closest equivalent to it, in the hands of a range. Rifles don't shoot through lines in attempts to damage an entire group of mobs.

well how i use rifles i hit everything with se, until all are dead. if u didn't see what i meant sorry


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shishi-O on 2008-02-20 10:09 ]</font>


In that time, Chikki would've already destroyed the group before your first SE landed. Want to know how many times that happened to me? You really want to know?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-20 10:10 ]</font>
sorry i thought u meant solo, but in groups i get my hits in, if someone wants to kill the mob and all i have to do is hit once i wouldn't complain saves me the trouble.

SE is invaluable when it comes to solo. FG now has SE5, and boma duranga, ( and i do use it with trimates on tap, so don't even go there)

[Shishi-O]

On 2008-02-20 10:09, Akaimizu wrote:
There ya go. Trying to compare to what it does on a single enemy. The ranger equivalent is a Laser cannon. And right now, the JA on Chikki still hits a lot higher than the laser ever would. And why? Because you picked the exact case in which both weapons are weak against. There really is no argument there. It doesn't prove any point than the one we're already making.

don't compare the damage whore rangers to the only slicer acro wep

as fg i don't have any probs lvling and or outdamaging / matching anyone.

there are too many versitale weps at my disposal.

lvl 40 yak zagenga/ lvl 40 boma duranga etcetera, etcetera, kills deragan in under 1 minute,...mobs the same...oh noes it cost me trimates to heal myself.

[Shishi-O]

On 2008-02-20 10:11, thebummers wrote:
You are comparing slicer damage in general to its damage on one neutral element boss? Where did you learn to argue? Lol. Everyone on here can see this comparison is flawed.[b]

is that directed to me/ if it is maybe u should try soloing with just rifles,.. i can guarantee it is a fucking rush, a preferrence

i don't know why u are using virus anyway fire ticks faster and also recatches faster.

i cook mobs and eat em for lunch.

[Gunslinger-08]

I'm glad that I'll be able to tag more stuff now.

I don't see why you guys are mad. It says the PP cost will drop too, so it looks like you'll still end up doing the same amount of damage per PP. Seriously guys, ST is just making you slow down so that there's still food at the table for other classes to eat.

[Shishi-O]

On 2008-02-20 10:28, Shishi-O wrote:

On 2008-02-20 10:11, thebummers wrote:
You are comparing slicer damage in general to its damage on one neutral element boss? Where did you learn to argue? Lol. Everyone on here can see this comparison is flawed.[b]

is that directed to me/ if it is maybe u should try soloing with just rifles,.. i can guarantee it is a fucking rush, a preferrence

i don't know why u are using virus anyway fire ticks faster and also recatches faster.

i cook mobs and eat em for lunch.

se and damage per second rifles are hard to beat period.

even against a boss where no se catches,...rifles with right bullets do more dps, hits anything from anywhere, at a steady tick

[Shishi-O]

On 2008-02-20 10:30, Gunslinger-08 wrote:
I'm glad that I'll be able to tag more stuff now.

I don't see why you guys are mad. It says the PP cost will drop too, so it looks like you'll still end up doing the same amount of damage per PP. Seriously guys, ST is just making you slow down so that there's still food at the table for other classes to eat.

well,.. i haven't seen real world damage yet,.........

but it's not fair, u don't want a legitimate gamer in ur party u ask him to leave noty this shit.

i for 1 don't know about these other people but as ff i can spam the hell out of jabroga an d pretty fast too, it that next? even using 10/10 yohmei axes it does damage in unending nightmare

[Akaimizu]

I'm not even arguing about just the DPS aspect even at that. It still doesn't change the FACT that under no circumstances, and with no level of bullet levelling and improvements, have I ever had to stay high speed and get into running matches to land a hit on a mob whenever a fortegunner was doing their best thing for the situation. Rifles, grenades, etc.

Chikki, I saw it all the time, and within weeks after the thing released. If people abuse it in a non-party like way, that's why something gets a nerf. A big purpose of having teams, and items balanced accordingly, is to fight as a team. If something promotes play that has people competing too much against each other in a PvE environment; and people start doing it all the time, the company is going to notice.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-20 10:39 ]</font>

[Shishi-O]

On 2008-02-20 10:35, Akaimizu wrote:
I'm not even arguing about just the DPS aspect even at that. It still doesn't change the FACT that under no circumstances, and with no level of bullet levelling and improvements, have I ever had to stay high speed and get into running matches to land a hit on a mob whenever a fortegunner was doing their best thing for the situation. Rifles, grenades, etc.

Chikki, I saw it all the time, and within weeks after the thing released. If people abuse it in a non-party like way, that's why something gets a nerf. A big purpose of things is to fight as a team, if something promotes play outside of that and people start doing it all the time, the company is going to notice.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-20 10:38 ]</font>
i once and only once used mindy in a party full of gunners, i didn't get to hit a thing, i didn't call for a rifle gimp, i just chose different people to play with


nothing can come from this anyway, it sux, but thank u for your time


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shishi-O on 2008-02-20 10:41 ]</font>

[ljkkjlcm9]

I think it's a good thing, because now the Ultimate PA will actually be useful. I always enjoyed the look of it more, and now it'll actually have a use. On top of that, people won't be spamming slicers anymore, and I won't mind using them as much.

however, I think the regular attack of slicers should be made like that of PSO and bounce around to hit enemies.

THE JACKEL



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ljkkjlcm9 on 2008-02-20 10:41 ]</font>

[Gunslinger-08]

On 2008-02-20 10:34, Shishi-O wrote:

On 2008-02-20 10:30, Gunslinger-08 wrote:
I'm glad that I'll be able to tag more stuff now.

I don't see why you guys are mad. It says the PP cost will drop too, so it looks like you'll still end up doing the same amount of damage per PP. Seriously guys, ST is just making you slow down so that there's still food at the table for other classes to eat.

well,.. i haven't seen real world damage yet,.........

but it's not fair, u don't want a legitimate gamer in ur party u ask him to leave noty this shit.

i for 1 don't know about these other people but as ff i can spam the hell out of jabroga an d pretty fast too, it that next? even using 10/10 yohmei axes it does damage in unending nightmare



Listen. No one has seen how the numbers are going to be affected. (edit: I'm sure you can go and calculate it, but nonetheless, you'll still be farting out HUEG NUMBARZ across the board.) I'd chill out. They're not neutering the PA. In the right hands, I'll bet it'll still kick out massive damage.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gunslinger-08 on 2008-02-20 10:48 ]</font>

[Mystil]

Chikkis days of doing 2500+ is over. Thats for sure.

[amtalx]

On 2008-02-20 10:40, Shishi-O wrote:

i once and only once used mindy in a party full of gunners, i didn't get to hit a thing, i didn't call for a rifle gimp, i just chose different people to play with



LOL. Nerfing one of the lowest DPS weapons in a gunners arsenal? I bet dollars to donuts that this gunner dream team was not using Rifles to kill everything.

[Akaimizu]

Either that or it was the old Seabed, a certain robot mission, and there were about 5 gunners all using well-levelled Killer Shot bullets. Heck, my Twin Handguns outdamaged my rifles all the time, for the same bullet levels and they weren't taking anything down faster than it took for people to get to them.

Nope, they plugged them for decent damage but still could use a hunter to put a serious hurt on them. Besides. 4 or 5 people taking your kills is normal and natural if you're being slow and the other folks aren't being considerate. They don't have to be fortegunners or forte-anything to do that. A mixed group with no over-powered weapons can do that. They still are fighting as a team, even if one person is missing out. But on the other hand, 1-person taking it all from 3-5 people is a whole different story.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-20 11:48 ]</font>

[JarinKail]

I think the nerf is expected and necessary. No reason a melee class should be doing greater ranged damage than a ranged class.

[GuardianElite]

On 2008-02-20 11:48, JarinKail wrote:
I think the nerf is expected and necessary. No reason a melee class should be doing greater ranged damage than a ranged class.



I agre but AF is a Melee/Range Class

[JarinKail]

I would argue that I feel they're more melee than ranged, but it would serve no purpose.

[Anduril]

I'm good with it, though I really never had a problem with it before; now I have justification for buying the other Slicer PA. But I'm going to spam Chikki on Story missions while I can so I can afford the other PA.

[GuardianElite]

On 2008-02-20 11:52, JarinKail wrote:
I would argue that I feel they're more melee than ranged, but it would serve no purpose.


Than I would argue GTer is more Range than techer
Wartecher More Melee than Techer. Your Point?

[amtalx]

On 2008-02-20 11:50, GuardianElite wrote:

On 2008-02-20 11:48, JarinKail wrote:
I think the nerf is expected and necessary. No reason a melee class should be doing greater ranged damage than a ranged class.



I agre but AF is a Melee/Range Class



And that is a perfect example. Hybrids should never do more damage than Forte- classes at whatever the Forte- specializes in. GT shouldn't out-tech FTs just like AF and fFs shouldn't out-gun fGs.

[Akaimizu]

As long as GTs never ever get a hold of true Two Handed Tech Sticks, they'll always trail far behind the Fortetecher. Heck, Acrotechers still trail well behind FTs with level pre-31 level techs with their wands and a large magnitude of better TP than the GTs have. ATs basically get closer to keeping up on single enemy blasts if they also attach a Shadoog, in their other hand, to make up the damage difference.

I do agree, they should probably not approach fT damage, but I think we might be pleasantly surprised that this update, while buffing the GTs attacks, won't bring them to fT territory with them.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-20 12:05 ]</font>

[Akaimizu]

My Laser Cannon is not useless, because the nerf is at worst, puts it comparable to one of my best weapons fully levelled. Guess all my weapons are useless.

[McLaughlin]

The second part got "rebalanced" too severely. If they're going to make the ATP boost nearly uniform through the entire PA, they've got to nerf Majarra, Anga Redda, Cross Hurricane, Renga Chujin-shou, Rising Crush, Spinning Strike ect...

The first part is...livable, but using the second part is going to make you a sitting duck. There's no benefit to it anymore. This goes back to launch, with the massive "rebalance" on PAs. Nobody wants to be outdamamged, and everyone gets excited at the prospect of weakening the classes that do more damage than them.

[DoubleJG]

Down with slicers! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

PS: Give Slicer of Assassin ><

[Akaimizu]

I don't care about the simple damage comparison. I can say this all day, which I have. It was literally taking rooms of mobs away from everybody else when people starting abusing the heck of the chikki. That's all. If it wasn't doing that and still doing nice damage, then that would be fine.

It's a ranged attack, whether you like it or not. And there's a serious reason why all ranged attacks are kept in check not to do stuff like 3000+ per mob easily in just one part of the combo. With today's mobs standards.

This would be overkill in a rangers hands, a fortetechers hands, or anybody's hands. It just happened to go to fighters. This alone, broke the very reason why all other ranged attacks couldn't do that, especially with the distance it reaches. Why any one person could only match the damage of the whole combo, across all those monsters, over a much longer length of time.

I'm one to definitely agree if I'm given something broken and avoid doing it. I didn't go abusing the mech gun glitch, when we had it, and played without consideration and took kills all day. I even promoted whatever they could do to get rid of it. I even agreed on how the old PSO Ramarls were kind of broken, even though I played one.

But if there is one thing I will speak against, is something that seems devoutly against fair play and that enough people decided to not be considerate with it. If a population abuses it, then it is a problem. If people "chilled" with the application of it, it would be better. The people to blame for it, are the loads of inconsiderate people taking advantage with it.

In quite a few versions of PSO, Techers had the overkill button with Rafoie, being able to kill rooms with a click. Overpowered, probably; but the main and only balancer there was that people were more responsible and "chilled" with the application of it. ST obviously saw a different thing happening here.

In a group, if you use Chikki and are worried about the new one leaving you open. They'll take care of you, it basically makes it still viable in a group that actually works together.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-02-20 12:38 ]</font>

[unicorn]

Chikki wha?

*hides from Jabroni and Majarra*

[Lamak]

I don't really care. Would have been nice if there was a feature where, the more people are in a party, the weaker a PA was. Oh well.

[Sexy_Raine]

It deserved it, even though my lousy ANA whored it a lot. Either way melee types don't gain any respect from me for not using it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[JarinKail]

On 2008-02-20 11:53, GuardianElite wrote:

On 2008-02-20 11:52, JarinKail wrote:
I would argue that I feel they're more melee than ranged, but it would serve no purpose.


Than I would argue GTer is more Range than techer
Wartecher More Melee than Techer. Your Point?



Thanks for proving my point.

[ljkkjlcm9]

On 2008-02-20 12:19, Obsidian_Knight wrote:
The second part got "rebalanced" too severely. If they're going to make the ATP boost nearly uniform through the entire PA, they've got to nerf Majarra, Anga Redda, Cross Hurricane, Renga Chujin-shou, Rising Crush, Spinning Strike ect...

The first part is...livable, but using the second part is going to make you a sitting duck. There's no benefit to it anymore. This goes back to launch, with the massive "rebalance" on PAs. Nobody wants to be outdamamged, and everyone gets excited at the prospect of weakening the classes that do more damage than them.


there's a huge difference between the slicer, and every melee PA. Do you know how annoying it is to be using Cross Hurricane, get to the third hit, be twirling around like a mad man, only to get hit for a puny 100 damage and stopped. All these PAs have to get up close and personal to use. Slicer, you can hide on the other side of a wall. Melee PA's do not need to be rebalanced, this one did, because it was truly a ranged PA.

THE JACKEL

[Xaeris]

Nothing's changed for me.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/XLauncher/psu20080220_142849_000.jpg
Kills things in the same amount of combos. Just have to aim.

[Weeaboolits]

They're making it not overpowered? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif That means I can go back to using them and not feel like I'm cheating!

I rather like the animation in chikki, so I'm glad it's being weakened to the point where I can use it.

[Reipard]

Perfectly happy with it. Chikki's been hurting for a deft blow with the nerf bat for a while now.

[McLaughlin]

On 2008-02-20 16:47, Reipard wrote:
Perfectly happy with it. Chikki's been hurting for a deft blow with the nerf bat for a while now.



But instead of bonking Chikki on the head with it, they shoved the bat down its throat.

And for lkjlkjlksfsd0981203987's Cross Hurricane thing? How many Diga balls do you eat while using Chikki? Cross Hurricane makes you move a bit (and has knockdown). Chikki parks you right there and sets you up to eat whatever's thrown your way in exchange for doing some damage.

Now it sets you up to eat it with a spork. I have Choutou too, it's just disheartening that's all I'll be able to use.

[Mewnie]

maybe acronoobs can L2P now >:3

[Gunslinger-08]

I swear, it's not like what they did to the penetration PAs. Chikki WILL BE FINE. You just wont own everything as quickly as before.

[ljkkjlcm9]

On 2008-02-20 17:40, Obsidian_Knight wrote:

On 2008-02-20 16:47, Reipard wrote:
Perfectly happy with it. Chikki's been hurting for a deft blow with the nerf bat for a while now.



But instead of bonking Chikki on the head with it, they shoved the bat down its throat.

And for lkjlkjlksfsd0981203987's Cross Hurricane thing? How many Diga balls do you eat while using Chikki? Cross Hurricane makes you move a bit (and has knockdown). Chikki parks you right there and sets you up to eat whatever's thrown your way in exchange for doing some damage.

Now it sets you up to eat it with a spork. I have Choutou too, it's just disheartening that's all I'll be able to use.


90% of the time you're doing Chikki, there are melee fighters in there taking the damage, distracting the enemy, while you safely use the PA from a distance. It's not even comparable. Melee's almost always have the enemies focused on them compared to those who stay at range. That's how it's suppose to work. The melee people hit the enemies close and keep their attention, while rangers and techers attack from a far, having to worry little about being attacked in return. Granted it doesn't always work this way, but having problems getting hit during a Melee PA, is always far more likely than anything at a range.

THE JACKEL