Paradi Cataract on C?

[pikachief]

does it drop on C rank?

me and my friends have been running C's for a while looking for one and they cost a whole 8+ mil for one!

[ashley50]

keep running...
Once it drops. There's your answer...

[pikachief]

i see u play on JP servers i'll take that as a yes lol

[Scottbot]

I'm doing some solo c runs at the mo trying to get hold of one or two. How much r they goin for at the mo out of interest... i'm hoping to use it to fund the rattlesnake i want to buy

[pikachief]

how much are they selling for on PC/PS2?

[Nani-chan]

Only 4 up 17m, 20m, 25m, 50m. When the supply goes up the price should come down.

[Scottbot]

bout 9million on the xbox at the mo

[Schubalts]

On 2008-05-10 16:52, Nani-chan wrote:
Only 4 up 17m, 20m, 25m, 50m. When the supply goes up the price should come down.



Hahaha. I saw ones earlier for 10 million.

[OmgHi]

dropping pretty fast, 8 up now lowest going for 7m

[Ragna_Divide]

6 runs on C so far. 1 on A, 1 on S.

C Run 1-2: Nothing
C Run 3: Paradi Cataract
A Run: Nothing
S Run: Nothing
C Run 4-5: Nothing
C Run 6: Flowen's Greatsword (20% Light)

[youthisoverrated]

what kind of luck did you have? lik 1 star?

[OmgHi]

luck has no effect on boss drops since all boxes are 100% drop already

luck doesn't count towards the rarity of drops

[Kylie]

Nice. I'll have to do some C runs later.

[Envoke]

Yeah, I literally JUST ran C and saw one drop >.> The person who popped in during the last 2 minutes of ruins got it *facepalm* Bah!

[pikachief]

i was helping soemoen level up and everyone agreed it would go to me except for one person.

of course after 6 horus of hutning it drops. of course it goes to that one person.


siufgsahpofgsa]piofgas]!!!!!!!

[youthisoverrated]

On 2008-05-10 18:34, OmgHi wrote:
luck has no effect on boss drops since all boxes are 100% drop already

luck doesn't count towards the rarity of drops



i keep trying to tell people that but no one listens >:|

[TUSCAN]

no one listens because it's not true. each stage of luck is basically like a 5 or 10 percent increace in the rates used to randomly select what drops. if an item has a 1 in 100 chance of dropping even a 50% increase means nothing. the rarity of the drops has already been determined by the rank of the run, the luck gives the rares a slightly better chance at beating the non-rares to drop. when people expect results from a random number generator most will surely be dissapointed.

[youthisoverrated]

On 2008-05-10 21:52, TUSCAN wrote:
no one listens because it's not true. each stage of luck is basically like a 5 or 10 percent increace in the rates used to randomly select what drops. if an item has a 1 in 100 chance of dropping even a 50% increase means nothing. the rarity of the drops has already been determined by the rank of the run, the luck gives the rares a slightly better chance at beating the non-rares to drop. when people expect results from a random number generator most will surely be dissapointed.



that's actually pretty funny cus i get better stuff when i have no luck compared to 3. on 3 it's just more of the crap drops.

[Zellis]

Got one on my First DF run! A-Rank. Hello New Carriguine-Rucar Ive been wanting! Sold for 8mil on x-box. Trying for a second to Save. Done DF prolly 20 times only seen it once, So Im assumeing its sorta rare, Well, off to do some Cs!

[Sylpheed]

On 2008-05-10 21:52, TUSCAN wrote:
no one listens because it's not true. each stage of luck is basically like a 5 or 10 percent increace in the rates used to randomly select what drops. if an item has a 1 in 100 chance of dropping even a 50% increase means nothing. the rarity of the drops has already been determined by the rank of the run, the luck gives the rares a slightly better chance at beating the non-rares to drop. when people expect results from a random number generator most will surely be dissapointed.



This dosen't apply to boss boxes. All of them have 100% drop rate. You cant inrease the drop rate of something that already drops an item 100% of the time.

This has already been proved multiple times. Look at the winter event for example. Drop rates from those boxes weren't increased which is why there still werent many rare boards up for sale then before. The only reason there were more than before is because everyone and they're mum was running it.

[Zorafim]

I remember distinctly hearing something about this SUV dropping three times in two runs? Now who was it who said that again...?

[SickPuP]

Whoever says luck doesn't effect boss box drops is lying...read: http://psupedia.info/Luck

Only the luck of the party leader is used so find someone with good luck and join their party or make them host of your party.

[TUSCAN]

oh man....the boss box drops 100% of the time. each item it drops has a drop rate. these rates compete with each other. ones with better rates have an advantage.

[Sekani]

On 2008-05-11 08:50, SickPuP wrote:
Whoever says luck doesn't effect boss box drops is lying...read: http://psupedia.info/Luck

What the hell, it doesn't say that anywhere.

However, in the interests of preventing misinformation from spreading, I've updated that article.

[GreenArcher]

Luck effects-

Grinding
DAR of monsters. That's DROP ANYTHING RATE. In theory, with 3* luck (compared to 0* luck) you will see more S ranks, you will see more Kerselines, you will see more Vestalines, you will see more of EVERYTHING. Note that boss boxes drop and item every time, so luck does nothing for boss boxes.

I thought we settled this over a year ago <_<

[Dragwind]

Nah, people forget everything and get too lazy to look up information, so they post and wait for replies instead.

[McLaughlin]

And when someone did look it up, the article was outdated.

Huh.

[jayster]

hundreds of runs at DG S2 and found nothing. Had 3* luck for 5 days in a row and I found 4 rattlesnake boards and a shigga baret board. I don't care what people say, I think it effects boss boxes. I always find my best stuff with better luck. Granted once in a while I'll find something good with no luck.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jayster on 2008-05-11 12:53 ]</font>

[Ragna_Divide]

Except it doesn't affect boss boxes.

[youthisoverrated]

ok tonight we settle this. i'll ask one of the gm's and see what they and hopefully they'll know

more than likely not though

[Neith]

Luck DOES NOT affect boss boxes...

All luck affects is:
- Grinding
- Drop-anything rates. You may have noticed monsters don't always drop an item. This is because they have a drop-anything rate (it was the same in PSO). For example, if a monster's DAR is 40%, then there is a 60% chance it won't drop anything. Having a higher amount of luck increases the DAR. Again, for example, Lv3 luck might give an extra 10-15% to that rate, making items in general, NOT just rares drop more.

For boss boxes, DAR does not apply. Boss boxes ALWAYS contain an item, whether it's a Berry, a Note Seed, or [insert flashy item here]. Since the DAR is already 100%, it can't be improved any more and it consequently not affected by luck increases.

jayster, your experience is just luck. (personal luck, not in-game luck). While you have that argument, I've found:
- 3 Rattlesnakes on 0 luck
- 4 Orpad / Guards on 0-1 luck
- 7 Tesbras on 0-1 luck (from TD S2 before anyone assumes it's Falz)

Basically, if you're hunting a rare that drops from a monster, having higher luck will be a benefit (though not a huge one, as a lot of people know). If you're hunting a boss drop, it doesn't matter what your luck is.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: UrikoBB3 on 2008-05-11 14:11 ]</font>

[Ragna_Divide]

Now if I could just get a god damned S-rank armor.

Can't even solo Plains Overlord S2 to get the board for a dinky Storm Line, and Shinowa Lines are nowhere to be found. Ugh. Sucks so hard having it just sitting in storage with no way to use it.

How people get tens of millions to buy armor in this game is beyond me. The funny part is that I actually have to DOWNGRADE my armor to equip Paradi.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ragna_Divide on 2008-05-11 14:14 ]</font>

[DoubleJG]

Just found myself a Paradi Cataract on my first C run.

Like Ragna, I don't own any S rank armors. I can afford a board, but lack the 30 polymers. Sure, I can afford those too, but ugh.. Way too much meseta. Also, Shinowa Lines are much more common these days Ragna thanks to MAG.

[Scottbot]

out of interest what does the actual p. cataract drop look like? is it green like a room decoration or blue like a trimate or a shield shape like armours??

[OmgHi]

It is a orange shield shape.

Edit: Added a pic.


http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/5719/paradile3.th.jpg (http://img509.imageshack.us/my.php?image=paradile3.jpg)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: OmgHi on 2008-05-11 15:01 ]</font>

[Scottbot]

show off http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif hehe

[Ragna_Divide]

Also, Shinowa Lines are much more common these days Ragna thanks to MAG.

If by "common" you mean "none have been up for sale, board or line itself, for four days in a row", then sure. >_>

Anyone have advice for where one could hunt ideally solo for a Storm Line once I level up some more?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ragna_Divide on 2008-05-11 15:14 ]</font>

[BFGfreak]

On 2008-05-11 15:09, Ragna_Divide wrote:

Also, Shinowa Lines are much more common these days Ragna thanks to MAG.

If by "common" you mean "none have been up for sale, board or line itself, for four days in a row", then sure. >_>

Anyone have advice for where one could hunt ideally solo for a Storm Line once I level up some more?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ragna_Divide on 2008-05-11 15:14 ]</font>
What server are you on anyway, I bought 10 boards for under 100k on the 360 servers

[Itachi1990]

On 2008-05-10 21:55, youthisoverrated wrote:

On 2008-05-10 21:52, TUSCAN wrote:
no one listens because it's not true. each stage of luck is basically like a 5 or 10 percent increace in the rates used to randomly select what drops. if an item has a 1 in 100 chance of dropping even a 50% increase means nothing. the rarity of the drops has already been determined by the rank of the run, the luck gives the rares a slightly better chance at beating the non-rares to drop. when people expect results from a random number generator most will surely be dissapointed.

ya lol i hunted psycho wand plenty of times with 3* luck and one day i didnt have 1* and i found one on the first run i did and the first enemy i kill drop it.

that's actually pretty funny cus i get better stuff when i have no luck compared to 3. on 3 it's just more of the crap drops.

[PALRAPPYS]

On 2008-05-11 12:49, jayster wrote:
hundreds of runs at DG S2 and found nothing. Had 3* luck for 5 days in a row and I found 4 rattlesnake boards and a shigga baret board. I don't care what people say, I think it effects boss boxes. I always find my best stuff with better luck. Granted once in a while I'll find something good with no luck.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jayster on 2008-05-11 12:53 ]</font>


I'm starting to question this too.

Really, nobody has proved anything. Somebody one day said, "Luck affects this and not that." Truly, the only thing we know for sure that is affected by luck is grinding. Every other concept has no way of being proven, unless someone can show me. But through playing the game itself, I don't believe there's any possible method to prove me right or wrong.

For now, all I can believe is that grinding is affected by luck.

[jayster]

On 2008-05-11 19:10, PALRAPPYS wrote:

On 2008-05-11 12:49, jayster wrote:
hundreds of runs at DG S2 and found nothing. Had 3* luck for 5 days in a row and I found 4 rattlesnake boards and a shigga baret board. I don't care what people say, I think it effects boss boxes. I always find my best stuff with better luck. Granted once in a while I'll find something good with no luck.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jayster on 2008-05-11 12:53 ]</font>


I'm starting to question this too.

Really, nobody has proved anything. Somebody one day said, "Luck affects this and not that." Truly, the only thing we know for sure that is affected by luck is grinding. Every other concept has no way of being proven, unless someone can show me. But through playing the game itself, I don't believe there's any possible method to prove me right or wrong.

For now, all I can believe is that grinding is affected by luck.



yup, to much speculation and rumors. Until SEGA states everything luck effects and how it effects it, I'll believe what seems reasonable to me.


I mean, most the people who say luck doesn't effect boss boxes also say that it doesn't effect your chance at getting a rare board or drop from an enemy. Yet they say that it increases your chance at an item. Now a quick question, if you have more items dropping, wouldn't that mean there's more of a chance of a rare board dropping =O

How can you prove it doesn't give you a better chance at a rare in boss boxes? you cant... Since boss boxes have 100% chance of dropping something, my guess is that it assigns each item a value, we can say red, blue, yellow, and green. Say a box has a chance at dropping either a monomate, stelnium, catilium or rattlesnake board. It could work like this:

monomate = red
stelnium = blue
catilium = yellow
rattlesnake board = green

Now think of this like a giant pot. You have 0* luck so your chance at getting better stuff is lower, so in the pot we have 60 reds, 25 blues, 10 yellows, and 5 greens. Then say you have 1* luck, the pot could change like this: 58 reds, 23 blues, 12 yellows, 7 greens. And so on until 3* is something like 55 reds, 20 blues, 15 yellows and 10 greens.

That's how the pot is set up, and since this is random, you could open the boxes 100 times and get a red value each time because it's random and restocks the value after it's picked. But there's still a better chance at the green being randomly picked, it's just random and random can be anything, 15 yellows in a row when you have only 1 yellow value in the whole pot or 100 reds in a row when you have 60 reds in the pot.

I don't think most people know what they're talking about. It can't really be proved because in most instances, it seems like real life luck overrides the games luck system but I do believe it's not as everyone thinks.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jayster on 2008-05-11 19:48 ]</font>

[Ragna_Divide]

On the bright side, got a second Paradi Cataract... so with any luck it'll sell and I can just buy an S rank armor. >_>

[pikachief]

jayster sega has states what luck effects several times and i do recal soemone on the JP ver. saying what luck effects.

stop asking cuz they arent rumors thier facts

[Leah]

On 2008-05-11 19:36, jayster wrote:
I don't think most people know what they're talking about. It can't really be proved


this was really all you needed to post.

[Sekani]

The information we have on Photon Fortune comes from the JP Perfect Bible and/or instruction manual, and has been confirmed several times by SOA staff. So no, we're not making this up.

[pikachief]

On 2008-05-11 21:17, Sekani wrote:
The information we have on Photon Fortune comes from the JP Perfect Bible and/or instruction manual, and has been confirmed several times by SOA staff. So no, we're not making this up.



yes thank you

[desturel]

On 2008-05-11 21:17, Sekani wrote:
The information we have on Photon Fortune comes from the JP Perfect Bible and/or instruction manual, and has been confirmed several times by SOA staff. So no, we're not making this up.

Which would be good if the Perfect Bible and SOA staff hadn't been wrong so many times so far. Stating something as fact and then using sources that have been incorrect in the past is not the best way to "prove" anything.

[SpikeOtacon]

On 2008-05-12 11:02, desturel wrote:

On 2008-05-11 21:17, Sekani wrote:
The information we have on Photon Fortune comes from the JP Perfect Bible and/or instruction manual, and has been confirmed several times by SOA staff. So no, we're not making this up.

Which would be good if the Perfect Bible and SOA staff hadn't been wrong so many times so far. Stating something as fact and then using sources that have been incorrect in the past is not the best way to "prove" anything.



Alright well, we know that the staff can be wrong but if you could be so kind as to post links to where the Perfect Bible has been proven wrong, that would be nice. You see, i'm getting tired of people posting BS with no documented evidence to back up their statements, on either side of the field.

Until I see some strong documented evidence that isn't on a Wiki, you are all wrong in my eyes. Now shut up and play the goddamn game already.

[Sekani]

Sometimes the only proof that satisfies people is the "proof" that says they're right.

Search the PSU official forums if you still care to look.

[SpikeOtacon]

On 2008-05-12 13:20, Sekani wrote:
Sometimes the only proof that satisfies people is the "proof" that says they're right.

Search the PSU official forums if you still care to look.



That's like telling someone to go throw themselves in lava to get to the gold at the end of the rainbow!

...got any fireproof clothes? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Sekani]

Hey, some people might really want that gold. You never know....

[jayster]

On 2008-05-12 13:20, Sekani wrote:
Sometimes the only proof that satisfies people is the "proof" that says they're right.

Search the PSU official forums if you still care to look.



http://boards2.sega.com/psu_board/viewtopic.php?t=77985

those tips by Silver19 must be true because he's an official mod.



EDIT: I found another...

http://boards2.sega.com/psu_board/viewtopic.php?t=78310

So using PA fragments as weapons or traps or something must be true because it's on the official forum and in the official game =O oh wait, why can't I use them like the game states?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jayster on 2008-05-12 13:48 ]</font>

[Garnet_Moon]

Whoever said Paradi Cataract drops like rain is a liar and I want to throw them into a fire ant hill doused in gasoline and light them ablaze.

I've done about 100 runs of various difficulty, and the best i've ever gotten was... everything not an S-Rank. Tons of X-Bows, Note Seeds, armor. Nothing S rank.

...not that I have S-Rank armor my Protranser can wear, so even if I got it i'm still screwed.

[desturel]

On 2008-05-12 13:16, SpikeOtacon wrote:
Alright well, we know that the staff can be wrong but if you could be so kind as to post links to where the Perfect Bible has been proven wrong, that would be nice.

Check the Perfect Bible's drop charts vs the real drops for an example. Any data on the game as far as drops are concerned can be modified by ST at any time. Perfect Bible does not update in real time, thus the information inside of it is out of date. Some is still correct. Some is not.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: desturel on 2008-05-13 12:38 ]</font>

[desturel]

On 2008-05-13 11:12, Garnet_Moon wrote:
...not that I have S-Rank armor my Protranser can wear, so even if I got it i'm still screwed.

Shinowa line board?

[pikachief]

On 2008-05-13 11:12, Garnet_Moon wrote:
Whoever said Paradi Cataract drops like rain is a liar and I want to throw them into a fire ant hill doused in gasoline and light them ablaze.

I've done about 100 runs of various difficulty, and the best i've ever gotten was... everything not an S-Rank. Tons of X-Bows, Note Seeds, armor. Nothing S rank.

...not that I have S-Rank armor my Protranser can wear, so even if I got it i'm still screwed.



dont worry i already did it to myself multiple times

i guess i jsut got very very lucky on JP servers http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

*shots himself in foot again* >.<

me and friend hunting the thing for 10 hours straight and neither of us got one, the next day we hunted another 3 hours and he found one. i still havent gotten one

[desturel]

Since I have some free time right now I thought I would explain why I believe a 100% drop rate can be affected from past experiences.

During Guardians Boost Road Moatoob. Running with a boost rate of 200~300% on Tunnel Recapture S2. In the end boxes you would see more Catilium and Stelnium (a few times with the 300% boost rate, I saw nothing BUT Catilium in the end boxes). Less Soldonium. Almost no Harnium. Running with a boost rate of 50%-%100 you would see more Stelnium. Less Soldonium, Harnium, and Catilium. After boost road, you rarely see Catilium drop in the end boxes. Maybe one every few runs.

Holiday rappy have a 100% drop rate. When doing Forest of Illusion which has a 500% boost to drop rate, holiday rappies dropped nothing but boards (thus the Kohibumiteri flood). If a 100% drop rate was always 100% and not affected by boosts, then you should have been able to get Rappy Feathers, Serafi Feathers, Madam Bella, and BT Lovers from FoI runs. Instead you only got Kohibumiteri boards from the A and S runs. B and C runs always netted you a Love Letter.

Also holiday rappy related the magical wand to cursed pumpkin ratio. At least one magical wand for every 4 rappy Ratio in the event vs. a much smaller percentage of magical wands when doing normal runs.

Jaggo in general - Firebreak = Meow Mustache. I personally had twelve of them by the end of firebreak. Without the firebreak... I've seen a grand total of four non-firebreak Meow Mustache... and that's including the ones in Crimson Beast during Firebreak. This is, of course, counting from the opening of Moatoob when Jaggo were released.

Now when the next Boost Road comes along, whether it is Parum or Neudaiz, I want to see how the boost rates affect the end boxes again.

Personally, I don't think our luck in general alters drops in a large enough manner to really make a noticeable difference, but the 300% and 500% boosts from boost road and "* of Illusion" will definitely show a difference.

Ank Bico, Twin Snowy, Twin Kitty, Twin Bear will likely be the only drops you can get from "Fire Hole of Illusion" should we get that before Jaggo Acte and Jaggo Sonichi are released.

[Schubalts]

On 2008-05-13 12:44, desturel wrote:

On 2008-05-13 11:12, Garnet_Moon wrote:
...not that I have S-Rank armor my Protranser can wear, so even if I got it i'm still screwed.

Shinowa line board?



30 Nanopolymer.

[desturel]

On 2008-05-13 17:08, Schubalts wrote:

On 2008-05-13 12:44, desturel wrote:

On 2008-05-13 11:12, Garnet_Moon wrote:
...not that I have S-Rank armor my Protranser can wear, so even if I got it i'm still screwed.

Shinowa line board?



30 Nanopolymer.



Egg Thieves S? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[jobber]

I got one on C

[AlMcFly]

On 2008-05-13 13:35, desturel wrote:
Jaggo in general - Firebreak = Meow Mustache. I personally had twelve of them by the end of firebreak. Without the firebreak... I've seen a grand total of four non-firebreak Meow Mustache... and that's including the ones in Crimson Beast during Firebreak. This is, of course, counting from the opening of Moatoob when Jaggo were released.


I had like 20 meow mustaches by the level 60 cap. personal luck I guess. By the way, seen 2 Paradi Cataracts drop on S and neither to myself.

Edit: P.S. Of course I only play on the weekends sooo...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: McFlyVII on 2008-05-14 09:10 ]</font>

[Schubalts]

On 2008-05-14 08:23, desturel wrote:

On 2008-05-13 17:08, Schubalts wrote:

On 2008-05-13 12:44, desturel wrote:

On 2008-05-13 11:12, Garnet_Moon wrote:
...not that I have S-Rank armor my Protranser can wear, so even if I got it i'm still screwed.

Shinowa line board?



30 Nanopolymer.



Egg Thieves S? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



Someone willing to go on the mission and let you have the polymers.

[desturel]

On 2008-05-14 13:15, Schubalts wrote:

On 2008-05-14 08:23, desturel wrote:
Egg Thieves S? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Someone willing to go on the mission and let you have the polymers.


I duo it with a friend who needs polymer as well. We don't even worry about the S rank (although we can S rank it duo) and just grab all boxes that contain polymer. Now if you only have random groups to run with, then that might be a bit difficult, but if you even have one normal running mate that is decent enough to be able to duo the run with, it's a great place to farm. Heck, you could just do the first two blocks and stop after you get all of the boxes on North, South, East, West to save yourself some time.