Why does everyone believe that Debuffs are useless

[Stryker Diaz]

For me I find them insanely useful for huge crowds of monsters and especially when I want to help a noob or friend lvl up, they make it so I get Exp without having to really hit it and so that my friend gets the larger bulk of the exp. So really why does everyone say its useless? Buffs+Debuffs are FTW really because when they are put together a huge difference in power is made between the enemy and you. Thing is I am a completely Support character, Wartecher Support, Guntecher Support, Acrotecher Support, but on Fortetecher I use Offense but still as a huge Support fan I feel that debuffs are just too useful to not include in my pallete, but am I wrong? If so then tell me a huge reason why I shouldnt use them

[ashley50]

Mobs die TOO FAST with a full party?

I mainly use it for tagging a large crowd of Mobs :)

[Stryker Diaz]

I guess, but it all depends on what mission your doing and what enemy, I mainly love using it on the Goazoran cause even though they vanish whenever they show up they are ready for heaps of damage xD

[Dragwind]

Debuffs are hardly useful with fighters around. Sure, their numbers will be higher, beasts might hit more, but the difference is very marginal, even as an aT.

However, they can be useful sometimes on buffed enemies, like SEED Ardites etc, but they still tend to go down fast with a well skilled party.

I've leveled all debuffs and buffs to 31+, but I only find myself using Jellen, and sometimes zoldeel to avoid being knocked down or thrown around by some hard hitting enemies. Thats about it though.

[RAGNAGELPPOD]

Mobs die TOO FAST with a full party?

I mainly use it for tagging a large crowd of Mobs :)


Yah that pretty much sums it up right there. the fact that most mobs are within the time it would ake to cast all 3 debuffs shows that they arent really necessary. Only the enemies who live long enough for you to debuff fully and then join in the offense afterwards are worth the gimping.

[Stryker Diaz]

ya good points but like I said :P I use it for another reason which is too help out noobs and make it easier for them to get the last hit that and usually I only travel with 3 people at a time to avoid people greedily snatching away weapons that they dont need

[Indica]

Debuffs are great, I was using it to lower defense on some groups of monsters at MAG.

LV140+ Monsters that are debuffed will be more popular in the next several months

[ashley50]

Buffs are enough to get the Job done imo ;l

[Stryker Diaz]

oh btw I never was able to figure this out is Debuffing considered an attacking spell? so if I were to attempt to lvl it up all the way what class should I use?

[ashley50]

oh btw I never was able to figure this out is Debuffing considered an attacking spell? so if I were to attempt to lvl it up all the way what class should I use?
Its a Support TECH...
If you want to use its full potential, go AT...

[Stryker Diaz]

kk thnx just was kinda confused, thought since it affected the enemy that it might be considered attacking

[Para]

Until SEGA decides to dish us PSO like difficulty monsters... we ain't going nowhere with debuffs.

[The_Gio]

Myself being full blown support meaning I hardly attack,usually just debuff,buff and heal.Debuffs aren't the most crazy technics,but it helps.And if you solo,you should know this too,anything that makes them weaker and/or you stronger,helps the run go faster. If people think monsters die fast enough,then your probably doing a low level or weak mission, like white beast. Sure buffs give more damage output than the monsters being debuffed but it still makes a difference. Unless you only count difference as killing them in one hit or something

[Stryker Diaz]

I miss PSO... Debuffs were tons useful back then, even could use them on bosses too ><! but ya you got a good point Gio when I fly solo with my Mag the Debuffs help a ton, help conserve my ammo on rifle and bow

[Criss]

I find debuffs' best use to be for removing buffs from enemies. Other than that, they might have some use in very small parties or against very strong enemies, but that's about it. As was said, enemies die way too fast for debuffs to be worth casting, unless it's to quickly tag all nearby enemies for exp.

[Stryker Diaz]

idk about that.... I figure that in the next Expansion that they are going to include extremely difficult high level enemies that will give every class a run for their money. Debuffs+Buffs might be the only hope in that case for the newer players.

[Juza]

Debuffs are awesome, they allow my WT to tag everything before it dies in .035 seconds. :p

I find myself mostly using Zoldeel only, though. Zalure/Jellen don't seem to make that much of a difference; I do notice I take quite a bit less damage if I spew out Zoldeel.

[Magus_84]

I'm a Guntecher. I've removed Deband from my "main" palette, allowing me to fit all four of Shifta, Retier, Zodial and Giresta on one "buff" slot. Even my female Newman Fortetecher friend, using a De Colte Line, doesn't notice that much of a difference.

To compensate for this, I've put Jellen with a Resta Wand and paired it with my main Crossbow. This allows me to buff everyone with one palette slot, while still keeping Jellen around to take the edge off of the really huge hits.

Seems to be working well so far. Zalure and Zoldeel, I haven't found much use for yet.

[Niloklives]

I play in groups of 3 and most enemies die in seconds even large type lvl 140s

why debuff when by the time the tech is cast the enemy is dead?

[Shinko]

I love debuff. When im arcotecher i use debuffs more than anything. Hey it don't matter to me if everyone else think there useless. You shouldn't care either. if you like using them then use them.

[Niloklives]

the point is eveything does too fast for debuffs to make a difference.

though if we really got into this argument, we'd eventually land somewhere in "what's the point of techers?" land...its not a pretty place.

seriously though I'm glad no one I know uses debuffs. if I had the choice of doing 50-100 mor damage of seeing thousands more damage accrue in the short time the enemy is alive...I'm going with the xtra damage.

after buffs, the way things are now, a techer is more useful spamming attacks techs than trying to squeeze a little more damage out of someone else's PAs.

[stukasa]

Aside from tagging, debuffs are only useful in small parties where things *don't* die in 0.035 seconds. :p The best one is Jellen since there are actually some enemies that hit pretty hard, like buffed large monsters. I use Jellen on SEED Ardite, Gainozeros, Bil de Vear and a few others, but definitely not as often as I did pre-AoI.

I agree with others who said that buffs won't have much use until we get really strong monsters to fight.

[Broodstar1337]

Aside from tagging, debuffs are only useful in small parties where things *don't* die in 0.035 seconds. :p The best one is Jellen since there are actually some enemies that hit pretty hard, like buffed large monsters. I use Jellen on SEED Ardite, Gainozeros, Bil de Vear and a few others, but definitely not as often as I did pre-AoI.

I agree with others who said that buffs won't have much use until we get really strong monsters to fight.

We did once have strong monsters to fight. This was before the Moatoob nerf and back before we had Majarra and all that.

[Seority]

Whenever the monsters actually become difficult to defeat. Note: whenever.

[ThEoRy]

i love debuffs, at this point however they have become a situational luxury rather than the mandatory necessity they were in pso. As a Male Newman Techer I still find all of them useful in smaller parties or solo. In larger parties I still use the yellow a lot and red when I'm up close and personal. I cant wait for more difficult creatures to defeat.

[Shou]

Debuffs SUCK! No matter what.

I am a fully lved main Acrotecher will ALL capped PA for that class. They suck so bad that it is seriously laughable. They need to be way more powerful to be even usful in the most obscure situation.

they dont eventag better than other techs. They hit 6 enemies = gi techs, so why scratch an enemy when you can get them even closer to death with a gi tech

anyone who thinks they can be helpful in any situation is mistaken :(

So please SonicTeam, pimp my Debuffs! :(

[Stryker Diaz]

thanks thats a good point ^^ Im just asking why people think they are useless honestly I dont care if they tell me not to use them because I love them, they are just one of the spells I love from back in PSO xD

[Powder Keg]

The main reason they're not worth using is because they take up a pallette spot. If you could cast them quickly as you could in PSO, myself and others would use them a lot more often, I'm sure. By the time you switch your weapons and switch back, you could have done a lot more damage.

[autumn]

I like debuffs for tagging, and I like zoldeel for my evade doing more for me. That's about the long and short of it for me.

[Niloklives]

I'm with the "deal damage to tag" group...

if debuffs where like their PSO counterparts...where a lvl 30 debuff took the bite our of the nastiest enemies, someone could make a case for them.

back in the days of PSO, jellen was busted...even the mobs on ult went from doing 600 damage to 50-100 when paied with deband. add to the the fact that monsters would generally last a LITTLE longer back then, and debuffs had a use. but lets face it. the toughest single enemy out there right now is probably a svaltus or its brethren. a protranser and a EX freeze trap solve that problem.

now while its stuck there, a techer could A: cast zalur so that the FF does another 200 damage per hit with their respective PA or B: cast nosdiga and do 4-6k damage 2-3 times in the time it takes a FF to USE said PA. lets be real...the svaltus is going to fall faster if the techer is piling on extra damage. the time it took them to cast the debuff and switch rods, they could have done at least one casting of nosdiga and kille dthe enemy that much faster.

if debuffs worked on bosses, they'd have a use. that extra damage adds up when you're talking about a drawn out battle

but lets face it...a lvl 140 enemy can't usually live through one full combo of majarra...why bother toggling between slots for that? and if all you're doing is debuffing, you're mooching exp and taking up a slot in my party. I dont mean it to be rude, but you're not helping if all you're doing is debuffing. things die faster with a techer on the offensive than with a techer in the support role. duffs are great...keep those going...but debuffs dont serve a purpose in the current game.

[Magus_84]

Part of the reason debuffs were so good in PSO was that tech damage was so utterly, utterly horrible.

No, not the "baaw dis sux" 2k+ per hit damage that techers these days love to complain about. Of the five elements (Foie/Barta/Zonde/Grants/Megid), on any given enemy, two would be utterly useless (generally Megid and one "big three" element), two would do double digit damage to stuff with over 5k HP (generally Grants and another of the big three), and the enemy "weakness" would let you do a whopping 200-400 damage. Against something with, again, over 5k HP.

That's after having a max level tech, max MST and all the applicable tech boosts.

Not to mention the stuff like Chaos Bringers, which took 0 or double digit damage from every tech. And the damage cancel, which would often replace the damage of the Hunter/Ranger next to you with your 0s or double digits. On multiple enemies, if you're spamming RA- or GI- techs.

Percentage-based reductions against techs (EFR, etc) were the absolute worst idea they could ever have. The MST vs TP system is far more forgiving. For those of you who didn't play PSO, try playing around with the "Tech Damage Calculator", linked on the left hand side in the PSO section. It's really quite depressing.

When you look at it that way, your best option is obviously buffing and debuffing. However, on here, the situation's completely reversed. Attack techs do significant damage, debuff techs have far less range, far less of an effect (in % of stat lowered) and don't even affect every enemy they hit on the first cast. The fact that you have to sacrifice palette slot on one to use the other is the final deathblow.

[Sekani]

Debuffs suck at tagging (they frequently don't stick on the first cast), so they're not even good for that.

[amtalx]

I cant wait for more difficult creatures to defeat.

Well, you're gonna, haha. If the recent past has been any indication, this game will never get any harder than it is now.

[ThEoRy]

Well, you're gonna, haha. If the recent past has been any indication, this game will never get any harder than it is now.


If anything it will prolly get far easier first unfortunately. But a man can dream though.... One day there will be S3+ missions. And when there is, I'll be there, waiting with my debuffs. Among other stuff, and things...