PSU: Rifle vs. Bow

[ARASHIKAGE]

I'm a Bow guy myself, they will always hold a special place in my heart. (Although a little more range on both of them would be nice).

Once Tenora Bows are released we are sure to see some high damage pop up. Best damage ive seen my (6* 10/10 GRM) Bow hit was: 1600+. But i was only lvl 120 last time i used it. And only Human...

Any good Rilfe joys? (Other than "ks" plz).

[darkante]

Element bullets on Rifle is really good now seeing as they also come with knockdown effect on lv 31+.
This really makes Rifle more useful atm http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[RedMussel]

Tenora bows... o dear.

[ashley50]

Knockdown?

[Retehi]

On 2008-05-03 02:03, ashley50 wrote:
Knockdown?




http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/knockdown

knock·down Audio Help /ˈnɒkˌdaʊn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nok-doun] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. capable of knocking something down; overwhelming; irresistible: a knockdown blow.
2. constructed in separate parts that can readily be taken apart for easy storage, shipping, etc.: a knockdown toolshed.
3. offered or acquired for less than the prevailing rate: first-rate goods at knockdown prices.
–noun
4. a knockdown object.
5. an act or instance of knocking down, esp. by a blow.
6. something that fells or overwhelms.
7. reduction or lowering, as in price or number: The store offered a knockdown of 15 percent to its own employees.
8. Slang. an introduction, esp. to a person: He gave me a real knockdown to the company.
9. Nautical. the capsizing of a small boat as a result of a strong gust of wind.

Basically, it means knocking down something.

[LaughingMan]

On 2008-05-03 02:06, Retehi wrote:

On 2008-05-03 02:03, ashley50 wrote:
Knockdown?




http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/knockdown

knock·down Audio Help /ˈnɒkˌdaʊn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nok-doun] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. capable of knocking something down; overwhelming; irresistible: a knockdown blow.
2. constructed in separate parts that can readily be taken apart for easy storage, shipping, etc.: a knockdown toolshed.
3. offered or acquired for less than the prevailing rate: first-rate goods at knockdown prices.
–noun
4. a knockdown object.
5. an act or instance of knocking down, esp. by a blow.
6. something that fells or overwhelms.
7. reduction or lowering, as in price or number: The store offered a knockdown of 15 percent to its own employees.
8. Slang. an introduction, esp. to a person: He gave me a real knockdown to the company.
9. Nautical. the capsizing of a small boat as a result of a strong gust of wind.

Basically, it means knocking down something.



PWNED

[guise709]

I like and prefer the Bows more but there no longer as good as they once were ever since Rifle's got their boost. Hopefully they will upgrade the bows a bit more or give it something to give an edge to be comparable with Rifles.

[Tetsaru]

I don't mean to start a flame war here, but bows are redundant, imo. They're essentially rifles for forces, and seeing how forces currently have considerably less weapon choices than melee users and gun users (rods, wands, and tech-mags... a whopping 3 tech weapons =/), it makes me believe the weapon type was just thrown in as a half-assed form of balance. I think Sonic Team should have varied the two weapon types more. =/

Anyway, I'd choose a rifle over a bow any day, for the following reasons:

1. Rifles shoot faster than bows.
2. Rifles fire the instant you press the attack button. With bows, you have that annoying delay.
3. Lv31+ rifle bullets get knockdown. Bows don't.
4. The ultimate bow PA's both suck. How many people can honestly say that they use them on a regular basis? Mayalee Shot isn't much better, but at least Killer Shot has a use.
5. Iirc, when Gunmaster comes out, Lv41+ rifle bullets will get Lv5 SE's. Currently, there is no class that can use bow bullets past Lv40, as well as no other PA's that get Lv5 SE's.

However, if I'm playing PT or any other non-FG class, I'll go ahead and equip a bow, if I'm able. Gotta have me a good long-range weapon. :3

Finally, what's this about Tenora bows?? I've heard nothing of them...

[Ithildin]

I love the look of bows. I mean I wont go AT with my FT even tho I want to be souly support because I like to use a bow. However, rifles are much better. I mean come on, there's knockdown, they fire faster...

[Weeaboolits]

The only reason the bow PAs suck is because sonic team felt the need to tack a delay on them.

Keep in mind, also, that bows level faster than rifles.

however, the only class with access to both is guntecher, so there's little point in comparing them.

[Kinako78]

Bow, easily. Rifles may be the more powerful option now, but I'll always like bows more.

Though, as Ronin said, only GT can use both, so it doesn't really matter, anyway.

[EMPYREAN]

hmm kinda split in the middle here.
on 1 side i like bow cuz it lv fast and does ok dmg but its so slow
on the other side i like rifles simply becouse of the speed( 2 shots per sec)

but atm rifles is my favorite even if i now play as an PT

[ARASHIKAGE]

The reason I mention Tenora Bows is to get ppls thinking, think about how much the Bow is being held back.

1. They are on weaker classes. As a human the best atp ive seen for the Bow is when im PT. Which compared to a Female human FG had equal atp at that time. (both lvl120 15 on class).

2. The Rattlesnake is a very respectable weapon, wheres the 11* GRM Bow to compare? GRM makes well balanced guns. How many of you use Yohemi Riles for other than killer shot?

3. Someone mentioned lvl 41+ bullets for Rilfes. What if there is a class that will get lvl 41+ on the Bow? Do you like 50% element on your weapons? Believe it.

Bows 4 life! =P

[ghostmachine]

the only thing that you havnt said is that bows have a longer range

[bLOODSAW]

Well i like them both, but i like bows more only becaus i love using them on bosses. The whole "ignoring dfp" thing is a godsend for bosses. (Plus i can hit dragon bosses anywhere for teh same amount of damage. Except for de ragan's tail which is resistant to bullets...)

[chaoskila]

rifles suck so bad they had boost them just becuz of bows

[Magus_84]

On 2008-05-03 12:30, ghostmachine wrote:
the only thing that you havnt said is that bows have a longer range



Except it's rifles that have the longer range. >_>

As a GT, I pick rifle. Or will, once the PA leveling update comes. Leveling them sucks.

[Zarode]

Bows are neat, but Rifles are functional.

[Jainsea]

I like bows way better then rifles, but now with the rifles getting knockdown at 31+ it kinda
puts rifles ahead(it was 31+ right? O: ) Maybe when the PA exp boost comes around I'll
dust off the rifle PA's and get at least a few up to 31+

[Miyoko]

On 2008-05-03 12:15, ARASHIKAGE wrote:
2. The Rattlesnake is a very respectable weapon, wheres the 11* GRM Bow to compare? GRM makes well balanced guns. How many of you use Yohemi Riles for other than killer shot?

People who realize that rifles are better used for SE application as opposed to damage. I always have my S-rank yohmei rifle on my pallet just for that. And the only time I use my rifle, is for SE and support (support, which, now has an added function, thanks to the knockdown of rifles). >_>


On 2008-05-03 12:15, ARASHIKAGE wrote:
3. Someone mentioned lvl 41+ bullets for Rilfes. What if there is a class that will get lvl 41+ on the Bow? Do you like 50% element on your weapons? Believe it.
Bows 4 life! =P


Lv41 rifles have a 45% elemental modifier, if I'm not mistaken. Throw on a higher ATP mod, and a higher rate of fire, rifles will be better in every way. Damage, application of speed, and support.

Rifles really needed the boost they got, but, as a result, bows have lost a lot of their luster...

[stukasa]

Bows look better but rifles are more useful. Honestly, I'd love to use bows but I just can't find many good uses for them. As a fT it's actually faster for me to knock a flying enemy out of the sky with a handgun and then kill it with Nosdiga than it is to fire at it with a bow. The only time bows are my best option is during certain boss fights. Other than that, cards or something else work just as well or better than bows.

As a fG/GT I use rifles all the time. The faster rate of fire and knockdown effect make them more useful than bows. They're also great on Neudaiz when I want to stay out of the Olgohmons' Barta range. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[dogg1000]

Well im a rifle fan but to support arash bows owned rifle imo b4 the rifle boost as a M beast GT with a lv21 bullet my non-crit shots did 1000+ dmg, rifles werent even capping 650 at that time but now i can pump out alot more dmg with a rifle for that increase rifles really needed. =D

[Criss]

I play GT, and I don't use either. But that's mainly because of my strafe-while-shooting playstyle. I hate having to stand still and become a sitting duck just so I can attack enemies. I used to use bows until AoI, but bows just don't compare to the multiple-bullet or rapidfire weapons GTs get for damage. The only real advantage is the range and SE, but with AoI, Xbows have good enough SE and twin handguns has enough range for my needs.

Bows were better until recently IMO, but with the stat boost that rifle PAs just got, I'd say rifles are better than bows overall.

[Xefi]

Right now, I can't denied the fact that rifle's bullets are way too fun with level 31+ elemental bullets; increase % plus knockdown are really hard to pass up on. Therefore, rifle gets a vote from me.

I hope bow will get a good addition updates to it soon so that it can be even more enjoyable and fun to use: knockdown, knock up, or something of that sort. But then again, I love using bow on the protranser class and seem to enjoy using it too.

Rifle is winning only slightly right now, but i still have some hope that bow will be better later on.

[Dragwind]

Rifles > Bows. There's really no argument for bows over rifles at this point, other than personal favorite or looks. Even in v.1, still, rifles > bows. Just the faster rate of fire outperformed them.

[stukasa]

On 2008-05-04 00:28, RubySion wrote:
I hope bow will get a good addition [...] knock up
That would be SO awesome.

Only 31+ bullets, of course. That way only GT and PT would get it, which works well because they're both good support classes.

[Astarin]

I still prefer longbows in terms of style. But yeah, the recent rifle update has made them better than longbows in every way but one. Longbows still level much faster. For that reason alone, I keep a single longbow in my inventory for SE 4 application. Although to be honest, I find I use it less and less, now that I have four crossbow bullets over level 21...

[Sexy_Raine]

Rifles are better now. Bows are just slow, and really don't help FT much.

My Nova has Burning Shot lv40, dark shot lv40, Rising shot lv37, frozen Shot lv36, and killer shot lv36. Killer shot doesn't get knockdown at +31 btw.

lv31 rifles are only worth it if you play fortegunner mainly, and any other class secondary since only them and GT can use it. If you play the classes the that have bows, then there's really no choice.

If you're a GT, and have high lv'ed elemental bows PA's, don't bother doing rifles of those same elements since it's pretty much a waste of time having 2 similar PA's, and won't be much of a damage difference as guntecher.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2008-05-05 00:55 ]</font>

[Winter_of_uno]

Only class that can use both is GT.

Pro Bow:
- levels much easier
- ignores defense on some mobs

Pro Rifle:
- Much better DPS through faster firing rate
- last update gave rifle even better % and modifiers

I play fG and PT mainly, so I use both without having the choice in one class.

[AlMcFly]

Hahaha! This is the thread that got me banned from the Sega official forums. I was being a meanie to a guy that was complaining that longbows aren't as good as rifles anymore. He was pissed that longbows haven't gotten any update yet and rifles completely surpassed them.

[panzer_unit]

lol! McFly giving someone a hard time on message boards? NEVER.

Rifles pretty much dominate bows now. It's already been pointed out there's only one job where that fact matters though... I'm okay with bow being more or less a crappy rifle to make PT and techer jobs feel special during boss fights.
Rifles needed the love they got because other Fortegunner weapons just blow 'em away. SE4 isn't really necessary, SE3 on anything will do the job just fine... even SE2 from a shotgun considering how you can score like 10 hits per pull of the trigger on large multi-target enemies.

The long-range ultimate Bow PA isn't bad for some bosses. Shooting slowly for moderate damage beats the pants off of not shooting at all when the boss decides to waste a bunch of time teleporting/flying around/etc. You can pack any other range weapon with proper elements when they come closer.

[ARASHIKAGE]

I support my friends: dogg, sexy_raine, tetsaru, panzer, (Whos opinions I greatly respect). The Rilfe has alot going for now, and I also support the upgrade in the Rifle.

My #1 "go to" weapon after playing as RAmar in our PSO days, was the Rilfe. Followed closely by the Mechs (I really miss those u_u) and of course the Shot (still a priceless tool). imo I think there should be 3 weapons at the top of this game for highest potential:
SWORD, RIFLE, ROD.
(im old school like that)
And hopefully with masterclasses we will see these weapons shine bright.

Back on topic...
I think the Rilfe is a important part of this game and a vital asset for any ranger. Bows still appeal to me more for reasons listed earlier (this isnt the first time ive fought on the losing side).

P.S. Thx to all those weighing on my Pol, lots of good opinions out there.

Much luv to:
DaFam (Word.), DreamStar, and all my Arashikage ninjas out there! "Train hard, fight easy!"

[amtalx]

Bows are just for looks now. Rifles only hit for a handful less per shot...but hit ~30 times more per minute...with knockdown.

[R2D6battlebot]

There was never a time when bows were better than rifles, rifles have always fired faster AND had longer range, therefore making them have both more DPS and being better at inflicting SEs. The only major downside to rifles is that they take forever to level.

[ARASHIKAGE]

I know in stoking a fire by saying this but I'm not going to let this go unchallenged.

Rifles and Bow bullet PAs have always lvled at the same rate. And as for range they are equal as well. I agree that Bows have a pause to get going but the rate of fire is the same. (if there was, its by the slimmest of margins). There are many of difference between the two but those aren't a factor.

I'd also like to point out Bows have more acc, therefore striking crhits more offten. That plus ignoring dfp on most bosses kinda throws a wrench into the whole DPS debate.

[amtalx]

Level a Bow and a Rifle bullet to 40 and see which one gets there first. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Bows fire 64 times per minute; Rifles fire 100.

Even ignoring DFP, Rifles still far outclass Bows in terms of damage because of the rate of fire.

Anything else. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: amtalx on 2008-05-05 20:30 ]</font>

[DarkEliteRico]

1500 with a 5/8 blackbull, lvl 29 grav shot on DG's boss....not shabby, can't wait to see it at 41+

[ARASHIKAGE]

On 2008-05-05 20:25, ARASHIKAGE wrote:
I know in stoking a fire by saying this but I'm not going to let this go unchallenged.

Rifles and Bow bullet PAs have always lvled at the same rate. And as for range they are equal as well. I agree that Bows have a pause to get going but the rate of fire is the same. (if there was, its by the slimmest of margins). There are many of difference between the two but those aren't a factor.

I'd also like to point out Bows have more acc, therefore striking crhits and SEs more offten. That plus ignoring dfp on most bosses kinda throws a wrench into the whole DPS debate.

[Astarin]

On 2008-05-05 20:25, ARASHIKAGE wrote:
Rifles and Bow bullet PAs have always lvled at the same rate.


Ha! HA! Surely, you jest. Go buy one of each, and tell me which one levels to... I dunno, pick a milestone. Level 11, even. See which one gets there first.

But yes, the rate of fire is actually pretty close between the two. Rifles are still faster, though. Just, the delay is after you fire with a Rifle, and with a Longbow, the delay is before you fire.

[panzer_unit]

Bows also slow down as they level up. I thought they fired about as fast as rifles at low levels, they're noticably slower now. In terms of damage rate, even HANDGUN is better unless you're flattening photons on the side of some high defense bullet-resistant target.

I got Ensei-Sou to lv7 in one run of Grove Of Fanatics A back in the day. They level stupidfast compared to other guns, the only problem is finding situations where you can use them in a practical way since they have no multi-target capability and not much stopping power :

Mopping up leftovers after you've wrecked a group of monsters with a laser cannon (also being leveled) is one good use. It also makes you level up your laser cannon, which is even better.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-05-06 06:49 ]</font>

[Hiro_EtBlue]

Rifles are better than bows in my opinion. Though I have little experience with rifles (haven't gotten around to leveling rifle bullets yet on my Fortegunner) and even less with bows (haven't used them since my early Wartecher days).

[dc534]

Well the bow for me has always been a boss weapon to me, so I actually say bows are more useful because of how little people use rifles anyways. They do more damage ignore defense and are better overall boss killing weapons, and still are faster to lvl than the rifle. Sure rifles are better at fighting small to medium enimies now but most of the time people use bows on bosses or flying enemies so it really is not a big deal that the rifle got a little bit better. I still prefer the bow from my GT, PT days and well now I am going WT so I will enjoy it their as well.

[kilforfun]

bows look way better than rifles... to be fair: thats the only reason i use bows...

[ThePendragon]

I love the delay, I don't get the complaints. Its perfect in first person more for fast moving enemies.