Master Classes = Acro Classes? (Rephrased)

[xBladeM6x]

EDIT: Since just close to no one was getting what i was trying to post. I'll rephrase it. The only point i was trying to make was that the Master classes weren't as supreme as most of you think. Or some. i meant that they are very similar to an acro class based on the fact that BOTH Acro Classes and Master Classes have the same movement in speed, and their power/tech is reduced compared to their opposing forte classes. Which would make them 2-Handed Using Acro classes (not STRICTLY) But just the ability is open now, to 2 handed. (Spears, etc, for Fighmasters, and Rods for Masterforces.) i was never trying to say that Acro Classes were the same as the Masterclass completely. I was trying to say they were very much alike in a general aspect. But either i worded it wrong, or you all just didn't take it in the same way i meant for it to be read.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: xBladeM6x on 2008-04-08 20:54 ]</font>

[Powder Keg]

Gunmaster not having grenades = lose.

[Katy]

Why does Gunmaster needs nades???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4F5qx2yT8w

[DEM_CIG]

Acro can only use one handed weps, unlike master where they can use 2 handed weapons.

[Darius_Drake]

Where are you getting your FighMaster stats from? The calculator does not calculate them yet. Actually the calculator doesn't calculate any of the master class stats.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Darius_Drake on 2008-04-08 12:30 ]</font>

[Weeaboolits]

Fighmaster is the only class aside from fighgunner that can use doublesabers, so it's not useless right there, I'm rather psyched for it, I can finally use all of my heavy weapons at once. :>

Masterforce, I don't particularly care, level 10 support sucks, but I do like that we have a force type with a truly offensive posture, be glad for the low support, it means no one will expect you to, since you can't do it any better than a megistaride.

Gunmaster has that increased firing speed, and the prolifieration of bullet saves makes it rather appealing, if only S-rank firearms were easier to come by.

[JAFO22000]

I am a ""MASTER CLASSES ARE TEH UBER L33T!!!" and a ""YESS I AM TEH MASTER OF CLASSES, I AM TEH MOST L33T PLAYER EVAR!!" person.

[amtalx]

On 2008-04-08 12:29, Ronin_Cooper wrote:

Gunmaster has that increased firing speed, and the prolifieration of bullet saves makes it rather appealing, if only S-rank firearms were easier to come by.



Low grade S ranks are easy to come by for gunners now. You have to practically give Destas and Meteor Cannons away. Hyper Vipers are pretty cheap too. Rifles though...those will always be on the expensive side I'm affraid.

[Weeaboolits]

On 2008-04-08 12:32, amtalx wrote:

On 2008-04-08 12:29, Ronin_Cooper wrote:
Gunmaster has that increased firing speed, and the prolifieration of bullet saves makes it rather appealing, if only S-rank firearms were easier to come by.Low grade S ranks are easy to come by for gunners now. You have to practically give Destas and Meteor Cannons away. Hyper Vipers are pretty cheap too. Rifles though...those will always be on the expensive side I'm affraid.Yeah, it was just rifles I meant really, but that one weapon is a quarter of their selection, so yeah. .-.

Actually, thinking about it, Mizurakihoh is fairly easy to get, compared to the other S-rank rifles, it's not great, but it'll do.

[Niloklives]

Acro classes pride themselves on versatility as well...master classes actually overspecialize...

[daniel_drago]

You've stated some pretty obvious things in all honesty, but you don't really have a lot of justification.
firstly acrofighter and fighmaster are not as alike as you've stated them, the simple fact that one uses single weapons and the other uses double just proves that there is going to be a huge damage difference. Sabers don't do any where near the damage of an axe.

Your comparison of acrotecher and mastertecher is also a bit contradictive. Firstly one is a SUPPORT the other is DAMAGE DEALER. So comparing the two is actually near impossible as masterforce is built for damage killing enemies and supporting its self while acrotecher is built to support team players and 'small' damage (I say that loosely as i am aware they can do some nice damage) to help kill targets while soloing, as i dont see much point in an acrotecher going to much offensively when the team would like their pp well spent on keeping them team alive, same with masterforce people would rather see PP used on damage rather wasted on supporting.

I think on reason we don't have an acrogunner style class is it coule possibly be boardering the line of broken. Look at the weapons. Rifle, shotgun, nade, laser, twin H, Handgun, bow, machinegun, Xbow, card, shadoog. If an acrogunner did exsit, it would msot likely use Handgun, machinegun, card, xbow and shadoog. These might not be the best of weapons to have a speed boost in especially machinegun and xbow possibly even shadoog (especially if youre one of th smart people that know of a certain type of shadoogs and its ability). Plus some of these have already been Srank only for some classes and woul generaly upset the balance of uniqueness.

I do agree that yes they are like so and so on the surface but look at them deeply enough and theres a lot more to them.

Note: i saw a slight flaw in my sentence structure that made me sound like i was contradicting myself. Hopefully fix'd that. Also I'm not trying to rubish your opinion I state again im not trolling....for once just simply stating that i dont think you've looked at the classes deeply enough.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: daniel_drago on 2008-04-08 12:52 ]</font>

[Darius_Drake]

Ummmm..... NIloklives, I will try to ignore that sig. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif LOL!!!

[Syl]

One thing OP, is that you're forgetting the existence of another master class, the Acromaster. Although it isn't out and no one really knows what it'll be like, you can't really compare the classes like that :/

Acrofighter and Fighmaster are way too different IMO to be even compared.

Same thing with aT and MT. MT is just a fortetecher on steroids. Faster and higher level techs while AT is meant to be more of a support techer with offensive capabilities.

In that case, Gunmaster would be GT since it has lower stats amirite? GT is the master of one-handed guns (well, S-rank wise) while Gunmaster... you get the point. The point is moot though, since they don't play the same.

Stats alone don't make a class, it's a combination of stats, weapon selection/rank, and PA levels.

[daniel_drago]

On 2008-04-08 12:51, SylviaEspada wrote:
One thing OP, is that you're forgetting the existence of another master class, the Acromaster. Although it isn't out and no one really knows what it'll be like, you can't really compare the classes like that :/

Acrofighter and Fighmaster are way too different IMO to be even compared.

Same thing with aT and MT. MT is just a fortetecher on steroids. Faster and higher level techs while AT is meant to be more of a support techer with offensive capabilities.

In that case, Gunmaster would be GT since it has lower stats amirite? GT is the master of one-handed guns (well, S-rank wise) while Gunmaster... you get the point. The point is moot though, since they don't play the same.

Stats alone don't make a class, it's a combination of stats, weapon selection/rank, and PA levels.



And players skill in taking full advantage of what that class has to offer. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Zorafim]

You said in your argument the exact thing that argues against it. Master classes get the speed boost and two handed weapons. Now, two handed weapons, in most cases I've seen, are much better than one handed weapons. This is especially true with technique weapons, since rods gain a 20% boost in power. Even if one handed weapons were on par with two handed weapons, the reason for this would be because of how slow two handed weapons are. Gaining a boost in attack speed with one handed weapons, though nice, is fairly redundant. The same boost, and I believe the boost is even higher with masters, would make two handed weapons that much more useful.

They step on each other's toes, but there is difference between them. The point of the class isn't that they're overwhelmingly fast like acro classes, but that they have both powerful weapons and quick attack speed.

[Weeaboolits]

I'm guessing AM will have slicers, both mags (with top-tier support techs) and whips.

This is soley speculation, but it seems the most likely equipment for them.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-04-08 11:57, xBladeM6x wrote:
The way i see it is that, these new Master Classes coming out are just like the already existing Acro classes in a sense. For all you "MASTER CLASSES ARE TEH UBER L33T!!!" Just sit down and listen for a second.

Uh-oh, sounds like one of those "I AM TEH MASTER OF CLASSES, I AM TEH MOST L33T PLAYER EVAR!!" types, come to bless us with their wisdom lol


All three of these classes are okay when it comes to efficiency.

Aww crap a reasonable point of view. This isn't as exciting as I thought it would be.


Acrofighter = FighMaster
Acrotecher = Masterforce
-- = Gunmaster


More like
Acrofighter = FighMaster + GunMaster
Acrotecher = MasterForce (oh snap and FIGHMASTER?!?!)

Acrofighters have a speed boost and access to almost every melee weapon except those usable by Fighmaster. They ALSO get twin handgun, handgun, card, and RCSM for a very good selection of high mobility firearms.

AcroTechers have lv50 cap for all the techniques that MasterForce can't use effectively, while whips and mechguns (speed bonuses on mech? not sure) round out the list of melee and range weapons you'll see even more.

Ignoring all of the classes outside of the speed-bonus types I think the only weapons with nobody to use them are Crossbow, Bow, and Grenade.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-04-08 13:17 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-04-08 13:31 ]</font>

[Weeaboolits]

Acrofighters can't use mechguns.

Also like may have already been said, the acro classes are highly versatile, while the master classes are more specialized than even the forte classes.

[pikachief]

On 2008-04-08 12:03, Artea wrote:
Gunmaster not having grenades = lose.



Mix of Guntecher and Fortegunner.

They wanted to use S ranks that were twin weapons that both classes can use.

Fortegunner gets S rank Rifles Shotguns Grenade Launchers and Lasers.

Guntecher gets S rank Bows Twin Handguns Mechguns and Crossbows.

They wanted to focus on two handed weapons, and two-handed weapons they both us. the only 4 S ranks that apply to that are Rifle, Shotgun, Laser Cannon, and Twin Handguns.

Well thats my logic to why they cant use Nades http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Techers are easy, they wanted u to use pure attack techs.

Fighmaster... uhhh.... FF's non twin but 2-handed S ranks mixed with FiG non twin but 2 handed S rank= Axe, double saber, spear and sword lol

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif but really, im sure sega just threw names of weapon types in a hat and drew out 4 for gunners and fighters XD

[Darius_Drake]

[/quote]

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif but really, im sure sega just threw names of weapon types in a hat and drew out 4 for gunners and fighters XD

[/quote]

LOL!!! I really wouldn't put it past ST.

[NeoTeppin]

I really dont get how u think that the Acro classes are like masters. The only thing they have the same is the faster attack speed. The fighmaster is a heavy dmg assault class. Acros are more of a support class that is used more for crowd control on smaller monsters. Acrotecher is nowhere near masteforce because the master does huge amounts of dmg and can use the S rank rods, while acro can only use the less dmging wands and is mainly used for buffs and heals. Gunmaster is basically just a FG on crack that loves to spam the trigger but hates explosions.

[Honey_Bot]

Gunmaster is basically just a FG on crack

i LOVE that!

more or less a lot of these assumptions are said so that if there ever is an acromaster (someone's god forbid) those that said that can always say see i am right i knew they would i am neo i am 1337!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Honey_Bot on 2008-04-08 17:38 ]</font>

[F-Gattaca]

On 2008-04-08 13:20, Ronin_Cooper wrote:
Acrofighters can't use mechguns.


... But they can dance!

*cue ending to Rayman: Raving Rabbids commercials*

In all, I don't see what the problem is, or what is so misleading about the Master classes.

It's pretty much along the lines of what I was hoping for--something to further diversify play styles and give new options on how to play, not some new tier of classes.

Look at it this way guys--they specialize in a specific group of weapons so that they are masters of them, unequaled in their ability with those specific weapons.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: F-Gattaca on 2008-04-08 17:53 ]</font>

[SStrikerR]

On 2008-04-08 11:57, xBladeM6x wrote:
This Master class will only help Fighgunners. For the fact that it is much more powerful than fighgunner. So Double Saber users will be pleased.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: xBladeM6x on 2008-04-08 12:04 ]</font>
No, No No No. I love how you think people only go fighgunner for double sabers. I went there for a mix of guns and melee, and I prefer speed over power. Fighmaster does have both speed and power, but it greatly reduces the amount of melee weapons I can use, PLUS it can't use guns. And with fighgunners stealing a few GT S ranks...ha, I don't think so. But it all depends on personal preference, so I'd advise you not to say that the class will only help fighgunners, because we aren't all double saber freaks fanatics.

[Weeaboolits]

I'm rather pleased with their weapon selections, though I'll admit that I'll probably find the S-RANK ONLY rule a tad irksome.

[ThEoRy]

I just wasted 5 minutes of my life reading this thread.

[dexter_safe]

i guess fortetechers will be alittle mad that acrotecher are going to be able to get thier buffs to lvl 50 i guess. since there won't be an acromaster yet. idc if there will be 1 or not.

[APEXi]

i was miffed when fortegunners didnt get S rank twin handguns. Now i'm miffed that gunmasters dont get grenade launchers. wtf, mate?

[Nuclearranger]

On 2008-04-08 19:44, ThEoRy wrote:
I just wasted 5 minutes of my life reading this thread.



Agreed

[Darius_Drake]

On 2008-04-08 11:57, xBladeM6x wrote:
EDIT: Since just close to no one was getting what i was trying to post. I'll rephrase it. The only point i was trying to make was that the Master classes weren't as supreme as most of you think. Or some. i meant that they are very similar to an acro class based on the fact that BOTH Acro Classes and Master Classes have the same movement in speed, and their power/tech is reduced compared to their opposing forte classes. Which would make them 2-Handed Using Acro classes (not STRICTLY) But just the ability is open now, to 2 handed. (Spears, etc, for Fighmasters, and Rods for Masterforces.) i was never trying to say that Acro Classes were the same as the Masterclass completely. I was trying to say they were very much alike in a general aspect. But either i worded it wrong, or you all just didn't take it in the same way i meant for it to be read.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: xBladeM6x on 2008-04-08 20:54 ]</font>


I understood you the first time. The problem is that I asked how you compared the stats of the masterclases to the acro classes. The calculator that you provided a link to in order to compare classes didn't show the stats for any of the masterclasses. With that being the case how do you know the comparison of the stats between masterclasses and the acro classes and the forte classes. Both the acro classes and masterclasses have speed boosts, but ST felt it necessary to give a pp eficiency penalty to the class. Please provide a link to a calculator or site that shows a comparison between the masterclasses and the current one. I didn't see masterclasses as uber classes, but at the same time I can't take everything you are saying as truth. I am open minded though, just point me to the site that shows the stats for the masterclasses. Thank you.

[xBladeM6x]

Here is the link. If you cannot see the Masterclass Choices there, then i will post them.
http://www.pso-world.com/psu-stat-calculator.php

[Kylie]

I see what you're saying, but I don't think they intended the master classes to be anything like the acro classes. I think it's more likely that they're supposed to be "masters" of the original classes and play off the strengths of them.

FM = strengths of fF and FI (its reqs)
MF = strengths of fT and WT (its reqs)
GT = strengths of fG and GT (its reqs)

The added speed is just an indication that the master classes specialize in the weapons and photon arts they can use. The PP usage is to balance things out and also to say they use more energy because they do things faster. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_yes.gif

If we ever get AM on PSU, then that'll be related to AF and AT (in some way).


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kylie on 2008-04-09 10:29 ]</font>

[MSAksion]

*WARNING - FORTETECHER WHINING DETECTED

Where does that leave us dedicated ForteTechers? With rods we are slow unless we sacrifice some TP for Har Quick thus widening the gap between the Master. In TECH damage the Master force will out do us. With support buffing and speed of healing we loose to Acrotechers lvl 50 and upgraded healing speed.

Dont say anything about FT LongBows - our ATP is so low that bows need to be pretty strong to balance out and still - a long bow wont compare to a real ForteGunner or Master gunner can output against fliers.

SO two jobs can out-do my forteteching job doing it Faster and Stronger than me? Just get a Master force and an Acrotecher and your team is set for TECH. Who needs ForteTechers...>__>

[Darius_Drake]

I don't know how you doing it, but that was the same link I used last time. This is the results of my attempts at getting stats for master classes:

Beast Male (Fighmaster 1) - Online
No results could be found for the provided information. Try changing the job level to a different value.
Beast Male (Gunmaster 1) - Online
No results could be found for the provided information. Try changing the job level to a different value.

If you could please post the stats for the masterclasses. More specifically the Fighmaster.

[daniel_drago]

On 2008-04-09 10:42, MSAksion wrote:
*WARNING - FORTETECHER WHINING DETECTED

Where does that leave us dedicated ForteTechers? With rods we are slow unless we sacrifice some TP for Har Quick thus widening the gap between the Master. In TECH damage the Master force will out do us. With support buffing and speed of healing we loose to Acrotechers lvl 50 and upgraded healing speed.

Dont say anything about FT LongBows - our ATP is so low that bows need to be pretty strong to balance out and still - a long bow wont compare to a real ForteGunner or Master gunner can output against fliers.

SO two jobs can out-do my forteteching job doing it Faster and Stronger than me? Just get a Master force and an Acrotecher and your team is set for TECH. Who needs ForteTechers...>__>



Firstly the actual damage that will be dealt by MF and FT will be quite similar. The speed of the MF will be the only thing going for it as its support techs will barely be usable for its self.

The difference between FT and AT is quite significant in tech damage. AT still do nice damage buts its much less than FT.

Plus why bother getting both AT and MF if you know of a FT that has level 40 techs and supports? you then have 5 places left to have other types.

Put it this way it takes 2 people to be better than one, to be honest that shows how good FT really is.

[Zorafim]

No matter what kind of techer you are, you want a Har/Quick. The boost it gives is so huge that it completely overtakes the damage penalty.

Beyond that, are you aware of the concept of a hybrid class? Fortetecher will have both lv40 attack and support techs, as well as access to rods. Acrotecher has the support techs, but its tech damage doesn't go as far as fortetechers. Masterforce can't support worth beans. That puts you right smack in the middle. Yes, you could get both jobs in the same party, but you can say that about everything. Who needs fighmaster if you can just get two fighgunners? Who needs protranser if you have two fortegunners?

Basically, you're still in shock mode. Fortetecher is still a viable job if you want to use it. If not, I see no reason at all to switch jobs, other than liking access to that ranged weapon selection you seem to dislike. If you like attack techs, go masterforce. If you like support, go acrotecher. If you like both, stay fortetecher.
The difference between one job and the other isn't very big, after all. It's not like hunter classes, where you lose or gain traps and certain weapons. We can't say that we specialize in both twin weapons and melee combat, but you still keep your diga and your Ra-techs no matter where you go.

[Shinko]

On 2008-04-08 11:57, xBladeM6x wrote:
EDIT: Since just close to no one was getting what i was trying to post. I'll rephrase it. The only point i was trying to make was that the Master classes weren't as supreme as most of you think. Or some. i meant that they are very similar to an acro class based on the fact that BOTH Acro Classes and Master Classes have the same movement in speed, and their power/tech is reduced compared to their opposing forte classes. Which would make them 2-Handed Using Acro classes (not STRICTLY) But just the ability is open now, to 2 handed. (Spears, etc, for Fighmasters, and Rods for Masterforces.) i was never trying to say that Acro Classes were the same as the Masterclass completely. I was trying to say they were very much alike in a general aspect. But either i worded it wrong, or you all just didn't take it in the same way i meant for it to be read.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: xBladeM6x on 2008-04-08 20:54 ]</font>



Yes i totally agree with you. the master class isn't a superior as ppl make it out to be.

like i was saying on another post the master classes isn't all that great like ppl make them especially after see these stat, restrictions, and the pp usage. People make it see like the master classes are so superior to the other ones. I mean the master classes seem like a nice class (like the whole speed thing and mixture of good weapons in one class) but i think it's in the same boat with all the others.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shinko on 2008-04-09 12:02 ]</font>

[xBladeM6x]

Beast Male (Fighmaster 20) - Online
Level HP ATP ATA TP DFP EVP MST STA
130 3811 1836 523 267 348 79 238 8
I know i put the Level skill as 20, but thats because by time we get master classes, the update will come with the level 20 Types.

[Darius_Drake]

Ok. Cool. It worked using 20 level job type. I was trying to see what kinda hit I would get at level 1 Fighmaster and the calculator didn't want to act right. This does make the classes balanced, but I don't think that is enough to dissuade me from checking out the axe and sword with a big speed boost added to them. My natural palette as a Fortefighter is knuckles, axe, sword, pistol-claw combo. Every blue moon I might use a spear. I never did think the classes would be broken, but I think it will still be specialized. I also feel that ST made these classes to encourage those who use these classes to party up more and solo less. Thanks for the stats.

[Zorafim]

On 2008-04-09 11:57, Shinko wrote:
Yes i totally agree with you. the master class isn't a superior as ppl make it out to be.


Considering how much people are hating on the class, that's really saying something.

[xBladeM6x]

On 2008-04-09 13:05, Darius_Drake wrote:
Ok. Cool. It worked using 20 level job type. I was trying to see what kinda hit I would get at level 1 Fighmaster and the calculator didn't want to act right. This does make the classes balanced, but I don't think that is enough to dissuade me from checking out the axe and sword with a big speed boost added to them. My natural palette as a Fortefighter is knuckles, axe, sword, pistol-claw combo. Every blue moon I might use a spear. I never did think the classes would be broken, but I think it will still be specialized. I also feel that ST made these classes to encourage those who use these classes to party up more and solo less. Thanks for the stats.


Yeah, it was never my intention to say these were bad classes. I was just saying that they aren't better than the Forte Classes. To me they are just good PA leveling classes, and something to check out, try, and go back to my normal class http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[LTrav2k]

On 2008-04-09 11:05, Zorafim wrote:
No matter what kind of techer you are, you want a Har/Quick. The boost it gives is so huge that it completely overtakes the damage penalty.

Beyond that, are you aware of the concept of a hybrid class? Fortetecher will have both lv40 attack and support techs, as well as access to rods. Acrotecher has the support techs, but its tech damage doesn't go as far as fortetechers. Masterforce can't support worth beans. That puts you right smack in the middle. Yes, you could get both jobs in the same party, but you can say that about everything. Who needs fighmaster if you can just get two fighgunners? Who needs protranser if you have two fortegunners?

Basically, you're still in shock mode. Fortetecher is still a viable job if you want to use it. If not, I see no reason at all to switch jobs, other than liking access to that ranged weapon selection you seem to dislike. If you like attack techs, go masterforce. If you like support, go acrotecher. If you like both, stay fortetecher.
The difference between one job and the other isn't very big, after all. It's not like hunter classes, where you lose or gain traps and certain weapons. We can't say that we specialize in both twin weapons and melee combat, but you still keep your diga and your Ra-techs no matter where you go.



Best explanation I've read for the masterforce. This appears to be the glass cannon everyone's wanted, where their sole job is to deal damage. They even have the innate speed boost on further accentuate what they should be doing, wrecking people with attack techs.

I agree that so far regardless of the techer class, having a Har/Quick is the best option in comparison to the TP increases/decreases we've seen on other head slot items. Having this speed boost gives a few more head slot options, and limiting support techs to 10 puts them in the same position of other other masterclasses without a buffer... making use of items/PMs for better buffs.

Attack techs with reckless abandon? I thought some folks would be much happier to have a class like that in the game.

[RemiusTA]

On 2008-04-09 10:42, MSAksion wrote:
*WARNING - FORTETECHER WHINING DETECTED

Where does that leave us dedicated ForteTechers? With rods we are slow unless we sacrifice some TP for Har Quick thus widening the gap between the Master. In TECH damage the Master force will out do us. With support buffing and speed of healing we loose to Acrotechers lvl 50 and upgraded healing speed.

Dont say anything about FT LongBows - our ATP is so low that bows need to be pretty strong to balance out and still - a long bow wont compare to a real ForteGunner or Master gunner can output against fliers.

SO two jobs can out-do my forteteching job doing it Faster and Stronger than me? Just get a Master force and an Acrotecher and your team is set for TECH. Who needs ForteTechers...>__>



Well, now you are in the middle of being stronger than Acrotecher but weaker than Masterforce, and being able to support better than Masterforce but support weaker than Acrotecher.

Your a balanced class. Congradulations! You are now the "Humans" of the Force group. People need you to buff + nuke + heal.

[Zorafim]

Actually, I disagree with masterforces not needing a Har. Their strength is boosting the attack speed of the weapon, while the Har boosts the attack speed of the tech. The total effect is added together, instead of multiplied like with PP save units and forte bonuses, making them overall more effective.
If the attack speed is fast enough for you, then I suppose you could use another slot. But, even if it's fast enough to do anything you want as quickly as you want, the additional boost of the Har is still fast enough to outdamage any other tech boosting item (unless you're a cast, in which it may be debatable).