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View Full Version : Speed runs (Gunmaster & Fighmaster)



TheFonz
Apr 5, 2008, 03:34 AM
Gunmaster
White Beast (S)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4F5qx2yT8w

Time: 6 minutes

True Darkness (S2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8657t0Spm0

Time: 4 minutes

Fighmaster
True Darkness (S2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3eyIjc2UVY

Time: 3 minutes

Now I'm no expert on Speed Runs, but these JP players seem to be VERY fast.

The Fighmaster seems to clear TD slightly quicker than the Gunmaster overall, however the GM seems to defeat Fakis slightly faster (even with FM's imba Jabroga) (Edit: I was incorrect, FM actually defeated Fakis 10 seconds faster than GM). In conclusion, I feel both these classes have some sort of clear superiority to their Forte counterparts but there are still some common circumstances where the Forte's will outperform, which makes them far from obsolete.

I couldn't find a speed run showcasing Forcemaster talents, but there's most likely one hanging around Youtube somewhere...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TheFonz on 2008-04-05 04:07 ]</font>

Middle
Apr 5, 2008, 03:37 AM
why they cannot get an S-rank on some missions soloing? it was said in the other thread i think.

TheFonz
Apr 5, 2008, 03:52 AM
On 2008-04-05 01:37, Middle wrote:
why they cannot get an S-rank on some missions soloing? it was said in the other thread i think.




I've no idea (I'm not 100% sure it's even true, but I'm sure someone here can confirm it), that being said I think these video's are proof alone that Master Classes might be the the king of soloing with speed, hence why giving them these restrictions might be necessary.

Micro
Apr 5, 2008, 03:55 AM
Jeez, some insane stuff right there.

Arika
Apr 5, 2008, 04:06 AM
the one who play Master gunner seem to have a crappy PC compare to Fightmaster http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Arika on 2008-04-05 02:07 ]</font>

icewyrm
Apr 5, 2008, 04:15 AM
6:47 on the first link at white beast, she got one shotted o_o How did that happen?
I guess these sorts of runs are for farming boss boxes?

Eleina
Apr 5, 2008, 04:31 AM
Speed runs are for personal amusement (i know because i do it myself)..it's not something you can use for farming because you have to perform the runs on certain maps.
@Arika the fighmaster doesn't seem to have a uber pc either (he's playing on frameskip 1 lol which even my laptop supports)

Lol laser is gonna be the new chiki xD and paradi cataract is just insanely powerful.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eleina on 2008-04-05 02:39 ]</font>

icewyrm
Apr 5, 2008, 04:36 AM
On 2008-04-05 02:31, Eleina wrote:
it's not something you can use for farming because you have to perform the runs on certain maps.


As in particular spawn patterns and such? I guess that makes sense, since you'd want the map with the fewest compulsory kills required to progress.

Though I suppose if you were looking for a particular boss drop you might end up memorising all the spawns, and doing something similar anyway, to save time.

Eleina
Apr 5, 2008, 04:45 AM
It's like that fighmasters run in b1 there is only 2 gaozorans (the other maps have either more gaos or twice as many jusnaguns or dilnazens)
I would be suprised if that fighmaster was using a 46-50% zagza and a 46-50% 12* spear

icewyrm
Apr 5, 2008, 05:07 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnQcA9zsLak
Similar vein from fortefighter, english version though. Chikki instead of majarra, lvl 120/15, and a time of 5:14 or so (and no s ranks either.)

I dunno, I reckon that a fortefighter with the same setup as that fighmaster might take a minute or less extra? Maybe not even that. Anyways, interesting vids. Made me realise that jabroga and majarra will probably never be balanced in line with other pas, this late into the JP update schedule. Not that I ever really thought they would, it just kinda hammered it home I guess.

Eleina
Apr 5, 2008, 05:42 AM
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u238/eleina01/5minTD.jpg
A fF will take longer because we don't have tornado trave/freeze G trapsl and fast wind up jabroga...Can't wait until we get that ice suv though will make things faster for cast fF xD

TheFonz
Apr 5, 2008, 05:44 AM
On 2008-04-05 03:07, icewyrm wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnQcA9zsLak
Similar vein from fortefighter, english version though. Chikki instead of majarra, lvl 120/15, and a time of 5:14 or so (and no s ranks either.)

I dunno, I reckon that a fortefighter with the same setup as that fighmaster might take a minute or less extra? Maybe not even that. Anyways, interesting vids. Made me realise that jabroga and majarra will probably never be balanced in line with other pas, this late into the JP update schedule. Not that I ever really thought they would, it just kinda hammered it home I guess.



Nice vid! From seeing this, it appears FM's aren't too far ahead of FF's, maybe even a bit behind. That being said the FF was a Beast, used pre-nerfed Chikki (loads better than Majarra) and nanoblasted for Fakis, but I guess that balances out the fact that the FM was 20 levels ahead, used S-Ranks (12*) and had 5 more class levels.

I guess we'll have to wait for a 140/20 FF speed run vid to compare but I have a slight feeling that the FM may still come out on top, just for its sheer speed (especially with lvl 50 Jabroga) and ability to zip round the level using the double saber.

Arika
Apr 5, 2008, 06:17 AM
@ Eleina : I said "compare" to the MG, the MG is not only using low quaility, she custom the setting to lower the color of enemy too, very crappy.
anyway, all this is depend on how you think anyway.

fayt6
Apr 5, 2008, 06:25 AM
wow just wow fighmasters look amazing...

F-Gattaca
Apr 5, 2008, 06:36 AM
Holy crap, that is hardcore. That Fighmaster looks especially intense, using Tornado Break to speed through True Darkness.

I'm pleased with the way the Master types've been handled, I think. They bring their own flavor to the party, but they don't negate the need for other types.

... the first Gunmaster video, with White Beast. Uh ... did they use ... Mari-tan music? I could swear that sounds like something that'd be used for Mari-tan stuff.

Love the PSO Immortal Feather remix in the FM's run though.

FOnewearl-Lina
Apr 5, 2008, 06:51 AM
On 2008-04-05 01:37, Middle wrote:
why they cannot get an S-rank on some missions soloing? it was said in the other thread i think.

no handgun = not being able to shoot certain switches, of course this only applies to like 1% of the maps available right now.

magenta
Apr 5, 2008, 06:55 AM
oh noes. jabrohax abuse.

Arika
Apr 5, 2008, 06:58 AM
ST need to add some super hard mission for those master class to team up lol.
unless they all will likely to solo (hunt item faster )

icewyrm
Apr 5, 2008, 07:01 AM
On 2008-04-05 04:36, F-Gattaca wrote:
... the first Gunmaster video, with White Beast. Uh ... did they use ... Mari-tan music? I could swear that sounds like something that'd be used for Mari-tan stuff.


I might be wrong, but I'm guessing it's from the dai mahou toge OST o_o

ne1first
Apr 5, 2008, 07:05 AM
On 2008-04-05 03:44, TheFonz wrote:

On 2008-04-05 03:07, icewyrm wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnQcA9zsLak
Similar vein from fortefighter, english version though. Chikki instead of majarra, lvl 120/15, and a time of 5:14 or so (and no s ranks either.)

I dunno, I reckon that a fortefighter with the same setup as that fighmaster might take a minute or less extra? Maybe not even that. Anyways, interesting vids. Made me realise that jabroga and majarra will probably never be balanced in line with other pas, this late into the JP update schedule. Not that I ever really thought they would, it just kinda hammered it home I guess.



Nice vid! From seeing this, it appears FM's aren't too far ahead of FF's, maybe even a bit behind. That being said the FF was a Beast, used pre-nerfed Chikki (loads better than Majarra) and nanoblasted for Fakis, but I guess that balances out the fact that the FM was 20 levels ahead, used S-Ranks (12*) and had 5 more class levels.

I guess we'll have to wait for a 140/20 FF speed run vid to compare but I have a slight feeling that the FM may still come out on top, just for its sheer speed (especially with lvl 50 Jabroga) and ability to zip round the level using the double saber.




To add to the list of handicaps (LV120, no S ranks, no npcs, etc), also notice that in the JP version, Gaozorans are melee friendly [again], while in the US version they are melee resistant. It is as if there was twice as many Gaos.

Saying that... in a mission that is all about jabroga and a little bit of small fry killing, fighmaster -should- win and CAST also has a little advantage with Grom/Cataract because it clears the last room very fast while beasts have to "work it". Nanoblast is a bit of a gamble, if Fakis decides to flips very fast as he did in that vid, you could be doing more damage with jabroga

th0rnz
Apr 5, 2008, 07:29 AM
Wow both classes videos are insane, but especially the fighmaster which I wasn't too sure of. I'm a fighgunner now so it will be cool to mix in S-rank axes with my double saber, and the tornado dance through TD was genius.

TheFonz
Apr 5, 2008, 08:36 AM
On 2008-04-05 05:05, ne1first wrote:

To add to the list of handicaps (LV120, no S ranks, no npcs, etc), also notice that in the JP version, Gaozorans are melee friendly [again], while in the US version they are melee resistant. It is as if there was twice as many Gaos.

Saying that... in a mission that is all about jabroga and a little bit of small fry killing, fighmaster -should- win and CAST also has a little advantage with Grom/Cataract because it clears the last room very fast while beasts have to "work it". Nanoblast is a bit of a gamble, if Fakis decides to flips very fast as he did in that vid, you could be doing more damage with jabroga



Very true, and I'd probably be convinced enough to say that the FM had the overall advantage, if you put everything into consideration. About the Grom/Cataract, whilst it definitely sped things up, judging from the FM's fighting abilities from the first half of the vid, I honestly think it didn't have that much of a difference. It probably shaved around 10 seconds; without the SUV it would've been the case of Freeze Trap G + Jabroga, maybe two of those. Also, I don't think whether having an NPC or not really made a difference.

I'm pretty sure Gaozorans are exactly the same for both US and JP versions of the game. Both FF and FM were doing roughly the same damage with Jabroga, with only a significant difference occurring when the FF used Assault Crush and FM with Majarra, which is probably down to Weapon ATP / Skill lvl though again a big advantage for the FM. With all that in consideration, however I still think the FM had an overall advantage but not too much of one to render its 2 minute difference irrelevant.

At the end of the day, I personally think that under most circumstances the Fighmaster will potentially be quicker to solo with than a Fortefighter and that's simply due to its speed and only slightly lower stats.

Yunfa
Apr 5, 2008, 08:42 AM
Impressive videos...I must live up to my Azn heritage by one day becoming as good as the FM in the video! >8D

Tianna
Apr 5, 2008, 09:31 AM
OMG and DAMN...lol
And to think I was proud of my cast Fortegunner clearing System Defense B in just under 3 minutes searching for FOI(legitimate reason for speed runs)
I am now a little more interested in Gunmaster class for my character.
Thanks for the vids http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

ne1first
Apr 5, 2008, 09:35 AM
On 2008-04-05 06:36, TheFonz wrote:
I'm pretty sure Gaozorans are exactly the same for both US and JP versions of the game.


Oh I can definetely confirm there is a difference. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gifNot sure why or even if this difference is intentional, but you can see it very clearly:

When the JP guy hits pannons + Gao with majarra, he does roughly the same damage on both. That means the Gaozoran is not melee resistant in that version.

Now look at the english version, Jabroga does around 2800-3000 on Gaos while around 5900 on everything else. Melee resistant.

[Unless this was one of the special properties of master classes: "Ignore resists". I've never heard of this though]

DreXxiN
Apr 5, 2008, 12:54 PM
This is pretty sick, lol

Zorafim
Apr 5, 2008, 01:02 PM
'kay, yeah, that sold me.

HienkyakuX
Apr 5, 2008, 01:27 PM
Can't think of a place were u can't get S rank other than event missions were u net to shot at stuff to get key/door open/spawn to get S. But other than that; that's only FM and MF how have that problem

Neith
Apr 5, 2008, 01:31 PM
One thing i noticed is that Gaozorans aren't melee resistant on JP PSU. They shouldn't be on US version, but it still hasn't been fixed. So, expect a little longer for runs on our version.

And no, still not enough reason to go Fighmaster

Zarode
Apr 5, 2008, 01:57 PM
Yup, I wanna be a Gunmaster now.

Batman2414
Apr 5, 2008, 02:33 PM
On 2008-04-05 01:37, Middle wrote:
why they cannot get an S-rank on some missions soloing? it was said in the other thread i think.




You have to have 3 people to s rank td. Sega is just trying to scare people into not picking the new classes with their pp usage and won't be able to s rank missions jive. Master classes will be superior to forte classes. Speed kills.

pikachief
Apr 5, 2008, 03:18 PM
On 2008-04-05 12:33, Batman2414 wrote:

On 2008-04-05 01:37, Middle wrote:
why they cannot get an S-rank on some missions soloing? it was said in the other thread i think.




You have to have 3 people to s rank td. Sega is just trying to scare people into not picking the new classes with their pp usage and won't be able to s rank missions jive. Master classes will be superior to forte classes. Speed kills.

]

No. u need a handgun in some runs!

chaoskila
Apr 5, 2008, 03:44 PM
so they can do that whole mission by them self in 6 minutes
about the time for me to get a party [badddd techer]
WHATS THE POINT OF PARTYING?!?!?!?!?

Syanaide
Apr 5, 2008, 03:53 PM
I was worried about GM with no Grenade Launcher, but I'm pretty much sold no questions asked. Time to continue my Laser bullets.

amtalx
Apr 5, 2008, 05:45 PM
Its good to see gunners shitting all over everything again. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

MelanyKoura
Apr 5, 2008, 06:05 PM
Something tells me that in the future, missions are going to be engineered specificly to not allow Master jobs to get S-grade on missions while letting hybrids/Fortes to fare just fine. That's just my take on the whole "Masters won't be able to solo some missions and get S-grade" statement.

Zarode
Apr 5, 2008, 07:03 PM
Something tells me, those missions that are made to be done as a party, are the ones that you cannot achieve S rank in, by yourself.


See what I did there?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zarode on 2008-04-05 17:03 ]</font>

MelanyKoura
Apr 5, 2008, 07:06 PM
Yay for repeating what I said in a more blunt fasion? =P

Zarode
Apr 5, 2008, 07:23 PM
On 2008-04-05 17:06, MelanyKoura wrote:
Yay for repeating what I said in a more blunt fasion? =P



Noooo, taking account of what you said, that means that as a Fortefighter, alone, I could solo a mission and get an s-rank. Any mission.

Sure, it's bending your words around, but that's how the world works.

Cry0
Apr 6, 2008, 04:27 AM
this video makes me want fighmaster now!

TheFonz
Apr 6, 2008, 09:38 AM
On 2008-04-05 07:35, ne1first wrote:

Oh I can definetely confirm there is a difference. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gifNot sure why or even if this difference is intentional, but you can see it very clearly:

When the JP guy hits pannons + Gao with majarra, he does roughly the same damage on both. That means the Gaozoran is not melee resistant in that version.

Now look at the english version, Jabroga does around 2800-3000 on Gaos while around 5900 on everything else. Melee resistant.

[Unless this was one of the special properties of master classes: "Ignore resists". I've never heard of this though]



Having carefully studied both vids (:P) you're absolutely correct. I'm probably wrong but Jabroga probably ignores resistance to some degree, which may explain why both FM and FF were doing roughly the same damage to Gaos with it.

So with this in mind, it has actually made the time difference between the two classes even more minimal. I did the cool thing of studying the vids even further and noting down the times it took both classes to defeat each of the Gao's, just to get an idea what the "real" difference in total run time is - (I started the clock the moment each class attacked the Gao and ended it when the killing blow hit):

Fortefighter

1st Gao: 16s
2nd Gao: 16s
3rd Gao: 20s
Final Gao pack: 28s

Fighmaster

1st Gao: 8s
2nd Gao: 10s (I stopped the clock when the FM ignores the Gao and started as soon as it put its focus back on it)
3rd Gao: 10s
Final Gao pack: 4s (Due to SUV + Jabroga)
---

So what I did with this information is calculate the difference in time between the two classes and added the total calculated time to the FM's final run time.

Difference: 48 seconds
FM total run time: (3m 54s + 48s) = 4m 42s

Compare that to the FF's time,

FF total run time: 5m 34s
Difference in time: (5m 34s - 4m 42s) = 52s

So with these adjustments, the FM is only 52 seconds faster than the FF. Although not a completely fair adjustment, since the FM may have defeated the Gao's quicker than the FF even with melee resistance (and my adjustment basically implies that the FM kills Gao's at the exact rate the FF does), this hopefully balances out any unfair advantages/disadvantages each class has.

So with the FM's +20 lvls, +5 c-lvl and S-ranks being countered with the FF being a Beast, using Chiki and Nanoblasting, I think we can come up with a somewhat fair conclusion. Either way, I think the only way we're going to see a proper comparison is if one guy does a speed run as FM, then changes class as FF and does it again!