Content updates

[GuardianElite]

On 2008-03-12 21:34, SylviaEspada wrote:
I don't know if it hasn't been posted here (as far as I can see)... but prepare for more (potential) disappointment:

Taken from the official boards (http://boards2.sega.com/psu_board/viewtopic.php?p=806952&highlight=&sid=30b2bf0227be3e90273fe5a17e63d18d#806952)

It looks like we might have to hold off on the content updates for the PC/PS2 server. I will make an announcement as soon as we are sure about this, but it might not be until after maintenance. I hope that this isn't the case, but if we have to delay we will try to make sure that this doesn't impact our schedule for the rest of spring, and make sure there are no surprises after maintenance.

Xbox 360 is still looking good for tomorrows update.

-ChillAura


What will become of this duh duh duhhhh...


Notice: This topic was originally part of 3/14 Update (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?forum=20&topic=171694)

[panzer_unit]

Know what? Updating an online application without glitches is fucking hard without a huge QA team that I can't imagine PSU possibly having. Other online games, and even goddamn business applications, screw up to a greater degree than the very worst of Sega's mistakes.

I know a reality check isn't going to stop people from carrying on like a kindergarten class that's had nap time cancelled, but that's all I've got.

[chu-chu-chu]

do these update problems happen on the jp pc/ps2 servers?

[thebummers]

Since my last sarcasm-laden opinion was deleted I will try again...

This stuff has ALREADY GONE LIVE ON JAPANESE SERVERS MONTHS AGO. This means that very few new issues should pop up by the time it gets to us. Even if they don't have a test server, they should be talking to Japan to find out what went right and wrong. THIS is why bugs and content delays for us are so hard to swallow.

[EspioKaos]

On 2008-03-13 07:21, chu-chu-chu wrote:
do these update problems happen on the jp pc/ps2 servers?

Yes. They've gone through their fair share of rollbacks, delays and other bugs that were released and not fixed until later maintenance periods.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-03-13 07:52, thebummers wrote:
This stuff has ALREADY GONE LIVE ON JAPANESE SERVERS MONTHS AGO. This means that very few new issues should pop up by the time it gets to us. Even if they don't have a test server, they should be talking to Japan to find out what went right and wrong. THIS is why bugs and content delays for us are so hard to swallow.


Wouldn't it be awesome if this kind of stuff was so simple?

"The mechanic stuck his head under the hood of my car and waved a wrench around, why doesn't it work? Other mechanics fix other cars all the time."

[chu-chu-chu]

On 2008-03-13 08:03, EspioKaos wrote:

On 2008-03-13 07:21, chu-chu-chu wrote:
do these update problems happen on the jp pc/ps2 servers?

Yes. They've gone through their fair share of rollbacks, delays and other bugs that were released and not fixed until later maintenance periods.

Has this been happening recently?

[chu-chu-chu]

On 2008-03-13 08:08, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2008-03-13 07:52, thebummers wrote:
This stuff has ALREADY GONE LIVE ON JAPANESE SERVERS MONTHS AGO. This means that very few new issues should pop up by the time it gets to us. Even if they don't have a test server, they should be talking to Japan to find out what went right and wrong. THIS is why bugs and content delays for us are so hard to swallow.


Wouldn't it be awesome if this kind of stuff was so simple?

"The mechanic stuck his head under the hood of my car and waved a wrench around, why doesn't it work? Other mechanics fix other cars all the time."
LOL! It's just like that!

Except it's the same mechanic fixing the same kind of car, just one bought one place and the other car bought another place.

Low expectations and abusive relationsips FTW!

[EspioKaos]

On 2008-03-13 08:20, chu-chu-chu wrote:

On 2008-03-13 08:03, EspioKaos wrote:

On 2008-03-13 07:21, chu-chu-chu wrote:
do these update problems happen on the jp pc/ps2 servers?

Yes. They've gone through their fair share of rollbacks, delays and other bugs that were released and not fixed until later maintenance periods.

Has this been happening recently?

Yes. I can't think of any recent delays, but in today's maintenance, a few bugs were knowingly released. One such deals with the DMC exchange mission where if you trade Zon Spheres for PA Fragments but have 97 or more PAFs in your inventory, you won't be awarded the frags, but the Zon Spheres you have to trade for them will be used anyway. There are a few other bugs with the new event missions, too.

There was also an emergency maintenance on February 29th that was used to fix a few things, one of which was screwed up boss EXP payout.

[chu-chu-chu]

On 2008-03-13 08:33, EspioKaos wrote:

On 2008-03-13 08:20, chu-chu-chu wrote:

On 2008-03-13 08:03, EspioKaos wrote:

On 2008-03-13 07:21, chu-chu-chu wrote:
do these update problems happen on the jp pc/ps2 servers?

Yes. They've gone through their fair share of rollbacks, delays and other bugs that were released and not fixed until later maintenance periods.

Has this been happening recently?

Yes. I can't think of any recent delays, but in today's maintenance, a few bugs were knowingly released. One such deals with the DMC exchange mission where if you trade Zon Spheres for PA Fragments but have 97 or more PAFs in your inventory, you won't be awarded the frags, but the Zon Spheres you have to trade for them will be used anyway. There are a few other bugs with the new event missions, too.

There was also an emergency maintenance on February 29th that was used to fix a few things, one of which was screwed up boss EXP payout.

No offense, but those strike me as radically milder than the nearly non-stop nonsense with which the non-JP has been plagued since AotI was released, both for the PC/PS2 users and 360 users.

[JAFO22000]

On 2008-03-13 06:52, panzer_unit wrote:
Know what? Updating an online application without glitches is fucking hard without a huge QA team that I can't imagine PSU possibly having. Other online games, and even goddamn business applications, screw up to a greater degree than the very worst of Sega's mistakes.

I know a reality check isn't going to stop people from carrying on like a kindergarten class that's had nap time cancelled, but that's all I've got.



Well yes, you are correct in stating that adding new data to an existing online environment is difficult. The only thing is that all of the information in this update is pre-existing; all ST is doing is unlocking it, right? Why is this so difficult? (not rhetorical questions)

To use your mechanic analagy, replacing parts of an engine or transmission in a car to make it perform better is very hard and should only be handled by experts. This involves taking apart pieces, adding in the new parts and then putting everything back together, THEN ensuring everything runs as it should.

Replacing the brakes or the stock air filter with a "High Performance" air filter in a car to make it perform better is easy and can be handled by pretty much anyone with minimal training as these items are very accessible and all that is required is replacement of pre-existing parts.

All we're asking is that ST changes our oil correctly.

[Reipard]

The occasional screw-up? Okay, cool. Stuff happens. But this has been consistent screw-up after screw-up which incidentally followed a pretty good track record with updates on PSUv1. After a while it becomes simply ridiculous.

[Kylie]

On 2008-03-12 21:34, SylviaEspada wrote:
I don't know if it hasn't been posted here (as far as I can see)... but prepare for more (potential) disappointment:

Taken from the official boards (http://boards2.sega.com/psu_board/viewtopic.php?p=806952&highlight=&sid=30b2bf0227be3e90273fe5a17e63d18d#806952)

It looks like we might have to hold off on the content updates for the PC/PS2 server. I will make an announcement as soon as we are sure about this, but it might not be until after maintenance. I hope that this isn't the case, but if we have to delay we will try to make sure that this doesn't impact our schedule for the rest of spring, and make sure there are no surprises after maintenance.

Xbox 360 is still looking good for tomorrows update.

-ChillAura


If we don't get this update; I don't know what I'll do. I'm not trying to bitch about it like a baby. But the lame update thing has gotten me frustrated in general, and this is just icing on the cake. I need something to do!

[biggabertha]

I wonder if the PS2/PC servers do not get updated, will we keep the maximum luck? That would be rather nice...

I wonder if they'll just give us free Lumilass for a week when enough people moan about maximum luck being boring....

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-03-13 09:46, JAFO22000 wrote:
Well yes, you are correct in stating that adding new data to an existing online environment is difficult. The only thing is that all of the information in this update is pre-existing; all ST is doing is unlocking it, right? Why is this so difficult?

I think the only pre-existing things in PSU - as far as the server updates are concerned - are graphics files... mainly because that's about the only thing which hasn't gotten FUBAR on an update at some point in the past.

Beyond that it's all data shot into a DB with some update script, and worse yet they don't even seem to be told what the hell is actually in the update they're supposed to run. It's an operation that probably needs more QA resources than they've got at best, and miscommunication makes doing these things successfully pretty much impossible.

[Reipard]

Beyond that it's all data shot into a DB with some update script, and worse yet they don't even seem to be told what the hell is actually in the update they're supposed to run. It's an operation that probably needs more QA resources than they've got at best, and miscommunication makes doing these things successfully pretty much impossible.

Why is that acceptable again? Last I checked 'not having their shit together' isn't a valid excuse for anything XP.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-03-13 10:45, Reipard wrote:
Why is that acceptable again? Last I checked 'not having their shit together' isn't a valid excuse for anything XP.


lol true, but they point way back was that even online services that DO have their shit together screw up their share of updates.

Not that anybody should let that stop their bitching as if their lives hang in the balance over PS2 getting its update on time, even though they hate PSU and they're going to quit 'any day now'.

ProTip: put your stuff up for sale before you go.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-03-13 11:31 ]</font>

[chicken105]

i heard the robo pitch gernade launcher says "sega" in that robot pitched voice. That true?

[JAFO22000]

On 2008-03-13 10:37, panzer_unit wrote:

I think the only pre-existing things in PSU - as far as the server updates are concerned - are graphics files... mainly because that's about the only thing which hasn't gotten FUBAR on an update at some point in the past.

Beyond that it's all data shot into a DB with some update script, and worse yet they don't even seem to be told what the hell is actually in the update they're supposed to run. It's an operation that probably needs more QA resources than they've got at best, and miscommunication makes doing these things successfully pretty much impossible.


But everything on this update is in the game data, right? Like, the clothes are all in the AoI data already, all they have to do is make them available for purchase? And level 130 is in the data, all they have to do is make it available, right? They are doing no programming here, am I right? (again, not rhetorical, I really don't know!).

[amtalx]

On 2008-03-13 12:18, JAFO22000 wrote:
But everything on this update is in the game data, right? Like, the clothes are all in the AoI data already, all they have to do is make them available for purchase? And level 130 is in the data, all they have to do is make it available, right? They are doing no programming here, am I right? (again, not rhetorical, I really don't know!).



I've worked on projects that have release schedules based on "locked" content. Ideally, everything is planned and tested in advance and you can even have a script to excecute the update scripts, making the whole deploment essentially unmaned.

My professional opionion is that ST wanted to do something like that...but totally screwed it up. The problem with schemes like that is there is a domino effect if something goes wrong. If update A blows up, update B will likely be broken too, since consecutive updates usually some some element of dependency (although I'm speaking in general, not specifically about PSU.)

...but to answer you question, Yes. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif They most likely have every thing for the next 1-2 years planned. But for some reason, they keep tripping over their own feet.

[Albelnoxx]

hmmmmm that have it up on the offical web site now when do you think we will get it im still waiting for the update lol.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-03-13 12:18, JAFO22000 wrote:
But everything on this update is in the game data, right? Like, the clothes are all in the AoI data already, all they have to do is make them available for purchase? And level 130 is in the data, all they have to do is make it available, right?


It could be that there is absolutely nothing about the maid set in their database. You've got a couple nameless graphics models on your game disc and until some magical data file gets converted into a bunch of database rows tonight there is absolutely nothing else about it.

How much XP does lv121 take? What would your stats be? There might be absolutely no information about that.

The stuff that's actually likely to go WRONG (on top of any piece of data touched by human hands being completely wrong) is all kinds of technical crap I don't want to take guesses about.

[RemiusTA]

On 2008-03-13 09:46, JAFO22000 wrote:

On 2008-03-13 06:52, panzer_unit wrote:
Know what? Updating an online application without glitches is fucking hard without a huge QA team that I can't imagine PSU possibly having. Other online games, and even goddamn business applications, screw up to a greater degree than the very worst of Sega's mistakes.

I know a reality check isn't going to stop people from carrying on like a kindergarten class that's had nap time cancelled, but that's all I've got.



Well yes, you are correct in stating that adding new data to an existing online environment is difficult. The only thing is that all of the information in this update is pre-existing; all ST is doing is unlocking it, right? Why is this so difficult? (not rhetorical questions)

To use your mechanic analagy, replacing parts of an engine or transmission in a car to make it perform better is very hard and should only be handled by experts. This involves taking apart pieces, adding in the new parts and then putting everything back together, THEN ensuring everything runs as it should.

Replacing the brakes or the stock air filter with a "High Performance" air filter in a car to make it perform better is easy and can be handled by pretty much anyone with minimal training as these items are very accessible and all that is required is replacement of pre-existing parts.

All we're asking is that ST changes our oil correctly.



Except your still under the notion that transferring content to these servers is an "oil change". Unlocking content from the game is pulling it from the disc, but it isnt that simple. There is far more programming to be done that is completely serverside in the creation of most of these missions, and the game engine itself (correct me if im wrong) can almost be completely altered by Serverside alterations -- in other words, changes made by SEGA that are not already on the Disc or game data.

Example of that would be the launch of AotI. Sega patched the game and added Just Attack, Just Counter and PP regeration to the game, without the data being on the disc at launch.

Another example is the fact that ST can alter pretty much EVERYTHING about this game serverside. Your weapons, your character stats, your class, your items, your room, your PM, the Photon Arts you have learned, hell they might even be able to alter the way you move. (although doubtful.)


I just wish people would stop bashing Sonic Team for what they do, like no other game company on earth has glitches with their updates and has monsters and bosses that arent reskins. Sure, World of Warcraft doesnt have the same glitches PSU has, but it DOES have glitches, and they DO fuck up on occasion. And on top of that, World of Warcraft is NOT Phantasy Star Universe. The engines are completely different, and aside from positioning and crap i would venture to say PSU's engine is a tad more complex. (Ive never played WoW, but meh, its a Point n Click.)




Like you said, there is a planning problem. At the start of PSU the unlocking of content really DID seem like a ploy for making you stay subscribed longer.

But if you've been paying attention, this game has been going through ALOT of changes -- Classes, PAs, technic range, targets, EVERYTHING is going through changes. These kind of alterations would be considered major for any other game, and for a game like PSO i do not believe they would even be possible without another disc.

Raising the level cap to 130 means you have to raise the entire game up with you :
-You have to set a reasonable amount of experience to raise the levels
-You have to give missions with monsters that GIVE a reasonable amount of experience in porportion to the amount in the level that wont allow you to level too fast or too slow
- On top of that, you have to create a mission or another rank of a mission to counter the level of the players
-On top of THAT, you have to set the status of the monsters in order to make them a challenge for the higher players who are CONSTANTLY growing in ability...



Leaving items and such out, there so much planning and math to it that its really unfair imo to just call them "lazy". Sure, they could solve it with a simple equation, but then you'll end up with a game where after you reach the cap and unlock a new difficulty your simply playing the difficulty before that one with a higher leveled character.






And on top of all this, the data and patches for the game that is being transfered over to this version has to be TRANSLATED, and thats never a cakewalk, which leads to having to alter some things and having technical problems with others.



------------

So, in a nutshell, there really is no way to tell if lv 121-130 was already in the game or not, but either way there is alot to consider when it comes to dealing with how to raise a character's stats and how to create an environment around them to still have fun with. Seeing all the changes they've been making is an indication of this.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RemiusTA on 2008-03-13 13:45 ]</font>

[Sinue_v2]

Unlocking content from the game is pulling it from the disc, but it isnt that simple.

Which is why you hire competent professionals, right? I mean, brain surgery isn't very simple either - but if a staff of doctors at a certain hospital continually fail to diagnose or treat patients, sometimes lobotomizing a few of them in process, would everyone just be cool about it? Would they be understanding? Oh, well brain surgery just isn't that Simple!!

To return to the automotive analogy, I sure as hell wouldn't pay $300 to a mechanic to fix my car if all he's going to do is "wave his wrench around" and say "I can't fix it." or "I can fix it, but just ignore that knocking sound". I'm going to send my car to a mechanic that can fix my car, and fix it right - or grantee their work so that if the repairs fail, fixing the fix does not cost me out of pocket. That's called customer service, and it's the saftey net in case of such issues. Even so, even with a grantee, if said mechanic keeps messing up my repair jobs (even if the repairs to the repairs are free), I will stop going to that mechanic.

Now, Games and Cars are pretty far removed from each other. I wouldn't tolerate this kind of treatment from a mechanic, but I will continue to play PSU because of two reasons. One, because on some level I still enjoy the game enough to pay $10 a month. I like the idea of MMO's, but not the execution - and PSU/PSO is the closest anyone has gotten yet to my idea of a fun MMO. And two, brand loyalty. I probably wouldn't have stuck around if this was Final Fantasy Universe, or Shining Force Online. Still, though, I will not bend over and kiss Sonic Team's ass, defending them everytime they screw up until it reaches critical mass like has happened to so many other people.


I just wish people would stop bashing Sonic Team for what they do, like no other game company on earth has glitches with their updates and has monsters and bosses that arent reskins. Sure, World of Warcraft doesnt have the same glitches PSU has, but it DOES have glitches, and they DO fuck up on occasion. And on top of that, World of Warcraft is NOT Phantasy Star Universe. The engines are completely different, and aside from positioning and crap i would venture to say PSU's engine is a tad more complex.

Ultimately, the success or failure of Phantasy Star Universe rests upon Sonic Team's performance. So seeing the population (on both the 360 and the PC/PS2) that Sonic Team is doing something very, VERY, wrong, because PSU is not as popular as it's contemporaries - nor is it as popular as it COULD have been. And it's not advertising. World of Warcraft had almost no advertising, and spread to 8 million players almost entirely by word of mouth. You could say, especially on the PC side, that competition is just too fierce with all the other MMO's out there competing against PSU. But again, it's still Sonic Team's fault for making a game that can't compete in the market. Which is not to say that PSU should be LIKE World of Warcraft, as you don't have to mimick a product to compete with it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2008-03-13 14:03 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-03-13 13:48, Sinue_v2 wrote:
Still, though, I will not bend over and kiss Sonic Team's ass, defending them everytime they screw up until it reaches critical mass like has happened to so many other people.

Whoring attention with a bunch of pissing and moaning is SO much better. If you're going to be irritating and negative, hey how about doing it to SEGA and not just a bunch of fellow players?

Honestly this site is plummeting into the shitter every bit as hard as the game it's about, because the community is just this black hole of bitter whiners.


World of Warcraft had almost no advertising, and spread to 8 million players almost entirely by word of mouth. You could say, especially on the PC side, that competition is just too fierce with all the other MMO's out there competing against PSU. But again, it's still Sonic Team's fault for making a game that can't compete in the market. Which is not to say that PSU should be LIKE World of Warcraft, as you don't have to mimick a product to compete with it.

Uh, world of WARCRAFT had like a decade of advertizing in the for of WARCRAFT pretty much dominating the RTS genre... and Blizzard was also ridiculously famous for RPG-ish stuff with Diablo. WoW hit the ground running like no other game ever, just based on the company's HUGE track record. And yeah they advertize, have you seen the one with mister T?

Secondly, it's actually impossible to compete with WoW without taking on all the point-and-click MMO baggage... that's just the style of game those 8 million people or whatever are looking for. Oh my god you should have seen people go insane at the possiblity of D&DOnline being an action-oriented ORPG instead of a point and click aggro management thing.

[RemiusTA]

On 2008-03-13 13:48, Sinue_v2 wrote:

Unlocking content from the game is pulling it from the disc, but it isnt that simple.

Which is why you hire competent professionals, right?

If you read ANYTHING i said in that post, you would realize why this statement and every analogy that follows makes absolutely zero sense.



I mean, brain surgery isn't very simple either - but if a staff of doctors at a certain hospital continually fail to diagnose or treat patients, sometimes lobotomizing a few of them in process, would everyone just be cool about it? Would they be understanding? Oh, well brain surgery just isn't that Simple!!


Brain Surgery is not PSU, and Brain Surgery and debugging a videogame are two very differnet professions. Although one of them is definately more important than the other, they BOTH require an amount of knowledge on the subject. However, unlike Brain Surgery, which has diagnostics performed on the patient BEFORE the operation is executed, Debugging a game program REQUIRES you to fuck up before you ever know there was even a problem. There is no medical book when it comes to programming PSU. They have the testers, but rarely do they find each and every one of them, and that applies to any game. Thats what Open Beta's are for, but they dont count for much when your constantly altering the game.



To return to the automotive analogy, I sure as hell wouldn't pay $300 to a mechanic to fix my car if all he's going to do is "wave his wrench around" and say "I can't fix it." or "I can fix it, but just ignore that knocking sound". I'm going to send my car to a mechanic that can fix my car, and fix it right - or grantee their work so that if the repairs fail, fixing the fix does not cost me out of pocket. That's called customer service, and it's the saftey net in case of such issues. Even so, even with a grantee, if said mechanic keeps messing up my repair jobs (even if the repairs to the repairs are free), I will stop going to that mechanic.


I agree. I dont see how this applies to the conversation, though.



Still, though, I will not bend over and kiss Sonic Team's ass, defending them everytime they screw up until it reaches critical mass like has happened to so many other people.

This happens to every MMOgame on the planet. Do i see people bitching to nintendo for the ooodles and noodle clumps of glitches and exploitations brawl has on release? Do you want me to show them to you?



Ultimately, the success or failure of Phantasy Star Universe rests upon Sonic Team's performance. So seeing the population (on both the 360 and the PC/PS2) that Sonic Team is doing something very, VERY, wrong, because PSU is not as popular as it's contemporaries - nor is it as popular as it COULD have been. And it's not advertising. World of Warcraft had almost no advertising, and spread to 8 million players almost entirely by word of mouth. You could say, especially on the Pblah blah blah blah



HAHAHA whole arguement dies here. PSU is doing fine and dandy in Japan, the reason it suffers here is because they DONT advertise stateside. I believe i also stated in some other topic that the only reason the Xbox population isnt as small as the PS2/PC population is because its on Xbox Live. 1), you dont need a credit card to get access to the game; you just need to go to walmart and buy the Microsoft points. 2) Its XBOX LIVE. The most popular internet gaming portal on the planet. There isnt much else to advertise. Thats also why you'll see an age difference in the PS2/PC players and the 360 players...which kind of explains partially their commnuity differences.

And stating that the popularity of Sega's Phantasy Star MMO genre being lower than that of Blizzard's (which happens to have orginated IN THIS COUNTRY) World of WARCRAFT somehow being an indication of its quality ALSO makes zero sense.


You do know that South Park had an ENTIRE EPISODE dedicated to World of Warcraft, right? You do know that the entire episode was played out INSIDE the game, right?

No Advertising? If i recall the population of World of Warcraft got such a fucking huge jump after that episode aired it made the news.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RemiusTA on 2008-03-13 14:57 ]</font>

[pikachief]

On 2008-03-13 12:02, chicken105 wrote:
i heard the robo pitch gernade launcher says "sega" in that robot pitched voice. That true?



what do u not believe me? lol i was told by someone who used it offline and was in a party with someone using it online D:

[Sinue_v2]

If you're going to be irritating and negative, hey how about doing it to SEGA and not just a bunch of fellow players?

How about not reading comments you don't like?


Honestly this site is plummeting into the shitter every bit as hard as the game it's about, because the community is just this black hole of bitter whiners.

lol, you think this is a new development?


Uh, world of WARCRAFT had like a decade of advertizing in the for of WARCRAFT pretty much dominating the RTS genre...

RTS =/= MMORPG. Neither Diablo or the WarCraft RTS series was never even CLOSE to being as popular as WoW. And it's not like PSU didn't have an already established fanbase either, as Phantasy Star has been around since 1988, and PSO was very well recieved - albiet niche - title which managed (I believe) to procure at least 1,000,000 accounts by the time Ep III launched. (Although it's hard telling if those are unique accounts). Not to mention that PS/PSO's good name (lol) carried a lot of hype for PSU when it first launched, as it was a very highly anticipated title by many publications (including 1up) and won several E3 awards, or runner-up awards, the year before launch by various publications. Clearly PSU did have some visable momentum entering the marketplace which has pretty much all evaporated in the first few months.


And yeah they advertize, have you seen the one with mister T?

You mean the one that came out just late last year after the game was already well over 8 million subscribers?


Secondly, it's actually impossible to compete with WoW without taking on all the point-and-click MMO baggage...

No, it's not. Although it would take a proverbial lighting strike to get anywhere NEAR WoW's userbase, there's enough of those players who enjoy both Point & Click combat and Action RPGs for a successful mix of Action Online RPG and MMO to carve out a respectable marketshare for itself and compete with WoW. Not topple them, perhaps not even make the higher-ups at Blizzard even sit up to take notice, but certainly at least on the same level as WoW's other competetors like EQ, FFXI, SW:G, etc.

Not to mention that a game like PSU need not even go after WoW's userbase. 8 million players is a lot, but it's barely even a drop in the bucket compaired to the total number of gamers out there. The PS2 alone sold over 120 million units. That's a LOT of consoles, and a lot of oppertunity for PSU to grow. There's concievably well over 8 million players who might WANT an online RPG that isn't point & click combat, or can be turned on to them, but are simply not enticed by PSU or any of the other offerings thus far.


However, unlike Brain Surgery, which has diagnostics performed on the patient BEFORE the operation is executed, Debugging a game program REQUIRES you to fuck up before you ever know there was even a problem. There is no medical book when it comes to programming PSU. They have the testers, but rarely do they find each and every one of them, and that applies to any game. Thats what Open Beta's are for, but they dont count for much when your constantly altering the game.

This is why they have Test Servers, no? Do you think MS applies ANY changes to Xbox Live without thorough testing and quality control? Do you think WoW, FFXI, etc don't test their patches? And yes, mistakes do ocassionally slip through. However, they don't happen with the frequency in which they happen in PSU - nor do they generally go ignored for as long. Nor do they generally screw up their screwups as we've been seeing lately in PSU. PSU also has the added benefit of seeing patches applied in Japan before being applied to the US/EU servers. Although the symmetry between the servers aren't exactly the same, it does give them an advantage that many other online games do not enjoy.


I agree. I dont see how this applies to the conversation, though.

It's rather simple. It's merely a call for competency. I never intended to draw direct parallels between the processes of brain surgery or auto mechanics and game development/management. I only wish to stress the point that all of these feilds have their own difficulties to contend with, and in all of these feilds - the excuses for poor service matter little in the marketplace. What matters is getting the job done right, and pleasing the customer.

Now of course, you can't please all of the people all of the time, but as PSU has shown - they're barely pleasing any of the customers, at any time.


Do i see people bitching to nintendo for the ooodles and noodle clumps of glitches and exploitations brawl has on release? Do you want me to show them to you?

I have heard of the problems with SSB, but I haven't played the game myself. However, if the game is really so full of bugs, glitches, and exploits that it's become a real issue - then perhaps Nintendo does deserve the critisim it's getting over SSB. Especially after haughty proclomations by Miyamoto such as "A delayed game is delayed a short time. A bad game is bad forever" - or something along those lines.


PSU is doing fine and dandy in Japan

Congratulations to the Japanese. I'm not Japanese, nor do I play on their servers, nor do most of the people here. The state of affairs on their servers is of little consequence to those who do not play on their servers. And if their population is greater, it's likely also that the game is very much a Japanese oriented title. Which again, is fine and dandy for a game released in Japan. PSU was released worldwide, and so they probably should have developed the game with a more multi-national view in mind if they wanted it to do well outside of Japan. It would, mind you, behoove them to do this as the North American and European markets are FAR larger than Japan's. Thus, far greater potential profit that they lost out on due to short-sightedness.

The current issue with server updates is just an augment to the problem.


I believe i also stated in some other topic that the only reason the Xbox population isnt as small as the PS2/PC population is because its on Xbox Live.

I never mentioned the Xbox PSU's population as being especially large, nor compaired it to the PS2 userbase. I'm not picking out the PS2/PC or Xbox's userbase to make my statements on. I'm talking about the userbase as a whole, which all things considered is extremely small.


you dont need a credit card to get access to the game; you just need to go to walmart and buy the Microsoft points.

Unless things have changed since I last logged into PSU360, your entire statement is a complete fabrication as you cannot use MS points to pay for a PSU subscription. You can use it to pay for the expansion download, but not the monthly fees.

But were that not even the case, you wouldn't need a Credit Card to play on the PS2/PC side either. Debit Cards (which you can get at your bank for free, at just about any age) and Prepaid Credit Cards (which you can get at Walmart) work equally well. I don't even own a Credit Card myself, as I don't like the idea of spending money that I don't have - or paying interest and service fees on money that I do have and can afford to spend.


2) Its XBOX LIVE. The most popular internet gaming portal on the planet. Thats also why you'll see an age difference in the PS2/PC players and the 360 players...which kind of explains partially their commnuity differences.

Xbox Live is just that. A portal. It may be the most popular portal, but PS2 and PC do not need to facilitate the use of a portal. And far more people play games online without portals, than they do on Xbox Live or other gaming services. How this has any bering on the conversation, I don't know. And I wish that if you were going chide me for making "pointless points" that you would refrain from doing the same.


And stating that the popularity of Sega's Phantasy Star MMO genre being lower than that of Blizzard's (which happens to have orginated IN THIS COUNTRY) World of WARCRAFT somehow being an indication of its quality ALSO makes zero sense.

IIRC, There are far more WoW players in Japan than there are in PSU players in Japan. Not to mention to the other asian countries. WOW isn't an American or European phenomena, it's a worldwide phenomena. And yes, while the bulk of it's playerbase is in the west, that doesn't mean it's unsuccessful in other territories.

And quality is a very good determination of a game's success or failure. Although a lack of quality in a product does not necessarilly always equate to success or failure (McDonalds, for example), it is a major factor.


You do know that South Park had an ENTIRE EPISODE dedicated to World of Warcraft, right? You do know that the entire episode was played out INSIDE the game, right?

You forget that South Park would NEVER have done an episode on World of Warcraft had the game not already been hugely successful and wildly popular. The fact that their usebase jumped EVEN MORE after the episode is a given. However, how many South Park episodes have features Phantasy Star Universe? They won't make one, because nobody outside a small handful of fans gives a shit about it. Were South Park to make an episode featuring PSU, in what kind of light do you think they'd portray the game? A jump in population would most certainly follow, regardless, but how long do you think those users would stick around?

Most MMO's when they release start with a small fanbase and grow, whereas PSU has started with a small fanbase - and declined. Rapidly. You can call up differences between the Xbox and PS2/PC server populations if you want, but that really serves no purpose as the two titles aren't competing against one another, and across the board - the population level has fallen. Even with the "advertising" on Xbox Live, and the demo being available for free on the marketplace.

[edit: moved and combined post after mod moved the topic]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2008-03-13 17:59 ]</font>

[Kerry157]

what the hell moderators

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kerry157 on 2008-03-15 05:37 ]</font>

[Dark Emerald EXE]

YAY 360 can still play.....*cough* sorry for the ps2/pc server

[Micki_Monday]

OMG... it isnt even an hour into the update and they like totally messed it up already?? I was taking a short break from PSU to play some games on DS with friends, but I was gonna come back once we got an update... Guess I have more time to play with my DS now >.<

What is going on at Sega?? Every one of our updates for the last several weeks (months?) have been totally messed up.. This is really starting to make me even more mad that I'm paying these ppl for their mistakes..

[Para]

On 2008-03-13 23:45, Micki_Monday wrote:
OMG... it isnt even an hour into the update and they like totally messed it up already?? I was taking a short break from PSU to play some games on DS with friends, but I was gonna come back once we got an update... Guess I have more time to play with my DS now >.<

What is going on at Sega?? Every one of our updates for the last several weeks (months?) have been totally messed up.. This is really starting to make me even more mad that I'm paying these ppl for their mistakes..

Yeah Im sorta wondering about that but atleast this time they're telling us about the delay. More time for Advance Wars lol

[imfanboy]

At least they told us.

I'd ruther find out in advance, then go through what we all did a year ago when they promised us the PA Frag PAs, and we all waited for the update to be over, rushed to the GUARDIANS HQs on each planet -

AND ONLY FOUND OUT THEN THEY HADN'T BEEN ADDED.

Sigh, I'm quite disappointed in not being able to hunt a Love Inferno for poor Champagne, but oh well, such is life.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

I mean i know im on the 360 server but ive been wandering y the ps2/pc server been messing up
i mean you guys had like 2 rollbacks within the last 2 months didnt you????

[ashley50]

awww too bad for us PC/PS2 users....

back to hunting jaos and doing same old missions XD
Oh well...there's Brawl to play anyways. (not me)

[LaughingMan]

Anyone on the east coast that plays on a 360 want to pull an all nighter with me until the update is done?

[RuPiKa]

On 2008-03-13 23:24, Kerry157 wrote:

On 2008-03-13 23:21, Micro wrote:
http://boards2.sega.com/psu_board/viewtopic.php?t=73380

[spoiler-box]
The content scheduled for our 3/14 update is delayed on the PC/PS2 Server.

Check here again after servers are opened, but there should be no surprises.

-ChillAura[/spoiler-box]



"SRY GUYS WE GOT DDRUNK FOR GREEN BEERDAY SO R 2 SMAESHED TO UPDATE SERVERSS"

Wow, I could let them slide on that one. O_o But, that is not till next week (or Saturday at the earliest).

[Kerry157]

Green beer day is march 13th, which is gone now

[ShadowDragon28]

dammit..that sux.

[Celi-Ka]

It's not a huge deal. This just means more alt-leveling for me. That and dusting off my DS a bit.

[Zorafim]

The update wasn't anything special anyway, besides the clothing. I hope they combine it with next update instead of giving us nothing. Or better yet, actually implement it as soon as possible.

[RuPiKa]

On 2008-03-14 00:06, Kerry157 wrote:
Green beer day is march 13th, which is gone now

it is on Monday and/or Saturdy see this page"http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=9917"

[Kerry157]

Green beer day is not saint patrick's day.

[Micki_Monday]

On 2008-03-13 23:54, Charger89 wrote:
I mean i know im on the 360 server but ive been wandering y the ps2/pc server been messing up
i mean you guys had like 2 rollbacks within the last 2 months didnt you????



Yeah, we have. I guess they just went ahead and decided not to even attempt an update for us so they dont have to give another lame week of luck 3 later
>.<

It's good that they caught the mistake before they put the servers back online and let ppl grind for several hours before another rollback.. but that also shows that they know they're totally retarded and gonna make a mistake in the first place lol.

[Sasamichan]

On 2008-03-13 23:33, Charger89 wrote:
YAY 360 can still play.....*cough* sorry for the ps2/pc server



Now we know how you feel when you guys didn't get an update that one week.

[RuPiKa]

On 2008-03-14 00:18, Kerry157 wrote:
Green beer day is not saint patrick's day.

Oh, it is a spring break thing, for students in Ohio. Who get there break around St. Patty's Day.

[Kerry157]

Well, since st patrick's day falls during our spring break and all the students leave town for spring break, the campus bars dont get their huge st patrick's day profit so Green Beer day was invented and falls on the thursday before spring break every year.


edit: didnt type it right the first time (too drunnk)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kerry157 on 2008-03-14 00:34 ]</font>

[Syl]

Well, at least now I can celebrate Pi Day in its full glory

I will now verse from http://3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 105820974944592.com/index2.html


[spoiler-box]3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 10582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706 79
82148086513282306647093844609550582231725359408128 48111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038196
44288109756659334461284756482337867831652712019091 45648566923460348610454326648213393607260249141273
72458700660631558817488152092096282925409171536436 78925903600113305305488204665213841469519415116094
33057270365759591953092186117381932611793105118548 07446237996274956735188575272489122793818301194912
98336733624406566430860213949463952247371907021798 60943702770539217176293176752384674818467669405132
00056812714526356082778577134275778960917363717872 14684409012249534301465495853710507922796892589235
42019956112129021960864034418159813629774771309960 51870721134999999837297804995105973173281609631859
50244594553469083026425223082533446850352619311881 71010003137838752886587533208381420617177669147303
59825349042875546873115956286388235378759375195778 18577805321712268066130019278766111959092164201989
38095257201065485863278865936153381827968230301952 03530185296899577362259941389124972177528347913151
55748572424541506959508295331168617278558890750983 81754637464939319255060400927701671139009848824012
85836160356370766010471018194295559619894676783744 94482553797747268471040475346462080466842590694912 [/spoiler-box]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SylviaEspada on 2008-03-14 01:12 ]</font>

[Simmy]

I can't wait to die in an open party in the final room with my 1* armor in the Bruce S run LMAO!

[Winter_of_uno]

Come on ST, just shut down PSU servers already! Or let's at least roll back some more, like to before 1upCup.

[Xefi]

i paid an extra $10 for this new contents and look what happen. -_-;


Notice: This topic was originally part of 3/14 Update (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?forum=20&topic=171694)

[EtherForce]

lol do they feel the need to make it up to 360 players by making ps2 players wait on this update?

On 2008-03-14 09:03, RubySion wrote:
i paid an extra $10 for this new contents and look what happen. -_-;


Wha?

[warmachine420]

Well when my account runs out PSU has lost another player . So tired of all the mess up. It already made all my friends quite http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

I hate you PSU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[xEndrance]

Hey does anyone know what the new weps will be?

[Mysterious-G]

On 2008-03-14 12:29, warmachine420 wrote:
Well when my account runs out PSU has lost another player . So tired of all the mess up. It already made all my friends quite http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

I hate you PSU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Pls gib rares then.
I.. just got used to it. Just think of updates always coming one week later than announced. ;o

[LeMan_Bayon]

On 2008-03-14 13:21, Reginaldo wrote:
bawwwwww, 10 dollars isn't alot, etc.



$10 may not be a lot, but it does add up. I have been playing since release and you get 1 free month so that's 16 months including this one. So 10 x 16 = $160. Then $60 for the game and $20 to download expansion is $80. So I've already spent about $240 on this game(not including the taxes). That actually makes me a little sad now that I figured that out D:

[Celi-Ka]

This is why I used the $50 for 6-months plan after a year of the recurring thing. I should have started out with that 6-month plan.

[LeMan_Bayon]

On the 360 we don't even get a choice, you have to do recurring ._.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-03-14 13:35, LeMan_Bayon wrote:
$10 may not be a lot, but it does add up. I have been playing since release and you get 1 free month so that's 16 months including this one. So 10 x 16 = $160. Then $60 for the game and $20 to download expansion is $80. So I've already spent about $240 on this game(not including the taxes). That actually makes me a little sad now that I figured that out D:


... how many offline non-subscription games would you have played for 16 months? I can't think of a single one I've got that's lasted so long.

[LeMan_Bayon]

... how many offline non-subscription games would you have played for 16 months? I can't think of a single one I've got that's lasted so long.


Actually I really wouldn't have spent that much. I had a 360 since launch day and only had 2 games before PSU came out, about a year later.

[GuardianElite]

On 2008-03-14 12:29, warmachine420 wrote:
Well when my account runs out PSU has lost another player . So tired of all the mess up. It already made all my friends quite http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

I hate you PSU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Yeah I totally agree. Im thinking bout quitting or taking long break...

[fronebullare]

this is so depressing. Why cant they produce a successful update two times in a row? I mean, i dont know whats going in the ST office or whatever but is it really that hard to give us a update without screwing up.

[McLaughlin]

Shoe on the other foot, ect.

Enjoy your week in 360 land. Hopefully you don't get cheated out of a week of Easter/White Day stuff.

[Reipard]

lol true, but they point way back was that even online services that DO have their shit together screw up their share of updates.

Yes. But not anywhere near this level.


Not that anybody should let that stop their bitching as if their lives hang in the balance over PS2 getting its update on time, even though they hate PSU and they're going to quit 'any day now'.

When you isolate this issue, yes- it seems completely ridiculous. But you can isolate any issue and get that result. What matters is the context. There has been a history of this. And a company having a history of update failures is poor customer service. You go 'Okay ^_^' for a while, but after a number of this happening you start to go 'O_o' then '>_<'.


ProTip: put your stuff up for sale before you go.

I have a problem with Sega = I hate PSU and want to quit. Right. You're directing your apparent frustration at the wrong audience.


I just wish people would stop bashing Sonic Team for what they do, like no other game company on earth has glitches with their updates and has monsters and bosses that arent reskins. Sure, World of Warcraft doesnt have the same glitches PSU has, but it DOES have glitches, and they DO fuck up on occasion.

But only Sonic Team can boast reskinning an epic boss from something completely unrelated for an event designed to create nostalgia for that boss' original form, mirite?

And also, see "on occasion" in the context of those companies, then see what is wrong with this picture.

[McLaughlin]

Stop being so...intelligent.

Yeah, WoW has had glitches. They're dealt with immediately. They also don't happen every time they perform maintenance (which is supposed to prevent glitches. Oh irony.). No other company I've seen run a game has had this many issues with simple content updates, and in such a short span.

[Weeaboolits]

Sega needs to invest in a decent debugging team for Sonic Team, then maybe they could do something right.