shadoogs, useful or a waste of space?

[gryphonvii]

I don't really like shadoogs, some of my friends swear by them but I find the useless, even as a human acrofighter I stayed with handguns and cards. SO I made this to figure out what the rest of you think. Are shadoogs good or pointless?

[pikachief]

mine does 3 300's WHILE im attacking.

so whatever damage im doing + 900 or so XD

to me that is VERY worth it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Miyoko]

I'm playing AF right now, and honestly, I can't even tell -when- it's attacking. >_>

[SuperChoco]

I think it depends on the class:
WT and AT: useless because of the ability to use Tech-mags
GT: gets it at Srank but they also specialize in one handed guns
fG: look at GT just replace Srank with Arank
AF: I dont know. Its the only class that could be comparable.

[Sasamichan]

Whats a shadoog?

[Kion]

for techers, shadoogs are very worth it. it's much more effective than a card + wand combination as it makes recharging very easy and it fires the entire time while your teching with your wand and does similar damage. and for acrofighter it works really well, using it with slicer easily tags everything in the room. with sabers or daggers; you won't notice it firing except for seeing more enemies with status ailments. it's also good if you PA like crazy; you wont need to open your menu to recharge your melee weapon.

[Schubalts]

On 2008-05-10 20:17, Kion wrote:
for techers, shadoogs are very worth it. it's much more effective than a card + wand combination as it makes recharging very easy and it fires the entire time while your teching with your wand and does similar damage. and for acrofighter it works really well, using it with slicer easily tags everything in the room. with sabers or daggers; you won't notice it firing except for seeing more enemies with status ailments. it's also good if you PA like crazy; you wont need to open your menu to recharge your melee weapon.



You forgot that they also deal damage based on your TP, so techers and Acrofighters can use them to their fullest.

[ThePendragon]

I use them as an AT and a WT. It's free damage and tags enemies well. A handgun is worthless, since you have to alternate it with melee, the damage is a trade-off, whereas with a shadoog it's stacked. Plus, it's pretty good damage. 900+

[Chuck_Norris]

I find them pretty useless myself. Best they do is the SE, and since they fire so slow, I don't see much point. >_>



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chuck_Norris on 2008-05-10 22:16 ]</font>

[NoiseHERO]

Lol are you guys serious? i think you under estimate shadoogs o.o

just use Ice and and earth you wont think they're so useless when all the mons in the room and frozen/stunned works even better paired with a ice frauduke and a daiga if you dont mind using a 10* claw

[stukasa]

I'm a human AF with a Sori / TECH Charge and my Shadoogs do pretty good damage... but that's beside the point, which is that Shadoogs aren't meant for damage, they're meant for status effects! The best one by far is a Ground S-rank Shadoog. The Stun SE works pretty often and is really useful at keeping enemies in place while I attack them.

I really think Shadoogs work best on an AF (which is how it should be). As a techer I find Madoogs more useful than Shadoogs, and as a fG I've got better left hand options.

[Katrina]

I love them when playing AF. Extra damage without switching from your primary 1 hand weapon, 0 PP cost, tech based damage % (good for AF), and status effects. They also hit flying targets without aiming.

The penetrating lazer (which i didn't like at first look) works well with slicers. Positioning straight line targets to maximize the PA's while getting additional extra damage from the R-mag penetrating lazer (also hits multiple in line targets), along with status effects.

The negatives would be some of the firing patterns (Sonichi from MAG for example), the slower speed of penetrating lazer (at times enemies will move before lazer hits), and more damaging L-hand options (though this is debatable, as your primary + r-mag dmg is combined without switching)

At first look I didn't like, but now I do. I'd never say goodbye handguns though, as there are situations where you'll need them / may prefer them over r-mags.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Katrina on 2008-05-10 23:50 ]</font>

[Dertia]

I personally, never use a lefthanded weapon. I use my Sonichi solely for the level 2 ATP down.

[Broodstar1337]

Shadoogs = High Tier

[The_Gio]

I don't think shadoogs replace handguns at all. Every single weapon(and I dont mean just single handed)/PA is good.Just depends on the situation, if your not doing good damage,then your doing something wrong. What I mean by good damage is either like 3/4ths the damage your doing or somewhere around there. Not 3x as much



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The_Gio on 2008-05-11 01:10 ]</font>

[Nani-chan]

If you use a one handed weapon like a whip, dagger, saber and don't use your left hand every 5-10 seconds then a R-Mag is worth it. If you would use a crossbow, card, handgun or T-mag every 1-10 seconds or would prefer to have control over the weapon then don't use R-Mags.

I'm glad I got Sonichi though, I use it with my whip and I get a combination of Shock (Hopefully soon to be stun after MAG) and Def Down (Sonich also knocks down on occasion).

R-Mags are defiantly a situational preference, Wish AT could use Erobzike for it's Stun but I gues Stun on whip and Stun on R-Mag would be would be broken, lol.

[MSAksion]

GUNTECHER - S rank Shadoogs

S rank Left Shadoog
S rank Right WAND
lvl 30 TECH attacks (soon)
lvl 30 SUPPORT & Heal

PURE PWNAGE. GT make the best use of the Shadoog.

But that is only for if you are TECHING. GT focus is still on left hand Guns. You cannot use a Shadoog and an S rank Crossbow, M-gun, or Card fan together and for now with lvl 20 TECH guns are still the way to play GT.

Melee on a GT Is damned useless so i'll use a powerful S wand with my S Shadoog.

Sega now loves Guntechers =3

[Gen2000]

Don't see how free 1k damage, SE3 Burn/Freeze, or knockdown is a bad thing while you attack with your other weapon. So yes they're useful, not amazing, but useful.

[Syl]

On GT, I'd say they're pretty useless, even if you've got a wand for offensive purposes. A crossbow or a card will almost always be a better substitute considering it'll do way more damage and also apply SE's much more quickly, even if you're nuking with the wand. Even a Madoog with other techs will be of more use.

Even with level 30 techs, I still would think it's a waste to have that left hand with practically nothing on it.

On AF though, shadoogs are pretty nifty since it's on autofire and whatnot. I like equipping it with a single claw and using senten.

[relentless]

Never used them, don't even remember most of the names.
But from what I've seen so far, they're not completely useless, but better options as a left-handed weapons exist most of the time.

[Sekani]

On 2008-05-10 20:13, Sasamichan wrote:
Whats a shadoog?


shadoog is the weeaboo-approved nickname for Range-MAGs or RCSMs.

[Sasamichan]

On 2008-05-11 06:57, Sekani wrote:

On 2008-05-10 20:13, Sasamichan wrote:
Whats a shadoog?


shadoog is the weeaboo-approved nickname for Range-MAGs or RCSMs.



Well, I don't approve using that name, unless you play on the eastern version.

[AlphaDragoon]

Ground S-Rank R-Mag = GGPO.

Free stun + damage on groups all day.

[Cz]

nothing is useless, you just have to learn to adapt to it and with the right situation, it will be useful.

[elitehippie]

useless

[Kylie]

Situational. Sometimes you need the extra damage of a shadoog, and sometimes you need the controlled aim of a handgun. I don't think either should be thrown out.

[Proto07]

I use the light 8* kubara R-Mags on my AF. The charm they inflict works great with the single hand PAs. Brings everyone in for Hikai Shuha-zan and Bukuu Saien-zan. Now if only they looked liked Sonichis...

[Sekani]

The only RCSM I've ever found useful is the ground Ebrozike for its stun effect. The rest are a joke; every class that can use them has better options for both damage and status.

[Dragwind]

I've only found them to be useful on aF to be honest. The 10* is very situational though imo, the others I haven't toyed with too much, but I still prefer the other left hand options.

[mvffin]

On 2008-05-11 10:44, Sekani wrote:
The only RCSM I've ever found useful is the ground Ebrozike for its stun effect. The rest are a joke; every class that can use them has better options for both damage and status.



Sonichi is good for classes that can't use ebro.

also, I like using ice whip + ice shadoog with a WT/AT. Frosty!

[gryphonvii]

On 2008-05-11 08:20, Sasamichan wrote:

On 2008-05-11 06:57, Sekani wrote:

On 2008-05-10 20:13, Sasamichan wrote:
Whats a shadoog?


shadoog is the weeaboo-approved nickname for Range-MAGs or RCSMs.



Well, I don't approve using that name, unless you play on the eastern version.


oh well, just look at your name, and unless you moved to Michigan, you don't look very eastern to me either.

[Hiero_Glyph]

Shadoogs are situational at best. As they remain in your left hand you can pair them with a wand or 1-hand striking weapon. As a striking weapon needs to remain within striking range this option would pair better with a Card, Handgun, Crossbow, etc. as it will allow the user to have options at all ranges and control which targets take damage. I use a saber/handgun to pop-up/blowback and handgun at range to close the distance and repeat. A shadoog could work in this situation, but would also pull aggro that I do not want in some cases. When paired with a wand the damage is an added bonus but would often be better replaced with a Madoog. If you are really going to cast the more options you have the better your chances will remain (unless 2 skills is all you ever use).

Overall the uses for a Shadoog can be utilized for status effects (as mentioned previously) but should be determined for each individual area. In some areas a Silence SE would be very useful, while in others it would be pointless. So switching out the active Shadoog is mandatory depending upon the enemies that you are facing. I can see a positive to using Shadoogs, but do not expect them to be an end-game weapon. You need to be smart about choosing when to use one and when to use other options due to their weaknesses.

[Akaimizu]

I used them quite a bit with Acrotecher. Especially as a human. The whip shadoog combo is a pretty awesome combo, to say the least. It kind of takes advantage of balanced TP and ATP stats, mainly because they get use at the same time. It free-fires so it takes nothing from you, and adds on top of damage and/or SE you're doing with the other weapon.

It doesn't look like a lot, but I just can't overlook the aspect of simultaneous activity. It's your main method of multi-tasking in this game. Not a game breaker, but can be an effective balancer.

I also use it more with the Guntecher ever since the TP update. Since the TP now compares a lot closer to the AT, the Shadoogs get better use. I tend to use it in combo with an attack-tech wand to increase my firepower. I'm using a fire shadoog now, and it's pretty neat using it with a fire tech attack. Especially foie. I've noticed that I'm burning even the more stubborn burn folks, more often, with that combo.

Still, situational, though. They don't outperform handguns, by themselves; however, they are very nice companions to single-handed melee and/or single-handed tech options. Needless to say, if it weren't for the TP boost to Guntechers, they'd probably see a lot less use for them given that their right-handed attack options used to suck except for very limited cases (a few mobs in the game). Now that techs are a nice GT alternative for bullet-resistant enemies, this has changed. (Love the new quad-digit numbers of GT techs)

As for pulling aggro, fortunately a GT isn't going to be too worried about a Shadoog doing it. They have too many other standard weapons that do a better job pulling aggro, than that.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2008-05-12 07:00 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

I love RCSM's, even on a Cast. Free damage and SE is always a win.

Fighgunner & Acrofighter are already using slicers at range. RCSM's are free damage and some useful statuses for those guys. WT/GT are the same deal, if I've got an offensive wand I'll always pair it up with a range-mag for two weapon offense. In both cases it's also a big deal to have Photon Charges fully recharge the right-hand weapon since they can (and always do, in my case) burn PP up pretty fast.

I still keep mechguns and cards around as well, paired up with 1h close-combat weapons. Might as well spam a more offensive form of attack whenever the enemy's too far to hit with PA.

[pikachief]

i always bring a shadoog with me with all ym characters! jk my casts suck with it but my cast with a preta is funny http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

i dont get mine for SE i get mine for damage http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif lol good good damage as AF

[DAMASCUS]

Whenever I use an RMag I feel like I'm going to cap out my weapons PA in no time and then have no other good PA to switch to.

More one-handed melee PAs I say!!

P.S. this does open up an interesting discussion about combining status effects...I'll start with DEF down + Confuse Whip

[garjian]

i like the megid one... and a lightning one works well with deva zashi for a shock-silence weapon... but otherwise theyre a bit weak for me.