Online: Has PSU become far too easy?

[zeroguy518]

In the past few weeks I've made a few topics about various aspects of the game and most people have been saying that it is far too easy. I personally agree with them and am curious if any of you don't play as often or if you play more because of this.

[Randomness]

The party missions, areas where speed counts, those still have some challenge...

Random kill everything runs are far too easy, though.

[Legendria]

Too easy? No.

Easier than before? Obviously.

Is the game's fun factor increased or decreased? Increased, as evidenced by the ID's passing 81000 on 360.

That's 2000 subscriptions within 2 months for a niche game, kiddos.

[zeroguy518]

Didn't It get to about 40,000 in 3-4 months or so, compared to 80,000 in over a year? And my problem is other than there being significantly less challenge is that (on X360 at least) People always run one mission over and over again. Right now I think the only thing you can easily get a party for (other than PA runs and buff parties) are WB or that new parum east run.

[Zael]

Way too easy.

[Legendria]

On 2008-04-05 19:21, zeroguy518 wrote:
Didn't It get to about 40,000 in 3-4 months or so, compared to 80,000 in over a year? And my problem is other than there being significantly less challenge is that (on X360 at least) People always run one mission over and over again. Right now I think the only thing you can easily get a party for (other than PA runs and buff parties) are WB or that new parum east run.



Well, no one can argue that White Beast is being whored out, but PSU has always been about the hotspots. It used to be Seabed, and before that, it was De Ragan. Nothing has changed about that.

Also, with the exception of some very out of the way missions that drop absolutely NOTHING (Lab Recovery? ), there's usually one party in it on Uni 1 or 2. People still run Dancing Birds, people still run Electronic Brain, there are people on Plains Overlord, Sleeping Warriors, Dual Sentinel, True Darkness, basically anything that holds something of value.

It's not as bleak as you stated, you just don't get around much.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

The game has always been easy. AoI and shit didn't make it any easier, it just made it less stupidly annoying, because that's what original PSU was (e.g. needing a nearly-full party to do any mission in under an hour [exaggeration, but you get the point: solo wasn't an option for anyone except fG, and even then it took way too long to be enjoyable at all], certain missions still taking far too long even in a full group, rares being stupidly rare, Meseta taking too long to accumulate, etc.).

It seems some people unfortunately mistook these factors for difficulty.

[zeroguy518]

On 2008-04-05 19:29, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
The game has always been easy. AoI and shit didn't make it any easier, it just made it less stupidly annoying, because that's what original PSU was (e.g. needing a nearly-full party to do any mission in under an hour [exaggeration, but you get the point: solo wasn't an option for anyone except fG, and even then it took way too long to be enjoyable at all], certain missions still taking far too long even in a full group, rares being stupidly rare, Meseta taking too long to accumulate, etc.).

It seems some people unfortunately mistook these factors for difficulty.



In that case I preferred the annoying one, does anyone know(I doubt it) if there are any rumors of PSO becoming backwards compatible any time soon)

[Shake]

On 2008-04-05 19:29, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
The game has always been easy. AoI and shit didn't make it any easier, it just made it less stupidly annoying, because that's what original PSU was (e.g. needing a nearly-full party to do any mission in under an hour [exaggeration, but you get the point: solo wasn't an option for anyone except fG, and even then it took way too long to be enjoyable at all], certain missions still taking far too long even in a full group, rares being stupidly rare, Meseta taking too long to accumulate, etc.).

It seems some people unfortunately mistook these factors for difficulty.



Seconded/Agreed/Indeed-ed.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2008-04-05 19:33, zeroguy518 wrote:
In that case I preferred the annoying one, does anyone know(I doubt it) if there are any rumors of PSO becoming backwards compatible any time soon)

By your definition, though, PSO is even "easier" than PSU in its current state. Or is being able to block every enemy in the game 100% of the time considered difficult?

But really, no, if you want PSO, you have to go play offline.

[zeroguy518]

I really just want to play it for nostalgia not for any challenge.

[DraginHikari]

Meh... this game wasn't designed with difficulty in mind it's just the kind of game it is.

[jcm5]

its been easy since day 1. x,x,x,x,y,y,y,x,x,x,x,y,y,y,y

[Syanaide]

Never been tough, just tedious. It also takes a lot of luck to make money. (Synth high percentages, get rares with crappy drop rates.)

[Poncho_Jr]

It depends on how you define "easy"

White Beast with a full party. Yes
Any of the Megid spamming monsters by yourself.... No

Teeheehee.

[Noblewine]

No it still has some challenges and a couple of surprises.

[Shou]

Yes, but hopefully in the next expansion ST will make it harder. *puts a vote in for nerfing the SH** out of hunters* http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[nooblet]

i think the lag causes the game to be more harder than it is. its annoying when you switch to your healing wand just to stand then waiting for the game to catch up.

[beatrixkiddo]

Quit playing PS2 ;o

[F-Gattaca]

I think I'm starting to become used to the easymode crowd. I've gotten a taste of Ryukros, HSM S, and Egg Thieves S. All of those seem like a real job to do right--to get an S on S, it requires all the team mates to be on the ball. They have the capacity to punish.

And yet I'm not surprised to find people insisting the game is easy, or even easier than before.

Nothing is ever admitted to be "challenging" or "hard" by the easymode crowd, it's always "annoying" or "tedious." Yet the proposals I've seen to make the game harder wouldn't do anything different for the game than what ST has tried to appease the easymode crowd.

Providing mission ranks with monsters above the current level cap, putting in traps/turrets that will utterly own you if you make one false move, leaving no room for error by creating missions that negate the usefulness of scape dolls ... and still the claims of PSU being easy ("and always has been easy!") continue.

Yet what are the proposals? Nerfing hunters/rangers/forces? That'd only work to create the same result that buffing monsters or providing higher level monsters would. The claims of easymode would continue to persist from unsatisfied hardcore gamers, and the rest of the player base would only be upset by it ... yet this is what the hardcore crowd wants to see?

Really, what ST has tried and what the easymode crowd suggests as fixes fall under the same thing: Nintendo Hard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NintendoHard).

So what would assuage the claims of easymode? Especially something that would not fall under some sort of fake difficulty?


On 2008-04-05 21:01, Noblewine wrote:
No it still has some challenges and a couple of surprises.



This is how I honestly feel. The easymode crowd can tell me I suck at PSU (heck, they've done it before) but I've found some real challenges in this game, Nintendo Hard or no.


On 2008-04-05 22:04, beatrixkiddo wrote:
Quit playing PS2 ;o



That emoticon looks like this to me. (http://www.funnyhub.com/pictures/img/cookie-monster.jpg)

Just with one eye winking.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: F-Gattaca on 2008-04-05 22:18 ]</font>

[Ahkaskar]

On 2008-04-05 22:05, F-Gattaca wrote:
Nothing is ever admitted to be "challenging" or "hard" by the easymode crowd, it's always "annoying" or "tedious." Yet the proposals I've seen to make the game harder wouldn't do anything different for the game than what ST has tried to appease the easymode crowd.

Providing mission ranks with monsters above the current level cap, putting in traps/turrets that will utterly own you if you make one false move, leaving no room for error by creating missions that negate the usefulness of scape dolls ... and still the claims of PSU being easy ("and always has been easy!") continue.
QFT. I'm not quite sure how instant death or outright unforgiving missions translates to "too easy".

[Legendria]

On 2008-04-05 22:17, Ahkaskar wrote:

On 2008-04-05 22:05, F-Gattaca wrote:
Nothing is ever admitted to be "challenging" or "hard" by the easymode crowd, it's always "annoying" or "tedious." Yet the proposals I've seen to make the game harder wouldn't do anything different for the game than what ST has tried to appease the easymode crowd.

Providing mission ranks with monsters above the current level cap, putting in traps/turrets that will utterly own you if you make one false move, leaving no room for error by creating missions that negate the usefulness of scape dolls ... and still the claims of PSU being easy ("and always has been easy!") continue.
QFT. I'm not quite sure how instant death or outright unforgiving missions translates to "too easy".



You have to face facts.

After dealing with PSO, damn near EVERYTHING is ezmode. PSO EP 2 crossed the line between difficult and unnervingly, mind-numbingly stupid hard. You basically had to play the game on rails to avoid the storms of 100% proc Megids and one-hit kill physical attacks. EP4 tried to retract this major failure with some mechanics changing, and everyone simply avoided EP2 games.

I'm part of this crowd of former PSOers. Compared to PSO, PSU is, indeed, pathetic in terms of difficulty.

However, I believe this is a positive, not a negative. Games are supposed to be fun, not stressful chores that never deliver tangible results.

I can honestly say that if I had to grind Sleeping Warriors S2 for 6 months to get a Psychowand board, and then have it fail (under old synth percents), I'd tell everyone and their mother to avoid this game like it's AIDS.

Let's remember the hardships of PSO and be mindful not to ask them to be revisted upon us.

[Xaeris]

Far too easy. Look, I'm not asking for Dante Must Die mode here; I just want a mission where I feel like I'm bringing friends along for actual help, not just the pleasure of their company.

[Shinko]

Well i think its always been easy but it still some what enjoyable.... my think is that things get bored way too fast. and lack of people who play at night on pc and ps2

[Zorafim]

Well, I solo most of the time, so I suppose that does translate to an easy co-op game... However, I still feel that any difficulty the game has left, or that the game can give us, is a cheap difficulty. You can't really react to some things that are thrown at you, since it's either a 100% chance of hitting (those bats in the HIVE, flying at you. I still don't see how this is dodgable. Also, I don't think you can dodge a dragon's or Fakis' tail swipe if you're within range), or don't really give you time to dodge (Polveras punch faster than you can run, making that always hit. Also, their stomp has enough of a radius that I'm not sure you can get out of it in time.). Not to mention, swarms of enemies throwing high modifying simple techs at you (diga dodgeball with vandas tends to end in trimate spam, and barta in Neudaiz tends to be unforgiving).

If the game's an action RPG, it has more RPG than action. Stats matter more than skill, it seems. Maybe this will change with master classes? Seeing how you can attack fast enough, you may be able to position yourself better most of the time...

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2008-04-05 22:27, Legendria wrote:
Compared to PSO, PSU is, indeed, pathetic in terms of difficulty.
Because blocking every single enemy 100% of the time was totally difficult. I could do this with my FOmar on BB. A FOmar. And if I did a PB combo with Mylla and Youlla, I'd even block Goran Detonators (without it I'd get hit for like 50 damage, oh no). Yes, on Ultimate.



Towers was difficult? Like hell it was.

Step 1: Frozen Shooter.
Step 2: You win.

PW4 (or 3, whichever had 20 floors of towers) wasn't difficult either. Tons of high-level Megid flying all over and enemies who can one-hit you for no apparently reason wasn't difficult, it was just annoying. You didn't beat PW4 with skill, you beat it by either spamming cheap ranger weapons or by being extremely lucky to not get hit by too many flying Megids.

But it wasn't difficult. The only thing truly difficult on PSO was Challenge Mode, and even then only Episode 2.

Likewise, the only difficult missions on PSU are Bruce, HSM, Egg Thieves, Urgent Orders, and stuff like that.


I would say PSU is on "easymode," but I think that's really where it belongs. It's a casual game (if you think otherwise, you're just wrong), not meant to be hyper-competitive. That said, more things like Challnge Mode, or even more missions like Bruce would be greatly welcomed.

[haruna]

Things seem to be a little less generous. I remember when White Beast first came out. I was finding Sanzus and made Togehas and Serafi-Senbas pretty often.

Now, not so much.

Of the S-rank materials, Cladorian and Hapotite are easy. I've got a nice stash. Catilium? Everyone's going berzerk for that junk.

[Jife_Jifremok]

If you want challenge and skill in your action RPG, go play Monster Hunter (preferably a PSP iteration). That game was built for it. PSU was hardly built for much other than easymode, cheapness and annoyance. And no, merely adjusting the numbers (again) won't make things any more fun. Still a huge step up from PSO though. Yikes. That game was mainly hard from shitty controls and awkward battle mechanics!

[Zorafim]

On 2008-04-06 12:30, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
If you want challenge and skill in your action RPG, go play Monster Hunter (preferably a PSP iteration).



I've really gotta start playing that game...

[F-Gattaca]

On 2008-04-05 22:17, Ahkaskar wrote:
QFT. I'm not quite sure how instant death or outright unforgiving missions translates to "too easy".


Heh. Thanks.

Yeah, that kind of attitude by the easymode crowd goes against logic. Even if cheap tricks are Nintendo Hard and amount to a faked difficulty level, it's still an added measure of difficulty. And yet--at least for people who complain about the game being too easy. After all ... we've got Legendia, Jifremonk and Fuzzy all saying that PSU is an IMPROVEMENT over PSO--or at least, in a good place--for being easier (which seems like a contested estimation ... ).

I think the easymode crowd that complains just wants a fun challenge, yet don't know what they want out of such a thing ... considering some of the suggestions they've made to get the fun they seek.

That's why, at this point, my attitude towards the easymode crowd is "Okay, if you hate it so much and love to complain how easy the game is, let's hear your ideas. How would you fix this problem?"

It doesn't seem like anyone's taken me up on that challenge, though. Or if they did provide ideas, they're the same old Nintendo Hard tricks. But I've been gone for months due to various reasons--I've not seen these forums in some time. Maybe someone DID post some good ideas ... no one's mentioned or linked to them, though.

The article I linked to about Nintendo Hard easily demonstrates that Sonic Team isn't retarded or anything for resorting to cheap tricks to make the game harder. It's a common thing among game developers, and depending on the type of game trying to add something that is truly challenging and fun and not just Nintendo Hard is not only extremely difficult, but highly subjective.

[Fox_Makenshi]

On 2008-04-06 12:36, Zorafim wrote:

On 2008-04-06 12:30, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
If you want challenge and skill in your action RPG, go play Monster Hunter (preferably a PSP iteration).



I've really gotta start playing that game...



Yes. You do. The learning curve is tremendously steep in some areas though, like when you fight your first wyvern. I actually quit the game once when I got to that part lol. If you ever do start playing just remember this: Blocking and dodge-rolling will save your life almost every time.

Love,
Fox Makenshi



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Fox_Makenshi on 2008-04-06 13:24 ]</font>

[Zorafim]

Well, making it easier to dodge, and making a failed dodge more unforgiving, would be a step up. I think that's how Monster Hunter does it. It makes the game somewhat difficult without being cheap.
And thus, I suggest the dodge button.

[SStrikerR]

I think this game's a bit to easy. Seriously, everyone's first few eggs theives/bruce/hsm runs sucked bad, but once people knew what to do the mission became stupidly easy. Every other mission, save for a few, were always easy. The only semi-hard ones were only hard if you were soloing, and the mission had a lot of megid spam. Still easy, all you need to do is dodge lol. My main is only level 90 and yet I can solo a bunch of S2 missions in under 45 mins...all that takes is patience, not skill.

[EMPYREAN]

its not WAY TO EASY, but it is so easy that i find this game boring now so i hardy play this game these days.

[Fox_Makenshi]

On 2008-04-06 13:26, Zorafim wrote:
Well, making it easier to dodge, and making a failed dodge more unforgiving, would be a step up. I think that's how Monster Hunter does it. It makes the game somewhat difficult without being cheap.
And thus, I suggest the dodge button.



Exactly. This is why PSU needs faster monsters and a dodge-roll button lol.

Love,
Fox Makenshi

[Xaeris]

On 2008-04-06 13:12, F-Gattaca wrote:


I think the easymode crowd that complains just wants a fun challenge, yet don't know what they want out of such a thing ... considering some of the suggestions they've made to get the fun they seek.

That's why, at this point, my attitude towards the easymode crowd is "Okay, if you hate it so much and love to complain how easy the game is, let's hear your ideas. How would you fix this problem?"

It doesn't seem like anyone's taken me up on that challenge, though. Or if they did provide ideas, they're the same old Nintendo Hard tricks. But I've been gone for months due to various reasons--I've not seen these forums in some time. Maybe someone DID post some good ideas ... no one's mentioned or linked to them, though.



It's not so much difficulty I'm looking for; it's substance. If the enemies in the current highest ranks of the game had so little HP that they could be killed in a single use of a PA, you certainly wouldn't object to the idea of raising their HP, would you? Well, maybe you would, I have no idea.

As the game is now, we have three ways (skills, bullets, techs) to fight the enemy. We have nine types in which those three ways are combined and/or emphasized. And yet, inexplicably, with all this game's enemies and maps and status effects, the fortefighter reigns supreme because there almost nothing you cannot effectively tear your way through with sheer damage.

We can freeze enemies, we can silence enemies, we can nerf their stats. All I want from Sonic Team, is to throw us some enemies where it's more practical to those instead of mindlessly spam Majarra. Is it really so much that I want to make full use of the variety we have in our abilities? Is that really so Nintendo Hard?

[DEM_CIG]

PSU has become to easy with large parties, but i still play it alot when i can. I play it so i can just hang out and talk to my friends who play.

[Zarode]

PSU has been easy since the release of Hybrid/Forte classes. Or at least, it has been for ME. :/

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2008-04-06 13:12, F-Gattaca wrote:

That's why, at this point, my attitude towards the easymode crowd is "Okay, if you hate it so much and love to complain how easy the game is, let's hear your ideas. How would you fix this problem?"

It doesn't seem like anyone's taken me up on that challenge, though.
While I can't speak for the rest, let me say this:

PSU is on easymode. However, I am very glad it is on easymode, because it's a casual game, and by no means do I want them to increase the overall difficulty (adding things like PSO's challenge mode [which required precise teamwork in order to complete, more of a mental difficulty than a skill-oriented one] would be a welcome change, but the core of the gameplay is very easy, as it should be for this type of game).

[Legendria]

Monster Hunter is ezmode too, get a Lance with long reach (Ogre Tusk, Black Dragon Spear) and you can't lose.

[Jainsea]

Most of its pretty easy, and if you have a full party, pfffff, easy street.
I find that its not that its too easy or what not, just kinda ummm, getting bland. Content is just getting pumped out too slowly, and then its only additional ranks like S2 to old ones. I just come on now
to talk to friends and awhile back was helping low levels at White Beast C-A. The only time it may get hard is if megid spamming and or soloing.

[Arika]

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=173221&forum=20&13
see the link

[Ahkaskar]

On 2008-04-06 13:12, F-Gattaca wrote:

On 2008-04-05 22:17, Ahkaskar wrote:
QFT. I'm not quite sure how instant death or outright unforgiving missions translates to "too easy".


Heh. Thanks.

Yeah, that kind of attitude by the easymode crowd goes against logic. Even if cheap tricks are Nintendo Hard and amount to a faked difficulty level, it's still an added measure of difficulty. And yet--at least for people who complain about the game being too easy. After all ... we've got Legendia, Jifremonk and Fuzzy all saying that PSU is an IMPROVEMENT over PSO--or at least, in a good place--for being easier (which seems like a contested estimation ... ).
I think I "could" agree to that, too. Just bear in mind I never got past 40, since my saves would "conveniently" corrupt right around then. After the second time, I didn't really feel much inclination to keep trying.

In PSO, I found I wanted to play my CAST fairly often, just so I could learn where the traps where. If I played my force, I often found I'd walk head-long into a trap without knowing it. Eventually, I had some idea of when to throw the trap vision, but it still wasn't a perfect science.

Combine the insta-death explosives with a lack of mobility whenever you did anything and it wasn't really very much fun to play solo all the time. The style of the monsters, the levels and the different take on the action RPG were what kept me poking at it. Well, mostly the monsters. I always wanted to try to replicate their style in art.

[Aries2384]

This game is easy easy. Fortunately, ST adds the blessings of missions like HSM S, Egg Thieves, and BRUCE S. Fun and challenging. Besides those missions, yes, this game is obscenely easy.

[Yusaku_Kudou]

No, it's easy, but it's not too easy. I keep things somewhat challenging by playing newman fighter/gunner and CAST fortetecher. Except being a newman fighter used to be much more difficult than it is now. I think they gave me too much ATP, being over 1300 now.

[Rashiid]

On 2008-04-07 01:33, Yusaku_Kudou wrote:
No, it's easy, but it's not too easy. I keep things somewhat challenging by playing newman fighter/gunner and CAST fortetecher. Except being a newman fighter used to be much more difficult than it is now. I think they gave me too much ATP, being over 1300 now.



But that's just foolish. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

[panzer_unit]

Anything that makes PSU "hard" really just makes it irritating. If there was some mission that hurt like crawling a mile across broken glass but there were GUARANTEED RARES involved I'd sure as hell do that. As it is, it's a lottery. It's not worthwhile to suffer that much when you've only got some small chance of getting a valuable drop.

One change that might be fun is only selling high-end healing items like Trimate, Photon Charge, and Scape Doll at in-town item vendors. Then HP and energy conservation would be a really big deal like they should be... you can't just rush head-first into a pack of monsters and trimate your way out of it.

[Akaimizu]

There's plenty of challenges for certain class humans and newmans trying to solo a mission. But it's definitely super easy for a full party, these days. When S2 bosses die within 8-10 seconds; there's probably a bit of an issue with difficulty.

I've seen Fakis drop before he even thought of a Meteor ability. A winged demon, get pegged in the wings to drop down within 5 or so seconds only to get the Jabroga seconds later and he dies right away. While that's a sign of good teamwork, and it's cool to look at; even the most insanely well placed teamwork and combination of quadruple Photon Blasts in PSO never destroyed a game like what we can do now. And to make matters worse, we're still far from maxing our selected PA arts. Imagine what happens then?

So yeah, while I'm stoked for the lesser pain a GT player like myself will have when Techs and Bullets get a levelling speed boost; I definitely can't wait for bigger and badder mobs to arrive. Unless I solo certain parts, there's a bit of a lack of that *bringing down a titan* in the game. One of the reasons I'm one of the people that seriously like certain mobs in Moatoob. They have a bit of that feeling.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-04-07 08:05 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-04-07 08:03, Akaimizu wrote:
even the most insanely well placed teamwork and combination of quadruple Photon Blasts in PSO never destroyed a game like what we can do now.

I think Vol Opt would say differently... against high% shotguns and slicers, backed up by buffs from a 4-way PB blast, he would be lucky to make it out of the cut-scene where he showed up.

[Legendria]

On 2008-04-07 09:03, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2008-04-07 08:03, Akaimizu wrote:
even the most insanely well placed teamwork and combination of quadruple Photon Blasts in PSO never destroyed a game like what we can do now.

I think Vol Opt would say differently... against high% shotguns and slicers, backed up by buffs from a 4-way PB blast, he would be lucky to make it out of the cut-scene where he showed up.


4 Zanbas (actually, any non-standard zerk weapon), he doesn't get more than two spins in second form lol.

[Kylie]

Well, I think the game is too easy when I can stand to solo a mission. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif Because if a mission has any difficulty to it, then I can't do it alone. Not that I can't, but I just get bored if things take too long to kill. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_confused.gif That said, I don't wish it was that way. I don't want to solo, and I don't want people not playing because the game's too easy.

[Akaimizu]

On 2008-04-07 09:03, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2008-04-07 08:03, Akaimizu wrote:
even the most insanely well placed teamwork and combination of quadruple Photon Blasts in PSO never destroyed a game like what we can do now.

I think Vol Opt would say differently... against high% shotguns and slicers, backed up by buffs from a 4-way PB blast, he would be lucky to make it out of the cut-scene where he showed up.


Ok. I stand corrected. You just had to bring Vol Opt into this. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Yeah. Well...if you don't count PSO's arguably easiest boss. Entertaining, but easy. Funny how, for most folks, he was the boss that most surprised people after facing De Roi Le. I don't remember if I ever Vol Opt down quite that fast, though. Fast, but not insanely fast.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-04-07 10:02 ]</font>

[Sol_B4dguy]

It's easy, but it's a casual easy, which is nice in a game involving hunting for rarz and such. Most of the people who suggest something to amp up the difficulty are just making it the annoyingly cheap sort of tough and not the genuine difficulty they really want.

That said, bosses on the highest available difficulty dying in seconds bring up a SERIOUS issue concerning PvE balance, but that's a discussion for another thread.

[Seority]

It may be easy to obtain certian items or reach certain levels, and even pass some missions. I wait for the updates that bring out more things to acheive and stuff.
My point: easy to get good at it, difficult to have it all.
So this is more of a scavenger game then a fighting one. Yay rps!

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-04-07 10:00, Akaimizu wrote:
Ok. I stand corrected. You just had to bring Vol Opt into this. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Yeah. Well...if you don't count PSO's arguably easiest boss. Entertaining, but easy. Funny how, for most folks, he was the boss that most surprised people after facing De Roi Le. I don't remember if I ever Vol Opt down quite that fast, though. Fast, but not insanely fast.


I remember hitting for 3500 points with 50% element Crush Bullets... I forget if that was buff was level 30 Shifta, or level 50 from a 4-way Mi&You photon blast. Anyway you get the point, any multi-target boss ASPLODED when you had a team capable of hitting that hard. Sil Dragon, De Rol, Vol Opt. Oh snap, it would have been nice to get a Charge special behind that too.

Even back in v1 I had a 60% dark Charge Diska and tore all monsters a new one doing like 1200 per shot. Maybe some Ep2 stuff was really hard but Dreamcast sure wasn't... there was an incredible difference between the 'haves' and 'have-nots' however. In PSU that's not the case, the biggest single damage difference is using proper-element (regardless of %) attacks vs neutral.

[MzHitman]

I think it's gotten easier, but my biggest problem with the game is it getting laggier. I used to play this game (somewhat obsessively) and I took a break and was playing COD4 and Rainbow Six Vegas 2, I've tried coming back to PSU, but I'm having a real hard time because it just seems soooo slowwww.

[majan]

this game is as difficult as you make it. Ive got news for you, if you spam white beast with a party of 6 level 100+ people even working at half efficiency...what chance do those poor olgohmons and kakawanes stand against such an onslaught? now if you want to run to rykros with just 2 or 3 of you all,maybe an NPC or two,the game gets a little more stingy. go try to face maggas maghana with a party of 2 or 3 people. sure it can be done with gunners but what if you dont have gunners?

there's plenty of challenge in this game. the people saying there isn't any are just looking at the massive stat boosts and status upgrades that have been going around lately and not paying any attention to anything besides the popular mission at that moment...so far all the parties I ran bruce's dungeon with somebody died at least once in each of the times I was running with the groups. all you need to do is play the game for yourself and not the popular mission and youll find a challenge. actually hunt for that kazarod instead of just making 14 mill doing white beast and buying one. go to desert goliath and hunt for your shigga baret. it's like going through a fighting game using the same X plus B combo that pops someone into the air then knocks them down. of course thats easy and boring.

mix it up,try a different class,or try actually becoming skilled at the class you are playing rather than just doing wat it takes to get thruogh each mission. reconfigure your pallete to be a little more flexible. forces reconfigure your pallete to allow flexibility while also being able to heal on the fly.

like I said its as challenging as you make it. my advice is to quit running everywhere in groups of 6 max levelled characters. the point of being that high a level is for the game nto to be as challenging as it would be for someone whos coming up the ladder.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Regarding PSO bosses:

Dragon: Spam anything with berserk and he dies extremely fast (especially slicers). Also 50% hit Charge Vulcans.
De Rol Le: Rafoie spam, zerk spam when he lands (which was frequently), 50% hit Charge Vulcans. Also, a high A. Beast Snow Queen would decimate him in seconds. Oh, and a berserk S-Rank Needle, that also killed him in seconds.
Vol Opt: Already covered. Also, Gizonde and/or Needle spam killed the first form way fast.
Falz: He took a while, but only because he had multiple forms and was often out of attack range. Again, berserk weapons and 50% hit Charge Vulcans.

Barba Ray: See De Rol Le.
Zol Dragon: See Dragon. Only very slightly more difficult due to his extra attacks. Still died fast to berserk slicer spam.
Gal Gryphon: A little different since he flies a bunch, but mostly the same as Dragon. Only a challenge in, errr, challenge mode.
Olga Flow: Again, easy. Just spam the broken weapon specials and dodge his attacks. Divine Punishment was annoying, but easy to dodge if you knew what you were doing.

Saint Million/Shambertain/Kondreiu: Very easy, just spam berserk/charge again. Only "difficult" part was if you had TOO MUCH HP, then his tornados would combo you to death every time.


That said, the PSU bosses aren't any more difficult on average.

[Akaimizu]

To a degree, but it looks like with PSO you often needed those greater weapons somebody with just 800-1000 hours are likely to not have. In this game, seems like this stuff is accomplished in much less time.

Of course, on the defense of PSU, we haven't seen everything yet. I do expect some bigger and badder stuff to come along. We're just at a point where teams are currently overpowered to what's available without reaching a true end game. Probably the big difference between the structure of PSO and PSU, where in PSO the mobs were generally already available for the true endgame, so many teams had a challenge up until the end regardless of using their best available equipment.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-04-07 15:08 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-04-07 14:56, Akaimizu wrote:
To a degree, but it looks like with PSO you often needed those greater weapons somebody with just 800-1000 hours are likely to not have. In this game, seems like this stuff is accomplished in much less time.

Actually I like that about PSU - rare weapons just aren't that important. I don't need to find some specific rifle just to have the all-important Incapacitate attack, get one particular launcher for rapid-fire dragon killing wiht Berzerk grenades, or one really specific tech disk to get my attack at exactly level 20.

All I have to worry about is grinds which are relatively unimportant.

[Andy1423]

I still think monster would be more fun to hunt if they were slower but had a little more HP. 50% or the enemies just bum rush you, the gameplay ,as far as enemy pace, was way better in PSO.

Or at least scale the monster HP to the NUMBER OF PLAYERS IN THE ROOM!!! That would make the S2 solo way different from an S2 full party. More mesta drops, why not scale the enemy lvl and difficulty as well. Pretty obvious fix in my opinion.

[Rust]

On 2008-04-08 07:25, Andy1423 wrote:
Or at least scale the monster HP to the NUMBER OF PLAYERS IN THE ROOM!!! That would make the S2 solo way different from an S2 full party. More mesta drops, why not scale the enemy lvl and difficulty as well. Pretty obvious fix in my opinion.


Agreed.

[Akaimizu]

Sorry Rust. But I have to comment. That sig is hilarious.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-04-07 13:56, majan wrote:
this game is as difficult as you make it. Ive got news for you, if you spam white beast with a party of 6 level 100+ people even working at half efficiency...what chance do those poor olgohmons and kakawanes stand against such an onslaught? now if you want to run to rykros with just 2 or 3 of you all,maybe an NPC or two,the game gets a little more stingy. go try to face maggas maghana with a party of 2 or 3 people. sure it can be done with gunners but what if you dont have gunners?

Even if you're doing the popular stuff, how about speeding up your runs by SPLITTING YOUR TEAM of level 130 bad-asses when there's a fork in the road. It's not like you need to tag everything for the XP, right?

[Arada]

Far too easy ?

I say yes.

Watch that Gunmaster go through White Beasts S in 6 minutes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4F5qx2yT8w). Or True Darkness S2 in 4 minutes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8657t0Spm0).

Or just watch that Fighmaster go through True Darkness S2 in just 3 minutes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3eyIjc2UVY) !

[trucido]

If i can solo any hive mission by myself then yeah a little too easy if u ask me-

true darkness takes me less than fifteen minutes to solo as a Ff....proof

[Inazuma]

i agree w/ the scaled monster difficulty. but also scale the item drop rate. 6 player parties should have very difficult monsters w/ very high drop rates. and solo should be easy monsters w/ low drop rates.

rite now big parties are a total joke. extra members hurt you more than they help. thats just messed up -_-

[Neith]

The whole game (aside from what, party missions you may fail occasionally) is way, way too easy.

I've almost quit- I used to play for hours, now I'm struggling to stay online for 30 mins before I get bored to death. MAG would be a temporary interest, but even with that (and the time after it), it's just a matter of time before I'll be bored again.

Oh, and for whoever said White Beast is easy in a team- it's a joke to solo, even without a Sleep / Resist. Damn, the boss dies in a few hits to a Fortefighter.

[F-Gattaca]

MASSIVE WALL OF TEXT AHOY!


On 2008-04-06 13:26, Zorafim wrote:
Well, making it easier to dodge, and making a failed dodge more unforgiving, would be a step up. I think that's how Monster Hunter does it. It makes the game somewhat difficult without being cheap.
And thus, I suggest the dodge button.



Diga dogeball tends to be like this--at least in my experience, it has been. Buffed vanda digas hurt like the dickens, and since grouped vandas fire them in salvos, one failed dodge often means a knockout.

Now that you mention it, it WOULD be nice if we had a combat roll similar to what the rifle-toting CAST foes have (Khanone, and our former Guardian "friends" in the military subway).


On 2008-04-06 13:51, Xaeris wrote:
It's not so much difficulty I'm looking for; it's substance. If the enemies in the current highest ranks of the game had so little HP that they could be killed in a single use of a PA, you certainly wouldn't object to the idea of raising their HP, would you? Well, maybe you would, I have no idea.

As the game is now, we have three ways (skills, bullets, techs) to fight the enemy. We have nine types in which those three ways are combined and/or emphasized. And yet, inexplicably, with all this game's enemies and maps and status effects, the fortefighter reigns supreme because there almost nothing you cannot effectively tear your way through with sheer damage.

We can freeze enemies, we can silence enemies, we can nerf their stats. All I want from Sonic Team, is to throw us some enemies where it's more practical to those instead of mindlessly spam Majarra. Is it really so much that I want to make full use of the variety we have in our abilities? Is that really so Nintendo Hard?


Well ... It's probably because I DON'T spam Dus Majjara with Raul DiUragano, but he takes quite a bit of damage on his rampages. In fact, he can get smacked down to the floor if he's not careful. He uses other weapons (twin daggers, axe). Raul tends to get punished pretty bad when he wades into a group of enemies. In fact, I find I have an easier time as myself (F Gattaca) using SMGs and single daggers, probably because that combination of weapons lends itself well to staying just outside the group of foes rather than charging right in.

What would you want to see, though? Enemies with more resistance to certain categories of weapons compared to others? Something like, say, Ragnarok Online, where each class of weapon (mace, rod, spear, sword, etc.) does a different percentage of its total potential damage based on the size of the enemy it is used against?


On 2008-04-06 15:57, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
]While I can't speak for the rest, let me say this:

PSU is on easymode. However, I am very glad it is on easymode, because it's a casual game, and by no means do I want them to increase the overall difficulty (adding things like PSO's challenge mode [which required precise teamwork in order to complete, more of a mental difficulty than a skill-oriented one] would be a welcome change, but the core of the gameplay is very easy, as it should be for this type of game).


Eh, well ... I do agree with you that ST would do well to add optional challenging modes to the game. And at least you're one of the few who like the game as it is even if you find it easy.

We still could use some kind of C-Mode mission. I've had friends tell me that this game could even try FFXI's solution, which was to temporarly delevel chracters for specific quests if they were over the level cap for said quest. It'd have to be a mission that'd have some other kind of reward than EXP, though.


On 2008-04-06 17:47, Ahkaskar wrote:
In PSO, I found I wanted to play my CAST fairly often, just so I could learn where the traps where. If I played my force, I often found I'd walk head-long into a trap without knowing it. Eventually, I had some idea of when to throw the trap vision, but it still wasn't a perfect science.

Hahaha, I'm like that even in PSU now. The bit about your force, that is. I stumble into the path of cloaked traps way too often. Keep forgetting to use my goggles ...


On 2008-04-07 06:40, Rashiid wrote:

On 2008-04-07 01:33, Yusaku_Kudou wrote:
No, it's easy, but it's not too easy. I keep things somewhat challenging by playing newman fighter/gunner and CAST fortetecher. Except being a newman fighter used to be much more difficult than it is now. I think they gave me too much ATP, being over 1300 now.



But that's just foolish. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif



No, that's just awesome. So sayeth the Deja.


On 2008-04-07 06:49, panzer_unit wrote:
One change that might be fun is only selling high-end healing items like Trimate, Photon Charge, and Scape Doll at in-town item vendors. Then HP and energy conservation would be a really big deal like they should be... you can't just rush head-first into a pack of monsters and trimate your way out of it.


Actually, I recall saying this before, but ... Scape dolls themselves--and the lack of punishment upon death--probably play a big factor in how easy the game is to the easymode crowd.

They weren't sold at stores in any version of PSO, were they? I just remember PSO:BB, and they were a rare drop there.

Remember before the removal of the death penalty? "No scapes = kick" parties? And yet people complained how easy it was to get an S-rank in missions. Well, duh! A fat stack of scapes makes anyone a juggernaut, albeit an expensive one should you be the type to make Chumbawumba's "Tubthumping" song a reality. ("I get knocked down, but I get up again, you're never gonna keep me down ... ")

But even if ST decided to remove scapes from stores and make them synth-only, it wouldn't change anyone's mind. Doesn't Giresta revive those who've fallen, anyway?


On 2008-04-08 07:32, Rust wrote:

On 2008-04-08 07:25, Andy1423 wrote:
Or at least scale the monster HP to the NUMBER OF PLAYERS IN THE ROOM!!! That would make the S2 solo way different from an S2 full party. More mesta drops, why not scale the enemy lvl and difficulty as well. Pretty obvious fix in my opinion.


Agreed.



Like I said, that would only provoke the easymode crowd to label the game as being more annoying and tedious than before, rather than admitting that it adds any kind of challenge.

It's likely a doable patch, but it's not going to change minds.

I once said--partially in exasperation over the "PSU sucks because it's easy" part of the easymode crowd--that PSU needs some kind of "X-Rank" variant of every mission where all enemies are level 300, so that even at our final level cap the enemies will still be beyond our ken. It wouldn't stop the easymode crowd from complaining, though.

Nothing will.


On 2008-04-08 08:02, Arada wrote:
Far too easy ?

I say yes.

Watch that Gunmaster go through White Beasts S in 6 minutes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4F5qx2yT8w). Or True Darkness S2 in 4 minutes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8657t0Spm0).

Or just watch that Fighmaster go through True Darkness S2 in just 3 minutes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3eyIjc2UVY) !



I'm pretty sure those were not perfect completion speed runs.

I'd be more impressed if these folks, say, blazed through the Rykros mission, and got a perfect score on that. Then I'd be inclined to agree with the "way too easy" crowd.

Which brings me to ...


On 2008-04-06 23:36, Aries2384 wrote:
This game is easy easy. Fortunately, ST adds the blessings of missions like HSM S, Egg Thieves, and BRUCE S. Fun and challenging. Besides those missions, yes, this game is obscenely easy.



On 2008-04-08 14:22, UrikoBB3 wrote:
The whole game (aside from what, party missions you may fail occasionally) is way, way too easy.

I've almost quit- I used to play for hours, now I'm struggling to stay online for 30 mins before I get bored to death. MAG would be a temporary interest, but even with that (and the time after it), it's just a matter of time before I'll be bored again.


I'm guessing Rykros doesn't hold your interest either, if you're among the "this game is easier than preschool" crowd.

I've yet to try Rykros out on a serious run--I was given a tour of it on C by a friend. At first it didn't seem like too big of a deal (heck, your map shows you where the pits of death are) but towards the end I could see where it could get really bad. Orcdillians, according to my friends, push you into the death pits and into the path of megid shots frequently.

As much as I hate insta-death spells, it'd probably be an adequate challenge to anyone who likes, say, Touhou games ... where bullet hell is all too familiar a concept.

And come on, isn't there at least some challenge involved in fighting monsters while avoiding megid shots flying every which way?

[Neith]

On 2008-04-08 15:25, F-Gattaca wrote:
I'm guessing Rykros doesn't hold your interest either, if you're among the "this game is easier than preschool" crowd.

I've yet to try Rykros out on a serious run--I was given a tour of it on C by a friend. At first it didn't seem like too big of a deal (heck, your map shows you where the pits of death are) but towards the end I could see where it could get really bad. Orcdillians, according to my friends, push you into the death pits and into the path of megid shots frequently.

As much as I hate insta-death spells, it'd probably be an adequate challenge to anyone who likes, say, Touhou games ... where bullet hell is all too familiar a concept.

And come on, isn't there at least some challenge involved in fighting monsters while avoiding megid shots flying every which way?



I've ran/solo'd Rykros enough (ultimately gave up, because there's no real reason to run it). It's a much easier version of HIVE- the only large enemies are Stateria (on a rare map only), and Zasharogan, which are possibly the most pathetic excuse for a mini-boss I've seen. The 'Megid' turrets don't instant kill, and generally don't even do much damage. The only damaging ones are the slow-firing ones, which are simple to dodge.

The only 'challenge' in areas like that is dodging for example, Deljaban Megid, when there's a massive spawn of them- but when said spawn is only alive for a matter of seconds, it's hard to even take it seriously.

Orcdillans just push you around a little. As I said, the turrets can't even instant-kill anyway, so its very rare they become a threat.

For the record, I've done over 200 True Darkness S2 runs, looking for Agito Repca/Gaozoran Rod/Tesbras. My equips are hardly stellar, and I clear it in just over 10 minutes (including Fakis). Pannons, Deljabans and Sendillans die in one to two combos, whether I use Majarra, or a PA like Bogga Robado. Larger enemies take a little longer (mainly Jusnaguns due to their melee resistance), but still aren't difficult at all.

Put it this way, when a Dilnazen (for example) is hitting for for 400, you have over 3500HP, and can deal 1000-2000 a hit with PA's, they don't last long enough to pose any threat.

I don't really think beefing up the enemy HP will make much difference- especially in parties. What I'd like to see is more enemies with the capability to do high damage. Things like buffed Go Vahras can do a nice amount, but 1) there aren't many of them 2) they die in seconds too.

Bosses are the main disappointment really. When you can solo a Lv115 Alterazgohg in 2 minutes, or kill a Lv120 Fakis in 3 or so, without using any Scapes and minimal 'mates, you know something's not right. Surely a boss around my level should be at least pretty tough, right?

[Rashiid]

Jeez, what's with all the wall of text threads?
I try to read them, but then I scroll down and see that each post just grows....

OnTopic: I think some of our moves should lose their knockback, that's what makes this game so easy, enemies not even being able to attack.

[Retehi]

On 2008-04-08 16:08, Rashiid wrote:
Jeez, what's with all the wall of text threads?
I try to read them, but then I scroll down and see that each post just grows....

OnTopic: I think some of our moves should lose their knockback, that's what makes this game so easy, enemies not even being able to attack.



Sorry I didn't get that, maybe you should type in a bigger font.

[Rashiid]

Oh noes! Whine!!

[-Tidus_415-]

http://www.nosnivelling.com/uploaded_images/Seattle%20Whine-736972.jpg

On topic - ATA and EVA need to be more important so we can LOL @ beasts.

[Rust]

On 2008-04-08 07:53, Akaimizu wrote:
Sorry Rust. But I have to comment. That sig is hilarious.

Funny how every time i put that thing on display, i usually get off-topic feedbacks, espcially when it took me only about five mins to do it. I guess i'm gonna put that back behind a link again ; not the case here, but it's quite bothering when people does prefer commenting a pic rather than what i actually posted.


On 2008-04-08 15:25, F-Gattaca wrote:Well, duh! A fat stack of scapes makes anyone a juggernaut, albeit an expensive one should you be the type to make Chumbawumba's "Tubthumping" song a reality. ("I get knocked down, but I get up again, you're never gonna keep me down ... ")

I have to write this one somewhere.


On 2008-04-08 15:25, F-Gattaca wrote:

Like I said, that would only provoke the easymode crowd to label the game as being more annoying and tedious than before, rather than admitting that it adds any kind of challenge.

It's likely a doable patch, but it's not going to change minds.

I once said--partially in exasperation over the "PSU sucks because it's easy" part of the easymode crowd--that PSU needs some kind of "X-Rank" variant of every mission where all enemies are level 300, so that even at our final level cap the enemies will still be beyond our ken. It wouldn't stop the easymode crowd from complaining, though.

Nothing will.



I don't pretend trying to find a solution for the easy-mode crowd. Like you said, complainers will always complain, no matter what is done regarding the game mechanics.
I like the game like it is now, as PSU v.1 wasn't harder back in the day, it was just more boring, mainly because of the incredible amount of HP some mobs did have and the not so good PA stats. I have a very short attention span, i already need to alternate PSU with another game in order to not get bored of any of them, and i can't do the same mission on PSU twice in a row or i feel the urge to log off ; so no need to say how i felt when it was about spending about five minutes solo to kill a spawn of mobs (especially when there were big ones) in higher difficulties.

[Rashiid]

On 2008-04-08 18:53, Rust wrote:

On 2008-04-08 07:53, Akaimizu wrote:
Sorry Rust. But I have to comment. That sig is hilarious.

Funny how every time i put that thing on display, i usually get off-topic feedbacks, espcially when it took me only about five mins to do it. I guess i'm gonna put that back behind a link again ; not the case here, but it's quite bothering when people does prefer commenting a pic rather than what i actually posted.



Ew no don't do that.
It's PSOW. Topics are MEANT to get off-topic.

But anyway, meseta is too easy to come by, too.
I leave for a few weeks for personal reasons, and I come back and my friend has like 30mil+, just from White Beast runs. Nothing major sold, just runs.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-04-08 15:25, F-Gattaca wrote:
Diga dogeball tends to be like this--at least in my experience, it has been. Buffed vanda digas hurt like the dickens, and since grouped vandas fire them in salvos, one failed dodge often means a knockout.
...
Actually, I recall saying this before, but ... Scape dolls themselves--and the lack of punishment upon death--probably play a big factor in how easy the game is to the easymode crowd.

They weren't sold at stores in any version of PSO, were they? I just remember PSO:BB, and they were a rare drop there.
...
I've yet to try Rykros out on a serious run--I was given a tour of it on C by a friend. At first it didn't seem like too big of a deal (heck, your map shows you where the pits of death are) but towards the end I could see where it could get really bad. Orcdillians, according to my friends, push you into the death pits and into the path of megid shots frequently.


I like fighting diga squads - dodging around and shooting back has a bit of a shooter feel. Too bad I don't get PP back if I let their Diga fly really close.

I don't think PSO shops sold scapes EVER, and Trimate/Trifluid/Star Atomizer were stocked at random... sometimes you'd have to ask teammates to grab a stack for you.

I *hate* Rykros as a fighter, and dark enemies generally. A lot of them spam knockdown moves that make getting your hits in a real chore once they're in close combat, unless you're fighting back with the same. In terms of Fortefighter damage I don't mind taking enemies out with about half of a PA combo... it's GOOD that fighting basic enemies shouldn't be a chore. But I also think every block of every mission should have a few encounters that pile on enemies in the style of Gauntlet or Dynasty Warriors, in order to present a real challenge.

[Bolvyn]

Yes it is. That is why I took a brake from it for a while and wate for somting good to come out.

[enoch]

I just started playing. I played solo online random missions until yesterday. it took me weeks to get to level 20. and a level 2 force

I found White beast with a party of 6
in an hour my level was 25 and my force level was 6

[Ahkaskar]

I've actually compared PSU to Gauntlet on a number of occasions. I've played Gauntlet Dark Legacy up around level 85 and I really rather enjoyed it. Playing it with a couple people makes it so much better.

The reason I like it is because it's not tough, though it can be a bit of a challenge. I like the party missions because I can go on them with a friend and we can spend half an hour figuring it out from end to end. I'd really rather not be struggling to do anything. Before the AotI changes, PSU was a struggle, and that's not so much fun when you just want to play something with a friend.


On 2008-04-08 15:25, F-Gattaca wrote
What would you want to see, though? Enemies with more resistance to certain categories of weapons compared to others? Something like, say, Ragnarok Online, where each class of weapon (mace, rod, spear, sword, etc.) does a different percentage of its total potential damage based on the size of the enemy it is used against?

Actually, I don't think I'd mind that. I don't really like the elemental thing as players have some manner of control over it. Sure, it's random what percentage you get, but you can keep trying until you get some immense number. I suppose I could repeatedly synth things until I get per-mission loadouts, but that doesn't really seem like fun to me. It'd probably make it a lot easier, though.


On 2008-04-08 15:25, F-Gattaca wrote:

On 2008-04-06 17:47, Ahkaskar wrote:
In PSO, I found I wanted to play my CAST fairly often, just so I could learn where the traps where. If I played my force, I often found I'd walk head-long into a trap without knowing it. Eventually, I had some idea of when to throw the trap vision, but it still wasn't a perfect science.

Hahaha, I'm like that even in PSU now. The bit about your force, that is. I stumble into the path of cloaked traps way too often. Keep forgetting to use my goggles ...


Heh, in general, traps are more or less entirely forgiving in PSU. Worst trap I've ever come across? A stun plate in the story missions. I'd get kicked into it while on a PA frag hunt, be held for like 3-5 seconds, then stunned for 3-5 seconds. Mostly an annoyance when I was on the clock.

Not that I think they should be instant-kill, though near death type stuff might be fun, heh. Run around with your HP too low and you get kaboom'd.


On 2008-04-08 15:25, F-Gattaca wrote:

On 2008-04-08 07:32, Rust wrote:

On 2008-04-08 07:25, Andy1423 wrote:
Or at least scale the monster HP to the NUMBER OF PLAYERS IN THE ROOM!!! That would make the S2 solo way different from an S2 full party. More mesta drops, why not scale the enemy lvl and difficulty as well. Pretty obvious fix in my opinion.


Agreed.



Like I said, that would only provoke the easymode crowd to label the game as being more annoying and tedious than before, rather than admitting that it adds any kind of challenge.

I think I agree that it wouldn't stop anything at all. You'd end up with easier, more profitable solo work. For those that do group together, anyone who did manage to tag everything might be leveling faster, so ST probably would have even a harder time keeping up with the top-end missions.


On 2008-04-08 15:25, F-Gattaca wrote:

On 2008-04-08 08:02, Arada wrote:
Far too easy ?

I say yes.

Watch that Gunmaster go through White Beasts S in 6 minutes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4F5qx2yT8w). Or True Darkness S2 in 4 minutes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8657t0Spm0).

Or just watch that Fighmaster go through True Darkness S2 in just 3 minutes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3eyIjc2UVY) !



I'm pretty sure those were not perfect completion speed runs.

I'd be more impressed if these folks, say, blazed through the Rykros mission, and got a perfect score on that. Then I'd be inclined to agree with the "way too easy" crowd.

I actually kinda like these types of videos for one other reason. I think they are a pretty good example of what's too easy and what's too hard. If you look at what they're doing, you can see why they're moving through the mission so quick.

I think a lot of it comes down to the way they do damage. The amount is somewhat warranted, given they have 25 levels over the enemies in the True Darkness videos. I think if the monsters had HP to stand up to the Fighmaster's Jabroga and didn't get knocked away, it'd be a lot more "challenging". I don't really know what to say for the Gunmaster.

Heh, I'm sure if people tried playing my Fighgunner they'd probably find the game plenty challenging. I have no idea how to modify a Fighgunner to do the kind of damage that people do as a Fortefighter with Jabroga. It's not just that it's high damage, it's also that you don't really need to be in direct combat to do it. I mean, people are leaping very accurately in a group of monsters with damage that takes them out entirely in the alpha strike with little to no risk. I suppose I could use a slicer, but I don't really "want" to.

On other hand, my little Fighgunner fights by getting in the mix of things. Really quite harrowing when you start getting socked in the back by Megid that you didn't see coming. I'm just glad I have my Freeze / Resist... that stopped a lot of my deaths.

People often choose the easiest way possible to beat things. It's a matter of finding the most powerful attacks with the least risk, and it's that which people are judging the game by. Rather than making things super-strong or adding in tons of monsters, there really needs to be more risk to players that will choose to fight that way. Although, it'd help if monsters didn't just walk right into the hail of damage like cattle to the slaughter...

On a side note, I'm actually really surprised by how much I'm agreeing with you, Gattaca. What server do you play on, anyhow? I saw all but that in your sig thing.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ahkaskar on 2008-04-09 14:44 ]</font>

[MSAksion]

BOTTOM LINE - the game is Easy because Sega wants you to just run the same damn mission over and over and over and over.

You (Read: Me myself I) never find anything worth jack. Best i ever found Personally without any help was a Needle Cannon while i was looking for my Rikuateri. I never found a rikuateri btw.

These short missions are far from epic and only need 2 or 3 people to finish. Having 6 people parties is damn near overkill lately when everyone is lvl 120+ and all our skills are lvl 29 and higher.

I read stories of people soloing Sleeping Warriors S2 for months - they find jack. One guy does it once and he finds like 3 psycho wands its B.S. plain and simple. The RARES distribution system sucks ass.

To have a challenge one must make a new character which is a painful unless there is a 500% up exp bonus event coming up - say Max G or something. In the last week of winter event i got my hunter from 25 to 60 and i played only a few hours total @_@

==CONCLUSION==
EASY = Spam.
SPAM = Promise of Rares.
Promise of Rares = Heartache, Pain, Disappointment.
Heartache, Pain, Disappointment = Sleep - go to work, Post about Whining, and then log in next night.
*Lather Rinse Repeat

[-Chilly]

Easy? Yes, needs to be more challenging NO! Casual Multiplayer Online RPG, doesnt need to be Massivly Multiplayer Online RPG boring long strungle to lv 10 where 1 monster can KO you if you go to the wrong area, delevel.

**Stop playing WB all day**

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Chilly on 2008-04-10 03:09 ]</font>

[Gen2000]

Yes it's way too easy. They should be more creative with the mob spawns and stop nerfing enemies/missions (R.I.P good Desert Terror/Goliath and why are the Go Vahras in Scared Planet and some other AoI only areas so slow compared the ones from pre-AoI missions?). They boost all the players to supergods but forgot about the enemies.

I also heavily agree they should not only adjust the difficulty of mobs depending on the size of the party but the item drop rates as well, would give more incentive to actually want to be in a party besides MP leeching for alt classes or powerleveling. Increased slowdown, lag, and a even lesser chance at a rare? Fun stuff there.

[chaoskila]

its easy if you make it easy

[Powder Keg]

It's also easy if all you play is White Beast.

[Weeaboolits]

Go go, SEED Awakened!

Shield king Gaozoran-a-go-go!