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View Full Version : Where is PSU going?



amtalx
Jun 5, 2008, 01:38 PM
As a ground zero player, I've seen countless changes, updates, rebalances, and the like. PSU started out as a game that was definitely geared towards heavily dedicated players with lots of free time. Top tier items were incredibly difficult to acquire, several aspects of the game (read: grinding) were only for the rich, and even getting by on a day to day basis was hard on your meseta.

There is no doubt that there has been a paradigm shift, particularly since the expansion. Meseta is a everywhere, a gross majority of items are much easier to obtain, and experience multipliers have become the norm. Certainly a far cry from being the talk of the town for even having a single S-rank.

That being said, where do you think PSU is headed? Its plainly obvious that PSU is taking a turn towards more casual playing. Many of the casual players who used to complain about unobtainable items and time consuming level requirements are very happy with the changes, while the more dedicated players have begun to complain about a lack of difficulty and end game content.

Personally, I am one of the people complaining that things have gotten too easy and there is nothing to do. My most recent break from the game has been the longest since I began playing. There simply no end game content in PSU. I can only hope that ST will try to balance out the content intended for casual vs. more hardcore players. Otherwise, I think my nerly decade long (OMG that’s lame) affair with PS may be coming to a permanent end.

Ezodagrom
Jun 5, 2008, 01:47 PM
I agree with you. I think one way that would make things more interesting would be rebalancing all missions (v1 and aoi). In the end, S rank missions would be for players that want things easier, with lvl 100+ monsters, and would be like many of the current v1 S2 missions (easily soloable). The S2 missions would have lvl 150+ monsters, they would be faster (like before all the rebalancing/converting to easy mode), and have at least twice the monsters current missions have.

Iduno
Jun 5, 2008, 01:50 PM
They're going more casual then nintendo lol

There are some vaguely challenging missions but all the casuals flood to white beast or go spam on colony 4th floor and the hardcore are all in locked partys (or can't be arsed to lock and boot on sight) hunting junk so unless you wan't to play an online game in singleplayer there really is no challenge

Also the defiled their roots with dark falz (yes I KNOW hes different in each game but a RESKIN is just ridiculous

cheapgunner
Jun 5, 2008, 01:53 PM
One thing I thought they messed up was giving flinch to most of our pa's. The game has gotten to the point where anything and everything can't fight back at all. It seems like ST has ran out of ideas and are stalling the new content as much as possible. If they took away flinch from everything but rifles and bows, rebalanced all the v1 missions and sped up the updates, the game would actually be quite amazing.

MightierToaster
Jun 5, 2008, 02:03 PM
I might not be a vet member on this site, but I am a vet member of the PSU community. I was playing the game back in the beta days, and then moved on too the full game day one. I was there and logged in around 64 hours, and quit days after the Firebreak ended. I was a level 28 at the time with my best weapons being Jitseens costing around 200,000 a piece. (Granted I played very lax, but did play.) So I signed back up after 8 months to find out that level 50 is no longer coveted, and to have 500,000 is no longer a lot of meseta, and that my Jitseens are now worth maybe 20,000. So I myself have seen the inflation, and other things taking a turn for the worse. Not to mention I went from a level 28 in 64 hours to a level 65 in just 62 hours. Something just does not seem right there, and now I have close to 7 mil, S ranks, and the best A ranks.

I plan to quit for good after the final achievement is realized, after that there really is no point.

Iduno
Jun 5, 2008, 02:04 PM
We also need stronger enemies with new tricks

I think in PSO Episode 2 there were some invisible shinowas which were pretty cool

The enemys here seem like a step back in comparison to pso, remember savage wolves (think thats what they were called) circleing round you and attacking from behind, or those weird monsters in the caves that joined together?

Also (this may have been because I was offline solo for all of it and I was younger) PSO's bosses were harder, remember olga flow and dark falz? I remember De Roll Le seemed to put up more of a fight then in PSU and Vol Opt was pretty tricky too if I remember right.

Darkhaven
Jun 5, 2008, 02:04 PM
The changes taking place are very welcome. PSU is one of the very few casual RPGs. It's about time people who work and go to school at the same time can get ahead in a game. I believe any player who really feel like the game is just too easy can simply go to a more life consuming game. That's not an insult to anyone. I have friends who are still in high school who play a lot because they don't have to work (and it's summer vacation). They enjoy countless hours of play and might agree with the topic creator. As for me, these changes are needed. PSO was easier than PSU v1 (Well, some EP 2 missions were suicidal).

Treize K
Jun 5, 2008, 02:06 PM
PSU is noob friendly now

Ezodagrom
Jun 5, 2008, 02:11 PM
The changes taking place are very welcome. PSU is one of the very few casual RPGs. It's about time people who work and go to school at the same time can get ahead in a game. I believe any player who really feel like the game is just too easy can simply go to a more life consuming game. That's not an insult to anyone. I have friends who are still in high school who play a lot because they don't have to work (and it's summer vacation). They enjoy countless hours of play and might agree with the topic creator. As for me, these changes are needed. PSO was easier than PSU v1 (Well, some EP 2 mission were suicidal).

Like I said before, PSU should have easy missions (S missions with monsters between lvl 100 and 150), for those that like to solo or easy missions, and for the casual players, but should also have hard missions for the ones that want a challenge (S2 missions with lvl 150+ monsters, and 2x to 4x more monsters, with a speed boost, and also stronger bosses).

What's more annoying is the old version 1 missions, there are a few with monsters below lvl 100, so there's no good drops there and monsters are 40 to 50 lvls below the current lvl cap (130)...

Iduno
Jun 5, 2008, 02:16 PM
The changes taking place are very welcome. PSU is one of the very few casual RPGs. It's about time people who work and go to school at the same time can get ahead in a game. I believe any player who really feel like the game is just too easy can simply go to a more life consuming game. That's not an insult to anyone. I have friends who are still in high school who play a lot because they don't have to work (and it's summer vacation). They enjoy countless hours of play and might agree with the topic creator. As for me, these changes are needed. PSO was easier than PSU v1 (Well, some EP 2 missions were suicidal).

Why were these "needed" though if you don't have time to level you should just play low level easy missions but now Segac has made it so a high level is easy to obtain and so are the missions

(Also if I managed to solo though all of PSO ep 1&2 all the way up to olga flow's 2nd form it couldn't have been that hard for a party to do it with acess to better weapons and stuff from trading as well so I think "suicidel" is a huge overstatement)

darkante
Jun 5, 2008, 02:19 PM
What's more annoying is the old version 1 missions, there are a few with monsters below lvl 100, so there's no good drops there and monsters are 40 to 50 lvls below the current lvl cap (130)...

Yeah, they should really fix so any decent drops there (rares that is common in AoI S could be common in V1 S2 IMO) so there is a actual reason to do them except for variety.
Currently, those mission aren´t even worth running cause the rewards is that out of C difficulty...just crap. Might as well remove them. >.>

TakNatali
Jun 5, 2008, 02:20 PM
The changes taking place are very welcome. PSU is one of the very few casual RPGs. It's about time people who work and go to school at the same time can get ahead in a game. I believe any player who really feel like the game is just too easy can simply go to a more life consuming game. That's not an insult to anyone. I have friends who are still in high school who play a lot because they don't have to work (and it's summer vacation). They enjoy countless hours of play and might agree with the topic creator. As for me, these changes are needed. PSO was easier than PSU v1 (Well, some EP 2 missions were suicidal).

Word.

Kanore
Jun 5, 2008, 02:22 PM
PSU never ever felt harder than PSO.

Ult on PSO was incredible, even still on the v3 games, on terms of difficulty. You knew that if you screwed up once, you were going to die.

On PSU, if you're fighting higher level enemies, not only do you know that they're higher level for sure, but you can still level elsewhere. And the only thing more difficult to do if you're not in a party is quickly kill a monster. Nothing but buffed monsters will be able to kill you even if you're paying even the slightest of attention - hell, only fully buffed monsters are the annoyance and they're rare.

PSU's always been on the border of 'casual' and 'hardcore.' On one hand, it's incredibly easy and casual depending on your class, level, and whatever mission you're running. On the other hand, it's 'hardcore' because it takes forever to get to the next level aside from events so you're stuck running the same mission over and over.

It's pretty great that PA's are being rebalanced; PA's and the ways that they are used is the most unique aspect of the game and leveling them up in a boring, 'afk' fashion detracted from exploiting that uniqueness.

Where is PSU going? Nowhere. From the beginning, people looked at the game and saw potential. Many were disappointed enough to leave immediately and forever. I personally think that it hasn't reached that potential, especially with the lack of population (and especially on the Western PC/PS2 servers). PSU needs something to breathe life back into it, and the first step is re-population, again, especially on PC/PS2. Because without a population, there is very little 'MM' in 'MMORPG.'

Ffuzzy-Logik
Jun 5, 2008, 02:25 PM
Personally, I feel all these changes were for the better. Most things before AoI simply were not fun, because they took too much time or were unnecessarily frustrating (not challenging, PSU has never been difficult).

I'd much rather be able to duo Desert Terror S2 in 20 minutes than spend over 40 minutes trudging through it with a full party (and practically zero chance of any worthwhile items); that just wasn't fun at all.

I understand the desire for more "hardcore" gameplay in PSU, but the game itself really doesn't lend itself to such gameplay.


Oh, and given how much people like to talk about EZ MOED, it never ceases to amaze me how many people still suck at the game.

Ezodagrom
Jun 5, 2008, 02:30 PM
Many of the changes were just too much. I understand things being easier, but not so easy that many of the missions can be soloed in 20 - 30 mins (or even less) with a newman fighter ._.

Kinako78
Jun 5, 2008, 02:35 PM
PSU is noob friendly now

No, PSU is people-who-don't-like-to-play-24/7 friendly now.

Ffuzzy-Logik
Jun 5, 2008, 02:35 PM
If you want it to take longer, then solo it with a Cast fT. Problem solved.
Or use C-rank weapons with 50% wrong element.
Missions can be as difficult as you want them to be.

lolURISH
Jun 5, 2008, 02:38 PM
In my opinion (remember: I haven't actually put too much effort in towards the game since I leave for Army Basic Training soon, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.) casual gaming is what PSO/U has always been, there's never been a real point where there were 3-6 hour missions like in FFXI or WoW. So I believe that may be what PSU needs. Keep the casualness and maybe even mix in some pvp as well just to keep with tradition, but maybe take a road that both WoW and FFXI have taken by creating quests that lead to like a different dimension, where top tier items are found.

In Final Fantasy its Dynamis, or Apollyon...or Sky......or Sea....or Moon, etc; and in WoW they have Raids.(I never got too into world of warcraft, just wasn't a fan of the childish graphics.)
I think the concept that FF had with Dynamis would transpose greatly into PSU. Who wouldn't want to go to a dreamworld where The outcome of a War turned out differently and now there's enemies in the towns that everyone has come to grow and love.

I don't know about you but I wouldnt mind having to fight level 150 pannons on the first floor of the guardians colony then by the time you get to the 5th your fighting level 180 Dulk Fakis or maybe even a new Boss created soully for that area(Ha! like ST would do that)

I don't know...maybe it's just wishful thinking on my behalf but I think PSU would rope alot more than just the die hards and a few stragglers if they were to pump up the end game content.

VivAviva
Jun 5, 2008, 02:42 PM
I haven't been playing since the begining but i have been playing since a few weeks before 1up cup. And even in this short amount of time i have noticed that everything (well most everything) has gotten easier. Anyone with a shop can make a mil in minutes now and NOTHING is worth anything. And i was excited about this PA rebalance at first until i realized that all of my techs that i have take this long to get up to at least 21 (which isnt great but i mean its ALL my techs and took some time) and now in less than half the time that took me everyone will have decent techs/bullets/skills and IMO that is something that should be worked for. I understand that they wanted to make the game easier to pick up and just start but they made it TOO easy i think...i mean i still love the game or i wouldnt play but i think a better way to get a bigger player base would have been to re-release PSU with AOI as a stand alone for the xbox when the expansion came out.

anyways i am done with my rant ... all in all I think PSU is being entirely too dumbed down

Ryudo
Jun 5, 2008, 02:44 PM
It's going to get harder, then the people who bitch about it being too easy will bitch about it being too hard, and threaten to quit until it's made easy again, because that's the kind of community we have

Iduno
Jun 5, 2008, 02:48 PM
In my opinion (remember: I haven't actually put too much effort in towards the game since I leave for Army Basic Training soon, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.) casual gaming is what PSO/U has always been, there's never been a real point where there were 3-6 hour missions like in FFXI or WoW. So I believe that may be what PSU needs. Keep the casualness and maybe even mix in some pvp as well just to keep with tradition, but maybe take a road that both WoW and FFXI have taken by creating quests that lead to like a different dimension, where top tier items are found.

In Final Fantasy its Dynamis, or Apollyon...or Sky......or Sea....or Moon, etc; and in WoW they have Raids.(I never got too into world of warcraft, just wasn't a fan of the childish graphics.)
I think the concept that FF had with Dynamis would transpose greatly into PSU. Who wouldn't want to go to a dreamworld where The outcome of a War turned out differently and now there's enemies in the towns that everyone has come to grow and love.

I don't know about you but I wouldnt mind having to fight level 150 pannons on the first floor of the guardians colony then by the time you get to the 5th your fighting level 180 Dulk Fakis or maybe even a new Boss created soully for that area(Ha! like ST would do that)

I don't know...maybe it's just wishful thinking on my behalf but I think PSU would rope alot more than just the die hards and a few stragglers if they were to pump up the end game content.

Hurry up and become a sega employee already lol, the type of mission you just described is exactly what we need except maybe give the pannons (im assuming you mean bel pannons btw) their speed boost back as well

After that all we would need would be some kind of conscription system to grab people from white beast to go there (maybe using a cage with fake "rarz" as bait or something which then lets you force them into one non-WB mission for their freedom)

Kylie
Jun 5, 2008, 02:50 PM
There are pros and cons of the game being more casual. That said, I do think the game was better in the beginning or early days, and I think it's in a decline now. It's getting less and less fun. Some of that is natural after playing a game for so long, but it also has to do with the direction of the game. So I agree with the OP to some extent.

Tsujikiri
Jun 5, 2008, 02:52 PM
I agree with you. I think one way that would make things more interesting would be rebalancing all missions (v1 and aoi). In the end, S rank missions would be for players that want things easier, with lvl 100+ monsters, and would be like many of the current v1 S2 missions (easily soloable). The S2 missions would have lvl 150+ monsters, they would be faster (like before all the rebalancing/converting to easy mode), and have at least twice the monsters current missions have.



I remember a time when i first tried an s rank and couldn't out run a Go Vahra

darkante
Jun 5, 2008, 02:53 PM
If you want it to take longer, then solo it with a Cast fT. Problem solved.
Or use C-rank weapons with 50% wrong element.
Missions can be as difficult as you want them to be.

I prefer this way..i currently want to level rifle bullets so guess what i do?
I go to mr draggy on PO S2 and just use the bullet i want, with the crappiest rifle ever on my GT doing everything i can to lower my ATT, then i proceed to try to only hit the tail.
Which make me do around 60 dmg. :P
I only brought rifles for the whole mission so no cheap Giresta healing, i can only use the thing s i got.

Then we have a fun very long drawn fight. =)

Kinako78
Jun 5, 2008, 02:56 PM
That reminds me of what I did in my PSO days: sometimes I'd do a run and use only the items/weapons/armor I got from enemies or found in boxes. Sometimes I'd go forever without armor. XD

Iduno
Jun 5, 2008, 02:57 PM
I prefer this way..i currently want to level rifle bullets so guess what i do?
I go to mr draggy on PO S2 and just use the bullet i want, with the crappiest rifle ever on my GT doing everything i can to lower my ATT, then i proceed to try to only hit the tail.
Which make me do around 60 dmg. :P
I only brought rifles for the whole mission so no cheap Giresta healing, i can only use the thing s i got.

Then we have a fun very long drawn fight. =)

That sounds more time consuming then difficult though lol since with guns you can spend most of the time at range so you can dodge everything but maybe the fireball from the air with ease

RemiusTA
Jun 5, 2008, 02:59 PM
As a ground zero player, I've seen countless changes, updates, rebalances, and the like. PSU started out as a game that was definitely geared towards heavily dedicated players with lots of free time. Top tier items were incredibly difficult to acquire, several aspects of the game (read: grinding) were only for the rich, and even getting by on a day to day basis was hard on your meseta.

There is no doubt that there has been a paradigm shift, particularly since the expansion. Meseta is a everywhere, a gross majority of items are much easier to obtain, and experience multipliers have become the norm. Certainly a far cry from being the talk of the town for even having a single S-rank.

That being said, where do you think PSU is headed? Its plainly obvious that PSU is taking a turn towards more casual playing. Many of the casual players who used to complain about unobtainable items and time consuming level requirements are very happy with the changes, while the more dedicated players have begun to complain about a lack of difficulty and end game content.

Personally, I am one of the people complaining that things have gotten too easy and there is nothing to do. My most recent break from the game has been the longest since I began playing. There simply no end game content in PSU. I can only hope that ST will try to balance out the content intended for casual vs. more hardcore players. Otherwise, I think my nerly decade long (OMG that’s lame) affair with PS may be coming to a permanent end.


Games for people with nothing to do and too much free time are proven the worst games in existance.

YOU may want this game to be a grindfest of epic proportions, but for normal people, i would rather play my fill for a day and then leave it alone, and still get somewhere by the end of the week.

YOU may want a "fill" to be 10 hours a day. But the rest of us have lives.

That said, they DO need to fix the difficulty curve, but i find that Soloing the missions usually gives me all the difficulty i need and more. I feel right at home like on PSO when i solo missions. PSO was no harder in large parties -- the enemies died just as fast, if not faster, and there was absolutely no balance in that game at all.

So i dont know what turns you off about PSU.



Edit: and what do you think this is, anyway? Hardcore gamers make up such a small percentage of the whole that they arent worth catering too, espically when their standards result in an incredibly difficult, boring and unfair grindfest that nobody except themselves want to play.

I dont blame ST for making the game easier, because a HARDER game does not make a BETTER game. The requirements for obtaining the highest items are still as hard to get as ever. The population has simply grown since "ground zero" -- there is more in circulation than before.



Edit: most of it though is the fault of Sega, since they suck at absolutely everything they do. They decided to play the dragg game with PSU, and so there are at least dozens of S rank weapons that we havent even seen yet. Im most likely not going to stick around for the whole of PSU's lifetime, since Sega really doesnt care about being good game developers anymore. I refuse to pay $10 just to get lucky and maybe get a new story mission or an event, or maybe a stage that was already on the disc or an item already available on Offline mode.


But you ARE correct.

SEGA has taken a horrible route with this game. It started off good, but it seems AotI was just another way for them to capitalize on being lazy fucking losers, just like with their sonic games. "Add a bunch of stuff to the game and drag it out as long as you can so we dont have to do anymore until the end." They wont release the story missions quick enough for anyone to care, they refuse to balance out the missions to stop the players from crowding a single spot, and they refuse to devote any time to the problems they cause, specifically with the Billing servers and such. ( A real team would have had that fixed in 4 days TOPS.)

PSU IS declining, but its not the games fault, its SEGA's fault. Take it up with them. Not the casual players.




PSU is a Free to Play MMO with a monthly price tag on it. Fact. Nobody should have to pay for SEGA's shit fuck service, lazyness and mediocrity .

steely
Jun 5, 2008, 02:59 PM
i think that i might be one of the very few peaple that liked the way that the game used to be when it first came out. no matter how easy the game gets though i will probobly keep playin until the servers rot.....

darkante
Jun 5, 2008, 03:00 PM
That sounds more time consuming then difficult though lol since with guns you can spend most of the time at range so you can dodge everything but maybe the fireball from the air with ease

Actually i try every method i can to fill my rifle bullet with exp.
And yes, it´s not really hard anyway doing this.
Only thing that might actually get you is the home-seeking fireball lol.
I can´t really tell when he uses it so i just have to take the hit.

amtalx
Jun 5, 2008, 03:01 PM
I'm very surprised to see the number of people disappointed with the "casual" changes. Someone along the line said that ST did indeed need to make changes, they just took it too far. I really agree with that. At the beginning, getting ANY S rank board was a significant achievement. Remember when a 2-Headed Ragnus would turn heads?

Anyway, ST just went overboard with the changes. Yes, the drop rates needed to be adjusted. Yes, the PAs needed to be rebalanced (except Skills). The problem is that they made the handful of released S ranks so easy to obtain that there is very little to do after logging more than a few hundred hours, and PAs will likely be the same. The acceleration, and pacing to a non-existent endgame is way off. Why am I going to pay for a game, its expansion pack, and a $10/mo. fee when it has WAY less content and longevity than something like Oblivion which is a single player game. Let's be honest here. Oblivion has more hours of quality content than a game that has thousands of players, seasonal events/lobbies, and receives content updates every month (or so I've heard). Something is wrong with this picture.

unicorn
Jun 5, 2008, 03:04 PM
If PSU gets harder all its going to attract is losers who live in basements and kids that don't go to school.

I think that PSU should be noob friendly. Thats the only thing working for it right about now, since it wouldn't be appealing to newbies at all if it were difficult. And you know what? I wouldn't play it if it was incredibly hard. I have a life.

During PSU v.1 I was still in HS, and I didn't do a lot of my homework anyway so I was able to invest hours lvling. Now that I'm a college student and I work more, I barely have time to play. Have some symphathy to those kids in highschool AP classes and older peeps w/ lives! =3

I do think PSU needs more things to do though. It doesn't have as much diversity as PSO had. And although I'm against PvP, maybe it might be for the best for the developers to do something *new*. Maybe make some different kind of missions. Actually, why does everything have to be a mission anyway? I'm sure as hell know WoW, Cabal, Vanguard, etc don't have "missions". -_-;

Skyly
Jun 5, 2008, 03:05 PM
PSU is already life consuming.

Kinako78
Jun 5, 2008, 03:06 PM
YOU may want a "fill" to be 10 hours a day. But the rest of us have lives.


My point exactly. Some (read: most) of us don't like to play 24/7. We like/have to do other things with our time.

BIGGIEstyle
Jun 5, 2008, 03:14 PM
I think everyone has very valid points. I remember back before 1-Up Cup that I ran into people who were Level 65 and thought "Wow. You're really high level." I'm sure people can laugh about that but it's true.

Now in the recent months even without events like MAG where you can create a new character and power them to 130, you can just as easily get a character well into the 70's by running White Beast over and over.

I remember when gaining a new part of your combo on a PA was exciting, or gaining the long awaited level on your Technics was awesome, but I equally know what people are complaining about when they can play for a month and never see their skill level.

I think that have to go out of your way to level your PA's (bullets/buffs/technics) with ridiculous training methods is stupid. Being booted from a party because you're an AT with buffs under Lv30 is absurd!

So while I agree that this game has never come close to the difficulty presented in the endgame of PSO, some of these changes aren't really for the worse.

I agree that It's lame that I've been playing for over a year now (nothing compared to you vets out there) and there are people who have played for a month with higher level characters than mine.

I agree that in a few weeks that even though I've been playing longer these same people will have better PAs than I do.

I agree that it sucks that I remember fighting my way towards that elusive S Rank and finding a Sweet Death on my figunner. I remember finding the 5th board months later and finally having one succeed with the crappy synth rates as they were, and now I can just buy one for a completely nerfed price and save myself the trouble. Back in the day- probably more so before I even started- there was none of this "synth or not synth" mentality. You did it because you [B]HAD TO, because back then the people that had the S Rank gear kept it because of how long it took to find and how hard it was to synth.

I agree that new player to this game are born into it with a silver spoon in their mouth and 5 more waiting in case they drop it, but we have to deal with it. I myself am a fairly casual player but I like a challenge every now and then and this game has never really given it to me.

While Segac gets drop-kicked in the face daily about all the gripes about errors and general mishaps, they at least take in consideration what their players are complaining about.

People complained that synthing was too hard. Problem solved.
People complained that it was too hard to level. Problem solved.
People complained that their class wasn't how they wanted it. Mostly problem solved.
and People surely complained that PAs leveled to slow, so now they're fixing that.

This game is run by a company who gives to the whiners- which is both good and bad sometimes. I'm of the mentality that if you don't like how your game plays then find another one. I've played a bit of FFXI, WoW, Hellgate London, and Everquest and while people herald them as better games with better support I still prefer PSU. Some others may not think the same as I do, but that's how life is.

I'm all for the rebalance so I can finally start my gunner character without the mind-numbing leveling of bullet PAs. Call my a noob for it all you like, but that's my way of playing.

CelestialBlade
Jun 5, 2008, 03:15 PM
I want to talk about that "no endgame content" for a bit.

My problem with PSU, and the reason I'm currently inactive, is the fact that you can accomplish everything your class can do too quickly. I personally like games where most stuff is pretty well attainable, but the REALLY special stuff is still stuff that maybe 1/1000 people will get. Just so there's always something to strive for. Getting every 11* weapon in this game is not terribly hard anymore, and capping PAs is going to be far easier come tomorrow. I don't so much have a problem with those tasks becoming easier, what bugs me is that there's nothing after that. There are no rare items anymore.

Kylie
Jun 5, 2008, 03:16 PM
Just to clarify, the game at the start wasn't perfect, and I don't want PSU to be too time consuming either. However, they did overdo things. It'd be nice to have things in the middle, rather than drastically "fixed."


I'm very surprised to see the number of people disappointed with the "casual" changes. Someone along the line said that ST did indeed need to make changes, they just took it too far. I really agree with that. At the beginning, getting ANY S rank board was a significant achievement. Remember when a 2-Headed Ragnus would turn heads?

Anyway, ST just went overboard with the changes. Yes, the drop rates needed to be adjusted. Yes, the PAs needed to be rebalanced (except Skills). The problem is that they made the handful of released S ranks so easy to obtain that there is very little to do after logging more than a few hundred hours, and PAs will likely be the same. The acceleration, and pacing to a non-existent endgame is way off. Why am I going to pay for a game, its expansion pack, and a $10/mo. fee when it has WAY less content and longevity than something like Oblivion which is a single player game. Let's be honest here. Oblivion has more hours of quality content than a game that has thousands of players, seasonal events/lobbies, and receives content updates every month (or so I've heard). Something is wrong with this picture.
This.

RemiusTA
Jun 5, 2008, 03:19 PM
And im just going to add this to what i said before.



PSU has just as much variety, if not MORE than PSO did. It has more weapons, stages, customizations, more everything than PSO did. However, SEGA refuses to allow it to show, because they are too strung up on money and the subscription service to let the game breathe how it should.

Level caps, slowly releasing the storymissions (that are already completed), everything wrong with this game is the product of sheer LAZINESS.

One could suggest that they are holding off on all of this for a reason, that they are trying to coordinate the level cap and missions with the Events of the game. I venture to say that some of the holding back is legit, but im not entirely sure if SEGA has the power to create missions from scratch using the server code. (I would guess that they do, since they can make gameplay-altering changes on the PS2 without a new disc.)


But yeah, this is all SEGA we are dealing with. They are borderlined EA Games right now, and it isnt getting any better. Ever.

Rayokarna
Jun 5, 2008, 03:20 PM
My point exactly. Some (read: most) of us don't like to play 24/7. We like/have to do other things with our time.


There is a difference between making things harder and playing 24/7. This game is dead easy now reguardless on how you put it, with only one rare which is godly hard to get while being available at one time. Alot of use are stuck at level 130(Without trying mind you) while maxed out several classes with only thing to do is leveling PAs, which is gonna be easier now anyway.

The game can still be easy and you can play 24/7...

Dragwind
Jun 5, 2008, 03:22 PM
I can still remember the lolbasic classes being all we could play, and OMG when 7*'s came out. I used to play on a friends account. He would let me use it to try out the game, and I ended up playing it more than him. I bought my own account shortly before the other classes came out.

I can remember how long it took to do a mission, how hard it was to even have a pallete of A ranks, etc. Working full time and going to school caused me to play the game less and less, after seeing how much of a grind it was, and how it was interfering with "life."

With each update that made the game easier, I thought I was playing more, but I realized I was just able to accomplish more within my given free time. It was very nice, and in turn caused me to play a bit more as well.

As for the direction, it certainly seems to be going in the casual direction, no doubt about that. I do think though that if they want to hold customers instead of having them become bored, they need to unlock content a bit faster, become more organized on updates, instead of constant delays, and they need to fix the "hotspot" problem. Supposedly we were supposed to have an on-site lobby population finder of some sort, that needs to happen soon.

We all know "hotspots" seem to suck a lot of fun out of the game for new players, as well as people who don't have friends to run missions with elsewhere.

As for endgame equipment, I also agree we do need a bit more of that to help keep some people going. We do need a few of those unbelievably rare items that if you do find one, you'll be one of the few. We just don't need TOO many of those to the point where we are limited.

darkante
Jun 5, 2008, 03:23 PM
I think everyone has very valid points. I remember back before 1-Up Cup that I ran into people who were Level 65 and thought "Wow. You're really high level." I'm sure people can laugh about that but it's true.

Now in the recent months even without events like MAG where you can create a new character and power them to 130, you can just as easily get a character well into the 70's by running White Beast over and over.

I remember when gaining a new part of your combo on a PA was exciting, or gaining the long awaited level on your Technics was awesome, but I equally know what people are complaining about when they can play for a month and never see their skill level.

I think that have to go out of your way to level your PA's (bullets/buffs/technics) with ridiculous training methods is stupid. Being booted from a party because you're an AT with buffs under Lv30 is absurd!

So while I agree that this game has never come close to the difficulty presented in the endgame of PSO, some of these changes aren't really for the worse.

I agree that It's lame that I've been playing for over a year now (nothing compared to you vets out there) and there are people who have played for a month with higher level characters than mine.

I agree that in a few weeks that even though I've been playing longer these same people will have better PAs than I do.

I agree that it sucks that I remember fighting my way towards that elusive S Rank and finding a Sweet Death on my figunner. I remember finding the 5th board months later and finally having one succeed with the crappy synth rates as they were, and now I can just buy one for a completely nerfed price and save myself the trouble. Back in the day- probably more so before I even started- there was none of this "synth or not synth" mentality. You did it because you [B]HAD TO, because back then the people that had the S Rank gear kept it because of how long it took to find and how hard it was to synth.

I agree that new player to this game are born into it with a silver spoon in their mouth and 5 more waiting in case they drop it, but we have to deal with it. I myself am a fairly casual player but I like a challenge every now and then and this game has never really given it to me.

While Segac gets drop-kicked in the face daily about all the gripes about errors and general mishaps, they at least take in consideration what their players are complaining about.

People complained that synthing was too hard. Problem solved.
People complained that it was too hard to level. Problem solved.
People complained that their class wasn't how they wanted it. Mostly problem solved.
and People surely complained that PAs leveled to slow, so now they're fixing that.

This game is run by a company who gives to the whiners- which is both good and bad sometimes. I'm of the mentality that if you don't like how your game plays then find another one. I've played a bit of FFXI, WoW, Hellgate London, and Everquest and while people herald them as better games with better support I still prefer PSU. Some others may not think the same as I do, but that's how life is.

I'm all for the rebalance so I can finally start my gunner character without the mind-numbing leveling of bullet PAs. Call my a noob for it all you like, but that's my way of playing.

The thing is..why people call the game too easy is because they never feel like challenging themselves. Because if Sega isn´t gonna fix it, you just have to do your own "fix". =P

amtalx
Jun 5, 2008, 03:23 PM
Games for people with nothing to do and too much free time are proven the worst games in existance.

I can see how a game designed with an aim no greater than to take up time would be bad; however, that doesn’t mean that any game you can dump hours into is bad by default.


YOU may want this game to be a grindfest of epic proportions, but for normal people, i would rather play my fill for a day and then leave it alone, and still get somewhere by the end of the week.

YOU may want a "fill" to be 10 hours a day. But the rest of us have lives.

The "I have a life" argument always fails, and this instance is no exception. I have a 40 hr/wk job and friends just like everyone else. :D

I DON’T want this game to be a grind. My complaint is more that the pacing is all wrong. ST has done a lot to make the game feel like less of a grind by allowing us to reap rewards and milestones (character/PA levels, S ranks, etc.) at a faster rate than your average normal ORPG, which I think is great. That’s why I liked PSO. However, while racing everyone to the endgame isn’t a sin on its own, not giving players anything to do when they reach that point is. I don’t care how fast my character or skills level, just give me something to do when they reach their endpoint.


That said, they DO need to fix the difficulty curve, but i find that Soloing the missions usually gives me all the difficulty i need and more. I feel right at home like on PSO when i solo missions. PSO was no harder in large parties -- the enemies died just as fast, if not faster, and there was absolutely no balance in that game at all.

So i dont know what turns you off about PSU.

Simple, I don’t pay $10/mo. to play by myself. When I want to mess around on my own, I’ll work on the single player campaign. Having to nerf your abilities (reducing the number of players, playing a known weak race/class combination, etc.) is just an indirect admission that the game design is flawed.



Edit: and what do you think this is, anyway? Hardcore gamers make up such a small percentage of the whole that they arent worth catering too, espically when their standards result in an incredibly difficult, boring and unfair grindfest that nobody except themselves want to play.

I dont blame ST for making the game easier, because a HARDER game does not make a BETTER game. The requirements for obtaining the highest items are still as hard to get as ever. The population has simply grown since "ground zero" -- there is more in circulation than before.

Apparently there are enough “hardcore” players that many people share the same concerns that I do. =/ While the rest of your statement was well put, “The requirements for obtaining the highest items are still as hard to get as ever.” is wrong and you know it. ST went out of their way to improve drop rates on both AoI and PSUv1 missions. There were probably more Rattlesnakes and Shigga Barets found in the first 2-3 months following the PSUv1 drop rate change than the entire previous period under the original drop rates. The population during peak times has also shrunk since I first began playing, so it has nothing to do with population.

RemiusTA
Jun 5, 2008, 03:27 PM
In all truth, they just need to balance the missions.

The MAIN, MAIN, MAIN problem with PSU's difficulty is the amount of players allowed to join, and the fact that the developers REFUSE to make the difficulty of the enemies rise/fall depending on the number of players in a mission.

If you have 6 people at level 130 with near maxed PAs that do broken damage, there is no reason the boss of that stage should still have the same HP it has when you face it solo.

6 people should = at LEAST 400% more HP and attack power.



Edit: and i see where you are coming from now, and i guess i agree on most of it. Even for casual players there is a sense of accomplishment once you FINALLY gather all the materials for that S rank and synth it.

SEGA needs to :

1) Balance the mission rewards
2) Make chained missions give more exp/meseta than just warping and doing the mission
3) Balance the difficulty of the mission based on the amount of players
4) Go beyond the S2 rank
5) FOR GODS SAKE MAKE THE BOSSES HARDER. They are ALL epic bosses (save for the flying bastard) and should do epic damage and have enough HP to at LEAST allow the BGM to loop.
6) Adjust drop rates for the highest * weapons


And for Balance, since they already screwed it up with Exact Attack:

1) Allow some kind of Exact Attack for Technics
2) Allow some kind of Exact Attack for Bullets (It would be great if multiple target enemies had weakspots, like shooting a flying enemy in the wing or a Vahara in the head does critical damage
3) Adjust the HP of the enemies

darkante
Jun 5, 2008, 03:30 PM
In all truth, they just need to balance the missions.

The MAIN, MAIN, MAIN problem with PSU's difficulty is the amount of players allowed to join, and the fact that the developers REFUSE to make the difficulty of the enemies rise/fall depending on the number of players in a mission.

If you have 6 people at level 130 with near maxed PAs that do broken damage, there is no reason the boss of that stage should still have the same HP it has when you face it solo.

6 people should = at LEAST 400% more HP and attack power.

Indeed, this feature would make it alot more fun with more players.
But Sega is too retarded for this idea. :(

amtalx
Jun 5, 2008, 03:36 PM
In all truth, they just need to balance the missions.

The MAIN, MAIN, MAIN problem with PSU's difficulty is the amount of players allowed to join, and the fact that the developers REFUSE to make the difficulty of the enemies rise/fall depending on the number of players in a mission.

If you have 6 people at level 130 with near maxed PAs that do broken damage, there is no reason the boss of that stage should still have the same HP it has when you face it solo.

6 people should = at LEAST 400% more HP and attack power.

I think this is a fantastic idea. It worked in Diablo II, there is no reason it can't work here as well. It allows the soloers to continue unhindered, while still alowing players that prefer to run in groups the luxury of running a mission without mindlessly pressing the X Button and watching EXP FULL pop up. I miss the days where I actually had to watch my ass, even as a capped player.

Does anyone else remember running SEED Awakened S2 the day it was released and getting totally demoralized? As odd as it sounds, that was fun, haha. It gave me something to work towards.

Aumi
Jun 5, 2008, 03:38 PM
Yeah, the game should be balanced, so that it's good for both hardcores and casuals, but I'd also say that gameplay-wise the game's just too monotonous. It's just spamming the same attacks over and over with barely any tactics or variety. If you ask me, then there are 4 things this game particularly needs: 1. Some sort of combo-linking system. 2. Dodge moves and jumping. 3. More variety in missions, something special, some things you need to do which make each mission outstanding. 4. LESS RESKINS!!!

CelestialBlade
Jun 5, 2008, 03:38 PM
Here's an easy solution to endgame content: More freaking weapons. I hate using PSO to PSU comparisons, but PSO is a good example of this. There's tons upon tons of rare weapons in PSO you could spend your time hunting, some of them very rare and others not so rare. The weapon selection in PSU is horrible, and there's nothing that makes each weapon stand out other than a difference in ATP or TP. That's boring. It also makes finding S-ranks less satisfying because they really don't do anything.

They also need to spread out the special weapon designs a little better. I'm getting pretty tired of seeing seven thousand special Rods, exclusive to one friggin' class, and next to nothing for everything else. That won't keep many players continually motivated.

RemiusTA
Jun 5, 2008, 03:40 PM
Guys, i have an amazing idea.

Keep S2 missions the same, but limit them to 4 people only.

For every mission that has S2 rank, create an identical mission that has a requirement of 4~6 people, same level restrictions its S2 counterpart. In this mission, the enemies will be set to be a challenge for 6 people, so a full party still gets their asses handed to them on a royal platter no matter the size.

That way, S2 missions will default to a tad harder since they only allow 4 people.

The new mission could be called *gasp*, S3.

RegulusHikari
Jun 5, 2008, 03:42 PM
I'll have to agree, I think all the changed were for the better. I'd rather spend 25 runs in DG and find an Orpad / Guard and maybe a Baret instead of 250 and finding nothing but a nanopolymer.

Same goes for leveling PAs. There's no reason that I should spend an entire DG run emptying 8 Phantoms (some 6/10), a 5/9 Mizurakihoh, and a 2/10 Rattlesnake just to get 3% on KS.

The only thing that needs to be harder in this game IMO is character leveling, because that far exceeds class or PA leveling. The missions NEED to be balanced reward-wise, so that White Beast and Plains Overlord (about the same in difficulty) have a difference of almost 150 MP.

I should not be level 130 and only have 3 level 20 PAs. Likewise, I should not see level 20 Masterforces running around with level 5 Diga. Make the advanced classes require level 50 and the masters require level 100.

The drop rates have a perfect balance, there's plenty of common 10*s, uncommon 11*s, and extremely rare 12*+s (Agito, Amore Tip, Love Inferno). The PAs need a boost (2/3/2 sounds great, so that should be a good fix), missions need a reward rebalance, and base leveling should take longer. Then PSU would practically be perfect for me. (Sorry, I can't dump 2k hours on every character)

EDIT: There needs to be new missions with hard ass monsters like buffed Carriguines or Grinna Ss (and let's get some new models) that DON'T have ranks lower than 150+ monsters. A level 1 shouldn't be able to run through the end game area and kill the same boss that my capped FF does.

fay
Jun 5, 2008, 03:44 PM
i like some and i dont like some.

personally i think the enemys in PSU are a lot...smarter than pso. they know how to avoid attacks this time more often rather than having a normal straight forward attack pattern.

pso was a lot harder though in ep2.
if i remember right im lv 156 in pso. force. i still cannot solo the seabed feeling confident about not dieing.

and items.
in PSU its ridicules. if you cant get the item all you do it search for it bring out your meseta. ill take that. thank you come again.
in pso you had to hunt down you the items you wanted for sooooo long that it isnt funny. i wish PSU was like thta. just the item factor does it for me.

i bet about 90% of the peopel on this forum can name about 5+ people they know online at level 130 and i bet they all have the exact same pallet.

RemiusTA
Jun 5, 2008, 03:46 PM
If they refuse to default the enemy ability to match the number of players, the newer tiers of difficulty (S3, S4, S5) should all be counterparts of the mission that SET HANDICAPS.

Either it limits the amount of people and makes the mission really really hard, or they set a minimum amount of people so they can make the mission so demoralizing that it FORCES a team of 6 people to get some teamwork going. Or, they could set standards like Event missions, where the death of a team member = instant loss, or restricting Scape Dolls....get my drift?


I personally think that if they can create a mission where me and 5 others can go in with our best gear, max scape dolls/ mates, and STILL get raped, then PSU is succeding at something.



And THAT, is catering to the hardcore gamers. Make missions so hard that only the best can S rank them, let alone complete them, and make the highest *weapons rewards in those missions.

Boom.

Seority
Jun 5, 2008, 03:48 PM
For those who complain that PSO / old PSU could only be played by 24/7 "no life" people:
DreXxiN at age 10- 14 (or whatever) became almost god-like on PSO. He had a capped character and tons of rares, which are damn rare on that game. He played after school, ate dinner, played starcraft, did homework, and went to bed before night everyday. When PSU came out, he still played DDR, Star Craft, MGS, and more along with PSU. He got his char capped really soon, and got lucky with rares and snyths at the time. Reguardless he was still a good player and enjoyed the difficulty that PSU had. Mind you he still did his homework, had a gf, did many outdoor activities, and so on.
When we say "hardcore" players, we do not mean people that stay up days on end to play this game, and I've obviously showed you that you don't have to do that to be decent at the game. Who we mean is people who get into the game. Take time to understand what is what, what combo is good with this monster, to be a team player and help others, to feel acomplished when they're effort pays off.
Time doesn't make you a good player. A bad player who plays for 8 hours long isn't better then the good player who only plays for 3.
It's called skills and intelligence people. You don't have to be a nerd to be good at a challenging game. If you don't wish to put effort into the game, then you better be satisfied with the outcome. Hell, you can still enjoy the damn game without being the best. If you think the game is too difficult for you, play something else. Don't bitch saying the game is unfair.

PSU has become more casual based meaning there is little to no difficulty at a certain point. It's becoming a game you can become really "good" at with out trying over a weekend, which is hell to those who did play this game for it's challenge. Why did Sega do that? To attract more people, to get more money, to expand the game. Sadly that attempt has failed. More people play PSO now then PSU. HMM. I WONDER WHY THAT IS?

I'm sad the direction PSU has gone, and I can only pray for it to become interesting again.

amtalx
Jun 5, 2008, 03:55 PM
If they refuse to default the enemy ability to match the number of players, the newer tiers of difficulty (S3, S4, S5) should all be counterparts of the mission that SET HANDICAPS.

Either it limits the amount of people and makes the mission really really hard, or they set a minimum amount of people so they can make the mission so demoralizing that it FORCES a team of 6 people to get some teamwork going. Or, they could set standards like Event missions, where the death of a team member = instant loss, or restricting Scape Dolls....get my drift?


I personally think that if they can create a mission where me and 5 others can go in with our best gear, max scape dolls/ mates, and STILL get raped, then PSU is succeding at something.



And THAT, is catering to the hardcore gamers. Make missions so hard that only the best can S rank them, let alone complete them, and make the highest *weapons rewards in those missions.

Boom.

Yes.

I'm not a big fan of handicaps though. It doesn't really change the gameplay in a positive way. Reducing the number of players in a mission would be almost as bad as a seeing "All your weapons will do 1/2 damage." in the breifing window before missions.

A wider variety of enemies would be nice to. If you really think about it, all small mob enemies behave almost exactly the same. Medium and large mob aren't much better. Think of all the different attacks you needed to be aware of in PSO Seabed. Fuck Morfos btw...

stukasa
Jun 5, 2008, 03:57 PM
Just to clarify, the game at the start wasn't perfect, and I don't want PSU to be too time consuming either. However, they did overdo things. It'd be nice to have things in the middle, rather than drastically "fixed."
I agree. I'm glad this is a casual game (I probably wouldn't be playing it otherwise) but they've gone overboard making it a little TOO casual.


I do think though that if they want to hold customers instead of having them become bored, they need to unlock content a bit faster, become more organized on updates, instead of constant delays, and they need to fix the "hotspot" problem. Supposedly we were supposed to have an on-site lobby population finder of some sort, that needs to happen soon.
I think so too. The game keeps getting easier and they aren't unlocking content fast enough to keep up with our progress. I never found a single S-rank until 1Up, but now that drop rates are changed I have most of the rares I can use. Pretty soon I'll run out of rares to hunt (until new ones are released) and then the only thing I'll have left to do is level my PAs, but even that's getting easier now too.


In all truth, they just need to balance the missions.

The MAIN, MAIN, MAIN problem with PSU's difficulty is the amount of players allowed to join, and the fact that the developers REFUSE to make the difficulty of the enemies rise/fall depending on the number of players in a mission.

If you have 6 people at level 130 with near maxed PAs that do broken damage, there is no reason the boss of that stage should still have the same HP it has when you face it solo.

6 people should = at LEAST 400% more HP and attack power.
This is a great idea that they should have had from the start. Players are much stronger than they were in v1, for several reasons: they're higher leveled, they have stronger weapons/PAs, Just Attack and Just Counter, synthing gives us better %s (on average), weapons can't break during grinds anymore so there are more high grind weapons out there, etc. etc., the list goes on and on..

Yet somehow, despite getting stronger in so many ways, we're still fighting enemies that are (mostly) lower leveled than we are! It's not hard to see why a party of 6 people would be overkill in a situation like that. Even 3-4 people makes most missions too easy.

I still like this game and find it fun, but I also realize that it could be a lot better. Hopefully ST realizes this too and actually does something about it! I don't expect changes to come quickly, but maybe someday...

DreXxiN
Jun 5, 2008, 03:58 PM
For those who complain that PSO / old PSU could only be played by 24/7 "no life" people:
DreXxiN at age 10- 14 (or whatever) became almost god-like on PSO. He had a capped character and tons of rares, which are damn rare on that game. He played after school, ate dinner, played starcraft, did homework, and went to bed before night everyday. When PSU came out, he still played DDR, Star Craft, MGS, and more along with PSU. He got his char capped really soon, and got lucky with rares and snyths at the time. Reguardless he was still a good player and enjoyed the difficulty that PSU had. Mind you he still did his homework, had a gf, did many outdoor activities, and so on.
When we say "hardcore" players, we do not mean people that stay up days on end to play this game, and I've obviously showed you that you don't have to do that to be decent at the game. Who we mean is people who get into the game. Take time to understand what is what, what combo is good with this monster, to be a team player and help others, to feel acomplished when they're effort pays off.
Time doesn't make you a good player. A bad player who plays for 8 hours long isn't better then the good player who only plays for 3.
It's called skills and intelligence people. You don't have to be a nerd to be good at a challenging game. If you don't wish to put effort into the game, then you better be satisfied with the outcome. Hell, you can still enjoy the damn game without being the best. If you think the game is too difficult for you, play something else. Don't bitch saying the game is unfair.

PSU has become more casual based meaning there is little to no difficulty at a certain point. It's becoming a game you can become really "good" at with out trying over a weekend, which is hell to those who did play this game for it's challenge. Why did Sega do that? To attract more people, to get more money, to expand the game. Sadly that attempt has failed. More people play PSO now then PSU. HMM. I WONDER WHY THAT IS?

I'm sad the direction PSU has gone, and I can only pray for it to become interesting again.


Lol thanks hun, people don't really need to know about my life story though =P.

I totally agree (But really, back in the day, you really couldn't level cap in PSU if you had a substantial life, LOL. )

Ken_Silver
Jun 5, 2008, 04:04 PM
To those who still see this game as easy, I HIGHLY disagree. I have the hardest time leveling up, PA leveling and a whole lot more.

But for those who do want the game to be more challenging, there should be a new level of missions that are a lot harder to do.

Beware, however, there are quite a few challenging missions that are out there, but players don't go and do these missions. So the question could be posed: should we make the already difficult missions more rewarding?

fay
Jun 5, 2008, 04:07 PM
as another thing to add.
we all know how addictive a game like this is.

i bet most people have got to the point that they dont enjoy it anymore but they still play. its like its a job. leveling PAs. not exactly the most fun thung about but peopel level them all day like a job

Yusaku_Kudou
Jun 5, 2008, 04:20 PM
Eh, I'm not quitting any time soon. I'm hooked on leveling every PA in the game to max. Beyond that, there's not much of a point. I'm afraid this PA leveling boost will make that all the quicker. I digress--I would probably keep playing just to find the best 10/10 S ranks... or start over LOL.

To up the challenge in the game, make the level requirements insanely high from this point on. We don't even need to be capped 10 at a time. Stop giving us EXP modifiers in events, because they make leveling up moot. Yes, I am saying just put the cap at 200 and make it nigh difficult to get there with our current missions. Additionally, Sonic Team needs to stop making new missions have such low MP and meseta rewards for the difficult missions. We should be awarded a penalty for running the same mission over and over, like halving the mission rewards for a set amount of time for the overrun mission. Or just bring back GBR already.

Ezodagrom
Jun 5, 2008, 04:26 PM
There are a few missions that are harder...to solo (some are just easy even soloing). But if we go as a party of 6...monsters just die in a few seconds ._. (bosses probably in around 0 to 3 minutes, depending on the boss).
This is why I would like highest difficulty missions with lvl 150+ monsters (at least) and at least twice the number of monsters (and also with the unnerfed speed they had a long time ago), so we would need a party to do the missions (since...well, it's an online game, we were supposed to play in groups, not solo ._.)...

Iduno
Jun 5, 2008, 04:51 PM
For those who complain that PSO / old PSU could only be played by 24/7 "no life" people:
DreXxiN at age 10- 14 (or whatever) became almost god-like on PSO. He had a capped character and tons of rares, which are damn rare on that game. He played after school, ate dinner, played starcraft, did homework, and went to bed before night everyday. When PSU came out, he still played DDR, Star Craft, MGS, and more along with PSU. He got his char capped really soon, and got lucky with rares and snyths at the time. Reguardless he was still a good player and enjoyed the difficulty that PSU had. Mind you he still did his homework, had a gf, did many outdoor activities, and so on.
When we say "hardcore" players, we do not mean people that stay up days on end to play this game, and I've obviously showed you that you don't have to do that to be decent at the game. Who we mean is people who get into the game. Take time to understand what is what, what combo is good with this monster, to be a team player and help others, to feel acomplished when they're effort pays off.
Time doesn't make you a good player. A bad player who plays for 8 hours long isn't better then the good player who only plays for 3.
It's called skills and intelligence people. You don't have to be a nerd to be good at a challenging game. If you don't wish to put effort into the game, then you better be satisfied with the outcome. Hell, you can still enjoy the damn game without being the best. If you think the game is too difficult for you, play something else. Don't bitch saying the game is unfair.

PSU has become more casual based meaning there is little to no difficulty at a certain point. It's becoming a game you can become really "good" at with out trying over a weekend, which is hell to those who did play this game for it's challenge. Why did Sega do that? To attract more people, to get more money, to expand the game. Sadly that attempt has failed. More people play PSO now then PSU. HMM. I WONDER WHY THAT IS?

I'm sad the direction PSU has gone, and I can only pray for it to become interesting again.

I totaly agree and also I would absolutely love to see the people who think the easymode we have atm play some games witch require actual skill lol (like Cuilan's last boss on WarTech Senko no Ronde lol it would eat them alive)

Kanore
Jun 5, 2008, 04:53 PM
For those who complain that PSO / old PSU could only be played by 24/7 "no life" people:
DreXxiN at age 10- 14 (or whatever) became almost god-like on PSO. He had a capped character and tons of rares, which are damn rare on that game. He played after school, ate dinner, played starcraft, did homework, and went to bed before night everyday. When PSU came out, he still played DDR, Star Craft, MGS, and more along with PSU. He got his char capped really soon, and got lucky with rares and snyths at the time. Reguardless he was still a good player and enjoyed the difficulty that PSU had. Mind you he still did his homework, had a gf, did many outdoor activities, and so on.
When we say "hardcore" players, we do not mean people that stay up days on end to play this game, and I've obviously showed you that you don't have to do that to be decent at the game. Who we mean is people who get into the game. Take time to understand what is what, what combo is good with this monster, to be a team player and help others, to feel acomplished when they're effort pays off.
Time doesn't make you a good player. A bad player who plays for 8 hours long isn't better then the good player who only plays for 3.
It's called skills and intelligence people. You don't have to be a nerd to be good at a challenging game. If you don't wish to put effort into the game, then you better be satisfied with the outcome. Hell, you can still enjoy the damn game without being the best. If you think the game is too difficult for you, play something else. Don't bitch saying the game is unfair.

PSU has become more casual based meaning there is little to no difficulty at a certain point. It's becoming a game you can become really "good" at with out trying over a weekend, which is hell to those who did play this game for it's challenge. Why did Sega do that? To attract more people, to get more money, to expand the game. Sadly that attempt has failed. More people play PSO now then PSU. HMM. I WONDER WHY THAT IS?

I'm sad the direction PSU has gone, and I can only pray for it to become interesting again.

If 'skills' and 'intelligence' is needed to spend 100 hours just leveling a PA, then I feel sorry for where those 'skills' and 'intelligence' is going.

The PA leveling aspect of PSU prior to the upcoming update is the most skill-less aspect of the game. All you do is use a PA over and over and voila - it levels! I don't see why people are getting so ruffled over PA leveling becoming simpler; it's whining at its finest.

In a more general standpoint, anyone that doesn't have 'skills' and 'intelligence' to PSU - the 'bad' players - either don't care, or are just totally unfit for video games entirely. That sucks. That's why no one plays with them.

PSU has only being going one direction the entire time from the very beginning: Down a hill. There may have been a few bumps, but SoJ seems to like keeping our side of the game to a smooth, uninterrupted downhill slope.


To those who still see this game as easy, I HIGHLY disagree. I have the hardest time leveling up, PA leveling and a whole lot more.

Hard as in what? Time, or challenge/difficulty? There could be a difference. If it's the latter, I'm... so sorry.

Dragwind
Jun 5, 2008, 04:59 PM
I should also add that I agree with needing harder difficulty missions. It would be nice to see some missions with intense mobs that really test the strategic use of your weapons and PA's, rather than pure damage. Some of these party missions show some signs of that, but not enough.

I think we need something along the lines of Bruce but not needing to memorize puzzles so much, or be put on a time limit.

Rather something with enemies that might require some co-ordinated killing, heavier item usage, etc. Something that the experienced players can chose to play if they wish, but something the newer players would need more strategy and knowledge to be able to do effectively.

Basically, I think we need some more "upper tier" difficulty missions catered to the willing players looking for some more challenge.

Ezodagrom
Jun 5, 2008, 04:59 PM
If 'skills' and 'intelligence' is needed to spend 100 hours just leveling a PA, then I feel sorry for where those 'skills' and 'intelligence' is going.

I think some of us aren't complaining about PAs being easier to lvl up (I'm happy actually with that update), but about how easy missions are right now...(or at least I am) xD

Kanore
Jun 5, 2008, 05:02 PM
Okay then, what if we get a harder difficulty mission? It'll take too long. People will whine about not getting as much EXP as they did just speed running the last mission. When the level cap is raised and the mission gets a bit easier, then the mission will be labeled as too easy.

If it's for capped out players, who wants to play a capped out character? Alts for everyone! And then time to quit.

Aumi
Jun 5, 2008, 05:04 PM
As far as I know there'll come up to S5.

Iduno
Jun 5, 2008, 05:04 PM
If 'skills' and 'intelligence' is needed to spend 100 hours just leveling a PA, then I feel sorry for where those 'skills' and 'intelligence' is going.

The PA leveling aspect of PSU prior to the upcoming update is the most skill-less aspect of the game. All you do is use a PA over and over and voila - it levels! I don't see why people are getting so ruffled over PA leveling being so simple; it's whining at its finest.

In a more general standpoint, anyone that doesn't have 'skills' and 'intelligence' to PSU - the 'bad' players - either don't care, or are just totally unfit for video games entirely. That sucks. That's why no one plays with them.

PSU has only being going one direction the entire time from the very beginning: Down a hill. There may have been a few bumps, but SoJ seems to like keeping our side of the game to a smooth, uninterrupted downhill slope.



Hard as in what? Time, or challenge/difficulty? There could be a difference. If it's the latter, I'm... so sorry.

1st. PAs were not specificaly mentioned in that post.

2nd. If you use your head you can find ways to level PAs without dropping 100+ hours on them (high% fire weapons vs de ragon anyone? Safe spots in mad creatures? Sleeping warriors?) or how about this? If you have absolutely no time learning which PAs are also effective at lower levels or fast leveling so you can just play normaly and have them level

Also why not reward sheer bloodymindedness with some hard to level PAs, it shows some people can put the effort in to level them

Ezodagrom
Jun 5, 2008, 05:13 PM
Okay then, what if we get a harder difficulty mission? It'll take too long. People will whine about not getting as much EXP as they did just speed running the last mission. When the level cap is raised and the mission gets a bit easier, then the mission will be labeled as too easy.

If it's for capped out players, who wants to play a capped out character? Alts for everyone! And then time to quit.

That's why I mentioned in one of my 1st posts in this topic having S missions with monsters between lvl 100 and 150 for those that want to make speed runs or easy missions, and S2 with lvl 150+ monsters, twice or more than twice the ammount of monsters from a S mission (at least some missions that have like spawns of 3 or 4 small/medium monsters), and unnerfed speed on the monsters, for the ones that would like more challenging missions that really need a party of like at least 4 ppl to make it in a good time.

Or at the very least, a rebalancing of all v1 and aoi missions (no increase of ammount of enemies and such), so all mission on S have monsters between lvl 100 and 150 and S2 150+. Jp now have some S2 aoi missions with lvl 150+ monsters, while the old ones and even some aoi ones (De rol le mission), are stuck with monsters below lvl 150, even monsters below lvl 100 (Holy grounds, Lab recovery, Crimson beast, to name a few)

stalkernight
Jun 5, 2008, 05:22 PM
I played PSU when it first came out and quit after the first month simply because it was too hard.
the great thing about PSO was it was a quick and easy to get into get afew levels and items then quit.
Everything about PSU was the exact oppisite, it took alot of time to find the right mission, ages to level up, much harder to make any sort of money etc.

I only started playing again afew months ago when I seen a sale copy of the expansion.
While no where near perfect it has move much further towards what a console based MMO should be like.
Everything flows alot better now experience wise and money.

My only main problem is the repeating missions over and over which I cant see sonic team fixing ever, since players will always go to the most experience etc.
the great thing about PSO was that you could start a game on a difficulty and just run though
the enviroments in a massive row and players could come and go whenever they wanted.
now its all this mission is the best do it over and over.

I think that PSU isnt going anywhere and that its basically a failed experiment of sonic team trying to mutate phantasy star into some kind of semi full on MMO.

If I had a chance to say where they should go I would tell sega to simply take PSO as a base make a new game fun quick and easy to level and get items, put in a pvp mode and make everything simple and pick up and play.
Then rather then release it as a full fledged game they should release it online only though the PSN and xbox networks and as a PC download.
have no suscription fee but release new content packs every threeish months that cost money.

phantasy star will never ever be a big game again especially since more console mmo games are gonna start coming pretty quickly over the next few years and the series only hope is to make it a fun easy cheap online game to play with afew friends when you happen to feel like it.

Iduno
Jun 5, 2008, 05:35 PM
I played PSU when it first came out and quit after the first month simply because it was too hard.
the great thing about PSO was it was a quick and easy to get into get afew levels and items then quit.
Everything about PSU was the exact oppisite, it took alot of time to find the right mission, ages to level up, much harder to make any sort of money etc.

I only started playing again afew months ago when I seen a sale copy of the expansion.
While no where near perfect it has move much further towards what a console based MMO should be like.
Everything flows alot better now experience wise and money.

My only main problem is the repeating missions over and over which I cant see sonic team fixing ever, since players will always go to the most experience etc.
the great thing about PSO was that you could start a game on a difficulty and just run though
the enviroments in a massive row and players could come and go whenever they wanted.
now its all this mission is the best do it over and over.

I think that PSU isnt going anywhere and that its basically a failed experiment of sonic team trying to mutate phantasy star into some kind of semi full on MMO.

If I had a chance to say where they should go I would tell sega to simply take PSO as a base make a new game fun quick and easy to level and get items, put in a pvp mode and make everything simple and pick up and play.
Then rather then release it as a full fledged game they should release it online only though the PSN and xbox networks and as a PC download.
have no suscription fee but release new content packs every threeish months that cost money.

phantasy star will never ever be a big game again especially since more console mmo games are gonna start coming pretty quickly over the next few years and the series only hope is to make it a fun easy cheap online game to play with afew friends when you happen to feel like it.

A) Easy exp, weapons and meseta is not a good thing, it just means your shiny A-S ranks are just as common as the C and B ranks you didn't like before were (in comparison to them then not now) and having one is no acheivement.

B) I actualy do agree with the bit about grinding one mission over and over, we need something to spread people out so WB isn't the only place you can find a party

C) No Way do I want to buy download only games like that, content WILL be locked for you to buy later, you will NOT be able to shop around for a good price on it or trade it in if it bores you, you WILL LOSE hardrive space quickly and drm CAN screw you over if you fancy playing offline on another 360 if you are on the 360 (which is quite possible with how they can die on you)

Golto
Jun 5, 2008, 06:07 PM
You guys who don't like the changes need to remember all the easy mode changes are all because of the Japanese gamers input and not input from Western gamers.

Kinako78
Jun 5, 2008, 06:09 PM
There is a difference between making things harder and playing 24/7. This game is dead easy now reguardless on how you put it, with only one rare which is godly hard to get while being available at one time. Alot of use are stuck at level 130(Without trying mind you) while maxed out several classes with only thing to do is leveling PAs, which is gonna be easier now anyway.

The game can still be easy and you can play 24/7...

When did I mention anything considering difficulty? All I'm saying is that, between only playing a few hours a night and having to move THREE TIMES in the past 7 months, I'm way behind in experience and PA levels and have only 4 S ranks to my name. So, no, it's not just "noobs" that benefit from this.

Elley
Jun 5, 2008, 08:25 PM
The changes taking place are very welcome. PSU is one of the very few casual RPGs. It's about time people who work and go to school at the same time can get ahead in a game. I believe any player who really feel like the game is just too easy can simply go to a more life consuming game. That's not an insult to anyone. I have friends who are still in high school who play a lot because they don't have to work (and it's summer vacation). They enjoy countless hours of play and might agree with the topic creator. As for me, these changes are needed. PSO was easier than PSU v1 (Well, some EP 2 missions were suicidal).

I totally agree with you. I love this game because I can actually make progress without making it my life. Quick leveling with events, PA rebalance, and the ability to get decent items whenever I need them make the game more enjoyable for me. Games shouldn't be work.

Gen2000
Jun 6, 2008, 12:10 AM
On the issue of "challenging missions", there will never be a challenge even with new S2s. Mission will just take slightly longer before until the level cap is raised again.

The moment they made every single attack flinch the monster challenge was gone. I saw it coming when they announced that. Going head first into a mob and just PA spamming got you destroyed back in the early days because only certain parts of the normal attack chain or PAs caused flinch on a monster.

Shotguns was suicide basically unless you had great armor, imo giving weapons like that flinching was ok but not something like Xbows, hardly any risk using em considering the damage output they do.

Enemies can't even fight back nowadays, in 6man parties it looks like they're having seizures before combusting into green goo.

Sekani
Jun 6, 2008, 12:38 AM
The only way PSU so far has had anything resembling challenge is through the timed missions. I could bitch and moan about the difficulty all day (Remius' solution sounds nice), but the real problem is the one that amtalx brought up in his original post: once you've capped your character, there's seriously nothing to do. Once I got my first character to level 130, I stopped playing him altogether. I had a second one getting close last time I played.

I mean, you could spend all your time running the same mission over and over and over hoping that the gods of randomness decide to shine on you and give you that S-rank weapon you wanted, but there is absolutely nothing fun about that. Yet, that's what everyone does because there's nothing else to shoot for. It's pathetic.

This is probably why everyone wants the game made easier, so they could even get the tedium of rare hunting out of the way faster. But what then?

darkante
Jun 6, 2008, 12:49 AM
You guys who don't like the changes need to remember all the easy mode changes are all because of the Japanese gamers input and not input from Western gamers.

That´s because nowdays they don´t like to challenge themselves.
It´s pretty sad...i always considered JP players as hardcore trying everything to make it more challenging. Guess their Super-Human reflexes has left them. :S

Sio
Jun 6, 2008, 01:02 AM
I agree with the OP, but I have a feeling PSU is going through exactly what pso did. I can't comment to much since I never played on dreamcast days, but when it was remade on gamecube and xbox it definatly felt like a complete game. That "complete" game was tweaked and remade over a span of time, to get to that wonderful point. I believe psu is going through these changes as we speak. Maybe we will start getting those scary missions one day, like those towers in pso D: (loved em so much)

ryvius
Jun 6, 2008, 01:05 AM
The hardcore jp players ARE much more hardcore than our hardcore players.. >_>

They've probably got an even larger audience that wants a more casual game though, considering just how much bigger their population is to begin with

darkante
Jun 6, 2008, 01:17 AM
I agree with the OP, but I have a feeling PSU is going through exactly what pso did. I can't comment to much since I never played on dreamcast days, but when it was remade on gamecube and xbox it definatly felt like a complete game. That "complete" game was tweaked and remade over a span of time, to get to that wonderful point. I believe psu is going through these changes as we speak. Maybe we will start getting those scary missions, like those towers in pso D: (loved em so much)

Don´t get me going..i have many ideas on how mission could be played on for area.

For instance...block 1 could be an survival battle on a ship on the ocean which you have to survive for maybe 5 minutes while a massive spawn of ice element enemies will jump aboard from time to time before the ship reaches the destination..a island with a huge tower.

Block 2 is fighting through the jungle to reach the tower..its hard to see where enemies will spawn from so you have to be careful.

Block 3 is inside the tower, you have to take down alot of flying enemies while making it to the top.

Block 4..Boss fight off course..a new flying boss with a little twist which you fight on the roof. You have to use the harpoons weapons on the roof, but it will not have an effect until you have stunned it enough with guns..and consider the boss attacks like a bird and you know almost what attack partern it will have
So..when you have finally stunned it..shoot it with the harpoon to drag that big bird to the roof and it drags fast too so it will be stunned as well on the roof...now is the time to use MAX ATTACK to actually hurt it before it takes off again.

When you have defeated it there, it will go to phaze 2..in the cut-scene it will use its feets to take up the players and throw them into the ocean.
You start with a fun swimming mini-game where you have to press a certain button combo mentioned on-screen to swim to the ship and if you are to slow you will take dmg.
When you have reached the ship..you can then use the cannons on the ship to take out the big and evil bird for good.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

NegaTsukasa
Jun 6, 2008, 01:18 AM
Hmmm. Interesting I hear something like this. Now compare how long it took for one of these topics to come up for PSU, and then for PSO.
For PSU, to quickly. I find that as a bad sign. PSO was in the project for a longer period befor it got a topic thread like this befor I joined the site but still navigated it.

PSO had a similar assumption(s) like this one in the threads a long time ago. So It's no suprise really that we'd be seeing these topic.

PSU I do think is still early yet not too early to get something like this topic thread.

PSU still has alote of years ahead of it. Things might change for the better. We never know.

Sio
Jun 6, 2008, 01:23 AM
Don´t get me going..i have many ideas on how mission could be played on for area.

For instance...block 1 could be an survival battle on a ship on the ocean which you have to survive for maybe 5 minutes while a massive spawn of ice element enemies will jump aboard from time to time before the ship reaches the destination..a island with a huge tower.

Block 2 is fighting through the jungle to reach the tower..its hard to see where enemies will spawn from so you have to be careful.

Block 3 is inside the tower, you have to take down alot of flying enemies while making it to the top.

Block 4..Boss fight off course..a new flying boss with a little twist which you fight on the roof. You have to use the harpoons weapons on the roof, but it will not have an effect until you have stunned it enough with guns..and consider the boss attacks like a bird and you know almost what attack partern it will have
So..when you have finally stunned it..shoot it with the harpoon to drag that big bird to the roof and it drags fast too so it will be stunned as well on the roof...now is the time to use MAX ATTACK to actually hurt it before it takes off again.

When you have defeated it there, it will go to phaze 2..in the cut-scene it will use its feets to take up the players and throw them into the ocean.
You start with a fun swimming mini-game where you have to press a certain button combo mentioned on-screen to swim to the ship and if you are to slow you will take dmg.
When you have reached the ship..you can then use the cannons on the ship to take out the big and evil bird for good.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!


Hehe I love that idea though that's to much work for sega to manage XD, monster hunter tried to pull off that type of gameplay. If we get the new monster hunter I'm so gone from psu lol.

Shinko
Jun 6, 2008, 01:59 AM
There a lot of problem with psu... and many ppl here have good points (especially BIGGIEstyle) but segac must be doing something right because we're still here. segac fuck up often, bad/low community, way too easy, too noob friendly, we complain and complain but were still here playing. we stop playing for awhile but we end up coming back. idk what it is but it's something about psu that keep us here.

maybe..... if someone took psu you from segac..... we can really enjoy what it has to offer lol..... or kill the current segac team and get new ones


Don´t get me going..i have many ideas on how mission could be played on for area.

For instance...block 1 could be an survival battle on a ship on the ocean which you have to survive for maybe 5 minutes while a massive spawn of ice element enemies will jump aboard from time to time before the ship reaches the destination..a island with a huge tower.

Block 2 is fighting through the jungle to reach the tower..its hard to see where enemies will spawn from so you have to be careful.

Block 3 is inside the tower, you have to take down alot of flying enemies while making it to the top.

Block 4..Boss fight off course..a new flying boss with a little twist which you fight on the roof. You have to use the harpoons weapons on the roof, but it will not have an effect until you have stunned it enough with guns..and consider the boss attacks like a bird and you know almost what attack partern it will have
So..when you have finally stunned it..shoot it with the harpoon to drag that big bird to the roof and it drags fast too so it will be stunned as well on the roof...now is the time to use MAX ATTACK to actually hurt it before it takes off again.

When you have defeated it there, it will go to phaze 2..in the cut-scene it will use its feets to take up the players and throw them into the ocean.
You start with a fun swimming mini-game where you have to press a certain button combo mentioned on-screen to swim to the ship and if you are to slow you will take dmg.
When you have reached the ship..you can then use the cannons on the ship to take out the big and evil bird for good.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

Hahahahahahahahahahahaaaa lol lmao .....

ok had to get that laugh off. now that sound REALLY great but come on this is segac we're talking about..... like they could ever pull something as good as that off hahahahaa ... too funny