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View Full Version : You know, I kind of liked having a main character.



furrypaws
May 4, 2008, 12:39 PM
Sure, Ethan was lame in every aspect, but I liked having a main character who had a background and a story, and who I could develop and control. Of course, they need to allow createable characters with story missions, and they need to include some sort of items transfer from the story character to yours, but I really want to see the return of a playable protaganist with a voice. I also don't want to have my character have a voice, since 1) The computerized voices are awful and 2) Sega would probably make my character as cheezy as Ethan, which I really don't want.

Anyone with me?

therealAERO
May 4, 2008, 01:03 PM
Completely, all the episodes after 1 are sub par. I liked that there would be story development pretty much after every scenario. It felt like an actual RPG... The problem with our new episodes isn't just the lack of anything, its the fact that it is stale. We can no longer move about the city talking to NPCs in story mode. We are driven to where we need to go, and the only time to interact is in a mission, or the newly added; choices. In PSO the story missions were much better and overall a more satisfying experience. I say if you choose to go do a story mode mission it should lock you out of being in the same server as other players, that way you can run around and talk to story NPCs without the distraction of the human element. Hopefully you understood that

Zorafim
May 4, 2008, 01:03 PM
Ep.1's main character was lolEthan. Ep.2's main character was lolLaia. Something tells me that Ep.3's main character will be lolLumia. They're still there, you just can't control it.

Frankly, I'm just where I want to be. Though the control you're given in ep2 was ridiculously minimal considering you did all the work, I like how my character interacts in ep3. It was kind of nice having stories not related to you or the guardians, though.

Kanore
May 4, 2008, 02:21 PM
Sil'fer, Kranz, Ino'lis, Break, Endu, Reiz >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Karen, Ethan, Laia, Leo, Tonnio, Maya, Hyuga, Lou.

EDIT: Oh, you meant Ep 2 and Ep 3 being 'You.' Well then. Just like the PSO stages, they went too far with people requesting that things be like PSO again.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kanore on 2008-05-04 12:22 ]</font>

furrypaws
May 4, 2008, 02:29 PM
Yes, EP3 story>This one. Did I ever say it wasn't?

therealAERO, that's what I was originally going to post, but my version was like 4 paragraphs-wall-o'-text format.

Yeah, I liked to be able to run around and do things before missions. Technically you can do that now, but the PSU story moved to the next you wanted to go on or not, and that's what I liked.

Zorafim
May 4, 2008, 02:50 PM
One thing I did not like was, you were given an urgent mission that you had to attend to the instant you finished the one you just did. And then, you weren't able to do that mission for a month, due to it not being unlocked.

Shinko
May 4, 2008, 03:00 PM
On 2008-05-04 11:03, therealAERO wrote:
Completely, all the episodes after 1 are sub par. I liked that there would be story development pretty much after every scenario. It felt like an actual RPG... The problem with our new episodes isn't just the lack of anything, its the fact that it is stale. We can no longer move about the city talking to NPCs in story mode. We are driven to where we need to go, and the only time to interact is in a mission, or the newly added; choices. In PSO the story missions were much better and overall a more satisfying experience. I say if you choose to go do a story mode mission it should lock you out of being in the same server as other players, that way you can run around and talk to story NPCs without the distraction of the human element. Hopefully you understood that



Yea... i agree with this completely. that would make it much better. I though it would be like that anyway but that my fault for expecting alot from sega

Ffuzzy-Logik
May 4, 2008, 03:14 PM
While some of this is true, the supreme shittiness of Episode 1's plot more than makes up for some of its, errr, "redeeming" qualities mentioned here.

TecherRamen
May 4, 2008, 06:26 PM
You Dare challenge the MIGHT of Ethan Waber?

totally with you

Minamo
May 4, 2008, 06:40 PM
Well, the story mission for me is......

to receive cards and find some items more easily than the other places. It also let me know that the father of Ethan and Lumia is very weak. So great I eventually get Karen's card in chapter 6.

joefro
May 4, 2008, 06:53 PM
On 2008-05-04 16:40, Minamo wrote:
Well, the story mission for me is......

to receive cards and find some items more easily than the other places. It also let me know that the father of Ethan and Lumia is very weak. So great I eventually get Karen's card in chapter 6.







I totally agree. I can't wait for Chapter 6, Blackbull on A rank and the [B] Blackbull on B rank. I can't wait.

Sinue_v2
May 4, 2008, 07:15 PM
Wait... you mean, some people actually LIKED PSO ep III's storyline?!? Some people liked PSU's storyline?

Wow...

Anyhow, Wren and Meiu > any character in PSO/PSU. Oh, and Lassic/Zio > Magashi/Hauzer or... erm... Leo? Did PSO even HAVE a main antagonist?

RemiusTA
May 4, 2008, 07:29 PM
On 2008-05-04 11:03, therealAERO wrote:
Completely, all the episodes after 1 are sub par.


Lol die plz

All i remember about Ep.1 was the really quick and cheezy way they killed off whatsherface.

It was great, but i like Ep.2 far more than ep.1, even without the cutscenes and such. Its actually just far better story progression and missions. Ep.1 missions put me to sleeeepppp

Juza
May 4, 2008, 07:31 PM
On 2008-05-04 17:15, Sinue_v2 wrote:
Some people liked PSU's storyline?

Yes. PSU > PSO. (At least the original and V2; never played the rest, I was too disgusted by that point!)

PSO was, "Some stuff is happening! Nobody knows what! Maybe? Perhaps? MITTS DUMB POUM! Oh noes I'm lost in the Ruins, boo hoo, it's dark and scary."

Shut up Rico, and drop me my four slot Celestial armor. >.<


On 2008-05-04 17:15, Sinue_v2 wrote:
Anyhow, Wren and Meiu > any character in PSO/PSU. Oh, and Lassic/Zio > Magashi/Hauzer or... erm... Leo? Did PSO even HAVE a main antagonist?


I think you're understanding it.

Wren, Mieu, and even Demi > the entire cast of PSO/U CASTs.

Lassic, Zio, Seth - FOR THE LOVE OF THE PD SETH! > all of PSO/U's 'antagonists'. Dr. Mad from PS1 > PSO/U's antagonists. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Nei and Rika > PSO/U's space elves.

Alys > every last hunter from PSO/U.

Oh, and Raja > all. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

But this is really obvious. The original series were old school games. MMOGs, to the last, all lack any sort of decent story. In that regard, if you look around at other MMOGs - instead of at the old PS games - PSU has a surprisingly good story.

Garnet_Moon
May 4, 2008, 08:21 PM
What's wrong with you? The cheesy voice acting is what makes a hero such a great playable character!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Genl242_ZU8

Link is very, very related.

Zorafim
May 4, 2008, 08:47 PM
On 2008-05-04 18:21, Garnet_Moon wrote:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Genl242_ZU8




That was awesome beyond any possible definition of the word.

Xaeris
May 4, 2008, 09:09 PM
Ah, rosy pink glasses of nostalgia; is there nothing you can't fit a prescription for?

Zorafim
May 4, 2008, 09:10 PM
You realize some of us played the original games after playing PSO, right?

JaiBlue
May 4, 2008, 09:16 PM
On 2008-05-04 18:21, Garnet_Moon wrote:
What's wrong with you? The cheesy voice acting is what makes a hero such a great playable character!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Genl242_ZU8

Link is very, very related.



AHHHH, How do you like me NOW!?!?!

Sinue_v2
May 4, 2008, 09:25 PM
Yes. PSU > PSO. (At least the original and V2; never played the rest, I was too disgusted by that point!)

I thought PSO had a better storyline that PSU... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif At least Ep I & II. Ep III and BB got really silly.

I mean, yeah, it was technically inferior and almost non-existent compaired to PSU. But what WAS there was pretty good if they would have expanded on it. Well, at least if they had expanded on it and not gone completely off the sanity wagon. From a technical standpoint, both PSU and PSO have far more fleshed out stories and dialog than any of the old games. Most of them combined even. It's just that the plots (since that's all most of the old games were - just meandering between plotpoints) for the new games don't measure up.


Dr. Mad from PS1 > PSO/U's antagonists.

I dunno about that... but he was definately more evil than Magashi or any of the other antagonists. He ate kittens! That's F*in hardcore!


What's wrong with you? The cheesy voice acting is what makes a hero such a great playable character!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Genl242_ZU8

Link is very, very related.

I can't see it. Did Pakistan break the internet again?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2008-05-04 19:26 ]</font>

Xaeris
May 4, 2008, 09:39 PM
On 2008-05-04 19:10, Zorafim wrote:
You realize some of us played the original games after playing PSO, right?



That wasn't for you. Well, I'm sure I could find some words to say about how you've repeatedly demonstrated that you would have much preferred PSU to be PS IV: Online, but that's for another day.

No, that little gem was pointed towards the idea that a villain with a portion of the memory on an 8 Bit cartridge to work with could seriously be characterized better than even the most meager efforts of the present day.

Zorafim
May 4, 2008, 10:34 PM
On 2008-05-04 19:39, Xaeris wrote:
No, that little gem was pointed towards the idea that a villain with a portion of the memory on an 8 Bit cartridge to work with could seriously be characterized better than even the most meager efforts of the present day.




Sad thing is, most genesis enemies are actually more fleshed out than the PSU enemies. Though I'll admit I liked Magashi before he went all cloney and homosexual (long fingernails, feminine body figure, etc), he doesn't have any depth to him. Just like Lashic, who used his rule for Tyranny all the sudden, or the corrupted program Mother Brain, his motives couldn't even fill an 8-bit cartridge.
Hell, at least you could assume Lashic's and Mother Brain's motives based on the information you're given. Lashic got possessed during a black magic ritual, Mother Brain was created specifically to corrupt and weaken the people of Algo. What does Magashi do? Random terrorist acts, killing people who don't side with him... And we don't even know why.

The only reason people are evil in PSU is because ST says so. They're pretty much copy/pastes from other stories.

I'm not sure where you'd get the idea that a villain made in this era is automatically better than one made from a previous era, unless you're of the thought that newer=better. Which, actually seems disturbingly popular...

And why would you assume I thought you were talking about me?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zorafim on 2008-05-04 20:43 ]</font>

DAMASCUS
May 4, 2008, 10:54 PM
I don't know much of the Phantasy Star legacy but it is very sad that NOTHING since PSO(including) has even been unique and worthy of the namesake. I naively hoped that the Illuminus would bring some actual plot to this game but apparently only if it would have stayed a moving comic...

P.S. From the topic I thought you meant that you missed your 'main' account...I know I do http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DAMASCUS on 2008-05-04 20:59 ]</font>

Xaeris
May 4, 2008, 11:52 PM
I'm not sure where you'd get the idea that a villain made in this era is automatically better than one made from a previous era, unless you're of the thought that newer=better. Which, actually seems disturbingly popular...

Hardly. I subscribe to the theory that says when your medium becomes capable of displaying more and more, the character potential of a game increases. Basically, if you can make your characters move their limbs, turn their heads, speak, you're much more likely to make an impression with those fellows than you are with the people that are represented by lanky sprites on screen and have their dialogue squished to fit in the cartridge.

It's possible for characters from past eras to be deeper than the present. But for that to happen, either the past characters have to be made of genius and win (not present here), or the present characters have to be composed of utter fail (arguable).

In my humble opinion, Magashi's voice all by itself outevil'ed pretty much all past villains.

Zorafim
May 5, 2008, 12:29 AM
On 2008-05-04 21:52, Xaeris wrote:
In my humble opinion, Magashi's voice all by itself outevil'ed pretty much all past villains.



Magashi's voice by itself made v1 much better than it actually was. It's amazing what that actor was able to do, especially when compared to the other voice actors of the game.
Of course, when separated from his all-mighty voice and fearsome wings as seen in ep2, he ends up pretty lame... The finger nails really don't help.

As for your argument, it is indeed true that a character has a greater potential to be deep if given more ways to express their thoughts. However, I've noticed the opposite be true most of the times. The more opportunities given to make a great character, the worse the character ends up being. This is not at all true in all cases, but it normally works out like a book vs a movie. The book always turns out to be better in the end.

Of course, this could turn out to simply be my imagination at work. When given no animations and little duologue, I end up using the animations and speech I am given and assume the character is like that all the time. I tend to fill in the blanks, in other words. Given 3D characters, there are no blanks to be filled, and I see the character best portrayed as the way the artist intended. Of course, half the time this character does menial stuff and acts like a dork, due to him not being able to be cool all the time. Those are the times that stick out when I think of the character, so that's what I end up thinking of the character overall. This is as opposed to the 8 bit sprites, which you only really see killing the dragon and saving the orphans.

Atomic646
May 5, 2008, 12:23 PM
I personally think that we should have growing characters depending on our level, like Link from Zelda.

Kylie
May 5, 2008, 12:28 PM
I agree. AOI's offline mode was hard to get through, even once, because it was basically just Episode 2 with no new cut scenes or anything (except that Laia intro), which was boring enough the first time... Episode 1 was annoying at times, but at least it actually felt like a story mode and had CGI's to keep players interested. I mean, who likes reading a bunch of boring text all the time? Not me.

Juza
May 5, 2008, 04:05 PM
On 2008-05-04 21:52, Xaeris wrote:
Hardly. I subscribe to the theory that says when your medium becomes capable of displaying more and more, the character potential of a game increases. Basically, if you can make your characters move their limbs, turn their heads, speak, you're much more likely to make an impression with those fellows than you are with the people that are represented by lanky sprites on screen and have their dialogue squished to fit in the cartridge.

It's possible for characters from past eras to be deeper than the present. But for that to happen, either the past characters have to be made of genius and win (not present here), or the present characters have to be composed of utter fail (arguable).


Maybe I wax nostalgic far too deeply, but I've yet to encounter on any next-generation console/etc. the same emotional response as walking up to one of Lassic's troopers and having them state - very simply - unless you would like to *die*, you had best stay here.

Oh, and call me when PSU manages to pull off the emotional WTF that was Darum and Tiem. Flashy graphics and other technological terrors are inconsequential next to the power of the Force.

Err, that is, good character design.

Sinue_v2
May 5, 2008, 06:37 PM
Oh, and call me when PSU manages to pull off the emotional WTF that was Darum and Tiem.

Dohgi and Mirei Mikuna. Yeah, Mirei and Karen had a big Nei-Neifirst overtone to it, but that scene where Dohgi kills Karen is a direct Darum-Tiem reference.

amtalx
May 5, 2008, 06:44 PM
I was unaware this game had a story mode.

WHY DOES NO ONE TELL US THESE THINGS!?

Astarin
May 5, 2008, 07:28 PM
On 2008-05-04 16:40, Minamo wrote:
Well, the story mission for me is......

to receive cards and find some items more easily than the other places. It also let me know that the father of Ethan and Lumia is very weak. So great I eventually get Karen's card in chapter 6.


Really? You get Karen's card? When you bring her into battle, is she Guardians Karen, or Divine Maiden Karen?

Zorafim
May 5, 2008, 08:09 PM
How, dem's some massive spoilers. I've wanted Karen's partner card since I finished ep1. She's definitely going to be my most used NPC, especially if she ends up being good.

Stezan
May 5, 2008, 08:57 PM
On 2008-05-04 17:15, Sinue_v2 wrote:

Did PSO even HAVE a main antagonist?



Well no, but it wasn't necessary. All the 'villains' of PSO were people taking advantage of a bad situation - Black Paper(the mob essentially)- or by making poor decisions that end up screwing everyone else - Dr. Osto's research of D-Cells and choice not to tell Pioneer 2 of the hostile environment of Ragol when Flowen advised it; or Ep3's governments fear of Corral and therefore choice to develop CARD technology.

I never played the original PS games, but I like the PSO 'villains' because they are real in that they fall prey to human weakness rather than just having a Power hunger.

furrypaws
May 5, 2008, 09:20 PM
I decided to play PSU EP1 over again, and I forgot how awful the combat/voice acting was. Plus, Ethan was a complete dork. But, if you ignore all the cheesiness, it was actually pretty decent. I hope they remake it with better combat.

Aha, my favorite Ethan being a loser moment was probably in Chapter 8. Well, we know Maya and Dr. Taragi worked together, Maya seems to heavily dislike him and is sort of childish when he tells her to be careful, and he hints at wanting to stay in the same division with Maya. Then, we have a cutscene where Ethan literally says, "So...what exactly went on between you and Dr. Taragi?", not to mention it came right after Maya mentioned something that she only could've noticed after spending a lot of time with Kou. GEE, Ethan, what do you think?

Part of what made EP1 cool was that there were cutscenes, and break lobbies inside missions where you could talk and interact with other NPCs while you were in mission, not to mention a bunch of NPCs scattered throughout the game. Offline AoI has like, 4.

I think what I really disliked most about EP2 and EP3, is they're just regular missions with some text. As in, could be 100% achieved with RP. That's no fun.

Zorafim
May 5, 2008, 09:39 PM
Basically, you liked that ep1 wasn't a cheap online experience? I tend to agree. Despite being limited to PSU's mechanisms, ep1 managed to make the world feel like a traditional RPG world. I don't see why more of this couldn't be implemented, though it may be a question of memory space.

Heh, I'm imagining PSU with a traditional MMO's quest system. Start quest, talk to said NPC, obtain key item, use item to activate non-sellable item to drop from certain mission, report back to said NPC, run through various missions to go to certain area, unable to use teleporters, fight boss, return to counter, get prize. That sounds so entertaining, and it'd be a great break from the norm.