Twin Sabers, Swords, and general PA questions to the fighter

[Mio]

Greetings PSOW hunters,

I was a gunner basically from day one, and I really never experienced more than the basic hunter class long time ago in the melee department, while I experienced the force class (to my disliking).

This means I'm really a newbie in the melee department, but I want to give it a try.

Due to the way melee weapons works, meaning you have to synth multiple elements of it, I want to be sure to select my weapons and PA correctly to have a good melee experience.

Because I value more experienced people arguments and hints, I'm making this post, hoping to not get the answer "try them all".

So basically, I tried fighunner to not go too much against the gunner concept, but I guess I want to try Fortefighter as well.

So far the weapons that I like aestetically are three: Twin Sabers, Swords and Axes.

Wich Kind of PA should I train to be versatile if I plan to use only that three kind of weapons? And in what situation I should use them?

Thanks for the hints, I'm very confused with the melee PAs.

[Legendria]

Twin Saber - Cross Hurricane. Splendor Crush is definetly second place, but it doesn't suck. Don't even bother at all with the NPC pa skills. They both suck major ass.

Sword - I'm on the fence. Honestly, Tornado Break is the most useful since they added the extra target, but Spinning Break is freaking awesome if you have a Svaltus Sword. I'd avoid Gravity Break.

Axes - JaBROKEN. Don't touch teh other two. If you want to use it before getting the 99 frag skill, try Redda.

[Umberger]

On 2008-04-30 17:19, Legendria wrote:
Twin Saber - Cross Hurricane. Splendor Crush is definetly second place, but it doesn't suck. Don't even bother at all with the NPC pa skills. They both suck major ass.



Assault Crush would like to have a word with you.

[Legendria]

Ok, the last hit of Assault Crush is decent. Levels 1 - 20 are extremely lame and damn near useless, though. Use at your own peril.

[Darkly]

On 2008-04-30 17:29, Legendria wrote:
Ok, the last hit of Assault Crush is decent. Levels 1 - 20 are extremely lame and damn near useless, though. Use at your own peril.



i'm probably wrong but it has very high, if not highest single target DPS.

Also i'm sick of the argument 1-20 sucks

so what? most things suck early on anyway but people seem to keep on acting like all there PA's are 17 or something.

also the move itself is a great party friendly damage dealer. Knock-up instead of knock-back means you can spam all you like and people won't hate you!

[Mio]

What's the correct name of "Jabroken" ?

As for now, the only high melee PA I have is Rising Crush, to level 3x. I guess it's not a useful one http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif
Ok then I suppose a good setting could be:

Twin Saber + Assault Crush = Single target big mobs such as bill'de bear
Axe + "Jabroken" = AOE big damage for slow but powerfull multihit PA
Sword + Tornado Break = Faster AOE (compared to axe) with good area

Against who I should use the Cross Hurricane? I saw it in action and I love how it looks.

[Zorafim]

Both Jabroga and Dugrega are great skills for axe. jabroga can do insane amounts of damage if used and leveled correctly, and dugrega can be priceless against large enemies. Redda, you can skip out on.

For sword, the only one I like is Tornado Break. It hits a huge number of enemies compared to other AoE PAs, and has the best range as well. The damage is kind of lacking, though.

For twin sabers, Rising Crush is pretty useful if you don't have a similar PA in your palette. Assault Crush has an incredible amount of damage potential, and comes out incredibly fast (I should try it out on an acro class...). The two frag PAs don't seem good enough to warrant their slow speed, and even if they did they don't do anything special anyway.


That's my experience with them.

[biggabertha]

Twin Swords (Twin Sabers in game) are a nice, versatile weapon. Their normal attacks are fairly fast attacking - certainly the fastest of the three weapons you've mentioned but also, they regain the lowest amount of PP of the three you've chosen from a full combo (unless you use Crea Swords {Crea Sabers in-game} in which case they gain LOADS). Twin Swords can be used fairly well on all forms of enemies including bosses without suffering too much.

As for the PAs for Twin Swords, the contenders are: Rising Crush, Assault Crush, Spendour Crush (I think it's Splendor Crush in-game) and Cross Hurricane.

Rising Crush is the cheapest and has the most defencive action of the four PAs for Twin Sabers, it's not the most functional though because the second part of the combo tends to knock enemies up and slightly away on PS2s, directly up on mid-end PCs. I do not know how it behaves on high end PCs with Frame Skip 0 but I've heard it can be annoying but otherwise, the third attack of the combo is awesome for wiping things out solo and dealing with dangerous enemies that can be knocked up. It seems best used in crowds but is trumped by both Assault Crush and Cross Hurricane for damage to large numbers of enemies.

Assault Crush deals a gargantuan amount of damage to single target creatures. Best used against Bil De Vears, Delnizen (not sure on the real spelling), Shinow Hidoki (again, not sure on actual spelling) and if you're dextrous enough, you can take out two medium sized enemies/bipeds very quickly. It takes a long time to level though but Assault Crush rewards those whom take the time to level it tremendously. Travels the furthest on high-end PCs on the last part of the combo but travels fairly far on a PS2.

Splendour Crush doesn't seem to measure up so well to the other three Twin Swords PAs because of the way the second part of the combo flings things away from you and all the hits of the third combo flings things away from you as well. Has it's place for bosses but for the same amount of time spent on it, you might as well use Cross Hurricane. Splendour Crush certainly looks the best to me but that's being biased.

Cross Hurricane is extremely powerful. Best used against anything that has multiple targets such as bosses but be warned that it takes a very long time to execute. If you go un-interrupted, you will deal an insane amount of damage so using against huge swathes of creatures or bosses are your best bet. Using it against large creatures such as Drua Gohra or Gol Dolva and you risk them interrupting you partway through the second combo or you'll find them running away from you.

Of those four, Cross Hurricane seems to level the fastest, followed by Rising Crush, Spendour Crush and then Assault Crush but they all level fairly quickly if you devote some time to Unsafe Passage A with some nice Dark Armour.



The three PAs for the LongSword are Tornado Break, Spinning Break and Gravity Break. The normal attacks from a LongSword are slow but not so that they're useless. They gain a very healthy amount of PP now that they hit four targets in the normal combo (five for Crea LongSwords) thus making Tenora LongSwords a viable option. LongSwords unfortunately, do not seem to fare well against bosses but are awesome for small enemies, medium sized enemies and large enemies with any number of target points.

Tornado Break is the most defencive of the three PAs and the cheapest. It gets stronger through the combo and knocks four targets back on the last part of the combo. Hits four targets throughout and is fairly accurate. If you're on a PS2, you'll be lucky to get this loaded in on time to knock enemies away from your force in emergencies and while they're buffing the team whilst enemies are around but on PCs, you should have no trouble at all. Certainly best used against small creatures or for damage if you repeatedly use the first two parts of the combo.

Spinning Break can immobilize medium sized quadrupeds by repeatedly using the combo. Quick to execute for a large weapon and has very nice damage. Best used against medium sized enemies clustered together such as Sendillians, Ollakas and most bipeds that cluster close together. Before Gravity Break was released, it was completely over-shadowed by Dus Daggas on a Lance and many other PAs in the game, it's also received a nice(ish) boost in damage and gained an extra target on the last part of the combo some time ago. It's useable but most would sneer at you for using it because everyone whom are able to use LongSwords, have better options in other weapons.

Gravity Break defines no-nonsense damage to single target creatures. If you can stand how slow it is, the insanely huge damage it causes on the first combo alone makes it seem godly powerful but don't be deceived. You need to Just Attack it in order to fully cause a huge amount of damage and there are weapons that do not leave you open to attack that cause similar damage. However, if you employ it skillfully, you can decimate Dilnazens without "surfing" on Dus Majillion (Dus Majarra in-game) or using Bogga Zubba. Doesn't seem to work so well on Bil de Vears and other single target enemies that spin or on multiple target enemies.

LongSwords requires that you Just Attack with them in order to benefit from the damage but their function as utility can sometimes out-weigh their damage. If you are going to use them for damage, I highly suggest that you forgo Just attacking from the first normal swing and instead Just Attack from the second part of the normal combo so you do not leave yourself as open as you would from the first or the last swings of the LongSword.


The Axe is simply the most devastating weapon in the game but it comes at a cost. It is THE slowest weapon without speed boost but it regains the most PP out of the three weapons you've chosen from a single target. The first and third normal attacks knock enemies straight down or cause them to collapse and this is a great defencive measure.

Anga Dugrega is the most versatile of the three Axe PAs but is on-par with Assault Crush for slow leveling speeds. It is one of the few PAs (if not the only PA) that has knockback from the first combo from a single hit and is extremely useful against creatures such as Komatoze or Kog Nadds. It deals a devastatingly large amount of damage to two targets and is able to completely control them. Awesome for both solo and team games if you're mindful of what you are doing. Anga Dugrega used to be my only defence against the fast Go Vahras but on PS2, you are likely to miss your mark on the second combo because you don't jump far enough. It's been slightly tweaked now so that the hit box is larger but again, if you're on a PC, you should have no trouble with this PA other than getting it to maximum combo level. I find it very useful for dealing with any dangerous enemy that my team cannot handle but I've been spoilt by Anga Jabroga now.

Anga Redda is a straight damage dealer for the Axe but it is very slow compared to other weapons. Dus Daggas, Dus Majillion and many other weapon PAs deal much more damage in the same amount of time as Anga Redda. The three things Anga Redda has going for it, are looks, leveling speed and the ability to cancel out Bil de Vear spins (provided you do not miss). The second part of the combo to Anga Redda starts them spinning but the third part knocks them out of it. I'm too scared to try this out on a Kagajibari though...

The correct name of Jabroken is Anga Jabroga and it can be obtained for the maximum number of PA fragments (or very close to it) from the Dagora HQ Branch on Moatoob. This is best used at it's highest level your class can manage and against four or five targets at a time. It deals THE most damage for a single attack of all the PAs in the game but also has the biggest drawback - the wind up time. It clocks in at around seven seconds to fully execute and be able to move again and within that time frame, a stray stomp, any attack that causes you to flinch or block, interrupts it completely. Cue your team to help you or you will have to learn enemy behaviour and spawn patterns to fully utilise this PA solo. It decimates bosses in a few hits if they are not resistant to melee damage and one-shots almost any small or medium sized enemy if you use the correct element Axe with it.


If you solely use those three weapons from a purely aesthetic point of view, I strongly recommend you to equip a single handed Sword as well (Saber in game) because it barely leaves you open to attack whilst giving you a ranged option as well.

Despite what I have written (typed... whatever), I only play as a Protranser so my comments on Twin Swords are entirely based upon what I've seen my party use and from what I've heard them comment about them. Of the four, I highly recommend Rising Crush, Assault Crush and Cross Hurricane for utility (Rising Crush) and damage (Assault Crush and Cross Hurricane), beware of Spendour Crush, it looks fancy but it doesn't deal the damage that the Assault Crush or Cross Hurricane can consistently.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: biggabertha on 2008-04-30 19:06 ]</font>

[Genoa]

Well put biggabertha. I agree for the most part.
IMO, Rising Crush is one of the most VITAL skill type PA's ever. It's the only thing saving my sorry butt when I'm in Caves B in MAG. Tossing Vanda's non-stop, canceling their tech spam, and doing pretty decent damage. It's still a strong art compared to Cross Hurricane, Splendor Crush, and Assault Crush, but the difference is, your chance of being interrupted with Rising Crush are extremely low compared to the other 3 Twin Saber PA's. Therefore, if you're actually finishing the combo, using the Just Attack (JA), then you're probably doing more damage overall anyways. Plus, I've noticed in parties where I constantly spam the Rising Crush in that particular area, they've been quite appreciative...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MegamanX on 2008-05-01 00:26 ]</font>

[Mio]

Biggabertha, thanks for the magnific info you gave me.

I guess I'm going to specialize mainly on twin sabers after all.

[Darkly]

ooo tornado break hits 5 targets now. Its a real killer against ageetas and things like it

[beatrixkiddo]

On 2008-04-30 17:19, Legendria wrote:
Twin saber - Don't even bother at all with the NPC pa skills. They both suck major ass.



wat

[panzer_unit]

With the set you picked:

Twin sabers are nice and versatile, but the basic PA's are all crowd control. I'd suggest getting Assault and Rising ASAP since they're not covered by any of your other weapons. Cross Hurricane is really good too.
* Assault Crush (versatile, power move is first atk) - attack -> crit PA (repeat) for fast single target damage. Full combo is a good defensive measure.
* Rising Crush (defensive, power move is second atk) - can launch like 4-6 enemies in the air in the first 2 moves and stop them all from attacking.
* Cross Hurricane (offensive, just gets better and better) - really good looking multi-hit combo with nice damage.
* Splendor Crush - only used it offline a bit, Cross Hurricane seems to do the same job with better power and style.

Sword is a good offensive weapon. I'd suggest Tornado and Spinning Break,
* Basic attack combo does a TON of damage for free if you're hitting 4 things at a time.
* Tornado Break (small monsters, power move is second atk) the main advantage is how many targets it hits reliably. This burns up a lot of Photon Charges on my Protranser, but I find it best used if you just PA -> crit PA -> repeat. A fortefighter with Skill Save can attack like that all day. The last move should be saved for self-defense since you blow all your targets away.
* Spinning Break (large monsters, power move is third atk) is great for attacking multi-target monsters now that it has 4 targets on the second and third moves. Don't be shy about PP, get to the end of the combo ASAP... PA -> crit PA -> crit PA.
* Gravity Break (single targets, power move is first atk): use Assault Crush instead for fast single-target damage. You usually want to critical on the first move but Sword makes that very slow. I expect FighMaster speed boost to make this skill much more usable.

Axe has some pretty unique skills.
* Axe basic attacks knock enemies down, and regenerate a huge amount of PP. It's slow but a very reliable general-use melee weapon.
* Anga Dugrega (defensive, power-move on third atk): starts by blowing away 2 targets, jumps on them, pound them more, knock them away again.
* Anga Jabroga (alpha strike, needs to be lv31+): leap and blow away 5 targets. Expect to be interrupted if you're already up close to monsters. Huge ATP growth, big damage once you hit very high skill levels.
* Anga Redda (offensive, power move on second atk): pounds on 2 targets a bunch of times before nailing them with a huge knockback hit. It's a generic two-target damage dealer like Cross Hurricane for twin saber. Levels VERY fast if it's the same as I remember.

[Hrith]

Twin Saber: Assault Crush > Cross Hurricane > Rising Crush >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Splendor Crush

Assault Crush has one of the highest DPS in the game against one target, it's extremely fast, even with Just Attacks (JA), it has no knockback at the end (which is a good thing).

Cross Hurricane has incredibly high DPS, and lands enough hits to be useful as a boss killer, too.

Rising Crush is not as powerful as the two above, but it's one of the best defensive moves in the game. It's very hard to get hit when using this skill.

Splendor Crush sucks. Nothing about it is good, whether it's damage, range, speed, PP cost, maneuverability, etc.



Sword: Gravity Break > Tornado Break > Spinning Break

Gravity Break has immense DPS against one target, but it's very inaccurate, you may not want to use this as a beast.

Tornado Break does a lot of damage to a lot of targets in a short amount of time. It also has an incredible range, more than spears, for some reason.

Spinning Break is very good potential damage, but very, very, very hard to aim with, and the narrow radius does not help. Excellent boss killer now that it hits so many targets.



Axes: Anga Jabroga > Anga Dugrega > Anga Redda

Anga Jabroga does the most damage of all skills in the game, but like panzer said, after Lv31. The main asset of that PA is that it ignores EVP; you'll never miss. Best boss killer.

Anga Dugrega is an amazing move, IMO. If you time it well, monsters never get up, even big ones. Damage is decent, even if it's not this skill's strong point. Very slow to level up.

Anga Redda is not bad, but quite pointless, there are a lot of PAs (for other weapons) which deal more damage and will not miss as much (axes miss a lot). It has the highest ATP mod in the game on the last hit, if you like seeing huge numbers.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-05-01 10:36, Hrith wrote:
Spinning Break is very good potential damage, but very, very, very hard to aim with, and the narrow radius does not help. Excellent boss killer now that it hits so many targets.

The last attack on Spinning Break has a generous AOE... it's a lot like Dus Daggas in that respect. It's put Anga Jabroga out of business for my Protranser, at lv30 on each the only damage difference is because of base weapon ATP, and Spinning has no time wasted on a slow normal-attack JA or vulnerable wind-up period.

[Koji1m1]

to tell you the truth i deffenetly prafer twin saber out most of the other dual weapons due th the reason tht the other ppl mention as far as cross hurricane goes people tend to forget tht only the 3rd combo is when cross hurricane get really slow but i dont bother using the 3rd combo unless i switch to Acrofighter as far as assult crush goes ethier its a pain to lv but the 3rd combo is very useful. rising crush like everyone esle said on here is awesome and perfect for crowed controls (pretty much all the twin saber pas are almost)

[dc534]

Tornado Break became my favorite sword PA once we got a bunch of decent % svaluts swords, I think that sword really helps with how quickly you can run out of pp with tornado break.

I say the axe pa's are all good in my opinion. Jabroga takes the cake as far as damage but ang redda is great against single enemies or if you love big numbers with that last hit. plus now that the axe knocks down on first normal swing it helps against medium mobs as well

I just started liking twin sabers a lot more because of cross huricane. Although the saber pas were decent before this move is like dus majara for acrofighters. I still cant give up the spear however and thats why I still cling on to fighgunner.

Nobody seems to like twin daggers but I can tell you that they do some serious damage, Hishou is slow to lvl but is well worth it. It has knockbup and knockdown ability and if you get the JA down, which is not difficult, it has some serious potential.

Nobody seems to like knuckles either but you should pick up a set, ick hick is nasty from the start and only gets better and better. Zubba is not bad and neither is robbado but they are not the greatest either. Knuckles I have noticed PP regen really really fast, probably because of how easy it is to JA the normal attacks.

Dont neglect single handed weapons as well, spinning strike is pretty decent and sabers are always avaliable so might as well pick one up if not just to knock things down with rising strike.

I love fighter but I love gunner as well that is why I am a Tranny and a Figunny.

Sometips are if you are lvling smaller weapons play as acrofighter, as you know they are quicker and which means their moves also lvl faster. It is not that much faster but take any advantage you can get because some of these skills take a while to master. OH and get dus majarra as soon as possible, it still is and forever will be probably the best dps in the game.

[panzer_unit]

Anga Dugrega walks all over the last room of Ruins. You alternate between blowing away Deljabans before they can do the same to you, and jumping out of the way of incoming foie/megid.

[Alisha]

i agree with what hrith said except i would put rising crush ahead of cross hurricane except on bosses. i also personally love tornado break. i even like it more than gravity if only because i can JA tornado break flawlessly but have trouble JA'ing gravity break.

[Hrith]

Anga Dugrega is the one I have trouble JA-ing, but it's mostly because I play Fortegunner too much >_>

[MrNomad]

On 2008-05-02 17:09, Hrith wrote:
Anga Dugrega is the one I have trouble JA-ing, but it's mostly because I play Fortegunner too much >_>

That, and it's perhaps the slowest pa to JA with, you almost hafta wait an entire second to JA each hit -.-