PSO and PSU way of Spellcasting [Archive]

Weeaboolits

Apr 8, 2008, 02:22 PM

On 2008-04-08 12:17, ashley50 wrote:
Never played PSO so w/e.

PSUPSO had a customizable action palette that let you set 6 different things, BB allowed you to use F keys as well, so it let you have like 18.

Normally you'd of course have normal and hard attacks, then whatever else, you could customize it as you saw fit and techniques weren't bound to your weapon in any way, though certain weapons could boost their power.

I could cast foie while using a rifle or twin daggers, for example, wand only served to provide bonus power to the techniques by increasing your MST, as well as your defensive stats.

PSU's system only bothers me at all because it forces me to get five wands instead of one. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Also I miss casting techs from mechguns and twin sabers. :<

Anduril

Apr 8, 2008, 02:29 PM

On 2008-04-08 12:22, Ronin_Cooper wrote:
PSO had a customizable action palette that let you set 6 different things, BB allowed you to use F keys as well, so it let you have like 18.

Normally you'd of course have normal and hard attacks, then whatever else, you could customize it as you saw fit and techniques weren't bound to your weapon in any way, though certain weapons could boost their power.

I could cast foie while using a rifle or twin daggers, for example, wand only served to provide bonus power to the techniques by increasing your MST, as well as your defensive stats.

PSU's system only bothers me at all because it forces me to get five wands instead of one. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Also I miss casting techs from mechguns and twin sabers. :<

Yeah the PSO casting system was fun, but I feel that it served to help the fact that there was an emphasis on solo play due to Offline mode. PSU seems to be marketed exclusively for Online play, so the TECH system as it is now seems to put a bit more emphasis on Team memebers supporting one another, rather than everyone just casting Resta and Buffs on themselves when they feel like it. It is a kinda half-ased excuse to emphasize teamwork, though it does kinda work.

JAFO22000

Apr 8, 2008, 02:32 PM

What does "FWI" stand for? Sounds like an airport code.....

"C'mon kids, we have to pick grandma up from the airport!"
"Is she coming in to Kissenger?"
"No, she's coming into FWI"
"Awwwww, I hate the parking at FWI...."

Weeaboolits

Apr 8, 2008, 02:34 PM

Not so much the casting system but the availability of techs in PSU.

In PSO any non-android could cast techs, in PSU it's restricted to only techer types.

PSO had restrictions on specific techs, also (ep1&2 and on, at least), like HUmars not having access to S&D.

panzer_unit

Apr 8, 2008, 02:37 PM

The PSO action palette was awesome at the time, but PSU is better.

I have 6 consumables + 4 techs (or 2 techs + 1 or 2 attacks) available right away... and by grouping sets of techs on weapons I make all my buffs or proper-element attack techniques (along with the weapon that boosts damage for that element) available in one move.

In PSO I had resta, trifluid, and 4 techs... I'd still have to swap wands and sometimes shields to maximize element bonuses, and changing what techniques I had available required reconfiguring my button mapping while dodging monsters. Fortunately each Force type got a damage bonus that shoehorned them into a manageable set of techniques for the buttons available. Blue Burst (I played the beta) F-keys were cool but hardly better since I've gotta move my hand from the controller to the keyboard.

[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-04-08 12:43 ]

Weeaboolits

Apr 8, 2008, 02:42 PM

In PSU I remember immediately loving having my attack button not mapped to the same button I used to pick up items. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

I liked healing off the action palette more than PSU's item palette, PSU's is a bit slower.

Honestly, I don't really like the weapon or item palettes beyond them not allowing me to accidentally drop or sell my weapons.

darkante

Apr 8, 2008, 03:11 PM

I prefer PSO style of magic using really.
Why should you be limited using magic upon what weapon you are using? :S

When i used spells in PSO, i learned the technique of using the quick menu where you can swap fast between magic choosing and weapons and stuff.
Used it instead for quick use of trifluid and boost spells to save space. Jellen is more often used so it had to be palette.
And you don´t really need more then Ra-spells and Grantz to destroy things as a Fonewman. =)

When i felt cowardly, i just spammed Gifoie in the room beforehand otherwise and then rushed in the next room severaly damaging enemies upon spawn and then rushed back if the enemies weren´t dead.
Rinced and repeated until death. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[ This Message was edited by: darkante on 2008-04-08 13:12 ]

panzer_unit

Apr 8, 2008, 03:16 PM

The weapon load times on PSU are more of a problem than the palette system.
Seriously how the hell does it take so long?
Why do I go into the unarmed stance with my weapons still in hand (or waving! awesome) in the middle of a fight?

Weeaboolits

Apr 8, 2008, 03:18 PM

I've had times where I wanted to buff the party, only for shifta to take a full TWO MINUTES to load, this is, of course, AFTER the time it took the rod itself to load.

Akaimizu

Apr 8, 2008, 03:22 PM

The issues of taking a bit of time to load on weapon swaps is something I've had to put into my strategy for a while. The only problem is during those times when it gets real bad and I'm stuck on a single weapon choice, for a while. Fortunately, lag that bad doesn't happen too often.

Bolvyn

Apr 8, 2008, 03:23 PM

I like the casting on PSO so much better. You don't need a wond or a staff to cast any thing. You can jest use your hands.

I like the spells on PSU.

rogue_robot

Apr 8, 2008, 03:33 PM

PSO's may have plenty room for improvement (like the whole 6 slots non-BB issue), but I still prefer it to PSU's (even without the extra Blue Burst action slots). With PSU's system (offline, where non-Forces can use techs), I'm forced to give up a palette slot for a wand or rod for techs I only cast occasionally (like GiResta) - and even with techers, I'd much rather not have to switch away from the weapon that allows me quick attacks which don't cost PP, just to use a tech, and then have to switch back to the that weapon.

Why? Every time I'm in a situation where I need that GiResta immediately it's always one of those cases where I also need to lead out of the tech straight into a normal weapon attack to prevent whatever put me in said condition from putting me right back in said condition because of the time it took for me to switch, cast, and switch again. Anymore, I use 'mates far more often than techs, popping my GiResta only if I need healing after killing everything in my immediate vicinity, or am facing particularly slow enemies, just because my actual chances of survival are usually better.

Ironically, though, PSU could have made the palettes into something better than PSO had, in my opinion, if only ST had not chosen to bind techs to weapons. Currently, we have a item palette and a weapon palette, and normally, when you bring up the palettes, the cursor is on your current weapon (exception for Photon Eraser/Reflector/Goggles, though those aren't really needed on the palette anymore).

What they could have done is add a third palette to the right of the weapon palette for quick-casting techs (since the cursor normally starts on what would be the middle palette - the weapon palette).

For an added bonus, it could be a PA palette instead of just a tech palette - instead of just binding one PA to each striking/ranged weapon, two to each wand, and four to each rod, each weapon could have its own whole palette of six slots (when you switch weapon, the PA palette on the right changes accordingly), with techs being bindable to anything, wands and rods regaining their weak melee attack, and all weapons regaining their "hard" attack from PSO (using the button currently wasted on a holding only a single PA for striking weapons, and not even used at all for guns).

Ffuzzy-Logik

Apr 8, 2008, 03:34 PM

I heard apples are better than oranges. Can anyone confirm this?

Bolvyn

Apr 8, 2008, 03:40 PM

On 2008-04-08 13:34, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
I heard apples are better than oranges. Can anyone confirm this?

I like oranges better.

rogue_robot

Apr 8, 2008, 03:44 PM

On 2008-04-08 13:40, Bolvyn wrote:

On 2008-04-08 13:34, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
I heard apples are better than oranges. Can anyone confirm this?

I like oranges better.

Seconded.

majan

Apr 8, 2008, 03:52 PM

my only gripe with psu's spell casting is the ra-attacks. in theory they are awesome but if there was some sort of skill that could be implemented in order to better aim them(cough, just attack/just counter) that would be awesome.

otherwise this game shits all over pso's spellcasting,as much fun as spamming rafoie was it kinda got very old very fast. plus the new system of element attributes in this game kinda shakes things up a bit too makes it a little more interesting.

Zorafim

Apr 8, 2008, 03:59 PM

I get sick after I eat an apple, because I can't wash it well enough to get rid of all the junk on the skin. The skin of an orange is tougher to get through, but at least you don't end up eating pesticides.

I prefer the generic RPG weapon casting. Having to switch over to another weapon makes it seem too artificial. Choosing a spell out of a menu seems much more smooth to me.

Aries2384

Apr 8, 2008, 03:59 PM

I dont know about this whole Weapon switch lag thing.. Maybe you should stop playing on shitty consoles and servers and switch over to the 360, eh? I have no such problems.
ALSO, while PSO had a quick menu for Tech selection, ULTIMATELY, you only could link a couple techs to your control scheme. I like in PSU how I can equip Barta esque techs on one rod, then equip Foie or whatever to another. I also like LVLING my techs as opposed to buying or finding higher lvl discs for your techs. It definitely seperates the people who work at their class (Yes even afk levelers are putting work in, albeit cheaply.) Hands free casting? Blah. I like being able to subjectively setup 24 different spells on my pallet to use at any time.
Again I say, stop using inferior consoles and you won't have weapon lag.

Weeaboolits

Apr 8, 2008, 04:06 PM

Zorafim

Apr 8, 2008, 04:12 PM

I would suggest getting the PC version if you can, though. The difference is huge, and you can pretty much get it for free anyway. Weapon switches are so quick that I can change weapons to set up combos, and I hardly have to work with weapon lag. I do get some slowdown, though...

Poncho_Jr

Apr 8, 2008, 04:13 PM

Bare hands please.

Hippie

Apr 8, 2008, 04:24 PM

Another thing that was good about the PSO system was you could club things with your Staff/Wand when
you were in a tight spot. InPSU you should be able to use you rods and wands as striking weapons too.

RemiusTA

Apr 8, 2008, 04:25 PM

PSU system is millions of times better than the PSO system (in pretty much every aspect), but i did enjoy Bare Hands alot more than needing weapons to cast.

However, it makes sense when you take into consideration that PSU actually explains TECHNICS, while PSO did not explain Techniques other than "magic force of the user." In PSU, the Photon energy used in both melee and ranged weapons are the same thing as TECHNICS, so while the user is dependant on the weapon for TECHNICS the ability of the weapon in dependant on the skill and control of the user.

Which generally is the same way they explained Photon Arts and leveling up spells and such. So in reality, its all the same thing. The PSU characters COULD bare-hand cast technics, but it would make no sense if you could just have a madoog with a pool of extra energy floating over you to turn your fireworks show into a volcanic explosion.

Bare Hands casting really was just for looking cool anyway. In PSO it was completely inefficient. I perfer the casting animation for Madoogs anyway. 50/50 for me.

Edit: And its quite obvious the PS2 is COMPLETELY underpowered when it comes to running this game. Get it on PC if you have load issues. If your PC can run this game well then i trust you it'll feel like your playing an ENTIRELY different game.

[ This Message was edited by: RemiusTA on 2008-04-08 14:31 ]

MSAksion

Apr 8, 2008, 04:29 PM

PSU style.

SO if i had a Psycho Wand i could if what you tell me i could have access to all 34 spells at any time if i hold an F key or something? That would be so awesome it would mean i would only need one weapon ever and just photon charge one psycho wand for the whole mission and never switch right?

I play on PC i never see this "TECH Lag" where it takes whole seconds to swap between rods. Most spell casters are mid-range anyway - close but not too close. I recognize the enemy that is warping in and i get ready.

"Looks like Badira appearing let me swap to palette slot 2 ICE ROD. Okay they spawned now they are no longer invincible so RABARTA then move in close to DAMUBARTA hotlinked to the same palette slot."

It helps to have the same type of spell attached in the same place. Like on CIRCLE always have all the RA-spells no matter what palette slot you are on.

On CIRCLE I have = RA-foie on one, RA-barta on two, RA-zonde on 5. etc etc.
On X is always my power hitters like FOIE, NOSDIGA, MEGID, etc etc.

panzer_unit

Apr 8, 2008, 04:33 PM

On 2008-04-08 13:59, Zorafim wrote:
I prefer the generic RPG weapon casting. Having to switch over to another weapon makes it seem too artificial. Choosing a spell out of a menu seems much more smooth to me.

LOL @ calling anything in the game artificial. I thing the hitpoint game mechanic should be replaced with a critical injuries table, and healing should involve the application of semi-realistic first aid procedures.

For the sake of game balance, I'd like to see unarmed casting deal damage comparable to unarmed melee and finger-gun attacks.

rogue_robot

Apr 8, 2008, 04:34 PM

On 2008-04-08 13:59, Aries2384 wrote:
I dont know about this whole Weapon switch lag thing.. Maybe you should stop playing on shitty consoles and servers and switch over to the 360, eh? I have no such problems.
ALSO, while PSO had a quick menu for Tech selection, ULTIMATELY, you only could link a couple techs to your control scheme. I like in PSU how I can equip Barta esque techs on one rod, then equip Foie or whatever to another. I also like LVLING my techs as opposed to buying or finding higher lvl discs for your techs. It definitely seperates the people who work at their class (Yes even afk levelers are putting work in, albeit cheaply.) Hands free casting? Blah. I like being able to subjectively setup 24 different spells on my pallet to use at any time.
Again I say, stop using inferior consoles and you won't have weapon lag.

Even without weapon slowdown/lag, even assuming you are the most godly player in the world (seeing as being uber-good at the game still doesn't make you untouchable, and even pros have bad days), there are still those occasional situations - especially when flying solo - in which that tiny amount of time spent opening the palette and switching weapons - in addition to that extra tiny amount of time spent switching back when you're done - just to go from normal attacks and PAs, to techs, and then back to normal attacks and PAs, makes all the difference between living and dying (especially since PSU, even on good PCs, is stupid and likes to unload your techs every room, then wait to load them until you take out the wand/rod, adding yet another wasted ever-so-minute slice of time that could have actually made the difference, and allowed you to survive).

...I do mostly agree on the tech leveling, though - I would agree completely if it didn't take so damn long for each individual tech (or certain individual bullets) compared to skills and character level (thereby making AFK leveling necessary in so many cases, just for even the most frequently used bullets/techs to keep up with the character level).

EDIT: Oh, and panzer_unit - I think unarmed melee attacks should do some damage, as they did in PSO (even if it does basically amount to nothing). Additionally, casting without a weapon would not free the player from cost - it would just mean a return of the TP gauge (which I prefer to PP, though I think the two alongside each other would be best - TP for techs, and PP for skills/bullets).

[ This Message was edited by: rogue_robot on 2008-04-08 14:38 ]

RemiusTA

Apr 8, 2008, 04:43 PM

When you think about it, there really is no reason to unarmed combat. I mean i know this is a Sci-Fi anime game, but how the hell are you supposed to kill a Dragon by punching it to death? Hell, how would you kill a KOLTOVA by punching it to death?

And the amount of time swiching spells through palletes is hardly a deterence to a force who knows what their doing. That, and only a retarded force goes to Solo without bringing Trimates/Dimates along with them incase their getting raped and cant afford the casting time for Resta. (And a Trimate usually takes far less than a full second to use.)

Aries2384

Apr 8, 2008, 04:53 PM

On 2008-04-08 14:43, RemiusTA wrote:
When you think about it, there really is no reason to unarmed combat. I mean i know this is a Sci-Fi anime game, but how the hell are you supposed to kill a Dragon by punching it to death? Hell, how would you kill a KOLTOVA by punching it to death?

Chuck Norris wouldn't need bare handed fighting to kill a De Ragan. He'd just glare it to death.

Inazuma

Apr 8, 2008, 05:07 PM

pso and psu are more similar than you would think. in both of em, you switch to a different weapon to cast a different tech.

for example:
in pso, you switch to pwand to cast rafoie, then switch to magical piece for gizonde, then to summit moon for foie.

in psu you would switch to your fire wep to cast rafoie, then switch to your lightning wep for gizonde, then back to the fire wep for foie.

well however you do it, in both games you are constantly switching weapons so is it really all that different? hell, i switched merges all the time in pso too, so maybe psu is more simple. plus you can cast 4 different fire techs from the same wep in psu, but for pso you would have to switch between pwand, magical piece and summit moon for rafoie, gifoie and foie.

the only big disadvantage to psu is the need for multiple weapons. i use 5 rods, 3 madoogs and 3 wands.

Rayokarna

Apr 8, 2008, 05:55 PM

Ffuzzy-Logik

Apr 8, 2008, 05:58 PM

On 2008-04-08 15:55, Rayokarna wrote:

On 2008-04-08 13:59, Aries2384 wrote:
I dont know about this whole Weapon switch lag thing.. Maybe you should stop playing on shitty consoles and servers and switch over to the 360, eh? I have no such problems.

I would rather have a small bit of weapon lag than having to restart my console after 2 or 3 runs of Groove of Fanatics.

Or maybe everyone should stop playing on both PS2 and 360 and switch to PC, which has neither weapon lag nor robot slowdown.

Or maybe this is completely off topic and should never have been brought up to begin with.

I'll go with option 2. Why do you people have to turn everything into a stupid console debate?

Zorafim

Apr 8, 2008, 06:16 PM

On 2008-04-08 14:33, panzer_unit wrote:
LOL @ calling anything in the game artificial.

LOL @ using the literal meaning of the word.

On 2008-04-08 14:43, RemiusTA wrote:
how the hell are you supposed to kill a Dragon by punching it to death? Hell, how would you kill a KOLTOVA by punching it to death?

I don't know about the rest of the population, but I'd probably start by punching it to dead. If we're basing our assumptions on our characters being strong enough to swing what seems to be 20 or so pound weapons, their punches would probably do some damage.

On 2008-04-08 15:07, Inazuma wrote:
pso and psu are more similar than you would think. in both of em, you switch to a different weapon to cast a different tech.

This is only considering pure forces. For those only somewhat magically inclined, the non-casting PSO characters, casting was as simple as pressing a button. I believe that pure casters should struggle as much as they should with their magic equipment, as much as pure hunters and rangers do with their weapons at least, just as your example demonstrated. But with hybrid classes, switching from one weapon type to another should be a fairly smooth action.

By the way, the best console to play PSU on is the Wii.

RemiusTA

Apr 8, 2008, 06:33 PM

I know people who can swing 20 pound weapons.

I highly doubt they can punch through concrete, though.

Weeaboolits

Apr 8, 2008, 06:36 PM

Swing 20 pund weapons nearly continuously for as long as an hour at a time without fatiguing? Launching large robots halfway across the room with said weapons? I doubt this.

RemiusTA

Apr 8, 2008, 06:37 PM

weapons weapons weapons weapons weapons

This isnt dragon ball Z. They run around with photon weapons for a reason. If they didn't need them then the Knuckle weapon would simply be Bare Fists.

[ This Message was edited by: RemiusTA on 2008-04-08 16:38 ]

F-Gattaca

Apr 8, 2008, 06:42 PM

On 2008-04-08 16:37, RemiusTA wrote:
weapons weapons weapons weapons weapons

This isnt dragon ball Z. They run around with photon weapons for a reason. If they didn't need them then the Knuckle weapon would simply be Bare Fists.

[ This Message was edited by: RemiusTA on 2008-04-08 16:38 ]

*ahem*

Spinning Strike, final hit in the full combo, is the kick lobby emoticon.

Coincidentally, it is quite hilarious to send a foe flying away with a kick to the face.

Zorafim

Apr 8, 2008, 07:10 PM

On 2008-04-08 16:33, RemiusTA wrote:
I know people who can swing 20 pound weapons.

I highly doubt they can punch through concrete, though.

Can they slay a dragon? If they can't slay a dragon, they can't be used for a comparison.

Weeaboolits

Apr 8, 2008, 07:22 PM

Not just slay a dragon, they have to do it easily.

zanotam

Apr 8, 2008, 08:22 PM

PSO>PSU, because even on an amazing system, this game is so poorly coded that even on lowest graphic settings, a relatively up to date video card, and 2 gigs of memory, you encounter severe lag (Mother brain FTL!) and then there is the horrid lag caused once again by shoddy programming that causes my resta to hit AFTER I'm dead, or a attack to do damage to me several second after it 'hits' etc. Switching systems helps, but only so much.

SStrikerR

Apr 8, 2008, 08:23 PM

I hate loading times for psu, and needed a lot of wands/rods wasting my space when in pso I could use any tech with a saber or something.
(And if the lag is bad enough my char randomly high-fives with his weapon equipped for no damn reason XD)

Aorre

Apr 8, 2008, 08:53 PM

Barehanded was awesome. The damage cancel online wasn't.

Telina

Apr 8, 2008, 09:14 PM

I liked PSO's system better, but explaining why kinda delves outside of what the OP asked for. Buuuuut, because we're on the intrawebz, your gonna see it anyway http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

I liked the idea of only really needing one or two weapons period. That way, you could make the really good weapons much more rare because once you found one, you really didn't need to hunt any more. But now you have to hunt 3-4 psycho wand boards, 1.3 stacks of diads and 40 relic edges to get by.

And back on topic i like it more when your casting from a mana pool that is from your character. Not your weapon, that way only the higher level characters can/should be able to use high mp (tp/pp) spells often. Besides, what really is stoping hunters and gunners from casting spells now? It seems like their inabliity to hold a rod, which is stupid cause if you can hold a spear, you can hold a rod.

darkante

Apr 8, 2008, 10:29 PM

On 2008-04-08 14:25, RemiusTA wrote:

Bare Hands casting really was just for looking cool anyway. In PSO it was completely inefficient.

[ This Message was edited by: RemiusTA on 2008-04-08 14:31 ]

I disagree. Barehanded made it cast like you were wearing a Quick/unit on a Fonewman. Usually unless a weapon gives a butload in the magic department, i sticked around with barehand and annihilated the enemy.

Sinue_v2

Apr 9, 2008, 12:18 AM

I really don't care for the pallet system in regards to Techniques, although the situation has improved quite a bit with the implementation of off-hand technique weapons. Now they just need to figure out a quick and efficient way of refilling a single weapon of a paired dual without either wasting half your Photon Charge on an already fully charged weapon or spending valuable time navigating menus to pick out a specific weapon (especially if you have multiple of the same weapon) and recharging it manually.

I personally like the concept of having every spell my characters learn being castable regardless of what weapon I'm using. Especially since I like mixing it up seamlessly between casting offensive/supportive magic and offensive melee. Having to switch weapons is a bit cumbersome in this regard - especially if, as said, you're on a PS2. Thankfully I'm not, but I do have a rather slow internet connection - and when playing online, the lag will very ocassionally "pause" the weapon switching process since I assume it's checked at the server. That, and it just looks pretty stupid to have a buffed out melee character or manly gunner pull out an all too feminine looking wand between point-blank shotguns to monster faces. But then again, at least the wands match their clothes in that regard. At least GRM's wands offered a bit of relief to this.

I do like the concept of leveling up techniques as opposed to arbitrarily finding higher level disks at random. But I also feel PSU would be much better served by splitting the techniques up individually between the various technique casting classes. Rather than the simple "Attack" "Support" designation, they should split techniques up somewhat similar to how weapons are split up and impose their own individual level caps.

Also, I'm a bit biased towards the old TP gauge as well as mono/di/trifluids. I simply see no need to change them up, especially since they were such staple Phantasy Star items. Same with Telepipes. Why replace them with crystals? There's no point. It didn't add anything new or fresh to the game, but only served to further strip something uniquely "phantasy star" out of this phantasy star game. They could have had the exact same purpose as the crystals. Enter a block, activate the pre-waiting "pipe" and use that to warp. Granted, it's a bit different in the context of PP and charges and whatnot - since there's an "explanation" behind it (which really isn't much better than simply saying it's pure mental energy or Chi or whatever), but to be honest - I don't like the whole idea of Photons in general either. Not only are they stupidly over-used for every single widely varying application making them pretty much purely "magical" in their own right, it all goes back to the "Light and the Darkness" - and their ancient battle. The problem is, the contrast has always existed between Science and Gods. Between the physical and the Metaphysical. I think that's why the classic PS/PSO's storylines were more interesting to me - because they added in a very "H.P. Lovecraftish" theme of ancient unknowable gods awakening and wreaking havok upon societies built on science and logic. It was a threat beyond mortal comprehension, and all the advances in science and technology were completely useless against them. The characters had to adopt the metaphysical means themselves to overcome the dark god. In PSU (and PSO to a degree) it almost seems that they're trying reconcile the Physical and Metaphysical by giving the gods physical properties which are understood and exploited by science. IMO, this destroys the mystique and the threat the gods represent - turning them into just another "force of nature" to be conquered and exploited.

Not to mention that trying to reconcile the physical and metaphysical usually ends up making the explanation sound pretty unbelievable and lame anyhow. Hearing about "Photons" reacting to "Spirit Energy" reminds me of those self-help "Crystal Power" new-age mysticism douchebags.

Zorafim

Apr 9, 2008, 01:47 AM

On 2008-04-08 22:18, Sinue_v2 wrote:
Rather than the simple "Attack" "Support" designation, they should split techniques up somewhat similar to how weapons are split up and impose their own individual level caps.

I tend to agree. I find it slightly unfair that I'm limited by what weapon I have access to, but forces aren't. I think it'd be neat if acrotechers had a higher level cap of simple techs than the other techs, and lower Nos techs. And fortefighter would specialize in the slower, heavier techs, and a lower cap on the quicker simple techs. Something to make techers in line with meleers and gunners.

Either that, or give me a class with high stats and good weapon access, but can only use one element of techs, guns, blades, and armors.

Finalzone

Apr 9, 2008, 02:09 AM

Ah the classical complain about PSO vs PSU? It is really amuzing to see some post think PSU = PSO 2.0. Does that mean the players of today are incapable to adapt their style in consequence? Does that mean we should go back to the text based RPG to settle the dispute?

F-Gattaca

Apr 9, 2008, 03:08 AM

While I'd like to contribute to the main topic, I'm uh ... lacking in any experience of how Forces worked in PSO. In PSO:BB I played with only one character--myself--primarily due to the fact that I was playing the game from a keyboard and quickly found that only a few weapons proved effective with my setup.

On PSU, I have my Acrotecher alt, and I like how he handles ... but I have nothing to compare him to.

Sinue_v2: As far as the telepipes and lack of Ryuker goes, my out-of-character guess is that ST couldn't figure out a way to make them work with the way PSU is set up. I mean, in PSO, Pioneer 2/The Labs/etc. were all instanced areas. You could have all four players put up pipes.

It's ... not so feasible for PSU. Yeah, many of our servers are as deserted as Rozenom, but in the case of a crowded lobby it wouldn't work out. There'd be no space for it. Maybe they could have worked something out with a mission terminal option to teleport directly to your pipe. Maybe they can still do that for an expansion. Who knows; ask 'em about it.

And honestly ... While I can kind of see how you feel about the direction that PSO and PSU took the whole of Phantasy Star in, I don't think they ruined the theme at all. After all ... Wren/Forren took on Dark Force and the Profound Darkness with weapons of science and--from what I can remember--he was just as effective as Chez/Rudy with Elysion, or Rune/Thray with his pure Esper magic. There was a harmony between the two in many ways.

Meanwhile--remember Sue in PSO? "Science and technology, it's not as mighty as many people believe." Then there was Dark Falz, who punished Coral's colonists for trying to weaponize it, in the sense of 'you play with fire and you get burned.'

To me, Sue's sentiments as a newman gave foreshadowing to the current state of the newman race in PSU--united under a planetary theocracy and the foundation of Gurhal's dominant religion. They haven't forgotten the reasons for which the humans engineered them (after all, they did develop the LSS and are still very active as a race in the field of science). However, they still provide a counterpoint to CAST Supremacists, who take rationalism to extremes and heap scorn on those--even other CASTs--who have a sense of faith or spirituality.

That theme is repeated in information about the downfall of the civilization that produced the RELICs--that it fell after they abandoned their spirituality. The A-Photons are linked to the SEED, and any civilization tampering with them is kind of like chanting "Hastur, hastur, hastur!" in a Lovecraft world. Tomrain certainly acts like a man who just unleashed Cthulu anyway.

Sinue_v2

Apr 9, 2008, 04:08 AM

Sinue_v2: As far as the telepipes and lack of Ryuker goes, my out-of-character guess is that ST couldn't figure out a way to make them work with the way PSU is set up. I mean, in PSO, Pioneer 2/The Labs/etc. were all instanced areas. You could have all four players put up pipes.

But that's assuming they work the same way they did in PSO. I'm not saying that. I'm saying, use the crystal system that's in place, but change the graphic and call it by another name. It doesn't even have to LOOK like a telepipe from PSO. They could just make it look like a standard teleporter you activate upon reaching a new area. I'm not necessarily advocating a change in the gameplay mechanic (although there are ways to make it work) - but rather commenting on simple design choices.

As for the theme, I'll keep it brief since this is OT for the discussion an we can continue it elsewhere. It's true that Wren could damage the Darkness with technology based weapons - but he could not defeat it, as only the Elysion had the power to strike the killing blow. And none of them, not even Wren, could have stood up to the PD if it weren't for the rings of the stars which protected them. Indeed, it may have forced the Profound Darkness into a physical body in order to try to eliminate the heros since the rings "protected against the largest part of the profound darkness's power". Else the PD would have just wiped them out at any time by it's sheer will - like the Dark Energy Wave. A physical form leaves it open to physical attack. So in a way, even Wren turned to the metaphysical in his battle.

In-so-far as PSO, I really should have marked my appreciation for it's storyline with an asterick, as only up to about Ep II was fairly good. I didn't care for Ep III or BB's storylines very much. And I never really cared for "photons" back then either. Even so, I've always seen the "usage" of the Dark God by Coralian scientists as more of a mistake than anything. They didn't really have a true understanding of what D-Factor was or what caused it - they only saw it's potential in altering cellular function - making D-Cells and mutated creatures. They certainly couldn't control that mutation, however, hence Beta 772 and Olga Flow. And, as you said, their research backfired. Although not quite a 'you play with fire and you get burned.' I believe Osto and others were "lured" into their research by the Darkness as a means of propogating chaos, death, and negative emotions on the planet on which Dark Falz drew strength. Even in PSO you were presented with several instances of possession or suggestion by Dark Falz - such as the hunters attacking you in "From the Depths", or Ult's behavior in Soul of Steel.

In PSU, it feels rather different. Photon technology is no longer a new field, it's well versed - and intricately linked to a person's spiritual energy (which it wasn't in PSO IIRC). To get around the problem of weak-spirited people not being able to compensate for the energy needed for more intesive tasks (like powering starships) they created A-Photons through a process of "copolymerization". This basically stripped a photon down to it's basest energy form - which attracted the SEED that consumes A-Photons. With them, came the SEED-Virus. Although not curable (yet), this virus is treatable (for the most part) through a chemical synthesis found in Lunga livers. So for all intents and purposes, this "virus" - if indeed a manifestation of the Dark God is able to be held at bay by simple animal byproducts?

And as for the Ancient Civilization and the Communion, that's part of what I'm talking about. They're trying to reconcile technology and spirituality together. I, personally, much prefered it when Mysticism and Technology were seen as polar opposites. Yes, you have the COG and the AMF as opposites - but the vast majority of the game falls between these extremes in which spirituality is understood and is compatible with technology. Indeed, it's a technology of it's own. Whereas in previous titles, the two existed side by side - but were always still quite seperate and very far removed from each other.

[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2008-04-09 02:15 ]

LuigiMario

Apr 10, 2008, 08:02 AM

PSO Wins.

-Chilly

Apr 10, 2008, 08:23 AM

Nothing will change but I did prefer BB's shortcut menu, 1-0 so nice... I vote for PSO http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Ithildin

Apr 10, 2008, 08:25 AM

You don't have to switch weps to heal anyway. On my FT I have resta always attached to w/e wep I'm using cos I like to support my party. I don't think importing a PSO tech style into PSU would work at all. As it has been mentioned before we have PP now not TP.

RemiusTA

Apr 10, 2008, 01:13 PM

Bottom line is, if PSO's technique system was implemented into PSU it would be absolutely horrible. TP + PSU = complete failure. With the pallete system you can basically have instant access to all your spells at once, instead of having to switch in the customization menu (which is basically the same thing as in PSU, except you technically have a pallete fulll of different customizations.)

I really dont know why people cant tell the obvious similarities in PSO and PSU's style of customizing and pallet equipping. Its the same thing, except PSU basically allows you to customize about 6 different sets when it comes to spells. When it comes to melee weapons its a different story however becuase of the inclusion of Photon Arts, but in general PSU's melee and gunning system blows PSO's out the effing water on so many accounts it isnt even worth mentioning.

For technics however, neither is better because neither would work in the other's gameplay setting. You use more than just Gifoie, Rabarta/Gizonde and Resta in PSU. There are just far too many more spells and situations to use them in. For a player who knows what their doing and equips the correct pallete for the stage their entering, there is absolutely no problem.

Why the hell hasn't anyone figured that out yet.

Edit: anyone who complains about lag or load times on this game really can go to hell. Or just get a graphics card that can decently run Halo. Nobody is complaining about losing 5k damage a miniute to Damage Cancel or having to Ryuker for Trifluids and Difluids 8 times a run, Or the fact that every force weapon aside from Hildebears Cane or is absolutely positively 100% useless, so we dont need to hear your PSU hate slanders mkay?

Edit for clarity: Oh yeah and then theres the fact that about 70% of the techniques on PSO were useless anyway. Gibarta sucked, Rafoie sucked, Razonde sucked, and for anyone who actually attacked to KILL EFFICIENTLY, Megid and Grants sucked as well. And since Gizonde was so much better than it ill go ahead and say Zonde sucked too. Dont delude yourself by saying "MAN THEY LOOKED SO COOL" because they still sucked.

[ This Message was edited by: RemiusTA on 2008-04-10 11:27 ]

rogue_robot

Apr 10, 2008, 01:24 PM

On 2008-04-10 06:25, Ithildin wrote:
You don't have to switch weps to heal anyway. On my FT I have resta always attached to w/e wep I'm using cos I like to support my party. I don't think importing a PSO tech style into PSU would work at all. As it has been mentioned before we have PP now not TP.

Maybe for you, but certainly not for GTs/WTs/offline HUnters/offline RAngers, who actually use something other than non-techer weapons along with their techs. And as hybrids are my preferred play style in basically any RPG with a customized player character, I felt a huge difference in the smoothness of casting between PSO and this. PSU's entire casting system just feels extremely clunky by comparison in my opinion, even with the better handling of elemental types and resistances.

Of course, they might have chosen to implement it this way in an attempt to be fair to the HUnter / RAnger hybrid classes, who would have to switch weapons either way, and as an added bonus not need the extra TP gauge, since they were aiming for a highly simplistic battle system. Otherwise, they would have to have allowed non-hybrids and non-techer hybrids something to make up for the small advantage of not having to switch weapons yet still being hybrid that techer-based hybrids would have - or, they would have had to slightly slow down hybrid techers' casting speed, enough to make a difference when trying to spam (enemies could break through), but not when dropping a single [Gi]Resta / GiZonde / GiBarta to save your own ass.

RemiusTA

Apr 10, 2008, 01:42 PM

If someone can explain how PSO's technique system would work over PSU's weapon binding system than please explain.

I can easily show you the similarities if you like.

PSO, 6 slots to put things. For a HuMar that uses spells (i dont know why they would unless it was resta but whatever) you would have Normal attack, Hard attack, Resta, some kind of Mate, and perhaps some kind of fluid. And also perhaps Foie.

2 slots for attack, 2 slots for healing, 2 spots for spells. Thats how my pallete was setup, anyway for the most convinent of situations.

PSU equivilent of a HuMar that uses spells would be a Saber in one hand and a Madoog in the other. Lets change the PSU setup into PSO setup.

Attack (slot 1), Just attack (dont need an extra button, but we call it Slot 2), Photon Art (Slot 3), Technic 1 (slot 4) Technic 2 (Slot 5)..

thats about 5 slots, if you dont count the Just Attack then whatever, its 4. Your missing the mates which took up 2 slots on my PSO Customization pallete.

Well, then you have the Item pallete, which holds far more than 2 healing items. So here we have about 6 extra slots that can be accessed within the second, just as quick as PSO's holding R and pressing the button. In PSO, if we wanted to switch spells to use (i dont know why you would, once again), we would go into customize and switch them. Well, you COULD do that in PSU, but all you really need to do would be to use the pallet and swich weapons, which comes with an extra 2 spells.

I dont see how the PSO system is more convenient than that when its technically the same thing. The only arguement here is that PSOBB had the 10 extra Quick slots for anything you wanted, which anyone would admit is effing useful, but also would be highly unfair in PSU's case since the restriction on technic availability is also used for class balancing.

so, like i SAID, Neither is better because neither would work in the others environment. PSO's casting system would not work in PSU's without breaking a ton of balances and systems.

SO, im just going to venture to say that everyone who thinks the PSO system would work in PSU are the people who keep complaining about how the magic in PSO magically looks and works better than in PSU (which is a COMPLETLEY DIFFERENT GAME) and how PSU is, also, magically technically inferior to the 7 year old dreamcast broken PSO and sucks because they play on the PS2 when they could play on PC or 360 and their character MAGICALLY "high fives" instead of does the action you tell him to.

...And i have never had my character randomlly "high five" when i tell it to do something.

[ This Message was edited by: RemiusTA on 2008-04-10 11:49 ]

rogue_robot

Apr 10, 2008, 01:46 PM

Two-hand / twin weapons. Not every hybrid runs around with effing sabers - and opening the palette to switch weapons is no different than menu-fishing forinfrequently used techs in PSO, just a little faster.

RemiusTA

Apr 10, 2008, 01:54 PM

Its far faster.

So, Hybrids are complaining that they cant use technics while using Twin Sabers, Daggers, Handguns, ect ect.

Okay, i read it wrong. But it still doesn't mean PSO's system would work, either. Its really quite simple why you cant use technics while using a weapon that takes two hands, and thats because you require a technic weapon to cast them. This goes back to the whole "PSU IS NOT PSO" arguement. If you are using a 2-handed weapon in PSU, for what reason do you need to use a technic? Also, how hard is it to simply switch to a one handed weapon + technic weapon to use technic?

Ive never heard of a Fortetecher complain that they cant use technics while wielding a Bow. For what reason would you need to use a technic while wielding a bow? Your supposed to be SHOOTING.

Im still not understanding the arguement, people.

[ This Message was edited by: RemiusTA on 2008-04-10 11:55 ]

rogue_robot

Apr 10, 2008, 02:31 PM

And, given that we appear to approach teching in two completely different ways, you likely never will, regardless of what I say. I'm not saying the way you prefer to approach teching is wrong or anything, just as I would hope you wouldn't say mine is, I'm just saying that our teching styles are far different - PSO better suits mine, where I keep one or two common techs available at the push of a button, without having to take any extra time switch to a different weapon (and accepting the associated less tech attack power for not having a techer weapon equipped), while yours seems to be unaffected by the differences in the two games.

As for your bow example, as I've said many times already - [Gi]Resta. I don't like the added delay of having to switch weapons just so I can use my healing tech - in fact, in PSU, I tend to play pure HUnters or hybrid HUnter/RAngers - even my main who I play as an almost pure techer in every other RPG with customizable characters I've played - just because PSU's tech system feels so damn inconvenient and clunky to me, providing nothing that isn't more efficiently accomplished with a combination of bullets, skills and 'mates, given the way I play (except for level 21+ buffs).

panzer_unit

Apr 10, 2008, 02:39 PM

On 2008-04-10 11:46, rogue_robot wrote:
Two-hand / twin weapons. Not every hybrid runs around with effing sabers - and opening the palette to switch weapons is no different than menu-fishing forinfrequently used techs in PSO, just a little faster.

Color-coded icons and scrolling with triggers rather than a digital pad on the same side of the controller as your movement stick makes PSU's palette way more efficient than PSO's. There's no "what page am I on" and "are my weapons/items in the same order as I left them" to check for while trying to steer your character around enemy attacks. Morting my weapons, consumables, and tech list in PSO would let me access the top and bottom three of each pretty conveniently... but no more than switching weapons in PSU, especially for repeated casting or any kind of directional attack.

To your point about hybrid characters and weapon selections in PSU in terms of PSO...
If you use a Sword instead of a Saber, you're choosing to play your "Hunter" (regardless of race) in "HUcast" mode as opposed to "HUmar". There's no offline job/race choice that forbids you from using techniques: the difference between PSO casters and non-casters falls to your weapon choice and palette setup. Swords and Sabers both have a single target PA. They both have a multi-target PA. The difference is Sword (any two-handed weapon) has way more ATP and stronger moves, Saber (any one-handed weapon) allows you to mix it up with casting techniques or shooting a gun.

The same choices exist online for the classes with tech access... and they're increased by additional jobs that match the 'casts' of PSO with access to traps instead of techniques. Just choosing to throw a sword on your palette and use it isn't a very big commitment compared to changing jobs and ranking up to the point where your stats are good. I still see both as the equivalent of rolling a new character in PSO if you want higher stats or use of traps at the expense of being able to use resta instead of trimate. How's THAT for convenient?

[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-04-10 12:50 ]

DraginHikari

Apr 10, 2008, 04:17 PM

PSO's system to me felt even more limiting. How in the hell does someone cast offensive techs from the PSO menu? I never managed to that, it became more manageable in BB with the 1-9 Macro buttons but still...

rogue_robot

Apr 10, 2008, 04:41 PM

Extremely inconvenient, panzer, as I'm one of the people who likes to micromanage my characters' development, rather than have specific things force-fed to me.

In PSO, I could at least wield my axe or twin daggers and still use my common techs without having to fish through the palettes. In PSU, that isn't an option. As I just said, this comes down to one of those matters of personal play style.

Finalzone

Apr 12, 2008, 02:01 AM

On 2008-04-10 11:24, rogue_robot wrote:
Maybe for you, but certainly not for GTs/WTs/offline HUnters/offline RAngers, who actually use something other than non-techer weapons along with their techs. And as hybrids are my preferred play style in basically any RPG with a customized player character, I felt a huge difference in the smoothness of casting between PSO and this. PSU's entire casting system just feels extremely clunky by comparison in my opinion, even with the better handling of elemental types and resistances.

For once and for all, PSU is no PSO 2.0. I speak as former WT player (now PT) who is adapting the style depending the circumstance. Hybrid job will not get fast cast compared other jobs like Acotechers. Learn to effectively play them by knowing each strengths and weaknesses and the complain will stop.

Finalzone

Apr 12, 2008, 02:16 AM

On 2008-04-10 14:41, rogue_robot wrote:
Extremely inconvenient, panzer, as I'm one of the people who likes to micromanage my characters' development, rather than have specific things force-fed to me.

In PSO, I could at least wield my axe or twin daggers and still use my common techs without having to fish through the palettes. In PSU, that isn't an option. As I just said, this comes down to one of those matters of personal play style.

It sounds like you played PSO:BB where 1-0 buttons are reserved for extras customization palettes. In other PSOs, such configuration is not possible. In PSU, such configuration will entirely ruins balance of jobs. You are not supposed to cast and waving 2 handed weapons at the same time, I am glad such micromanagement is gone to prevent the ruins of balance of jobs.

Weeaboolits

Apr 12, 2008, 02:25 AM

An alternative solution: Fix the damn load times.

I don't like having to have my resta out AT ALL TIMES in order for it to be of any use at all.

rogue_robot

Apr 12, 2008, 11:16 AM

On 2008-04-12 00:16, Finalzone wrote:

On 2008-04-10 14:41, rogue_robot wrote:
Extremely inconvenient, panzer, as I'm one of the people who likes to micromanage my characters' development, rather than have specific things force-fed to me.

In PSO, I could at least wield my axe or twin daggers and still use my common techs without having to fish through the palettes. In PSU, that isn't an option. As I just said, this comes down to one of those matters of personal play style.

It sounds like you played PSO:BB where 1-0 buttons are reserved for extras customization palettes. In other PSOs, such configuration is not possible. In PSU, such configuration will entirely ruins balance of jobs. You are not supposed to cast and waving 2 handed weapons at the same time, I am glad such micromanagement is gone to prevent the ruins of balance of jobs.

Actually, I only ever played PSO GC, and - as I said earlier - I still preferred its control setup to PSU's.

I said that my preference for PSO's style simply comes my personal approach to teching - which doesn't have to exactly match yours to be correct. All I ever play (as my mains) are hybrid and pure casters, but as a matter of personal taste, I find PSU's casting system to be too damn irritating and clunky to put in the effort. Don't force your opinion on me like it's a matter of fact and don't try to pass off my opinions on something as a lack of skill. It's not a matter of me learning to effectively play hybrid techers in PSU. I know how to effectively play a hybrid techer in PSU. I just don't like it, so I choose not to do it.

Oh, and the "PSU isn't PSO 2" comment? I never said it was - I just said I prefer PSO's teching to PSU's. Don't put words into my mouth. And speaking of putting words in my mouth, I never asked for fast-casting either. In fact, had you actually read the full topic, you would have seen that I even suggested that hybrids, in a system where they could use two-hand/twin striking/ranged weapons while teching, might have a slight decrease in casting speed (though not as severe as the delay caused by the constant weapon swapping in this game).

Lastly, balancing hybrids casting while wielding two-hand striking/ranged weapons is entirely possible until it's proven in all cases beyond any shadow of a doubt otherwise. It just requires a lot more effort to pull off.

EDIT: My whole point has been what Ronin said. I don't like having to bind my [Gi]Resta to every wand/madoog on my palette, and give up my two-hand/twin weapons, for it to be of any effect mid-battle, while I've still got enemies breathing down my neck.

[ This Message was edited by: rogue_robot on 2008-04-12 09:19 ]

RemiusTA

Apr 12, 2008, 01:42 PM

Dude, this is the stupidest arguement ever.

You need to heal while wielding twin weapons?

PALLETE --> TRIMATE.

darkante

Apr 12, 2008, 01:51 PM

On 2008-04-12 11:42, RemiusTA wrote:
Dude, this is the stupidest arguement ever.

You need to heal while wielding twin weapons?

PALLETE --> TRIMATE.

That´s true but you shouldn´t need to when you have access to other means of healing.
But because of the lag, it really screws up the stragegi involved with the class.

Criss

Apr 12, 2008, 02:04 PM

I prefer the PSO style only as far as style and appearances are concerned.

Gameplay wise, PSU is much better. No need to rely on your own char's TP, just switch weapons if you're out of PP, and you get many more techs on your palette.

And weapon switch lag is not an excuse, play on PC version. Better performance, better resolution, reconfigurable controls.

rogue_robot

Apr 12, 2008, 02:06 PM

"Palette --> Trimate" is what I do. I'm just saying that those who have access to [Gi]Resta should not be required to use 'mates over their techs, just because of some stupid weapon swap rule.

The only reason this argument is so stupid is that a number of people here keep trying to press their opinions on me as facts, put words in my mouth, and blatantly ignore everything I say (or only seeing what they want to see in it).

EDIT: Oh, and for those who keep saying "weapon switch lag is not an excuse," I do play on PC - a PC capable of running Oblivion and Supreme Commander with only a minimum tolerable slowdown - and I still have to wait as much as 2 or 3 seconds for techs to load (sometimes even after I already pulled out the wand/rod/madoog in that room). Bad programming is bad programming.

(EDIT 2: Of course, the double lag only happens with the tech it loads second when I use the tech it loads first and then switch back between loading the techs, and even then, it's not very frequent. I'm just getting frustrated with this whole "lolusuck" and "stop playing on ps2" bullshit.)

[ This Message was edited by: rogue_robot on 2008-04-12 12:11 ]

[ This Message was edited by: rogue_robot on 2008-04-12 12:16 ]

darkante

Apr 12, 2008, 02:08 PM

On 2008-04-12 12:04, Criss wrote:
I prefer the PSO style only as far as style and appearances are concerned.

Gameplay wise, PSU is much better. No need to rely on your own char's TP, just switch weapons if you're out of PP, and you get many more techs on your palette.

And weapon switch lag is not an excuse, play on PC version. Better performance, better resolution, reconfigurable controls.

I still experience weapon switch lag issue on my PC but everything else runs fine on the game. :S

Finalzone

Apr 13, 2008, 11:21 PM

On 2008-04-12 12:06, rogue_robot wrote:
"Palette --> Trimate" is what I do. I'm just saying that those who have access to [Gi]Resta should not be required to use 'mates over their techs, just because of some stupid weapon swap rule.

It has nothing to do with these problems, it has to do with your style of play.

The only reason this argument is so stupid is that a number of people here keep trying to press their opinions on me as facts, put words in my mouth, and blatantly ignore everything I say (or only seeing what they want to see in it).
Isn't it hypocrite for your part to state that when you have a share of responsibility by trying to impose your style as well.? We can go a long way to argue about these details but it will go nowhere.

EDIT: Oh, and for those who keep saying "weapon switch lag is not an excuse," I do play on PC - a PC capable of running Oblivion and Supreme Commander with only a minimum tolerable slowdown - and I still have to wait as much as 2 or 3 seconds for techs to load (sometimes even after I already pulled out the wand/rod/madoog in that room). Bad programming is bad programming.

(EDIT 2: Of course, the double lag only happens with the tech it loads second when I use the tech it loads first and then switch back between loading the techs, and even then, it's not very frequent. I'm just getting frustrated with this whole "lolusuck" and "stop playing on ps2" bullshit.)
What about network issue? Offline mode has no problem at all.

RemiusTA

Apr 14, 2008, 12:24 AM

You know with every solution we submit on this thread someone comes up with another excuse, so i just give up.

Hey, if Trimates are too much of a hassle for you, and your oblivion PC (my old one could barely run Halo at a decent framerate and did perfectly fine with the technic loads) cant load your stuff quick enough, and your mad your Hybrid class cant spam Giresta, then im just so sorry but nobody but you and the PSO General > Cult cares. I enjoy my balanced classes thank you very much.

Nobody is requiring you to use Trimates, its just nobody understands what the hell you guys are mad about. First your mad you cant cast technics with no weapon, then you switch and say your mad that the system isnt the Customization from PSO, then you switch again and say your mad there is no quick list, then you switch AGAIN and complain about weapon lag.

There is no point arguing.

THE PSO SYSTEM IS FAR BETTER DAMN I WISH PSO SYSTEM WAS ON PSU BECAUSE PSU's SYSTEM IS INFERIOR AND MAKES NO SENSE AND THE PSO'S WAS FAR MORE SIMPLISTIC AND WORKED AND LOOKED COOL AND WAS UBER BALANCED

There, can we lock the topic now?

Edit: i mean shit, it was obvious the creater of the topic was biased on the opinion curve in the first place based on what he wrote as the header. This was destined to be another pointless arguement and BAWWWW-party.

[ This Message was edited by: RemiusTA on 2008-04-13 22:27 ]

panzer_unit

Apr 14, 2008, 10:44 AM

On 2008-04-12 12:06, rogue_robot wrote:
"Palette --> Trimate" is what I do. I'm just saying that those who have access to [Gi]Resta should not be required to use 'mates over their techs, just because of some stupid weapon swap rule.

I ran into the same thing switching from ForteFighter/ForteGunner to WarTecher/GunTecher... the fix for quick access to resta is that you make the CHOICE to put it there. Set your palette up that way, using a one-handed equivalent of the attack you want and a madoog or wand for tech access.
Yes you won't hit as hard. Temporarily losing resta access is the "game balance" for the amount of firepower that two-handed weapons have.

It's comparable to class/race choices in PSO... the guys who had resta on tap were a lot weaker. That difference isn't nearly as big between WT (HUmar) and FI (HUcast) if they're using the same equipment, but in addition to stat differences the WT will usually use a less-offensive TCSM+one-hand melee combination because it keeps Resta/Reverser close by. All you're being "force-fed" are tactical choices.

[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-04-14 09:05 ]