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KoruKinshi
May 2, 2008, 01:34 AM
It might be just me, but this is what it's looking like.

I could just see it. After the encryption is done, they talk about how Ragol has prosperity, up until 50,000 years ago when some cataclysmic event happened. Then you see an image of a Dreamcast and a Game Shark to show that it's our fault back in PSO for hacking it. XD

ArcImpulse
May 2, 2008, 02:40 AM
I recall a statement at one point that PSU takes place 1000 years after PSO. Not in the game, mind you.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ArcImpulse on 2008-05-02 00:41 ]</font>

KoruKinshi
May 2, 2008, 02:46 AM
Ok...so instead of 50,000 years, it happened over 1,000 years? I dunno. I was just trying to make a joke...I guess I didn't do well. ;.;

Zorafim
May 2, 2008, 02:48 AM
Funny how deeply some people look into these things. It's just a fanservice thing. Even the name Rykros is a fanservice.

Voison
May 2, 2008, 04:41 AM
wow...

DavidNel
May 2, 2008, 05:04 AM
Battlestar gameshark. I can here the evil Star Wars music now, "Dun dun dun duh-da-dun duh-da-dun!"

And hey, it made me laugh, if that is any conselation.

Danny_Dark
May 2, 2008, 05:14 AM
Well...I think PSU takes place ca. 600 years after PSO.

Kanore
May 2, 2008, 05:44 AM
Well...I think PSU takes place ca. 600 years after PSO.

Umm... why such a random number? Dark Force appears every 1000 years.

Sinue_v2
May 2, 2008, 06:09 AM
Except in PSO where he appeared 800 years after PSIV. Less time if you count all the generations of PSIII, and going by the JP timeline PSO is 200 years before PSIII.


I recall a statement at one point that PSU takes place 1000 years after PSO. Not in the game, mind you.

The two games also take place in a totally different dimensions. Hence, most of the PSO stuff in PSU being attributed to a "dimensional rift" in a Relics site.

Zarode
May 2, 2008, 06:31 AM
On 2008-05-02 04:09, Sinue_v2 wrote:

The two games also take place in a totally different dimensions. Hence, most of the PSO stuff in PSU being attributed to a "dimensional fanservice rift" in a Relics site.



;>

Garnet_Moon
May 2, 2008, 06:35 AM
No, they take place at the same time. Just alternate realities from each other.

For example, Ethan is the alternate version of Ash. Ethan is a main character, and less useless than Ash. But not by too much, so maybe they are brothers and Ethan just got swallowed up by a dimensional rift and landed on Parum?

Danny_Dark
May 2, 2008, 06:41 AM
I have Read it somewhere...can't Remeber...

landman
May 2, 2008, 06:47 AM
lol

Virtual. Space.

Nothing more to say, how did that data end in Rykros? I don't know, and I doubt we will ever have an answer, out of fanfiction.

Kenbog
May 2, 2008, 07:12 AM
Well doesnt rykros travel trought dimentions and apairing every 1000 years?
According to the old ps that is.
Its been to long http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif

Sinue_v2
May 2, 2008, 07:25 AM
No. In PS Classic, Rykros just has an extremely elliptical orbit which takes it 1,000 years to complete. It was hidden from most forms of detection, and could only be revealed using the Aeroprism. Although before the seal was ruptured by Lassic, when it would pass it would eclipse the sun from Dezolis's orbit, and the spiritual energy from the planet would react with Laconium causing it to glow slightly. This eclipse plays a major role in Dezolian religion, and the focal artifact of which being the Eclipse Torch.

HolyOrderSaek
May 2, 2008, 07:48 AM
Sinue, FTW.

If I recall, that's also where Elsydeon (sp? too lazy to google) was stored. It was basically there to foretell the coming of Dark Force, so I'm still holding out for a Profound Darkness boss in PSU. Continuity be damned, that could be an awesome boss if Sega wasn't as lazy as I am.

GuardianElite
May 2, 2008, 07:54 AM
On 2008-05-02 05:48, HolyOrderSaek wrote:
Sinue, FTW.

If I recall, that's also where Elsydeon (sp? too lazy to google) was stored. It was basically there to foretell the coming of Dark Force, so I'm still holding out for a Profound Darkness boss in PSU. Continuity be damned, that could be an awesome boss if Sega wasn't as lazy as I am.


well technically Dark Falz, Dark Force, or Phallius is a incarnation of Profound darkness..

HolyOrderSaek
May 2, 2008, 08:07 AM
Well, a manifestation, I would say. I mean the big bad-ass final boss of PS4. But somehow something like that probably won't happen and/or be as awesome as I remember.

Juza
May 2, 2008, 08:17 AM
On 2008-05-02 05:48, HolyOrderSaek wrote:
Sinue, FTW.

If I recall, that's also where Elsydeon (sp? too lazy to google) was stored. It was basically there to foretell the coming of Dark Force, so I'm still holding out for a Profound Darkness boss in PSU. Continuity be damned, that could be an awesome boss if Sega wasn't as lazy as I am.



Rykros, or Dezo? Elsydeon was on Dezo, in the keeping of the Espers. Also, I'm going with the delusion that ST cares about the old series and Rykros is Rykros, and not Rykrosic. Maybe. Re: elliptical orbit, thousand years. Maybe it's just moving reaally, reaaaaally fast. :3

I can dream, can't I?

Legendria
May 2, 2008, 09:21 AM
On 2008-05-02 06:17, Juza wrote:
Also, I'm going with the delusion that ST cares about the old series and Rykros is Rykros, and not Rykrosic.

Holy crap, Kubara copies everything.

Cathbar
May 2, 2008, 09:23 AM
On 2008-05-02 06:17, Juza wrote:


Also, I'm going with the delusion that ST cares about the old series and Rykros is Rykros, and not Rykrosic.




OBVIOUSLY they are different. I mean, it's in the names! Rykros is Rykros and Rykrosic is the kubara rip off version of the planet http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Which would explain EVERYthing!



EDIT: Darn.. beaten to the punch <_<;



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cathbar on 2008-05-02 07:26 ]</font>

ArcImpulse
May 2, 2008, 12:48 PM
On 2008-05-02 04:09, Sinue_v2 wrote:
The two games also take place in a totally different dimensions. Hence, most of the PSO stuff in PSU being attributed to a "dimensional rift" in a Relics site.

This is why I never claim to have a good memory.

Darius_Drake
May 2, 2008, 01:44 PM
Interesting. Is anybody going to create a topic that holds the actual time frame and storyline of the Phantasy Star Universe including PS I -IV, PSO, and PSU. Would make for an interesting read and there seem to be some knowledgeable people on this subject here. Oh and of course the topic would have a spoiler warning all over it.

Kinako78
May 2, 2008, 02:13 PM
The theory I always had about Ragol was that...well, let me start from the beginning.

As some of the long-time Phantasy Star fans may recall, after Palma was destroyed by Mother Brain, the surviving inhabitants all moved to other planets. Some moved to Motavia and Dezolis, while others completely left the Algo system. My theory is that Ragol is one of the planets those others arrived at.

Then again, I guess that doesn't quite explain why a 2nd Pioneer ship came to Ragol. Or does it?

furrypaws
May 2, 2008, 03:42 PM
On 2008-05-02 12:13, Kinako78 wrote:
The theory I always had about Ragol was that...well, let me start from the beginning.

As some of the long-time Phantasy Star fans may recall, after Palma was destroyed by Mother Brain, the surviving inhabitants all moved to other planets. Some moved to Motavia and Dezolis, while others completely left the Algo system. My theory is that Ragol is one of the planets those others arrived at.

Then again, I guess that doesn't quite explain why a 2nd Pioneer ship came to Ragol. Or does it?



Except on PSO they said they left from the planet Coral, and the reason they colonized was because Coral was becoming overpopulated and it was running out of resources.

xEndrance
May 2, 2008, 03:54 PM
.... Does it really matter ?

Kinako78
May 2, 2008, 03:57 PM
On 2008-05-02 13:42, furrypaws wrote:

On 2008-05-02 12:13, Kinako78 wrote:
The theory I always had about Ragol was that...well, let me start from the beginning.

As some of the long-time Phantasy Star fans may recall, after Palma was destroyed by Mother Brain, the surviving inhabitants all moved to other planets. Some moved to Motavia and Dezolis, while others completely left the Algo system. My theory is that Ragol is one of the planets those others arrived at.

Then again, I guess that doesn't quite explain why a 2nd Pioneer ship came to Ragol. Or does it?



Except on PSO they said they left from the planet Coral, and the reason they colonized was because Coral was becoming overpopulated and it was running out of resources.



Guess I forgot about that. Sorry.

And no, it doesn't really matter, xEndrance, but it's fun to guess. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kinako78 on 2008-05-02 13:59 ]</font>

Juza
May 2, 2008, 04:01 PM
On 2008-05-02 11:44, Darius_Drake wrote:
Interesting. Is anybody going to create a topic that holds the actual time frame and storyline of the Phantasy Star Universe including PS I -IV, PSO, and PSU.

Here's the Ghetto history of Phantasy Star, with spoilers in the appropriate spoiler thingy:

Space Year Something or Other: PS I

Lassic is nibbled to death by a cat. Nobody knows if Noah/Lutz is a girl or a boy. Or both. o_O

1000 years later: PS II

Nei dies, Parma is destroyed. Oops. The Great Collapse happens as a result. The denizens of Algo descend from the once-lofty height of their civilization, into mere NASCAR fans. The Landale ends up on blocks outside Chaz Ashley's great great great great great etc. grandfather's house.

1000 years later: PS IV

Alys dies. A certain whiny brat gets some 'great service' in the town of Kadary. Zio isn't killed, he simply moves to Brazil. Rykros appears. The Profound Darkness is beaten up by a whiny brat and the best Numan evar. Rune later NOLs said whiny brat, gets him offed by a Chaos Bringer and steals his psycho wand before laughing and refusing to use a moon atomizer. No really, it's in there, keep watching the credits, I swear to Zio. Rika marries then later divorces a certain whiny brat, after finding him rooting around in her underwear drawer far too often than is normal. Yeah, that neurotic unwillingness to open cabinets, it was all just an act. Pervert! Fin.

PS III, PSO and PSU:

I don't know what you're talking about. The series ended with IV and everyone knows they skipped III, III being an unlucky number.

Sinue_v2
May 2, 2008, 06:50 PM
Some moved to Motavia and Dezolis, while others completely left the Algo system. My theory is that Ragol is one of the planets those others arrived at.

That seems to be the leading theory among fans. At least, if you go by the US timeline and assume the AW and AUW calendars are congruent. The world ships of of Palma were NOT the pioneer ships though. This is evident because (not only do they not look anything alike) the Pioneer ships were built as part of a planned colonization effort. The Worldships of Palma were emergency evacuation transport, and most of them didn't make it. They were either destroyed by fragments of the planet, damaged and sent adrift derelict, destroyed by other worldships, or crashed into neighboring planets.

Only two of them were confirmed to have escaped intact. The NeoPalm and the Alisa III. In most endings of PSIII, the NeoPalm is unaccounted for. The Alisa III landed on a Earthlike planet in one ending, landed on EARTH (in present time) in another, met with the NeoPalm in a third. And the remaining ending found the Alisa III landing on a planet which quite resembled Ragol.

So the idea is that the Alisa III landed on Ragol after PSIII, and the inhabitants started a new life for themselves. The Dark Force aboard was not destroyed, and so it was sealed in the wreckage of the worldship. The new colony then perished for some unknown reason. As time went on, Dark Force regained it's strength - but did not have a corporeal body as it was destroyed in PSIII's time.

This sets the stage for PSO, the discovery of Ragol, and the ruins within. The destruction of Pioneer 1 and the temptation of Rico which lead her to the pits of the Ruined worldship where she was possessed and used as a physical anchor for Dark Force's power in our world.

This is only backed up by circumstantial evidence though - as Falz's obelisk resembles the same architecture found in the sunken ruins and his obelisk sits at the bottom of a dried up lakebed. Not to mention the "window" in ruins 1 which looks out into what looks like a collapsed dome and a temple in the distance. Also, Rico does mention that the "Ruins" are a "gigantic spaceship".

Personally, I would have preferred if PSU had turned out to be a prequel to the original series set millions of years before PS - and the SEED were the last remaining vestiges of the Rebellion Spiritual Race which came back to free their brethren from the seal after their defeat in the Great War. At the culmination of PSU, the characters must enter the rift to ensure the SEED are sealed away - and Karen sacrifices herself to allow the others to escape. Consumed by the darkness, Karen becomes the core by which the spiritual race gather unto and eventually transforming into the Profound Darkness.

This would not only be a decent ending for PSU, but it would enhance the ending of PSIV - because when you strike down the Profound Darkness (which is in female form), you're freeing Karen's spirit from the darkness after untold eons of horrors and anguish. PSO, on the otherhand, would be the renewal of this cycle - with Rico serving as the core for a new Profound Darkness.

Buuuut.... that opportunity is long past possible.

landman
May 2, 2008, 07:14 PM
In my opinion... Sega makes a game, then name the game Phantasy Star to boost it's sales, end.

Uncle_bob
May 2, 2008, 07:21 PM
On 2008-05-02 17:14, landman wrote:
In my opinion... Sega makes a game, then name the game Phantasy Star to boost it's sales, end.



You are correct, sir.

Shinko
May 2, 2008, 07:23 PM
[/quote]

The two games also take place in a totally different dimensions. Hence, most of the PSO stuff in PSU being attributed to a "dimensional rift" in a Relics site.

[/quote]

i think i agree with this. but i could be wrong.... but it sound about right

Kanore
May 2, 2008, 07:25 PM
If Phantasy Star, Phantasy Star Online and Phantasy Star Universe are all linked then we should also try linking G Gundam, Gundam Wing, and Gundam SEED into the UC timeline too.

Many things are just references, you don't need to try so hard to link everything together... if anything, they're labeled Phantasy Star because they use the same type of storyline and general plot devices, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're all in the same Universe. I think discussions like this in-game end up with me saying something along the lines of, "If PS/PSO/PSU are linked, then all the Final Fantasy games are linked because they have WEAPONS, Moogles, and Chocobos."

The only things driving people to link the 3 Phantasy Star universes is the whole misinterpretation of the end of PSIII and the many possibilities that could be imagined within the 1000 years that occur between each PS game.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kanore on 2008-05-02 17:31 ]</font>

seph_monkey
May 2, 2008, 07:44 PM
the reason why people try to link them is because it is somewhat possible, also it would be really great if they where link'd. you cannot blame people for dreaming.

also it is very interesting hearing what people come up with, like sinue that guy is crazy lol

it would be great if in the end of this is all psu is link'd with the ps series, id be surprised.

Criss
May 2, 2008, 07:48 PM
I recall Laia or some other guardian scientist saying that Rykros seems to have appeared from another dimension. Ep 3 Chapter 3 I think.

So if that's true, there's a possibility that the dimension it came from was from one of the previous Phantasy Star games. It might be the Rykros of PSIII, or it might be Ragol itself devolved into a huge SEED nest.

But still, anything that anyone could come up with is still pure speculation at this point. I think ST itself is speculating the PSU story as it goes on. >.>

Edit: In any case, the fact that Guardians could find data with which they more or less accurately reproduced Ragol implies that this Rykros has some relation with Ragol, close or far. At this point, I think it's more of an attempt by ST at setting up a link between PSO and PSU than pure fanservice.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Criss on 2008-05-02 17:52 ]</font>

ArcImpulse
May 2, 2008, 07:51 PM
On 2008-05-02 17:48, Criss wrote:
So if that's true, there's a possibility that the dimension it came from was from one of the previous Phantasy Star games. It might be the Rykros of PSIII, or it might be Ragol itself devolved into a huge SEED nest.

That'd make anything anyone ever did storywise during PSO utterly pointless.

Kanore
May 2, 2008, 08:09 PM
On 2008-05-02 17:44, seph_monkey wrote:
the reason why people try to link them is because it is somewhat possible, also it would be really great if they where link'd. you cannot blame people for dreaming.

also it is very interesting hearing what people come up with, like sinue that guy is crazy lol

it would be great if in the end of this is all psu is link'd with the ps series, id be surprised.



Treating game storylines like they weren't written by humans? This isn't 1998 and Pokemon isn't new anymore.

Sinue_v2
May 2, 2008, 09:27 PM
On 2008-05-02 17:48, Criss wrote:
I recall Laia or some other guardian scientist saying that Rykros seems to have appeared from another dimension. Ep 3 Chapter 3 I think.

So if that's true, there's a possibility that the dimension it came from was from one of the previous Phantasy Star games. It might be the Rykros of PSIII, or it might be Ragol itself devolved into a huge SEED nest.

But still, anything that anyone could come up with is still pure speculation at this point. I think ST itself is speculating the PSU story as it goes on. >.>

Edit: In any case, the fact that Guardians could find data with which they more or less accurately reproduced Ragol implies that this Rykros has some relation with Ragol, close or far. At this point, I think it's more of an attempt by ST at setting up a link between PSO and PSU than pure fanservice.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Criss on 2008-05-02 17:52 ]</font>


Problem being that PS Rykros is a small crystaline planet whereas PSU Rykros looks like a huge clown eye. The Relics look nothing like the Silence/Anger/Courage/etc towers. It's never been mentioned to have shifted dimensions either, so the mechanisms behind WHY they were never discovered before in each respective system are totally different.

And then, as said, Rykros seems to have some strong ties to Ragol - even if it's just fanservice. If in MAG, we were running redesigns of Lassic's aircastle, Ladea Tower, Climatrol, etc - then it might be a different story. The only real direct link we have to any classic Phantasy Star game in MAG (data recovered from Rykros) is through a PSO character - Rupika, who chants the lines to PSIV's opening narration. (lol @ "Four Bells were Lit")

As for why bother making game connecting story theories, it's just for fun. Nobody really takes them seriously.

Finalzone
May 2, 2008, 10:07 PM
At the end, only Sonic Team will decide the turning point of Phantasy Star Universe.

Phoenix_Black
May 3, 2008, 01:48 AM
On 2008-05-02 04:09, Sinue_v2 wrote:
The two games also take place in a totally different dimensions. Hence, most of the PSO stuff in PSU being attributed to a "dimensional rift" in a Relics site.



Yay, plot devices!

KoruKinshi
May 3, 2008, 01:56 AM
Wow, this topic picked up steam... Either way, I doubt the links exist solely due to fanservice. There must be more to it.

Kanore
May 3, 2008, 05:49 AM
On 2008-05-02 23:56, KoruKinshi wrote:
Wow, this topic picked up steam... Either way, I doubt the links exist solely due to fanservice. There must be more to it.



No.

Unless you have some personal revelation or you know whoever crappy writers Sonic Team has and they told you about the story because they cared for some reason, no.

Of course, if you can prove that all three general series' are linked, it'd be nice if you could link Mobile Suit Gundam and G Gundam. Or maybe link two of the Final Fantasy games other than the X series together.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kanore on 2008-05-03 03:52 ]</font>

Sinue_v2
May 3, 2008, 06:08 AM
Or maybe link two of the Final Fantasy games other than the X series together.

A guy I used to work with actually used to go on about how all the Final Fantasies were linked. Something about Garnet in FFIX, Final Fantasy I, multiple universes and that huge eye thing that came out of the clouds. He said something about FFIX marked the end of the "series" and FFX started a new one.

I can't remember the details because I could give a shit about Final Fantasy and was just glossing the info over to get him to shut up about it. But yes, there are people out there who link all the Final Fantasy games together.

Kinako78
May 3, 2008, 07:46 AM
The only other link of any kind between the Final Fantasy games is between Tactics and XII: they both take place in Ivalice. But the link ends there.

As for PSU, I guess time will tell if there's any link storywise.

Kanore
May 3, 2008, 12:48 PM
Okay, I overlooked the Ivalice games. But I can assure you that there's no solid link anywhere else between them.

MSAksion
May 6, 2008, 06:19 PM
Would be neat if this PSU is like on the opposite side of this eliptical orbit of Rykros. Like at the 500 year mark its at the old PSO place ragol or whatever and they get hit with this dark force. Then 500 years later after that its back here again and the cycle happens again.

Its like Legend of Zelda/Link. A hero rises when evil appears. When the Dark power breaks the seal of the golden land then the evil floods the world and only one boy can save Hyrule. The various LINKs are just boys who rise to the call when evil appears and the princess is in dire need. None of them are related in any way shape or form. They just happen to wear green, are elfs, and theyre always named LINK.

Kanore
May 6, 2008, 09:16 PM
On 2008-05-06 16:19, MSAksion wrote:
Would be neat if this PSU is like on the opposite side of this eliptical orbit of Rykros. Like at the 500 year mark its at the old PSO place ragol or whatever and they get hit with this dark force. Then 500 years later after that its back here again and the cycle happens again.



Orbits don't work that way.

Nai_Calus
May 6, 2008, 09:23 PM
Sedna, a Trans-Neptunian object. Orbital period, estimated to be between ten thousand and twelve thousand years. Estimated farthest distance from the sun approximately 976 AU.

The nearest star to Earth, Proxima Centauri, is about 4.22 light years away.

A single light year is approximately equivalent to 63,241 AU.

Think for approximately one picosecond, and run that 'going between solar systems in 500 years' thing by me again.

I mean, yes, PS/O/U isn't hard sci-fi by any remote stretch of the imagination, Gurhal in particular sets my bullshit meter ringing with the apparent closeness of the planets. Algol at least had the decency to not be a natural solar system and to have an orbital breakdown... But, come on. 500 years. Between solar systems.

If Ragol's star and Gurhal were even remotely close enough for a one thousand year orbital period to be enough to traverse between them... They'd have much, much bigger problems.

I mean, come on. I don't need a working model of whatever method of apparently FTL drive method is used on the Pioneer ships, but I like my sci-fi to at least have *some* vague grounding in reality.

PSU, and PSO and PS to a lesser extent, strain my credibility enough as it is.

Which brings us back to:

They aren't connected. Stop trying.

*waits for 'lol wormhole/magic/pixie dust' argument*

DreXxiN
May 6, 2008, 10:58 PM
The only other link of any kind between the Final Fantasy games is between Tactics and XII: they both take place in Ivalice. But the link ends there.

C'mon now, Kain's(FFIV) Lance is findable in FFIX. Lol xD.

AlMcFly
May 7, 2008, 11:18 AM
On 2008-05-02 04:09, Sinue_v2 wrote:
The two games also take place in a totally different dimensions. Hence, most of the PSO stuff in PSU being attributed to a "dimensional rift" in a Relics site.


I find it funny when writers of any story use "from another dimension" as an explanation. Anytime I heard something like that, the first thing that always pops into my head is "yeah, the writers are completely lazy and don't want to put the work into making a cohesive and believable back story to tie everything together".

Now the questions that pop into my head are:

1. How do they know this item is from another dimension? Mathematics and science can reveal the possibilities of another dimension but they are all hypotheses until actual experiments prove it to be true.

2. Has the scientist seen the other dimension?

3. Have they met someone who said they were from another dimension?

4. Did they write love notes back and forth between dimensions for a time period?

5. Is there some genetic residue from this other dimension that acts like a marker on certain items that implies that it isn't from our dimension?

6. If so, how do we know this residue belonged to another dimension?

7. If we have the technology to find the other dimension, what's stopping us from going there?

8. How did Ash, Rupika, Sue, Kireek and Montague travel over to our dimension? (Or are they just parts of the program we found and not actual people?)

9. How could these writers actually call themselves writers if they lack the creativity to actual build a story that is engaging instead of copping out with "oh, um, it's from another dimension".

10. Can we please see cameos of older PS main characters in future events? (Off topic but my thoughts led here lol.)

Kinako78
May 7, 2008, 11:46 AM
On 2008-05-06 20:58, DreXxiN wrote:

The only other link of any kind between the Final Fantasy games is between Tactics and XII: they both take place in Ivalice. But the link ends there.

C'mon now, Kain's(FFIV) Lance is findable in FFIX. Lol xD.



Guess I forgot about that. It's been ages since I played FFIX. XD

vcdn
May 7, 2008, 01:53 PM
On 2008-05-03 03:49, Kanore wrote:
Of course, if you can prove that all three general series' are linked, it'd be nice if you could link Mobile Suit Gundam and G Gundam.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kanore on 2008-05-03 03:52 ]</font>


Sure, no problem. It was Called Turn "A" Gundam

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: vcdn on 2008-05-07 11:54 ]</font>