Idea: bows and cards used TP intead of ATP

[Weeaboolits]

What if bows and cards used TP intead of ATP for damage calculation?

I doubt it'll ever happen, but it'd certainly be interesting if ever they did this.

[Kinako78]

That would be cool for cards. Not so sure about bows.

[Ken_Silver]

What made you think about that Ronin?

I'm guessing that it must be to help Newman who use the two, but the idea is just interesting to me. It's not something people think of or have suggested before. It also puts it in line with Shadoogs who I think are also based on TP not ATP.

Wanna elaborate a little more on your idea?

[Shiro_Ryuu]

That would be pretty interesting if they did that actually.

[panzer_unit]

What if bows and cards used TP intead of ATP for damage calculation?

I doubt it'll ever happen, but it'd certainly be interesting if ever they did this.

lolProtransers

[PALRAPPYS]

Actually, before PSU came out, bows damage was supposed to be based on TP. Of course, they probably decided to add Protansers, so they took out the idea.

[Ken_Silver]

Actually, before PSU came out, bows damage was supposed to be based on TP. Of course, they probably decided to add Protansers, so they took out the idea.

That makes sense.

And Pal, I love your sig. You beat me to making that logo. :razz:

[xEndrance]

Even with protransers they should make it tp. because its one of the few weapons that a FT can use...along with cards.. and there atp not being high =/ makes them sometimes useless compared to your techs

[panzer_unit]

Actually, before PSU came out, bows damage was supposed to be based on TP. Of course, they probably decided to add Protansers, so they took out the idea.

Heck, give the class a good TP mod and switch bows over. It would give Human Protransers something to show off about.

My cast PT would qq a little in bossfights... but for damage Handgun actually does better.
Firing twice as fast > more ATP and ignore defense.

[Weeaboolits]

What made you think about that Ronin?

I'm guessing that it must be to help Newman who use the two, but the idea is just interesting to me. It's not something people think of or have suggested before. It also puts it in line with Shadoogs who I think are also based on TP not ATP.

Wanna elaborate a little more on your idea?That was part of it, as it stands, newmans stats are pretty much trash for anything aside from teching, it'd be nice to give them another outlet for their primary stat, additionally, it'd help differentiate bows from rifles.

Also, it'd make newmans better at some things, like acrofighter can use cards, as an acrofighter, my newman has 1000 moe TP than she does atp, were cards based on TP rather than atp, it'd about double her damage with them. My newman also has 800 more TP than atp on wartecher, so it would increase both bow and card damage were a change such as this implement. Not to mention at GT1, my newman's tp is over double her atp, I don't know how it'd go at higher levels, but if it follows the same trend, it'd make a bow quite useable for a newman one.

Though as far as PT, if such a change were implemented it'd need a substantial TP boost, as even a newman PT's TP is significantly lower than their ATP.

Beasts and casts would no longer do so well with either weapon, but they do better with atp based weapons already, which is nearly all of them. It'd be much better for the balancing to have an outlet for the stat that the stronger two races are so lacking in hat could actually be utilized by more classes.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I agree with Ronin, making longbows and cards TP-based would give Newmans something to be superior at other than Techs. And for the PTs, just increase the class's TP mod and you're all good.

[Magus_84]

I like this idea. It would give Guntechers somewhat of a reason to pick Bows over Rifles, other than looks. On some enemies, anyway. Though the higher rate of fire, higher elemental percentage, higher range and knockdown still stack things in Rifle's favor. >_>

And I'd love having TP-based cards on GT, after the TP boost. Would also give FT a (more) viable damage option other than their techs, for tech-resistant stuff. I assume the damage would be kinda like a RCSM. Bullet-type damage with TP replacing ATP in the calculation, targetting enemy DFP.

Hell, go all the way and make Whips like that too. Though that'd probably be a bit overpowering...it'd give FT a better option against the big multi-target banes of their existence.

[Weeaboolits]

I think applying it to whips would be a bit much, they hit a lot of targets as it is, and AT's speed and high TP would make it a bit too powerful, I think.

[Libram]

If this happened I'd be too tempted to make a small newman named MOMO and have her spam "Mystic powers, grant me a miracle!" every time I cast a TECH.

For those not in the know I'm referencing MOMO from Xenosaga 2. She gained her bow in that game, and instead of making it a physical attack it became an ether attack, which is Xenosaga's version of magic. Aside from her low HP she was incredibly overpowered, especially when someone else broke the enemy's guard.

[Seority]

To bad humans still stink regaurdless if this happend or not.

I's say they need to switch stuff to make them stronger.
Beast, CASTS, and newmans have too much anyway...

[Weeaboolits]

Humans have the second highest TP, so they could take advantage of such changes to a lesser extent than newmans.

[RemiusTA]

What if bows and cards used TP intead of ATP for damage calculation?

I doubt it'll ever happen, but it'd certainly be interesting if ever they did this.

Sounds smart to me. Seeing as there IS no arrow on any of the bows on this game, and cards look like technic weapons to me anyway.

not to mention, the classes who are able to use this weapon have shit low ATP anyway

[Rayokarna]

To bad humans still stink regaurdless if this happend or not.

I's say they need to switch stuff to make them stronger.
Beast, CASTS, and newmans have too much anyway...

Lol at humans stink.

Humans still have a lot more to offer than Newmans for the simple fact that the TP & MST calculations to everything still suck and EVP is more of an annoyance than anything else. So all of that together still kinda puts them in last place (as much as I hate to say it) and all that matters in the game is ATP/HP/DFP(at some cases)/ATA(At lower levels)/STA and Newmans come bottom in three of those five catagories, so do the maths.

And in terms in Ronin's idea...

...No!

Bows are the one weapon that I love using as PT and I enjoy there power at an extremly long range. Those would hurt me hard if they were based of TP(Since the TP calcualtion would probably suck and a CAST natural TP sucks ass anyway) it would make them totally unuse-able even if PT had a decent TP mod. Bows are the one thing I have pride in hitting stuff really hard with and to give that up would a waste of time in leveling bows. I would ony accept this if PTs got Rifles and Double Sabers (Just for the simple fact we would have every two-handed weapon in the game except for Rods for obvious reasons).

[RemiusTA]

There is no reason a cast should want to use a bow when they have Rifles.

[Rayokarna]

There is no reason a cast should want to use a bow when they have Rifles.

PT can't use Rifles...

...Most PTs are CASTs...

...See where I'm going...

[Yusaku_Kudou]

Newmans would then become the strongest race, probably. 2000 TP with a bow or card? Acrofighter already does over 700x3 with cards with 1000-ish ATP. 1400x3 or something sounds a bit unbalanced.

[Iduno]

lol I remember hearing that was actualy how bows worked as a rumour once

[unicorn]

It would be nice to make Newmans excell in GT, AF, PT, and AT (cards).

But it really forces CASTs to stray away from GT, AF, and AT.

I do think they need to make the classes more racially balanced though... Newmans should be the worst melee race, but they should have *some* form of damage in melee types. CASTs and Beasts should be the worst techers, but should have some sort of advantage over Newman and Humans in teching types (SUV and Nanoblast = lol in techer).

I doubt we'll see anything like this though....

Would be cool if they added something like this in a future expansion though.

[Iduno]

It would be nice to make Newmans excell in GT, AF, PT, and AT (cards).

But it really forces CASTs to stray away from GT, AF, and AT.

I do think they need to make the classes more racially balanced though... Newmans should be the worst melee race, but they should have *some* form of damage in melee types. CASTs and Beasts should be the worst techers, but should have some sort of advantage over Newman and Humans in teching types.

I doubt we'll see anything like this though....

Would be cool if they added something like this in a future expansion though.

As a (former) newman wartecher, my melee did do pretty reasonable damage lol so I think they do have some skill in melee

Also with cast/beast high HP and low TP regrant should work really well for them (less damage but that means less to yourself as well so you can juggle those sendilions ect. for longer with less risk of suicide)

[Yusaku_Kudou]

And as a current newman fF, I wouldn't say I have "less than 'some' form of damage." My gravity break hits over 6200, Jabroga 5500+, and Redda 8000+. I kind of think my 1498 base ATP is a bit too generous, really. It's not challenging anymore.

[BIGGIEstyle]

And in terms in Ronin's idea...

...No!

Bows are the one weapon that I love using as PT and I enjoy there power at an extremly long range. Those would hurt me hard if they were based of TP(Since the TP calcualtion would probably suck and a CAST natural TP sucks ass anyway) it would make them totally unuse-able even if PT had a decent TP mod. Bows are the one thing I have pride in hitting stuff really hard with and to give that up would a waste of time in leveling bows. I would ony accept this if PTs got Rifles and Double Sabers (Just for the simple fact we would have every two-handed weapon in the game except for Rods for obvious reasons).
This.

I'd love to give Biggie a rifle and send him on his way but for some retarded reason PT can use grenade launchers, laser cannons, shotguns, but NOT rifles.

[MaximusLight]

lol
Great minds think a like, but for balance sake it makes sense to keep them as atp based.

Although, I think that it would be worth a look to have a PA that had the same effect.

[ChaoStrike777]

Now, see, if we had people like you Ronin working at SEGAC coming up with ideas like this, then I think PSU would probably be in a prosperous age of membership. We need people like you to go take over SEGAC so that our game that we are paying for becomes good.

[gryphonvii]

SEGAc makes awesome rpg's, or so we're told.
Anyways, wasn't there a rifle in PSO that used tp instead of ATP, can't remember a name.

[Rayokarna]

SEGAc makes awesome rpg's, or so we're told.
Anyways, wasn't there a rifle in PSO that used tp instead of ATP, can't remember a name.

Holy Ray. It wasn't based of TP, but the requirement to use it was. The same with the Esylion(sp?)

[Magus_84]

They could just make it contingent on which score is higher. If TP's higher, Cards and Bows run off of TP. If ATP's higher, they run off of ATP. Or some sort of combination and division of the two scores. Like...(ATP + TP/2), or something.

Though really. Casts and Beasts are overwhelming at all the other jobs. Human/Newmen still do well, but a FF (to use the above example) of any other race would be better at it.

May as well through Humans and Newmen a bone somewhere.

[DISCO]

If you made them both TP based it would make fortetechers horrendously broken. Both male and female newmans have crazy TP to begin with, this is alright because while they nuke many creatures, other creatures are magic resistant. Giving them two no-magical weapons to use against those monsters while taking advantage of that TP would be very unbalanced.

Also it just doesn't make much sense to base either of those weapons of TP. Bows shoot arrows and the description of the kikami is,"A homing throwing blade", nothing magical there.

[Kion]

I thought bows ignored enemy defense and cards had unreasonably high elemental percents?

[Schubalts]

I thought bows ignored enemy defense and cards had unreasonably high elemental percents?

This is correct.

[Kion]

so isn't that already an attempt at balancing to make up for low newman atp?

[Vent]

so isn't that already an attempt at balancing to make up for low newman atp?

Yes. I think the balance is more than enough.

[MSAksion]

Bows already are super strong - they ignore defense of a target putting the longbow on par with a similar Rifle. And it takes physical ATP strength to pull the invisible bowstring back.

Cards - i can see them being controlled by TP seeing as how the user controls the homing function of the blades with his mind.

[amtalx]

@OP: No. This game is actually starting to reach a decent balance betweent he classes. No need to go and screw it up. ...unless they nerf the muiltplier on Cards, which would kinda defeat the purpose of changing the focus from ATP to TP anyway.


Bows already are super strong - they ignore defense of a target putting the longbow on par with a similar Rifle. And it takes physical ATP strength to pull the invisible bowstring back.

Bows are not on par with Rifles. They do about the same damage per shot, but Rifles fire almost 50% faster.

[Vent]

Bows are a very practical choice to give FTs some ranged abilities while keeping their damage with other ATP based weapons down.

Also, while thinking about this, with masterclasses coming up, I bet most people will go for them. The problem is only gunmaster can use ranged weapons. So when fighting a flying boss, you're screwed if you don't have one.

[furrypaws]

I was thinking something similar, only in regards to ATA and ranged weapons instead of ATP.

I mean, what makes more sense. The fact that you do more damage because you can aim a gun well at a monster or because you can pull the trigger of a gun harder (o_O?).

I've heard that with Fortegunner's extreme ATA, beasts can actually hit about as often as a human or cast, meaning because ATP is the main factor in range damage, Beasts are the winner. Note I haven't tested this, so I'm not absolutely sure about it.

[Schubalts]

I was thinking something similar, only in regards to ATA and ranged weapons instead of ATP.

I mean, what makes more sense. The fact that you do more damage because you can aim a gun well at a monster or because you can pull the trigger of a gun harder (o_O?).

I've heard that with Fortegunner's extreme ATA, beasts can actually hit about as often as a human or cast, meaning because ATP is the main factor in range damage, Beasts are the winner. Note I haven't tested this, so I'm not absolutely sure about it.

There is a point where ATA begins to have a lower return on investment. A certain amount is needed to hit the strongest monster in the highest mission you can run consistently, more than that is just extra.

[Weeaboolits]

ATA would make more sense than ATP on most ranged weapons really, not necessarily from a balance standpoint, but a logical one, why the hell would my physical strength affect how hard a bullet hits? I'm not throwing it at them.

[Tiyr]

ATA would make more sense than ATP on most ranged weapons really, not necessarily from a balance standpoint, but a logical one, why the hell would my physical strength affect how hard a bullet hits? I'm not throwing it at them.

Wait, we're NOT supposed to just throw the bullets at them?

...dammit.

[Weeaboolits]

Wait, we're NOT supposed to just throw the bullets at them?

...dammit.

That reminds me of this scene:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qMAcM9_02qA

At any rate, looking at some of these replies, I suppose this wouldn't be the best solution, looking at just how high FT TP is, I don't normally play that class, so I tend to forget.

If it were to go, they'd probably have to remove the dfp ignore for starters, or make it work on MST like techs do, but due to being classed as a bullet, it'd still be viable on tech resistant monsters.

[Shou]

But then there would be absolutly NO reason to be anything other than a newman as a fortetecher :(

Cards and Bows should keep using ATP